Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

jack51pine

The steering wheel doesn't lock in position when in park and the key is removed, at least mine doesn't and the dealer said it is supposed to be that way. 8500 miles and going strong.

jwinky

I had a near miss this morning, and I want some input. After traveling on the highway for a while, I needed to brake as traffic was slowing to a halt. When I hit the brakes, it felt as if I had very little braking power. Was able to avoid by switching lanes and as I pressed the brake pedal, I seemed to get more braking power back with each push (pedal got stiffer). Traffic broke free, but the same thing happened when I reached downtown.

I am going to check my fluid level at lunch and then call my dealer, but does anyone have any insight? I only 1200 mi, and this concerns me a little. Up to this point, I have not experienced it and braking has been excellent.

JAW

tblazed

Just went out and checked my TB steering. It doesn't lock either. It DOES on my two older Chevys. I guess "they" decided that was not such a good idea after all.

tblazed

I asked the question about the Delco eye not being green on my 5 month old TB Delco battery. Of course the dealer when I called said it would take overnight to test everything out. So I have done some research. That eye (actually a hydrometer) indicates the specific gravity of the electrolyte solution. According to the following chart my battery specific gravity should be at a fully charged state.

Voltage -- Specific Gravity -- State of Charge
------------------------------------------------------------
12.66......... 1.265........ 100%
12.62......... 1.257........ 95%
12.58......... 1.249........ 90%

I measure with my DVM 12.85 Volts on that battery today. That should indicate a fully charged battery, so I can't help but wonder what the heck is going on. I think I have a failing or defective battery. The vehicle voltage seems correct from what I have read. Any knowledgable people out there that can explain this to me? THANKS Ed tblazed@ev1.net

gmdrone

I have yet to see an HVAC module that didn't mount through the dash. I have torn down an awful lot of our competitor's vehicles in my time here. The basic design is the same, but as was indicated, it is the execution that makes the difference. Unfortunately, I can't control the individual who wields the sealer brush, I must expect him/her to do their job right, and not be hurrying their job to be the first one out of the parking lot, etc. We try very hard, and institute all sorts of checks and balances to avoid these problems, but they do come up, after all, these are HUMANS doing these operations. Haven't you ever had a day where you didn't put 100% into your job? Just wondering! (haha) I'd be lying if I said I was always 100% on the top of my game. I was merely trying to point out a potential cause for a problem that an owner was experiencing, not really giving you ammo to slam the company that I work for!!

Regards

Mark

gmdrone

I have seen the condition you describe many times. Believe it or not, sometimes the black eye is caused by the little plastic float getting stuck!! You might want to try taking out the battery and shaking it GENTLY, or tipping it side to side. If you battery is more than a year old though, I would just take it back to the dealer and demand that they replace it under warranty, it's covered for the first 3 years, so they should take care of it no charge. (Don't tell them that you tried to unstick it though, or they'll give you you know what for "abusing" it.! Hope that helps!!

Regards,

Mark

paisan

Of the Big 3 I like the General best. Since Humans are putting it together extra care might have been taken to place something that *could* drip to not drip onto a critical item like the 4wd control unit. I've never heard of any other manufacturer having the 4wd control switch rust out, let alone rust out due to the HVAC piping leaking onto it.

-mike

paisan

If you can't handle your company being SLAMMED, then perhaps you should stay off the internet. Everyone's company gets slammed on the internet, it's the nature of the beast

-mike

cm1949

I've got around 8,000 miles on my 2002 Trailblazer. Last month I noticed that when I started off slowly the car wouldn't shift into 1st and it sounded like it was in neutral and made a "roaring" sound. Finally one day I was turning into my office and all the lights went on and it died. Thank God I wasn't on a major highway at the time. It finally started and I got it to the office. The dealer had it towed in and they said a piece of plastic had broken in the throttle. When I got the car back it was still doing that "roaring" thing so I took it back. This time they found a loose wire by the back wheel. Said that should fix my problem. Well, it hasn't. It's still "roaring" when I'm going under 30 mph. Has anyone else had this problem and what the heck is the answer to it? The car repair guy said until the engine light comes on, which marks the computer, he doesn't know what to do (he drove it a few days and it never made that noice for him).

dielectric7bb

Your DVM probably won't give you a super accurate reading off of the battery. You really need to measure the battery while it's under load. If you aren't having any trouble starting, then the battery is probably still good. I used to design and build electric cars. Usually we would measure 13.5 volts off of the 12 volt batteries, but that was right after we charged them.

tblazed

Thanks gmdrone for clarifying the warranty on the original battery. I am a little concerned though about disconnecting it and possibly loosing some programming like the remote entry and radio security. We'll see what happens. I might just loosen it and rock it back and forth with it still connected to prevent any self-induced problems. I can tap on the eye with my finger and the green float will come up and make itself appear for a second, then it falls back so it probably isn't sticking. (You describing dissecting other mfg's vehicles in another reply reminds me of when I worked for Pioneer and later Panasonic- we would go out and buy other brands of product, microwave ovens for example, and take 'em apart to see what the other guys were doing.)

dielectric7bb , if I check it right after driving it will measure 13.6 or so, overnight it settles down to about 12.7 V. Everything works perfectly and seems to meet spec - except that darn eye!

dielectric7bb

Maybe drive over a bumpy road. Wouldn't that do the same thing, and you don't have to disconnect the battery or try to shake 50 pounds worth of lead :-)

tblazed

Yes dielectric7bb you'd think just normal driving would give the batt enough shock and vibration to keep things stirred up and not sticking. (not that I couldn't use the exercize!)

dshepherd3

The black eye on the battery indicates low charge state, this cannot be checked with a volt meter, you need a load test done after the battery is indepently charged from the vehicle. If the battery cannot be bought up to charge it should be replaced, but in itself, the black charge indicator only indicates "state of charge"

tblazed

From what I have researched the eye is a simple hydrometer that indicates the specific gravity of the electrolyte in the battery. The specific gravity is supposedly directly related to the charge state and should be "1.265" with a terminal voltage of 12.66 Volts, as measured across the + and - terminals. That specific gravity should make the green ball float in the hydrometer, but something is wrong. The TB starts right up with no hesitation whatsoever, has the right terminal voltage and puts out the amps while cranking, even with all the lights on. There is no other indication of a bad battery or a charging problem with the vehicle. Voltage on the instrument cluster meter says 14.1 or so Volts while the engine is running. Weird.

If it wasn't in warranty I'd just go buy me another Optima spiral-cell battery like the one I have in my old S-10. Only problem with that is the terminal holes in that fancy vented battery enclosure on the TB don't match up with the terminals on the Optima battery! It's always something....

dielectric7bb

is what the alternator charges the battery at. If the battery was charged at 12 volts, it would never get to full charge :-)

tblazed

OK dielectric7bb, you got me curious enough to go out there just now and check it. Before I started the engine the batt terminal Voltage was 12.8. Then I started the engine and at idle the Volts measured across the batt terminals was 14.7. That ought to be enough to get it up to full charged state. Like I said.. weird. I have about 2 1/2 years left on the warranty so maybe it will get replaced before then. I'd just like to know what's going on with this battery. As I also said before, everything else seems to be working fine, so I will just drive it and keep an eye on the "eye" and the 1st even slightest hesitation to crank the engine, that battery will get replaced. Thanks for the ideas and input!

ficuss

tblazed: take your car to a shop that has a carbon pile battery tester. It is the oldest battery under load test you can do, but the most telling. If your battery voltage remains above 9.5 to 10 volts while delivering 300 amps, it is charged and will provide more than sufficient starting power. If the voltage drops quickly below 9 volts and the amps will not rise above 150 amps, the battery may have one or more bad cells, or is not fully charged.

Frank

medolark

I'm a little suprised that anyone thinks a car manufacturer should design so that leaks don't drip on certain wires or connectors. I think it would be next to impossible to insure every possible leak will drip somewhere that causes no problem. It is clear the manufacturer should make damn sure that no leaks occur (and obviously some will in spite of that) but to ask him to design to make sure that after the thing fails the result is benign is, I think, going too far.

I used to work in the Nuclear Power industry and I know what is involved in failure modes and effects analyses and I can tell you it would get very expensive to do that kind of analysis on a car design.

drobin59

I have an early build TB LTZ. What's going on about a fuel filter recall.

Also, what is an ECAS muffler?

Thanks

gam2

Paisan: It's one thing when Triplet owners slam their vehicles (it's a matter of frustration), but it's a little unfair when someone who doesn't own one(you're a Trooper owner, right?) slams them. gmdrone is trying to help owners with their problems and I sure hope he never stops. Who can blame him for defending the company he works for, even if they do make some mistakes? At least someone at GM cares!

GAM2

dshepherd3

Triplets produced approximately between Sept and November of 01 have to have the retaining clips on the fuel filter connections replaced, you should get a recall notice about now if you are affected by this. I believe the ecas muffler is a silencing device on the compressor for the Envoy air ride system.

paisan

That he is doing what he's doing. Sorry but it's just ridiculous that such a thing should happen, I mean c'mon don't you think it's ridiculous that the 4wd engages like that? It is freekin dangerous! Also being an Isuzu enthusiast I believe we have every right to slam/praise the triplets since we are all part of the GM family no? The Ascendor is the same vehicle.

I dunno, just was funny to see such poor workmanship and I guess I get frustrated with it every once in a while especially cause I want better for the General.

-mike

scottc454

The main point is that if everything was installed correctly, there would be no problem.
Surely you have some idea as to the number of gaskets, hoses, tubes, etc. that are present on a modern engine.

You could go into model of car today and misinstall any one of these things and have just as many problems. I don't see why you should design a switch that should take into account something else being installed incorrectly.

For example, if you install a radiator hose and don't tighten the clamp enough, coolant's going to leak out and your engine is going to overheat. It ain't any more complex than that. This is an installation error, not a design problem.

mkaye

One would hope, that if this is a common problem, that the switch would be re-designed; perhaps made waterproof or otherwise sealed or covered. Even if it wasn't a common problem when the vehicle was new, likely after a few years the 'bubblegum' sealant may dry and leak anyway.

As an aside point, overdesigning (making the switch waterproof to protect from condensation) may be most important to protect against potential failure and liability. I had a Jeep with antilock brakes. There was a relay in the engine compartment that wasn't sealed to the elements. It corroded from normal moisture (within 3 years) in the engine compartment (rain spray, washing the OUTSIDE of the car) causing sudden failure and loss of brake function. The relay energized the ABS pump which (due to poor design) actually worked the brakes. Due to the design, Chrysler has to do repairs on this particular ABS system for life at no charge to the owner (not because of the relay alone, of course).
This is the recall from the NHTSA site:

Year: 1989 Make: JEEP Model: CHEROKEE Recall Date: 01/13/1997
Type of Report: Vehicle
Potential Number of Units Affected: 52000
Manufactured: 07/1988 - 06/1991
Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM (ABS).
Consequence Summary:
IF THIS OCCURS, THE ABS FUNCTION WOULD BE LOSE AND REDUCED POWER ASSIST WOULD BE EXPERIENCED DURING VEHICLE BRAKING. THE INSTRUMENT PANEL WARNING LIGHTS WILL SIGNAL SYSTEM IMPAIRMENT AND THE BASE MANUAL BRAKES WILL REMAIN FUNCTIONAL.
Corrective Summary:
DEALERS WILL TEST THE VEHICLE'S ABS AND REPAIR AS NECESSARY. THE WARRANTY ON ALL ABS COMPONENTS WILL BE EXTENDED TO 10 YEARS OR 100,000 MILES (EXCEPT FOR THE BRAKE ACTUATOR PISTON ASSEMBLY AND THE PUMP-MOTOR ASSEMBLY WHICH WILL HAVE A LIFETIME COVERAGE). OWNERS WILL BE REIMBURSED FOR PREVIOUS ABS COMPONENT REPAIR COSTS.

bruser1

Slam the company to your hearts content, but in this case making it personal crosses the line. GMDRONE brings a perspective we can all benefit from. His/Her posts are technically exceptional. I for one believe GMDRONE is an asset to this board and hope he/she will continue to assist us by posting useful information. This expression is based on experience from other boards. When personal attacks start to heat up the threads quality begins to decline and members leave. I don't think it's asking too much to employ civility in our post. Do you?
Bruce
I'll step off the soap box now.

baredogg

Delco read Delphi uses a simple ball hydrometer on all of its batteries and these are simply pressed into case top it is possible that the ball track is deformed or simply ball is sticking,
A simple plant check is to give the top of the eve area a swat with a rubber mallet (believe me this is actually done) to see if ball rises it may but also due to different battery requirements I believe there are approx. six eyes and if the synton feed bowl had some left from previous run it may have the wrong eye and this will also leave black condition. Your static and charge rates are right on the money so go get dealer to load test and verify/replace as soon as possible as I don't believe btob covers the battery
jp

patxlb

I'm looking for a rear air deflector for my Envoy. Has anyone added one to their vehicle & if so, what one?

Thanks.

iexplore2000

I had problems with my battery going dead several times on my Envoy. Luckily the servicing dealership took my word on it and replaced the battery with a new one. Thus far, no problems with dead batteries anymore!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

paisan

For example, if you install a radiator hose and don't tighten the clamp enough, coolant's going to leak out and your engine is going to overheat. It ain't any more complex than that. This is an installation error, not a design problem.

If your engine overheats you won't spin out of control. If your engine locks into 4wd @ 80mph on the dry interstate you are more likely to loose control of the vehicle. My point is if it's a safety item it should be protected by design to prevent problems. And "if it happens a lot and we get sued, we'll change it next year" I know every company does the "acceptable losses" scenarios but when safety is concerned it shouldn't come into the picture.

This expression is based on experience from other boards. When personal attacks start to heat up the threads quality begins to decline and members leave. I don't think it's asking too much to employ civility in our post. Do you? Never got personal with GM Drone, he got personal with me. I didn't ditch on him at all, ditched on the company in general.

-mike

lurker01

I really thought that right hand side mirror autodimmed. I guess it was just the eternal gloom of Seattle winters. I tried out the trick to turn off the dimming feature this evening and everything worked as expected.

And now for a cheer...
I LOVE my Envoy. I really think it is the best SUV in it's size range. Better than the X5 and the MDX. Today I rode in my friend's brand new Mercury Mountaineer. I had to keep my comments to myself. This is the top midsize SUV Ford makes and it just seemed cheap to me. The interior trim and the switchgear did not give a luxury feel at all. And the seats cannot compare to my SLT leather. So what if it has a 3rd row of seats, I looked and there is zero storage behind them. The only cool feature he had was a backup sensor. Also, the entry/exit for the rear doors was better. Otherwise, no comparison.
I tried to get him to look at and Envoy XL, but his wife was stuck on the Ford. Oh well...

pauleul

Since Paisan spends so much time on this board knocking the triplets (and GM) it must be out of envy. He doesn't own one and try as he might, I don't think he will be able to convince anyone (on this board) that a 2000 Isuzu Trooper LS is comparable. I'm sure he will say what he has is a much better product but I doubt he will find many here that will agree. To each his own. Not sure what point he is trying to make on this board though.

At any rate, I agree with the others who have expressed their support for GMDRONE. Stick with us and don't let one sour apple spoil the barrel.

tidester

I always wonder what it means when one begins to talk about another in the third person. Frankly, I think we can do without the sniping.

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

tblazer503

Hey all, i gots an interesting question... Whats the Reduced Engine Power light on the dash for? from what i could gather, it comes on "when the electronic throttle malfunctions" uh would you have any power if it malfunctioned? =P im wondering if possibly could be a "northstar" overheat (hoping that would be cool) but probably not...

paisan

Nah, I'm an auto enthusiast. I frequent not only this board but most of the other SUV boards. In case you haven't noticed I have praised the Envoy/TB/etc as great vehicles for what they were designed for and what 95% of the customers out there want. Great as lease vehicles and for inclement weather and trips to the soccer field, dirt road mall and home depot. And that is exactly what the consumer wants. I could have bought one in place of my Trooper easily, but it wouldn't have fit *MY* needs.

-mike

sbindley

I'm putting one on Project Envoy for Truckin's SUV Magazine. As with a lot of products on this vehicle, the part is not yet available to the general public, but will be soon. The company is California Dream and their website shows rear spoilers for various vehicles -- http://www.california-dream.com/ They said the Envoy piece will be available in four to six weeks.

robert115

Unfortunately, I have first had experience with this light on the dashboard.

It is the light that illuminated when the engine died in my nine month old Trailblazer.

gmdrone

Sorry if I sounded hurt, I'm not. I have endured many jibes over the years from all sorts of customers/owners/dealers/friends/neighbors etc. over the quality and design of the vehicles that we produce. I have no problem with anyone who doesn't like the products we build, they are most certainly free to purchase whatever they want to. I personally own a couple of early 80' Benz, a 300SDL and a 430SEL, which I wouldn't give up for love or beacoup bucks. These cars are awesome, and in my humble opinion, they are far superior to anything that MB, Lexus, Jaguar, BMW, etc. could produce. I also own a 2002 STS. and a 2001 DTS, both fine rides for motoring around town in this shell-shocked bombed out freeway system around Detroit. My daily drive right now is (ready for this) a 2002 Chevy Astro Van! It is loaded to the gills with all the bells and whistles, even has soft leather seats!! Of course I ain't paying for it, the Company provides it for me to use, and I enjoy the height advantage and the size to intimidate all of the smaller vehicles out there. I turned in a TB LTZ with 24,000 miles on it a couple of months ago, and found it to be absolutely flawless, even when I inadvertently ran over a semi's fifth wheel crank in the early morning hours of darkness one snowy morning last winter. It barely made any noise, while I spat it into the radiator of the semi behind me. I don't take Paisan's comments personally, he is as entitled to his opinion [non-permissible content removed] am I and all others on this board. I appreciate the constructive criticism that I hear here, and I try to relay some of the more useful, as well as the useless, information back to my fellow engineers, in the hopes that they will be able to use the information wisely. Please, feel free to slam away if you are so inclined, it is something you learn to live with, especially when there are so many brain washed consumers that believe what they read in Consumer's Reports, as though the Good Lord delivered it from the mountian with Moses (haha) couldn't resist!!!:) Seriously, the vast majority of the posts that I read on Edmunds are intelligent questions and comments from real people who use their vehicle in real world situations. Believe me, I learn alot from youse!!!

Regards,

Mark

paisan

especially when there are so many brain washed consumers that believe what they read in Consumer's Reports, as though the Good Lord delivered it from the mountian with Moses (haha) couldn't resist!!!:) you are preaching to the choir on that one

Question for yah GM, does GM know you are on here and/or do they sanction it or is it just in your spare time/on your own? The subie guys have an inside guru like yourself and I think it has helped them sell a ton of subies just cause the customers feel more connected to the company. Hopefully this can help youse sell some more and improve them. I think there were 8 different items they put into the new forester that were directly related to the efforts of the subie owners on Edmunds input.

-mike

dshepherd3

GM parts makes a decent deflector, with thorough instructions, and it does help keep the rr glass clearer, about 120 list.

triumphbobk

Well it seems that our Bravada's encoder motor has forgotten its memory again. The fix actually worked for about a week and then gradually started to fail. I returned it to the dealer, they agreed that the problem is back, and placed an encoder motor on order. The only problem is that there's no stock and it's on back order.

The dealer tells me to drive it until the part comes in. Will driving it in this condition cause additional problems with the transfer case, or anything else in the front end?

Gmdrone,

The dealer says the motor is out of GM stock, but GMPartsDirect shows it in stock. What is GM's policy about buying parts from them? I'd hate to have to wait too long for a replacement part while potentially causing more damage to the transfer case. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Bob K

john9907

I too am a 2002 Bravada owner and have had many of the same problem that people are reporting.However I have had some of the updates done. Such as the reargate gasket, I have new mirror actuators on order and the vehicle goes in on monday for the fix, I hope it works. They are also going to fix the noise coming from the roof rack. The otherday I stopped in at my dealership and showed them the new binding problem that was happening with the four wheel drive. They reflashed the computer, but this did not solve the problem. The told me something was probably wrong with the encoder motor and would have to troubleshoot it further. Has any one else had this fix done yet.

Please let me know.

John

bobed2121

I have seen post about roof rack noise. Are we talking wind noise, vibration or what? How are the dealers fixing what ever it is?

rj123456

Doesn't say anything about the Envoy or the Bravada...

From Yahoo! and the 6/5/02 WSJ:

Dealers say GM has added $750 consumer bonus cash on the popular new Trailblazer sport-utility vehicle and $750 on the predecessor model, the Blazer. GM added $500 on the Silverado and Avalanche pick-up, the Tahoe and Suburban SUVs and the Venture and Astro minivans. The program runs through July 1 , dealers say.

tblazed

There was some discussion a while back about wind noise from the luggage carrier (roof rack) cross rails, and the fix was to put the rear one all the way back and the front one in line with the rear door windows. Never realy noticed any noise from mine regardless of position and since then I took my cross rails off since I don't use them. Then there's the problem with the front of the carrier side rails bowing up and making a gap between the body. Adding a specific washer as per some bulletin beneath the torx screw fasteners that hold on the carrier side rails supposedly fixes that.

dshepherd3

Also check the arrows on the side supports for the crossbars, many of these are backward and the cross bars must be removed and reversed, this might contribute to the wind noise.

jr45

Hi all,

I will be getting an 03' Bravada early next year when the lease on my wife's '00 Altima expires. A lot of good posts in this thread, and I'm trying to read most of them. I have one of those GM credit cards and have been racking up "rewards." (I use it my business and typically put over 2k a month on it, he he he). I figure I'll be saving a ton over any comparable import SUVs. Besides, I've always been a GM man, what can I say.

JR

rambro1

Hi folks. I'm a new GMC Envoy owner as of January this year. Right now, the vehicle has less than 5500 miles on it and it runs great. I have experienced some of the "wandering" of the driver's side-view mirror, but I plan on having that fixed this week.

My question deals with, what I describe as, a "knocking" sound that emanates from the inside of the vehicle towards the rear hatch. This knocking sound is intermittent and sometimes gets kinda loud. The kicker here is this: The sound only appears when the vehicle is moved from shade (e.g. garage) to sunlight. Once the vehicle has been in the sun for 30 or so minutes, the knocking sound disappears. It has never made this sound at dusk, evening, or night.

I took the vehicle to the local GM dealer and explained the situation. I then moved the car from the shade to sunlight (it was morning) so the repairman could listen for himself. When he heard the sound, he checked the rear hatch and the lift-gate, but couldn't find anything wrong. He then fed me some line about the plastic inside the rear hatch was "expanding" when the heat from the sunlight hit it. He indicated that there was nothing he could do about it. The expanding plastic theory seemed logical based upon the specific factors I'd mentioned. But then I got to thinking, "Wouldn't every SUV, or at least Envoy, experience the same type of problem?" Or am I just the "lucky" one?

Anyway, if any of you have experienced this same type of problem, I'd sure like hear if, and how, you resolved the problem. Thanks.

ficuss

rambro1: have the dealer install the gasket around and between the plastic license plate holder insert and the steel part of the rear hatch. Others have posted pictures of the installation. This prevents paint chipping and also the popping sound heard when the car is in the sun.

Frank

gam2

I needed a new encoder motor for my Bravada to fix the binding problem. The dealer kept the truck for 15 days until a part came in. The said the binding could damage the drivetrain. I would check to see if the part really is in stock at Parts Direct and then call customer service. If I had found the part was in stock at GM Parts Direct I would have been livid! GM would not expedite the part for 10 working days!

The expanding plastic is the infamous missing gasket on the liscense plate surround. There should be a rubber gasket where the plastic insert meets the tailgate. Look for chipping paint while your there.

GAM2