Postwar Studebakers

bhill2

How often did an R-2 end up in a Cruiser? I think that combination would be awesome (I like luxury with my performance).

kyfdx

fintail said:

The power windows in front thing was common in Europe for a long time, maybe into the 2000s. I think even MB might have done it. I don't think any cars did that on this side of the pond.

sda said:

The Renault 16 TL dad had as a company car had carpet in front and plastic like rubber in the back. When he got the R 30, it had nice carpet front and rear but only electric windows up front. The rear windows were manual. The R 30 was a much nicer car.

My '67 BMW coupe had roll up windows in the front, and power in the rear. So, the driver could control the rear windows.

Important, because it was a pillarless coupe.

isellhondas

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Frost and French--I have heard of that many times! I believe they operated well into the eighties doing parts and service business. I also heard they would buy leftover new Studes from other dealers into '68 and '69! I believe the parts were auctioned to several different parts vendors when they closed. I would have liked to see the place.

Thanks for the pleasant reminder of that place.

I was in Frost and French in the mid 70's when I had my pristine 1955 Commander with 16,000 original miles, original tires etc...long story. I needed a rear door handle. They had it in stock and the parts guy told me how it was a five minute job to replace it. That was true! The place was like stepping back in time. Little old ladies were sitting in the service drive waiting for their 80 year old Service Advisor.

uplanderguy

How often did an R-2 end up in a Cruiser? I think that combination would be awesome (I like luxury with my performance).

According to the club magazine on the '63 R-powered cars, there were 26 R2 '63 Cruisers built, two with the complete "Super" high-performance package (mostly suspension pieces). I have seen an original one in Rose Mist with red vinyl buckets and four-speed; just beautiful. As I've said many times here, I like the '63 four-door styling; Benz-inspired for sure.

In '64, there were eight R2 Cruisers built in that restyled model year. Amazingly to me, two of those eight were delivered by my small hometown dealer, Carl E. Filer Co. of Greenville, PA. One was sold to an employee; the other, to a 75-year-old owner from Sharon, about fifteen miles away. Both were black and automatics. One had blue cloth 50/50 split front bench seats with column shift; the other had red cloth buckets, floor shift, and the complete "Super" package. I wish I knew where either was, but in salty NW PA I fear the worst.

uplanderguy

RE.: Frost and French--a guy who posts on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum's Dad worked there and he said he remembered Frances Bavier ('Aunt Bee' on the Andy Griffith Show) pulling in to get her '62 Lark serviced. She later had a '66 which did appear as Aunt Bee's car on 'Mayberry RFD'.

imidazol97

The Wagonaire that I posted recently with an R2 engine is not the original engine. It's a 1964 engine if I recall the story the owner was telling me. The R2 was in a vehicle and blew up. the owner of that vehicle replaced the engine with a normal engine and sold the vehicle. This person bought the damaged engine and restored it.

There were 13 IIRC 1963 Wagonaires with R-2s from the factory.

uplanderguy

Close, 15 '63 Wagonaires built with R2.

Either way, stupidly rare of course! LOL

imidazol97

But my classic car purism rebels at making a 16th by putting an R2 into a car that didn't come
from the factory as an R2.

uplanderguy

Me, too. I like a Studebaker that matches the build sheet, even if it's not my favorite color of that model year.

uplanderguy

Because I like original/authentic restorations, and this is a color combo I like and haven't seen many of, posted here is a '63 Avanti with R2 (supercharged) engine. Not shown in the instrument panel photo is how the gauge lighting is red, how there are three overhead toggle switches above the center of the windshield, and inside the glovebox is a slide-out vanity case with fold-up mirror and makeup compartment for the ladies.

ab348

Interesting interior color combo. I like the blue or turquoise part, not so sure about the beige part.

uplanderguy

In the '63's, up until late in the model year, all the interiors had the beige ("fawn") upper door panels and dash, no matter the seat color. All the '64's had monochrome color interiors, but a lot of fake woodgrain on the dash and console.

fintail

Are those Stewart-Warner gauges? The fintail has an aftermarket S-W ammeter, likely installed by the original owner, and it really resembles those in that Avanti.

uplanderguy

Yes they are S-W gauges.

fintail

Makes me wonder if the gauge was even installed by a Stude-MB dealer or related shop. Quite a coincidence.

uplanderguy

Could-well-be, if the original owner was a stickler for dealer service.

I know dealers are more expensive, but I tend to like them for even routine service.

fintail

I think a lot of M-B devotees use dealer service, during the warranty period anyway, and maybe up until 10 years old - then indy shops present big savings. For the normal annual service, the convenience (loaner car, fast turnaround) can be worth a little added expense.

Not the best pic, as I took this from an image where I didn't try to focus on this part - this is my S-W ammeter - it appears to have the same bezel as Avanti gauges:

uplanderguy

It does look similar.

uplanderguy

Your pic reminds me of how convenient (IMHO) a 'horn ring' is. Sometime around '67 or '68 or so at GM, in my memory, they became passe (might be safety-related too, not sure), but they are sure easy to use, aren't they?

ab348

I think the demise of horn rings might have been safety-related but GM started phasing them out long before that.

Ford had a horn ring in '69 but not in '70:



Chrysler held out longer - this is from a Cordoba:

uplanderguy

Boy, Chrysler did hang on a lot longer with them!

I was never a fan of the 'rim blow' wheel I remember my friend's '70 Dart Swinger had.

My sister's '69 Chevelle Malibu had two buttons on opposing ends of the center of the wheel for the horn. I didn't like that. In fact, I remember my cousin's husband, who had just bought a new '72 Chevelle, complaining about that and commenting on how his, you could push anywhere in the center and the horn would work.

kyfdx

Our '72 Lincoln had a rubber horn ring that was all around the inside edge of the steering wheel. If it was your car, it was very handy, but it took some retraining to find the horn. Just push in hard with your thumb, no matter where your hands were on the wheel.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

My sister's '69 Chevelle Malibu had two buttons on opposing ends of the center of the wheel for the horn. I didn't like that. In fact, I remember my cousin's husband, who had just bought a new '72 Chevelle, complaining about that and commenting on how his, you could push anywhere in the center and the horn would work.

That became GM's standard for a while, my Cutlass is the same.



And then of course there was the '69/'70 Chevy wheel with two smallish buttons at the far ends of the center spoke.

fintail

A horn ring is handy for honking your hooter, indeed. I remember on the 66 Galaxie I drove when I was 16, if you pressed it at the right angle, it would come off the clip and you'd have to re-attach it, and sometimes the plastic clip would break. Maybe amazingly, in the early 90s, the local dealer still had a stock of this part, probably used for a long time and maybe not designed perfectly. I am pretty sure my dad's 68 Fairlane had a half-ring, and of course the 60 Ford had a ring.

MB used kind of a half-ring design until around 1972:



With the 108/109 cars finally being replaced by 116s, and with the new 107 (where I believe this design started), the range switched to this modern looking design, which is kind of a presage to the airbag:

kyfdx

Horn is rubber rim on inside edge of the steering wheel rim.

sda

kyfdx said:

Horn is rubber rim on inside edge of the steering wheel rim.

That is the last of the nice looking dashboards before Lincoln started sharing the Ford/Mercury dash. Mom's 69 Olds 98 also had the rim blow horn. It also had tilt/telescope.

uplanderguy

I agree with the previous poster. I never liked those later'70's Lincoln panels that looked like the Marquis dash--just a flat piece of whatever.

fintail

And then there's the frowny Ford corporate steering wheel, used in everything from the most workaday Pinto to the most disco chic Mark V:

uplanderguy

I've seen a million of them but never thought of it that way, LOL.

I've gotta say, a wheel I could never stand is that fat, four-spoked wheel that I first saw on Vega GT's, and later was used on Camaros, Corvettes, Monzas, Monte Carlo Custom ('72 only), and a decade later, the bottom-rung Cavalier Cadet. Looked cheap IMHO, and on some of the models, the upper spokes hid the tiny auxiliary gauges. Best thing I can say is that it is a fat wheel.

uplanderguy

https://stevemckelvie.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/chevrolet-vega-cosworth-twin-cam-1976-4.jpg

fintail

Reminds me of the 4 spoke seen in full size Chevy/GMC trucks in the late 80s and early 90s, not the biggest fan of that either:

uplanderguy

The worst was the installation on the '72 Monte Carlo Custom. I mean, the wheel was all-black then; just totally out-of-touch with the rest of the interior. I guess I mind it the least on a Vega.

fintail

This cute little dealership was just posted in a fintail group, not sure if it has been shared before:

uplanderguy

Ann Arbor, Michigan. It was a deep building IIRC in other pics, just narrow across the front.

How I'd love to be able to step into a Stude dealer today. I was never in one...at least not while it was a Stude dealer.

I'm partial to the smaller dealerships, being from a small town. Of course, most are gone everywhere now.

ab348

A Ford out front, a Benz in the showroom and outside on the front row. Hmmm.

uplanderguy

The pic was taken in June '64, six months into Studebaker's leaving U.S. production and dropping Hawks, Avantis, and all trucks.

Here's some earlier sixties photos of the place, from out back:

https://theoldmotor.com/?p=177913

The article mentions that the agreement with M-B ended when production ended in the U.S. in Dec. '63, but it lasted until 1965. The June '64 photo should show that to be the case, LOL!

When you blow the '64 photo up, there is a second car in the showroom, but it looks too wide to me to be a Studebaker.

fintail

Ah the 2 story one, I remember that. Great pic with the crew along with the 56 Chevy, fintail, and ponton, along with the Studes on the roof.

There's an old time small town Chevy dealer one town over from where my mom lives - been there since the 20s I think. I recall visiting there in the 90s, I think a 2 or 3 car showroom, tops.

As I think I noted, the small Stude (paired with Renault of all things - M-B was in Seattle proper and was standalone) dealer building down the street from me has now been razed, to be replaced by an office tower that who knows will ever be occupied.

bhill2

fintail said:

Ah the 2 story one, I remember that. Great pic with the crew along with the 56 Chevy, fintail, and ponton, along with the Studes on the roof.

There's an old time small town Chevy dealer one town over from where my mom lives - been there since the 20s I think. I recall visiting there in the 90s, I think a 2 or 3 car showroom, tops.

As I think I noted, the small Stude (paired with Renault of all things - M-B was in Seattle proper and was standalone) dealer building down the street from me has now been razed, to be replaced by an office tower that who knows will ever be occupied.

Has that M-B dealer been there for a long time (like 50 years)? When I was about 17 and looking for a summer job I came across an opening at the Seattle dealer for a gofer to move cars between the service department and parking (and assorted other menial tasks). I eagerly applied. They politely declined (I mean, what could go wrong).

uplanderguy

Looking at that '63 1/2 Ford in the first pic--and I like those cars--I'm reminded of how most Big Three cars then were short-hood, long-deck, LOL. I'm used to looking at Studebakers I guess; at least the Hawks and Avantis were long-hood, short-deck, which everybody else eventually got around to.

imidazol97

@uplanderguy
Is there a site that records photographs of Studebaker dealerships? I was trying to find pictures of the one in Union City, Indiana, but can't find anything in local history sites.

I believe in the 50s it was a Packard store as well and also Mercedes.

I feel sure this is the building on Winchester Street. On the right side is where the showroom and office were but the front of the building was flat. Now there's been an addition put on the front extending it toward the street and covering over what I believe was a large window on the showroom.

uplanderguy

I looked at the lists out there for both Studebaker and Packard and don't see Union City, IN listed. That only means that somebody didn't provide the information, LOL.

I'm going to put your info on the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum and see if anyone else remembers the place.

uplanderguy

The Studebaker Drivers' Club historian emeritus replied:

Not sure about the address on Winchester but Bradford Auto Sales was at 1406 West Oak in Union City and they were Studebaker- Packard dealers in 1955. Grant Bradford was the owner/operator.

fintail

Yep, from the mid-late 50s, I think. Maybe just predating the Stude link, but I am not sure. It was located in a 1920s brick building in the Pike/Pine area, south end of Cap Hill. I think it was there until around 2010. Today, MB Seattle is in the SoDo area, and is still independent I think, escaping the CarMax and similar burgeoning monopolies.

bhill2 said:

Has that M-B dealer been there for a long time (like 50 years)? When I was about 17 and looking for a summer job I came across an opening at the Seattle dealer for a gofer to move cars between the service department and parking (and assorted other menial tasks). I eagerly applied. They politely declined (I mean, what could go wrong).

fintail

The old Stude dealer building in my area, just a few blocks from me, via google from 2018. Right now it is a big hole in the ground:

imidazol97

Thx. Amazing. I even remember the name "Bradford" now from that long ago.

The Winchester Pike street splits off a couple hundred feet earlier from West Oak Street. I'll bet
then the lot actually had an Oak Street address from before the diagonal cut through was built.

My brother-in-law was a mechanic at that location. The person in charge of the dealership
was Mrs. Bradford, so I assume a death had left her a widow.

I remember my sister getting a nice green Packard that had a blown engine.
BIL bought it and put in a short block. By the style, I'd guess it was around
a 1953 model but a few years past that when someone blew the engine.

uplanderguy

I love to help find out stuff like that!

There is so much archival stuff available from Studebaker, we who like the marque are really lucky to have it available.

I'll let Richard Q. know your additional information!

uplanderguy

So many small dealerships in middle America back then. Family-owned, usually long-term employees, run on sweat and tears and local reputation.

uplanderguy

A former Stude district road man wrote several years back, that he fondly remembered the dealer in Marysville, OH (ironically, where Honda is located now). The owner had been widowed in the '30's and took over the gas station her husband owned and acquired a Studebaker franchise. He had a picture of her in 1958 and she was probably in her sixties then. She and her adult son ran the dealership and the son even referred to his mother as "Mrs. (fill in the blank)" when business was taking place. Hats off to a lady like that back then.

uplanderguy

The internet is amazing when used properly, LOL. Found the lady's obit, above, after remembering their last name ("Thorpe"):

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/15578006/francis-kirkland-thorpe-obit/

The son, Owen, lived 'til 2003 and died in McAllen, TX where he lived, although the Marysville paper had his obit as well. He took on Chrysler in 1964 and his obit read like the typical smaller-city/town business leader, involved in a lot of civic things at the time. Newspapers.com show both Stude and Chrysler ads from 1965 so he was one of the dealers who hung on after the closure of South Bend. U.S.dealer count went from 1,915 in Dec. '63 to 450 in March '66.

The Stude district guy who did a small article on the dealership remembered her as all-business.

sda

That’s cool. I guess Hondas built in Marysville have Studebaker in their DNA, or should I say spirit?