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The answer about dumping water might be korrect, but why were they dumping water?
I want to answer the question about one part that would make an R-2 Avanti run like an R-3, because I want to give it more time, but as a student of history, I know it to be a historical fact that Studebakers are safer than Fords.
For example, President Kennedy was killed while riding in a Lincoln, but President Lincoln was killed in Ford’s Theater after he had safely embarked from his Studebaker carriage, which had carried him safely to that location.
Both of our greatest Presidents were killed while sitting in Ford products, although the events took place nearly one hundred years apart!
You could look it up.
But seriously, a lot of drag racing is based on driver skill, as much as car. Some guys are just too good to beat.
That is why I mentioned the "finger on the scale" by picking a slow race on a wet track. The Avanti is the lighter car (much lighter in the rear), and it is riding on 15 inch wheels to the Pontiac's 14 inch wheels. The Avanti was not designed to be a drag racer. It beat the Pontiac Catalina top speed record set by Mickey Thompson at Bonneville. Maybe that was also done by an R-2 Avanti. I am not certain about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHyv-HvkaRU&feature=related
Most Big Three guys there have been good sports and enjoyed learning what '63 and '64 Studes can do, but one or two have been heard to say "I'm not going up against (that) Studebaker" and have refused to race. No joke. This is in reference to both the red '63 R2 and brown '64 R3...two different owners, but driven by the same driver, a guy who is now 74 years old and was a NHRA national champion, driving an old bullet-nose Studebaker with supercharged power called "The Chicken Hawk" almost fifty years ago.
George's R-3 Avanti (a white one with an orange interior) was the first Avanti I ever rode in (in 1968) and that short ride inspired me to get my own Avanti as soon as possible. I did that when I was 19 years old. The image below has an imprint that says “Oct 72" but it was taken at the South Bend Drivers Club meet earlier that year. I also have an old 8 mm movie from that year showing George Krem helping out a Studebaker driver who broke down on the Indiana Toll Road on the way home from the South Bend meet. By all accounts he is a great guy.
I raced my Avanti in 1973-74 at Island Drag Raceway in Hackettstown New Jersey. It had the 3:31 rear ratio, which was too tall for drag racing. It had a Borg Warner T-10 4 speed, but my best times were when held it in third and did not shift to fourth. I did not change the rear end to a better ratio for drag racing because the 3:31 was a very good gear ratio for driving home from Ft. Dix to Chicago whenever I had a few days off.
Mr. Shiftright had the correct answer about the use of bleach. . .to put on the track to spin the rear tires to get them hot and sticky. I doubt that this is permitted anywhere any more.
The one part that will make an R-2 run much faster is to put a smaller belt pulley on the front of the supercharger. However, if the pulley is too small, it will blow the gaskets out of the R-2 sealed carburetor. That is why the R-3 used a blower box that enclosed the entire carburetor but if that was used, the car was not stock at the drag strip and you could not close the hood. Therefore, you had to shim the body up on the front (as was done for the R-3 Avantis and the Avanti IIs) or you needed to use “brand X “ motor mounts to lower the engine.
I believe that the '51 known as the Chicken Hawk used an original 232 cu. in motor. One of the best Studebaker V-8s was the 224 cu. in. motor used during the first half of the 1955 model year. It was smaller but much stronger than the 232 motor it replaced, but the race for more engine displacement was strong in 1954-1955, so they increased the displacement to 259 cu. in January 1955.
http://s1095.photobucket.com/albums/i480/JLJac1/?action=view¤t=11LarkShowK- athyKylie-1.mp4
Sorry I did not follow up on your truck discussion. Here is one I like and a weasel is next to it. You never know what types of vehicles might show up at a Studebaker meet.
No car can beat a Weasel off the line at the drag strip, but after the first ten feet, it reaches top speed and can rarely finish the race in less than a minute. No need to bleach the tires on this baby!
As for 1958 cars in general, I think only ones I like the least are the Oldsmobile (too overdone, yet manages to look sort of old-fogey at the same time) and the Mercury (too dull and blocky). Oh, and I don't like the Lincoln, either. Too bulky, blocky, and I just don't like that front-end.
I think the Edsel's only real problem is the vulgar, suggestive front-end. Viewed from the side and rear, I think the car is actually fairly attractive. I like the gull-wing look of the rear better than the '59 Chevy's batwing look. And I know I'm in the minority here, but I prefer the '58 Ford to the '57. I just don't like that jutting, bug-eyed look of the '57.
I give the '58 Studebaker/Packard a free pass for '58, because they were so close to oblivion, it's a miracle they were able to produce anything at all. I think the '57 versions were more attractive, but considering the budget they probably had to work with, I won't hold the '58's against them. In those days, they had to make model changes, for better or worse. Nobody would buy a car that looked just like last year's model.
I see a resemblance between Studebakers and Chryslers of the mid to late 50s, but the reason for that is that designer Virgil Exner left Studebaker (after Raymond Lowey fired him) and went to work for Chrysler. Roy Cole, chief engineer of Studebaker did not like Lowey, so he had Exner
working for him on the side, submitting competing designs.
Prior to the 1955 model year, Chrysler products were not known for styling. After Exner took over, they looked more like Studebakers and vice-versa.
As discussed earlier, Ford got some help from Studebaker designers for the 1949 Ford too. Studebaker would have been a lot better off if its designers had more loyalty to the company that employed them.
Of the 1958 GM cars, I like the Pontiac and Cadillac the best, but I also liked the Ford (especially the Fairlane retractable hardtop) and Plymouth that year.
The line up would have been different because Nash/Rambler would have been the low price automaker. The line up would have been Packard vs. Cadillac, Hudson vs. Buick, Studebaker vs Oldsmobile/Pontiac and Nash vs. Chevrolet.
None of these companies built trucks to any extent except Studebaker. The only exception was that Hudson sold a car with a truck bed for a short time which was similar to the 1937-38 Studebaker coupe express http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1937-1938-studebaker-coupe-express.htm
Historically, Studebakers were in the medium to expensive range class(Buick-Oldsmobile) with its President and Commander, but in 1939 the Studebaker Champion was a huge success and became known as a producer of economy cars because of that. Packard tried to go into the low price field but did not do well.
During the Henry Ford II Ford price war blitz that began in 1953, Nash American Motors almost went broke too. It gave up on the small Nash/Rambler between 1956-1957 but George Romney decided to put it back in production in 1958 as the Rambler American.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambler_American American tastes had changed in that 1958 "year of the Edsel" and the Rambler American sold very well and put American Motors back on the road to success. Studebaker saw that success and responded with the Lark in 1959.
Studebaker, American Motors, Willys and Kaiser-Fraiser were trying to sell smaller “compact” cars to America in the 1950-1957 era, but we were not ready to buy them then because Ford and GM were selling full size cars with more power for a similar price because of the price war between those two giants. Ford actually outsold Chevrolet in 1957, but the cars we like the most now are not always the cars we liked the most then.
Studebaker topic: My friend Ed's black '64 Daytona convertible was built on Wednesday, Nov. 27, 1963...five days after JFK was assassinated and the day before Thanksgiving. I kid him about workmanship on the car. Someone in the national club listed all '64 South Bend-built convertibles and my friend's is the absolute only one that was black with blue interior.
Returning to the Studebaker topic, I originally lived in South Bend, but transfered to Henry Ford II elementry school in Chicago Ridge when my mom remarried. There was a very big painting of Henry Ford II when you went into the main entrance. It was very strange to go from a place where Henry Ford II was the devil, to a school where he was worshiped. We got a regular stream of movies from Ford Motor Company too, but I remained an infidel.
Competition from Henry Ford II did more damage to Studebaker than any other automaker. . .first there was the 1949 Ford based upon Studebaker designs, then there was the price war that began in 1953, then there was turning the Thunderbird to a four seat car to compete with the Hawk in 1958 and finally the Ford Falcon, first with the 6 cylinder and later with the V-8 engines.
GM did not try to compete with Studebaker as much. The 1960 Covair was amied at the competition from Volkswagen, but when GM saw how much money Ford was making on the Falcon, they too unleashed the hounds with the Chevy II Nova.
I grew up in the western suburbs back then. Can't forget Bozo's Grand Prize Game! I remember the time the kid said the Bozo No-No words on the live show and the screen went blank until they could get some commercials on. Came back and just like magic, the kid was gone. WGN was owned by the Tribune which was a very conservative company. Some years later they moved Bozo to mornings, supposedly because guys were betting on how many buckets the kids would make while having lunch in the bars around the area. Not exactly the image WGN wanted for their show. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd shift crews were at the bars betting on the kids after it switched to its morning slot. (For all its popularity - the prizes on that game tended to be kind of crappy!)
Andre, Even though Exner referred to his 57/58's as the forward look and suddenly its 1960 doesn't mean its the psychedellic 60's buddy! Did you drop some sugar cubes in your coffee that morning? OK, I'll be more polite - perhaps Salvador Dali did the Packardbakers.
1958 Packard
1958 DeSoto
I know this may be wandering a bit, but I heard that the kid either said, "Up yo' nose Boze" or "Cram it clown" or both. I was not watching that day. Is that consistent with what you witnessed?
Here is a site you might like http://www.tvparty.com/lostkids6.html Kids TV shows from the Chicago area. "Hot dogs, hamburgers, spaghetti & meatballs" forever.
Kind of. He mumbled something like sh.. and then Ringmaster Ned said now that's a Bozo No No. The kid then responded up yours and the screen went dark. Incidently, one summer in college I drove forklifts with a guy from Wheaton. He said he lived around the corner from Ringmaster Ned and that in real life he was kind if a grouch - the get off my lawn type.
Funny you say this. My dealer friend was wooed by the Dodge road man to take on Dodge after the Dodge dealer got out of the business. He was told how well he'd do, etc., and was invited to Detroit to see the new '62's with the road man. When he saw them, he said, "Those look worse than a Studebaker!". He didn't take on the Dodge franchise.
On the other hand I defy anyone to come up with an uglier year for Mopars, at least for Plymouth and Desoto, than 1961.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
It was hard to tell the difference after Mopar aped the Lark by producing the Valiant. The Big Three did not want Studebaker to have any of the market . . not even the taxi market.
As for Studebaker, I saw a proposed 66 new designed vehicle prototype once and liked its looks. They were going to be different and modern, but who knows how the public would have receied the new models?
Studebaker had more than one prototype already built. I believe that Brooks Stevens built four different vehicles (not including the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile) Two are shown below. The station wagon used one door for the front and rear and hung them “suicide” style to save tooling costs.
The Nash did something similar with the Metro. They used one door for both sides of the car by switching the location of the door handles and hinges to opposite sides of the door.
There is plenty of information to support conspiracy theories where Studebaker designers are concerned. I always knew that Exner was an employee of Raymond Lowey, who fired him for working behind his back with Studebaker Chief Engineer Roy Cole. What I did not know until this turkey day was that Roy Cole helped send Exner to Chrysler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Exner
Studebaker Corporation
In 1944, he [Exner] was fired by Loewy and was hired directly by Studebaker in South Bend, Indiana. There he was involved in the design of some of the first cars to be produced after World War II (Studebaker's slogan during this period was "First by far with a post war car"). As acknowledged by Robert Bourke,[2] Virgil was the final designer of the acclaimed 1947 Studebaker Starlight coupe, though Raymond Loewy received the public acknowledgment because his legendary name was a major advertising attraction. Exner is actually listed as sole inventor on the design patent.[3] Rivalry and bad feeling between the two resulted in Exner having to leave Studebaker, whose engineering chief Roy Cole provided personal introductions for him to Ford and Chrysler.[1]
With disloyal employees like that, who needs competitors?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-STUDEBAKER-AVANTI-R1-9-972-ACTUAL-MILES-99-O- RIGINAL-UNRESTORED-WOW-/160690614915?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2569e83283
I'd be bummed when in 28 miles you'd lose one more zero from the odometer though!
He is right about the need for power steering. That makes a big difference. I am still pissed about that road test where an Avanti with manual steering was compared to a Corvette, T-Bird and Rivera that had power streering. That was definitely comparing apples to oranges.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/1964%20Daytona%20last%20Studebaker/colinrear/- - US%2520Museums/Picture013-2.jpg
Our club magazine has a close-up of the odometer this month...23.8 miles. Studebaker built the car to fulfill a customer order; then decided to keep the car and donate it to the city of South Bend. A 'ringer' was made for the customer, from a car in stock (options added and deleted to meet the order). Window sticker of the last car says consigned to Boyer Brothers Motors, Moselem Springs, PA. In 2005 a friend of one of the Boyer brothers was in the Studebaker Museum and saw the car, and mentioned it to the one surviving Boyer brother. He had no idea and got on a bus and went to South Bend and was photographed with the car for the Tribune.
I personally would love a Daytona like this one...Avanti R1 engine (chrome air cleaner, valve covers, and dipstick handle), 4-speed, 50/50 front seats...and a NOS complete Studebaker!
Last Avanti built 12/26/63 (it survives in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland), and last truck built 12/27/63, whereabouts unknown. Last Hawk was five serial nos. before the red Daytona and was sold to a customer...whereabouts were known a decade ago but owner died. Haven't heard anything about the car since then.
Very interesting story. I never heard that one, but it makes sense. I cannot imagine that Studebaker would have breached the contract and not sent any replacement car to the customer. Studebaker intended to stay in the auto business at that time, at least for a few years. They kept building engines in South Bend for the remainder of the 1964 model year. I wonder if they kept building the R-series engines for the Canadian cars.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f883401310f813d66970c-8- 00wi
Three-mile oval. I've had my Studebaker on it once and rode in another on it once, during the International Meets in South Bend in '02 and '07. It's great fun. They had the huge wrought-iron gates that are original to the place, swung open and pointed you right in!
Fintail, you might appreciate the last comment on that thread (as of now anyway)--from the gentleman who was head of Studebaker's advertising/marketing department in Canada at that time. He says he remembers hearing about JFK's assasination en route to a press introduction he was giving for the new Mercedes 600.