lsismore is correct. SVT can keep the LS competitive. An LS from SVT would also have very good resale value.
The McClaren LS is good news to LS fans, but you can already get a supercharged and lowered LS from SVC for a lot less money.
I testdrove a G35. It's nice, but bland and has no soul. (I did like the perforated leather seats).
A supercharger is not needed to breath life into the LS. More displacement and better breathing are - Displacement and breathing that the Jag S-Type are getting. The Infiniti M45 will be awesome with titanium valves and 340 Hp (without supercharging). That's better than the BMW 540.
Still, to me, the LS has the edge in visual appeal. I am eagerly awaiting news for the 2003 LS, but unless SVT gets busy, the buyers looking for a reasonably priced M5 will be driving an M45.
So if Lincoln came out with a LS supercar would those of you who didn't think Lincoln would ever come out with one and traded in your LS for a G35 or M45, then trade in your G35 or M45 for the new LS?
and it is called a REAR DISC BRAKE PISTON WIND-BACK TOOL KIT which will obviously work on different model brakes since it looks like it has several different adapters in it ($58.47 plus shipping).
A good pair of $10 channel-locks seemed to work just fine for me once I figured out what had to be done.
I think the point is that people are coming up on the time to replace their LS and once they commit to another brand, that puts them out of a future LS for 2-5 years.
That is what Lincoln is missing out on. And then, once out of the brand, who knows whether they come back.
Cadillac is operating in vaporware right now with all their future announcements, but at least people can make an relatively informed choice on whether to wait.
Thanks for looking that. I see the economics behind buying the channel locks now.
I seem to remember seeing a pair that had a rubberized surface for griping finished surfaces. I think I will try to hunt those down and see what the cost difference is.
Re: ls1bmw0
I agree with jhoffman61. I have stuck with ford for a long time but feel that I am at the end of my ford buying days if something tasty doesn't hit the market before I run my 00 lsv6 for one more year. I truly believe that once I depart i may not come back for a long time. Considering the term lengths on loans and leases at least the 3 to 5 the jhoffman1 mentioned.
What's the description of this TSB? Does it authorize replacement of both rear window regulators on early model LSs even if they haven't failed yet? That's what I would HOPE it would authorize, as my 2000 LS V8 sport has not yet experienced a rear window crash, but feel it's probably inevitable.
Thanks for the heads-up Brian, and a bigger thanks to saveri for bringing this to everyone's attention.
My lease is up next month. Good bye LS hello BMW Great board here. If it weren't for peoples problems there wouldnt be half the messages. Good Luck All
and I (for one) have never been more pleased with my purchase. I bought this car new in it's first model year, and have had very, very few problems come up at all. Anyway, I plan to drive this car till my warranty runs out about 40k fun miles from now (8, then get another! (-8
72,000 miles, 6/99 build, 2000 LS V-8. No problems, no concerns. Most definitely the best car I have owned. Planning on the McLaren LS followed by the dream LS.
I had one RR brake light burn out. The car was going in for routine service that week, so I waited to let the dealer handle it. During those couple days, I also got intermittent right rear turn signal failure messages. They replaced the burned out bulb, and also rearranged the wiring harness back there. Apparently there's a lot of wiring jammed into a small space and connections get worked loose or shorted pretty easily. FWIW.
My problem with purchasing my next LS is deciding on the color. I really like my dark satin green, but every time it gets dusty I swear my next one will be white. What a dilemma!
Only 1 debilitating problem with my 2K LS (build date 10/00) in 38K of the most fun filled miles a human should be able to have behind a steering wheel! The window did crash, but as this was a known problem with a supplier, stuff happens. If you think BMW's are more reliable, you should visit the BMW boards. Also, why do they want to get rid of them BEFORE the warranty expires?
FWIW. Why does everyone think that just because Lincoln doesn't advertise their future plans, that they have none? I am very optimistic that the future of the LS is very bright!
Well I have an lsv6 sport, w/ 47k miles, and have had just many little issues. I love my car and am in turmoil over what I will buy next. the one big plus going for my time with the car is the reliability of the service. Well barring the fogged headlights which are now being looked at after a call to the Ford Customer Care 800# those guys a Northgate LM in Tampa are top dollar. If I buy another it will be because of that relationship that I have with them now, regretedly.
I just want a car that won't get its milk money taken on the way to school in the morning if you know what I mean. I truly hope to find an SVT LS on the lot when I make my next purchase.
Wasn't aware of SVC (www.specialvehicles.com). I looked them up and noticed that they have an LSD for the LS. The way it reads, for the V8 and for the V6. Since they're in the upgrade market and not necessarily the kit market, one could probably get just an LSD from them.
Heard a clunck and then started feeling some vibration in the steering wheel and a thumping noise from rear tire area, it would get worse when brakes applied. Found three lug nuts sheared off and the other two were tight. Checked all other wheels and lugs still on and tight. Anyone else experience such happenings? 2000 V8 Sport 27K miles. Since dealer is ~30 miles away and only 2 lugs holding? Calling Roadside assistance to have them tow it to the dealer.
Getting close to needing new tires any recommendations?
Remember, the Infiniti G35 and M45 are 2003 Models. As a Mania III attendee, I can assure you that the 2003 LS will easily hold its own against any other near luxury wanna-bees, whether 2003 or 2004 models. There are a number of new features and enhancements which will please LS enthusiasts and provide sincere regret to former LS owners who prematurely jump ship to rice/kraut burners. Trust me. You will be sorry!
And I am convinced that the dialog here and on the LLSOC Board are a substantial reason that many LS owners concerns and suggestions have "improved the breed" in only the 4th model year.
Since I am sworn to secrecy, please do not visit the Edmund's Home Page and read the 2003 Jag review. Any similarities between new 2003 Jag features and 2003 LS enhancements would, of course, be purely coincedental.
I think the cause of the lug failure, and other possible damage, are bigger worries than driving on two lugs. If it were mine, the tow truck would be on the way.
It's funny how people like to bag on a model that is only 3 years old. The G35 has been around for a while in Japan and is yet another rebadged Nissan. The 5 series, in present form, has been around at least 5 years, The basic inline 6 for at least 10 years. Of course these cars have evolved to what they are today. Give Lincoln a chance to improve! I know the impatient ones can't/won't wait, but 2005 is scheduled to be the first major update. Let's wait until then and see what Lincoln has hiding in that wing with no windows in Irvine.
If you are looking for an entry level luxury sedan forget about the G35. Sure it has 260 hp, but it is only a sports sedan with no luxury or craftsmanship in the interior. The interior doesn't even come close to anything that hints at luxury or craftmanship. The vinyl between the rear seating surfaces are extremely poor quality, the headliner gives and flexes like it is about to fall any minute. The interior is PLASTIC,PLASTIC,AND CHEAP! I was anticipating taking a look at the G35, but I came away turned off by the bland and cheap interior. Yes the accleration and ummp in the engine was nice but I'm more interested in a luxury sports sedan. My advice is decide on what you want and prioritize your wants(i.e. quality, luxury, craftsmanship, engine performance, looks,etc.). Lincoln LS will hold its own against the G35, thats my final take on the G35. I'm holding out on the 2003 LS or the 2003 Jaguar S-Type. Good luck to all in their decisions.
I need a recommendation on brake pads for my 00 LSV6 Sport. I need to get these quick, fast and in a hurry. If someone that has done this work themself could email me at noahpullen@hotmail.com I would greatly appreciate it.
.... but I've been thinking the same thing ever since Mania 3. They may have shown us the V-6 and V-8 models of the '03, but there was defintely something that Jonathan kept hinting at that they obviously didn't show or tell us about.
Maybe something on the lines of what we saw (and got to ride in around the test oval) at Mania 2 but with the '03 body and interior and that will be released shortly after the '03 introduction in the fall.
<<<<My lease is up next month. Good bye LS hello BMW Great board here. If it weren't for peoples problems there wouldnt be half the messages.>>>>
I have 12K miles now on my 2002 LS Sport V8 and no problems......... not one. See ya. Enjoy the BMW along with the higher purchase price for less car and the maint. bills. To each his own but I don't see much difference in LOOKS between a BMW and a Toyota unless you spring for all kinds of wheel and tire options plus a few body panels.
I've decided to put my money where my mouth is and last week we became the proud parents of a 2002 Lincoln Navigator which replaces our 1997 Suburban. It's amazing how quickly a tax refund and proceeds from a boat sale can be spent!
We are now a committed Lincoln family with the LS and the Navigator. Besides being the LLSOC kahuna, I have been very impressed with the customer care and dedication to the brand and to the cars that the Lincoln folks I have dealt with for the club have shown. I continue to be overwhelmed with their service-focused attitude and their positive responses to the problems and questions that we raise here and on LLSOC.
I have no doubt that we will have as many trouble-free miles with the Navigator (which by the way is unbelievably comfortable compared to the Burb) as I do with my LS.
I will be returning my 2000 LS shortly, 6 to 10 attempts to repair simple problems, not to mention the complex problems, is not acceptable. I am tired of being bent over by the dealer.
just wanted to publicly thank you for helping me save $300 on a brake job and plenty of $$ from porterfield as a result of being an LLSOC member. I won't say how much but I can say it pays to be a member for sure.
Also, For those of you searching for the piston wind-back tool I found one at an auto zone that fits a 3/8" socket drive for 9 bucks. Thanks to all of you posters that educated me in advance about this tool as I surely would have gotten frustrated enough to screw this job up without you.
Bravo Zulu to all of you that contribute to educating us owners.
Just got the LS back after a 2 day stay at the shop. The got those bloody crickets out of the door and fixed a misaligned trunk switch that caused my door ajar light to stay on.
I also was in to have them fix the headlights once and for all, the fogging issue many of you have had as well, but since they weren't fogged and could not get them fogged they would not and did not fix them.
So I came home to wash it, because i refuse to let them run it through that awful automated gimmick they have, and as if a gulf fog rolled in the lights fogged up. Tomorrow will be the 4th time that I have to go in for this issue and I am sure it will finally be taken care of but why is it so hard to get something done with these folks. If good ol' Bill Ford expects me to continue to buy his LS he is going to have to doing something that motivates me to do so by way of encouraging the service dept to stop wasting my time & money. As well as the money of all the good folks that will buy the LS and other Lincolns.
I love my car but hate the service. At 50+ dollars a day per visit for car rental and numerous shop hours monkeying over the headlights someone is going to pay for this on the showroom. And I don't want it to be me 10 months from now.
They bad thing is I more than likely will. Sorry for the rant but you guys are great listeners plus my wife doesn't want to hear it. She is pro-BMW and anti-Ford.
Congratulations, Brian & Debbie. Truly fitting Alternative Transportation for the Kahuna family.
So, with all the free time you have on your hands, we should be expecting a report on Project Navigator GT soon, right? Or will that be Debbie's project?
Hinkdog, I think you're right on the money. I got my first close-up look at the G35 yesterday at the NY auto show. Coincidentally, when I posted my first impressions last night on LLSOC, I singled the G35 out for what, I thought, was the decidedly downscale looking interior materials. In particular the IP really looks cheap. To me it looked about on par with the Chevy Malibu I recently rode in.
In the past, the LS has been criticized for for its interior. I find this laughable now after seeing the G35 (& CTS).
Brian & Debbie, good luck with the new addition to your "family."
To everyone who's been touting the G35 before having seen it, you should now do so. Yes, it will spank the LS 0-60-for now anyway- but the luxury/sport sedan thing isn't all about just acceleration. This car just doesn't do it for me at first blush. Just my opinion. Obviously, I can't comment on it's driving dynamics.
Brian and Deb - did you get the required 22" wheels? Every Navi I see nowadays has at least 20" wheels. Of course that could take a tax refund by itself. Just one wheel and tire in that size is like a down payment.
I found one at NAPA. They want $17 for it. All's it is is the plate that engages the piston. The one that Bruno linked to also has the piece that "wedges" the plate between the piston and the opposite side of the caliper. When the piston is fully extended, you need the counter force to twist the piston back in. Been there, done that on our '96 Sable.
In a since, this has been brought up before - the mags can't figure out where to put the LS in caparisons. I don't keep track of the other vendors autos, but I will try to imagine the auto mags thinking.
Place the LS in a Sport Luxury Sedan category (emphasis luxury) - sport handling a win, BUT the ride is harsh, the transmission isn't as smooth, the seats are hard, the trunk is small, the interior isn't quite luxurious enough....
Okay, place the LS in the Luxury Sport Sedan category (emphasis sport) - sport handling wins or ties, interior on par with other vehicles, trunk space on par (ITH though may result in a smaller trunk space rating - no biggy), off-the-line performance - poor. The sport category emphasizes off-the-line performance and rightly so - that is the essence of a sport sedan/car.
So the LS falls into a category by itself, which isn't good as it doesn't get included in car comparisons or rates lower than it should because it is an in-between car.
Reading the AutoWeek McLaren announcement gives some food for thought. The improved intake/exhaust package is for pre-2003 models. Kind of implies that the 2003 V8 model will have this mod already with a resultant 25 added HP.
The 275HP V8 should be good for a 0.4 to 0.5 seconds improvement on 0-60 times. Not only that, the 2nd/5th gear ratio change will insure that non-SST transmissions stay in 2nd through 60MPH which will eliminate the 2nd-to-3rd shift time in 0-60 runs. This will result in a big improvement in testing consistency by various mags.
I agree, but not that it "isn't good". That may be true for magazine writers who try to put it in a certain class for purposes of comparison testing. The LS will always be "less nimble" than the BMW 3-series, for example, but the two cars are not comparable in size or comfort. When the LS is compared to cars of similar price, it outclasses them in luxury and comfort. When compared with cars of similar luxury, it blows them away with performance. When matched against cars with both, it beats them hollow in terms of value. This car is still in a class by itself, and untouchable in the price range.
I need help from those who own a Lincoln LS. I was drawn to this car because of its great results in crash tests. I have yet to test drive one. My husband is hesitant because he worries about the reliability over the long haul of American cars. He leans toward the Avalon. I have read previous posts and many of you seem pleased overall with your vehicles. Is there anything you can tell me, in laymen's terms, that will help me persuade him to give the Lincoln LS a further look? Thank You.
Drive them both. The Avalon is an appliance, point A to point B transportation. The LS is a drivers car. Some complain about the (in the grand scheme of things) little things, but the LS Grin remains. I have 38K on my 2000 V6 LS. I have had a couple things fixed under warranty, to my satisfaction the first time. Due to unpleasant circumstances, I may have quite a bit of extra $$$$$ coming in. If I can work it, I plan on keeping my 2000 and adding a 2003 to my garage. I STILL look for occassions to drive! Just remember, new LS engines are VERY tight and preceived power will increase substantially after about 5K.
If your hubby is an active driver (as opposed to the way most people "drive"), there will be no contest and the LS will steal your heart!
Mike LLSOC Charter Member who STILL can't get the grin off my face.
If your husband is looking at a Toyota Avalon, then I doubt you'll be able to persuade him to consider the LS. These 2 are polar opposites. The LS is a rear-drive, true sport sedan in the European tradition. The Avalon is a front-drive "near luxury" sedan that has no sporting pretensions whatsoever. If your sole criteria is reliability, then the Toyota is probably your best bet. However, know that of late, a nasty engine failure issue has arisen with Toyota V6 engines-as used in the Avalon. Toyota has been treating their customers quite shabbily. Check the other boards on Edmunds.
You can tell your husband that J.D. Power named Lincoln as the most reliable American line of cars after 5 years in service (the measure that really counts). Yes, there were some early build issues, but these have been addressed. In light of improved quality, Consumer Reports now has placed the LS on their "recommended" list-FWIW. With Jac Nasser gone from the helm at Ford, quality has already increased in the first quarter of 2002 & will only continue that trend. You could also tell your husband that the LS has been named one of the 5 safest cars of all time.
If you consider driving as more than a way to get from point A to point B, take that test drive. You will be find out what we're talking about when we mention the "LS grin."
I HAVE OWNED MY 2002 LS FOR LESS THAT 24 HOURS (UNDER 60 MILES) AND THE LEFT TURN SIGNAL INDICATOR STUCK IN THE RIGHT TURN POSITION. THE DEALER STATES THAT A MECHANISM IN THE STEERING COLUMN NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, WHICH IS BEING DONE. IS THIS AN INDICATION OF THINGS TO COME??
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I find it hard to believe that "crash data" would make or break a purchasing decision. However, if it's important in your mind, consider this point. The LS, with it's superior handling, will help you avoid the crash in the first place. To me, and my rather performance oriented, perverse viewpoint, that's far more important that all of the bells and whistles that kick in AFTER you've hit something. I'm now getting the Nomex out of the closet, since I haven't needed it in a while.........
dspice: I doubt it. This unfortunately falls under the category of "s*** happnes". With all the thousands of parts that cars are made from it is inevitable for something to break right out of the door for someone. It seems that you were unfortunate to be the one that something broke on.
The 2002 LS models are certainly coming across as being better build quality than the previous years, though for most people those years weren't slouches in the build quality department.
I know it sucks, but don't stress over it. The dealer will fix it and hopefully that will be the last of your problems for a long time.
dspice: Seems like you CAPS LOCK key is also stuck in the on position! Your computer could fail at any minute! Just Kidding, Sorry but I couldn't resist!
Seriously. Your Turn indicator is a small but very important component, however it is unlikely it is a foreboding of things to come. Actually I have to admit I hardly every see any issues from the 2002 folks on this board. I am a 2000 Owner and felt most of the growing pains. You should be very happy with your car. On an important side note, the Engine is fantastic. And the Transmission on the LS is Reliable. Electrical Issues (Minor). That being said, I doubt you will ever get left stranded by an LS.
Quite the Contrary the LS will wisk you through life and make you happy as a bee.
Point Being---Enjoy your LS, the only American Sports Sedan and very few others in its league.
Speaking of which - I have an appointment tomorrow morning to have the Tranny Flushed at my selling dealer. $127. I didn't think that was too bad. I have 30,000 miles on the clock. Lets hope they don't screw anything up!
I also mentioned the Window TSB to the Service manager and he said that they haven't had to do any of those repairs yet. I find that difficult to believe, seeing as they have probably sold a few LS's being the only Lincoln dealer for miles. (I took mine to a Ford dealer close to work for my window fixes.) At any rate, I believe my LR window is ready to crash, so I have the new TSB number in hand and have already mentioned the potential problem to him.
Tell him this: He will look more attractive in it to younger women as he pulls up to the red light.
My wife hates this car because she knows that women like it but she has nothing to fear as i am dog that never ventures off the front porch.
Does he want to look like a man on the way to work or a hunk on the way to a race?
Thats all the marketing you should need. I hope you get to drive the car though after that kind of propaganda he may not even let you wash it.
It is a fun car has great performance and seems to be able to elude those ticket dispensing maniacs some call law enforcement. Make sure you get the sunroof, I didn't and that is my only cpomplaint about my car.
Brian! An LS and a Navigator! Now that's fillin a 2-car garage with class. What color Nav did u get?
LS reliability vs Avalon: DrOlds is right, these are like apples and oranges. When I bought my LS, there was a couple at the dealer looking at an LS who were also considering an Avalon. They both liked the LS better but were concerned about reliability. Believe it or not, they ended up with an xplorer! To brass tacks: the Avalon will probably be more reliable than the LS. Toyotas have that reputation. But the LS reliability is very good also, it is a safer car and it will be much more fun to drive.
All this talk about poor performance of 220/252 Hp LS V6/V8s vs the competition, mainly a 260HP overpriced Nissan Maxima is getting tiring to me. My opinion is, wait a couple months til the 2003 LSs are announced and see how you feel then.
Finally, IMHO, this board is a great place to get info and opinions on the LS, to praise it's strengths and for some to vent about problems they're having with their car and/or your dealer. BBUT - do you have to complain about the same thing over and over again, even posting the same basic message more than one a day? Enough is enough.
Love the way ezaircon expresses things....."an appliance". I'll expand that and say an appliance with a Maytag reputation.
I too considered the Avalon before buying a used 00 LS8 Sport. Absolutely no regrets. Toyotas are known for their reliability, but the LS seems pretty darn good too.
As much as I liked the idea of the Avalon (nice, dependable car), I couldn't get excited about owning one. I test drove this LS and never looked back.
Toyota has apparently had an engine problem, but in their defense, it seems to impact relatively few vehicles. Biggest problems here are that well deserved reputation for dependability and bullet-proof engines. People who buy Toyotas have HIGH expectations in this regard, and the company's response to the problem also seems to be poor.
In contrast, I don't ever remember hearing of an LS engine failure, and I suspect that due to the nature of the beast (both car and driver), LSs are driven harder.
You may also want to consider fuel economy if you do a lot of stop and go driving. My LS gives me 14 or 15 MPG around town, mid-20s on the highway, and uses premium fuel. Regardless, gas is pretty inexpensive, and the pleasure and pride I enjoy whenever I drive my LS is well worth any additional fuel costs. This car is far more than an appliance.
Isismore - I, too, am retired Navy. Spent my entire career on Destroyers as a Fire Control Tech. My last was the USS Tattnall (DDG19) where I had the privilege of helping defend the Marines assigned to Beirut (1983/1984). It's amazing what 68 pounds of white phosphorus does. The CO called it his Motivator because of its ability to cause those on the receiving end to run away as fast as they could, and ol' Willie Peter was always the first round out. For the uninitiated, WP explosions look like a large 4th of July display and is what movie makers use to create fabulous explosions.
We've had to have our Maytag washer repaired twice. I mentioned to the repair guy that I thought they (Maytag repairman) were bored and lonely. He said "Don't I wish"!
Comments
The McClaren LS is good news to LS fans, but you can already get a supercharged and lowered LS from SVC for a lot less money.
I testdrove a G35. It's nice, but bland and has no soul. (I did like the perforated leather seats).
A supercharger is not needed to breath life into the LS. More displacement and better breathing are - Displacement and breathing that the Jag S-Type are getting. The Infiniti M45 will be awesome with titanium valves and 340 Hp (without supercharging). That's better than the BMW 540.
Still, to me, the LS has the edge in visual appeal. I am eagerly awaiting news for the 2003 LS, but unless SVT gets busy, the buyers looking for a reasonably priced M5 will be driving an M45.
http://www.autopart.com/tools/file/part387.htm
and it is called a REAR DISC BRAKE PISTON WIND-BACK TOOL KIT which will obviously work on different model brakes since it looks like it has several different adapters in it ($58.47 plus shipping).
A good pair of $10 channel-locks seemed to work just fine for me once I figured out what had to be done.
Bruno
LLSOC member
That is what Lincoln is missing out on. And then, once out of the brand, who knows whether they come back.
Cadillac is operating in vaporware right now with all their future announcements, but at least people can make an relatively informed choice on whether to wait.
I seem to remember seeing a pair that had a rubberized surface for griping finished surfaces. I think I will try to hunt those down and see what the cost difference is.
Re: ls1bmw0
I agree with jhoffman61. I have stuck with ford for a long time but feel that I am at the end of my ford buying days if something tasty doesn't hit the market before I run my 00 lsv6 for one more year. I truly believe that once I depart i may not come back for a long time. Considering the term lengths on loans and leases at least the 3 to 5 the jhoffman1 mentioned.
-np
Thanks for the heads-up Brian, and a bigger thanks to saveri for bringing this to everyone's attention.
Great board here. If it weren't for peoples problems there wouldnt be half the messages. Good Luck All
My problem with purchasing my next LS is deciding on the color. I really like my dark satin green, but every time it gets dusty I swear my next one will be white. What a dilemma!
Scott
LLSOC Member
FWIW. Why does everyone think that just because Lincoln doesn't advertise their future plans, that they have none? I am very optimistic that the future of the LS is very bright!
I just want a car that won't get its milk money taken on the way to school in the morning if you know what I mean. I truly hope to find an SVT LS on the lot when I make my next purchase.
-NP
Just a thought....
Getting close to needing new tires any recommendations?
And I am convinced that the dialog here and on the LLSOC Board are a substantial reason that many LS owners concerns and suggestions have "improved the breed" in only the 4th model year.
Since I am sworn to secrecy, please do not visit the Edmund's Home Page and read the 2003 Jag review. Any similarities between new 2003 Jag features and 2003 LS enhancements would, of course, be purely coincedental.
Jerry
24,000 trouble-free miles, 2001 V-8 Sport
or just post it here. TIA
Brian
.... but I've been thinking the same thing ever since Mania 3. They may have shown us the V-6 and V-8 models of the '03, but there was defintely something that Jonathan kept hinting at that they obviously didn't show or tell us about.
Maybe something on the lines of what we saw (and got to ride in around the test oval) at Mania 2 but with the '03 body and interior and that will be released shortly after the '03 introduction in the fall.
Hmmm........
Bruno
LLSOC member
Great board here. If it weren't for peoples problems there wouldnt be half the messages.>>>>
I have 12K miles now on my 2002 LS Sport V8 and no problems......... not one. See ya. Enjoy the BMW along with the higher purchase price for less car and the maint. bills. To each his own but I don't see much difference in LOOKS between a BMW and a Toyota unless you spring for all kinds of wheel and tire options plus a few body panels.
We are now a committed Lincoln family with the LS and the Navigator. Besides being the LLSOC kahuna, I have been very impressed with the customer care and dedication to the brand and to the cars that the Lincoln folks I have dealt with for the club have shown. I continue to be overwhelmed with their service-focused attitude and their positive responses to the problems and questions that we raise here and on LLSOC.
I have no doubt that we will have as many trouble-free miles with the Navigator (which by the way is unbelievably comfortable compared to the Burb) as I do with my LS.
Brian
Also, For those of you searching for the piston wind-back tool I found one at an auto zone that fits a 3/8" socket drive for 9 bucks. Thanks to all of you posters that educated me in advance about this tool as I surely would have gotten frustrated enough to screw this job up without you.
Bravo Zulu to all of you that contribute to educating us owners.
-NP
I also was in to have them fix the headlights once and for all, the fogging issue many of you have had as well, but since they weren't fogged and could not get them fogged they would not and did not fix them.
So I came home to wash it, because i refuse to let them run it through that awful automated gimmick they have, and as if a gulf fog rolled in the lights fogged up. Tomorrow will be the 4th time that I have to go in for this issue and I am sure it will finally be taken care of but why is it so hard to get something done with these folks. If good ol' Bill Ford expects me to continue to buy his LS he is going to have to doing something that motivates me to do so by way of encouraging the service dept to stop wasting my time & money. As well as the money of all the good folks that will buy the LS and other Lincolns.
I love my car but hate the service. At 50+ dollars a day per visit for car rental and numerous shop hours monkeying over the headlights someone is going to pay for this on the showroom. And I don't want it to be me 10 months from now.
They bad thing is I more than likely will. Sorry for the rant but you guys are great listeners plus my wife doesn't want to hear it. She is pro-BMW and anti-Ford.
-np
So, with all the free time you have on your hands, we should be expecting a report on Project Navigator GT soon, right? Or will that be Debbie's project?
In the past, the LS has been criticized for for its interior. I find this laughable now after seeing the G35 (& CTS).
Brian & Debbie, good luck with the new addition to your "family."
To everyone who's been touting the G35 before having seen it, you should now do so. Yes, it will spank the LS 0-60-for now anyway- but the luxury/sport sedan thing isn't all about just acceleration. This car just doesn't do it for me at first blush. Just my opinion. Obviously, I can't comment on it's driving dynamics.
Place the LS in a Sport Luxury Sedan category (emphasis luxury) - sport handling a win, BUT the ride is harsh, the transmission isn't as smooth, the seats are hard, the trunk is small, the interior isn't quite luxurious enough....
Okay, place the LS in the Luxury Sport Sedan category (emphasis sport) - sport handling wins or ties, interior on par with other vehicles, trunk space on par (ITH though may result in a smaller trunk space rating - no biggy), off-the-line performance - poor. The sport category emphasizes off-the-line performance and rightly so - that is the essence of a sport sedan/car.
So the LS falls into a category by itself, which isn't good as it doesn't get included in car comparisons or rates lower than it should because it is an in-between car.
Just my take....
The 275HP V8 should be good for a 0.4 to 0.5 seconds improvement on 0-60 times. Not only that, the 2nd/5th gear ratio change will insure that non-SST transmissions stay in 2nd through 60MPH which will eliminate the 2nd-to-3rd shift time in 0-60 runs. This will result in a big improvement in testing consistency by various mags.
Regards,
Victor
Just my (biased by 44k smilin' miles) opinion.:)
If your hubby is an active driver (as opposed to the way most people "drive"), there will be no contest and the LS will steal your heart!
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member who STILL can't get the grin off my face.
You can tell your husband that J.D. Power named Lincoln as the most reliable American line of cars after 5 years in service (the measure that really counts). Yes, there were some early build issues, but these have been addressed. In light of improved quality, Consumer Reports now has placed the LS on their "recommended" list-FWIW.
With Jac Nasser gone from the helm at Ford, quality has already increased in the first quarter of 2002 & will only continue that trend. You could also tell your husband that the LS has been named one of the 5 safest cars of all time.
If you consider driving as more than a way to get from point A to point B, take that test drive. You will be find out what we're talking about when we mention the "LS grin."
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Artie
Charter Member-LLSOC
The LS, with it's superior handling, will help you avoid the crash in the first place. To me, and my rather performance oriented, perverse viewpoint, that's far more important that all of the bells and whistles that kick in AFTER you've hit something.
I'm now getting the Nomex out of the closet, since I haven't needed it in a while.........
The 2002 LS models are certainly coming across as being better build quality than the previous years, though for most people those years weren't slouches in the build quality department.
I know it sucks, but don't stress over it. The dealer will fix it and hopefully that will be the last of your problems for a long time.
Brian
Seriously. Your Turn indicator is a small but very important component, however it is unlikely it is a foreboding of things to come. Actually I have to admit I hardly every see any issues from the 2002 folks on this board. I am a 2000 Owner and felt most of the growing pains. You should be very happy with your car. On an important side note, the Engine is fantastic. And the Transmission on the LS is Reliable. Electrical Issues (Minor). That being said, I doubt you will ever get left stranded by an LS.
Quite the Contrary the LS will wisk you through life and make you happy as a bee.
Point Being---Enjoy your LS, the only American Sports Sedan and very few others in its league.
Victor
I also mentioned the Window TSB to the Service manager and he said that they haven't had to do any of those repairs yet. I find that difficult to believe, seeing as they have probably sold a few LS's being the only Lincoln dealer for miles. (I took mine to a Ford dealer close to work for my window fixes.) At any rate, I believe my LR window is ready to crash, so I have the new TSB number in hand and have already mentioned the potential problem to him.
-np
My wife hates this car because she knows that women like it but she has nothing to fear as i am dog that never ventures off the front porch.
Does he want to look like a man on the way to work or a hunk on the way to a race?
Thats all the marketing you should need. I hope you get to drive the car though after that kind of propaganda he may not even let you wash it.
It is a fun car has great performance and seems to be able to elude those ticket dispensing maniacs some call law enforcement. Make sure you get the sunroof, I didn't and that is my only cpomplaint about my car.
regards,
noah
LS reliability vs Avalon: DrOlds is right, these are like apples and oranges. When I bought my LS, there was a couple at the dealer looking at an LS who were also considering an Avalon. They both liked the LS better but were concerned about reliability. Believe it or not, they ended up with an xplorer! To brass tacks: the Avalon will probably be more reliable than the LS. Toyotas have that reputation. But the LS reliability is very good also, it is a safer car and it will be much more fun to drive.
All this talk about poor performance of 220/252 Hp LS V6/V8s vs the competition, mainly a 260HP overpriced Nissan Maxima is getting tiring to me. My opinion is, wait a couple months til the 2003 LSs are announced and see how you feel then.
Finally, IMHO, this board is a great place to get info and opinions on the LS, to praise it's strengths and for some to vent about problems they're having with their car and/or your dealer. BBUT - do you have to complain about the same thing over and over again, even posting the same basic message more than one a day? Enough is enough.
I too considered the Avalon before buying a used 00 LS8 Sport. Absolutely no regrets. Toyotas are known for their reliability, but the LS seems pretty darn good too.
As much as I liked the idea of the Avalon (nice, dependable car), I couldn't get excited about owning one. I test drove this LS and never looked back.
Toyota has apparently had an engine problem, but in their defense, it seems to impact relatively few vehicles. Biggest problems here are that well deserved reputation for dependability and bullet-proof engines. People who buy Toyotas have HIGH expectations in this regard, and the company's response to the problem also seems to be poor.
In contrast, I don't ever remember hearing of an LS engine failure, and I suspect that due to the nature of the beast (both car and driver), LSs are driven harder.
You may also want to consider fuel economy if you do a lot of stop and go driving. My LS gives me 14 or 15 MPG around town, mid-20s on the highway, and uses premium fuel. Regardless, gas is pretty inexpensive, and the pleasure and pride I enjoy whenever I drive my LS is well worth any additional fuel costs. This car is far more than an appliance.