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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,587
    I wonder if that cutting a hole in the firewall technique was widespread? And if it also applied to a lot of other engines, as well?

    I know of some shops that would do some similar surgery to access the heater core in 1984-up Thunderbirds and Cougars.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,197
    I suppose cardoc would call me a tightwad too.

    You act like 400.00 is nothing. Maybe it's a month's worth of groceries for some single mom trying to get by.

    I agree with jipster on this one and, honestly, you sound miserable in your profession. Cutting corners on critical items is one thing but making an attempt to actually "fix" something is another.

    If I ran a shop I would never machine a brake rotor or drum that is out of specs nor would I look the other way if a brake caliper was leaking.

    I certainly would clean a MAP sensor AFTER having a very direct conversation with my customer. If I suspected the customer would forget this conversation later or trash my shop on Yelp, I would politely refuse the job and send him elsewhere.

    I liked the term "Poet Mechanic". We used to call them Prima Donnas. Some were good at their jobs and some were not. They would listen to nobody.

    And, yeah, most people ARE focused on price when they take their cars into a shop. If a shop can find them a way to save a few bucks while doing a great job they are happy and YES, it is possible to do this!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    ...most people ARE focused on price when they take their cars into a shop. If a shop can find them a way to save a few bucks while doing a great job they are happy and YES, it is possible to do this!

    I can't imagine anyone other than a billionaire not caring at some point about price.

    I'm certainly no miser, and I understand the cars I drive aren't cheap to maintain (modern BMW's), but at the same time, I don't give my dealer carte blanche whenever I take my car in for service or repair.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited February 2013
    I'd like to get thecardoc3's take on the comments below, taken from the BMW 3-series forum, posted today.

    Specifically, I'd like to know what your approach in dealing with the car owner would be if he dropped the car off at your shop and gave you the explanation below... I have an opinion, but I don't want to jade the "conversation" by giving it before seeing your response. Please make any comments you feel inclined to make. Thanks...

    My fuel pump failed on my BMW. It was sitting in my driveway. It was towed to the mechanic. He replaced the fuel pump. It sat over night in his garage. It would not start. He replaced the fuel new fuel pump again. I drove it home. It would not start the next day. I towed it to the mechanic. He replaced the fuel pump a third time. It sat over night. It failed to start in the morning. At this point, after thoroughly checking the car, he cut open the original fuel pump. The impeller had swollen. He emptied the fuel tank, saving a sample of the fuel. He believed that the fuel had caused all of the fuel pumps to fail. I also live in the Hudson Valley, NY. The issue here is neither the age of the car nor the age of the fuel pumps. Even the make of the pump cannot be blamed because my mechanic used both BMW and non-BMW parts trying to repair this 2001 BMW 325xi. Something is seriously wrong and potentially dangerous if alcohol placed in fuel can essentially melt the part. It's both the fault of oil companies and the car makers. For what it is worth, in Westchester Co, a higher ethanol content is required during certain months of the year, higher than surrounding counties.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,505
    edited February 2013
    I agree, but what do we know?

    Lol. ;)

    I do miss the 2004 Mazda Mpv we traded in back in July. A hard shifting transmission between second and third led me to believe it was a valve body problem. Several at a MPV forum suggested it could be taken apart and cleaned. Others say to just replace. Similar to our m.a.f sensor discussion huh?lol. But, some reliability issues with the mpv and mileage, were enough for my wife to want a new car, which turned out to be our HyundI Veracruz. I must say that researching, then being able to diagnose and then repair (the first time) faulty parts with the mpv was very satisfying. :shades:
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    IMO, they attempted to live EXACTLY by the book,

    Do you have any idea what someone say's to a mechanic who attempts a repair and fails who didn't use the available service information?

    Watch the following posts. Man you guys are making this easy!! ;)
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    But if it makes you feel any better, I think I can diagnose and repair an E36 BMW better than most any tech that doesn't specialize in BMWs.

    Tell me something. Why do you deserve an ounce more respect here in this forum, where you have no real ability to prove yourself other than your words than you have shown mechanics/techs?
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    I understand and appreciate the difficult job a "mechanic" has... but come on, let's not get all grandiose and compare it to being a brain surgeon

    Dr Mark Richardson of UPMC Pittsburgh performed surgery on my wife last fall to try and stop her clusters of epileptic seizures. He removed a big section of the right temporal lobe because the point that they identified was pretty deep inside her brain. It actually took two surgeries, the first one was to place sensors on and in her brain which helped measure some of her seizures.

    Nothing that any of us do in our lives, nor here in this forum compares to what they are trying to do down there and your use of that exaggeration to make your point needs to be tamed IMO.

    That being said, being a technician today certainly isn't making straw bricks either. I'd love to have any of you visit my shop and get to turn you loose to try and do my job. I'll never forget the guy who works on aircraft avionics for US Airways when he watched me diagnose and solve the no-start on his Caravan. The cause was a grounded data line shutting down communication and that resulted in the PCM not being able to receive SKIM data. It took me less than an hour, he was out the door for the basic diagnostic fee that we charge. That's the reality of what we do, and it in no way matches your stereotypes. Brain surgery, certainly not. But are YOU trained and experienced enough to do it, let alone in under an hour? Same answer...JMHO

    Oh, and following "the book" in this case would not get you to the answer that fast, because the engineers have had to admit they cannot write a trouble tree that can effectively lead to the answer. We have to have techs with the right tools and training and then offer them a rewarding career to get them to stay.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    Well, I will be the first to admit that the job is much tougher than it looks- especially for shops that strive to provide quality service for all makes.

    Maybe you do know a "little more" about being a mechanic then the average poster.

    Now having said that, there are folks like you and me that have accumulated decades of experience with a particular make or model of car. In my case, I have been working on BMWs since 1983- starting with an E3 Bavaria 3.0,

    Well that's about a cup of water in the ocean isn't it?

    and later moving up the food chain to serve as the East Coast Tech Advisor for the ///M Register back in the '90s and now dealing with E36 and E9x 3 Series cars.

    Care to elaborate on exactly what that is supposed to mean?

    I asked the owners where the leak was located and both said that it was coming from the left front corner of the oil pan. I told them both to take their cars to another shop, because BMW oil pan gaskets rarely fail- but that the oil filter housing gaskets can be problematic as the cars age. Both cars were taken to a good indie BMW tech, and the leaks were found to be originating at the oil filter housing gasket.
    Of course, I'm relatively certain that my diagnosis will be characterized as merely a lucky guess...


    You were doing so nice, but you had to blow it didn't you?

    TSB's have their places. Those "oil leaks" could easily have been exactly what you thought. So what happens when that 21st car comes in, and the tech seals up the oil filler adapter, (because it worked 20 times) only this time the pan really is leaking? The other posts talked about "poet mechanic" and how he could only go by the book. Exactly why is using this pattern failure, without actually seeing the car and taking the necessary steps to prove what the problem was any different than what they wanted to condemn?

    We could spend some time discussing what the techs were being paid to locate leaks in those shops. But it essentially comes down to training. Don't pay the tech to take the time to really investigate the problem and you train them to not spend any time. No one should be surprised that the eventual outcome of not paying the techs to diagnose is that they will make more mistakes. But the alternative is that the shop has to charge the customer, to pay the tech for the time. The problem is you don't respect that either and would rather go to someone that wouldn't charge to look for a leak. As smart as you are, your're still not smart enough to break this failure string. But you can always blame the techs, everyone can always resort to blaiming the techs.

    Then you wonder, why can't you find any great techs!!!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Do you have any idea what someone say's to a mechanic who attempts a repair and fails who didn't use the available service information?

    What do they say to the same mechanic when he uses ONLY the available service information, ignores the physical evidence, and doesn't clearly examine the problem to determine EXACTLY what the problem is in the first place?

    Oh, and following "the book" in this case would not get you to the answer that fast, because the engineers have had to admit they cannot write a trouble tree that can effectively lead to the answer. We have to have techs with the right tools and training and then offer them a rewarding career to get them to stay.

    Two conflicting statements, but you did verify my comment's validity in your second comment

    One has to open his eyes, so to speak, when attempting to resolve an issue, mechanical or otherwise. There are always other factors "at play", and the question is always..."Are those factors relevant to the current situation?"
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    edited February 2013
    Two conflicting statements,

    That's essentially my point, If you take the time to look at everyone's posts you will see all of the conflicting statements over and over again.

    The mechanic is wrong if he follows the book, he's wrong if he doesn't.
    The mechanic is wrong if he doesn't get a bolt tight enough, he's wrong if he over-tightens it, he's even wrong if he grabs a torque wrench and measures how tight the oil drain plug is (Shifty did that one a few months back)

    The mechanic is only right when he does things for free, except for the fact that he can't earn a living and stay in business that way.

    but you did verify my comment's validity in your second comment

    Did I really or is that just another contradiction?
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    I'm certainly no miser, and I understand the cars I drive aren't cheap to maintain (modern BMW's), but at the same time, I don't give my dealer carte blanche whenever I take my car in for service or repair.

    Let's compare the dynamics of what you just wrote to the picture of a single mom in a 2000 Neon that needs front brakes, rotors, and calipers.
    Your monthly payment is more than her repair job.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,034
    Doc wrote: "so then why attack taking a legitimate approach to be the best one can be at this trade?

    ME: I'm not paying you to be the best in your trade--your primary mission, in my point of view, is to fix my car correctly and for a fair price, and as efficiently as possible. You don't have to be the best--you only have to be good enough to fix my car, keeping costs as reasonable as you can.

    It doesn't matter to me if you can repair a Saturn V rocket or do a cam chain on a Lamborghini--I only care that you can fix a Mini Cooper :P

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    I'd like to get thecardoc3's take on the comments below, taken from the BMW 3-series forum, posted today.

    I'll play but the tech in me right now is saying this scenario is pretty far fetched, but even so had this occurred in my shop it would have been quite a nightmare. I can't imagine recovering even a fraction of the cost of the materials, let alone the labor or the tows. Fortunately I own my own tow truck, so at least I wouldn't have been bleeding that cash out to someone else too.

    Although I did have a customer who had someone sabotaging his cars, who had my loaner car and it got pop dumped into the fuel tank and quit on him. I took that one on the chin just like I'm betting this guys shop did.

    Specifically, I'd like to know what your approach in dealing with the car owner would be if he dropped the car off at your shop and gave you the explanation below... I have an opinion, but I don't want to jade the "conversation" by giving it before seeing your response. Please make any comments you feel inclined to make. Thanks

    Based on the description I'd first verify that the car not starting was again being caused by a loss of fuel pressure. Then I'd be measuring how much current the pump was drawing. A locked up pump will typically draw about 2.5 to 3 times as much current as a pump does when its running normally. Plus with using the low amps probe and the oscilloscope to make that measurement I would see if the armature was turning or not prior to tearing anything apart. This lets me know without disturbing anything if the pump not running is a matter of a bad connection or wiring harness problem that is dropping the voltage available to the pump or not.

    Now lets look at the speculation posted.

    At this point, after thoroughly checking the car, he cut open the original fuel pump. The impeller had swollen. He emptied the fuel tank, saving a sample of the fuel. He believed that the fuel had caused all of the fuel pumps to fail.

    The proof would be essentially that re-fueling the car and letting it sit overnight again didn't result in yet another weird failure.

    BTW, I would also have measured the pump current and stored a current waveform for my new pump right when it was put in, and then re-compared that to what I could capture the next morning.

    I also live in the Hudson Valley, NY. The issue here is neither the age of the car nor the age of the fuel pumps. Even the make of the pump cannot be blamed because my mechanic used both BMW and non-BMW parts trying to repair this 2001 BMW 325xi


    Maybe important information, and maybe totally irrelevant. But it doesn't hurt to know. However when actually doing the diagnostics, the tech needs to completely forget any of that and test for what the car is doing right now. Otherwise they risk winding up in a state that I call "Tainted Intuition". Anyone trying to figure this out needs to ignore that for the moment as well.

    Something is seriously wrong and potentially dangerous if alcohol placed in fuel can essentially melt the part

    Totally bogus unless you got lines of broken Beemers on the streets over there with the fuel pumps licked up. I'm pretty sure there would be other models that use identical pump designs as well. Has the entire county come to a sudden standstill?

    It's both the fault of oil companies and the car makers. For what it is worth, in Westchester Co, a higher ethanol content is required during certain months of the year, higher than surrounding counties.

    Westchester county. I've taught classes in Armonk. Beautiful area, but they don't have any greater alcohol contect by law than anyone else. RVP (reed vapor pressure) has to be changed seasonally. You need fuel that so that the fuel evaporates easier in cold weather than it does in warmer weather. This can be done in a number of ways, but that shouldn't be totally confused with the oxygenates that are added to today's fuels as well which is where the alcohols come into play. (They formally used MTBE but hopefully everyone understands what was wrong with them)

    Guessing, and that includes having to accept the story as presented, the fuel may have caused the failure, but it seems unlikely that it was the alcohol. Heck the alcohol content could even be tested easily by using a graduated cylinder and taking about 90ml of fuel and adding 10ml of water to it and then shake it up. The alcohol will settle out with the water and then the actual percentage of alcohol in the sample could be proven. I'm going to suspect that there is another compound at play here, and it would have to be something that is very unfriendly to his "plastic impeller".

    BTW, a plastic impeller in his fuel pump? I don't make a habit of tearing pumps apart but I cannot think of any that use plastic for the pump mechanism. Besides alcohols and plastics usually play nice. :shades:

    I think there is more to the story.....
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    I only care that you can fix a Mini Cooper

    And so I bought a specific scan tool and associated software to add that manufacturer to my list of supported cars. It cost me $226 a month for the next three years. Now if I use it at the most once a month, what should I be charging you?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,034
    That's your problem, however. I didn't ask you to buy the scan tool or to go into the Mini Repair business (not a bad idea, though, as you would have an endless supply of broken cars :P ).

    If you hang a Mini repair sign on your window, I would expect a good repair at a fair price. It's not my obligation to underwrite your infrastructure investment. You, as a business man, have to make these decisions----"hmm.....is there enough MINI business around for me to justify investing in special tools? Also, what's the Mini repair competition in my area? Also, do I even like working on these cars?"

    Case in point -- the shop I go to fixes MINIs as well as a few other makes---they are very good, but quite expensive....if I drive over to Oakland, another 15 minutes or so, I can use a MINI specialist who is just as good but considerably cheaper.

    Does this mean that the expensive shop is better than the cheaper one? Not at all! It may be that the cheaper shop runs more efficiently, has a lower overhead, or....well, who knows why?

    do I care why? Nope---as long as my car keeps running well.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    Does this mean that the expensive shop is better than the cheaper one? Not at all! It may be that the cheaper shop runs more efficiently, has a lower overhead, or....well, who knows why?

    Imagine simply dropping them in my neighborhood. They would both be seen as outrageously priced.

    If you hang a Mini repair sign on your window, I would expect a good repair at a fair price. It's not my obligation to underwrite your infrastructure investment.

    Nor anyone elses, but many make it their place to try and undermine our investments, with nothing more than the contradictions like are in this forum.

    You, as a business man, have to make these decisions----"hmm.....is there enough MINI business around for me to justify investing in special tools?

    Now multiply that thought for all of the different manufacturers. Some will be reasonable, others totally unreasonable to tool up for. (Mini actually belongs to the second group)

    Also, what's the Mini repair competition in my area? Also, do I even like working on these cars?"

    We have the chain stores that sell tires and do alignments, and quick lubes that are putting who knows what in the cars. That leaves only the high tech stuff un-touched. Kinda hard to justify unless I do it for the person and not for the money. But wait, someone will still accost me for trying because after all you might be a single mother. Some picture isn't it.....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,034
    Well nobody said running an auto repair shop was easy.

    I would say that ultimately, the greatest challenge for the shop owner might be one of maintaining a balanced view of the customer and not being soured by the small percentage of them who are chiselers, law-suit happy, ungrateful, cheap and all the rest.

    Auto repair is by nature definitely not a "touchy feely" business, like dentistry or chiropractic or a hair salon. No one really expects you to be a caring sensitive person and I suspect they don't plan to reciprocate that way either.

    One of my friends who runs a shop greatly reduced his own stress levels by hiring a very personable "front man" to run the office, take appointments, give people their bills and explain the charges (or give them estimates beforehand).

    Not only does this reduce the owner's stress, it has given him valuable extra hours to work on the cars.

    The "front man" is pretty unflappable. He's a guard dog, a diplomat, an accountant and a service provider.

    Owner loves it, customers love it, it's a win-win.

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited February 2013
    Thanks for your analysis. I agree, there's more to the story...and if alcohol is the culprit (or complicit), it makes one wonder if the guy was running (attempting to run) E-85 instead of the approved fuel for the car.

    Other than throwing fuel pumps at the problem, I was intrigued that the tech only opened the original fuel pump to come to his determination.

    If it did indeed happen as described... That's a pretty good example of looking at a problem and coming to a determination without examining all the available evidence. Lots of things can cause a fuel pump failure, after all... Another example of throwing parts at a problem...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,034
    If it matters, I thought the diagnosis was wrong after the first few sentences because, as Doc so aptly put it, if the fuel was the issue with BMWs, they'd be scattered all over the highway.

    I'm always amazed how some people will accept the least likely cause of a problem long before they've considered the most likely one.

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Well, I will be the first to admit that the job is much tougher than it looks- especially for shops that strive to provide quality service for all makes.

    I question whether it makes economic sense to attempt to provide service for all makes, especially in smaller shops. It might prove out financially for a large, urban location to do so, but I really don't think one can be financially successful in a 2-3 man shop trying to service every make and model out there.

    Since physicians were brought up earlier, which would you rather have perform open heart surgery on you... A GP or a Cardiologist?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    If it matters, I thought the diagnosis was wrong after the first few sentences because, as Doc so aptly put it, if the fuel was the issue with BMWs, they'd be scattered all over the highway

    Me, too. That's why I didn't state my opinion at the beginning, because I didn't want to color any possible response one way or the other.

    IMO, the tech needs to re-evaluate the logic he's using...
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    And would you rather the docs try some meds for your seizures first instead of surgery? The gas cap before the sensor replacement if you will.

    The problem with diagnostic trees is that the yes/no option frequently only gives the most common cause for that particular step in the tree. And that can be wrong.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Well, I'd certainly appreciate it if a few tests were run on me before the doctor started chasing me around the ER with a scalpel in his hand....
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    edited February 2013
    it makes one wonder if the guy was running (attempting to run) E-85 instead of the approved fuel for the car.

    He would have had big problems right away. It takes about 30% more fuel by volume to run E-85 than it does E-10. (What they have in weschecter).

    His fuel trims can't make that much of an adjustment, it would have coded and been forced to openloop and he would have "broke down" on the road, not after sitting overnight.

    Other than throwing fuel pumps at the problem, I was intrigued that the tech only opened the original fuel pump to come to his determination.

    Grain of salt needed here. The poster is saying the alcohol in the fuel is doing it. The poster is saying the event actually occurred. I need proof.

    If it did indeed happen as described... That's a pretty good example of looking at a problem and coming to a determination without examining all the available evidence.

    If it did happen, the shop/technician is out a small fortune when you consider the parts that are not warranty failures, the labor lost and the towing fees. The tech simply needs this running right and get moving back onto work that will produce revenues. No-one should expect him to invest even as much time as it took me to write this response beyond what he did already. At this point "Something about the Fuel" did it. He took a sample, he's done. Heck if the owner turns this over to his insuranace company the tech will be dissed for not knowing the fuel was the cause of the first pump failing by the adjuster. (As if he "the adjuster" would have known, yea right...)

    Another example of throwing parts at a problem...

    Ahhh,, See what I mean?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    He would have had big problems right away. It takes about 30% more fuel by volume to run E-85 than it does E-10. (What they have in weschecter).

    His fuel trims can't make that much of an adjustment, it would have coded and been forced to openloop and he would have "broke down" on the road, not after sitting overnight.


    That's assuming a completely full tank of E-85.

    What happens when its a partial tank of E-85, say 2, 3 or 5 gallons? Lots of folks "top-off" tanks and don't wait for the needle to hit "E" before getting fuel.

    I've actually seen this exact thing in an E-90 series BMW occur. The owner's wife was trying to do her husband a favor by filling his tank after using his car on a short trip, but topped off the tank with E-85, because it was the cheapest fuel at the pump that day. The car didn't immediately die. She made it home just fine. Didn't take too long for the symptoms to show up, though...
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,587
    Tell me something. Why do you deserve an ounce more respect here in this forum, where you have no real ability to prove yourself other than your words than you have shown mechanics/techs?

    Look, I have all the respect in the world for competent mechanics/techs. I shouldn't have to remind you that I have praised my BMW and Mazda dealers, as well as the two indie shops I use.

    As for my own "ounce of respect" why not pop into the "Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous" or the "Stories from the Sales Frontlines" and ask if there is anyone on thosee board that knows BMWs?

    Oh wait, that wouldn't be a valid sample- those people are almost certainly ignorant hacks as well...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,587
    edited February 2013
    Well that's about a cup of water in the ocean isn't it?

    Arrogant and condescending much? I know BMWs because I've owned 11 since 1983, and I only learn about cars I own-or in some cases, might own. Which eliminates @99% of domestic vehicles and at least 90% of the imports. Why learn about an anodyne transportation module when I'm never going to have one in my garage?

    Care to elaborate on exactly what that is supposed to mean?

    The ///M Register was an informal association of E24, E28, and E34 M car owners, vendors, and repair shops. The first cars were all "gray market" imports, but even the US spec cars weren't well served by many shops(I know of one dealer who didn't have the BMW tool needed for adjusting the valves- but still gladly charged for the service). I volunteered to field technical questions from Register members east of the Mississippi. We disbanded in the late '90s as internet boards and forums became a more efficient way to exchange information.

    The problem is you don't respect that either and would rather go to someone that wouldn't charge to look for a leak. As smart as you are, your're still not smart enough to break this failure string. But you can always blame the techs, everyone can always resort to blaiming the techs.

    Just exactly where did I say that the tech should automatically assume that the filter housing was the culprit? In both cases the techs didn't properly identify the source of the leak. Period. Thus, my complaint was that each diagnosis was 100% wrong. 2 for 2. But then, those techs were "professionals" so I should give them a free pass, correct?

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 11,587
    And so I bought a specific scan tool and associated software to add that manufacturer to my list of supported cars. It cost me $226 a month for the next three years. Now if I use it at the most once a month, what should I be charging you?

    Which is why the indie tech I use for my BMWs specializes in BMWs. And my TJ only sees a shop that specializes in D2.5 vehicles...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport / 2014 M235i / 1999 Wrangler / 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 Cooper Clubman Son's: 2009 328i

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 4,751
    edited February 2013
    Well that's about a cup of water in the ocean isn't it?

    Arrogant and condescending much?


    Only when someone needs it. ;)

    Just exactly where did I say that the tech should automatically assume that the filter housing was the culprit

    Well you did, didn't you?

    In both cases the techs didn't properly identify the source of the leak. Period. Thus, my complaint was that each diagnosis was 100% wrong. 2 for 2

    In that tiny view of the much bigger picture, maybe that's true. But the reality is closer to that it was really only two out of thousands of events. That leaves the readers to have to fill in the rest of the picture, taken at what you wrote the techs must always be wrong.

    But then, those techs were "professionals" so I should give them a free pass, correct?

    It isn't enough information to do anything with. Few if any of the readers here have ever looked at one of these engines and have no idea how obscured the area in question is. Given the chance, without prior knowledge of the pattern failure I doubt that you would have gotten this same test right the first time either. The difference is, I wouldn't trash you for that like you have done to them here. Said another way, if you had been either one of those techs and it was the first time you saw one of these leaks you would have made the same misdiagnosis, especially if you were rushed and not allowed to take enough time to examine the situation correctly.
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