Subaru Impreza WRX



  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    You'll get no argument from me - most dealers treat their customers very poorly, and rarely pass up the chance to make a killing on a desirable model like the WRX - but that's their business. I certainly don't want to appear to be condoning MSRP as "fair", I just think that's going to be the reality for most people who want one of the earlier cars. I will be happy if the car is as good as it appears to be, and my dealer doesn't try to pull a fast one when I go to close the deal.

    Ramon - agreed. My best friend thinks BMW hung the moon. When my WRX runs away from his 323i, he still won't be convinced. For many folks, nameplates matter, and Subaru has virtually no credibility here in south Texas. Well put - more fun for us :)
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I live in Chas. SC and AWD and four wheel drive is superfluous down here. It rarely snows and when it does, it melts.
    I would think that because of the lower demand for AWD here, buyers may be able to get a better deal.
    We have just one Subaru dealer here that services 550,000 people. I don't even know their name.
    I was up in Conn. and Mass. two years ago and was amazed at the number of subaru dealerships in that
    part of the country.
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    yep, it seems like dealers are offering msrp right now. What is the invoice price by the way? 22k?
  • mustangman1mustangman1 Member Posts: 2
    Hey all,
    I began looking for my first car a couple years ago. I tested the Prelude, Integra, 2.5 RS, Mustang, Forrester, and a 1.8T.

    I fell in love with the 2.5RS the second I saw it, and the drive was simply incredible. The deal was practically done, when my parents decided that it was too small a car. I ended up with a Forrester, and really love, the car, but a part of me still wishes for the 2.5 RS.

    Now that the WRX is being released in North America, I think anyone would have to be nuts not to by this car. We're talking more HP than a BMW 3 series, or a 1.8T or Prelude. It has better torque transfer than all of the above, plus the AWD.

    I am soooo happy that Sube came out with this vehicle... I'm working on my Dad to trade in his car and get one. :) One things for sure, I'm going to every local Sube dealer and test driving it as much as I can!
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    Here in Roseville California (next to Sacramento) ive got 5 dealers within 30 minutes of our house! (1 more about 50 minutes away) and they range from nasty, to "hey look, all the salesman are sitting in their chairs all leisurly like", to "We dont sell many Subaurus so we just put stickers at invoice price on the windshields"...

    BMW dealers are nasty, same with Honda, BECAUSE of that "prestige" thing going on... Harder to pull their legs than even the high pressure Subaru dealer here in Roseville...

    Oh, and Spoiler comes STANDARD on the Yellow sedans.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    a 323i is rather slow. even a 2.5rs will give it a run fo rit's money if not beat it. after all 323i have what? 170hp and weighs 300lbs more than an RS.
    i htink the latest 330i/Ci are pretty quick. Has some finicky clutch tho. Rated at 6.3seconds 0-60. But still for outright performance, the WRX will have it for lunch. =) Shh.... let's keep this for ourselves.
  • urapnisurapnis Member Posts: 2
    I'm new to this msg board but I have been reading it with great interes..

    I'm about to get a 2001 2.5 RS. I test drove it and fell in love with it. I like the styling, performance (for the price), and it's just fun as hell to drive..

    But I am in a quandry..My lips are salivating as I read more and more about the WRX. The numbers are just awesome and the price is very resonable.It has S4 numbers for about $10K-$15K less. My wife was actually about to get the S4 last yr but passed on it b/c Audi sales ppl are snobish bastards and got the ACURA 3.2 TL instead. But I digress..

    I'm not sure if I really like the look of the WRX..reminds me of Neon..but the performance..WOW. I know I can do stuff on the RS to boost power but I don't want to void the warranty. I'm not very knowlegable in the area of modifying there things I can to to the RS to boost power and keep the factory warranty?? Is there a good place to get mod parts for Suburus??

    Also, what is a good price for the RS? Right now I'm looking at 3% over invoice (about $500). Is this reasonable??

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
  • ottosottos Member Posts: 80
    I'm close to buying this car. But I was wondering if those pedals can be changed. They are not exactly right for heel-and-toeing (I checked this out at the Detroit auto show). And they aren't as grippy as I like.

    Also, how much more boost can the engine take before it starts to knock? What octane fuel does it use? Does the engine have a knock sensor? If the engine will knock, then is there a colder intercooler available, or an ECU programmer? I was hoping I could get the HP up to around 260 or so. (I imagine foreigners to the US are most likely to know these answers.)

    These are minor things. If I want an awesome car now, I don't see that I have any other choice :)

    I don't think there are any competitors. Nothing else has AWD, handling, and a 14 second 1/4 mile for 24k. This will be a good starting point for road racing (I think).
  • carvoicecarvoice Member Posts: 10
    I talked to my local dealer (Diablo Subaru, Walnut Creek, CA) Friday about the WRX order process. The salesman said they already had 10 orders. However, he seemed concerned that people are placing orders but will not actually purchase. The order must be accompanied by a $500.00 deposit which is fully refundable. Does anyone know how the orders will be fulfilled? What will be the dealer allocation, initially? It also looks like many buyers have already negotiated a price. The impression I got from the dealer is the price will not be set until the car arrives and the deal is done.
  • urapnisurapnis Member Posts: 2
    I'm new to this msg board but I have been reading it with great interes..

    I'm about to get a 2001 2.5 RS. I test drove it and fell in love with it. I like the styling, performance (for the price), and it's just fun as hell to drive..

    But I am in a quandry..My lips are salivating as I read more and more about the WRX. The numbers are just awesome and the price is very resonable.It has S4 numbers for about $10K-$15K less. My wife was actually about to get the S4 last yr but passed on it b/c Audi sales ppl are snobish bastards and got the ACURA 3.2 TL instead. But I digress..

    I'm not sure if I really like the look of the WRX..reminds me of Neon..but the performance..WOW. I know I can do stuff on the RS to boost power but I don't want to void the warranty. I'm not very knowlegable in the area of modifying there things I can to to the RS to boost power and keep the factory warranty?? Is there a good place to get mod parts for Suburus??

    Also, what is a good price for the RS? Right now I'm looking at 3% over invoice (about $500). Is this reasonable??

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Refundable deposits and set prices really aren't compatible. If the deposit is fully refundable, then either party can walk. There are tons of folks with deposits for MSRP on the M3 who are getting the dreaded call..."sorry, but we are raising the price, do you want your money back?"

    I have no idea why a dealer would be filling a waiting list for cars at $400 over invoice. While I hope they do the deal, I doubt they will. Or they'll do a common trick where they'll continue bumping people who will pay more above the skinny deal. When the queue subsides in six-months or a year, or whenever, then the skinny deal will percolate to the top of the list and they'll do it, just they would do it for anyone walking in off the street.

    Personally, I think MSRP is fair for this car and I'm putting a refundable deposit down with the expectation that the car will sold to me for MSRP. But I fully realize that things could change on either my end or the dealer's end by the time the car comes in. Supply and demand - everything reaches its proper level.

    - Mark
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I got the WRX brochure today in the mail and was impressed with the proportions and look of the wagon vs. the sedan. The wagon makes the car look a little bigger and has defined wheel arches (rather than fender flares) that look Audi-ish. All in all, the wagon has a less aggressive look, more professional. Less "boy racer" to my eyes which is good, as I'm basically moving down to this car from the 325i wagon and A4 Avante I had been thinking of.

    I'm also noticing that the car looks, to my eyes, better in the lighter colors - they make the headlights a little less overwhelming.

    All personal preference, but I was having a little trouble warming up to the styling in dark-colored sedan form, but I'm fine with a light colored wagon.

    I'd bet the dealers have this brochure now, so if you're in the market, you should get one.


    - Mark
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I can't tell you how many times I've been jerked around by dealers who claim "their" invoice pricing and "my" invoice pricing aren't even close, so I'd be wary of negotiating a deal based on "x hundred dollars over invoice". The slimy dealers are going to produce some bogus sheet that says their "invoice" price is $24900, or something stupid like that - I've had it happen. MSRP is a fixed point of reference, set by SOA and printed by law on the Monroney sticker. If you can negotiate a deal on an early allocation WRX at or just below MSRP and actually get the car for that number, you're doing good IMHO.
  • hernickhernick Member Posts: 2
    Does anybody know why is the Wagon 500$ cheaper ? I've looked at the specs, and it appears that the wagon is 1.5 inch narrower. Any reason why that would be ? The only other main difference is 80 extra pounds for the Wagon.

    I suppose that the Wagon's performance would be quite near the sedan's.. But that takes us back to the original question - why is it 500$ cheaper ?

    And also, I've heard that the AWD system is different on the manual and the automatic, and that the automatic's AWD is more advanced. That the manual's AWD is almost like a FWD, with a 90/10 FWD/RWD torque bias.. Is that true ?

    I do want a manual Wagon, but will I lose AWD's benefits by going with a manual ? And is there any reason why I shouldn't go with the wagon ?

  • carvoicecarvoice Member Posts: 10
    Markjenn, I think your analysis is right. If the demand is there, dealers will not sell below MSRP. It remains to be seen if they try to sell above MSRP. The allocation of vehicles will make a difference. For example, if my dealer gets ten cars on March 15 to fulfill the orders, and there are only 5 true buyers, the dealer might listen to offers below MSRP.

    I tend to agree that MSRP seems reasonable. I read one early review in which the author "estimated" the cost would be $28,000. However, Subaru has to be carefully price these cars. It seems like most of those commenting that they have ordered the WRX are already Impreza owners. At $25k out the door for the WRX, there is quite a jump in price points from the earlier Impreza's. Granted, the WRX seems like a special car given that it is priced well below competitors from Audi and BMW.

    The former post by Hernick raises an issue. Apparently the front end for the wagon has not been widened 20 mm as the sedan has been to accommodate the front fender flares. Will this make much difference? I have heard detailed descriptions about the differences between the 5 speed's and the automatic's 4wd transfer case but I have not heard of any opinions as to whether the automatic's is superior.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    The manual equipped WRX uses a viscous coupling to lock the center diff (a bevel gear diff) and transfer power to the slipping axle. Torque is split 50/50 front to rear, not 90/10 as hernick mentions. The automatic cars use an electronically-controlled clutch pack (rather than the viscous coupling) acting on a planetary center diff. Torque split is 45/55, front to rear. Subaru refers to this latter system as VTD (Variable Torque Distribution), and it is the same system found in the six cylinder Outback VDC.

    Narrower wagon? I'd guess it has to do with the fact that only the sedan gets the wider front track and fender blisters. As far as why the wagon is cheaper, I asked my dealer the same thing when I left my deposit (for a sedan). He said "the wagon is uglier, and not nearly as popular". For you wagon afficianados, them's fightin' words, I'm sure, but that was his explanation.
  • ottosottos Member Posts: 80
    I think both cars look weird. But hopefully that will turn people off and leave more for us. I should use that argument when i negotiate my price.

    I was looking at another forum where they are comparing the prelude and celica. Kostamojen mentioned the WRX and they didn't see it as a good comparison. They are dumb b/c they said that since the WRX isn't a FWD-VTEC-type car, it's not a competitor. Who would consider FWD a good thing anyway, hehe.

    It seems that many Americans don't know what Subaru is really about. The rest of the world does. In fact, this same car costs ~$31500 in the UK. Looks and status seem more important to Americans too, which Subaru doesn't have. Performance matters more to the rest of the world, and to smart buyers like us (and Edmund's reviewers). And Subaru does have performance.

    I want more sub 6-sec, tail-drifting sedans that are turbocharged (the best way to get more power per unit of gasoline, according to my engine textbook (Heywood). The next best thing will be direct injection).
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I've driven a variety of VTEC engined cars, including the Civic Si and S2000. If you like the "superbike with four wheels" approach to power delivery, well, Honda is your car company. On the other hand, if you prefer some torque, and don't want to drive a car that you have to rev the pee out of, consider more cubic inches - or a well thought out turbo engine. Direct injection diesels pretty much win the torque war, but I'll NEVER own an oil burner. Lots of choices out there, so chances are there is a car for everyone. Ottos is right - I think the U.S. is way behind the curve when it comes to understanding and appreciating what Subaru has created with the WRX. A nation of people who prefer bloated, gas-swilling SUVs won't notice and won't care...
  • ottosottos Member Posts: 80
    Direct injection gasoline engines, or GDI. Kind of interesting, because these engines can run compression ratios only found in diesel engines, like 20:1, which of course means a leap in gas mileage. It's pretty interesting stuff. The engine is a blend of diesel and spark ignition principles, but uses gasoline.
  • bedabibedabi Member Posts: 149
    I can certainly appreciate everyone's skepticism about a dealership honoring it's promise to sell a car for $400 over a still unknown invoice price. But at the same time, I don't see how there's anything to lose by putting myself on a waiting list, with nothing signed and no money down. As an attorney by profession (yes, I'm aware we're likened ethically to car salesmen here), I know what would legally bind me or them by contract, and am aware of negotiation tactics. If that dealership doesn't honor it's promises... oh well, what are you gonna do? All I know is, all of you in this forum will be the first to hear about it!
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I hope Pat's dealership comes through for you. Subaru of America is projecting 10,000 WRXs for America during the first year - that's about 17 cars per dealer if allocated equally, which they probably won't be. SOA has also said they would ramp up production if the demand is there, so who knows? You've got to wonder, though, if a particular dealer says they have firm orders for 20 or more cars - how long will it take them to fill those orders? It is going to be interesting to see how it all unfolds - and if SOA revises the MSRP before the March launch date :-(
  • bedabibedabi Member Posts: 149
    So, whaddya gonna do? Pat said if they can't fulfill the order on the first shipment, then they'll try to on the next, and the next. If they can't fill my order for a silver, manual wagon, at worst I'll be disappointed. Then I'll have to mentally gear up for a fight with local dealerships. I know what that's all about. I bought my present car by going into a Nissan dealership that had advertised a new 1999 Maxima GXE, manual for $14,250. They first tried to point out that I didn't want a manual in the city, the ad was only for manuals, and that the automatic was more. I pointed out that a manual was exactly what I wanted. Then they said fine, took down an order and said they'd call me when they'd located a car. So I harassed them for a week, asking, "Where's my car?!?" They finally caved when I told them I had close friends in the attorney general's office and sold me a car they had in the lot. Brand new, tan (I wanted green), with optional floor mats for an extra $250. The pre-tax total, including manufacturers rebate was about $14,500. It was one hell of a learning experience, though. As soon as I start smelling something afoul, I walk now. And that's one last trick the salesmen always have: even after pushing and scamming you for over an hour, they can always just walk away from the negotiating table.
  • havochavoc Member Posts: 27
    From what y'all are saying, the AWD and Subie name, size, etc. carry a lot more weight up north. (for good reason!) So, I might be able to get a better deal in Texas where I live. I'll be in the market around mid April so hopefully we all can see if the "above invoice" pricing actually holds out. I think $1000-$500 below MSRP would be a great deal for this car and I'm hoping on less demand in the South to help me out.

    I'll test drive other cars and might even look at a used Maxima but this car is REALLY pulling me. I want to testdrive one so hopefully I can find a reputable dealer willing to give testdrives.
  • carvoicecarvoice Member Posts: 10
    Silver Bullet, thanks for the great explanation of the mechanical differences between the two, but what are the performance differences (if any)?
  • mfm1475mfm1475 Member Posts: 1
    I'm interested in hearing from any current owners about the quality and characteristics of the manual trannies in the Subaru cars?

    The Impreza WRX is definately a car that has got my attention.. I've driven a few stick shift cars in the past- namely a Golf and an Integra.. but never owned one, the WRX would be the first.

    Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks..
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    Ive been seeing ALOT of skeptics everytime someone mentions they have a "waiting list WRX" for $500 under MSRP, $1000 under MSRP, $800 over invoice, or especially $450 over invoice. Its like you think its a rarely occuring thing.

    Think again. Its not just 1 or 2 or even 3 dealers doing this, but 3 out of every 4 people whome ive seen order a WRX have it for under MSRP. Some, who dont shop around or check online, have actually paid MSRP.

    Of course, your wondering, why would the dealers sell for anything under MSRP for such a high demand car? Well, first of all, the dealers. Most Subaru dealers are low-volume slow-selling dealers. What happens when your a slow-selling dealer who sells most of their cars close to invoice price and all of a sudden people are pre-ordering cars in-mass? You sell more cars! Who cares if they arent MSRP, your making a bunch more money, and your a dealership that has only 2 or 3 WRX's coming the first few months and your list has 8 people... That means your selling more cars than you were going to get in the first place! (SOA is sending the cars to the places that submit orders) Not to mention, if other people hear about this, you will sell even more cars, and attract more people, and make more money! No need to sell for MSRP or above for these dealers!

    On the other hand, you have dealers like Stevens Creek Subaru in San Jose, or Roseville Subaru in Roseville California, and im sure, many other dealers like this... Mark ups on all their cars, premium locations, high pressure on their salesman to sell cars for the most they can get... Under MSRP? They laugh in your face. Thats ok though, for every dealer like this, youve got 3 or 4 more to check that are dealers of the first type.

    The point is...

    Shop around and anythings possible!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    As a potential buyer of a WRX I think i will wait until the smoke clears before i buy one.
    The last thing i want to do is get into a car that has had thirty or forty "test" drives by people who have put their name on a list, but may not be serious buyers.

    The worst thing you can do to a new car is drive it hard.
    I can just see those hot shoes pulling out of the
    dealer's lot, flooring it and running it up to redline, in a car that is still cold.

    Especially when you consider this car is turbocharged and that it needs all of the free flowing oil it can get. I'll pass for now.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    You bring up a good point. I NEVER buy a new car that has been demo'd - if it has more than a few miles on the odo (normal for a car that gets moved around at the port, put on a transporter, etc.) I just say "no thanks". I made it very clear to my dealer that under no circumstances would I take a car with demo miles on it. He understood completely, and said their policy will be NO WRX DEMOS on the first couple of shipments except for the cars specifically ordered by those persons who left $1K deposits. Essentially, these cars are being considered sold until the deposit-payer has a chance to look at the actual car and make a decision to buy or pass.
  • mbrewer4mbrewer4 Member Posts: 3
    Who else feels that the industry is missing vehicles that compete in this segment? I'm not sure about the WRX, but I want a sedan that looks cool, can really move...and I can't afford $30K. Any competitive models to suggest...or anyone in the same boat?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    mbrewer4, I don't think there's anything on the market that is going to compete with the WRX. I'm with you - $30K isn't going to happen for me, but I'll stretch to the mid 20's for a car that offers the WRX's mix of performance, features, and design (I actually like the way it looks!). Once Joe and Jane Public get wind of what this car can do, I predict it is going to be a runaway best seller. If you can work with its compact size (picture a four-door Civic - with 100 extra HP and AWD!), you'll be one happy driver!
  • duvernoisduvernois Member Posts: 6
    Anyway, I spent a bit of time looking over the WRX sedan and wagon at the auto show. First off, I fit better into the current model than when I drove a UK Impreza a few years back. I'm 6'6" and someone a couple of inches taller would even be able to drive it. The Audi S4 is smaller in the driver department. The BMW is about the same and the Passat is a whole lot larger. Anyway, I think the wagon looks significantly better, as well as being quite a bit more practical. Wondering how much of a handling hit one takes with the wagon?

    The gauge cluster looks quite good in the car, can't imagine the car without it. No boost gauge otherwise? Very weird.

    Another nice item at the Detroit auto show was a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo in full rally go-out. The Mitsu rep was talking cheerfully about bringing the VR-4, the Evo, and FTO to the States. I'm assuming that the guy was describing his dream and not reality. Does anyone know anything about this?
  • srohitsrohit Member Posts: 3
    I have seen people talking about prices as below as $1000 from MSRP so the total price comes down to ( MSRP- $1000) ? Is this a good price to start the process with the dealer ? I guess Destination charges and other mark ups are included in the above mentioned price
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    that there would be much of a hnadling difference. If anything the outgoing Impreza wagons are considered to be better handlers than the outgoing sedan imprezas stock for stock thanks to a better weight distribution. The new WRX is a bit tricky since the sedan has a 20mm wider track and those nice aluminium control arms. However a full test of both models should be done to assess the handling of both cars.
  • solid101solid101 Member Posts: 12
    During the past decade, Subbie is one of the car
    manufacture that is highly welcomed by the insurance institutes, try not to abuse the power of the WRX like some CV owner does, therefore we might get a fair quote, maybe that's why the coupe aren't available for now.
    Consider the situtation of Mitsu, they really should bring over the GDI engine to give themselves a greener image instead of carrying
    Evo. and VR-4 for now, a Legnum will be welcomed, though. After all, I belive the correspondant was
    just try to amuse himself as well as the press,
    and FTO? As good as the car gets, it's 10 years old, and the states got eclipse already, I really
    don't think Mitsu will be that stupid, the overall
    situtation for this company is slightly better than 3 years ago, but not that better, guess it will take some years to rebuild it's name, pitty
    for this Japan NASA.
    Please note the typical looonger break in period for Boxer engine.
    If you really love this car, you'll probably drive safe for the first
    1 to 2 years.
  • mjgplmmjgplm Member Posts: 4
    From the Mobil website:
    Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. Today's engines are built with much tighter tolerances and much improved machining compared to the engines of 10 and 20 years ago. The old concept of "engine break-in" involved two primary elements:
    * Removing any metal flashing (called swarf) or abrasive material left inside the engine.
    * Allowing valves and rings to "seat" properly.

    I always warm my car(1994 Audi 90 CS) before driving(30-60 sec @1800 rpm) and it has been fantastically reliable. I am considering the WRX, but was hoping to buy it back East and drive it home(LA, CA). I certainly won't be redlining it every step of the way, but I still want to have some fun. (Yes, I know all about cooling a turbo) In light of the above advice, directly from Mobil, what do I really have to worry about?
  • scythescythe Member Posts: 4
    I don't care if it looked like a dang Ugo, for that performance I'd still get it. hmmm....maybe not a Ugo, but you get the idea. :) I've been waiting for this since I bought my '99 2.5RS, I'm thinking definite trade-in. I will admit to a little hesitancy, I love my RS. I love it's looks, I love how it drives, and after several hundred dollars worth of speeding tickets I now know that it does in fact get good gas mileage when driven at 65 :) I couldn't think of a better car to be honest, I've never felt uncomfortable in it no matter how long I drove. And up here in VT winter driving has been phenomenal, my RS has driven like a tank. But now the WRX is finally here, I can't have people kickin my subie butt around, so I've got to get that.

    I've actually got a couple questions: 1. How much like the "real" 2 liter WRX engine and turbo is the US version? Is it the same? I mean no variable valve timing tom foolery, I know that much, but I was wondering how compatible the import supe-up parts might be? An easy 300hp WRX makes one begin to drool.

    2. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this or not but does anyone know the actual invoice pricing, not the MSRP?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Re: invoice pricing, I don't think that has leaked out yet, but figure something close to the 8% profit margin SOA has for the current 2.5RS and you probably are in the ballpark. Fearless prediction: only the early cars are going to be offered at the $23995.00 MSRP being touted now. If you wait too long, my guess is SOA is going to "adjust" the MSRP upward in quick increments, and/or tinker with the equipment list in some way. Remember what happened when the Lexus LS400 arrived? Like the WRX, it was a "category buster" - the Lexus offered Benz quality, features and performance for about half the price. Demand went through the roof, and prices soon followed. By necessity, I'm going to have to buy my WRX before this scenario plays out - if they jack the price closer to $30K (even if it includes more goodies), I'm going to be priced out.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    With the WRX, Subie dealers are going to find themselves meeting customers like me - people vaguely aware of Subarus, but who've never set foot in a Subie dealership before because there was nothing there to interest them. WRX customers aren't cross-shopping Camrys and Accords - some are cross-shopping Audi and BMW. When I left my deposit, there was a guy leaving who had just done the same thing - and he left in an Audi S4! I spoke to him briefly, and he said he was going to sell his 9 month old S4, buy a WRX, and put $10K or so back into his kid's college fund. Subie dealers are going to be meeting more folks like this, and are going to price the cars accordingly. I'm old enough to remember what happened when sleepy little Datsun dealers were given the 240Z to sell, and Mazda dealers suddenly found themselves with the first RX-7 -- it was Gouge City for most buyers.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Are synthetics really worth it? I have heard that, to save costs some of the new synthetics
    don't really contain any synthetic binders at all.
    I have heard that red line oil is one of the few real synthetic based oils.
    Is this true?
  • littleredwagonlittleredwagon Member Posts: 5
    Synthetic oil, regular maintenance (done properly) and the correct driving habits will keep a turbocharged car running as long as a non-turbo car. Most turbo owners in the US are clueless about how to care for any car, let alone a turbo, which is why they have problems and the cars have a bad reputation. Nearly every large semi truck in the world is turbocharged, and if it was costing them money, they would get the power some other way.

    Synthetic oil: The bottom line is that turbos run hotter than the flames of hell. Or close to it anyway. Remember that the turbine in the turbo is being spun by exhaust gases coming right out of the combustion chamber. Hot, hot hot. The turbo spins at 100,000 rpm or more, so that bearing has to be well lubricated, or it burns up in no time. Regular oil burns onto the bearing at lower temperatures than synthetic. Once the bearing has had oil burned onto it a few times, it starts to wear rapidly. Synthetic can handle higher temperatures, and can handle them for longer periods than non-synthetic. Bottom line: Full synthetic oil every 3000 miles. WHAT? At $4.00 a quart? Yes. Why are you paying $25k for a car and complaining about the cost of oil changes?

    Proper maintenance: Now, a little turbo secret. When you change the oil, the oil drains out of the turbo. When you start it back up, the turbo spins immediately. No oil pressure for a few seconds. Not good. Here is what you do. After you've filled the crankcase. DISCONNECT the ignition. Now crank the starter until the oil light goes out. Now RECONNECT the ignition, and start the car. Let it idle absolutely quietly, no gas, for one minute. You've now changed the oil without causing stress to your turbo. I don't think the goofballs at Grease Monkey are going to do this for you, so change your own oil. I don't know how to disconnect the ignition on a WRX yet, maybe some European owners can help us? On my 323GTX there was a connector going into the ignition control that was easy to disconnect.

    Proper driving habits: LET IT WARM UP. I see idiots all the time (mostly teenagers in Eclipses) jumping into their cold cars, revving the things up, and pulling onto the highway at full throttle. Duh. If it is cold, start the car, and let it idle for at least 60 seconds. Do not touch the gas. When you get to where you are going, again, let it idle for at least 60 seconds. Every time. EVERY TIME. Longer than 60 seconds if you have been on the highway. Get a 'turbo timer' if you can't remember or are impatient.

    This version of the WRX is only the beginning. When people figure out what they are, and Subaru bumps the power a little, and offers STi parts, these will be very popular.
  • ottosottos Member Posts: 80
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    A very good post - except I don't think cranking an OBD II equipped car with the ignition disconnected is a good idea. If fuel is still being injected during the cranking procedure you describe, you run the risk of getting raw gas into the catalysts and causing damage, or at least triggering the "check engine" light and setting a fault code in the OBD computer. Most cars specifically warn you NOT to disconnect the ignition and then crank the car. If you've been running Mobil 1 or Redline oil, and do a gentle start-up after an oil and filter change, the turbo should be okay. Some turbos have an anti-drainback valve incorporated into their design to minimize the possibility of dry bearing damage, as well.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    do you idle for 60minutes in a gas station? I doubt the ppl would be happy that u're hogging the pump while idling by.
  • bedabibedabi Member Posts: 149
    I've just modified my order for a silver WRX wagon to a sedan. After taking a closer look at all the other wagons of similar dimensions (A-4, 323, Impreza Sport Wagons)around my neighborhood, I just can't bear to picture myself driving a wagon! At 32 years old with no kids, I'm not ready to trade in style for utility.

    The new issue of the British magazine Car has some great pictures of the WRX in action on windy mountain side roads in France while taking part in a comparison test with the M-3, Corvette Z06, and Renault Clio V6. The photos give you a much better idea of what the sedan looks like on the road, since the shots aren't so close up. It looks a lot sleeker, and the fender flares give it a nice chiseled appearance.

    The testers rated the car very favorably. Here are a few quotes:

    "In all fairness, I suspect anyone catching sight of the Impreza flashing through the Lozere might have accused its pilots of recklessness, for when the going gets clear it certainly gets a move on. But the Scooby calls two key defence witnesses. First it vividly recounts just where the safety margins lie. Second, its handling is so brilliant, it's vanishingly unlikely you'll get it accidentally out of shape. And all without electronic intervention."

    "There's all the traction you could wish for in a hairpin, but, when you topple down off boost, none of the urge to exploit it. You wait for the blower to spool up... time stands still."

    In conclusion: "It is your best automotive mate, the Subaru, backing you up, making you feel better about yourself. It's by your side in the good times; it helps you out through the humdrum. By contrast, the Corvette is vastly more extrovert, and we Brits can't ignore the small matter of an inconveniently sited steering wheel. But it's a bargain like the Impreza, and despite its intensely different technical layout it shares the same accessible cheerines. The M3 is a wholly different character. When it's really doing its stuff, you're witness to a remarkable experience, but with that goes an aching frustration as you can't quite become a part of it. In the Clio V6, you're certainly drawn into the experience, but it's a bit of a stormy one at times."

    The same issue has a preview on the new STi, presently only available in Japan.
  • littleredwagonlittleredwagon Member Posts: 5
    No I don't idle for 60 MINUTES. I do idle for 60 SECONDS. Even at a gas pump. It isn't a big deal. Maybe in some parts of the country it is so crowded at the pumps that they shoot you for sitting 60 seconds, but it isn't that way in Colorado...yet.

    My 323GTX was fully electronically fuel injected, ect., and cranking it for 10 seconds with the ignition disconnected once every 3000 miles didn't seem to hurt it. I do know, however, that there is a catalytic converter BEFORE the turbo in the WRX, and it would would be screwed up by raw gas. I'm guessing that it will be common to remove it, if it causes any performance decrease at all. The WRX stock gets the LEV label. I can tell you for certain that the pollution checks around here are so lax that a WRX would pass fine without that cat, because they only test the cars hot here in Colorado. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a WRX could pass the tests here without ANY cat at all, unless the person doing the test caught the removal visually. My old 350 Chevy truck with 200K miles passes with flying colors, and it has never been rebuilt, and has 100% original exhaust. I used to have a Mitsubishi with 140K miles that didn't even register on their equipment!
  • scythescythe Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the response silver_bullet. *sigh* I hope the pricing doesn't get jacked up like you say. I'm not sure when I can get one but I'm worried that it won't be for a little bit, even with the trade-in I can't see spending 30k. That was one of my chief concerns when there was talk of bringing a WRX to the US. I knew I had to have one but I was worried I couldn't justify the price. I have to hand it to Subaru though 24k is not a bad MSRP, if I can get one for only a few hundred dollars over invoice like I did with the RS I'd be very happy :) Probably wouldn't happen though the cars too dang popular, or it will be. I mean I don't want to pay 24k for it if I can help it, maybe if it had all leather interior I could see that price.

    I've babied my RS, synthetic oil change every 3000 miles or so, so that is nothing new, though thanks for some of the tips for the turbo. Anyone know where to get a good turbo timer? Cause I'm lazy and I know there would be that time where I just can't sit for a minute cause I'm in a hurry or something.
  • scythescythe Member Posts: 4
    dang littleredwagon 200k on your Chevy and STILL the orginal exhaust? I'm impressed, my father's Chevy doesn't even have 100k on it yet and I think he's changed the exhaust several times.

    I forgot a question, this may have been addressed earlier but what kinda colours can we expect? and where can I see them? any sites yet with that info? I'm thinking I might just get mine in silver cause that's what my current RS is and it looks great, but I always wanted that blue colour.
  • edwardsa1edwardsa1 Member Posts: 34
    At least one dealer is trying to get $500 over sticker; namely, the Subie dealer here in Norman, Oklahoma who contacted me when I "ordered" a car from the website. I said no thanks and picked up a decked-out Maxima SE with 5-speed instead.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    The WRX brochure lists five: Aspen White, Platinum Silver Metallic, Midnight Black Pearl, Sedona Red Pearl, and WR Blue Pearl. The limited production Blaze Yellow is not mentioned. All cars will have the same interior - Black Flat Woven Cloth. The colors are posted on the New-Impreza site, but you might want to order a brochure from the SOA site for more accurate color samples.
  • jwilson1jwilson1 Member Posts: 956
    When I restart my Miata after awhile, I remove the fuel injector relay then turn the engine until oil pressure builds up, then start it. Would the same thing work on the Subaru?

    Just a thought.

    Will leather be an option on the WRX or just not available?

    Take care.
    Joe W>
This discussion has been closed.