Zoom / Zoom says fun. Travel Well makes me think that I'm being taken off to boarding school.
As to your other points I don't have time to check the #'s but I believe that Town Car sales were down about 20% in 2001 all while Mercedes, BMW & Lexus set new sales records.
Finally, see my previous post. 99.9% of people now 55 years old will never be buying a Town Car.
I still remember the launch of the LS. Wood, Adrenaline, Leather. It was the car roll out on CNBC that got me down to the local Lincoln Dealer. I can still hear JR touting the SST transmission and the new high performance V-8. By far the best ad campaign ever for a new car.
JR has his finger on the pulse of the car buyer. This is not just my opinion but that ad campaign received numerous awards in the ad industry as well as the auto industry.
I guess the PC hiring policies of Jacque are finally kicking in. When you level the playing field this is what you get. PC quotas produce mediocrity and bland performance.
Travel Well sounds like a nursing home slogan. I can just see the Next issue of American Luxury.
Maybe they will have articles on walkers and wheel chairs too.
BTW-I live in a age 55+ gated community and the most popular new car here is the Lincoln LS so I don’t buy the TC crowd alienation theory. There must be over 50 LS’s bought here in the last year.
We SHOULD bemoan the options that aren't available on a car in this class. Heck, the POS 4-banger Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge Stratus/Breeze/Cirrus rental that I had in Hawai'i had a fuel computer, outside air temp, compass and a warning advising which door or deck lid was open. Why can a sub $20K appliance have somrthing so rudimentary anymore that I can't even pay for on my $35K LINCOLN? Most of the import FWD appliances have these yet I can't? Would I abandon the LS for that MAJOR oversight? Probably not. Is the lack of even a scaled down message center on the V6 a disservice to 6 owners? You betcha! Come on Lincoln. Check out the competition! Message center available on ALL BMW, Acura TL(S), MB's, Chrysler 300M, Infiniti I35, Lexus ES300 and above (IIRC, the IS300 does too). This omission is burr under my sadle, but I still LOVE driving this car!!!
Mike LLSOC Charter Member and close listener @ Mania3
Suggest you read the Edmund's review of the 1999 TownCar Touring Edition. Handling wasn't as bad as you would imagine, and the car did 0-60 in 8 seconds (est).. The bad news is that the Touring edition may have been discontinued for 2003.
If you downplay a car without ever driving it, how do you expect the BMW/Audi owner (or wanna-be owner) to give the LS a fair shot?
I've never driven the newer TC, but I've been in the back many times and talked to the limo drivers about the car. Vast handling improvement over the older versions, according to them. (One driver actually had the Touring Sedan.) They aren't sport sedans by any means, and if your driving is comprised of a lot of twisting two lane highways, they definitely are not for you. But, for a large sedan, they may handle better than you think.
If you are correct, and only 10 out of 10,000 over 55 year olds buy the TC, where will the development dollars come to keep up or improve the LS? (Better hope those Lincoln SUV's keep selling.)
And, is it fair to compare declining TC sales with all Lexus or BMW sales?
Most families are multi-car families. Wouldn't Lincon love to see a TC (or Navigator) and an LS in those driveways?
The main thing I miss is Jim Rogers participation on this board. I bought my '00 nearly 3 yrs and 25,000 miles ago, only after I saw the engineers and execs from LM participating so openly. Thanks to JR, many dealer problems were fixed. Thanks to Mark, my transmission was "correctly" repaired. Thanks to the many others, I was kept informed. Now I am charged $153 for turning warped rotors that shouldn't have warped, and unable to get the dealer to give me extended coverage on window regulators, even though only 1 was fixed, with the old parts. The open frank answers were what made the LS an even greater buy. I still love my LS, but I miss the "Good Old Days", when the factory folks were encouraged to participate.
I think folks are putting far too much blame on Anne for this new ad slogan. I hate it as much as anyone but that type of thing doesn't come from just one person in such a large corporation. She doesn't deserve all the blame here just like JR didn't deserve all the credit for American Luxury and Wood-Leather-Adrenaline. One person just doesn't have that much power. It would be nice for Anne to explain how the LS will be portrayed as part of this new campaign but I'm not holding my breath. Let's face it - JR spoiled us.
I will apologize in advance for this but LM has to be careful with their degree of catering to the old, affluent group. They are literally a dying breed (my folks are in this group, I'm not being cold hearted just factual). They will not be buying many more cars. I do not think the maturing current population wants to "move up" to Continentals and big Cadillac like past generations did. We want cars like the LS. LM better realize this before we start looking at, and buying, from their competitors.
Ray, there's a distinction between personal attacks and criticizing someone's business acumen or decisions. The reason nothing's been deleted is that there's nothing to delete. As a refresher, go back to our discussion with the 300M group. I couldn't agree with you more and have said so here numerous times in the past; there's no reason for personal attacks in a discussion of this kind.
When I can't express my opinion here (and that's exactly what it is, not fact), then it's time to turn out lights. We obviously don't care for the what's implicit in this new tag line, whether our perceptions of their intentions are correct or not. We have expressed our feelings in no uncertain terms. I don't care if it was solely her idea or not. She's the marketing manager, she's quoted in the article and it's happening on her watch. Who else are we going to vent at? If our outrage is misplaced, then let her get on this board and correct our misconceptions and dispel our fears. Until then, I expect this discussion will continue for a while longer.
If they're going to constantly be hamstrung for fear of alienating their loyal customers, then give it up already. Turn the car over to Mercury Division, which at least has some performance history. It would be just the shot in the arm Mercury could use and IMO, be better suited to the division that's about to unleash the Marauder. I bet Dick Cupka would love to get it back. I bought the LS, not because it's a Lincoln, but for what it represented to me. I'd waited years for an American, RWD, enthusiast sedan to appear at a reasonable price. It did, I bought it. Case closed. I couldn't care less about what nameplate is on it. I had plenty of Mercury's before the LS. I've no problem with the name.
And BTW Ray, how was your trip home? How well did you travel? (Sorry, couldn't resist) You were supposed to report in when you arrived safely. Now I'm going to have tell your mother:)
Jerry: I have driven far too many Town Cars lately. I almost always to get a Town Car loaner when when I take my LS in for service. Last time I asked the service advisor if I could have a LS loaner. He just gave me a strange, puzzled look which seemed so say "What are you complaining about you're getting the top of the line." I hate every second I spend behind the wheel of a TC. Bad seats, Steering that feels like the tie rods are made out of marshmellows.useless cup holders as I could tell by the coffee stains all over the dash, front seat and carpet, touch the brakes and the front end takes a nose dive, the chassis has more shakes and wobbles over a twisty bumpy back road than a 1965 Ford. The engine has some low end but is way too noisy and just seems to die around 4000 RPM. Next time I have my LS in for service I hope they give me a Focus as like my LS it has a lot of Zoom / Zoom and little if any Travel Well.
Well, I don't think it'll go that far, at least I hope Lincoln keeps up the pressure to stay current. I'm keeping an open mind for the ads, even though I really liked the "American Luxury" image, kept the buy American crowd attentive that Lincoln was still there, etc. Just because the new ad exec is female shouldn't prejudice us, I've known quite a few females with right foots made of solid lead on the road. Hopefully she'll run with this well, or as well as she's allowed to do, it's hard to place real blame in big companies, but usually top management is the place to start IME.
Actually, almost all the ads I've seen (and pretty classy looking ones too, but "American Luxury" ads) have been in Metropolitan Home and such. Might be a better bet than advertising in the car rags. Car guys already know about the LS pretty much I think, and are either open minded or so biggoted pro-import it wouldn't matter how much they advertised, and Met Home is geared towards a less retirement aged group than Southern Living, etc. Maybe it's like B&O stereos, they have never advertised in the hobbiest audio rags, only in design and lifestyle mags geared towards well heeled buyers, and it's worked for them pretty well. The audio nerds tend to trash B&O without listening to them, kind of like the BMW vs. LS thing, even though B&O makes some outstanding sounding (but admittedly expensive) equipment. I think they realized they didn't want to play in that kind of game and advertise only in design and other magazines.
OTOH, if the LS is given to Mercury, being a Southerner, owning a _Mercury_ LS might not be so bad...;-)
An advertising slogan nobody likes, so Lincoln is abandoning the LS and those who love her? Anybody else think people here are reading too much into this? If you guys had been this hypersensitive a few months ago when the G-man was still around, you'd all be on medication. And I love the guy who's going to seriously shop another brand next time around because of this ad campaign. Right, buy a car you don't like as well as a Lincoln. That'll show 'em.
And as for Lincoln's involvement with owners, pnewby, you are dead wrong. Ask anybody who was at Mania 2 six months ago or Mania 3 two months ago.
I posted on the Marauder chatbox a while ago that, in my opinion, the LS should have been a Mercury product, not a Lincoln. I think the Aviator also should have been a Merc as well. Then, Ford could put the performance emphasis on the Merc brand and the Luxury emphasis on the Lincoln, including the Navigator.
Entering a Merc dealer and seeing a Merc LS, Merc Marauder, and Merc Aviator performance SUV sitting side by side would be a vision for Ford lovers. (Pontiac seems to be carrying the performance banner for GM.) Then Ford could go back to the days when the buyers started with Fords, graduated to Mercs, and eventually became Lincoln owners.
(normanr2- I'm not sure what age level your referring to with regards to older and affluent, but, with today's population living longer and healthier, even today's 60 year old has two or three new car purchases left in their lifetime. And, not to get into a p*****g contest, I'm not so sure if your generation wants to drive LSs or SUVs. And, also being cold hearted and factual, you really don't know what type of vehicle you'll want when you become old and affluent. (Up to the 90's, at least one of my cars had to be "stick shift", but things change.)
But, unfortunately, Ford is trying to make Lincoln into something it wasn't intended to be. The last time I can remember a Lincoln being noted for performance was way back in the 50's when Lincoln was into road racing.
And now, Ford introduces a gem for those who want large car performance, the Marauder, and prices it too high; 35K msrp plus projected dealer markup of $2,500 to $5,000. Then, they show the Marauder convertible, hint about building it in 2005, and "suggest" a 5K premium over the sedan!
Except for the Marauder convertible, the Mercury/Lincoln display at the recent NY Autoshow didn't appear to be too crowded on the last Saturday, even though three 2003 models were shown- a new TC, Marauder sedan, and Marquis. People were crawling all over the Caddy CTSs and the Infiniti G35s while a beautiful black LSE was just sitting there.
(slunar- Fair enough; you've driven many TC's (not a Touring Sedan) and would never consider owning one. But, as I said in my post, where is Lincoln going to get the dollars to invest in an LS type vehicle if TC sales dwindle?
American car companies put their dollars into trucks because that's what the US market wants. Asian and European car companies put their dollars into cars.
Making Mercury the "Performance" brand for Ford sedans would solve all the problems. Mercury needs the product and the stature. Since there are very few preconceptions as to what Mercury represents to the public, and nothing but confusion surrounding the Lincoln name, this is Ford's opportunity to save Mercury and "clear the deck" of misconceptions. Here's another idea. Since we already have the "twin" concept - Crown Vic vs. Marquis De Sade, Sable vs. Taurus etc, why not put the appliance LSes in the Lincoln corral and put the performance models in the Mercury pen. They would probably have to rename the LS to something else to wear the Mercury name. Too bad a good name like the Marauder will be used on the obsolete Crown Vic chassis. It would be a great name for a reborn performance LS. Imagine a 4.6 DOHC 32 valve "Cobra" LS with Tremec or Getrag 6 speed. It's all possible once the Mercury "LS" gets away from the blue hair and Jag protectors at Lincoln. Open the parts bins! Ford already has the parts. Mercury can leave the crippled stepchild with no toys status, drop the "M" out of LM and add a new division at PAG. And this will cost less than one "Traveling Slow" campaign.
It shined so brightly in the sun until the marketers marked it as done.
The scarlet letter clipped its tail.
All for the sake of the old travelers.
Who just want to "Travel Well".
Anne be sorry for this deed now your flagship is no steed.
hello world, Perception is everything. The folks that will be buying the majority of cars will be the GenXers. When old folks buy a car it is to go to and from the grocery store and the doctors office. Both of which are usually within 10 miles of their homes. They just simply won't be buying that many cars. If Lincoln wants to recapture their reign as a premium fun luxury car, regardless of its origin, they need to get back to the roots. Someone earlier posted the 61-65 was the prime of Lincoln. It is true. I wasn't even born yet, in that era, but the reason I feel in love with lincolns was because of the free spiritedness that those car exhibited back then. I bought my LS to be associated with that feeling.
You need to be awake when at the helm of such an important post within your organization. It isn't too late to drink some coffee and stay up late to rethink how they can appeal to the old infrequent buyers and the youthful just buy a new one generation.
Packv12 can pack sand. We have a forum to voice our opinions and to my knowledge these opinions shape the direction of our product. Of course this is all in fun. As your opinion matters to Packv12.
We're just talking about an advertising slogan here and what it might connote. Let's keep our perspective. I've attended all 3 LS Mania events. The people behind the LS are very talented and enthusiastic. They value our opinions and I daresay, we've perhaps influenced future product. Those of us who have seen the 2003 LS and spent time with the LS team know that the LS's star shines very brightly indeed. It is anything but "done." They showed us a commercial for the 03 LS and it was impressive. Of course, this was PTW (pre travel well).
Why don't you plan to attend LS Mania IV in October so you can see, firsthand, what I'm talking about. You will be a convert. I guarantee it.
A little too much is being made of the lame tag line. What's needed is descent advertising and continuous product improvement/upgrading.
Advertising - the April C&D has an LS ad - a stationary LS with an out-of-focus background and a good caption: "Phew, that was fun." It would be meaningful and catching if the picture was of an SCCA event with an LS at or near the head of the pack. Compare the "standing still" LS ad to:
1) Honda civic - car doors are lying on the parking lot ground as a Civic(!) parks. 2) Nissan Maxima - inverted jet fighter looking at an obviously moving Maxima. 3) Nissan Altima - passenger compartment clutter smashed against the rear window, caption: "May cause avid use of accelerator."
All of these other ads catch the eye an gets the car noticed. It's not tag lines that are important, it's catching the consumer's eye and giving them something they think they want.
The 2003 model isn't out yet so lets not be so hard on Lincoln until after we see what they have come up with for the new model year.
The Town Car isn't a driver's car. The TC is for limo's or people driving other people around. The TC certainly makes for a very comfortable limo (I've taken many a trip to/from JFK in one).
Some have reported having their LS being mistaken for a Conti. Frankly, a full size sedan LS (called a Continental) should be produced. Widen the body by 12 inches, lengthen it by 2 feet, increase rear seat leg room, put in a larger trunk, soften the ride while still using the DEW98 platform (the more parts produced, the less expensive they are), keep a near 50/50 weight distribution and have a family sedan that isn't embarassing or disappointing to drive - a Conti replacement is needed after all.
Let the Mercury Cougar label get the DEW98 platform with a 2 door coupe and 4 door sedan. Let the Cougar focus on performance (with up scale interiors relative to Ford) and let Lincoln focus on "Travelling Well?"
I lurk on this board because my uncle is leasing his second LS and I like to keep him up to date on TSBs and the like(I'd buy his for my work hack when it comes off lease, but he's so tight he squeaks- and will only get a Non-Sport V6 slushbox with NO-repeat-NO options :P). Anyway, I hate to say it, but this whole changing of the guard/"Travel Well" fiasco sounds suspiciously like what LM did just before they pulled the plug on the Merkur brand. I was an enthusiastic owner of a Scorpio and a proud member of the Merkur Owners Club. A couple of Merkur techs gave us access to TSBs and product updates, and one guy even took tech phone calls a couple of Saturdays a month(this was all in the pre-internet-late '80s). We were told we'd see the hot AWD Cosworth version of the Sierra as well as a DOHC V6 Scorpio. Then a funny thing happened. "Our" Merkur exec was transferred to supervise the launch and marketing of the "legendary" FWD Capri roadster. Next thing we knew, the XR4ti was killed so Merkur could "concentrate on the Scorpio". Within a year the Scorpio was also gone. Another similarity: The XR4 and the Scorpio were released to enthusiastic reviews in the US press but after the initial ad blitz? Not much advertising support. We all know Lincoln could build a fine car-I loved my late father's 1986 LSC-but I still think that it is nearly impossible to sell cars that appeal to younger DRIVING enthusiasts side by side with cars bought mainly by AARP foot soldiers. Lincoln isn't alone on this; I stopped by the local Cadillac dealer to see the CTS in the metal(bleccch-it looks like the illegitimate offspring of a Saturn ION and a Chevy Avalanche). As I looked at it(and tried to keep down my breakfast), a steady stream of old men in hats drove in and out in their cabriolet roofed and gold packaged Devilles-at 6.2 mph.
One's thing for sure. The younger buyer probably won't notice the correct grammer .
Talked to an Irvine marketing type at my dealer today. I am squarely on Brian's side. Wait and see and I'm sure we all will be surprised. I was also told a thing or two about the future. I was not told to keep quiet, but will in the truest of LLSOC fashion.
Well I have to register my disappointment with the new slogan as well. I wonder which "customers" told them they liked the new one? I really really doubt it was anyone in my age group...
As for spinning LM out of PAG, I have to wonder if they'll move out of that fancy building in Irvine to back home where they belong - in Detroit. And either we'll be able to inherit the 4.2L engine because there will be less positioning between Lincoln and Jag, or we're going to see a greater divergence in the parts (read: engines and trannys) between the two cars. I'm actually not sure which would be better for us, from a performance standpoint.
I talked to the people at Lincoln yesterday before I made the post.
Here is the response from a high-ranking executive at Lincoln who intimately knows the ad campaign.
"But I've seen the ads and they are pretty cool. Young, hip, good music, lively. The comments are coming from people who haven't seen the ads and don't know what they are talking about -- of course, since they haven't seen the ads. Everyone is wasting their time trying to comment on something they haven't seen, based on an Automotive News story. It's sort of like judging the next album by Nickleback by the title of the album, if you know what I mean, that received on review in an industry magazine. Wait until you see the ads before judging is what I say! Feel free to use my comments, if you like, as you talk with these folks."
I have to agree that "Travel Well" is about as limpid and uninspiring a tag line as anybody could find, but frankly, I've never been impressed by most Lincoln LS advertising.
Practically all the Lincoln LS ads I've ever seen have been etherial fuzzy head-in-the-clouds fluff with very little important content. If CU hadn't said it was the best American car, and best HANDLING American car they'd ever tested (which floored me), I'd never have gone for a test drive in the first place. Once I drove it, I realized "THIS IS GOOD!" and we bought one.
For people who probably hate what people assume when you tell them you bought a 4-door lincoln, there are an awful lot of assumptions being made here. One of the great things about this forum has been how we have been able to keep on topic and to the facts. As much as I hate the CTS, I think the Cadillac advertising and lack of a Lincoln response is getting to us.
After reading the weekend posts and wondering if everyone had been drinking from the "my LS is wonderful" kool-aid, it sure turned around quickly !
Advertising is about convincing people. I am sure there are tag lines or phrases from commercials that we first thought were stupid but later were persuaded that they had meaning and value-probably by the visuals. The Mania III ads that were shown got a very good reception from the crowd, I can't believe the tag line is going to change that opinion. As a matter of fact, the tag line may have appeared for all I can recall.
This tag line is in keeping with the Gerry McGovern idea for Lincoln. Perhaps people should be pointing in that direction. It goes well with the Lincoln icon collection. I sure hope they haven't sold out of those cuff links...;-)
As someone said, the tag line can be made to cover both an enthusiast driver and a "traditional" Lincoln pilot. Multi-hour,1000 mile days with no back problems from the wonderful LS seats could be considered "travelling well". Do not discount the influence of passengers on your opinion of a vehicle, otherwise a lot of us would be driving a Mustang or Corvette.
So Mike says: "Stan, what a GREAT idea! I was thinking of many roads on which I'd like to take Anne for a ride!" referring to: "Traveling Well (by stanny1) is taking an LS around the Solo 2 course at Fontana with Anne in the back seat without a seat belt."
And now because of "insider information", you say, "I am squarely on Brian's side. Wait and see and I'm sure we all will be surprised."
Whew! A politician could not have done an about-face any better!
But you gotta know that it is crazy to "leak" negative information. If Lincoln is reserving the "good stuff" for later, why oh why would they publicly release probably the most mundane tag line of recent memory?
It would STILL be nice to have a Lincoln rep chime in here. I cannot see what they have to lose.
PS. Also, Lets get it right guys. The proper phrase is "pounding sand"! not packing it! If you're gonna be rude, ya gotta get it right! :)
I have never understood advertising. Which is why I shop the product not the ads. I know someone else has said that to. Hmmm, words of wisdom.
Take using celebrities to pimp your product. Why! I don't rush right out and buy whatever it is they sold their likeness to. I buy based on value, now some of you might not be able to recognize that on your own and use such ads to make your purchasing decisions. Can you see how your rants about a silly ad really don't do anything for the product. You are after the wrong facet of the business. My awful poem and rhtorical opinions are just that. The rudeness started way before I interjected my 2 cents and will contiune well beyond my LS buying years. And remember there is more than one way to skin a cat. pack that where you want to.
as far as anonymity goes, just click my nick and you'll see who I am. I'll be back when the topics swing to something more meaningful. Also, I am selling a book of poems dedicated to the Travel Well ad look for it in stores near you. FOR THE CRITICS. follow this link http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bushaxe/page2.html go to the end and you will see. that yes there is more than one way to skin a cat. pack sand means go pack sand. it is a mundane task. that is all.
Well after 3 adventerous trips to the sevice center and a phone call to the Ford Customer Service line, which really didn't help at all, the lights have been replaced.
I was almost fooled in to believing that the Cust Serv center was an owners advocate. I ended up in more red tape then I wanted after calling them. Had the dealer, NOrthgate LM Tampa, Fl, not made the command decision to change them out I would still be driving with the san fran fog at the front of my car.
I have been through some hard times with my service shop but I have always found that they eventually correct the issue. I had give some great consideration to going to another shop for service but I can honestly say that I trust my service advisor and I know that he will do the right thing. If you live in Tampa stop by and say hi to Chris. Tell him Noah sent you and chat with him a little about what pains your LS. 10 dollars to a doughtnut he can help.
I STILL want to take Anne for that white-knuckle ride and think the tag line won't appeal to the under 35 buyer. I STILL think "American Luxury" is a much more defining tag line. And I do like "American Luxury, Lincoln Performance". After my discussion with that suit yesterday, I understand better the implementation of the line. I believe jhoffman61 is correct and we (Mania III attendees) most likely already saw the ads. That is why I am taking a more wait-and-see posture. I think, too, that we suffer from the LACK of advertising we actually see. I don't remember the last time I saw a dedicated LS ad. I know Lincoln sells other cars and needs to advertise for them too. I have seen quite a few Navigator ads. I can count on one hand how many LSes I see in a week. I CAN'T count how many Navigators and Town Cars (not counting the limos) I see.
On a more LS note, mine had to spend the night at my dealers last night . My A/C compressor fried it's bearing. The part ordered was missing the clutch, even though the box said it was included. Oh well, at least I got a Park Avenue as a rental. Man, I sure hope they get the clutch this morning!
Just Wanted to remind all the Dallas/Fort Worth LS Enthusiast, the first get together will be tonight at 7:30 P.M. Where? Humperdinks at the intersection of I-35 and Northwest Highway(Next to the AMC Grand Theatre). The full address is 2208 W Northwest Hwy,Dallas,TX 75220. Their Phone Number is (214) 358-4159. We will me in the bar. Look for the Guy with the Black LLSOC Cap.
I have heard that running the A/C can be a performance hit when trying to accelerate. But I have also heard that there are A/C systems that don't impact performance. Can anyone provide a final answer for that?
Wasn't there a rumor floating around about a larger LS using the same platform?
So, keep the Lincoln LS name for the bigger version (LS=Luxury Sport) and (assuming Mercury's still hot on retro names) give the present LS to Mercury as a Mercury Cyclone. (Just keep far away from the Mercury Comet or Turnpike Cruiser names.) Give Mercury the rumored coupe, also.
Then, all those who want to stay with a Ford product, but don't want the TC, could graduate from the Merc version to the Lincoln version as they become more affluent and mature (age). Natural progression.
Put the Jag powerplant in the Merc versions so that Jaguar doesn't get ticked off about a Ford family luxury car performing better than the Jag luxury car.
You're all complaining about no one responding from Lincoln and I go ahead and post a response from someone who reports to Brian Kelly about the ad campaign, and you all still complain. Why can't you give Lincoln a break? Every time information isn't to your liking you automatically take the negative attititude that Lincoln doesn't have a clue about what their doing, they're abandoning the LS, there's no Lincoln involvement on the board, and on and on.
You don't like what Lincoln is doing? Buy something else. But at least give them a fair chance. Even with all the quote insipid unquote LS advertising we all still bought the car. And we all still like driving it. And whether we like it or not Lincoln is about more than the LS. The LS is the most expensive car Lincoln produces and it will keep being that way for a long time.
This frustrates me to no end. Yes I am slanted toward Lincoln and the LS very heavily. No I don't get paid by Lincoln to be committed to them. I do it because I believe in the car and the company. Everything that I've seen and everyone I've talked to at Lincoln points me to having confidence in the future of the LS and the future of the brand. But, geez, talk about an uphill battle with everyone. Every time the trend is positive on this board (reference point, look back over last weeks posts) it's as though no one can stand to just be happy about the car and the company. Talk about an underdog mentality that Lincoln has to put up with.
You say there is no Lincoln participation on this board? How do you think I know the information that I pass on to you? I don't pull it out of 15 periodicals that I read or look at whatever dusty reference manual will support my viewpoint. I get it from talking directly with the people at Lincoln. And to a person they have wholeheartedly welcomed my involvement and have passed along information that they really didn't need to do to help us stay informed.
An ad or an ad campaign does not make the car. If you are that easily swayed to make a purchase, then the advertising geniuses must have a field day with you. Your pantry must be filled with Budweiser beer, you eat Jack-in-the-box hamburgers 7 days a week, and you use Charmin because it has quilted layers. Oh and you call Miss Cleo and the Psychic Friends Network constantly because she really is a true psychic.
You can keep thinking what you like about Lincoln. Meanwhile I already have my reservation in for what's coming up.
P.S. Yes I know my first post on this subject was a tag line from another company. It was done intentionally.
P.P.S. Appears that early reports of the Blackwood's demise were exaggerated (to borrow an older gentleman's line)
I think you may have missed the point about the ad campaign.
LS users are griping because they feel that potential buyers not interested in the LS or not participating in the chatbox may not get the correct impression about Lincoln and the car from the new slogan.
Good advertising equals better sales equals product improvement equals product longevity. Advertising does make a difference, especially to those who know nothing about a product. (Why else are advertisers buying TV time on TV shows like the SuperBowl and Friends? I don't think their ultimate goal is to make the cast of Friends multimillionaires, do you?)
Travel well, Zoom Zoom, American Luxury, whatever, don't mean didley to me. The image is what counts, not the slogan.
I've been holding out for the Marauder, but, based on Marauder pricing, I'm now leaning towards the Jag S (2003). However, I will hold off until the 2003 LS is announced before I make a decision, assuming Mercury doesn't smarten up in the meantime.
No I'm not missing the point. I understand what people are saying. All I've been trying topoint out is that no one has seen any of the commercials yet to be able to make an objective and knowledgeable decision on the ad campaign. True or False?
I just feel that until the time that we can see the commercials it is unfair to judge them based on an article in a periodical that just talks about the overall image, not specifics. And while I agree that Zoom, Zoom is a cute ad campaign (my 4 year-old is driving me nuts singing the zoom-zoom song) it isn't going to make me buy a Mazda or change my impression about the company. Any more than believing that BMW makes the "Ultimate Driving Machine". But then again I've never bought into commercials as being the definition of a product either. So I may be in the minority, especially since I don't watch that much TV.
Man we need to keep it down in here. Bottom Line is it sounds like we feel left out.. We should actually be happy that we are privy to alot of information and direct access.
Maybe there does need to be a Lincoln Liasion on the board. An Ari Fleischer if you will for the Daily Briefings with a Q and A! Maybe not.
No seriously we do need to back off guys/gals. They have produced the LS and we have seen what is to come. Some ad slogan isn't gonna kill us off. Even though we don't necessarily like what it says about us. Truth of the matter is I do Travel Well in my LS...
Something as simple as a lame tag line can set the tone for the whole product line. Let's face it Lincoln's image is "Old Fartmobile for people who know nothing about cars". A lame tag line can ruin an otherwise hip commercial.
In spite of my rants, I have been out on the street trying to sell the LS to my friends and acquaintances, because I belive that it is that good a car. I used to get upset at the reaction I receive when I told someone I drove a Lincoln, you know the rolling eyes and the glazed over look that says , "I am now completely tuned out as no Lincoln driver has any car credibility." Now I just accept those sort of reactions as part of Traveling Well in an un-cool brand.
I have given my keys to my LS to several FWD appliance drivers and to them feel the LS experience. The results so far:
1st one: Former Olds loyalest, finally believed that there was difference in cars, looked a bunch of stuff (no Lincolns) and bought a Jag S -type.
2nd one: Former Taurus driver, got all excited about a luxury performance sedan, looked at Lexus, Mercedes and BMW, bought a 5 Series. Never even considered Lincoln.
3rd one: Decided to treat himself, bought a Mercedes E class, never considered Lincoln.
Lincoln's image (like Cadillac) is it's what you buy after you retire so you can putter around and have a nice soft ride to Florida every winter.
Although the Detroit news article is encouraging, and I am further encouraged that Lincoln had the sense to put the 300 HP DOHC engine in the Aviator I am still afraid that inside Lincoln there is a daily battle between the old Lincoln and what could be the new Lincoln and the old is still calling the shots.
As someone who has had one "orphan" car in my family's past (Nissan 240SX), and now facing another in the near future (Camaro), I can sort of see why some of the folks here are a little "nervous" about this new ad campaign. My wife and I both like our LS very much, and want to see the car continued for a long time. I, as the "car guy" in the family, have observed how advertising can impact sales, both positively and negatively. A few years back, GM says that Camaro sales are slipping. The loyal enthusiasts counter by saying, "Have you seen a Camaro ad campaign lately?" A couple of years later, GM says they're dropping the car due to lack of sales. Car enthusiasts see a correlation in this, and the possibity that this might happen to the LS, and get worried. We've also seen how compaines sometimes just don't give a product a chance, and if the projected sales aren't there, they're quick to pull the plug. I think that Jerry makes a good point, that sales equals dollars, equals more R&D, which equals a better product. A better LS is something that we'd all enjoy, far more than another "orphan". IMHO a lot of us were quick to jump on the "Drive Well" band wagon, because we feel the LS is a real drivers' car, and L-M doesn't seem to be capitalizing on this. After all, we're "gearheads", and don't want to see our toy boxes thinned out.
i'm a lurker and i don't own an ls...i like to follow the 300m and ls boards because these two cars are high on my short list for ownership...having said that i feel compelled to offer this humbling observation for the ls...i live in a small town, where german hardware and volvo station wagons reign supreme, that has a lincoln/jaguar/mercury dealership...in the two years roughly of the ls's introduction i have seen maybe three lss' in town....okay not very scientific i know...however...there is also a bmw dealership in town and you know the rest... this is a shame...i went and checked out the ls and it's gorgeous inside and out...but one has to wonder: how long will ford go before they won't wait any longer to see some real growth in the ls's sales. as far as the argument goes regarding the tug of war between retaining the older customers and the younger set, i think that lincoln can and should cater to both segments...i am a believer in the x and y gens coming around to wanting a different type of ride when they're in their 50's or 60's...people's taste change and the car companies must cover alot of bases with only so much product...also we're talking about a country of 220 ? million folks...that's alot of diversity...the article in the nytimes last week used a small east texas town as an example: the used car lot had three cars for sale out of hundreds of trucks...virtually the entire town drove pickups and it wasn't a farm town...that's just what that neck of the woods wants...lincoln can try as hard as they can to compete with the upper end of the luxury car market but it will take a long time and alot of money and committment.
Even if you don't watch a lot of TV, we all listen to the radio, read the newspapers, read magazines, notice billboards, etc. Advertising is everywhere. On t-shirts, sneakers, etc. Even McDonald's Golden Arches are a form of advertising.
You said it perfectly in your post 8337. "but at least give them a fair chance".
To get a fair chance, Lincoln has to inform the market that the product exists. Advertising alone will not sell a product, but it will help to get your interest especailly if you're in the market. ($10 bucks says you know what soft drink uses Brittney Spears in their commercials and the car company that uses Tiger Woods as a spokesperson.) Maybe you will not buy the product, but you noticed the commercial. That's what advertising does.
"Travel well" could very well be a good slogan for a company that makes other products besides a sport sedan. As jgranata said above, there's 220 million people out there, and not all buyers want an LS type vehicle. Lincoln's offering products for SUV and luxury sedan and sports sedan buyers. The slogan has to cover all bases.
The real message will be in the wording or visual image that backs up the slogan. You can bet each commercial will be tailored for that particular product and market.
Some people wouldn't be caught dead owning a TC; I wouldn't be caught dead owning an SUV. Different strokes.........
Remember the first LS ads? I think they even won some awards for it. It morphed from a castle to a chess set on a train, etc. What do you remember about that commercial? I remember "Wood. Leather. Adrenaline." I don't even remember the "American Luxury" tag line (if it was there at all). Like Brian said - at least wait until you actually see the ads. Then if you don't like them you have a legitimate gripe. Right now it's sheer speculation and I think Lincoln deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Quote: The LS is by far the best handling luxury car to emerge from Detroit in many years, but its impact has been muted because of its derivative styling and plain interior design. In terms of adding some chutzpah to Lincoln's image, respected Detroit engineering firm McLaren Performance Technologies, has produced its own version of the LS, with a 350bhp supercharged engine and appropriate suspension modifications. McLaren will be offering its LSE this summer, for as much as $18,000 over the LS standard price, depending on chosen options. But down the road Lincoln needs to develop a high-performance sports car flagship, an image booster like Cadillac's V12 Cien concept. Lincoln Mercury President Brian Kelley acknowledges the need. "We are aware of the Cien," he says, "and are looking at doing our own high-end sports coupe."
I say: I really enjoy driving my car (2K LS8 Sport)more every day. If allowed to grow the LS marque and create a heritage they and we will really have something here! The possibilities are limitless. And they have no shortage of talent to get the job done.
I can only imagine what Jerry Mac is going to do to combat that "derivative styling" assessment while maintaining that "Lincoln DNA" thing?!
This may be off subject but still interesting. Thursday I got my XMSR installed in my 2002 LS manual. In south Florida local radio is the pits and XMSR is the remedy. If any of you spend time commuting etc., I am here to tell you XMSR is the nuts! 100 channels of music and news (CNBC included). If you are not familiar with XMSR check out their web site xmsr.com.
Hey what producty did you go with and how does it interface with the OEM installed audio system.
Also, Does anyone know if there is a way to get the headlights to come on when the wipers are activated by rain? In Florida it is state law that the headlights must be on when the wipers are running due to rain. Problem is sometimes it rains in the day time, liquid sunshine as we call it here, and the headlights do not turn on automatically. If anyone has a solution I sure would love to hear it.
Having attended Mania 3 (as well as 1 & 2, for that matter), I did see a few of the upcoming TV ads they intended to run in conjunction with the upcoming '03 release. Make no mistake, these were great TV spots that will attract attention and show the LS in the light we would all like. Unfortunately, the "Travel Well" tag line wasn't shared with us. I realize that Lincoln doesn't (and probably shouldn't) consult the LLSOC regularly on EVERY business decision that they make, particularly when it comes to promoting their entire product line-up. However, I think the good folks at Lincoln REALLY MISSED when they bought-off (approved, conceived, whatever) on the "Travel Well" tag line. This tag line does more than leave me cold, it's a down-right lame phrase that does nothing to describe the "LS Experience" or appeal to market segment Lincoln themselves sought when they brought the LS to market.
I've got to believe that new personnel (i.e., since the LS launch) in key Lincoln positions weren't personally apart of the LS launch, and have no idea how to handle the target audience their predecessor's successfully reached when the LS first hit the streets. To me, the "Travel Well" tag line seems to be right in step with the Lincoln of old, and a complete betrayal of the image they created (at least in my mind). Personally, I'm not pleased with this tag line, and even if the TV and print ads specific to the LS are good, there will be still be an association with this awfully lame "Travel Well" phrase.
Hey, I may be 40 now, but I still don't need geritol yet; though the "Travel Well" phrase might make me think otherwise. :-P
Comments
Zoom / Zoom says fun. Travel Well makes me think that I'm being taken off to boarding school.
As to your other points I don't have time to check the #'s but I believe that Town Car sales were down about 20% in 2001 all while Mercedes, BMW & Lexus set new sales records.
Finally, see my previous post. 99.9% of people now 55 years old will never be buying a Town Car.
Travel Well = Driving in order to get there = Town Car.
Zoom/Zoom = Getting there in order to drive = LS
Two distinctly different personalities that I don't believe can be captured in a single phrase.
When I'm driving a Town Car, I feel like a passenger. When driving an LS, I feel like ... like a driver!
I still remember the launch of the LS. Wood, Adrenaline, Leather. It was the car roll out on CNBC that got me down to the local Lincoln Dealer. I can still hear JR touting the SST transmission and the new high performance V-8. By far the best ad campaign ever for a new car.
JR has his finger on the pulse of the car buyer. This is not just my opinion but that ad campaign received numerous awards in the ad industry as well as the auto industry.
I guess the PC hiring policies of Jacque are finally kicking in. When you level the playing field this is what you get. PC quotas produce mediocrity and bland performance.
Travel Well sounds like a nursing home slogan. I can just see the Next issue of American Luxury.
Maybe they will have articles on walkers and wheel chairs too.
BTW-I live in a age 55+ gated community and the most popular new car here is the Lincoln LS so I don’t buy the TC crowd alienation theory. There must be over 50 LS’s bought here in the last year.
Scott
LLSOC Charter Member
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member and close listener @ Mania3
American Luxury...Lincoln Performance
If you downplay a car without ever driving it, how do you expect the BMW/Audi owner (or wanna-be owner) to give the LS a fair shot?
I've never driven the newer TC, but I've been in the back many times and talked to the limo drivers about the car. Vast handling improvement over the older versions, according to them. (One driver actually had the Touring Sedan.) They aren't sport sedans by any means, and if your driving is comprised of a lot of twisting two lane highways, they definitely are not for you. But, for a large sedan, they may handle better than you think.
If you are correct, and only 10 out of 10,000 over 55 year olds buy the TC, where will the development dollars come to keep up or improve the LS? (Better hope those Lincoln SUV's keep selling.)
And, is it fair to compare declining TC sales with all Lexus or BMW sales?
Most families are multi-car families. Wouldn't Lincon love to see a TC (or Navigator) and an LS in those driveways?
When I can't express my opinion here (and that's exactly what it is, not fact), then it's time to turn out lights. We obviously don't care for the what's implicit in this new tag line, whether our perceptions of their intentions are correct or not. We have expressed our feelings in no uncertain terms. I don't care if it was solely her idea or not. She's the marketing manager, she's quoted in the article and it's happening on her watch. Who else are we going to vent at? If our outrage is misplaced, then let her get on this board and correct our misconceptions and dispel our fears. Until then, I expect this discussion will continue for a while longer.
If they're going to constantly be hamstrung for fear of alienating their loyal customers, then give it up already. Turn the car over to Mercury Division, which at least has some performance history. It would be just the shot in the arm Mercury could use and IMO, be better suited to the division that's about to unleash the Marauder.
I bet Dick Cupka would love to get it back. I bought the LS, not because it's a Lincoln, but for what it represented to me. I'd waited years for an American, RWD, enthusiast sedan to appear at a reasonable price. It did, I bought it. Case closed. I couldn't care less about what nameplate is on it. I had plenty of Mercury's before the LS. I've no problem with the name.
And BTW Ray, how was your trip home? How well did you travel? (Sorry, couldn't resist) You were supposed to report in when you arrived safely. Now I'm going to have tell your mother:)
Artie
"The Travel Well Lincoln Land Yacht Company".
Actually, almost all the ads I've seen (and pretty classy looking ones too, but "American Luxury" ads) have been in Metropolitan Home and such. Might be a better bet than advertising in the car rags. Car guys already know about the LS pretty much I think, and are either open minded or so biggoted pro-import it wouldn't matter how much they advertised, and Met Home is geared towards a less retirement aged group than Southern Living, etc. Maybe it's like B&O stereos, they have never advertised in the hobbiest audio rags, only in design and lifestyle mags geared towards well heeled buyers, and it's worked for them pretty well. The audio nerds tend to trash B&O without listening to them, kind of like the BMW vs. LS thing, even though B&O makes some outstanding sounding (but admittedly expensive) equipment. I think they realized they didn't want to play in that kind of game and advertise only in design and other magazines.
OTOH, if the LS is given to Mercury, being a Southerner, owning a _Mercury_ LS might not be so bad...;-)
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
And as for Lincoln's involvement with owners, pnewby, you are dead wrong. Ask anybody who was at Mania 2 six months ago or Mania 3 two months ago.
Scott
LLSOC Member (who shops cars, not ads)
Entering a Merc dealer and seeing a Merc LS, Merc Marauder, and Merc Aviator performance SUV sitting side by side would be a vision for Ford lovers. (Pontiac seems to be carrying the performance banner for GM.) Then Ford could go back to the days when the buyers started with Fords, graduated to Mercs, and eventually became Lincoln owners.
(normanr2- I'm not sure what age level your referring to with regards to older and affluent, but, with today's population living longer and healthier, even today's 60 year old has two or three new car purchases left in their lifetime. And, not to get into a p*****g contest, I'm not so sure if your generation wants to drive LSs or SUVs. And, also being cold hearted and factual, you really don't know what type of vehicle you'll want when you become old and affluent. (Up to the 90's, at least one of my cars had to be "stick shift", but things change.)
But, unfortunately, Ford is trying to make Lincoln into something it wasn't intended to be. The last time I can remember a Lincoln being noted for performance was way back in the 50's when Lincoln was into road racing.
And now, Ford introduces a gem for those who want large car performance, the Marauder, and prices it too high; 35K msrp plus projected dealer markup of $2,500 to $5,000. Then, they show the Marauder convertible, hint about building it in 2005, and "suggest" a 5K premium over the sedan!
Except for the Marauder convertible, the Mercury/Lincoln display at the recent NY Autoshow didn't appear to be too crowded on the last Saturday, even though three 2003 models were shown- a new TC, Marauder sedan, and Marquis. People were crawling all over the Caddy CTSs and the Infiniti G35s while a beautiful black LSE was just sitting there.
(slunar- Fair enough; you've driven many TC's (not a Touring Sedan) and would never consider owning one. But, as I said in my post, where is Lincoln going to get the dollars to invest in an LS type vehicle if TC sales dwindle?
American car companies put their dollars into trucks because that's what the US market wants. Asian and European car companies put their dollars into cars.
Here's another idea. Since we already have the "twin" concept - Crown Vic vs. Marquis De Sade, Sable vs. Taurus etc, why not put the appliance LSes in the Lincoln corral and put the performance models in the Mercury pen. They would probably have to rename the LS to something else to wear the Mercury name. Too bad a good name like the Marauder will be used on the obsolete Crown Vic chassis. It would be a great name for a reborn performance LS.
Imagine a 4.6 DOHC 32 valve "Cobra" LS with Tremec or Getrag 6 speed. It's all possible once the Mercury "LS" gets away from the blue hair and Jag protectors at Lincoln. Open the parts bins! Ford already has the parts. Mercury can leave the crippled stepchild with no toys status, drop the "M" out of LM and add a new division at PAG.
And this will cost less than one "Traveling Slow" campaign.
It shined so brightly in the sun until the marketers marked it as done.
The scarlet letter clipped its tail.
All for the sake of the old travelers.
Who just want to "Travel Well".
Anne be sorry for this deed now your flagship is no steed.
hello world,
Perception is everything. The folks that will be buying the majority of cars will be the GenXers. When old folks buy a car it is to go to and from the grocery store and the doctors office. Both of which are usually within 10 miles of their homes. They just simply won't be buying that many cars. If Lincoln wants to recapture their reign as a premium fun luxury car, regardless of its origin, they need to get back to the roots. Someone earlier posted the 61-65 was the prime of Lincoln. It is true. I wasn't even born yet, in that era, but the reason I feel in love with lincolns was because of the free spiritedness that those car exhibited back then. I bought my LS to be associated with that feeling.
You need to be awake when at the helm of such an important post within your organization. It isn't too late to drink some coffee and stay up late to rethink how they can appeal to the old infrequent buyers and the youthful just buy a new one generation.
Packv12 can pack sand. We have a forum to voice our opinions and to my knowledge these opinions shape the direction of our product. Of course this is all in fun. As your opinion matters to Packv12.
And this was mine.
good night and "Travel Well" in the meantime.
Why don't you plan to attend LS Mania IV in October so you can see, firsthand, what I'm talking about. You will be a convert. I guarantee it.
Artie
Charter Member, LLSOC.
Advertising - the April C&D has an LS ad - a stationary LS with an out-of-focus background and a good caption: "Phew, that was fun." It would be meaningful and catching if the picture was of an SCCA event with an LS at or near the head of the pack. Compare the "standing still" LS ad to:
1) Honda civic - car doors are lying on the parking lot ground as a Civic(!) parks.
2) Nissan Maxima - inverted jet fighter looking at an obviously moving Maxima.
3) Nissan Altima - passenger compartment clutter smashed against the rear window, caption: "May cause avid use of accelerator."
All of these other ads catch the eye an gets the car noticed. It's not tag lines that are important, it's catching the consumer's eye and giving them something they think they want.
The 2003 model isn't out yet so lets not be so hard on Lincoln until after we see what they have come up with for the new model year.
The Town Car isn't a driver's car. The TC is for limo's or people driving other people around. The TC certainly makes for a very comfortable limo (I've taken many a trip to/from JFK in one).
Some have reported having their LS being mistaken for a Conti. Frankly, a full size sedan LS (called a Continental) should be produced. Widen the body by 12 inches, lengthen it by 2 feet, increase rear seat leg room, put in a larger trunk, soften the ride while still using the DEW98 platform (the more parts produced, the less expensive they are), keep a near 50/50 weight distribution and have a family sedan that isn't embarassing or disappointing to drive - a Conti replacement is needed after all.
Let the Mercury Cougar label get the DEW98 platform with a 2 door coupe and 4 door sedan. Let the Cougar focus on performance (with up scale interiors relative to Ford) and let Lincoln focus on "Travelling Well?"
Talked to an Irvine marketing type at my dealer today. I am squarely on Brian's side. Wait and see and I'm sure we all will be surprised. I was also told a thing or two about the future. I was not told to keep quiet, but will in the truest of LLSOC fashion.
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member and waiting patiently.
As for spinning LM out of PAG, I have to wonder if they'll move out of that fancy building in Irvine to back home where they belong - in Detroit. And either we'll be able to inherit the 4.2L engine because there will be less positioning between Lincoln and Jag, or we're going to see a greater divergence in the parts (read: engines and trannys) between the two cars. I'm actually not sure which would be better for us, from a performance standpoint.
Here is the response from a high-ranking executive at Lincoln who intimately knows the ad campaign.
"But I've seen the ads and they are pretty cool. Young, hip, good music, lively. The comments are coming from people who haven't seen the ads and don't know what they are talking about -- of course, since they haven't seen the ads. Everyone is wasting their time trying to comment on something they haven't seen, based on an Automotive News story. It's sort of like judging the next album by Nickleback by the title of the album, if you know what I mean, that received on review in an industry magazine. Wait until you see the ads before judging is what I say! Feel free to use my comments, if you like, as you talk with these folks."
Practically all the Lincoln LS ads I've ever seen have been etherial fuzzy head-in-the-clouds fluff with very little important content. If CU hadn't said it was the best American car, and best HANDLING American car they'd ever tested (which floored me), I'd never have gone for a test drive in the first place. Once I drove it, I realized "THIS IS GOOD!" and we bought one.
After reading the weekend posts and wondering if everyone had been drinking from the "my LS is wonderful" kool-aid, it sure turned around quickly !
Advertising is about convincing people. I am sure there are tag lines or phrases from commercials that we first thought were stupid but later were persuaded that they had meaning and value-probably by the visuals. The Mania III ads that were shown got a very good reception from the crowd, I can't believe the tag line is going to change that opinion. As a matter of fact, the tag line may have appeared for all I can recall.
This tag line is in keeping with the Gerry McGovern idea for Lincoln. Perhaps people should be pointing in that direction. It goes well with the Lincoln icon collection. I sure hope they haven't sold out of those cuff links...;-)
As someone said, the tag line can be made to cover both an enthusiast driver and a "traditional" Lincoln pilot. Multi-hour,1000 mile days with no back problems from the wonderful LS seats could be considered "travelling well". Do not discount the influence of passengers on your opinion of a vehicle, otherwise a lot of us would be driving a Mustang or Corvette.
Also, trying to ignore history, since it's not taught any more.
"Stan, what a GREAT idea! I was thinking of many roads on which I'd like to take Anne for a ride!" referring to: "Traveling Well (by stanny1)
is taking an LS around the Solo 2 course at Fontana with Anne in the back seat without a seat belt."
And now because of "insider information", you say,
"I am squarely on Brian's side. Wait and see and I'm sure we all will be surprised."
Whew! A politician could not have done an about-face any better!
But you gotta know that it is crazy to "leak" negative information. If Lincoln is reserving the "good stuff" for later, why oh why would they publicly release probably the most mundane tag line of recent memory?
It would STILL be nice to have a Lincoln rep chime in here. I cannot see what they have to lose.
PS. Also, Lets get it right guys. The proper phrase is "pounding sand"! not packing it! If you're gonna be rude, ya gotta get it right!
Take using celebrities to pimp your product. Why! I don't rush right out and buy whatever it is they sold their likeness to. I buy based on value, now some of you might not be able to recognize that on your own and use such ads to make your purchasing decisions. Can you see how your rants about a silly ad really don't do anything for the product. You are after the wrong facet of the business. My awful poem and rhtorical opinions are just that. The rudeness started way before I interjected my 2 cents and will contiune well beyond my LS buying years. And remember there is more than one way to skin a cat. pack that where you want to.
as far as anonymity goes, just click my nick and you'll see who I am. I'll be back when the topics swing to something more meaningful. Also, I am selling a book of poems dedicated to the Travel Well ad look for it in stores near you.
FOR THE CRITICS. follow this link http://home.hawaii.rr.com/bushaxe/page2.html go to the end and you will see. that yes there is more than one way to skin a cat. pack sand means go pack sand. it is a mundane task. that is all.
I was almost fooled in to believing that the Cust Serv center was an owners advocate. I ended up in more red tape then I wanted after calling them. Had the dealer, NOrthgate LM Tampa, Fl, not made the command decision to change them out I would still be driving with the san fran fog at the front of my car.
I have been through some hard times with my service shop but I have always found that they eventually correct the issue. I had give some great consideration to going to another shop for service but I can honestly say that I trust my service advisor and I know that he will do the right thing. If you live in Tampa stop by and say hi to Chris. Tell him Noah sent you and chat with him a little about what pains your LS. 10 dollars to a doughtnut he can help.
http://detnews.com/2002/insiders/0204/12/inside-464030.htm
I STILL want to take Anne for that white-knuckle ride and think the tag line won't appeal to the under 35 buyer. I STILL think "American Luxury" is a much more defining tag line. And I do like "American Luxury, Lincoln Performance". After my discussion with that suit yesterday, I understand better the implementation of the line. I believe jhoffman61 is correct and we (Mania III attendees) most likely already saw the ads. That is why I am taking a more wait-and-see posture. I think, too, that we suffer from the LACK of advertising we actually see. I don't remember the last time I saw a dedicated LS ad. I know Lincoln sells other cars and needs to advertise for them too. I have seen quite a few Navigator ads. I can count on one hand how many LSes I see in a week. I CAN'T count how many Navigators and Town Cars (not counting the limos) I see.
On a more LS note, mine had to spend the night at my dealers last night
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
Best Regards,
Victor
I have heard that running the A/C can be a performance hit when trying to accelerate. But I have also heard that there are A/C systems that don't impact performance. Can anyone provide a final answer for that?
So, keep the Lincoln LS name for the bigger version (LS=Luxury Sport) and (assuming Mercury's still hot on retro names) give the present LS to Mercury as a Mercury Cyclone. (Just keep far away from the Mercury Comet or Turnpike Cruiser names.) Give Mercury the rumored coupe, also.
Then, all those who want to stay with a Ford product, but don't want the TC, could graduate from the Merc version to the Lincoln version as they become more affluent and mature (age). Natural progression.
Put the Jag powerplant in the Merc versions so that Jaguar doesn't get ticked off about a Ford family luxury car performing better than the Jag luxury car.
You don't like what Lincoln is doing? Buy something else. But at least give them a fair chance. Even with all the quote insipid unquote LS advertising we all still bought the car. And we all still like driving it. And whether we like it or not Lincoln is about more than the LS. The LS is the most expensive car Lincoln produces and it will keep being that way for a long time.
This frustrates me to no end. Yes I am slanted toward Lincoln and the LS very heavily. No I don't get paid by Lincoln to be committed to them. I do it because I believe in the car and the company. Everything that I've seen and everyone I've talked to at Lincoln points me to having confidence in the future of the LS and the future of the brand. But, geez, talk about an uphill battle with everyone. Every time the trend is positive on this board (reference point, look back over last weeks posts) it's as though no one can stand to just be happy about the car and the company. Talk about an underdog mentality that Lincoln has to put up with.
You say there is no Lincoln participation on this board? How do you think I know the information that I pass on to you? I don't pull it out of 15 periodicals that I read or look at whatever dusty reference manual will support my viewpoint. I get it from talking directly with the people at Lincoln. And to a person they have wholeheartedly welcomed my involvement and have passed along information that they really didn't need to do to help us stay informed.
An ad or an ad campaign does not make the car. If you are that easily swayed to make a purchase, then the advertising geniuses must have a field day with you. Your pantry must be filled with Budweiser beer, you eat Jack-in-the-box hamburgers 7 days a week, and you use Charmin because it has quilted layers. Oh and you call Miss Cleo and the Psychic Friends Network constantly because she really is a true psychic.
You can keep thinking what you like about Lincoln. Meanwhile I already have my reservation in for what's coming up.
P.S. Yes I know my first post on this subject was a tag line from another company. It was done intentionally.
P.P.S. Appears that early reports of the Blackwood's demise were exaggerated (to borrow an older gentleman's line)
LS users are griping because they feel that potential buyers not interested in the LS or not participating in the chatbox may not get the correct impression about Lincoln and the car from the new slogan.
Good advertising equals better sales equals product improvement equals product longevity. Advertising does make a difference, especially to those who know nothing about a product. (Why else are advertisers buying TV time on TV shows like the SuperBowl and Friends? I don't think their ultimate goal is to make the cast of Friends multimillionaires, do you?)
Travel well, Zoom Zoom, American Luxury, whatever, don't mean didley to me. The image is what counts, not the slogan.
I've been holding out for the Marauder, but, based on Marauder pricing, I'm now leaning towards the Jag S (2003). However, I will hold off until the 2003 LS is announced before I make a decision, assuming Mercury doesn't smarten up in the meantime.
I just feel that until the time that we can see the commercials it is unfair to judge them based on an article in a periodical that just talks about the overall image, not specifics. And while I agree that Zoom, Zoom is a cute ad campaign (my 4 year-old is driving me nuts singing the zoom-zoom song) it isn't going to make me buy a Mazda or change my impression about the company. Any more than believing that BMW makes the "Ultimate Driving Machine". But then again I've never bought into commercials as being the definition of a product either. So I may be in the minority, especially since I don't watch that much TV.
Maybe there does need to be a Lincoln Liasion on the board. An Ari Fleischer if you will for the Daily Briefings with a Q and A! Maybe not.
No seriously we do need to back off guys/gals. They have produced the LS and we have seen what is to come. Some ad slogan isn't gonna kill us off. Even though we don't necessarily like what it says about us. Truth of the matter is I do Travel Well in my LS...
Best Regards,
Victor
Something as simple as a lame tag line can set the tone for the whole product line. Let's face it Lincoln's image is "Old Fartmobile for people who know nothing about cars". A lame tag line can ruin an otherwise hip commercial.
In spite of my rants, I have been out on the street trying to sell the LS to my friends and acquaintances, because I belive that it is that good a car. I used to get upset at the reaction I receive when I told someone I drove a Lincoln, you know the rolling eyes and the glazed over look that says , "I am now completely tuned out as no Lincoln driver has any car credibility." Now I just accept those sort of reactions as part of Traveling Well in an un-cool brand.
I have given my keys to my LS to several FWD appliance drivers and to them feel the LS experience. The results so far:
1st one: Former Olds loyalest, finally believed that there was difference in cars, looked a bunch of stuff (no Lincolns) and bought a Jag S -type.
2nd one: Former Taurus driver, got all excited about a luxury performance sedan, looked at Lexus, Mercedes and BMW, bought a 5 Series. Never even considered Lincoln.
3rd one: Decided to treat himself, bought a Mercedes E class, never considered Lincoln.
Lincoln's image (like Cadillac) is it's what you buy after you retire so you can putter around and have a nice soft ride to Florida every winter.
Although the Detroit news article is encouraging, and I am further encouraged that Lincoln had the sense to put the 300 HP DOHC engine in the Aviator I am still afraid that inside Lincoln there is a daily battle between the old Lincoln and what could be the new Lincoln and the old is still calling the shots.
My wife and I both like our LS very much, and want to see the car continued for a long time. I, as the "car guy" in the family, have observed how advertising can impact sales, both positively and negatively.
A few years back, GM says that Camaro sales are slipping. The loyal enthusiasts counter by saying, "Have you seen a Camaro ad campaign lately?" A couple of years later, GM says they're dropping the car due to lack of sales. Car enthusiasts see a correlation in this, and the possibity that this might happen to the LS, and get worried. We've also seen how compaines sometimes just don't give a product a chance, and if the projected sales aren't there, they're quick to pull the plug.
I think that Jerry makes a good point, that sales equals dollars, equals more R&D, which equals a better product. A better LS is something that we'd all enjoy, far more than another "orphan".
IMHO a lot of us were quick to jump on the "Drive Well" band wagon, because we feel the LS is a real drivers' car, and L-M doesn't seem to be capitalizing on this. After all, we're "gearheads", and don't want to see our toy boxes thinned out.
offer this humbling observation for the ls...i live in a small town, where german hardware and
volvo station wagons reign supreme, that has a
lincoln/jaguar/mercury dealership...in the two
years roughly of the ls's introduction i have
seen maybe three lss' in town....okay not very
scientific i know...however...there is also a
bmw dealership in town and you know the rest...
this is a shame...i went and checked out the ls
and it's gorgeous inside and out...but one has to
wonder: how long will ford go before they won't
wait any longer to see some real growth in the ls's sales. as far as the argument goes regarding
the tug of war between retaining the older customers and the younger set, i think that lincoln can and should cater to both segments...i
am a believer in the x and y gens coming around to
wanting a different type of ride when they're in
their 50's or 60's...people's taste change and
the car companies must cover alot of bases with
only so much product...also we're talking about a
country of 220 ? million folks...that's alot of
diversity...the article in the nytimes last week
used a small east texas town as an example: the used car lot had three cars for sale out of hundreds of trucks...virtually the entire town
drove pickups and it wasn't a farm town...that's just what that neck of the woods wants...lincoln
can try as hard as they can to compete with the
upper end of the luxury car market but it will
take a long time and alot of money and committment.
Even if you don't watch a lot of TV, we all listen to the radio, read the newspapers, read magazines, notice billboards, etc. Advertising is everywhere. On t-shirts, sneakers, etc. Even McDonald's Golden Arches are a form of advertising.
You said it perfectly in your post 8337. "but at least give them a fair chance".
To get a fair chance, Lincoln has to inform the market that the product exists. Advertising alone will not sell a product, but it will help to get your interest especailly if you're in the market. ($10 bucks says you know what soft drink uses Brittney Spears in their commercials and the car company that uses Tiger Woods as a spokesperson.) Maybe you will not buy the product, but you noticed the commercial. That's what advertising does.
"Travel well" could very well be a good slogan for a company that makes other products besides a sport sedan. As jgranata said above, there's 220 million people out there, and not all buyers want an LS type vehicle. Lincoln's offering products for SUV and luxury sedan and sports sedan buyers. The slogan has to cover all bases.
The real message will be in the wording or visual image that backs up the slogan. You can bet each commercial will be tailored for that particular product and market.
Some people wouldn't be caught dead owning a TC; I wouldn't be caught dead owning an SUV. Different strokes.........
We'll see.
Quote:
The LS is by far the best handling luxury car to emerge from Detroit in many years, but its impact has been muted because of its derivative styling and plain interior design.
In terms of adding some chutzpah to Lincoln's image, respected Detroit engineering firm McLaren Performance Technologies, has produced its own version of the LS, with a 350bhp supercharged engine and appropriate suspension modifications.
McLaren will be offering its LSE this summer, for as much as $18,000 over the LS standard price, depending on chosen options.
But down the road Lincoln needs to develop a high-performance sports car flagship, an image booster like Cadillac's V12 Cien concept. Lincoln Mercury President Brian Kelley acknowledges the need.
"We are aware of the Cien," he says, "and are looking at doing our own high-end sports coupe."
I say:
I really enjoy driving my car (2K LS8 Sport)more every day.
If allowed to grow the LS marque and create a heritage they and we will really have something here! The possibilities are limitless. And they have no shortage of talent to get the job done.
I can only imagine what Jerry Mac is going to do to combat that "derivative styling" assessment while maintaining that "Lincoln DNA" thing?!
funkcity........peace
Also, Does anyone know if there is a way to get the headlights to come on when the wipers are activated by rain? In Florida it is state law that the headlights must be on when the wipers are running due to rain. Problem is sometimes it rains in the day time, liquid sunshine as we call it here, and the headlights do not turn on automatically. If anyone has a solution I sure would love to hear it.
I've got to believe that new personnel (i.e., since the LS launch) in key Lincoln positions weren't personally apart of the LS launch, and have no idea how to handle the target audience their predecessor's successfully reached when the LS first hit the streets. To me, the "Travel Well" tag line seems to be right in step with the Lincoln of old, and a complete betrayal of the image they created (at least in my mind). Personally, I'm not pleased with this tag line, and even if the TV and print ads specific to the LS are good, there will be still be an association with this awfully lame "Travel Well" phrase.
Hey, I may be 40 now, but I still don't need geritol yet; though the "Travel Well" phrase might make me think otherwise. :-P
Chris - LLSOC Charter Member