That's the approximate value of the old 0%/36 month financing deals, and through New Years, they were also making the first payment (up to $1,000). I never know quite what to make of the "below invoice" deals, because when I actually check the price against the invoice, its nowhere near the promised discount.
The Lincoln site is now promoting 1.9% 36 Month Financing in my market (Northern Virginia). This is roughly a $2,100 discount versus a 6% 36 month loan. I see no rebate, and Edmunds says no dealer cash, so I'm not sure where a dealer would come up with the money to sell at $3,000 below invoice. Holdback on these guys is only $700 to $800.
That's the approximate value of the old 0%/36 month financing deals, and through New Years, they were also making the first payment (up to $1,000. I never know quite what to make of the "below invoice" deals, because when I actually check the price against the invoice, its nowhere near the promised discount.
The Lincoln site is now promoting 1.9% 36 Month Financing in my market (Northern Virginia). This is roughly a $2,100 discount versus a 6% 36 month loan. I see no rebate, and Edmunds says no dealer cash, so I'm not sure where a dealer would come up with the money to sell at $3,000 below invoice. Holdback on these guys is only $700 to $800.
craigcurry: Well, we don't really do that, but we could.:) Congratulations and welcome. Wait till it's broken in. You'll . . . well, just wait.:)
Turned 45k miles today, 18 month old late build '00. One failed window regulator. One burned out light bulb. A tiny rattle in the driver's door, but only if the temp is below 10F. Driven fast on rough highways every day in all weather. 23-24 mpg in 75% highway commuting. What's not to like? I've got a 60 month, 6% loan, and not even the great deals mentioned above can cause me any regret. It's better than the day I brought it home.
If I had it over to do I'd lease. With the rebates 2002s are going pretty low around here. Local dealer has a leftover 2001 LS8 for $26,995. What do you think that makes my 00 worth. Had I leased it I wouldn't care. Such is life.
<<<<Local dealer has a leftover 2001 LS8 for $26,995.>>>>>>>
I would have to think that is a demo with many miles or a damaged car. Does the state you live in require a dealer to inform potential buyers of new cars of previous damage? I live in Maryland and we have such a law here. When I was looking I had a slime ball salesman call me with a "deal" on a car he said got scratched and was repaired. I drove 30 min to look at the car and while I was there the scratched story grew to a small dent story. A little while later it grew to "we had to replace the rear fender" This slow release of info over the course of an hour grew to the owners daughter wiped out the whole right side of the car after leaving the road and the body shop bill came to over $6,000. The really funny part was the salesmanager said he couldn't sell the car for what the salesman had quoted but that he had to get regular price for the car. This all happened at Al Packer Lincoln Mercury one of the sleezest Lincoln Mercury dealers out there. You know the type....... advertise big trade dollars while selling the uneducated the new ride at list price. Or they advertise used cars at hot prices and when you get there the car was driven around the world 6 times. Oh and $600 "gold" packages that cost the dealer $35.
In a bold move undoubtedly proving her worth as a highly-paid Ford executive, she has decided what's needed to float Lincoln's boat is to ... Wow!, drop the tag line "American Luxury" from Lincoln advertising. Absolute genius, eh? Gone is the association of Lincoln with America and Luxury. What was that about anyway, huh?
SO now it's official, raise the curtain (not the flag) for the new tag line for Lincoln ... "Travel well with Lincoln." Now ain't that a catchy tune, huh? Oooh, I gotta get me one of those travel well cars! Augmented by "There are those who travel, and those who travel well." Yeah, and there are those who design and engineer cars and there are those who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to dream up this asinine B__l S__t.
Gawd. "Travel well". Now there's a line that'll change people's perception of Lincoln. Edgy, forward-looking, real powerfully modern. Travel well. Like maybe you feel like you're travelling on your living room SOFA, Anne? "Customers were telling us that 'American luxury' defined the area we're competing in but was not saying how Lincoln is different from other American luxury brands," Belec said. Hey, Anne, that's YOUR job, to describe how Lincoln is different. Does "travel well" describe how Lincoln is different? What, so the Lexus, Cadillac and BMW drivers are "travelling not-so-good"? or what? fer gawd's sake. And what's this about "different from other American luxury brands"??? **There's only one other**, Anne. The point was, IMNSHO, to differentiate Lincoln from ALL lux brands, especially foreign, wasn't it? And to out-do Cadillac in American-ism in the process.
MAybe if Anne had once, just once, introduced herself to the captive audience of informed, interested customers here, I wouldn't be so hard on her. Nah, after all, I'm an engineer. To me Marketing is .. well like mammaries on a male bovine. Sorry, Jim.
OK, the drugs have kicked in, I can relax again ... So, good night. Be well. Sleep well. Wake well. Travel to work well. Welly, welly well.
Belec said the new voiceover will "help us establish that Lincoln is about not just the driver but everyone traveling in the vehicle. It's the entire experience - about style, comfort, elegance"
** Whew!! Give me a break
Lincoln Mercury spent $257.2 million in 01 on advertizing.
Say how can I get some of that? It sure dosn't take much creativity. ESPECIALLY where our beloved LSes are concerned. Too bad Lutz went to GM
IMHO, methinks that all of us on this forum have done more for Lincoln and the LS, in particular, that 100 Anne Belecs will ever do. How do these people ever get to this level of corporate America????
Yeah, that really sets Lincoln apart from all the other cars, doesn't it? I can see people really standing up and taking notice of this one. I'm certain you can expect this catchy phrase to take its place next to some of the others that have become part of the American lexicon. Those L-M marketing gurus dazzle us once again. This is at least as interesting as the ads that had the LS & Navigator paired together. Now we know where the folks who came up with the "new Coke" are employed.
Really now, did you expect any less after JR spoiled us with his level of participation?
I've got to back to work now. Some of my co-workers work, but I work really well, Y'all have well day now, hear?
It is good to know we Lincoln owners travel well. I wonder who the target audience here is?
Was it our Bavarian friends with the commercial a few years back where an accident was avoided by applying the car's power and handling characteristics?
I think that was directed to a different audience.
Has anyone had a problem with the glossly black paint flaking off the exterior pillar between the front and rear LS doors? Any suggested fix and is this something that is/should be covered under warranty? My otherwise great LS is an early 2001 build with about 10,000 miles. Thanks.
Well my first reaction to the end of "American Luxury" is anger. American Luxury has a ring to it, "Travel well with Lincoln" just plain sounds wimpy, corporate bland and more feminine. (I'm sure the last one will generate some anger directed at me from the PC crowd). In addition it has an "old folks" sound to it (sorry PC folks). If "American Luxury" doesn't define what a Lincoln is, how in the world does "Travel Well" do it.
Even though the Autoextremest.com guys (former GM ad agency types) have hailed the demise of "Amerian Luxury" they haven't explained how "Travel Well" is any better?
But I do agree with the Autoextremest guys that the 3 most important things in this business are #1 product, #2 product and #3 product. Why are Lincoln sales down? Do you think that it is because the ad campaigns were tagged with "American Luxury"? Or, could it be because:
1. The Continental is a great engine stuffed in a 7 year old over bloated Taurus unibody.
2. The last Town Car body design appealed to neither traditional Town Car buyers, limo conversion companies, nor potential new Lincoln customers.
3. That under all that Town Car sheet metal is a warmed over 1981 Ford Crown Victoria with a wimpy engine, dated transmission, horrible steering, tons of body roll and mediocre brakes.
4. That as good as the LS is, it's an island product for Lincoln that has little in common with other Lincoln models, doesn't appeal to TC or Conti buyers hence Lincoln has no product line synergy.
5. That the MK-VIII was left to die with no replacement.
6. That Lincoln wasted a huge amount of engineering and marketing $$ on a micro niche product called the Blackwood.
7. That Lincoln has spent a large amount of $$ on SUV's for everyone just as that market niche is peaking and is now suffering from over supply with too many SUV models and SUV brands in the market.
8. That Lincoln has no image leading product that would define "American Luxury".
I'm still old school. If you make a great product and sell it for a reasonable price, they will beat your doors down to buy it. You roll out marketing when no one wants to buy what you have.
Belec said the new voiceover will "help us establish that Lincoln is about not just the driver but everyone traveling in the vehicle. It's the entire experience - about style, comfort, elegance."
Does this sound like a come-on for a younger buyer? What about performance, safety, and quality? Her words sound like a TC commercial for those who want to be driven...not for those who want to drive.
I hope this is not indicative of a redirection of Lincoln's commitment (and need) to attract younger buyers.
The Marketing Guys do their best jobs selling their campaigns to LM. For sure, the Public isn't buying it. If you took the millions mis-spent on marketing and put it in product, it would be more obvious. For every marketing exec fired, you could hire two engineers. And we could all be driving McClaren LSes for under 40k. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. Hey, Anne, the street talks. Get out with the boys on the street. And listen.
...5 to 1 odds Lincoln is out of business before my LS hits the grave yard....
where id Jim go agin?
Thanks to akirby for the tire comments, and I can't believe you guys didn't flame the hell out of me for my anti-horse power comments. What does it take get a few sparks flying these days.
We're a much kindler, gentler bunch nowadays since a certain person bought a 540i and started pestering the BMW, CTS and S-type forums (using a new name). I'm still trying to figure out how he can put up with that awful unrefined unbalanced inherently inferior V8 when he could have had that silky smooth ultra refined perfectly designed inline 6 in the 530i. :-)
Of course if you really wanted sparks all you have to say is something like:
Nobody ever needs a limited slip differential or a 6-speed manual transmission. The non-OD Getrag 5-speed manual and electronic traction control work perfectly under all circumstances.
This slogan is a death sentence for our beloved LSes. Obviously, Anne hasn't driven an LS. The passangers in the LS are FAR from well. In my LS they are usually screaming!
A few month ago I had read the "Travel Well" thing and I posted it. I really wish my information had been wrong! Also, Anne did NOT do this all by herself. There were a lot of brown-nosers responsible. The ad people were not present at Mania 3 but they should have been. They are now responsible for confusing the image of Lincoln EVEN MORE!
The McLaren LS is a brilliant HP model. I can only imagine how they will or will not promote it. (Not being an official Lincoln product) If the big-gun factory LS is not due until 05 then a lot of sales and or promotion could be seriously lost by then....and then it would be back to SUVs and Limos!
Marketing; * Build the product * Create the positive buzz * The LLSOC is a start and I am sure many of us would be happy to help FOR FREE! * The LS target is BMW period
My friend just bought a new 530 His wife just bought a new 325 Lincoln was never even an optional thought It might have been however. But they have been consistent in their driving message.
The last time this discussion came up, we found that some owners have deterioration of the B-pillar coating (it's anodized, BTW)and some don't. It seemed to narrow down to automatic car washes. Those who don't use commercial car washes don't have a problem. After 28 months, mine look brand new-hand washing only. A little wax or spray detailer to remove the many fingerprints they seem to collect & good as new again.
It's worth complaining about, though. The warranty is bumper-to-bumper.
I guess some B-pillars are holding up while others are holding up well.
the new Lincoln marketing push is toward: "A car's value is in hauling other people around. . .well." Maybe it's a luxury bus company. Then there's the style over substance bit.
If you're inclined to be in possession of a vehicle in which you're the only occupant 99.3% of the time. . .buy your car elsewhere (and don't let the door hit you on the way out). Someone seems to have decided that the marketing approach created for the LS was a mistake: omigod, we've alienated the white-hairs -- let's kiss up. Bottom line -- not only is my LS manual an orphan. . .the whole damn LS concept appears to have been cast adrift.
Travelling and driving are so, so different. I travel a lot. I fly (or at least the airplanes I ride in do), I ride buses, subways and ferrys. Travelling well is so different from driving well (especially when performance is factored in) that it's apparent (in spades) that Lincoln marketing has chosen to tell us to stuff it. When I drive, I'm in control. More often than not, when I'm travelling, I'm not. Anyone (who actually bought the car) want to opine regarding what will happen to resale value? Who remembers the Merkur (forgive the spelling)?
Sometimes a leap of faith goes directly into an abyss. One may be better off with a company that actually understands enthusiasts (the whole company, not just the engineers).
Help me get right with this. . .assuming it's possible.
is dead on arrival. There's nothing to get "right" with. This campaign clearly leaves the thrill and passion of driving standing at the curb. I hate to bring this up, but my past perspective of the Lincoln "heritage" is that of luxury land yachts that have nothing in common with the "driving" experience and everything in common with the "living room on wheels" where the primary concern is occupant comfort for those in the REAR seats.
Sorry Lincoln, I don't relate too well with the well-heeled set that would rather be driven to their destination than be an active participant in the journey. My impression of this campaign is that Lincoln is reverting back to focusing on their "OLD" clientele. I guess they're not dead yet!
While everyone is going off on the news of the "Travel Well" ad campaign, I'd like everyone to remember that they haven't seen any of the ads yet so reality may be different than perception.
If you guys think Lincoln is going to alienate the Navigator and LS markets, which are Lincoln's future markets, by placing an ad campaign that is more Fig Newtons and prune juice, than appealing to the younger audience that buys these vehicles, I think you're off base.
Lincoln cannot afford to tick off the older folks that buy the Town Car. They are old, affluent and have reliably bought Lincolns for who knows how long. So Lincoln can't afford to alienate them at the same time that they have to cater to us "young guns". Not an easy row to how as it were.
So if you were Lincoln how do you do it? Can't do a corporate image showing that driving is actually fun because then all the old ones go away to Cadillac. So do you start with a rather generic statement and work each model into it with it's own unique personality while keeping the vanilla corporate standard?
I hope Brian is correct in that Lincoln does in fact have a plan behind this seemingly nonsensical slogan. However, if our initial fears somehow turn out to be justified then I will be "Travelling Well" in an Infiniti G35. Fortunately, mine is an MY '01 so I can afford to be patient. I believe the '03 model will bring us an indication of future LSing while '05 will definitely be the deciding year. Until then I can only hope Anne has a legitimate plan that will make us all happy and THAT is not an easy task.
Thursday morning. I have not read much if anything on this board regarding XMSR. I'll post the details as to model and quality of sound in the next few days.
I love my 2002 LS manual but I love the tag line on an ad for Acura (I think) ..."and what gear did you dream in?"
Having seen what's in store for the 03 LS, I know good things are coming. What disturbs me is that no one will give it a second thought based on this ad campaign. "Travel Well" is clearly a passive slogan that does not reflect the nature of the LS. Town Car-yes, LS-no.
Considering the Lincoln ad campaign has been pretty weak following the first year of LS production, hopefully no one will notice. However, if people do notice, it's only because they forgot to hit the snooze button . . .
I told my non car loving wife (those of you that know my wife know what I mean) the new slogan, she got the deer-in-the-headlights look. She said "What does THAT mean". Personally, I haven't a clue how "travelling" fits in with the LS. The LS is all about DRIVING! If Lincoln wants to cater to the over 75 crowd, that's fine but they will be giving up the under 50 group. JR's presentation at ManiaI said it all. The average buyer was 63. Ten years later the average buyer was 73. Jethro says with a campaign to seel to this group, Lincoln will expire when their "average" buyers do. Lincoln needs, IMNSHO, to take a chance and boldy go where no Lincoln has gone before. The LS is a GREAT start. They may have targeted the under 40 crowd, but the LS sells well in all age groups. I've seen many an LS being steered by an over 50er. Maybe the reason so many TC's and Conti's (well, maybe not the Conti) were sold is that the LS wasn't available. Heck, just 'cause you hit 60 doesn't mean you don't like to, or can't, drive! You should've seen my dad drive his Windstar at 69!
I'll stop rambling now. I, too, hope Brian is right.
Stan, what a GREAT idea! I was thinking of many roads on which I'd like to take Anne for a ride! Brian, Jeff and Ray, remember that road on the way home from Julian? That would be perfect!
Actually, there WAS someone from the ad agency at Mania 3. She was sitting next to me when we were in the auditorium watching the ads prior to seeing the '03 cars. She thought our group was "amazing". I'm not sure how to take that, but at least someone in the ad business knows about us.:)
I don't get "Travel Well" but then I don't get most advertising. The last car commercial I remember liking was the car-chasing dog running splat into the back of a parked Toyota that supposedly looks fast standing still. But I still don't want a Toyota. So who am I to say what works? "American Luxury" didn't sell me my LS; the old-timers on this board got me interested and the car did the rest.
We've heard from at least one prominent person within Lincoln that the LS is at the leading edge of the new "Lincoln DNA". Personally, I don't care what slogans or buzzwords the Madison Ave. geniuses throw around as long as they keep building cars like this.
I've hit a nerve when Brian responds to one of my posts.
I'm still waiting to hear how Lincoln will serve two/three masters. The 1) hearse crowd has been described ad nasuem (the blue hairs) ,2) then there's the huge SUV contingent (that's huge SUV, not huge contingent), then 3) finally, the LS crowd.
Seriously (as if I were capable), what is Lincoln trying to be?
A couple years ago I thought they wanted to compete with BMW.
Now I'm way beyond "not so sure." Apparently the new ads will make us all feel better. I can hardly wait.
BTW, I just ponied up for two more years of LLSOC, and I'm a "charter member." I just deleted an especially non-PC bit, but the upshot was, I need to understand (or at least be on the same planet with) the replacement for Mr. Rodgers. The new person appears to have absolutely no connection with this board or with LLSOC. I may have missed the postings that described her participation in either the bulletin board or the LLSOC events.
I am very familiar with the service level Pavilion provides. I am the one who always dings them on this board. I'm not sure who you were dealing with but I always call the service manager, John Waits, and he does what I request and usually asks me if I need a car. They pretty much recognize me when I walk in the door since I've been there some many times and raised hell with them. You just have to make sure they actually do the work and do it right. I was in there about two weeks ago for some warranty work, moisture in the headlight assembly, rear license plate falling off (don't laugh) and discoloration in the rearview mirror. I asked them if I could upgrade to the mirror that has the compass and they said since I had the moisture sensitive wipers they couldn't do it. Anyway I went to pick up the car and they had not changed the mirror. I pointed this out to John and they changed it on the spot in about five minutes. Once I stated driving the car after the weekend I kept hearing a beep from the message center but I couldn't catch message. It seemed to happen mostly when I hit a bump. Finally the wife was able to read the message and it said "trunk ajar". Well I called John up and told him since they were in the trunk fixing the license plate holder they must have done something. He said it was problally a loose wire and to bring it in and they would fix it while I waited. When I showed up they jumped right on it and fixed it in about 10 minutes and I left. I asked what the problem was and they said the plunger wasn't installed properly. A few days later they sent me a copy of a workorder and they charged Lincoln $28 for repairing the loose wire. Now I am certain that they caused the problem yet they billed Lincoln for the repair. Doesn't seem right. I use Pavilion because they are about 4 miles from where I live in Cedar Park. There is a dealer in Georgetown that you might be close to, if so I would give them try. I would if they were close to me.
It's sure gratifying to see that I'm not the only one amazed and perhaps even incensed with this new tag line for the new Lincoln. It amazes me further to realize the person charged with molding the auto-buying public's image of Lincoln came from, what, the finance and credit dept or something? When I read her shpeil (sp?) it appears to me that: 1 - She does not understand who Lincoln is competing with (hint- it ain't just Cadillac). If she just wants to differentiate from Caddy, then she's just fighting for the table scraps left by the Germans and Japanese who've been eating Detroit's lunch in luxo cars for at least a decade. 2 - She appears clueless as to what image Lincoln is trying to shake (the blue-hair-set-car, riding in a straight line like on your sofa - ie: travelling well?) or what Lincoln has been doing to change their image before she took over. The LS (best American sedan ever tested by Consumer's Reports), handling like a BMW, a 5-speed LS in one of the original TV ads, carving out a twisty road, ... OK, so the LS is it so far really. Can anyone see this tag line applied to an LS??? It's just sooo incredibly stoopid, I'm at a loss.
I asked my wife to read and comment on this thread this AM. She was in marketing for a while at a computer company, though she is loathe to admit it. She made a great points I think as to how a competitor, Cadillac I guess since apparently AB is unconcerned with the real competition, could make hay by turning this tag line on Lincoln. Say ... picture a TC or Conti "travelling well" down the road, dum dee do be dee dee dum, then the voiceover says "There are those who travel well" then we hear an engine roar in background, "and those who DRIVE" just as a CTS or Deville or one of the new actual CARS that Caddy has in their pipeline zips around the Lincoln and disappears around a curve. Flash to the 70 yr old Lincoln travellers surprised looks. I gotta get Whit in touch with Caddy's ad agency.
And speaking of cars in the pipeline - what the !??& (OK, Pat? :>) is Lincoln doing about some updated cars??? The Mark VIII, actually quite a good handling and great performing coupe, has been gone for 4 years, 5 in a few months. The Conti is disappearing and the Town Car now looks like the $15000 cheaper Marquis. Where the >?*( is another DEW 98 vehicle - coupe? convertible? smaller 3-Series killer? Oh, that's right. They killed it for budget reasons. But there's money for another SUV - the Aviator, a smaller clone of the Navigator, and yet *another* SUV to show up in LM showrooms soon - a Mercury-badged Ford Escape. So, that'll be 4 SUVs for LM and only 2 cars: LS, TC for Lincoln. At least Mercury will have the Marauder. RIP the rest of the Merc line.
And they still have, as funkcity pointed out, ***$257,000,000*** for ADVERTISING last year? (And that does NOT INCLUDE event sponsorship like the estimated $25 million spent on US Open sponsorship.) So Anne's budget is in the neighborhood of $300 million or more and Lincoln's sales are off, what 20, 30%? But there's no money for a new vehicle?
Based on the tiny number of Lincoln ads I've seen on TV, in magazines and newspapers or heard on the radio, I figure Dodge and BMW must each have marketing budgets of appx $400 Billion. I mean, what advertising has anyone seen for Lincoln??? Hmmm?? Where oh where does that money go?
Speakin of money going - I read today that good ole Jaques, after helping guide Ford to a $5.5 Billion loss, is walking away with about $27 Million in his pocket. Also, Ford settled the discrimination suits based on Nasser's policies, cutting more $$$ from the bottom line. At least he's gone.
I recall the mktg gal at Mania 3. I don't know if anything we said got thru. I do recall the discussion turning for a while to what would be the preferred way to increase LS performance, given a few choices. I recall Jonathon specifically tying the question to Lincoln's theme of "American Luxury." In that context, I recall almost everyone agreeing on the proper modifications to make. There IS meaning in that phrase. We found it. Now, what if he had said "How should we improve LS performance in the context of "Travelling well"? I can't imagine an answer.
Brian: Yes, I haven't seen any "Travelling Well" ads yet, in fact I've seen but a few Lincoln ads at all in a long time (perhaps because I surf away when commercials come on TV). But I honestly can't conceive of any way they can positively influence Lincoln's image, let alone that of the LS, with this theme. I know, those Madison Ave folks are geniuses and I'll be proven wrong. Right.
CdnPin: Your statement "One may be better off with a company that actually understands enthusiasts (the whole company, not just the engineers)" really hits home in this context. Seriously, folks, if you're in the market for a sports sedan, are you going to feel more inclined to buy one that promises you'll "Travel Well", or would you be pulled toward the car that defines itself as "The Ultimate Driving Machine" ???
lolaj: You're absolutely right, this tag harkens back to the sofa-on-wheels days, rather than the BMW-killer days the LS once seemed to be a harbinger of.
Brian again: Do you really think the tag "American Luxury" ticked off any Town Car buyers? If anything I'd think they'd tend to be more patriotic.
Brian again: Did you realize that you paraphrased another luxury maker's tag line in your first sentence of #8279? A tag line that actually makes a point about their cars vis-a-vis price and value.
Brian again: Well, if the old TC buyers are gonna get upset at performance driving ads, they won't be going to Cadillac - have you seen the CTS race track commercial? It's actually GOOD, and would have been great for the manual LS ads of yore.
ezair: I don't know if this is a death sentence for the LS, but it seems to me to do nothing to further the direction of Lincoln's image toward the type of car the LS is.
I sincerely hope you're right, Brian. I'm sure we all do, but we haven't had a response like this since GIOWA departed. That's got to tell you something. Those of us who have seen the future know the car fulfils the promise. But we're already sold on it.
When my son came home from work today (age 24), I told him about it. His uniform shirt has the Lincoln logo with "American Luxury" emblazoned below it. His reaction was a sarcastic "wow, that's really interesting." Do you think the dealer is going to get new uniforms for everyone that say "travel well"? My wife's reaction was a quizzical look. We decided over dinner that it would be perfect for Amtrak.
I'd like to be optimistic & take a let's wait & see attitude, as you suggest. Past ad campaigns have me a little jittery, though. Then I peer into the graveyard and see the Capri (Fox body), Merkur/Scorpio, Mark 8, the current Cougar, the previous Cougar, and--all hail the latest moribund nameplate-Blackwood-an answer to a question nobody asked. Think I have a right to be a little nervous?
On the other hand... I know most of you have not seen a beautiful ad posted in..(of all publications?) Vanity Fair. They showed an ultra stylistic, very powerful-looking LS appearing through a smoke/fog type of effect. A very unique 10 page layout of actors, actresses, Pop Stars etc. and a very understated classy presentation of the Lincoln SUVs and cars. Without a doubt the finest Lincoln ads I have ever seen. ......I just happened to see it in a waiting room.
Probably a product of their new ad people?
So, You have to ask... Who is their target audience??
I followed a guy onto the studio lot I work at the other day. He was driving an M5. I had to check out that demographic thing. With white/grey hair he was 60ish going on 30!
Sh*t, he'll never get old and I don't really care to either! So puleeze lets implore LM to sell it, make it exciting. We can only profit from their success:-)!
Hey Brian, Maybe you can reach one of the marketing types and ask them...Just what were/are they thinking?
I called Olsen, but they were closed. Finally found a website for them, and they still show 4 01 LS's in stock, three V8's. Did the ad have a stock # or any other details? It at least inspired me to look local, but only found one dealer in Atlanta with a 2001 listed on their on-line inventory. I've e-mailed them for a quote.
Nebraska is a long way to go to save a few dollars, but I've done stranger things...
Gag. Man, I hope they do something good with that, if it's possible. All it makes me think is "I am older than 34 of the 50 states, and I live for pot luck dinners." Maybe, please someone sacrifice to the auto gods, this can be spun both ways, traveling comfortably if that's your gig, or traveling like a scalded cat on mountain roads if that's what you consider traveling well, but my hopes aren't high.
I just read the article. "Belec said the new voiceover will "help us establish that Lincoln is about not just the driver but everyone traveling in the vehicle. It's the entire experience - about style, comfort, elegance."" I'll say it again. My passengers don't experience much style (it's very difficult to see the exterior of the car from the INSIDE!), they are comfortable (when they aren't white-knuckling it as I'm blasting around the twisties) and as to elegance, well, the style of the LS anyway, speakes for itself. BTW, just how do you experience elegance in a car anyway? Do the cupholders pour your drink too? Do the seats all have heated massage? Does a massuse (sp) come with the car? Or is that for the TC crowd as they pull up to the black tie affair? This campaign would go well with the Blackwood. Oh yea, it's DEAD! If L/M spent as much $$$ advertising the LS as they do the Navigator (which practically sells itself), they couldn't keep them on the lot!
cdnpinhead: I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand we own a collector car. Kinda like the Edsel of the 21st Century. On the other hand, it's kinda like the Edsel. "The LS was a Lincoln, right?"!
Mike LLSOC Charter Member, who always liked the Edsel!
I can't believe that none of the posts attacking Anne Belec haven't been deleted yet, with a hearty reminder about the "terms of use" of this board. I have seen a terrible attack of character based on an advertising tag-line, but perhaps we know better.
Jim Rogers rode in on the highest point of Lincoln popularity, new LS and the Navigator, both selling in record numbers. He was able to surpass Caddy for that year, based on the fact that there was no competition out there yet. The LS was his "baby" and he followed up on every press release about it. He was on this board as much for himself, as well as for everyone who purchased one! His interest in the LS is still extremely high, but he's been promoted out of the everyday life of the car.
Many bemoan that there isn't more substainative monitoring by the Lincoln brass on his board. Tell me, after these cheeky blasts about the brass, would your desire be to post on this board after the latest lambasting and personal attacks? Why were the personal attacks allowed, I can not say. Why were they made, probably because ill informed people took offence to what Anne said in an interview, which may or may not truly indicate her personal feelings regarding the subject.
The history of the industry is filled with examples of attempting to define a market segment, regardless of which vehicle we are talking about. Tag-lines are changed rather rapidly in the quest for more sales, but they never imply that the manufacture is about to abandon the segment entirely. It is a grasp for air, that may well be changed within a year or two itself.
The entire subject of the advertising was brought up at Mania III, and many took detailed notes about our concerns. I don't believe that Lincoln would leave us "out to dry" regarding the LS, it's just that they themselves might have problems knowing how to advertise such a vehicle. BMW has had over 30 years to figure this out, MB has had over 50 years, and the Japanese are artful at exploiting past successes in marketing, Lincoln and Cadillac have never really faced up to or faced their competition directly. They are learning, but maybe not at the speed you desire.
I would also point out that there are people on this board who constantly complain about facets of this car, as it was never equipped from the factory. When we bought our car, we should have known what option were available, if the vehicle didn't suit our needs, we could have bought elsewhere. But no, we would rather trivialize Lincoln's decisions not to equip a vehicle rather that to remember that we had a choice in our purchase.
Everyone who has personally attacked Anne should apologize post haste for your rude behavior. To hide behind the anonymous identity the web offers to attack someone's character because you don't agree with their decision is just wrong! Who knows, maybe this was the best option she was given as far as tag-lines. I believe her job is all of the Lincoln product line, not only the LS!
Once again, you've confirmed my belief that this is the bottom of the food chain. Nothing but whiners with opinions and opinionated whiners. You have no idea what her job entails, but you already know better than she does. Her hands are probably tied as far as new products, so she has to sell the sizzle from the steak.
FREE AT LAST! THANK GOD ALMIGHTY WE ARE FREE AT LAST!
BON reports on a Financial Times article dtd Apr. 11 that Lincoln is about to be kicked out of the PAG Group. Maybe with Dearborn management, the LS won't have to play second-fiddle to the S-type and we can have the improved or even better goodies.
Since Reitzle is based in London, I don't believe he has a clue what to do with Lincoln and how to properly market the LS(Travels Well??? Ugh!).
I say good riddance. Just let the Lincoln team loose, give them proper development funds and I will bet we will have a BMW/MERCEDES killer in 2005.
I still remember being reprimanded on Reitzle's orders after the Mania III tour made too much noise as we toured PAG Headquarters and "we were disturbing his little meeting." He should have come out and greeted the LLSOC Members who have put their own money on the line and actually purchased a Lincoln LS. That would have been classy. Sometimes you just can't find the stairs down from an Ivory Tower.
Anne has had sufficient time to introduce herself. Reitzle had sufficient notice to at least recognize our presence. And I do feel kind of ignored as a manual driver as to the fate of the 3 pedal model for 2003. Hopefully, Lincoln management knows how easy it would be to communicate with us on this board and remove our anxieties about advertising and many other subjects. Are these people still alive? Did Jac take them with him to Tahiti? Did Lutz recruit them to build his supercars? Were the engineers let go?
packv12 Your points about personal attacks are well founded. It's not fair or justified.
I am absolutely certain that in their corporate minds they(LM) "feel" they are doing the right thing. (Just as Pontiac thought that building the Aztec was the right thing!) However, I'm sure these folks from LM take a heck of a beating in their own board rooms. That said, they can certainly handle what this board dishes out.
It is out of disapointment that a lot of these posts are composed. If it appears less than politically-correct then so be it. I for one like the fact that people stir-it-up, and speak their minds. We too have to deal with WAY too much PC in our own daily jobs. So I feel this board is a safe "vent" if you will. :-)
If you believe half of what you read then you/we must know that LM is going through major changes. Removal from PAG? (Hey we just had a wonderful time at Mania 3 at the beautiful PAG HQ !) Management changes, low sales numbers, Marketing philosophy etc... There has got to be a lot of CYA-to-keep-your-job going on. This usually results in poor decision making.
I wondered as to the viability of Mercury surviving as they appear to me to be "redundant", and totally unappealing. But now even Lincoln comes under corporate microscope. People wonder as to the survival of the Lincoln "aberration", the LS.
So yes LM should say something. WE ARE FANS. WE LOVE THE LS PERIOD. WE WANT MORE INFO!
But not totally unlike good parents, many of us have collectively voiced our displeasure with some of the latest goings-on. It cuts both ways. The McClaren LS response is "Excellent, Well Done"! The new tag line response is "What the hell happened!"
Maybe we should "float" our own tag lines here? (whether sarcastic, humorous, or legitimate)
ie: (This will be bad!)
The Lincoln LS "beneath the surface lives a hot-rod Lincoln" "Not your old man's ride" "Elegance and Performance" "Euro-American Ingenuity at its finest" "Sometimes a company has to step out" "For those who demand THE unique driving experience"
Yeah, that's why I am not in marketing!! But you know, bottom line, if we kicked some phrases around between a group of enthusiasts, we know, we ALL know we could do a lot better than "Travelling Well"!
I must have missed something along the way here. What part of life is exempt from having to shake off personal attacks? There will always be someone who thinks you are a total ###. And unless one becomes a hermit or a monk learning to tolerate and grow from such attacks is a requirement of life. I sincerely doubt anyone who has proven themselves worthy of being promoted to such a position is going to lose sleep over the ravings of we few motor head deviants. We know what the LS is capable of and the new tag line seems to be the exact opposite. Why shouldn't we be upset? Why shouldn't we be permitted to express our views? I am certain that if we were becoming totally out of hand as is being suggested Pat would soon set us straight, as he ought.
And what is meant by: "To hide behind the anonymous identity the web." No one is hiding here. All one has to do is click on the user name and a profile appears providing the users real name and as much other information as the user wants known about him/her.
Perhaps those who get upset from others think of them can close their eyes, go to that "special place" and think good thoughts so they can feel better. The rest of us have learned to have our Nomex ready to put on at a moments notice, and to continue living.
Why can't there be a Travel Well commercial that shows an LS roaring down a two lane road, and another Travel Well showing the TC pulling up to a classy restaurant with a smiling valet parker, and another Travel Well showing a bunch of kids with Mom getting into an Aviator/Navigator after a soccer game? Words and slogans means nothing, it's the visual image that sticks.
It's true that the Lincoln's market is getting on in years, but there's another group of 55 and up right behind them.
The European and Asian attacks and gains on the US market didn't just happen overnight, but the TC still (I think) sells pretty well, so where did these buyers come from? What were they driving before they bought the TC? I see a lot more TC's on the road than high level imports, and maybe that's because most of us, once we go on fixed incomes, can't afford the Lexus 430 or BMW 7 series with high initial costs and high maintenance costs.
I bought a TC in 1989 for long trips, vacation driving, and times when I needed to carry four plus adults in comfort, but MY car was a TurboCoupe. I still have the TC, but the TurboCoupe is gone, replaced by a 94 TBird LX 4.6.
There's plenty of room in today's market for different types of Lincolns. One size does not have to fit all.
I still remember an old TC commercial showing a TC owner stepping out of a restaurant, giving his keys to the valet saying "the Lincoln TownCar, please" while all the GMotors owners were confused trying to figure out which cars being driven up were their Buicks, Caddys, Old's, etc. Except for the owner's statement, it was the image that hit home, not the voice over.
I'd love to see an LS commercial done the same way with all the BMW owners wondering which BMW is theirs.
If I live to be 110 years old I could never see my self driving or riding in a Town Car. Every day there are more and more over 60 people who feel the same way and are buying Mercedes, Lexus, Infintity or whatever. If Lincoln quit wasting money on coming up with wimpy tag lines that do nothing to sell cars and spent some $$ on engineerng developing a new TC that would appeal to someone under age 70 sales would be up and the over 70 crowd would still be buying TC's and never notice that the handling was now good, the brakes worked and the body didn't dive and roll.
Let's face it the over 70 crowd who are buying Town Cars are buying them because when they were growing up Lincolns were cool and signified affluence. Let's be real the high point for Lincoln was the 1961-1965 Continential and other than a few odd ball misfit Lincoln's like the MK-VIII & LS the rest of the Lincoln product line has been pathetic. I have first hand experience here as my Father-in-Law is a Town Car driver and fits evey stereo type you can come with about Town Car owners. His definition of a luxury car is that you can turn the steering wheel with you pinky finger! Although I have sold him several of my ex-company Taurus', my mother-in-law preferes to drive her Taurus over the Town Car, my father-in-law has to always tell me that the Taurus is a cheap car because the steering wheel is so hard to turn. He is completely clueless as to why I got a LS and thinks that I bought a baby Lincoln because I'm trying to drive a Luxury status symbol like his Town Car but can't afford a Town Car. I have given up trying to explain to him that the average selling price after all incentives is higher on a LS than a Town Car.
The problem for Lincoln is that within 20 years my Father-in-law will be gone from this planet and I'll be over 65 years old and the last thing in the world I'll be driving is a Town Car, no matter how well me and my companions will be traveling.
Comments
The Lincoln site is now promoting 1.9% 36 Month Financing in my market (Northern Virginia). This is roughly a $2,100 discount versus a 6% 36 month loan. I see no rebate, and Edmunds says no dealer cash, so I'm not sure where a dealer would come up with the money to sell at $3,000 below invoice. Holdback on these guys is only $700 to $800.
The Lincoln site is now promoting 1.9% 36 Month Financing in my market (Northern Virginia). This is roughly a $2,100 discount versus a 6% 36 month loan. I see no rebate, and Edmunds says no dealer cash, so I'm not sure where a dealer would come up with the money to sell at $3,000 below invoice. Holdback on these guys is only $700 to $800.
Turned 45k miles today, 18 month old late build '00. One failed window regulator. One burned out light bulb. A tiny rattle in the driver's door, but only if the temp is below 10F. Driven fast on rough highways every day in all weather. 23-24 mpg in 75% highway commuting. What's not to like? I've got a 60 month, 6% loan, and not even the great deals mentioned above can cause me any regret. It's better than the day I brought it home.
Scott
LLSOC Member
What do you think that makes my 00 worth. Had I leased it I wouldn't care. Such is life.
I would have to think that is a demo with many miles or a damaged car. Does the state you live in require a dealer to inform potential buyers of new cars of previous damage? I live in Maryland and we have such a law here. When I was looking I had a slime ball salesman call me with a "deal" on a car he said got scratched and was repaired. I drove 30 min to look at the car and while I was there the scratched story grew to a small dent story. A little while later it grew to "we had to replace the rear fender" This slow release of info over the course of an hour grew to the owners daughter wiped out the whole right side of the car after leaving the road and the body shop bill came to over $6,000. The really funny part was the salesmanager said he couldn't sell the car for what the salesman had quoted but that he had to get regular price for the car. This all happened at Al Packer Lincoln Mercury one of the sleezest Lincoln Mercury dealers out there. You know the type....... advertise big trade dollars while selling the uneducated the new ride at list price. Or they advertise used cars at hot prices and when you get there the car was driven around the world 6 times. Oh and $600 "gold" packages that cost the dealer $35.
In a bold move undoubtedly proving her worth as a highly-paid Ford executive, she has decided what's needed to float Lincoln's boat is to ... Wow!, drop the tag line "American Luxury" from Lincoln advertising. Absolute genius, eh? Gone is the association of Lincoln with America and Luxury. What was that about anyway, huh?
SO now it's official, raise the curtain (not the flag) for the new tag line for Lincoln ... "Travel well with Lincoln." Now ain't that a catchy tune, huh? Oooh, I gotta get me one of those travel well cars! Augmented by "There are those who travel, and those who travel well." Yeah, and there are those who design and engineer cars and there are those who get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to dream up this asinine B__l S__t.
Gawd. "Travel well". Now there's a line that'll change people's perception of Lincoln. Edgy, forward-looking, real powerfully modern. Travel well. Like maybe you feel like you're travelling on your living room SOFA, Anne?
"Customers were telling us that 'American luxury' defined the area we're competing in but was not saying how Lincoln is different from other American luxury brands," Belec said. Hey, Anne, that's YOUR job, to describe how Lincoln is different. Does "travel well" describe how Lincoln is different? What, so the Lexus, Cadillac and BMW drivers are "travelling not-so-good"? or what? fer gawd's sake. And what's this about "different from other American luxury brands"??? **There's only one other**, Anne. The point was, IMNSHO, to differentiate Lincoln from ALL lux brands, especially foreign, wasn't it? And to out-do Cadillac in American-ism in the process.
MAybe if Anne had once, just once, introduced herself to the captive audience of informed, interested customers here, I wouldn't be so hard on her. Nah, after all, I'm an engineer. To me Marketing is .. well like mammaries on a male bovine. Sorry, Jim.
OK, the drugs have kicked in, I can relax again ...
So, good night.
Be well.
Sleep well.
Wake well.
Travel to work well.
Welly, welly well.
George
http://www.autoweek.com
Belec said the new voiceover will "help us establish that Lincoln is about not just the driver but everyone traveling in the vehicle. It's the entire experience - about style, comfort, elegance"
** Whew!! Give me a break
Lincoln Mercury spent $257.2 million in 01 on advertizing.
Say how can I get some of that? It sure dosn't take much creativity. ESPECIALLY where our beloved LSes are concerned. Too bad Lutz went to GM
funkcity........Out
How do these people ever get to this level of corporate America????
Really now, did you expect any less after JR spoiled us with his level of participation?
I've got to back to work now. Some of my co-workers work, but I work really well, Y'all have well day now, hear?
Was it our Bavarian friends with the commercial a few years back where an accident was avoided by applying the car's power and handling characteristics?
I think that was directed to a different audience.
Even though the Autoextremest.com guys (former GM ad agency types) have hailed the demise of "Amerian Luxury" they haven't explained how "Travel Well" is any better?
But I do agree with the Autoextremest guys that the 3 most important things in this business are #1 product, #2 product and #3 product. Why are Lincoln sales down? Do you think that it is because the ad campaigns were tagged with "American Luxury"? Or, could it be because:
1. The Continental is a great engine stuffed in a 7 year old over bloated Taurus unibody.
2. The last Town Car body design appealed to neither traditional Town Car buyers, limo conversion companies, nor potential new Lincoln customers.
3. That under all that Town Car sheet metal is a warmed over 1981 Ford Crown Victoria with a wimpy engine, dated transmission, horrible steering, tons of body roll and mediocre brakes.
4. That as good as the LS is, it's an island product for Lincoln that has little in common with other Lincoln models, doesn't appeal to TC or Conti buyers hence Lincoln has no product line synergy.
5. That the MK-VIII was left to die with no replacement.
6. That Lincoln wasted a huge amount of engineering and marketing $$ on a micro niche product called the Blackwood.
7. That Lincoln has spent a large amount of $$ on SUV's for everyone just as that market niche is peaking and is now suffering from over supply with too many SUV models and SUV brands in the market.
8. That Lincoln has no image leading product that would define "American Luxury".
I'm still old school. If you make a great product and sell it for a reasonable price, they will beat your doors down to buy it. You roll out marketing when no one wants to buy what you have.
In the article, she states...
Belec said the new voiceover will "help us establish that Lincoln is about not just the driver but everyone traveling in the vehicle. It's the entire experience - about style, comfort, elegance."
Does this sound like a come-on for a younger buyer? What about performance, safety, and quality? Her words sound like a TC commercial for those who want to be driven...not for those who want to drive.
I hope this is not indicative of a redirection of Lincoln's commitment (and need) to attract younger buyers.
Joe
Charter member LLSOC
If you took the millions mis-spent on marketing and put it in product, it would be more obvious. For every marketing exec fired, you could hire two engineers. And we could all be driving McClaren LSes for under 40k.
You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Hey, Anne, the street talks. Get out with the boys on the street. And listen.
...5 to 1 odds Lincoln is out of business before my LS hits the grave yard....
where id Jim go agin?
Thanks to akirby for the tire comments, and I can't believe you guys didn't flame the hell out of me for my anti-horse power comments. What does it take get a few sparks flying these days.
Scott
Relatively new LLSOC member
Nobody ever needs a limited slip differential or a 6-speed manual transmission. The non-OD Getrag 5-speed manual and electronic traction control work perfectly under all circumstances.
There. That ought to do it. :-)
(just kidding Stan - don't blow a gasket!!)
I really wish my information had been wrong!
Also,
Anne did NOT do this all by herself. There were a lot of brown-nosers responsible. The ad people were not present at Mania 3 but they should have been. They are now responsible for confusing the image of Lincoln EVEN MORE!
The McLaren LS is a brilliant HP model.
I can only imagine how they will or will not promote it. (Not being an official Lincoln product)
If the big-gun factory LS is not due until 05 then a lot of sales and or promotion could be seriously lost by then....and then it would be back to SUVs and Limos!
Marketing;
* Build the product
* Create the positive buzz
* The LLSOC is a start and I am sure many of us would be happy to help FOR FREE!
* The LS target is BMW period
My friend just bought a new 530
His wife just bought a new 325
Lincoln was never even an optional thought
It might have been however.
But they have been consistent in their driving message.
Someone will have to step up or...
It's worth complaining about, though. The warranty is bumper-to-bumper.
I guess some B-pillars are holding up while others are holding up well.
Artie
Charter Member, LLSOC
If you're inclined to be in possession of a vehicle in which you're the only occupant 99.3% of the time. . .buy your car elsewhere (and don't let the door hit you on the way out). Someone seems to have decided that the marketing approach created for the LS was a mistake: omigod, we've alienated the white-hairs -- let's kiss up. Bottom line -- not only is my LS manual an orphan. . .the whole damn LS concept appears to have been cast adrift.
Travelling and driving are so, so different. I travel a lot. I fly (or at least the airplanes I ride in do), I ride buses, subways and ferrys. Travelling well is so different from driving well (especially when performance is factored in) that it's apparent (in spades) that Lincoln marketing has chosen to tell us to stuff it. When I drive, I'm in control. More often than not, when I'm travelling, I'm not. Anyone (who actually bought the car) want to opine regarding what will happen to resale value? Who remembers the Merkur (forgive the spelling)?
Sometimes a leap of faith goes directly into an abyss. One may be better off with a company that actually understands enthusiasts (the whole company, not just the engineers).
Help me get right with this. . .assuming it's possible.
Anyway I'll see what the dealer says. Hopefully it's an easy fix.
Sorry Lincoln, I don't relate too well with the well-heeled set that would rather be driven to their destination than be an active participant in the journey. My impression of this campaign is that Lincoln is reverting back to focusing on their "OLD" clientele. I guess they're not dead yet!
If you guys think Lincoln is going to alienate the Navigator and LS markets, which are Lincoln's future markets, by placing an ad campaign that is more Fig Newtons and prune juice, than appealing to the younger audience that buys these vehicles, I think you're off base.
Lincoln cannot afford to tick off the older folks that buy the Town Car. They are old, affluent and have reliably bought Lincolns for who knows how long. So Lincoln can't afford to alienate them at the same time that they have to cater to us "young guns". Not an easy row to how as it were.
So if you were Lincoln how do you do it? Can't do a corporate image showing that driving is actually fun because then all the old ones go away to Cadillac. So do you start with a rather generic statement and work each model into it with it's own unique personality while keeping the vanilla corporate standard?
Brian
I love my 2002 LS manual but I love the tag line on an ad for Acura (I think) ..."and what gear did you dream in?"
Considering the Lincoln ad campaign has been pretty weak following the first year of LS production, hopefully no one will notice. However, if people do notice, it's only because they forgot to hit the snooze button . . .
I'll stop rambling now. I, too, hope Brian is right.
Stan, what a GREAT idea! I was thinking of many roads on which I'd like to take Anne for a ride! Brian, Jeff and Ray, remember that road on the way home from Julian? That would be perfect!
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member and LS lover!
I don't get "Travel Well" but then I don't get most advertising. The last car commercial I remember liking was the car-chasing dog running splat into the back of a parked Toyota that supposedly looks fast standing still. But I still don't want a Toyota. So who am I to say what works? "American Luxury" didn't sell me my LS; the old-timers on this board got me interested and the car did the rest.
We've heard from at least one prominent person within Lincoln that the LS is at the leading edge of the new "Lincoln DNA". Personally, I don't care what slogans or buzzwords the Madison Ave. geniuses throw around as long as they keep building cars like this.
Scott
LLSOC Member
I'm still waiting to hear how Lincoln will serve two/three masters. The 1) hearse crowd has been described ad nasuem (the blue hairs) ,2) then there's the huge SUV contingent (that's huge SUV, not huge contingent), then 3) finally, the LS crowd.
Seriously (as if I were capable), what is Lincoln trying to be?
A couple years ago I thought they wanted to compete with BMW.
Now I'm way beyond "not so sure." Apparently the new ads will make us all feel better. I can hardly wait.
BTW, I just ponied up for two more years of LLSOC, and I'm a "charter member." I just deleted an especially non-PC bit, but the upshot was, I need to understand (or at least be on the same planet with) the replacement for Mr. Rodgers. The new person appears to have absolutely no connection with this board or with LLSOC. I may have missed the postings that described her participation in either the bulletin board or the LLSOC events.
Forgive me. I travel a lot.
1 - She does not understand who Lincoln is competing with (hint- it ain't just Cadillac). If she just wants to differentiate from Caddy, then she's just fighting for the table scraps left by the Germans and Japanese who've been eating Detroit's lunch in luxo cars for at least a decade.
2 - She appears clueless as to what image Lincoln is trying to shake (the blue-hair-set-car, riding in a straight line like on your sofa - ie: travelling well?) or what Lincoln has been doing to change their image before she took over. The LS (best American sedan ever tested by Consumer's Reports), handling like a BMW, a 5-speed LS in one of the original TV ads, carving out a twisty road, ... OK, so the LS is it so far really. Can anyone see this tag line applied to an LS??? It's just sooo incredibly stoopid, I'm at a loss.
I asked my wife to read and comment on this thread this AM. She was in marketing for a while at a computer company, though she is loathe to admit it. She made a great points I think as to how a competitor, Cadillac I guess since apparently AB is unconcerned with the real competition, could make hay by turning this tag line on Lincoln. Say ... picture a TC or Conti "travelling well" down the road, dum dee do be dee dee dum, then the voiceover says "There are those who travel well" then we hear an engine roar in background, "and those who DRIVE" just as a CTS or Deville or one of the new actual CARS that Caddy has in their pipeline zips around the Lincoln and disappears around a curve. Flash to the 70 yr old Lincoln travellers surprised looks. I gotta get Whit in touch with Caddy's ad agency.
And speaking of cars in the pipeline - what the !??& (OK, Pat? :>) is Lincoln doing about some updated cars??? The Mark VIII, actually quite a good handling and great performing coupe, has been gone for 4 years, 5 in a few months. The Conti is disappearing and the Town Car now looks like the $15000 cheaper Marquis. Where the >?*( is another DEW 98 vehicle - coupe? convertible? smaller 3-Series killer? Oh, that's right. They killed it for budget reasons. But there's money for another SUV - the Aviator, a smaller clone of the Navigator, and yet *another* SUV to show up in LM showrooms soon - a Mercury-badged Ford Escape. So, that'll be 4 SUVs for LM and only 2 cars: LS, TC for Lincoln. At least Mercury will have the Marauder. RIP the rest of the Merc line.
And they still have, as funkcity pointed out, ***$257,000,000*** for ADVERTISING last year? (And that does NOT INCLUDE event sponsorship like the estimated $25 million spent on US Open sponsorship.) So Anne's budget is in the neighborhood of $300 million or more and Lincoln's sales are off, what 20, 30%? But there's no money for a new vehicle?
Based on the tiny number of Lincoln ads I've seen on TV, in magazines and newspapers or heard on the radio, I figure Dodge and BMW must each have marketing budgets of appx $400 Billion. I mean, what advertising has anyone seen for Lincoln??? Hmmm?? Where oh where does that money go?
Speakin of money going - I read today that good ole Jaques, after helping guide Ford to a $5.5 Billion loss, is walking away with about $27 Million in his pocket. Also, Ford settled the discrimination suits based on Nasser's policies, cutting more $$$ from the bottom line. At least he's gone.
I recall the mktg gal at Mania 3. I don't know if anything we said got thru. I do recall the discussion turning for a while to what would be the preferred way to increase LS performance, given a few choices. I recall Jonathon specifically tying the question to Lincoln's theme of "American Luxury." In that context, I recall almost everyone agreeing on the proper modifications to make. There IS meaning in that phrase. We found it. Now, what if he had said "How should we improve LS performance in the context of "Travelling well"? I can't imagine an answer.
Brian: Yes, I haven't seen any "Travelling Well" ads yet, in fact I've seen but a few Lincoln ads at all in a long time (perhaps because I surf away when commercials come on TV). But I honestly can't conceive of any way they can positively influence Lincoln's image, let alone that of the LS, with this theme. I know, those Madison Ave folks are geniuses and I'll be proven wrong. Right.
CdnPin: Your statement "One may be better off with a company that actually understands enthusiasts (the whole company, not just the engineers)" really hits home in this context. Seriously, folks, if you're in the market for a sports sedan, are you going to feel more inclined to buy one that promises you'll "Travel Well", or would you be pulled toward the car that defines itself as "The Ultimate Driving Machine" ???
lolaj: You're absolutely right, this tag harkens back to the sofa-on-wheels days, rather than the BMW-killer days the LS once seemed to be a harbinger of.
Brian again: Do you really think the tag "American Luxury" ticked off any Town Car buyers? If anything I'd think they'd tend to be more patriotic.
Brian again: Did you realize that you paraphrased another luxury maker's tag line in your first sentence of #8279? A tag line that actually makes a point about their cars vis-a-vis price and value.
Brian again: Well, if the old TC buyers are gonna get upset at performance driving ads, they won't be going to Cadillac - have you seen the CTS race track commercial? It's actually GOOD, and would have been great for the manual LS ads of yore.
ezair: I don't know if this is a death sentence for the LS, but it seems to me to do nothing to further the direction of Lincoln's image toward the type of car the LS is.
How does it feel to own a car that the corporation wishes had never been introduced?
When my son came home from work today (age 24), I told him about it. His uniform shirt has the Lincoln logo with "American Luxury" emblazoned below it. His reaction was a sarcastic "wow, that's really interesting." Do you think the dealer is going to get new uniforms for everyone that say "travel well"? My wife's reaction was a quizzical look. We decided over dinner that it would be perfect for Amtrak.
I'd like to be optimistic & take a let's wait & see attitude, as you suggest. Past ad campaigns have me a little jittery, though. Then I peer into the graveyard and see the Capri (Fox body), Merkur/Scorpio, Mark 8, the current Cougar, the previous Cougar, and--all hail the latest moribund nameplate-Blackwood-an answer to a question nobody asked. Think I have a right to be a little nervous?
I know most of you have not seen a beautiful ad posted in..(of all publications?) Vanity Fair.
They showed an ultra stylistic, very powerful-looking LS appearing through a smoke/fog type of effect.
A very unique 10 page layout of actors, actresses, Pop Stars etc. and a very understated classy presentation of the Lincoln SUVs and cars.
Without a doubt the finest Lincoln ads I have ever seen.
......I just happened to see it in a waiting room.
Probably a product of their new ad people?
So, You have to ask...
Who is their target audience??
I followed a guy onto the studio lot I work at the other day. He was driving an M5.
I had to check out that demographic thing.
With white/grey hair he was 60ish going on 30!
Sh*t, he'll never get old and I don't really care to either!
So puleeze lets implore LM to sell it, make it exciting.
We can only profit from their success:-)!
Hey Brian,
Maybe you can reach one of the marketing types and ask them...Just what were/are they thinking?
funkcity.......out
I called Olsen, but they were closed. Finally found a website for them, and they still show 4 01 LS's in stock, three V8's. Did the ad have a stock # or any other details? It at least inspired me to look local, but only found one dealer in Atlanta with a 2001 listed on their on-line inventory. I've e-mailed them for a quote.
Nebraska is a long way to go to save a few dollars, but I've done stranger things...
Anyone else have a line on left over 01s?
I'll say it again. My passengers don't experience much style (it's very difficult to see the exterior of the car from the INSIDE!), they are comfortable (when they aren't white-knuckling it as I'm blasting around the twisties) and as to elegance, well, the style of the LS anyway, speakes for itself. BTW, just how do you experience elegance in a car anyway? Do the cupholders pour your drink too? Do the seats all have heated massage? Does a massuse (sp) come with the car? Or is that for the TC crowd as they pull up to the black tie affair? This campaign would go well with the Blackwood. Oh yea, it's DEAD! If L/M spent as much $$$ advertising the LS as they do the Navigator (which practically sells itself), they couldn't keep them on the lot!
cdnpinhead: I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand we own a collector car. Kinda like the Edsel of the 21st Century. On the other hand, it's kinda like the Edsel. "The LS was a Lincoln, right?"!
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member, who always liked the Edsel!
Jim Rogers rode in on the highest point of Lincoln popularity, new LS and the Navigator, both selling in record numbers. He was able to surpass Caddy for that year, based on the fact that there was no competition out there yet. The LS was his "baby" and he followed up on every press release about it. He was on this board as much for himself, as well as for everyone who purchased one! His interest in the LS is still extremely high, but he's been promoted out of the everyday life of the car.
Many bemoan that there isn't more substainative monitoring by the Lincoln brass on his board. Tell me, after these cheeky blasts about the brass, would your desire be to post on this board after the latest lambasting and personal attacks? Why were the personal attacks allowed, I can not say. Why were they made, probably because ill informed people took offence to what Anne said in an interview, which may or may not truly indicate her personal feelings regarding the subject.
The history of the industry is filled with examples of attempting to define a market segment, regardless of which vehicle we are talking about. Tag-lines are changed rather rapidly in the quest for more sales, but they never imply that the manufacture is about to abandon the segment entirely. It is a grasp for air, that may well be changed within a year or two itself.
The entire subject of the advertising was brought up at Mania III, and many took detailed notes about our concerns. I don't believe that Lincoln would leave us "out to dry" regarding the LS, it's just that they themselves might have problems knowing how to advertise such a vehicle. BMW has had over 30 years to figure this out, MB has had over 50 years, and the Japanese are artful at exploiting past successes in marketing, Lincoln and Cadillac have never really faced up to or faced their competition directly. They are learning, but maybe not at the speed you desire.
I would also point out that there are people on this board who constantly complain about facets of this car, as it was never equipped from the factory. When we bought our car, we should have known what option were available, if the vehicle didn't suit our needs, we could have bought elsewhere. But no, we would rather trivialize Lincoln's decisions not to equip a vehicle rather that to remember that we had a choice in our purchase.
Everyone who has personally attacked Anne should apologize post haste for your rude behavior. To hide behind the anonymous identity the web offers to attack someone's character because you don't agree with their decision is just wrong! Who knows, maybe this was the best option she was given as far as tag-lines. I believe her job is all of the Lincoln product line, not only the LS!
Once again, you've confirmed my belief that this is the bottom of the food chain. Nothing but whiners with opinions and opinionated whiners. You have no idea what her job entails, but you already know better than she does. Her hands are probably tied as far as new products, so she has to sell the sizzle from the steak.
BON reports on a Financial Times article dtd Apr. 11 that Lincoln is about to be kicked out of the PAG Group. Maybe with Dearborn management, the LS won't have to play second-fiddle to the S-type and we can have the improved or even better goodies.
Since Reitzle is based in London, I don't believe he has a clue what to do with Lincoln and how to properly market the LS(Travels Well??? Ugh!).
I say good riddance. Just let the Lincoln team loose, give them proper development funds and I will bet we will have a BMW/MERCEDES killer in 2005.
I still remember being reprimanded on Reitzle's orders after the Mania III tour made too much noise as we toured PAG Headquarters and "we were disturbing his little meeting." He should have come out and greeted the LLSOC Members who have put their own money on the line and actually purchased a Lincoln LS. That would have been classy. Sometimes you just can't find the stairs down from an Ivory Tower.
And I do feel kind of ignored as a manual driver as to the fate of the 3 pedal model for 2003.
Hopefully, Lincoln management knows how easy it would be to communicate with us on this board and remove our anxieties about advertising and many other subjects.
Are these people still alive? Did Jac take them with him to Tahiti? Did Lutz recruit them to build his supercars? Were the engineers let go?
Your points about personal attacks are well founded. It's not fair or justified.
I am absolutely certain that in their corporate minds they(LM) "feel" they are doing the right thing.
(Just as Pontiac thought that building the Aztec was the right thing!)
However, I'm sure these folks from LM take a heck of a beating in their own board rooms. That said, they can certainly handle what this board dishes out.
It is out of disapointment that a lot of these posts are composed. If it appears less than politically-correct then so be it. I for one like the fact that people stir-it-up, and speak their minds. We too have to deal with WAY too much PC in our own daily jobs.
So I feel this board is a safe "vent" if you will. :-)
If you believe half of what you read then you/we must know that LM is going through major changes.
Removal from PAG? (Hey we just had a wonderful time at Mania 3 at the beautiful PAG HQ !)
Management changes, low sales numbers, Marketing philosophy etc...
There has got to be a lot of CYA-to-keep-your-job going on. This usually results in poor decision making.
I wondered as to the viability of Mercury surviving as they appear to me to be "redundant", and totally unappealing.
But now even Lincoln comes under corporate microscope. People wonder as to the survival of the Lincoln "aberration", the LS.
So yes LM should say something. WE ARE FANS.
WE LOVE THE LS PERIOD. WE WANT MORE INFO!
But not totally unlike good parents, many of us have collectively voiced our displeasure with some of the latest goings-on.
It cuts both ways.
The McClaren LS response is "Excellent, Well Done"!
The new tag line response is "What the hell happened!"
Maybe we should "float" our own tag lines here?
(whether sarcastic, humorous, or legitimate)
ie: (This will be bad!)
The Lincoln LS
"beneath the surface lives a hot-rod Lincoln"
"Not your old man's ride"
"Elegance and Performance"
"Euro-American Ingenuity at its finest"
"Sometimes a company has to step out"
"For those who demand THE unique driving experience"
Yeah, that's why I am not in marketing!!
But you know, bottom line, if we kicked some phrases around between a group of enthusiasts, we know, we ALL know we could do a lot better than "Travelling Well"!
Still looking for some Lincoln input...
funkcity.......out
And what is meant by: "To hide behind the anonymous identity the web." No one is hiding here. All one has to do is click on the user name and a profile appears providing the users real name and as much other information as the user wants known about him/her.
Perhaps those who get upset from others think of them can close their eyes, go to that "special place" and think good thoughts so they can feel better. The rest of us have learned to have our Nomex ready to put on at a moments notice, and to continue living.
Why can't there be a Travel Well commercial that shows an LS roaring down a two lane road, and another Travel Well showing the TC pulling up to a classy restaurant with a smiling valet parker, and another Travel Well showing a bunch of kids with Mom getting into an Aviator/Navigator after a soccer game? Words and slogans means nothing, it's the visual image that sticks.
It's true that the Lincoln's market is getting on in years, but there's another group of 55 and up right behind them.
The European and Asian attacks and gains on the US market didn't just happen overnight, but the TC still (I think) sells pretty well, so where did these buyers come from? What were they driving before they bought the TC? I see a lot more TC's on the road than high level imports, and maybe that's because most of us, once we go on fixed incomes, can't afford the Lexus 430 or BMW 7 series with high initial costs and high maintenance costs.
I bought a TC in 1989 for long trips, vacation driving, and times when I needed to carry four plus adults in comfort, but MY car was a TurboCoupe. I still have the TC, but the TurboCoupe is gone, replaced by a 94 TBird LX 4.6.
There's plenty of room in today's market for different types of Lincolns. One size does not have to fit all.
I still remember an old TC commercial showing a TC owner stepping out of a restaurant, giving his keys to the valet saying "the Lincoln TownCar, please" while all the GMotors owners were confused trying to figure out which cars being driven up were their Buicks, Caddys, Old's, etc. Except for the owner's statement, it was the image that hit home, not the voice over.
I'd love to see an LS commercial done the same way with all the BMW owners wondering which BMW is theirs.
If I live to be 110 years old I could never see my self driving or riding in a Town Car. Every day there are more and more over 60 people who feel the same way and are buying Mercedes, Lexus, Infintity or whatever. If Lincoln quit wasting money on coming up with wimpy tag lines that do nothing to sell cars and spent some $$ on engineerng developing a new TC that would appeal to someone under age 70 sales would be up and the over 70 crowd would still be buying TC's and never notice that the handling was now good, the brakes worked and the body didn't dive and roll.
Let's face it the over 70 crowd who are buying Town Cars are buying them because when they were growing up Lincolns were cool and signified affluence. Let's be real the high point for Lincoln was the 1961-1965 Continential and other than a few odd ball misfit Lincoln's like the MK-VIII & LS the rest of the Lincoln product line has been pathetic. I have first hand experience here as my Father-in-Law is a Town Car driver and fits evey stereo type you can come with about Town Car owners. His definition of a luxury car is that you can turn the steering wheel with you pinky finger! Although I have sold him several of my ex-company Taurus', my mother-in-law preferes to drive her Taurus over the Town Car, my father-in-law has to always tell me that the Taurus is a cheap car because the steering wheel is so hard to turn. He is completely clueless as to why I got a LS and thinks that I bought a baby Lincoln because I'm trying to drive a Luxury status symbol like his Town Car but can't afford a Town Car. I have given up trying to explain to him that the average selling price after all incentives is higher on a LS than a Town Car.
The problem for Lincoln is that within 20 years my Father-in-law will be gone from this planet and I'll be over 65 years old and the last thing in the world I'll be driving is a Town Car, no matter how well me and my companions will be traveling.