I had the stall happen on one occasion, several months ago. Since it hasn't recurred, I haven't talked to my dealer about it. Out of curiosity, I perused the TSB list on the NHTSA site, and I ran across something that sounds very interesting. It's under the 2000 LS TSB list, and it's listed as NHTSA item number SB612420, service bulletin number 8221. (Note that I did not find this TSB in the LLSOC list, so I don't know the Ford number.) Here's the summary:
"SOME VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT AN IDLE DIP AFTER MODERATE TO HARD BRAKING. THIS MAY BE DUE TO A MOMENTARY DROP IN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION LINE PRESSURE. LOW FLUID LEVEL OR AN IMPROPERLY SEATED TRANSMISSION FILTER MAY CAUSE THIS MOMENTARY DROP IN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION LINE PRESSURE."
I would never have suspected that it could be trans fluid level-related, but the description sounds very much like what happened to me. After relatively hard braking, the revs dropped, and kept dropping until the engine died. It immediately restarted with no further incident.
This TSB is ONLY listed under the 2000 cars, and mine's a 2001 model, so I don't know if it applies to the later cars or not. At any rate, if you're having this problem with some level of regularity & are taking the car in for diagnosis, you might ask your service department to check the tranny fluid level. There are other TSBs related to trans fluid level checks, so the service tech should have the correct info. (For LLSOC members, Mark gave us a writeup on checking the fluid; it's number 5 in the FAQ section.)
At any rate, this is the first TSB description I've seen that seems to have any relevance to the situation that I experienced, and sounds quite similar to what other owners have described. Maybe this is the answer--or maybe not...
John, the low trans. fluid situation has come up before & it was the problem in a few cases. However, at LS Mania III Jonathan Crocker addressed the issue. A dealer in Chicago was able to duplicate the problem and Lincoln is now in possession of at least that car. They are working on a solution.
You may have read on LLSOC that a number of cars exhibited the stalling condition for the first time (including the one I was driving) upon completion of the autocross course. Each car stalled in the same place and under the same conditions-stopping to pick the time slip.
I've been following the stalling issue, and as a follow-up to drolds1 post, just want to say way to go Lincoln and LLSOC. The stalling issue is significant from a safety perspective, and Lincoln appears to be all over the problem, due in large part to the common experinces of LLSOC members and their ability to communicate the issue to the company.
I've had the RR replaced twice and the LR once, since Feb 2000. So, I've been there and done that!
Before I parked the LS for the winter I remember hearing a familiar "I'm gonna break (or is it brake) sound" from the RR again. I haven't opened it since, because of the rainy/cold spring weather. I will once the weather breaks (or brakes??) and have them BOTH replaced. I also got the old "we only fix the broken one" story everytime mine broke - even when I mentioned the TSB.
Stalling:
Has anyone documented this happening on the V6 models, auto or manual? My V6 has never stalled (that I can remember.)
I am thinking about installing my own Porterfields. I have alway thought Rotors should be turned anytime you replace the brakes. Is this so, or under what condition should I turn the Rotors. Your insight would be appreciated. I am trying to save the Turning the rotors, because my dealer Turned mine 2 weeks after I bought the Car when I had problems with the original brakes and they replaced the pads. If I turn them now I will probably need new front Rotors at 60K miles.
BTW My original Dealership did this Bankston, not my current one Village (Past 1.5 years).
Unless the rotors are damaged or uneven I don't see why you need to have the rotors turned. I'm planning to replace my pads with new ones (maybe the Porterfields) and I wasn't planning to turn the rotors. If it ain't broke - why fix it? As long as they're not too thin (in which case you couldn't turn them again anyway) or causing vibrations then they're fine. If you think back to the pad replacement procedures they don't usually discuss turning the rotors so I think it's definitely optional. I'm sure the brake (break?) repair shops will tell you otherwise because they get more money that way.
For the Porterfields unless your rotors are messed up there is no need to turn them. I checked with Porterfield when I put them on the project car and they told me that the pads are rotor-friendly compared to semi-metallic pads. I haven't had any problems with the brakes since I switched without turning the rotors. Matter of fact, they look even better now than when I had the factory pads on.
My MY02 LS8 Sport w/4000 miles puts out noticeably less brake dust. Barely descernable on the rears and not 10% of the black mess on the wheels that my MY01 LS8 Sport did. Did Lincoln have a running change on the Sport brake pads?
Thanks for the Info. I was asking because I noticed (LLSOC) Ron's Brake Change Procedures did not call for Turning Rotors.
I checked at Lunch and Actually I think I have quite a bit of Pad left Dealer said below 3mm and has to be replaced. I think I have about 1/4 of an inch.. Guess that is about 6 mm.. Will take the wheel off and do a more thorough check this weekend.
For those of you Curious my Dealer Charges $169.00 to replace front brakes. I think I will go with the porterfields and do it myself when the time comes...
(Recall one of my regulators failed over the weekend) The service people at my dealership did not seem too familiar with this problem. The dealer did not have the new regulators in stock on Monday, but got them for Tuesday and replaced both that day without any hassle or question. (I had taken a copy of the TSB with me)
When I replaced my front pads the first time, I did not get the rotors turned, but as I was getting close to having to replace them again, I did start getting a vibration. I ended up just replacing the rotors with some aftermarket Bendix brand (about $60 each) rotors but also had the old ones turned since I was getting the rears turned as well. Turning the rotors only costs about $10 each so I now have 2 spare front rotors just in case I ever need one.
Maybe there was a change, or maybe you're lucky with your '02 Sport the way I've been with my '00. Lots of dust the first couple k miles; little or none since.
re the above posts, a shameless plug for LLSOC and Lincoln: This is icing on the cake of owning and driving a great car. Lincoln doesn't just cooperate with LLSOC, they participate! Their commitment to this car has made me skeptical of my own natural skepticism.
I am getting a strong odor of gasoline fumes when my LS8 is parked in the garage overnight. I have been unable to find any evidence of gasoline leaking on the floor, or under the hood. Can not smell it in car. Dealer is going to check it on Friday. Anyone else experience this problem? If so, what was cause.
I had logged on specifically to ask about turn the rotors and hear I already have my question answered. As a footnote my local tire kingdom told me that my rotors are unturnable and would require brand new rotors when replacing the brakes which is why i logged on tonight because it sounded way to "up selling" of the service to me. I truly appreciate the fluid exchange of knowledge that takes place here. I would ask what the PN#'s are for the front and rear porterfield pads if someone could respond....
I would like to add that I recently replaced the firehawks with the Kumho Supra 712 series tire, 245/45/17, and have noticed a great reduction in road noise and a great increase in traction... a great tire at 100 ea.. Also, I have a very irritating squeaky sounds, almost like crickets, coming from the passengers side behind the driver when riding down semi-bumpy to really bumpy roads and was hoping someone may know what it is coming from. This isnt coming from rolling the window up and down though it is some metal to metal sound that only comes from light to heavy vibration.
Other reasons rotors are turned - -glazing (shininess of the rotor surface). After a while the open-pore structure of the cast iron surface gets "smeared" over by the pad, and the pores get closed up, and the rotor looses its "just turned" matte finish. This reduces braking efficiency. While turning the rotor restores this efficiency loss, the reduction of rotor thickness that results from the turning down causes some loss of braking efficiency as well. I have been told that long, light braking contributes to glazing. -corrosion (rust) outside of the swept area of the rotor; More prominent in northern climes where salting of roads takes place. Rust at the margin of the swept area actually will intrude and get under the edges of the pad, causing chamfering at its edges. Not a real bad thing per se, but as I mentioned earlier this can be a source of pedal pulse, and is easy to cure. When you change the pads and don't turn the rotor, or take time to remove the rust from the rotor, the new pads may be slightly larger than the old ones and ride over these rusty, rough high areas. This might wear a mating ridge into the new pad and not cause a problem, but then again, it might not. Also, your braking distance increases until the pads have had time to "set in". lsismore - was there a reason that your rotors were'nt turnable (ie. their thickness would be under tolerance) or are they damaged?
Have you noticed blue smoke when you first start the car in the morning? Hard to start? If so, some people have had leaky fuel injectors which could be you're problem.
I distinctly remember the LS6 sport at the Cadillac World Challenge a year ago in Dallas kept stalling with almost everyone who drove it. Same deal, the car would lose revs and died after coming out of a corner and braking. I was kind of embarassed for Lincoln at the time. Ray Charter member LLSOC
I distinctly remember the LS6 sport at the Cadillac World Challenge a year ago in Dallas kept stalling with almost everyone who drove it. Same deal, the car would lose revs and died after coming out of a corner and braking. I was kind of embarrassed for Lincoln at the time. I'd be reluctant to have my rotors turned unless they absolutely need it. The surface finish of the newer rotors is almost mirror like compared to the finish of olde. An improper surface finish would decrease braking efficiency.
Has anyone got an occasional single "warning chime" (like when low fuel level is first reached) but everything is OK and no warning message occurs? Has happened to me 4 or 5 times just cruising along.
The Porterfield pads for the LS are not in their online catalog. You have to call them. I don't remember the part #'s offhand, but log on to http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/ to get the phone number. You will be very happy with these pads.
As markls8 asks: are your rotors damaged? otherwise, your suspicions are confirmed; they're handing you a steaming pile of you-know-what. You can machine the rotors on the LS. If you have a Lincoln dealer you trust, check out their price for a brake job. Most are pretty competitive with the independent shops these days on these kinds of services. You might be surprised.
What's the treadwear rating on the Kumhos? I'm under the impression they're relatively soft, but that might come from seeing them advertised for autocross as well as actually seeing them on so many cars at the autocross we attended at LS Mania III.
Jond-I'd suspect you have a problem with the purge canister. Have your dealer check it. Do you pump your own gas? If so, don't top it off, as this can force liquid gasoline into the canister and it's only designed to handle fumes.
I don't know if leaky injectors would cause a smell outside the car before you started it.
Looks like I may have spoken too soon with regards to getting smooth service at my closest Lincoln dealership in reference to my window regulators. Picked up my car yesterday, and they did replace the broken regulator, with I *think* the current, updated regulator. (The part # on the TSB on LLSOC.COM is kind of hard to read). Works fine, although the window closes with a serious "thunk" now, much more so than the other three windows. But thats not the issue. Even after emailing the initial service advisor the link to the TSB (he claims he got the email, although he never replied) on Sunday night, they only replaced the ONE defective regulator. That Service advisor was off when I went to pick up the car last evening, and another helped me. He showed me the invoice which did list two regulator part #'s, left and right, and he assumed both had been replaced. After I got home I carefully looked over the invoice, and it only made reference to labor for replacing the broken one. Went back this am, and the original service advisor and the second service advisor were there. Second one apologized and didnt know why the second regulator part # was listed on the invoice. Both confirmed that only the defective regulator was replaced. First service advisor stated that "we checked Ford's computer and there are NO open TSB's for the LS". I physically showed them the TSB on LLSOC's site (had my laptop with me) and service advisor B wrote down the info, and said he would check with their "warranty administrator" when he/she arrived in this morning. But both seemed to state that they checked their Ford computer, and they could find no TSB for Lincoln LS regulators, and nothing for 01-1-2 (The actual TSB number for the regulators).
Seems like IM not alone in this. Anyone with connections to Lincoln (Brian?) know whats up? How is it that the LLSOC club can have the actual TSB, but the dealerships seem to know nothing of it, and seem to NOT have any reference to it in their "Ford Computers"?
What can be done if they call me back and still totally refute the TSB I showed them?
That's been a known problem since day one. Sometimes a message flashes for a split second - sometimes not. It's some type of internal error condition that corrects itself before the message can be displayed but after the beep has been issued. My guess is it's a communication delay in one of the networks (the LS has multiple 'networks' of components, just like a computer network or SCSI bus). Nothing is direct wired anymore. There's probably a timer and some communication message comes in just after the timer expires. It's nothing to worry about and I don't believe the problem was ever fully diagnosed or fixed.
have been around for as long as the car. No fix that I am aware of, but I got a personal e-mail from JRogers (the former head of the Premium Auto Group at least as far as we are concerned) telling me that they were aware of the problem and that while they were working on it, it did not have any real significance and not to worry about it. I had been worried that it meant there was a real problem and I wasn't being told about it, but here we are, almost three years later and it still does it occasionally after not having done it for over a year. Doesn't seem to be worth worrying about.
The tire do have a short life of only 15K miles but I was willing to take that one in the arm but I am very happy with the performance of them. I Looked at the AVS DB from yokohama but could get them below $160ea. A friend of mine that has the Kumho's on his Lexus and recommeded the Kumho's to me and havent been let down yet after 1500 miles now.
Figured we could count on you to try to get the actual answers.
Update: The first service advisor called me back and stated that "the warranty administrator was able to locate the TSB in the computer." Set me up for an appt tommorow am to replace the other, non-failed regulator. Great.
BUT. Why do we have to go through this? The service guys I dealt with at this dealership *seemed* genuinely upfront and honest, and didnt *appear* to be giving me any B.S. lines. Having me come back only costs Lincoln more money, at least from the cost of the rental Im going to get (again) standpoint. I would think that if ANY LS comes into the shop, and its uder warranty, and it has a failed rear window regulator, Lincoln's dealers should be automatically replacing both. ESPECIALLY if we present them with the TSB# addressing the issue.
It will be interesting to hear what you find out as far as why there *seems* to be some sort of communication gap between Lincoln and their dealerships.
Have a question for anyone. Bought a 2000 new in July '99. Car does not get a lot of use for a variety of unexpected reasons. Very rare anyone in backseat or that either rear window is down. Hence never any trouble. Now, with a little more than a year to go I wonder if fate will deal me a blow AFTER the warranty expires. Should I raise and lower one repeatedly or can I feel safe, knowing that there will be no more rear seat/window usage in the next 3 years ahead? Love the car even though it's a 6, and plan to keep it;but don't want to paint myself into a corner if there's a way not to. In following subject over the years have wondered just how many cars have had the problem, and whether geographic factors such as heat or cold play a part. Will appreciate anyone's input.
I love my Lincoln but the Window Regulator is probably the straw that broke the camel's back. After being in shop multiple times for multiple warranty issues (sometimes more than once on same prob)Ive had it and will probably trade. Again I stress I love the comfort and the ride.
This anomily has been around from day 1. My LS arrived May 1999 and the chime occurred at random times, without any effect on the car or a message on the display. Shortly after I recieved my car, I was driving my LS with a member of the Lincoln Headquarters executive staff and an engineer and the car chimed, so they are aware of the issue.
The random chime appeared to go away after Jim Rodgers replaced my transmission.
Wow! I didn't know Jim Rogers was a Master Mechanic! Just Kidding (I know what you meant). I just got a picture of Jim changing the Tranny. I can hear Mark echo Jonathan's remark at mania I about the car except he would say "What did you do to my Tranny!
Once I got the Mystery Beep and I caught the Message on the display... Said "Lost Communications with Transmission" or something to that extent sounds Scary and Funny at the same Time. I can hear it now with some static in the background " PCM Module calling 55RN do you Copy?" What's your 10-20 there little buddy?. Luckily the Tranny was still there and not on I-635!
I'm havin a bad day anyway, so I'm gonna pop off about the windows etc - again.
"HELLO" "HELLO" "Reality to Lincoln management." Do you really think you can just build it and they will keep coming? If you keep jerkin them around, they're gonna go somewhere else. You darn well better maintain it too.
Course that just went into dead air because apparently NO ONE at Lincoln cept Mark is listening to us anymore.
How long is Lincoln going to let this window regulator thing drag out like this? Is their service information flow so pathetically bad that dealers can't get the proper information? Or is the level of incompetence at the dealer service departments simply unlimited? (That one was rhetorical) Or does Lincoln simply NOT GIVE A HOOT.
And I haven't even been a victim of this yet, but it really gets my goat to hear the hoops people are having to jump thru to get 2 sorry little 50 cent parts replaced. And they may not even get the correct newest part as there apparently was 1 fix that didn't before the newer fix was put out. According to my understanding, my Feb 01 build car has the 2nd design, not the latest and so my turn will probably come. I can hardly wait.
Even though my car is a 2001, my headlamps fogged up while parked outside during real wet weather a while back. So the story that that ailment is completely cured is apparently not true. I experienced total dealer incompetence in getting mine replaced - it took almost 2 months from the first time I reported it as they: -said they needed to order the parts. Would call when they came in. -2 weeks, no call. I call them. No parts had been ordered. -said they needed to order the parts. Would call when they came in. -2 weeks, no call. I call them. No parts have come in. - few days later, they CALLED ME! My parts are in. Wonderful. - I drop car off. It'll be done today they say. -Pick up at 5PM. BUT they only replaced one because the OTHER ONE WAS DAMAGED IN SHIPPING AND I GUESS THEIR INCOMING INSPECTION IS NONEXISTENT UNTIL THEY CAN INCONVENIENCE THE CUSTOMER. -said they needed to order the part. Would call when it came in. -Wait another week for the other one, drop off the car for another day - yeah, they needed it all day to replace the HEADLAMP. - Finally done.
Is this any way to run an airline?
I rather doubt service can be this bad at competitors shops. If anyone can dispute that, or point me to a discussion board that will, I would like that.
Myself and a couple of others have mentioned hearing some form of rattle around the B pillar section when driving over rough roads. Mine has been there for awhile, but has increased in frequency over the past several weeks. I didnt report it to the dealer when I was under warranty (last week) because frankly, Ive never had great success with any car dealer, Lincoln, BMW, VW...correcting nailing a rattle or squeak. Figured it would be a good long-term project for myself. While washing the car tonight I noticed that the looong horizontal black trim that runs the length of the car (the part that is under all doors) moves around quite a bit if you grab it with your entire hand and move it back and forth or up and down. Mine is equally "loose" on both sides. THe rattle I hear is higher up that that, but its possible that the rattle is coming from this, and traveling upwards? Im somewhat doubtful, but still feel if this part needs to be as loose as it feels. The sound Im hearing sounds more and more like the latch assembly in the front drivers side door...the part that actually catches on the jamb. Hmmm. If anyone else has this rattle and has done any troubleshooting, let me know. I think I will move this topic over to somewhere on www.llsoc.com, as it doesnt seem to affect too many of us.
There is no excuse for this! PAG and Lincoln dealers should be bending over backwards to get this fixed. Also cars out of warranty should be fixed free of charge since this problem is an engineering design error from day one! It is time for Bill Ford to join this message board and listen hard the loyal LS owners, before we hop to infinity G35 or some other brand on the next new car purchase.
Thanks Babicka- appreciate the support and concern. Again to all, I love the car. Do feel entitled to "get and enjoy what I paid for." It is no longer a "now you see it,now you don't" world of tire kickers; a latent reminder of that past still is with the service department of local dealer. It is funny to see how he struggles not to BS you. Sometimes I've felt sorry for the guy, and I'm older than he is.
I am hearing an awful rattling noise from the left rear, behind the drive, passenger. Mine sounds more like crickets and to tell you the truth it is driving me nuts cause every little tiny bump in the road makes the noise occur.
I have noticed that the window trim along that back passengers door is what is causing the noise. It seems to be right at the point where the back passenger window, that rolls down, and the piece of glass that doesn't roll down meet at the trim. Just the slightest touch and it squeaks.
If this sounds familiar to you or anyone else please let me know if you have attempted to mute it and whether or not it was successful.
Even on the smoothest of roads it makes the noise. It really sounds like a metal on metal sound.
It is almost painful to drive the bloody thing now. Heck at this point i would sell it for a dollar and buy bus passes just to not have to hear that noise again. These little nuisances are seriously making me consider buying a Japanese or German car in '03 when I replace this LS.
Rattles/squeaks can be VERY annoying. I know the squeak you speak of, but I havent had that type of squeak in the LS, knock on wood. Mine is definitely more of a rattle, and it emanates from the area around the seat belt opening in the B pillar. Ill continue to try to pinpoint the root issue.
Given the level of support Lincoln has demonstrated to the LLSOC and its members, I would be very surprised if Lincoln would not replace any of the earlier design windo regulators at any time, regardless of mileage. It would, however, be nice if they come out with an official statement that says this.
Given the fact that the design of the window regulator is truly flawed, L-M should just issue a recall and be done with it!! You've all heard my concerns about my wife being the primary driver of the car, and where she has to go with this car due to her job, and also how we travel with this car, therefore the security issues as well as the inconvenience.........
Hi guys I am not an LS owner but am very well accquainted with the window regulator issue. The new metal reinforced regulator is currently on all 2002+ models being built from roughly the end of January. I do not want to get into a detailed discussion but a new TSB will be issued as soon as enough parts are stocked in service i.e. hopefully the end of March.
I certainly dont want to "defend" Lincolns side of the regulator issue, but just as a datapoint, probably every other car manufacturer would have handled this situation via a TSB, not through a recall. Just speaking from my experience with similiar issues with BMW and VW. Not to say its right, but sometimes if you the customer arent aware of TSB's and have the "inside" info like we do, your out of luck. Not to beat a dead horse, but my main concern is the seeming lack of communication between Lincoln and the dealerships with regards to whats in the "Ford Computer System". I understand a new regulator TSB is in the works, but a lot of good that may do if Lincoln dealerships "dont show any TSB's for Lincoln in the Ford Computer".
Mark - hoping you can lend some advice here. I've brought my 2000 LS8 (build date 10/99) to my dealer three times in the last year because the Check Advancetrak warning appear displays (and stays on), which I believe disables Advancetrak. Each time I brought it in, the dealer said it was a different problem. Well, it's back again, and I feel I'm getting the runaround. Do you, or has anyone else, experienced this? Any suggestions?
I recieved a letter yesterday informing me that my LS is being recalled to replace the thermostat. The letter says that the current thermostat could stick closed, causing the car to overheat. I do not recall hearing of anyone actually having this problem - I certainly have not.
I wish the recall had been for the regulators! I haven't had that problem either but the warranty will expire soon. Like others have mentioned, if they fail outside of the warranty period, I feel pretty secure that there would be a goodwill adjustment.
For whatever it's worth I thought I'd offer up a suggestion regarding the "squeeks" some folks are experiencing. While I don't have that problem with my LS, I have experienced it with my pickup. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the sound doesn't sound like it would be caused by what I found it to be. Turns out that when the passenger side window was down just a bit or "not hard up against the stops" when closed, the window would rub against the weather stripping in such a manner as to cause the noise. Any body flex at all or wind buffeting against the window would make it worse. You would not think it but this was capable of generating quite a bit of racket. A little silicon spray will fix the problem and if not, the window probably needs adjusting for a better "closed fit".
If you're an LLSOC member, there is a discussion topic that talks about chirpping noises and what one member found. Something about a metal clip that was moving around on bumps.
I spoke today with another Lincoln Engineer at Wixom about the Stalling issue today.
He offered a few very interesting comments. First of all the Fuel Tank has two sides, It also has a fuel transer pump to transfer fuel from one side to the other. There is some concern here though it didn't sound like they were sure what the issue was yet... They are working on it. I told him most of us experienced it during turns. He said this would coincide with the above issue.
Regarding the TSB about Automatic Transmission Fluid level to high. He said he does not believe this is the issue. The reason is this would happen more sporadically, going straight or at a stop (Something to that extent). It kills the Car because it puts pressure on the Torque Converter and thus kills the engine.
He will be following the LLSOC Thread on Stalling. Please Post your experiences or read it as I hope he will ask for everyones input.
Comments
http://www.lincolnvehicles.com/other/interior.asp?sSection=owners&sSubSection=602
"SOME VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT AN IDLE DIP AFTER MODERATE TO HARD BRAKING. THIS MAY BE DUE TO A MOMENTARY DROP IN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION LINE PRESSURE. LOW FLUID LEVEL OR AN IMPROPERLY SEATED TRANSMISSION FILTER MAY CAUSE THIS MOMENTARY DROP IN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION LINE PRESSURE."
I would never have suspected that it could be trans fluid level-related, but the description sounds very much like what happened to me. After relatively hard braking, the revs dropped, and kept dropping until the engine died. It immediately restarted with no further incident.
This TSB is ONLY listed under the 2000 cars, and mine's a 2001 model, so I don't know if it applies to the later cars or not. At any rate, if you're having this problem with some level of regularity & are taking the car in for diagnosis, you might ask your service department to check the tranny fluid level. There are other TSBs related to trans fluid level checks, so the service tech should have the correct info. (For LLSOC members, Mark gave us a writeup on checking the fluid; it's number 5 in the FAQ section.)
At any rate, this is the first TSB description I've seen that seems to have any relevance to the situation that I experienced, and sounds quite similar to what other owners have described. Maybe this is the answer--or maybe not...
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
You may have read on LLSOC that a number of cars exhibited the stalling condition for the first time (including the one I was driving) upon completion of the autocross course. Each car stalled in the same place and under the same conditions-stopping to pick the time slip.
Lets all look forward to a speedy resolution.
I have passed on a few of your Posts from here, and also directed him to the LLSOC Stalling Thread so he can get more insight.
They are working on the issue.
Best Regards,
Victor
I've had the RR replaced twice and the LR once, since Feb 2000. So, I've been there and done that!
Before I parked the LS for the winter I remember hearing a familiar "I'm gonna break (or is it brake) sound" from the RR again. I haven't opened it since, because of the rainy/cold spring weather. I will once the weather breaks (or brakes??) and have them BOTH replaced. I also got the old "we only fix the broken one" story everytime mine broke - even when I mentioned the TSB.
Stalling:
Has anyone documented this happening on the V6 models, auto or manual? My V6 has never stalled (that I can remember.)
BTW My original Dealership did this Bankston, not my current one Village (Past 1.5 years).
I checked at Lunch and Actually I think I have quite a bit of Pad left Dealer said below 3mm and has to be replaced. I think I have about 1/4 of an inch.. Guess that is about 6 mm.. Will take the wheel off and do a more thorough check this weekend.
For those of you Curious my Dealer Charges $169.00 to replace front brakes. I think I will go with the porterfields and do it myself when the time comes...
The service people at my dealership did not seem too familiar with this problem. The dealer did not have the new regulators in stock on Monday, but got them for Tuesday and replaced both that day without any hassle or question. (I had taken a copy of the TSB with me)
Bruno
re the above posts, a shameless plug for LLSOC and Lincoln: This is icing on the cake of owning and driving a great car. Lincoln doesn't just cooperate with LLSOC, they participate! Their commitment to this car has made me skeptical of my own natural skepticism.
Scott
LLSOC Member
I would like to add that I recently replaced the firehawks with the Kumho Supra 712 series tire, 245/45/17, and have noticed a great reduction in road noise and a great increase in traction... a great tire at 100 ea.. Also, I have a very irritating squeaky sounds, almost like crickets, coming from the passengers side behind the driver when riding down semi-bumpy to really bumpy roads and was hoping someone may know what it is coming from. This isnt coming from rolling the window up and down though it is some metal to metal sound that only comes from light to heavy vibration.
Thanks in advance.
-glazing (shininess of the rotor surface). After a while the open-pore structure of the cast iron surface gets "smeared" over by the pad, and the pores get closed up, and the rotor looses its "just turned" matte finish. This reduces braking efficiency. While turning the rotor restores this efficiency loss, the reduction of rotor thickness that results from the turning down causes some loss of braking efficiency as well. I have been told that long, light braking contributes to glazing.
-corrosion (rust) outside of the swept area of the rotor; More prominent in northern climes where salting of roads takes place. Rust at the margin of the swept area actually will intrude and get under the edges of the pad, causing chamfering at its edges. Not a real bad thing per se, but as I mentioned earlier this can be a source of pedal pulse, and is easy to cure.
When you change the pads and don't turn the rotor, or take time to remove the rust from the rotor, the new pads may be slightly larger than the old ones and ride over these rusty, rough high areas. This might wear a mating ridge into the new pad and not cause a problem, but then again, it might not. Also, your braking distance increases until the pads have had time to "set in".
lsismore - was there a reason that your rotors were'nt turnable (ie. their thickness would be under tolerance) or are they damaged?
Same deal, the car would lose revs and died after coming out of a corner and braking.
I was kind of embarassed for Lincoln at the time.
Ray
Charter member LLSOC
Same deal, the car would lose revs and died after coming out of a corner and braking.
I was kind of embarrassed for Lincoln at the time.
I'd be reluctant to have my rotors turned unless they absolutely need it. The surface finish of the newer rotors is almost mirror like compared to the finish of olde. An improper surface finish would decrease braking efficiency.
Ray
Charter member LLSOC
As markls8 asks: are your rotors damaged? otherwise, your suspicions are confirmed; they're handing you a steaming pile of you-know-what. You can machine the rotors on the LS. If you have a Lincoln dealer you trust, check out their price for a brake job. Most are pretty competitive with the independent shops these days on these kinds of services. You might be surprised.
What's the treadwear rating on the Kumhos? I'm under the impression they're relatively soft, but that might come from seeing them advertised for autocross as well as actually seeing them on so many cars at the autocross we attended at LS Mania III.
Jond-I'd suspect you have a problem with the purge canister. Have your dealer check it. Do you pump your own gas? If so, don't top it off, as this can force liquid gasoline into the canister and it's only designed to handle fumes.
I don't know if leaky injectors would cause a smell outside the car before you started it.
Artie
Charter Member-LLSOC
But thats not the issue. Even after emailing the initial service advisor the link to the TSB (he claims he got the email, although he never replied) on Sunday night, they only replaced the ONE defective regulator. That Service advisor was off when I went to pick up the car last evening, and another helped me. He showed me the invoice which did list two regulator part #'s, left and right, and he assumed both had been replaced. After I got home I carefully looked over the invoice, and it only made reference to labor for replacing the broken one. Went back this am, and the original service advisor and the second service advisor were there. Second one apologized and didnt know why the second regulator part # was listed on the invoice. Both confirmed that only the defective regulator was replaced. First service advisor stated that "we checked Ford's computer and there are NO open TSB's for the LS". I physically showed them the TSB on LLSOC's site (had my laptop with me) and service advisor B wrote down the info, and said he would check with their "warranty administrator" when he/she arrived in this morning. But both seemed to state that they checked their Ford computer, and they could find no TSB for Lincoln LS regulators, and nothing for 01-1-2 (The actual TSB number for the regulators).
Seems like IM not alone in this. Anyone with connections to Lincoln (Brian?) know whats up? How is it that the LLSOC club can have the actual TSB, but the dealerships seem to know nothing of it, and seem to NOT have any reference to it in their "Ford Computers"?
What can be done if they call me back and still totally refute the TSB I showed them?
I'm checking with FCSD to get an official answer.
Brian
Update: The first service advisor called me back and stated that "the warranty administrator was able to locate the TSB in the computer." Set me up for an appt tommorow am to replace the other, non-failed regulator. Great.
BUT. Why do we have to go through this? The service guys I dealt with at this dealership *seemed* genuinely upfront and honest, and didnt *appear* to be giving me any B.S. lines. Having me come back only costs Lincoln more money, at least from the cost of the rental Im going to get (again) standpoint. I would think that if ANY LS comes into the shop, and its uder warranty, and it has a failed rear window regulator, Lincoln's dealers should be automatically replacing both. ESPECIALLY if we present them with the TSB# addressing the issue.
It will be interesting to hear what you find out as far as why there *seems* to be some sort of communication gap between Lincoln and their dealerships.
AP599 Rear Pads $79.99
(20% off I believe if LLSOC Member). Savings would Pay for the Membership!
Regards,
Airwolf1000
The random chime appeared to go away after Jim Rodgers replaced my transmission.
Seems not to be a problem.........
Once I got the Mystery Beep and I caught the Message on the display... Said "Lost Communications with Transmission" or something to that extent sounds Scary and Funny at the same Time. I can hear it now with some static in the background " PCM Module calling 55RN do you Copy?" What's your 10-20 there little buddy?. Luckily the Tranny was still there and not on I-635!
Regards,
Victor
"HELLO" "HELLO" "Reality to Lincoln management." Do you really think you can just build it and they will keep coming? If you keep jerkin them around, they're gonna go somewhere else. You darn well better maintain it too.
Course that just went into dead air because apparently NO ONE at Lincoln cept Mark is listening to us anymore.
How long is Lincoln going to let this window regulator thing drag out like this? Is their service information flow so pathetically bad that dealers can't get the proper information? Or is the level of incompetence at the dealer service departments simply unlimited? (That one was rhetorical) Or does Lincoln simply NOT GIVE A HOOT.
And I haven't even been a victim of this yet, but it really gets my goat to hear the hoops people are having to jump thru to get 2 sorry little 50 cent parts replaced. And they may not even get the correct newest part as there apparently was 1 fix that didn't before the newer fix was put out. According to my understanding, my Feb 01 build car has the 2nd design, not the latest and so my turn will probably come. I can hardly wait.
Even though my car is a 2001, my headlamps fogged up while parked outside during real wet weather a while back. So the story that that ailment is completely cured is apparently not true. I experienced total dealer incompetence in getting mine replaced - it took almost 2 months from the first time I reported it as they:
-said they needed to order the parts. Would call when they came in.
-2 weeks, no call. I call them. No parts had been ordered.
-said they needed to order the parts. Would call when they came in.
-2 weeks, no call. I call them. No parts have come in.
- few days later, they CALLED ME! My parts are in. Wonderful.
- I drop car off. It'll be done today they say.
-Pick up at 5PM. BUT they only replaced one because the OTHER ONE WAS DAMAGED IN SHIPPING AND I GUESS THEIR INCOMING INSPECTION IS NONEXISTENT UNTIL THEY CAN INCONVENIENCE THE CUSTOMER.
-said they needed to order the part. Would call when it came in.
-Wait another week for the other one, drop off the car for another day - yeah, they needed it all day to replace the HEADLAMP.
- Finally done.
Is this any way to run an airline?
I rather doubt service can be this bad at competitors shops. If anyone can dispute that, or point me to a discussion board that will, I would like that.
Appreciate your experience. Pray I don't have the same.
I have noticed that the window trim along that back passengers door is what is causing the noise. It seems to be right at the point where the back passenger window, that rolls down, and the piece of glass that doesn't roll down meet at the trim. Just the slightest touch and it squeaks.
If this sounds familiar to you or anyone else please let me know if you have attempted to mute it and whether or not it was successful.
Even on the smoothest of roads it makes the noise. It really sounds like a metal on metal sound.
It is almost painful to drive the bloody thing now. Heck at this point i would sell it for a dollar and buy bus passes just to not have to hear that noise again. These little nuisances are seriously making me consider buying a Japanese or German car in '03 when I replace this LS.
You've all heard my concerns about my wife being the primary driver of the car, and where she has to go with this car due to her job, and also how we travel with this car, therefore the security issues as well as the inconvenience.........
Thanks!!!!
I wish the recall had been for the regulators! I haven't had that problem either but the warranty will expire soon. Like others have mentioned, if they fail outside of the warranty period, I feel pretty secure that there would be a goodwill adjustment.
John
LLSOC Charter member
He offered a few very interesting comments. First of all the Fuel Tank has two sides, It also has a fuel transer pump to transfer fuel from one side to the other. There is some concern here though it didn't sound like they were sure what the issue was yet... They are working on it. I told him most of us experienced it during turns. He said this would coincide with the above issue.
Regarding the TSB about Automatic Transmission Fluid level to high. He said he does not believe this is the issue. The reason is this would happen more sporadically, going straight or at a stop (Something to that extent). It kills the Car because it puts pressure on the Torque Converter and thus kills the engine.
He will be following the LLSOC Thread on Stalling. Please Post your experiences or read it as I hope he will ask for everyones input.
Regards,
Victor