Lincoln LS

ls1bmw0

If you are driving in stop and go traffic, in other words, our typical SoCal crawl all the time, and you have the air on, I don't think you'll see too much better mileage. But if you have open road your mileage should be better.

If I have to do the 405 crawl and it's backed up for a long time, my mileage will drop way down from my typical 24 mpg average to about 17 or 16mpg. I have actually seen it average out at 10mpg but that was when I was busily chasing ezaircon through Julian for the day

Brian

mkovalsk

If you meet the conditions for Severe Service as definde in the Scheduled Maintanence Guide, then you should change the transmission fluid every 30,000 miles.

Mark

scottc8

3900 miles in a year? Is that right? In that case, even at 14 mpg that's about 5 gallons of gas a week. I'm not belittling your complaint, just making sure I've got the facts straight. If you're driving your car daily and have such few miles on it, you are never going to see the MPG this (or any) car is capable of. Short trips are killers; the mixture is rich at startup, and you get zero mpg at zero mph. What was your previous car, and how did it do in the same type of driving? gschwartz asks the best question: Have you ever burned a whole tank at a steady cruise?

I'm one of the proponents of "give it time", and you're not the first skeptic here. But I drive 450 miles per week and have watched my mileage closely. Between 4k and 5k my average went from around 18 to 21, and at the same time the engine began to rev more freely. At under 4k miles you might be just barely getting the engine broken in. My V8 is now just over 20k miles, the average has levelled off at 24 mpg and it will get almost 27 on a long interstate cruise. But it would not surprise me if it were down around 16-18 if it got nothing but stop-and-go driving.

Definitely ask the service advisor to check it out. They can quickly and easily run a full diagnostic, and you paid for that kind of service when you bought the car. But don't expect a miracle. And, before you get mad, read the "Fuel Economy Information" on your window sticker. Read the whole thing.

brucelinc

Thanks, Mark! (and scottc8, too) Mark, your participation and that of the other Lincoln folks, greatly contribute to my confidence in this car. I do not consider my type of driving "severe service" but I will probably change the fluid anyway. I am not really sure why the dipstick was eliminated. The refill procedure without it seems a little more difficult.

Bruce

ls1bmw0

The reason the dipstick was eliminated was to make the system a sealed system.

My .02 cents? If you have a doubt as to whether you should change the transmission fluid, change it. I look at it as cheap insurance compared to the cost of replacing an expensive transmission. Same with all the other fluids in the car.

Brian

giowa

Found the June '01 long-term road test review's comments interesting in light of the recent discussion about 30k tranny service issue. Edmunds' reviewer went with tranny service. Now says the service/tune up and new pint of fluid have significantly improved the tranny's perceived performance.

cdnpinhead

often becomes reality. Especially in today's political climate.

Here's the thing. Many of us bought the LS because it handled better than any other car available in North America for under 35K. Several of us were refugees from Miatas and other cars that handled well. . .but didn't have rear windows that fell down in 114 degree heat.

Others liked the LS styling and were surprised by some of the stuff that fell off as the car was used (nothing quite like reaching for the rear seat fold-down handle and having the whole assembly come off in your hand).

Now several of us are discussing whether the power offered by the LS is "adequate." Well, if you're me and want a manual, the field gets smaller quickly. Previous posts of mine need not be repeated here, but the point is, if one wants a manual with more than 220 hp and engine management that actually allows pleasant clutch engagement. . .

So I guess the deal is, if you're in the game, you'd better be prepared to play it. Can the LS compete with the Audi & BMW? I've done the research and decided the LS is superior to Infiniti & Lexus (at this price point), but I'm nowhere near convinced they compete favorably with the Huns (relax, I am one).

Brian, I'm extremely pleased that FLM was willing to share with you the coming attractions. That, with some assurance that the "teething" issues we've all had to deal with have been eliminated, would go a long way towards assuring me that my LS manual isn't an orphan.

News at 11?

brucelinc

I agree with you. I am more likely to over-maintain than under! My point on the dipstick, though not well stated, was why make it a sealed system if you still have to change the fluid on a regular basis?

I was originally under the impression that the sealed system and Mercon V were used to essentially make the tranny "maintentance free." Being a gearhead, I couldn't have lived with that, anyway!

Bruce

scottc8

Not for me either. I over-maintain, and it makes me feel good. Must be a "car guy" thing. If someone made 100k mile motor oil, or a towel that you could wipe over the car and get five years of wax protection, I wouldn't be interested. Still struggling with the concept of the 100k mile spark plug.

On transmission service: Couple years ago, I took my '95 Subaru Legacy to Grease Monkey and had their procedure done. (Please, no Grease Monkey horror stories. I'd been doing business at this one for a couple years and they are thorough & reliable.) They drained the ATF, including the converter, hooked up a pump/filter machine that circulated fluid through the tranny for about 15 minutes, then drained and refilled with new ATF. It made quite a difference in the perceived performance (nice phrase); 1-2 shift had been very abrupt under moderate throttle and it smoothed out. The car had about 90k on it at the time, and for all I know had never had the tranny serviced before (I bought it used). Maybe just a straight fluid change would have had the same result. But I sure like the idea of a good flushing out rather than just letting gravity take it's course. Any more knowledgeable opinions on this type of process?

mkovalsk

I like the systems that tap into the cooler lines to change the fluid. They are very efficient at changing a large percentage of the fluid. It will change more than draining the pan and the torque converter.

The dipstick was eliminated because there was no room to put it! Those of you with V8's see if you can find room on the side of the engine for a 1/2 inch diameter tube. You need at least an inch clearance to the exhaust manifold, and at least an inch clearance to the body to prevent it from hitting when the engine rocks. There just isn't room. The V6 doesn't have one because the V8 doesn't.

We are not the only ones without dipsticks. Most Jaguars don't, Mercedes doesn't, and BMW doesn't, to drop a few names.

Mark

stanny1

Mark can add my Volvo 96 960 RWD Wagon to the list. It has a weeny little dipstick thing on top of the tranny. It also has a BW/Aisan Japanese automatic as many of the pre-1999 Volvos used. Ah, the real RWD Volvos - a thing of the past.
With the difficulty of changing ATF, I would suggest a 100% Synthetic Fluid like Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF.

giowa

What are the recommended tranny service intervals for the MB, BMW, and Jag vehicles without dipsticks? Are any "sealed" units?

Seems like the European marques have been working aggressively for past decade or so to reduce the number of required routine intervals by extending their service intervals &/or adding various sensors that measure when various fluids and filters need to be changed. Detroit hasn't been as much inclined, but moving in that direction. Nor have their dealers; still seems like most domestic dealers' service departments still push 3K LOF interval.

2/01 issue of C&D has their long-term road test for '99 BMW 328i. As they point out, BMW "service intervals are no longer based solely on mileage mileposts". Rely on a "maintenance computer". They did their first routine service at 18,441 miles. They did their second and final service at 35,987. 5/01 issue of C&D has their long-term test of '99 Porsche 911 Carrera. First "minor" service at 15,000 miles (which includes a whopping 10 quarts of Mobil 1) and next "major" service at 30,000 miles. Both of these fine cars had only 2 scheduled services in first 40,000 miles.

Interesting, esp. when compared with Detroit. C&D's 3/01 LS8 Sport long-term review comments about the "bothersome maintenance schedule requiring stops ever 5,000 miles", noting that the "Jag interval is double that". C&D had the tranny serviced at 30,000. Must be might nice to have to go into shop only twice in first 40,000 miles for a 328i versus 8 times for LS. I much prefer not wasting time at the dealer!

ronniepooh

....are part of the European culture, in my opinion. Americans fell into the Jiffy Lube mentality of 3k miles loooong ago. Europeans, for the most part, have known that modern day oils and filters work well for many, many miles, and theyve known this for at least 2-3 decades. Modenr engines are tighter, more efficient, and dont expose the oil to as many byproducts of the combustion process. Not recommending what Im about to say for warranty reasons, but I can almost guarantee you that if the V6 Duratec or 3.9 V8 engine had oil/filter changes at 18,000 miles, it would still easily hit well over 100,000 trouble-free miles. But would the dealers make as much money?? Think about it...

ronniepooh

Mark. Thanx, I will plan to get my LS's transmission fluid changed sometime this week, as I fall under the severe service category. One last question, what consists of a "transmission tune-up", besides the pint of fluid replacement? The long-term review on Edmunds mentions the transmission tune-up, and Im suspicious of it being a dealer profit type item, with no actual service beyond fluid replacement done. Is there something Im missing?

div2

You asked: "Are any[euro autoboxes] "sealed" units?" Well, BMW has claimed that their A/T fluid is a "lifetime" fill since the mid 90s. However, they use a hyper-expensive synthetic in their autoboxes. FWIW, most long-term owners still change it out at 50-60 thousand mile intervals. I would use Mobil 1 in an LS(assuming the LS tranny uses Dexron III) and change it a similar interval.

mkovalsk

I don't know what they meant by transmission tune up. That's a new one on me.

The LS transmission requires Mercon V fluid. Last time I checked Mobil 1 did not have this rating. It has a Mercon rating, but that is not what the 5R55N transmission requires.

Mark

lateralus

One of my family members owns a 2000 LS. It's a pretty nice car, except for the ring of cheapness the interior materials have, AND, the front seats (didn't sit in the back) are so hard and firm! They don't give when you sit in them, like you would expect in a "luxury" machine. I like the seats in my Accord a lot better. Am I the only one that notices this?

giowa

Assuming C&D's comment is correct and the S-type has a 10K interval versus the LS's 5Kinterval, would be interesting to know what is driving this and why both don't have same interval. Do Jag's use synthetic fluids? Different filters?

giowa

I have about 32,000 miles on my '00 LS8 Sport. Wife, kids, and I have always found the seats to be quite comfortable, esp. on long trips. Never once a complaint. Kids didn't complain when we went from Omaha, Nebraska, to upstate NY or Savannah, Georgia, last year. The front seats are esp. good for long, long drives. I've often gone 4 hours at a time on interstate and commented how much better my back feels in my LS8 than in my former '93 Chrysler Concorde, brother's '00 Impala LS, or dad's former '97 Crown Vic. Just came back from 3,300 miles of vacation driving in my '96 Impala SS. Seats and headrests of LS8 are far, far superior.

I remember reading countless articles in automotive press over the past twenty years on seats in MB and BMW products. Initially many reviewers thought they were too hard. Then they grew to appreciate them. LS is similar.

akirby

I thought Mercon V was synthetic, or at least a synthetic blend.

ls1bmw0

Jag uses the same specs for their 3.9L as the LS. Same oil filter, albeit at a much more jacked-up price, and same oil.

The LS seats are designed for comfort, especially on long-distance driving. The Accord seats aren't. I can get out of the LS after a 10 hour drive and not feel like I have to have the Jaws of Life pry me from my seat. I've driven Accords where after two hours my back would start hurting.
There is also a big adjustable lumbar support that if inflated pretty good really firms up the seat back.

akirby

The LS seats are not plush like a Town Car. But Car and Driver had 10 staffers each drive the LS for one day - 1000 miles. 10,000 miles in 10 days. Not one of them complained about the seats. Plush seats don't necessarily support your body as well as firmer seats, so while they may feel hard at first they actually are more comfortable on long trips. If you're used to soft seats it may take a couple of weeks to get used to them but once you do you won't go back.

mkovalsk

The factory Mercon V is a synthetic blend. Not all aftermarket Mercon V fluids are synthetic blends. Some are full synthetics and some have no synthetics.

The Mercon V spec does not require any synthetic component. The spec is a series of performance specifications. Some manufacturers have produced fluids that meet the spec without synthetics.

I read the latest Edmund's long term LS review after my last post. In the review it says they had a transmission service, not a transmission tune up. I do know what is in the service. It means they checked or changed the transmission fluid. From the desciption it sounds like the dealer checkd the fluid, found it low, and added a pint.

Mark

ezaircon4jc

Me thinks we have a visitor from that other board.

lateralg

My LS seats were less plush and FAR more comfortable than my Mark VIII.

scottc8

On this board, you ask for it, you get it! Maybe the LS seats do not feel "plush" when you first sit down, but cushy doesn't go very far on a long trip. I recently spent 14 hours behind the wheel of my LS, with only the minimum pit stops, and was very comfortable the whole time. I didn't even do my usual long-distance tricks, like moving the seat and steering wheel positions around occasionally.

However, I'm in agreement with your assessment of the interior materials in the LS, especially the center console. It's my only complaint about the car, so it stands out in my mind. I don't need burled walnut, but a few bucks worth of padded vinyl would go a long way.

pat

Check out Edmunds June update to the long term road test of the 2000 LS - follow the link in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page. (Note that links to prior monthly updates are provided on the right sidebar within the article.)

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

dgh2

I have a 2000 LS with 12,000 miles on it (my wife and I love the car!!). The last few times we've driven 100+ miles on the interstate in 90+ degree weather, the transmission has developed a noticeable grinding sound when it shifts from 1st to 2nd gear. It sounds like a brake shoe pressing against a brake drum; it's not a loud grinding sound but loud enough to be very noticeable from inside the car. I called the service dept at the dealership and asked if there is a known problem with the LS'. There are no tech bulletins that describes the problem, but the service dept said one bulletin did reprogram of the shifting module. Has anyone experienced a similar noise problem? Thanks. PS: I enjoy the Town Hall dialogues. As a happy LS owner, it's great to share information and experiences with others.

scottc8

Can't recall anything like that mentioned on this board. I'm surprised the service advisor didn't ask you to bring the car in.

ronniepooh

Mark:
Here is the cut and paste quote from Edmunds Review:

"The dealership fixed the first two complaints free of charge and a transmission tune up was included in the 30K-mile service. "

tom12253

I agree with Scott, I don't recall that symptom ever being brought up on this or any other LS board. I would schedule service ASAP.

Tom

vltamp

Just had HUNTER verify 1 bad 3 over limit, all rims good. Firestones 17 inch with 1000 miles.LINCOLN dealer would not listen .PIRELLI has same size but MICHELIN has different sizes .Any thoughts about 245/55/17 or others? Thanks

dgh2

I didn't clarify my earlier message (#3379). I do have the car scheduled for a service appointment this week. But as the service manager and I discussed, it will be difficult to isolate the noise problem unless the car has been driven at interstate speeds in 90+ temps. I had hoped the problem was a known problem with a simple solution. I noticed other Town Hall messages mentioned rough shifting when the fluid level is low. My car also shifts rougher after being driven on the interstate. I'll definitely mention that to the service manager.

brucelinc

Mark, I appreciate your point about no place to put a dipstick! Prior to you setting me straight, I thought maybe it was eliminated to discourage do-it-yourselfers, like me! I just crawled under the car and took a look. Refilling would be a bit unwieldly without the proper equipment. I kind of miss the ease of checking the fluid, too. Not a problem, though.

Ironically, just last week, I rode with a co-worker from Minneapolis to Duluth and back in his '99 Accord. Nice little car......but, my Goodness.....those seats!! I don't know whether to call a lawyer or a chiropractor!

Bruce

goodyrl

The trim beetween the front and back doors has faded and discolored. I had them replaced (under warranty) and less than a month later it is doing it again. Is there a solution that anyone knows of to keep them black like they originally were ? Thanks

keyrow

I am a detailer and I use Surflex Black Leather/Vinyl Flexible Colorant for restoring the original black color. It is a water based, polymer aniline surface colorant used to restore the color to both leather and vinyl. Surflex will not crack, chip, or become brittle. It restores the natural appearance to both leather and vinyl and does not leave a "painted" look like most lacquer based products. Surflex offers the same finish, durability and wear as the original surface finish and may be applied with a lint free cloth, brush, or spray gun. It is a bit expensive at about $25-30 for 8 oz. but it WILL restore the original color. Thereafter, use a good quality vinyl protectant (I use Lexol's Vinylex on my own LS). I would be happy to answer any further questions you may have.

giowa

Not sure which is worse, lawyer or chiropractor. I'd see the chiropractor first so you have some "damages" to bring to the attorney's attention. The attorney will then likely want a second opinion with MRI/cat scan. But at least be thankful you don't have to see a proctologist after the trip!

drolds1

If I'm correct, you are talking about the black painted B-pillar molding on the outside? If so, I'm confused by keyrow's reply. Am I confused?

My car is 19 months old and there is absolutely no fading of the outside black B-pillar molding. I wax/polish it along with the rest of car. Since most people close the door by pushing on it, it's always covered in fingerprints. I use detailing spray for that. It looks perfect.

joe166

I thought they were plastic. That seems to me to be the reason they get fingerprints on them so easily. I just put the same polymer "wax" I use on the rest of the car on it and it cleans up nicely. My car is not garaged and it is almost two years old and I have not noticed any fading at all, just smudges from hands closing the door. I can't imagine using anything other than car "polish" on them and non abrasive only. Maybe a finishing spray such as spray wax or Zaino Z6 or an armor all type spray (but better).

ezaircon4jc

LS1BMW0 and I just got done putting the Borla on my V6. Initial impression (no scientifically obtained data, just seat-of-the-pants) is that the engine breathes much easier. On heavy accelleration there is a feeling of more power. The idle feels smoother. I was actually put back in my seat on a 30mph stomp in 2nd. The sound is VERY smooth. Not raspy or booming, just smooth. It has a very "sophisticated" sound. BMW's should sound so good. I can't believe you guys aren't breaking the door down to acquire one! Brian has a few left and they are going fast! As I get some mileage on the system I'll report on any MPG increase. I figure it will go down for a little while as I will probably have my foot in it!

stanny1

How do the Borla and Magnaflow compare in exterior and interior sound. I heard Mike's car with the Magnaflow prototype and the interior "intrusion" was a little too much for me. I wanted the sound and vibration to stay outside to a larger degree. So how do the two different make systems compare - outside and inside? Thanks

ezaircon4jc

The sound is almost inaudible inside. With the radio on I don't think you would hear it. There is a very pleasent resonance from 3400RPM's to about 4000. The Magnaflow was MUCH louder. The sound outside is very mellow. The best comparison that I can think of is the Magnaflow is a Winston Cup car and the Borla is an XKR, M, AMG type of sound. Hope this helps.

brucelinc

I was waiting for someone to suggest I visit the Proctologist to have my head examined!

Keyrow (or anyone), what would you suggest on the black plastic rocker panels and trim under the front and rear ends? I have been using Armorall. By the way, the owners manual recommends "silicone" for the weatherstripping.

netmogul

dgh,

My transmission also makes a pronounced grinding sound with a delayed upshift to 2nd while in D4 or D5.

But it only has this symptom after a long-distance run down the interstate (1.5+ hours), or during hard driving with frequent kick-down. The noise becomes more pronounced with extended use. After a 6-hour trip, for example, the upshift from 1st to 2nd is downright frightening and turns heads of pedestrians.

During a period when the grinding on upshift is occuring, I usually get a very noticable clunk on kickdown to 2nd. This is very different from kickdown to 2nd under normal conditions.

Anyhow, the dealer can't find any problem with the diagnostics, so I've just been driving it. Sure it grinds, slips, and clunks after awhile -- which is mostly embarassing. But if the dealer can't find anything wrong with it, I'll just run it till the tranny dies. Then the problem should be obvious. :-|

I have a 2000 V8 Sport with a build date of April, 2000. Out of curiosity, what's yours?

Let me know if you find anything new . You're the first person I've seen with a similar symptom, so I'd like to keep in touch. :-)

gkarg

I think I'll play it safe and have my Tranny Fluid changed every 30K - Especially after driving my former 1994 Continental (sold to parents to buy LS) last week - only to have the tranny DIE on me! I had the fluid changed at 50K in it and hadn't done it since and with 100K on the odometer - I was sick! I thought I took very good care of that car - guess not...

estimated price to repair $1,500 - $2,000!

SEATS:
I remember reading somewhere (here?) that our LS seats were disigned by Johnson Controls. I don't know if that means much, but everyone that sits/rides in my car raves about how comfortable the seats are!

I especially enjoyed using my heated seats, since it was 46 degrees F this morning!!

akirby

The new T-bird is using Michelin tire in the same 235/50R17 size - it looks like they are grand touring type tires (MXMM?). The factory switched to Bridgestones (Turanza??) but that may be temporary. You can also use 245/45R17 size - it says so on the door jamb. Although the shorter sidewall and wider footprint may not ride as smooth.

ls1bmw0

After 27 years with Ford Motor Company Design, Helmuth Schrader, director of Design Strategy, Technology and New Venture Development and best known for leading the design of the all-new Lincoln LS, has elected to retire.

I, for one, would like to thank Helmuth Schrader for the wonderful job he did designing, what I consider, a very beautiful car. His "finger lines" in the hood of our LS will always be a reminder to me of the talent and hands-on approach of a gifted designer.

I can only hope that Gerry McGovern keeps his mitts off of the LS and, if he doesn't, at least stays true to the concept and vision of the original. Last thing I'd want to see is my LS look like the Batmobile MK 9.

Brian

keyrow

I use Lexol Vinylex spray on all the vinyl/rubber surfaces on my own LS, but that is just my personal, unscientificly [if that is a real word] verifiable preference. Here are a couple of links that will further explain what I feebly attempted to say:

http://www.carcareonline.com/tires_rubber_vinyl.html and

http://www.carcareonline.com/vinyl_care.html

I recommend reading both and then choose a product that satisfies your own particular needs/desires. NOTE: this site also sells car care products so they emphasize what they sell but their explanations of what/why are sound. BTW they mention Black Again as one of their favorites for restoring the color to plastic parts. I used to use Black Again but they were recently bought out by another company which has drastically altered the chemical formulas they use and it is no longer the quality product it used to be. I can no longer recommend it.

jtacket3

Any recommended performance accessories for the LS?

brucelinc

I like the "perceived performance" of Lexol's leather care products so I will get a bottle of their vinylex.

Brian, wonder if the person who designed the Pontiac Aztec might be available to work on the next LS? :-)