The 2003 S-type brings some interesting questions.
No increase in displacement for the V6 (still 3.0). If Lincoln is to add more power it would seem to require VVT or other modifications.
4.2L V8. Since the S-type is coming out early in the year that would mean the LS is using the 3.9L version for some period of time. Did Jag get the .2 increase by increasing the stroke (meaning no block modification) or did they change the bore also? If the block is changed then both versions of the block would have to be made concurrently until Lincoln changes over. Or is it possible that Lincoln will continue with the 3.9 or 4.0 version and Jag will have the 4.2? If so Lincoln could add VVT (essentially having the old Jag version 4.0 with 282 hp).
So, will it be a 4.0L VVT or a 4.2L non-VVT? Or to heck with marketing strategy and go with the same 4.2L VVT as the S-type? If Lincoln is really moving more upscale that would seem to throw away the notion of brand priorities with Jaguar. How about a 3.0 VVT with 240 hp? And a six-speed Getrag? If the engineers cared enough to change the overdive ratio in the 5R55 then why wouldn't they go for the 6-speed if it's available?
And speaking of trannies, the S-type gets a new 6-speed automatic tranny made by ZF. So will the LS get the same 6-speed ZF auto or stick with the 5-speed? Or maybe a 6-speed version of the 5R55?
Just a few questions to ponder until we get the real details on the 2003. I'm sure Brian is having to sit on his hands to keep from typing (with that big evil grin on his face).......
Hmm....Lincoln Motorsports 400 hp LS with your choice of 6-speed automatic or 6-speed manual. With optional LSD of course. That has a nice ring to it!
Lease up on my black 00LS8 sport. Leased a black 2002 Premium LS8. Great driving car. Upgrade in leather, carpet, chrome wheels and etc. The only thing I'm having a problem with is the chrome on the bumpers, don't like the looks. Any one tried painting them the color of the car? Would paint stick on the chrome? Any suggestions.
LS Automatic LS Manual CTS Manual old new 1st 3.22 3.22 4.23 3.56 2nd 2.41 2.28 2.52 2.04 3rd 1.54 1.54 1.67 1.34 4th 1.00 1.00 1.22 1.00 5th 0.75 0.71 1.00 0.82
Ratio spread 1st overall 5th overall 1st/5th Auto old 4.293:1 w/3.58 - 11.53:1 w/3.58 - 2.69:1 Auto new 4.535:1 w/3.58 - 11.53:1 w/3.58 - 2.54:1 LS Manual 4.230:1 w/3.07 - 12.99:1 w/3.07 - 3.07:1 CTS Manual 4.341:1 w/3.73 - 13.28:1 w/3.73 - 3.06:1
Conclusions:
The LS manual ratio spread is virtually the same as the old automatic ratios.
The CTS manual has only a 2.6% advantage in ratio spread over the LS manual with only 2.2% of it in 1st gear, insignificanr for all practical purposes.
The new automatic ratios do not give better 1st gear performance, but seem to be aimed at giving lower cruise RPM, and a more even spread between gears
The new automatic 5th ratio gives 17.3% lower cruise RPM than the LS manual - ie: 2346RPM vs. 2000RPM.
I gather that the change in the 5th gear ratio was strictly a fuel economy move and, from my experiece, works very well. The change in the second gear ratio is, I assume, to improve the 1-2 and 2-3 shifting. Is that correct? What effect will these changes have on the 0 to 60 times (V8 Automatic)? How about passing accelertation (30 MPH to 60 MPH, for instance)?
The only change that was made was to the overdrive ratio. Since the overdrive is used in conjunction with 1st gear to produce 2nd gear it changed also. Mark reported from day one that the optimum OD ratio was .71 to provide the proper spacing between 1st and 2nd. Any benefit in mileage was probably gravy. Without a corresponding change to the rear axle it probably won't make much of a performance difference, but it will improve the shifting into and out of 2nd gear.
The only change that was made was to the overdrive ratio. Since the overdrive is used in conjunction with 1st gear to produce 2nd gear it changed also. Mark reported from day one that the optimum OD ratio was .71 to provide the proper spacing between 1st and 2nd. Any benefit in mileage was probably gravy. Without a corresponding change to the rear axle it probably won't make much of a performance difference, but it will improve the shifting into and out of 2nd gear.
I saw that same Auto Week article, unfortunately it is wrong. I have a copy of the 2003 Jag S Type brouchure and it says it is a Getrag 5-speed manual with a final drive of 3.07:1.
There is however a new ZF 6 Speed auto though that is available on all the V6 and V8 S-Types.
The published specs I have seen from Jaguar's UK web site for the 4.2L are: Bore: 86.0 mm Stroke: 90.3 mm HP: 300 @ 6000 TQ: 310 @ 4100 Cheers, - Ray Who is old enough to remember the first time (1965 - in the E-Type) that Jaguar increased the displacement to 4.2 litres . . .
Aha - 86 mm is the same bore as the current 3.9L and 4.0L engines. So they stroked it out to 4.2L. That means the block is the same which makes sense from a cost standpoint. It also means Lincoln could keep the current 3.9L displacement (with a 85mm stroke) or go up to the 4.2L or anywhere in-between.
Or Lincoln could change the stroke and do a 4.0 or a 4.1 L just to be different from Jag. Somewhere (Autoweek?) I read an interview with a high up Jag person. He made a point of saying that they at Jag. were very proud of having "their own engines", that is engines that were not shared with other FoMoCo products. He also said that they intended to keep it that way. So the part of the difference in the LS engine my be just to apease the Jag & PAG brass.
In any case, any increase on the LS V8's stroke would increase the low end grunt (low RPM torque) which would be great as my only complaint with the otherwise wonderful 3.9L V8 is that it could use some more low end grunt.
I'd have to guess that no change in the Jag V6's displacement means that the bore or stroke cannot be increased without changing the block, otherwise I'd have to think that Ford / Jag would have already offered a larger displacement version. Wherever I saw some stuff on the new 3.3L V6 I remeber it saying that it was a 2004 or 2005 engine. With all of Ford's problems and staffing cuts I'd imagine that the date could be pushed out futher.
My first car was a slightly used (15k miles) '70 Mach I with a 351 Cleveland. It had an 11.0-1 compression ratio, which was the highest c.r. of any production Ford engine that year; even higher than the Bosses or the 428s. It wouldn't run worth a flip on Exxon (Enco back then) or Texaco premium; Gulf No-Nox premium was the only fuel that made it happy. (Sunoco never made it to Texas in those years; still hasn't, as far as I know. We're so deprived...)
It was a GREAT car for a recent high-school grad; the color was Calypso Coral (red-orange) with a Vermilion (red) interior. You could definitely see me coming. Wasn't worth a darn for reliability--it tended to vapor-lock on hot days, the exhaust tips rusted out, the water pump went, the carb leaked, etc. etc.; I wish it was in my garage right now, though!
So all the manual ratios are equally terrible. It's a wierd trend forcing us to consider six-speeds or automatics to get the spread we need. BMW has used the Getrag 221 ratios for years and a similar rear ratio (many in the 2's) and gotten better performance because of superior engine torque. The LS needs it's lower first gear and a higher top gear. A lower differential ratio with the present first would be better, but it requires a sixth gear or overdrive fifth. I just got my new Car and Driver today and the manual LS was 1.5 seconds slower than the 330i. Rating was last of seven cars despite the highest .84 skidpad showing. VVT may lower the start of the torque curve but still an overdrive is sorely needed. The CTS and LS both miss the opportunity to lower cruise rpm. The new automatic ratios enabled the new T-Bird to use the 3:58 rear instead of the LS 3:31 with V-8. Today I contacted Gear Vendors who make a famous under/overdrive unit that can be used on the tailshaft of a manual tranny. Their factory is only 4 miles from where I live. Their unit would give over a 5:1 reduction in first and about a 600 rpm drop in fifth. Of course, it costs about $2600. A Getrag six-speed costs about $3000 on the street. Adapting it to the LS might be a challenge. I should probably give up and buy a used 540i6. As C&D said in the last sentence " But when the driving stopped and the brakes cooled, there was one clear choice. Live with it". But I won't hand them my money without a fight. I'll give LM one last chance in 2003 to get it right. My lease is up and the G35 will be coming out with a six-speed after the new year. Maybe Nissan will get it right. Lexus blew it with their .85 fifth gear in the IS300.
The 3.0L shares the same block as the 2.5L. Maybe what we have is a stroked 2.5?
Talked to my parts guy. He says for a couple grand ($260 each) we (V6 owners) can put in the SVT Contour cams and build some really nice power. Now, if I can only convince Wifey that the orignal cams were made by Firestone.......
What about VVT AND SVT cams? Maybe a 2003 would be a cheaper way to go after all. I'm certainly considering it. I bet the SVT cams would not give us the low end grunt like VVT will. Hail to 2003!
Maybe I'm a nit-picker, but how do you compare that little three series that I would never buy because of it's dimunitive size to the big and roomy LS? C&D should have picked the 525i and then I wonder how the rankings would have gone. And the Saab as #6? Pleeease! FWD, a tweaky little turboed engine and way too wierd and expensive to maintain. The X-Jag was not impressive but strangely it's Duratec has a Japanese Denso engine-management system rather than our Ford EEC-V. At the current list price of $37,045, I don't consider the Manual LS a great value. I got my 2000 for a bit over $32,000, and I bet if you rescue one from storage on some dealer's lot (mine sat for over 4 months in Orange County), you could get a similar deal on the LS Manual. Any "price killer" stories out there guys?
I'm sure my clients would jump in just to get a ride in this baby! At the price of this ride, It had better have LSD (And I'm sure it will use a Ford 3rd member that has it available - probably an old 8" or 8.8" which is what I wish the LS had). Thanks for the article. The GT40 was a real Bimmer killer.
I own a 2001 LS V6 w/ only 8000 miles on it. I live in Chicago and the temp here is about 28 deegrees. I am having a problem with starting my car in the morning, where it cranks too long before actually turning over. Has anyone else experienced the same problem?
Interesting reading on the development of the suspension and driving dynamics of the 2003 Expedition (and Navigator). It is incredible the amount of work and detail the engineers put into this vehicle. I suspect Jonathan is doing similar work right now on the next LS.
At the end of the above article is information on an interesting 6 Sigma project that Ford is rolling out at all of their plants. The article says the Wixom plant already has it.
"A new end-of-line vibration analysis system first installed at Michigan Truck Plant where Expedition is built and now being rolled out in all Ford Motor Company assembly plants give all drivetrain components a sophisticated final checkup before the vehicle is approved to ship from the factory."
This is a Consumer Driven 6-Sigma quality initiative that already is paying off with quality improvements and reduced customer complaints on current Expedition vehicles.
In the first 10 months of operation, the end-of-line vibration analysis program has reduced consumer complaints by 80 percent."
"For example, the vibration analyzer can spot if a single wheel is improperly balanced. A wheel imbalance can translate into road noise or vibration. The system can also catch an unbalanced or misaligned driveshaft or underinflated tire, among other key areas.
I experience this occasionally in winter. Once a week, on average, takes several seconds of cranking to start it. It's as likely to happen in moderately cold weather as in very cold weather. The dealer checked the car out las winter and found nothing wrong. The mechanic believes it is the blend of gasoline we use here in the winter to reduce air pollution.
But I'd sure take your dealer's opinion over mine.
My wife went to a meeting with our LS, and when she got out it did its no-crank routine and the flashing LED indicator. This is the first time in many months since Laura Hazebrouck led me to the offending connector by the ignition lock. I thought I had gotten the cable connector to make a firm connection, but apparently not quite.
Anna got the escutcheon plate off and got the needle nose pliers out of the toolkit, but she couldn't see the green connector or cable. (I think she didn't quite know what she was looking for, and she neglected to use a flashlight.)
She called me and I went down to where she was stalled (fortunately, only about 5 miles from home) and looked at it. One of the conductors into the green connector had slipped down and apparently wasn't making a complete connection. I used the needle nose pliers and grabbed it and jammed it back into the connector, and voila! The car started right up on the next try.
I'll take it to the dealer and ask them to install a new cable.
At least, when you KNOW what the problem is, you CAN get the car started after it has this problem!
The other day I took My LS to a car wash to spray the bugs off. I used the pressure washer there and a big ol' chunk of paint flew off the bumper. Will this be covered under the warranty? I'm to busy to bring it to the shop this week, so I though I'd ask ya'lls opinon before I contacted my dealership. I bought the car one year ago. Thanks for any and all help.
Hi All: Just wondering. Ive seen a few of the PATS no start issues, and a few of the spinning starter issues here, but they seem to only affect the V8 models. Has anyone on this board with the V6 encountered any of these issues? If not, it seems odd, because I would think the PATS parts and possibly the starter and its associated parts would be the same on both models.
I can't imagine the paint problem not being covered. A car wash sprayer should not be able to dislodge paint. There must have been a defect in the primer coat that caused the paint not to stick. Have them check the rest of the paint as well to see if there are other defects that you haven't found yet.
I agree. New paint should never come off that easily. There must have been something wrong with the initial coating to permit this kind of catastrophic failure to occur. I have seen this happen on older cars that have some rust/pitting which allowed the water to get underneath the paint and blow it off, but it should never happen with new paint.
ronniepooh: I own a '01 V6 and I am encountering the cold start problems. It takes quite a few tries before the engine actually turns over. It has happened almost everyday in the past week. I am bringing it in to the dealer next week. We will have to see what the actual problem is.
When I select the floor-only heat, the windshield fogs up. This is really annoying and dangerous. The only solution is to turn on the defroster and set the temperature to 60 degrees. Therefor, If the outside temperature is below 50 degrees, I can't drive the car.
Does anyone have any suggestions? If I don't tell the dealer exactly what to repair, they will say there is nothing wrong.
slowdriver- I've noticed this car seems more prone to fogging the windshield than any I've owned. Most mornings, unless it's very cold, I nearly always have to use the half-floor/half-defrost setting, and I'm in a dry climate. I've never had to change the temp setting, though. The AC compressor (and dash light) should come on when you switch to either part or full defrost, as long as it's above 32F or so. This will dehumidify the air so it defogs the glass. If this isn't happening, that may be your problem. Another possibility is a dirty cabin air filter. The computer prompts a filter change at 15k mile intervals, IIRC.
Scott, I believe that the computer flags the air filter at 12 months, rather than 15,000 miles. My LS has only 12, 000 miles at this point, but was a year old back in May of 2001. I got a "Change Air Filter" message sometime in May. (and I thought the K&N was good for a million miles !!)
The current MotorTrend on the newsstands wraps up its long-term 2000 LS. Some quibbles, but overall, a very good long-term review, with much positivity. I also glanced at the Car and Driver article comparing 7 manual transmissioned Sport Sedans. As we know, the LS came in dead last. Even though the handling and transmission received exxtrmely high marks, the 210hp of the V6 drew major criticism. Not so much for the engine, but for the task it has at hand at pulling around so much weight. One part of the article goes on to state that the exceptional handling makes up for the "low" hp in "all but the fastest curves on the track", or something like that. Why Lincoln didnt provide them with the 220hp V6 LS (2002 model) is beyond me. It may not have moved the LS up to 1st place, but it would have given it hp and torque numbers closed to mid pack rather than the lowest hp numbers of the group.
Regardless, just goes to show how high the performance bar has been set, and continues to be set. I remember when 210 hp for a car the size of the LS, and 0-60 numbers of 7.4 (or thereabouts) would be exceptional. These days, it barely passes muster, at least to magazine critics.
I think you guys should stop blaming our host for your car problems. I'm reasonably sure that Pat had nothing whatsoever to do with your starting problems and you owe her an apology.
I think that both Scott and Leadfoot are correct. The cabin air filter message is definitely set at 15K mile intervals, but I think it may also be set at some time interval. The owner's manual states that the oil change message will come up at either 5K miles or 180 days (there is no mention of this for the cabin filter, but I know my experience on the cabin filter is 15K miles). There is no message to change the engine air filter whatsoever or the oil filter.
After changing the oil (I experienced this myself the first time I changed my oil) and resetting the oil message, it is easy to accidently reset the cabin air filter message as well. What happens is that you hold the reset button down on the oil message and think that you held it long enough. You let go and the next message that comes up says "If new filter hold reset" so you hold the reset button in again since you also changed the oil filter while changing the oil and think that this is what the car is asking you. This "If new filter hold reset" prompt is for the cabin air filter, not for the oil filter.
One other thing that I found interesting in the manual is that after resetting the oil change message, you can then manually set the percentage left until the next reminder. That way if you are only running 3000 mi. between changes you can set it to 60% so your reminder will come up at the appropriate time.
Due to long magazine lead times, the C&D test was most likely done before the 2002 V-6 Manual was available. I am anxiously awaiting the first test of the 2002 220hp Manual, but I won't hold my breath. BMW may bring out a new model and push the LS road test back another six months. If you read the test carefully, it's apparent that the LS V-6 torque curve is way too high on the rpm scale for the weight of the car. This is a car you have to rev and keep those revs in quite a narrow, elevated range. I think that VVT would help as well as the tried and true stroke/displacement increase. Cubic inches and torque are inseparable. The 330i has it's torque peak quite a bit lower in rpm and I imagine somewhat wider as well. If someone has the specs on the torque characteristics of the similar Jag S engine, please contribute. I haven't seen a test of the S Manual, but according to the issue of Car magazine I read last night at Barnes & Noble, it does exist and was recommended over the V-8 model. This issue listed all the cars available in England, and the Lincoln LS was nowhere to be found. Surprisingly, the 330 they liked was the 330d, a diesel.
My V6 manual will be a year old next month. Right around Mania 3 time. I've got just over 11000 miles right now. Car's been (mostly) wonderful. I can't contribute to the 12 month/15000 mile filter change debate though cause Lincoln doesn't think V6 owners need to know these things - no message center. That would be a needed improvement in the 2003.
I have a question about my climate control system as well. What I found just yesterday was the source of cold air - even with the temp set on 80 degrees or so. I was feeling nice, hot air from all the panel vents, yet I could vaguely feel cold air around my head/shoulders. Found that even when there's hot air coming out of the main vent panels on the dash, there is cold air coming out of the small vents on top of the dash which aim at the door windows. Can anyone check their cars and see if yours has this 'problem'? Thanks.
I think I read that the C&D test had the LS V6 manual at 7.9 or 8 sec 0-60? It must've been tested by a little old lady from somewhere other than Pasadena, cause I'm sure mine can get there quicker than that. I've sorta tried to do it several times myself by counting seconds while running up to about 40 mph in 1st, then quick-shifting into second and I end up counting '7' just as the speedo hits 60 mph. Brian - any chance we can do some slightly more precise 0-60 testing at Mania 3 if more folks are interested?
Lastly, there are lots of great new cars out there now, pushing the bar ever higher. I sincerely hope the 2003 LS can meet or leapfrog some of these competitors like Audi A4/A6, Lexus, CTS, etc and including, of course for reviewers sake, anything from BMW, right down to mountain bikes and little red wagons.
The photo link someone posted to a bra'd 2003 LS was a little disappointing to me. Looked like a 2000. I'm hoping for a bit more 'pizazz' in the car's looks for this redesign. I think an interior redesign is coming too and while the current one garners no real complaints from me, it needs more pizazz too. All IMHO.
Lately my LS (2000 Sport V6 Auto) with feels as if the suspension overall is starting to show its age, but in particular, the rear end. Over rough pavement the car has a tendency to have a bit more lateral movement than I ever recall. At just over 46,000 miles, I'm wondering if there are any other things other than the usual shocks front and rear, that might need attention? E36 (1992-1999?) 3 series BMW's usually had a few common "weak" wear points. Front control arm bushings, lower control arm ball joints, and at the back, shock mounts. These things usually were ripe for replacmenet around 60,000 miles or so, and doing so freshened the cars right back to new.
So, anyone know if the LS has any specific bushings in the suspension that might need careful attention while Im under there crawling around?
YES! And it used to drive me nuts. I seemed to always feel a draft and I cant tell you the number of times Ive run my hand/fingers around the door trying to find out where it was coming from. Finally felt it from that little vent, and actually, Ive just kind of lived with it since then.
I have found that the cleaner you keep the interior glass - the less it will fog.
My 94 Continental was THE worst I've had in regard to interior fogging. The LS is way better. Although I usually just keep it on the Defrost & Floor setting and that takes care of it. I keep the interior temperature setting around 72 degrees F.
- 60 degrees on defrost only - sounds a bit extreme - doesn't that force the air to recirculate at that low of a temp (Like Max A/C setting on previous Lincolns) - maybe the cabin filter is playing a role, too.
Starting:
During the first 10,000 miles or so with my V6 - I would occasionally experience a hard start. (Usually when I was taking someone for a ride for the first time! - how embarrassing) But, it is a rare occurance now - Thankfully!
Hi George. LLSOC will have a couple of metering devices available. One is the GTechPro, which works pretty well and just requires a quick calibration to use, the other is the ExtremeGeez system, which was developed for autocrossers. It will record on a PalmPilot or laptop everything about the car, lateral g force, acceleration, braking, etc, and will graph and save the data.
They will both be at Mania so you can track your times. I figured that would generate some fun comments over dinner that night, especially if the Coneinator lives up to previous billing (sorry stan, couldn't resist!)
Suspension bits: At 46,000 miles you may be running out of shock. I changed my shocks at 60,000 miles and that was too long to wait. You may have a shock that has lost the gas charge like I did. There aren't too many bushings under there to check. The trailing arm linkage has a bushing but everything is sealed.
As a fellow member of the (really small) manual LS contingent, I'd suggest that the biggest current (well, future, really) competition to the LS is the Infiniti G35. As with the Lexus IS300, it'll be introduced with an automatic transmission, with the manual to follow within a year. Assuming that happens, given a year or two for the car to mature, it's priced to compete head-to-head with the LS, and probably won't have so many of the quality issues some of us have endured. Or it may. Hide and watch.
Either way, folks looking for a ~255 hp luxury sedan with RWD and a manual transmission can either buy the G35 or the BMW. That's the whole list -- count all the way to two. If you're willing to endure AWD and a nose-heavy design, Audi enters the picture. Now we're all the way up to three. Two of the three cost $15 - 25K more than the Infiniti (or LS, for that matter, but there's that sticky bit to do with power), so what's a potential buyer to do? Note that to get this kind of power, you need to look at the 540 or A8, not the 530 or A6. Oh, wait, the A8 doesn't come with a manual. . .and here we go again. The 540 is it.
Go with an underpowered domestic vehicle, spend an additional $20K (and endure a certain amount of European maintenance "issues"), or go with the Datsun?
If my experience at the local LM dealer is representative, I can tell you why LS sales are off.
I was the youngest person in the showroom by AT LEAST 20 years when I walked in to look around. Had on my usual off-day attire--sneakers, jeans, parka. Heck, I'd even shaved, which is a big deal on a day I don't have to go to work. So I look at the LS for about 5 minutes and then walk over to a couple of guys sitting at desks and shooting the bull. When I ask if I could take a test drive, they look me over just long enough to indicate they've sized me up as a potential mark and found me wanting before one of them (the fatter one) tells me "Sorry, there isn't anybody available right now." So I look at them just long enough to let them know that I know they're FOS and mutter "Great! A car dealership without any salesmen!" before walking out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the LS supposed to be Lincoln's attempt to lure youngsters like me (late 30's, married, affluent) to their product line? Memo to Mr. Ford: In addition to the LS being about as exciting as a grey flannel suit, your dealer network is killing you.
How low do you think sales of the LS will have to get before Billy kills it off?
Why in the world didn't you ask the receptionist or any other body other than those two dufuses to see the Sales Mgr, or better yet the General Mgr? I sure would have let them know before leaving that they lost a potential sale. How else can the dealerships improve. The two you had are probably content to collect their minimum wage and sit on their fat rears.
The monitor went to zero for my cabin air filter right at 12,000 miles. This was eleven months after purchase and just about a year past the "build" date. I had it changed at that time. After 5 months and 7,500 miles, the monitor now says 51%.
gkarg, absolutely right! I especially noticed a big difference when I quit using Windex in favor of a dedicated auto glass cleaner, in my case Eagle One 20/20.
ronniepooh, I don't doubt Brian's shock suggestion for a minute, but if you've got 46k on the Firehawks they're not helping any. I can hardly exaggerate the difference it made in the overall feel of my car when I changed at 35k. It embarasses me a little that it got so bad without my noticing it. This may contradict my usual praise for the 'Stones, but my current set will be replaced at 30k no matter how good they still may look.
drgonzo, maybe not representative, but all too common. Hope there's another dealer handy. You deserve better, and the car is worth it.
Y'know what, akirby? I was about to say the same thing! Since I have NO idea what you people are talking about, I don't understand why you keep dragging me INTO this! ;->
I'm just kidding, of course - I hope all of you get this starting problem worked out. In the meantime, pay no attention to the Pat behind the curtain. :-)
Comments
No increase in displacement for the V6 (still 3.0). If Lincoln is to add more power it would seem to require VVT or other modifications.
4.2L V8. Since the S-type is coming out early in the year that would mean the LS is using the 3.9L version for some period of time. Did Jag get the .2 increase by increasing the stroke (meaning no block modification) or did they change the bore also? If the block is changed then both versions of the block would have to be made concurrently until Lincoln changes over. Or is it possible that Lincoln will continue with the 3.9 or 4.0 version and Jag will have the 4.2? If so Lincoln could add VVT (essentially having the old Jag version 4.0 with 282 hp).
So, will it be a 4.0L VVT or a 4.2L non-VVT? Or to heck with marketing strategy and go with the same 4.2L VVT as the S-type? If Lincoln is really moving more upscale that would seem to throw away the notion of brand priorities with Jaguar. How about a 3.0 VVT with 240 hp? And a six-speed Getrag? If the engineers cared enough to change the overdive ratio in the 5R55 then why wouldn't they go for the 6-speed if it's available?
And speaking of trannies, the S-type gets a new 6-speed automatic tranny made by ZF. So will the LS get the same 6-speed ZF auto or stick with the 5-speed? Or maybe a 6-speed version of the 5R55?
Just a few questions to ponder until we get the real details on the 2003. I'm sure Brian is having to sit on his hands to keep from typing (with that big evil grin on his face).......
Hmm....Lincoln Motorsports 400 hp LS with your choice of 6-speed automatic or 6-speed manual. With optional LSD of course. That has a nice ring to it!
LS Automatic LS Manual CTS Manual
old new
1st 3.22 3.22 4.23 3.56
2nd 2.41 2.28 2.52 2.04
3rd 1.54 1.54 1.67 1.34
4th 1.00 1.00 1.22 1.00
5th 0.75 0.71 1.00 0.82
Ratio spread 1st overall 5th overall
1st/5th
Auto old 4.293:1 w/3.58 - 11.53:1 w/3.58 - 2.69:1
Auto new 4.535:1 w/3.58 - 11.53:1 w/3.58 - 2.54:1
LS Manual 4.230:1 w/3.07 - 12.99:1 w/3.07 - 3.07:1
CTS Manual 4.341:1 w/3.73 - 13.28:1 w/3.73 - 3.06:1
Conclusions:
The LS manual ratio spread is virtually the same as the old automatic ratios.
The CTS manual has only a 2.6% advantage in ratio spread over the LS manual with only 2.2% of it in 1st gear, insignificanr for all practical purposes.
The new automatic ratios do not give better 1st gear performance, but seem to be aimed at giving lower cruise RPM, and a more even spread between gears
The new automatic 5th ratio gives 17.3% lower cruise RPM than the LS manual - ie: 2346RPM vs. 2000RPM.
There is however a new ZF 6 Speed auto though that is available on all the V6 and V8 S-Types.
Bore: 86.0 mm
Stroke: 90.3 mm
HP: 300 @ 6000
TQ: 310 @ 4100
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is old enough to remember the first time (1965 - in the E-Type) that Jaguar increased the displacement to 4.2 litres . . .
Sorry, Stan!
Compression increases from 10.75:1 to 11.0:1, except for the 400hp 4.2 S/C which is 9.1:1.
In any case, any increase on the LS V8's stroke would increase the low end grunt (low RPM torque) which would be great as my only complaint with the otherwise wonderful 3.9L V8 is that it could use some more low end grunt.
I'd have to guess that no change in the Jag V6's displacement means that the bore or stroke cannot be increased without changing the block, otherwise I'd have to think that Ford / Jag would have already offered a larger displacement version. Wherever I saw some stuff on the new 3.3L V6 I remeber it saying that it was a 2004 or 2005 engine. With all of Ford's problems and staffing cuts I'd imagine that the date could be pushed out futher.
Holy octane, Batman!
Who remembers when you needed Sunoco 260 (100+ octane rating) to run C/R's like this in a street car?
It was a GREAT car for a recent high-school grad; the color was Calypso Coral (red-orange) with a Vermilion (red) interior. You could definitely see me coming.
The new automatic ratios enabled the new T-Bird to use the 3:58 rear instead of the LS 3:31 with V-8.
Today I contacted Gear Vendors who make a famous under/overdrive unit that can be used on the tailshaft of a manual tranny. Their factory is only 4 miles from where I live. Their unit would give over a 5:1 reduction in first and about a 600 rpm drop in fifth. Of course, it costs about $2600. A Getrag six-speed costs about $3000 on the street. Adapting it to the LS might be a challenge.
I should probably give up and buy a used 540i6. As C&D said in the last sentence " But when the driving stopped and the brakes cooled, there was one clear choice. Live with it". But I won't hand them my money without a fight. I'll give LM one last chance in 2003 to get it right. My lease is up and the G35 will be coming out with a six-speed after the new year. Maybe Nissan will get it right. Lexus blew it with their .85 fifth gear in the IS300.
Talked to my parts guy. He says for a couple grand ($260 each) we (V6 owners) can put in the SVT Contour cams and build some really nice power. Now, if I can only convince Wifey that the orignal cams were made by Firestone.......
At the current list price of $37,045, I don't consider the Manual LS a great value. I got my 2000 for a bit over $32,000, and I bet if you rescue one from storage on some dealer's lot (mine sat for over 4 months in Orange County), you could get a similar deal on the LS Manual. Any "price killer" stories out there guys?
Ford is finally going to make your dream car. A GT40 with a 6 speed manual hooked up to 500 ponies. No word yet if it will have a LSD.
http://autoshow2002.carpoint.msn.com/ArticlesFord2.aspx
I wonder if you will be able to show homes in this one? :-)
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=548&press_subsection_id=422&make_id=92
"A new end-of-line vibration analysis system first installed at Michigan Truck Plant where Expedition is built and now being rolled out in all Ford Motor Company assembly plants give all drivetrain components a sophisticated final checkup before the vehicle is approved to ship from the factory."
This is a Consumer Driven 6-Sigma quality initiative that already is paying off with quality improvements and reduced customer complaints on current Expedition vehicles.
In the first 10 months of operation, the end-of-line vibration analysis program has reduced consumer complaints by 80 percent."
"For example, the vibration analyzer can spot if a single wheel is improperly balanced. A wheel imbalance can translate into road noise or vibration. The system can also catch an unbalanced or misaligned driveshaft or underinflated tire, among other key areas.
But I'd sure take your dealer's opinion over mine.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Anna got the escutcheon plate off and got the needle nose pliers out of the toolkit, but she couldn't see the green connector or cable. (I think she didn't quite know what she was looking for, and she neglected to use a flashlight.)
She called me and I went down to where she was stalled (fortunately, only about 5 miles from home) and looked at it. One of the conductors into the green connector had slipped down and apparently wasn't making a complete connection. I used the needle nose pliers and grabbed it and jammed it back into the connector, and voila! The car started right up on the next try.
I'll take it to the dealer and ask them to install a new cable.
At least, when you KNOW what the problem is, you CAN get the car started after it has this problem!
Just wondering. Ive seen a few of the PATS no start issues, and a few of the spinning starter issues here, but they seem to only affect the V8 models. Has anyone on this board with the V6 encountered any of these issues? If not, it seems odd, because I would think the PATS parts and possibly the starter and its associated parts would be the same on both models.
I own a '01 V6 and I am encountering the cold start problems. It takes quite a few tries before the engine actually turns over. It has happened almost everyday in the past week. I am bringing it in to the dealer next week. We will have to see what the actual problem is.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
If I don't tell the dealer exactly what to repair, they will say there is nothing wrong.
Scott
LLSOC Member
Regardless, just goes to show how high the performance bar has been set, and continues to be set. I remember when 210 hp for a car the size of the LS, and 0-60 numbers of 7.4 (or thereabouts) would be exceptional. These days, it barely passes muster, at least to magazine critics.
To each his own.
:-)
After changing the oil (I experienced this myself the first time I changed my oil) and resetting the oil message, it is easy to accidently reset the cabin air filter message as well. What happens is that you hold the reset button down on the oil message and think that you held it long enough. You let go and the next message that comes up says "If new filter hold reset" so you hold the reset button in again since you also changed the oil filter while changing the oil and think that this is what the car is asking you. This "If new filter hold reset" prompt is for the cabin air filter, not for the oil filter.
One other thing that I found interesting in the manual is that after resetting the oil change message, you can then manually set the percentage left until the next reminder. That way if you are only running 3000 mi. between changes you can set it to 60% so your reminder will come up at the appropriate time.
Bruno
LLSOC member
most likely done before the 2002 V-6 Manual was available. I am anxiously awaiting the first test of the 2002 220hp Manual, but I won't hold my breath. BMW may bring out a new model and push the LS road test back another six months.
If you read the test carefully, it's apparent that the LS V-6 torque curve is way too high on the rpm scale for the weight of the car. This is a car you have to rev and keep those revs in quite a narrow, elevated range. I think that VVT would help as well as the tried and true stroke/displacement increase. Cubic inches and torque are inseparable. The 330i has it's torque peak quite a bit lower in rpm and I imagine somewhat wider as well. If someone has the specs on the torque characteristics of the similar Jag S engine, please contribute. I haven't seen a test of the S Manual, but according to the issue of Car magazine I read last night at Barnes & Noble, it does exist and was recommended over the V-8 model. This issue listed all the cars available in England, and the Lincoln LS was nowhere to be found. Surprisingly, the 330 they liked was the 330d, a diesel.
My V6 manual will be a year old next month. Right around Mania 3 time. I've got just over 11000 miles right now. Car's been (mostly) wonderful. I can't contribute to the 12 month/15000 mile filter change debate though cause Lincoln doesn't think V6 owners need to know these things - no message center. That would be a needed improvement in the 2003.
I have a question about my climate control system as well. What I found just yesterday was the source of cold air - even with the temp set on 80 degrees or so. I was feeling nice, hot air from all the panel vents, yet I could vaguely feel cold air around my head/shoulders. Found that even when there's hot air coming out of the main vent panels on the dash, there is cold air coming out of the small vents on top of the dash which aim at the door windows. Can anyone check their cars and see if yours has this 'problem'? Thanks.
I think I read that the C&D test had the LS V6 manual at 7.9 or 8 sec 0-60? It must've been tested by a little old lady from somewhere other than Pasadena, cause I'm sure mine can get there quicker than that. I've sorta tried to do it several times myself by counting seconds while running up to about 40 mph in 1st, then quick-shifting into second and I end up counting '7' just as the speedo hits 60 mph. Brian - any chance we can do some slightly more precise 0-60 testing at Mania 3 if more folks are interested?
Lastly, there are lots of great new cars out there now, pushing the bar ever higher. I sincerely hope the 2003 LS can meet or leapfrog some of these competitors like Audi A4/A6, Lexus, CTS, etc and including, of course for reviewers sake, anything from BMW, right down to mountain bikes and little red wagons.
The photo link someone posted to a bra'd 2003 LS was a little disappointing to me. Looked like a 2000. I'm hoping for a bit more 'pizazz' in the car's looks for this redesign. I think an interior redesign is coming too and while the current one garners no real complaints from me, it needs more pizazz too. All IMHO.
George
So, anyone know if the LS has any specific bushings in the suspension that might need careful attention while Im under there crawling around?
My 94 Continental was THE worst I've had in regard to interior fogging. The LS is way better. Although I usually just keep it on the Defrost & Floor setting and that takes care of it. I keep the interior temperature setting around 72 degrees F.
- 60 degrees on defrost only - sounds a bit extreme - doesn't that force the air to recirculate at that low of a temp (Like Max A/C setting on previous Lincolns) - maybe the cabin filter is playing a role, too.
Starting:
During the first 10,000 miles or so with my V6 - I would occasionally experience a hard start. (Usually when I was taking someone for a ride for the first time! - how embarrassing) But, it is a rare occurance now - Thankfully!
They will both be at Mania so you can track your times. I figured that would generate some fun comments over dinner that night, especially if the Coneinator lives up to previous billing (sorry stan, couldn't resist!)
Suspension bits: At 46,000 miles you may be running out of shock. I changed my shocks at 60,000 miles and that was too long to wait. You may have a shock that has lost the gas charge like I did. There aren't too many bushings under there to check. The trailing arm linkage has a bushing but everything is sealed.
Brian
Either way, folks looking for a ~255 hp luxury sedan with RWD and a manual transmission can either buy the G35 or the BMW. That's the whole list -- count all the way to two. If you're willing to endure AWD and a nose-heavy design, Audi enters the picture. Now we're all the way up to three. Two of the three cost $15 - 25K more than the Infiniti (or LS, for that matter, but there's that sticky bit to do with power), so what's a potential buyer to do? Note that to get this kind of power, you need to look at the 540 or A8, not the 530 or A6. Oh, wait, the A8 doesn't come with a manual. . .and here we go again. The 540 is it.
Go with an underpowered domestic vehicle, spend an additional $20K (and endure a certain amount of European maintenance "issues"), or go with the Datsun?
This should be interesting.
I was the youngest person in the showroom by AT LEAST 20 years when I walked in to look around. Had on my usual off-day attire--sneakers, jeans, parka. Heck, I'd even shaved, which is a big deal on a day I don't have to go to work. So I look at the LS for about 5 minutes and then walk over to a couple of guys sitting at desks and shooting the bull. When I ask if I could take a test drive, they look me over just long enough to indicate they've sized me up as a potential mark and found me wanting before one of them (the fatter one) tells me "Sorry, there isn't anybody available right now." So I look at them just long enough to let them know that I know they're FOS and mutter "Great! A car dealership without any salesmen!" before walking out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the LS supposed to be Lincoln's attempt to lure youngsters like me (late 30's, married, affluent) to their product line? Memo to Mr. Ford: In addition to the LS being about as exciting as a grey flannel suit, your dealer network is killing you.
How low do you think sales of the LS will have to get before Billy kills it off?
ronniepooh, I don't doubt Brian's shock suggestion for a minute, but if you've got 46k on the Firehawks they're not helping any. I can hardly exaggerate the difference it made in the overall feel of my car when I changed at 35k. It embarasses me a little that it got so bad without my noticing it. This may contradict my usual praise for the 'Stones, but my current set will be replaced at 30k no matter how good they still may look.
drgonzo, maybe not representative, but all too common. Hope there's another dealer handy. You deserve better, and the car is worth it.
Scott
LLSOC Member
I'm just kidding, of course - I hope all of you get this starting problem worked out. In the meantime, pay no attention to the Pat behind the curtain. :-)
Pat
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Passive Anti Theft System
or, in layman's terms: keys with computer chips