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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    I love my snowboard helmet, but mostly for the warmth. I have no illusions that it'd help much if I crash bodily into a tree. And I don't wear my bike helmet so much anymore. One of the Scandinavian countries that's already big on bikes is resistant to touting or requiring their usage, figuring that it's healthier overall to encourage people to bike and accept a few head injuries along the way. Lots of people don't want the hassle or helmet hair, at least in the urban areas.

    But I digress...it if wasn't 36°/2°, I'd go out to the garage and do the van's annual throttle body cleaning.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Sleet at 60-70 mph certainly will make one wish for a helmet and windscreen...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The funniest argument against helmet laws is the one "I can hear better without one", from the guy with earth-shattering straight pipes on his Harley. :P
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I have never and would never ride in sleet. How do you think I have made it this long? And I refuse to ride in the winter too even though I know guys who have bragged about it :( even if I did live in the city..My arthritis is bad enough without giving it even more reason to pester me. And of course the hazard of slippery roads. Being on two wheels in the snow and ice, without studs like the ice racers, is about as irresponsible as it can get on 2 wheels, IMO.

    I did get caught in hail on the bike though with a new GF on the back...boy does THAT ever slow ya down..."we're gonna be late, love".. lol
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    this discussion reminds me.

    I wonder if a career as a motorcycle mechanic would be any more appealing?

    Also, I wonder if there is any cross-pollination going on between bike mechanics and car mechanics?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I wear ear plugs if I am going to be going more than 50 mph. Even 40 mph on the ST...gosh it's noisy. I wish I had clued in tho years ago...since about the early 90's when more bikes started coming with factory fairings is when db levels skyrocketed under the helmet. The plugs take some getting used to at first, but once you do, you really fall into a world of TOTAL concentration. And your loud pipe Harley example is a good one. I can hear all plugged, better than the guy on the Harley with a beenie on.

    But over the years between all the loud trucks and wind noise on bikes, chainsaws (I wear ear plugs when I saw now too) I have experienced a fair bit of hearing loss and in fact live every day with ringing in my ears. I guess it is a form of tinitis.

    There is a very old German saying that my Aunt had on a plaque in her cottage. When I cleaned her house out, I kept that little plaque. It said:

    "Ve git too soon oldt und too late Schmart"
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited May 2013
    Well...I have more than one friend that insists on doing all their own bike repairs, but hire out if the family cage needs wrenching..so..

    But even with bikes, they are getting VERY technical. Dealer computer reliant. Even my ST has ABS, but at least I can bleed the linked and ABS system without hooking it to a Honda dealers computer for the final little bit of air to be bled. This can't be said of one of the BMW models about 10 years or so ago...so it started back then with some brands. Fast forward to today and now we have traction control (altho technically Honda's old ST1100 was the first to offer TC and that was back in ...92 or so??) and various engine power level settings all as close as the left hand on the grip, keyless ignitions etc etc. So they are getting pretty technical and require a fair amount of software and firmware upgrading etc just like a car in some respects. Fortunately though there are still some bikes actually still use carbs and a choke! But they become rarer every year. All use electronic ignition though..so phew...since it has been proven very dependable.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    These days I wear hearing protection for just about anything, including using my relatively quiet electric mower. Just lost an ear plug flying a couple of weeks ago, but I had spares in my carry-on. Makes the jets lots more comfortable (kills the engine noise and crying babies. :) ).

    Oh, check out the free mp3 masking downloads (pink noise, etc.). I prefer just using the radio but they may help your ringing, esp. if one corresponds to "your" frequency. (link)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Back in the old "hippie" days I saw the aftermath of a bearded mechanic who somehow got his beard in the generator pully of a VW beetle.

    It wasn't a pretty sight. Before the majority of his beard was torn out by the roots, his chin took a terrible beating from the generator pully.

    As far as rings, I watched my boss get his wedding band between a starter terminal and a ground. You never saw someone remove a ring so quickly!

    Luckilly he reacted quickly and didn't get burned too badly.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,454
    If loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride that thing could do :shades:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In all my years in the tool business I can't remember any guys who went from cars to motorcycles although I'm sure it happened.

    The body guys seemed to be the unhappiest of all.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,454
    There seems to be enough bike shops in my area anyway, so there must be appeal enough to make it a career, and demand enough to make it worthwhile. Most of them do tend to be attached to dealers though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    The only motorcycle mechanic I knew (back in the 70s!) quit to import/export trinkets from India. She lasted about 3 or 4 years of wrenching on bikes. And talk about long hair. She also had the first Subaru I ever saw - one of the old narrow wagons.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, I agree. Lots of turban wearing mechanics in India and other places that must have figured it out.

    I once met a BLIND mechanic in a Chevrolet Dealership!! Theother guys would pull cars in and out for him but they said he knew his stuff.

    I watched him teardown a Quadrajet one time and I was AMAZED at how he could do this!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,454
    I've never seen a mechanic in a turban, myself - and for better or worse, my area is pretty diverse too. I think Sikhs do have smaller headgear for special purposes , and a quick google of "India mechanic" shows plenty of pics of workers without the accessories, so maybe the culture allows for exceptions. I don't think it is a real issue (don't know if you were just kidding ;) ) - although it is something where language skills would be critical, for dealing with the customer.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Apparently some younger Sikhs are cutting their hair and foregoing headgear, causing the usual consternation among their elders. Kids these days. :P

    I bet the blind mechanic could diagnose all kinds of stuff just by listening to the car, assuming it was running at all.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    edited May 2013
    back to the idea of where our next talent pool is, in the auto repair field

    Well, earlier I wrote market forces would determine where and when the next "talent pool" would arrive.

    In today's Courier-Journal newspaper there is a spot on article concerning auto repair training to meet future demands. Looks like the next talent pool in our area will be coming out of an expanding Jefferson Community and Technical College here in Louisville. :shades:

    Highlights: "With help from the Greater Louisville Automobile Dealers Association, JCTC is expanding its auto technician offering, with the goal of producing more highly skilled workers." Hopes to have 6 times more space for auto programs in a new $47 million center for auto technology.

    "It sems like the technician base here in town is aging, and the slack is not being picked up by the younger generations." says chairman of GLADA.
    With $100,00 in seed money fro LADA, JCTC plans to launch program in the fall that will pair students with dealerships.

    On pay: Median pay for automotive techs was $35,790 a year. Median hourly pay $15.84. Techs with 15 years experience cn make $80k ayear.

    Also noted: A part time tech at Lexus of Louisville makes $9 doing oil changes and front end alignments (guess thats about what the guys at Jiffy Boob make Shifty :P ) By going thru the 2 year program at JCTC he expects to earn $17 an hour an about $35,360 a year. Saying he could make up to $50k depending on their volume of work.

    So, no need to worry folks. The laws of supply and demand will apply to the auto service industry as it does to any other economic factor.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,766
    My nephew is going to go to a school in PA with a 2 years program in Applied Mechanics, specializing in diesel.
    He wants an automotive mechanical career with a college experience and will get an associates degree. Kind of an interesting.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Thanks for posting that link, Steve. Very interesting.

    It can be very debilitating and exhausting..

    My balance is sometimes affected because with wax buildup (which I try to keep on top of...I've learned how to do it without having to go to the doc) due to the ear plugs. In order for them to actually seal into quiet low db, I have to get them way in there.. on my right ear especially, due to an unusual ear canal shape. I found this out when I once paid 100 bucks for silicone molded custom plugs (which didn't work for me). So I think in making sure I get them in far enough, I end up inadvertently pushing wax in, which blocks off hearing in that right ear..so sometimes i'm walking around with only one ear hearing...and if anyone has had a bad cold with congestion, you know how much that sucks..
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited May 2013
    Cool! Smart kid. I wish him all the success as America, little by little, is gonna embrace more diesels. Of course we need to give government heat if they continue to keep diesel prices higher than RUG. There's a lot of agendas going on politically, that the little guy, while may be aware they are screwing with us, can't do a whole lot about as lone voices.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    I usually can tune mine out pretty good. Don't have wax or much "positional" vertigo, but I don't do boats well. Most anything else, including small planes, are okay. (I'd try to blame it on the motion and the diesel fumes on boats but sail boats are the worst. :D ).

    Never much abused my hearing when I was younger either. Bodies are weird.

    Still not sure I believe the news stories.

    Hot jobs: Careers on the upswing for auto mechanics (democratandchronicle.com - be careful with the volume on the idiotic video automatically playing).
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Here's how I usually price a car--at least a more modern one:

    I go to Autotrader, use the "advanced search",


    I'm sure you meant to include Edmunds pricing service...right shifty? ;)

    I usually look at Edmunds, cars.com,Kelly blue book, whatever else is floating around. Look at prices enough that I can usually guess correctly, within $500, the price of most mainstream cars. :shades:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited May 2013
    Actually you gave me a good idea. I'll research my 2003 Mini Cooper S on autotrader, then price it on Edmunds, and compare both methods.

    Okay---on Autotrader, plugging in mileage, equipment, etc. I got 13 hits for an average asking price of $8245

    On Edmunds True Market Value, I got a private party price of $7509.

    So, if we presume that most asking prices are 5-10% negotiable, then both sources jibe pretty well.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,435
    made me recall an episode of chasing classic cars from last season, where Wayne visited a college with a program in automotive repair (actually I think restoration) where it is an actual college degree (with liberal arts components) but they are learning car restoration.

    http://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    Nothing amazing about it. We had to be able to tear apart our M-16,A1s in total darkness, install the firing pin and reassemble it.

    Basically we had to remove the firing pin, and assemble the weapon. The with the lights out, tear it down and put it back in. With a plan, there wasn't much to it. A Q-jet can be torn down by a seasoned tech in about ten minutes to a given level. Complete tear down, which meant removing the throttle shafts took close to an hour. Doing that without sight while not impossible would result in a significant increase in the time. The problem however isn't tearing it down and even putting the main body back together, that's easy.

    It's performing the adjustments that would be an issue. How would someone without sight, set the float level? It's too light to feel with the carb bowl inverted.

    How would they read the choke angle gage which uses a bubble level?

    How would they read the four gas analyzer when it came to setting the mixtures and idle speeds?

    How would they learn any of this unless they were able to drive and feel the engines normal, versus abnormal operation in order to identify the source of a failure?

    There is so much more to being a mechanic than just taking something apart and putting it back together again. You have to know why it needs attended to in order to be certain that you solve the problem that the car came in for while its being serviced.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    I bet the blind mechanic could diagnose all kinds of stuff just by listening to the car, assuming it was running at all.

    You do realize you are referring to a career where productivity is the only thing that matters don't you? ( that is until the moment quality suffers). We have talented able-bodied people who can't make it in this trade. The loss of the sense of sight would put someone at a significant disadvantage in this trade that is known to eat its young. If someone entered the trade, mastered it, and then lost his/her sight they might be able to work in a limited capacity, but would you as a customer want to pay the shop by how long it takes them to do a job, or would you insist that the job be quoted by the flat rate manual?

    You wouldn't want a blind surgeon would you?
    The suggestion that "It's so easy that a blind person can do it" when it comes to being a mechanic really has about as much validity as suggesting that they could also be a wide receiver in the NFL. You could help them into a situation where they could catch a football, but there is no way for them to really perform all of the required tasks for either career.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    On pay: Median pay for automotive techs was $35,790 a year. Median hourly pay $15.84. Techs with 15 years experience can make $80k a year.

    Mathematically techs can make that kind of money, however in reality only a select few get anywhere near that, and you're not going to find them where the article suggests. The techs who can generate that kind of income will be predominately self employed' and its through their business skills that they generate that kind of money, not wrenching for someone else.

    The techs who do diagnostics at the dealership level, get .3 hours (18 minutes) to get the repair order, locate the car, perform the diagnostics, and send the repair information to the service advisor and they still have to access the parts department when required. To make up for the time not paid for doing all of that, they are expected to sell services. These are the very same kinds of services that Mr Reed took part of with NBC that they did the sting on. It's ironic to see information in this forum trying to paint an enticing picture for someone to become a tech, when everything else about it wants to put techs down.

    So, no need to worry folks. The laws of supply and demand will apply to the auto service industry as it does to any other economic factor.

    In the end it has to, but stories like the one out of Bayfield Texas where one shop owner sent everyone home early this week and told them he was closing the business are still the norm. One of the other shop owners in town let us know about it, seems every shop there is slow, painfully slow, as the cars simply keep getting better and need less service and repair. There was one thing different about that story out of Texas, after everyone left the shop owner ended it all with a 44cal.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    "Nothing amazing about it?"

    I suppose I should have said that this blind mechanic could reassemble a Q-Jet too. Now, he may have had a sighted person do some of the critical functions but he did the bulk of the work.

    The local newspaper did a story about him at the time.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When it comes to selling services, I have no problem with a shop pointing out work on my car that needs to be done.

    I don't like the Treasure Hunt approach where they try to sell me work that is unnecessary but if something is wrong or something is beginning to fail, I certainly want to be told.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You wouldn't want a blind surgeon would you?

    Didn't see the M*A*S*H episode where Hawkeye got blinded and wound up helping BJ in the OR find a nick after he got a whiff of bowel?

    People manage to do amazing stuff with all sorts of ability levels.

    Good to hear that cars are running so well that the need for mechanics is declining. Not music to your ears perhaps but it is to mine.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    Didn't see the M*A*S*H episode where Hawkeye got blinded and wound up helping BJ in the OR find a nick after he got a whiff of bowel?

    They can do miracles in movies and on television. Your point is?

    People manage to do amazing stuff with all sorts of ability levels.

    The question stands. Would you pay the time that it takes a blind technician to do the job, or would you expect the shop to charge by the flat rate book?

    Good to hear that cars are running so well that the need for mechanics is declining. Not music to your ears perhaps but it is to mine.

    Really? Then you don't understand the contradiction that is trying to play out. It takes decades to learn to be a good technician, but the work isn't there to have the kids get in and stay long enough to do so and hasn't been for a long time.

    I found the article mentioned above and added a comment to it. I also put a link onto the iATN so that they get input from some of the best in the trade.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    So, hire a blind tech who knows about cars or take my ride in to Dickie's Quickie Tune? Such tough choices. :P

    Decades to become a good tech, yet I keep finding myself fixing stuff on my cars after a 2 minute net search. See the disconnect?

    I'm still hoping for the car with the hood welded shut, thank you very much.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,435
    Buy a Boxster. I think they effectively did that, with the engine buried and only a little access hatch to get to where you can check/add some fluids.

    besides, on most cars, with how crammed full and complicated the engine bay is, and with covers over the whole thing, it might as well be welded shut for as much good as the average person can do.

    I actually had an interesting conversation with the salesman yesterday at the caddy dealer, who was talking about how the car can now report (to your smartphone) a lot of status and diagnostics, and they can download updates through the CUE telematics system. Big brother is watching!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    Decades to become a good tech, yet I keep finding myself fixing stuff on my cars after a 2 minute net search. See the disconnect?

    Yep, clear as day, you don't know that you don't know what you are talking about. One day in a shop and you'd reveal yourself to be one of RB's idiots.

    Plus you didn't answer the question so I'll rephrase it one more time.

    Would you pay a shop the time it takes for the blind technician to do a given job, or would you insist on paying the flat rate book time that is supposed to be the guideline used to be the measure a technicians proficiency.

    As a consumer you want to eat the techs lunch and keep it too, but you can't answer the question without exposing yourself.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2013
    A Boxster would be fun and the maintenance intervals are okay at 10k, even if the oil is pricey. I always did like chick cars - Miatas, Karman Ghias, PT Cruisers, minivans, Prii.

    And civil conversation. Fortunately around here it's easy to ignore the name-calling and move on to the next thread without taking the bait.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, blind people built my Mini Cooper and I can't complain too much. Just carry some super glue with you wherever you go.

    TECH SALARIES: The techs at my friend's Porsche shop make about $36 an hour + bennies. But as Doc says, these are very experienced people with 15-20 years under their belts, and big mistakes on $100K cars is not appreciated.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    Or answering the legitimate question.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Name calling especially to a Host isn't a good thing.

    It's a good way to get a forum shut down.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    TECH SALARIES: The techs at my friend's Porsche shop make about $36 an hour + bennies. But as Doc says, these are very experienced people with 15-20 years under their belts, and big mistakes on $100K cars is not appreciated.

    Let's talk these salaries. Is this what they make as an hourly wage? Is it their flat rate which gets multiplied by their labor hours? Or is it what they can make if they are productive enough?

    The first question means they make thirty-six dollars per hour for an eight hour day.

    The second one means they get paid thirty-six dollars for each flat rate hour, which could have them making four hours on a given day, or twelve hours (or more) for their eight hour day.

    The last one means that they have to produce very effectively, such as their real labor rate is eighteen dollars an hour but if they routinely turn two hours work in one hour then they "make" thirty-six.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    Maybe it should be shut down. He can refuse to answer a direct question and make the suggestion that the job is so simple that anyone can do it regardless of their physical limitations and at the same time ignore the fact that there would be an associated cost to even try and accomidate a disabled person in the trade that he wouldn't be open to paying.

    Then again, nothing says more about a mechanics life then exposing such contradictions.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nah, Isell, I have thick skin. But if I wanted to spend all my days in nit-picking arguments, I'd go to law school. :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, I see that my post was confusing. The $36/hr is what their monthly salary works out to. Some days they work 8 hours, other days they might have to stay on a bit longer, to pitch in on something, or volunteer to deliver a car or wait for a customer or cover for the boss's absence---that sort of thing.

    This is a good wage, but honestly, these guys are about at the top of their game...there's not much "up" after this point.

    My friend has lost a few techs to "starting my own business", which is understandable, since a "career" working as an auto tech dead ends, IMO, after 10 years or so.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    36 x 40 x 52 = $74880. 74880/12 = 6240.

    For a tech that is excellent money, they are in the top .5% of the trade.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited May 2013
    You're right about auto techs having short careers.

    You won't see many guys over fifty turning wrenches, especially if they work heavy line.

    I guy I know just retired last year after a long career as a Ford Dealership Tech. He worked until he was 66. Not many can do this even if they are physically up to the task. This guy worked heavy line too. Not many "gravy" jobs went to him.

    He is one of the guys who will take great pains to talk a prospective young would be tech into doing someting else.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    edited May 2013
    Decades to become a good tech, yet I keep finding myself fixing stuff on my cars after a 2 minute net search. See the disconnect?

    While doc would lead us to believe that being a master tech is more difficult than becoming a brain surgeon (which only requires one decade of study) ... it's basically something most of us could do.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It makes sense that they would be in the rarified atmosphere of the top tier in auto tech salaries--they are, after all, working in northern California (Bay Area), one of the most expensive places in the USA to live, and they are working on Porsche, one of the most expensive everyday road cars you can buy. There's also a fair amount of stress involved, since one could easily make a $15,000 mistake on one of these cars. :surprise:

    Two of the techs there are qualified to build Porsche engines, and one can do automatic transmissions on Porsche and Audi, so the skill level is pretty high at this shop.

    We aren't talking about brake jobs at Midas here.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited May 2013
    You hit the nail on the head.

    Working on an exotic in an expensive part of the country as Marin County certainly is would probably command about as much money as any technician could make anywhere.

    I know two years ago, a Mercedes Dealer in Orange County was at 160.00/hr and I would guess the store in Newport Beach was even higher.

    Do you know what your shop is charging, Shifty?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I believe it is $135/hr, which is lower than the dealer of course.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I remember, when I was very young a friend of my dad's was complaining that the local Chevy dealer was charging 10.00/hr!
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    And, there's certainly no shortage of folks that continuously feel like its only their ox that is being gored...
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