Postwar Studebakers

imidazol97

Go Buckeyes.
O. H.

uplanderguy said:

Unrelated to cars, but has anyone seen Fox's commercial for The Ohio State/Michigan game? They actually have audio of Eisenhower's speech to D-Day troops. GIve me a ..... break!

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Unrelated to cars, but has anyone seen Fox's commercial for the Ohio State/Michigan game? They actually have audio of Eisenhower's speech to D-Day troops. GIve me a ..... break!

College footbawww is a big deal for many, almost comically so (as someone who never got into it, I can snark).

fintail

uplanderguy said:

fin, I remember us talking about that flagpole in the 1963 photo. It does look airbrushed doesn't it, but there is still that flagpole in that very location on the building, with nothing on it now.

That building is largely original inside, but the deterioration is sad. I wish someone would rescue it. There is some evidence of homeless inside. I was in it most recently this past June. The president's office is in that upper left corner. His private bathroom with shower still has all the original fixtures.

It's too small to see, but the water tower in the pic had the same logo as on Egbert's business card I posted here a few days ago. I've seen other 1963 photos of it.

I am surprised that area isn't being revitalized, being a college town, and a town of a college that is well-regarded. Maybe it will take time - some say Detroit is slowly but surely cleaning up just a little. Worst part is the longer the building sits idle, the tougher it will be to revive.

That flag must be about 30 feet wide, if it is real.

fintail

bhill2 said:

Oh Lordy, Fin. You know how to make a guy feel old (OK, with good reason). I was in junior high when that photo was taken.

I think might have some "old" tastes for my age More than a few times I have been asked if the fintail was inherited or given to me by grandpa etc. I'll attribute it to my dad's taste in cars, and then having a few oldies in the family fleet when I was young did it too.

uplanderguy

I watch zero sports. I used to fake it, but haven't probably for 20 or so years. Being like that does put a man on the outside of society.

uplanderguy

I guess next time I promote a S.D.C. national show, or the Heritage Days (competitive) car show in my hometown, I'll overlay an audio of Patton addressing Battle of the Bulge soldiers on it. LOL

fintail

An unusual Stude-related (Mercedes-Benz Sales) item popped up in a fintail group, thought I would share it here. This is a European Delivery Program booklet, prices quoted for late 1962, but I think this may have been printed early in calendar year 1963 due to the 230SL being pictured. Those prices! Of course those were zero option cars at factory, but still - a 300SL would have been a fine investment:

sda

fintail said:

An unusual Stude-related (Mercedes-Benz Sales) item popped up in a fintail group, thought I would share it here. This is a European Delivery Program booklet, prices quoted for late 1962, but I think this may have been printed early in calendar year 1963 due to the 230SL being pictured. Those prices! Of course those were zero option cars at factory, but still - a 300SL would have been a fine investment:

I would like to have special ordered a car and did European delivery. What a great experience.

Michaell

Huh - my handy inflation calculator suggests that those prices in 1962 are about 10% of what they are today. Who wouldn't take the 300SL Roadster for $85K?

fintail

Those late run 300SL roadsters usually trade for over a million these days - sounds like a deal.

Michaell said:

Huh - my handy inflation calculator suggests that those prices in 1962 are about 10% of what they are today. Who wouldn't take the 300SL Roadster for $85K?

fintail

sda said:

fintail said:

An unusual Stude-related (Mercedes-Benz Sales) item popped up in a fintail group, thought I would share it here. This is a European Delivery Program booklet, prices quoted for late 1962, but I think this may have been printed early in calendar year 1963 due to the 230SL being pictured. Those prices! Of course those were zero option cars at factory, but still - a 300SL would have been a fine investment:

I would like to have special ordered a car and did European delivery. What a great experience.

Imagine it then on less crowded roads in one of those cars, too.

uplanderguy

How interesting and a nice sales touch!

I posted it here some years back, but one of my Studebaker Drivers' Club magazines had a photo from 1963 of a warehouse out in South Bend that was full of new Benzes.

ab348

Odd that they show the 230SL but do not include it on the list of prices.

uplanderguy

Quite a jump in prices between a 220SE sedan and coupe. That's some premium-priced product for the times. The Avanti was $4,445, pretty pricey at the time.

My late Stude dealer friend's Dad, who founded the dealership in 1926, had a 220 sedan, but I think older than a '62 or '63. My friend said his Dad really enjoyed the car. Black with red leather inside.

That pamphlet is a good primer for me, as I'm not knowledgeable on what 'Benz models were what.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Quite a jump in prices between a 220SE sedan and coupe. That's some premium-priced product for the times. The Avanti was $4,445, pretty pricey at the time.

My late Stude dealer friend's Dad, who founded the dealership in 1926, had a 220 sedan, but I think older than a '62 or '63. My friend said his Dad really enjoyed the car. Black with red leather inside.

That pamphlet is a good primer for me, as I'm not knowledgeable on what 'Benz models were what.

The coupes were meant to be a big step up above the sedans, and had much fancier interiors - standard leather, a lot more wood, etc.

And those prices were at the factory, not including options and transport. Still, comparing a mid range 220S/SE fintail with a moderately equipped Buick may not be a stretch - but I understand Buick had a lot more cachet then (and was a much larger car filled with more accessories than an intermediate sized fintail).

I am amused at the price difference between the coupes coupe and cabrio - roughly $500. Today the cabrio is worth significantly more, of course, and I have to imagine even then the cost of the convertible-specific equipment was more than $500.

fintail

ab348 said:

Odd that they show the 230SL but do not include it on the list of prices.

From what I can see, the 230SL was shown for some time before it was offered for sale. It was a MY 1964 intro and probably not on sale til late fall like most new cars, but promo materials feature it earlier.

imidazol97

This headlight group said "Studebaker" to me as soon as I saw it in a
facebook car cruise forum.

Am I right?

sda

It kind of looks like a Vauxhall as well.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

This headlight group said "Studebaker" to me as soon as I saw it in a
facebook car cruise forum.

Am I right?

Looks like a Gen-1 Ford Mercury Capri to me.

uplanderguy

I don’t know what it is, but it’s not a Studebaker.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

I don’t know what it is, but it’s not a Studebaker.

My guess is ab348 is right--could it be the brown vehicle (Capri) in this pic?

uplanderguy

I'd say ab wins the prize!

bhill2

fintail said:

An unusual Stude-related (Mercedes-Benz Sales) item popped up in a fintail group, thought I would share it here. This is a European Delivery Program booklet, prices quoted for late 1962, but I think this may have been printed early in calendar year 1963 due to the 230SL being pictured. Those prices! Of course those were zero option cars at factory, but still - a 300SL would have been a fine investment:

I can't resist noting that the 300SL coupe and convertible (coupe/roadster) were lower priced than the comparable 300SE's. Talk about a difference in return.

uplanderguy

Sixty years ago this month, after 111 years, Studebaker production in the U.S. ended (Dec. 20 for the regular production line of Lark Challengers, Commanders, Daytonas, Cruisers, Wagonaires, and Gran Turismo Hawks), Dec. 26 for Avantis (on their own separate line), and Dec. 27 for trucks).

This is the last magazine ad for a Studebaker Avanti, in Dec. '63's National Geographic. Back in the day, I cut this ad out of the magazine in my college library and put it on my dorm room wall. (This image is from eBay).

uplanderguy

Last regular-production U.S. built Studebaker, in the Studebaker National Museum with under 24 miles. It was an ordered unit for Boyer Bros. Studebaker in Fleetwood, PA but was replaced with a car in factory inventory and options added and deleted, and the original car donated to the City of South Bend. The dealer had no idea. A friend of his saw the car at the museum and saw "Boyer Bros." on the window sticker. The dealer took a train to South Bend in 2005 and was very excited. He actually was quoted in the paper as saying something along the lines of, "It's made my life worth living again. I know I can't get the car, but it'll always be a Boyer Bros. Studebaker".

It's the red car here. It's a 240 hp R1 engine, chromed engine parts, 4-speed, disc brakes, tach, 50/50 cloth and vinyl split front bench seat. The turquoise car is the last Studebaker car, period, built 3/17/66 in Hamilton, ON and driven by a Stude exec in South Bend for 19K miles, until 1969.

Our Ohio Region S.D.C. newsletter editor has a '64 Hawk built on the last day, 12/20/63. I found this out for him at the archives. I always remembered the red Daytona to be serial 20202 and my friend's Hawk was 20170. At a Stude swap meet in York, PA a decade ago, I came across '64 Hawk serial 20169--one freakin' number before my friend's! I showed it to him. We were amazed. I grew up on Chevys but that would never happen 50 years later on any Big Three car, I don't believe.

The last Hawk is in private hands, and the last Studebaker Avanti is in the Crawford Auto and Aviation Museum in Cleveland. I've seen it a bunch of times. The last truck was sold to the General Services Administration and was no doubt used up.

uplanderguy

The red car shown on a transport trailer, before the final decision had been made to keep the car. South Bend Tribune photo, copied here from a New York Times article.

fintail

bhill2 said:

fintail said:

An unusual Stude-related (Mercedes-Benz Sales) item popped up in a fintail group, thought I would share it here. This is a European Delivery Program booklet, prices quoted for late 1962, but I think this may have been printed early in calendar year 1963 due to the 230SL being pictured. Those prices! Of course those were zero option cars at factory, but still - a 300SL would have been a fine investment:

I can't resist noting that the 300SL coupe and convertible (coupe/roadster) were lower priced than the comparable 300SE's. Talk about a difference in return.

A super nice 300SE coupe might be worth 75K, a cabrio 150K. A super nice final run 300SL maybe 1.5-2MM. Shows what being a legend can do.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

The red car shown on a transport trailer, before the final decision had been made to keep the car. South Bend Tribune photo, copied here from a New York Times article.

Had the red car been special ordered and called back, or was it just being sent to be on the lot before someone decided to keep it? It seems like a pretty nice spec to be a random build.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Sixty years ago this month, after 111 years, Studebaker production in the U.S. ended (Dec. 20 for the regular production line of Lark Challengers, Commanders, Daytonas, Cruisers, Wagonaires, and Gran Turismo Hawks), Dec. 26 for Avantis (on their own separate line), and Dec. 27 for trucks).

This is the last magazine ad for a Studebaker Avanti, in Dec. '63's National Geographic. Back in the day, I cut this ad out of the magazine in my college library and put it on my dorm room wall. (This image is from eBay).

I think I have mentioned it before - back in the 90s when my parents had a space in an antique mall, I would go to yard sales, buy piles of old National Geographics for nothing, cut the ads out, and sell them in bundles in the antique mall spot. IIRC, 10 ads for $10, all random. I also did this with Coke ads. As that kind of stuff was big then, it sold as fast as I could make new bundles - not a bad income supplement for a kid.

uplanderguy

The red R1 Daytona was a customer order. At some point of unusual nostalgia it seems, management decided to keep the car and donate it to the City of South Bend so it never left the city.

Maybe twenty years ago, there was an article in the club magazine that the 'ringer' built to replace the car, was found...in Australia. It had been sold there from the U.S. at some point. Museum build sheets and shipper information showed the car was altered over a month after it was built, with items added and deleted, and the destination changed from "Stock" to "Fleetwood, PA". Supposedly, a tach wasn't added even though it was part of getting the R1 engine, and the front fenders were left with the usual parallelogram "8" emblem instead of the "Avanti Powered" badges, presumably because the mounting holes in the fenders were different.

I can imagine the customer being aware of no tach when the car was delivered.

When you think about it, in today's world the customer would probably have a case that he was denied the last U.S.-built (regular production) Studebaker. But then, he didn't know.

uplanderguy

fin, definitely a cool way for a kid to make extra $$. I remember at most car flea markets seeing boxes of magazine car ads that had been cut out and for sale. I bought a few myself.

sda

I have boxes of new car brochures dating from the mid 70s. I enjoy rummaging through them from time to time and would hate to throw them out. Yet, they are stored in the attic which isn’t ideal. Ultimately, not sure what to do with them.

kyfdx

sda said:

I have boxes of new car brochures dating from the mid 70s. I enjoy rummaging through them from time to time and would hate to throw them out. Yet, they are stored in the attic which isn’t ideal. Ultimately, not sure what to do with them.

When you die, your kids or grandkids will throw them in the dumpster.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

The red R1 Daytona was a customer order. At some point of unusual nostalgia it seems, management decided to keep the car and donate it to the City of South Bend so it never left the city.

Maybe twenty years ago, there was an article in the club magazine that the 'ringer' built to replace the car, was found...in Australia. It had been sold there from the U.S. at some point. Museum build sheets and shipper information showed the car was altered over a month after it was built, with items added and deleted, and the destination changed from "Stock" to "Fleetwood, PA". Supposedly, a tach wasn't added even though it was part of getting the R1 engine, and the front fenders were left with the usual parallelogram "8" emblem instead of the "Avanti Powered" badges, presumably because the mounting holes in the fenders were different.

I can imagine the customer being aware of no tach when the car was delivered.

When you think about it, in today's world the customer would probably have a case that he was denied the last U.S.-built (regular production) Studebaker. But then, he didn't know.

Maybe the person who ordered the car was a Stude loyalist who understood the desire to keep the last car, and was OK with it. I think there would definitely be a case for legal action if that happened today.

I have a few fintail ads found in those car show ad seller boxes, or gifted to me. I probably averaged $100/month most of the time in that antique mall booth with the ads and other things - not bad back when local minimum wage was under $5/hr.

Re: brochures, yeah, sell them now if you have no attachment to them or they give no enjoyment. There's a new interest in malaise era material, so they might have a little value, but they might not forever, and people who aren't into it will just see them as old junk. When I was younger, I hoarded a pile of stuff like that - brochures, magazines, even had a big collection of automotive paint chip samples in binders. Some would be sold in the antique mall, but I held on to some of it for some reason. When I was a student, my mom decided to clear out the garage where a lot of this was stored, and I told her to let it all go. It all sold! Also had a couple dozen old tube radios that also sold like hotcakes,

texases

I would think there’d be a ready market on eBay if you split them up into batches, by make, model, whatever. Or maybe on make-specific forums

benjaminh

sda said:

fintail said:

....Those prices!...

Imagine being able to get a 190 for about the price of a Pontiac!

uplanderguy

Richard Quinn photo from FB this morning. Some of the first M-B's to arrive at a Stude dealership in 1957 after the signing. Scherman-Schaus-Freeman dealership in South Bend, which incidentally was the first Studebaker National Museum building until the current building was opened in 2005. The Studebaker Administration Building is shown in the background.

fintail

A coupe of 190SLs of course, a 4cyl Ponton, and a 6cyl Ponton (probably 220S)

benjaminh

I think this has been posted here before, but it's a really nice car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2CUyiVy_mU

uplanderguy

Yes, that is a beautiful Gran Turismo Hawk. Great color, which was only available on cars with the Super package. I prefer the '64 which had a plain, denuded decklid without the metal overlay, but I'd happily take this car!

In the '90's at some point, the owner, John Begian, was the president of the Studebaker Drivers Club.

uplanderguy

I gotta admit, not a fan of the decklid-mounted antenna.

I'd have to look in my SDC magazine featuring '63 Hawks, but I think that antenna was available only on '62's. Really, not sure on '63's. But on '64's, not available; that I know.

People still do a beautifully authentic restoration on later GT Hawks, then put that antenna on, sigh.

uplanderguy

fin, in that first 190 in that '57 pic, I can't tell if the door is slightly open or not, but were the rocker moldings curved like that?

fintail

uplanderguy said:

fin, in that first 190 in that '57 pic, I can't tell if the door is slightly open or not, but were the rocker moldings curved like that?

Yep, the rocker molding curves up just a little at the front:

uplanderguy

Stumbled on this photo. I have posted it here before, but to me, it's a dead-to-nuts restoration so far as the factory-original 'rake' on these cars were. Best color too.

sda

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/kelly-garett.html&psig=AOvVaw3mYWhS6oma5GDfTk26TPst&ust=1701914868030000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCJjpyb7d-YIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABBD
I bought a fully loaded, leather, sunroof, running boards, roof rails, polished aluminum wheels, 2008 HHR 2LT with 16k in 2010. It was the same color as this SS, Mystic Blue Flash Metallic. I can’t find my pics of my HHR. It had some pearl tint in the paint and would change shade depending on the light. It was a good car, had a surprisingly supple ride, perky performance from the 2.4. It was my little car that ‘could’. It was quite versatile, but I hated the blind spot at the B pillar. My wife didn’t care for it much so it was traded about 2 years later for a CR-V. Call me weird, but I have a soft spot for the HHR.

Sorry, meant to post in I spotted an…classic car today.

fintail

My uncle's HHR might be a 1LT then? Leather and I think sunroof but I don't seem to recall that aggressive front bumper. I think he might have bought it new - come to think of it, it might have been my late aunt's car and he held on to it. He also has a 90s Dakota with typical failing paint of the era I think he uses to tow a small boat.

uplanderguy

The HHR does have personality. There was a turquoise or aqua color I remember liking on them.

uplanderguy

This Avanti just sold on BaT for $72k, nice showing. I wouldn't buy it solely for the mirrors out on the fenders. I've seen factory photos with no outside mirror (looks great, but not practical), mirrors on the fenders like this car, and mirror on the door. I'd choose that last one.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1963-studebaker-avanti-50/?fbclid=IwAR1yUDZSYV2N-HhUKEBy4eNQEEVmo1DCm05cKWKMXyQb7JtSFZazZGPvyzA

imidazol97

That's an OSU Buckeye car: crimson and grey.

uplanderguy

Gorgeous '53 Commander Starliner with under 3K miles, even original tires. Currently in the AACA Museum at Hershey.