I just don't understand what is so hard about correlating the standards provided in the owners manual to what is available off the shelf.
Imagine trying to run a shop, pay attention to and follow those specifications and still realize a profit and not drive potential customers away. I can show you three places in the area around our shop that still post $21.95 "oil changes", two of which are national chains. Even when we get the techs to learn how important the specs are, their management ignores that information because it doesn't line up with what the oil companies are telling them. You can go right back to Ron's article to see that it happened here as well.
Now, if sometime down the road after the car has been purchased, the manufacturer changes the specifications and makes no attempt to inform original owners, seems to me that's a great class-action even waiting to happen. You can't blame someone if you change the rules of the game and don't tell them about it.
Go back and watch the roll out of GM's dexos. With all of the backlash they had occur, and especially where people were touted as experts who were saying it wasn't necessary to use an oil approved by GM, it's no wonder that we still have to work really hard to explain the spec change to customers. GM did everything that they really needed to, we got the message and adapted our routine accordingly. The people who need to answer questions are the ones who for whatever reason were at odds with the spec then, and still haven't accepted yet it today.
So true. Odd thing is, when I read stories such as this, most of the details are never supplied.
Wonder why that is.... Rule #1. Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
Reasons? There are many. When that one fellow in California tried to cash in on the alleged unintended acceleration claims with Toyota he got instant media fame, and Toyota got instant blame. As that story unfolded there were dozens of "experts" coming out of the woodwork who the media paraded past the camera, and almost all of them made one critical mistake. They didn't verify the complaint and test to prove what was happening, they simply made a guess and then molded ideas to support their guess. Once the facts started to enter the picture the media simply ran to a different story normally without admitting that they blew it with their reports.
This story telling has simply been getting copied over, and over and you see it with jmonroes as well. The only part of it that plays well and sells is his messing with the dealer over his mistake that Hyundai took exception to. Screwing the dealer sells, being Hyundai's "victim" sells. Trying to make the dealer pay for someone else's mistake get's lost in the fray. The really sad part is that the dealer apparently even tried to do something to help make it better but as the story is told the only thing that mattered by that time was the money but it didn't get looked at that way. In all seriousness, the dealer could write a check to jmonroe for something that they weren't at fault for but would that really have mended the fence? How would writing that check heal the wounds or the dealers reputation? Would writing that check guarantee that jmonroe would start doing business with them again, as well as make an effort to erase the damage his story was supposed to bring onto the dealer? When you really think about it, the dealer by that time had nothing to gain by even trying to do anything because that only served to make it look like they did do something wrong.
>When that one fellow in California tried to cash in on the alleged unintended acceleration claims with Toyota he got instant media fame, and Toyota got instant blame.
Oh, do you mean the Saylor family who were killed when the toyota continued out of control? Yeah, they got lots of fame.
>Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
So, do you know there was something left out of Jmonroe's story about the Hyundai engine failure? What did cause the failure then in your analysis?
>Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
What were you saying about the toyota engine sludging problems while they were still stonewalling that problem just as they did with the unintended acceleration? Were those just customers' faults? Or was there recommended oil change interval problems, engine design flaws, and etc.?
>When that one fellow in California tried to cash in on the alleged unintended acceleration claims with Toyota he got instant media fame, and Toyota got instant blame.
Oh, do you mean the Saylor family who were killed when the toyota continued out of control? Yeah, they got lots of fame.
What's the point of that question? It is widely accepted that tragedy was caused by floor mats that held the accelerator to the floor. Combine that with the fact that at that time no-one knew how to depower the car and the result was horrible. So, of course that is not the person (or people) I was referring to. It was this one. http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-ac- celeration
So, do you know there was something left out of Jmonroe's story about the Hyundai engine failure? What did cause the failure then in your analysis?
Better question, do you? I already asked the question, what was it that failed. What caused the failure? I also would like to know the details as to why Hyundai decided to say no for the warranty. Do you know the answer to that?
These answers are important to help other consumers avoid the situation that jmonroe encountered.
What were you saying about the toyota engine sludging problems while they were still stonewalling that problem just as they did with the unintended acceleration? Were those just customers' faults? Or was there recommended oil change interval problems, engine design flaws, and etc.?
Seems Toyota stepped up to the plate and dealt with those didn't they? They allowed the consumers to use a product of a given specification, and that specification failed to protect their engines. Did you know that at just about the same time other manufacturers were dealing with various levels of engine failures from people (including their own dealers) using non-approved products.
We're on the road next week and hope to get out more this summer in general so I went up the road this morning and got new tires for the van. My wife had stopped in the shop a week earlier to ask about the tires I wanted. They didn't treat her like an idiot and they ordered a set (without obligation) since they didn't have what I wanted in stock.
The shop owner didn't blink an eye when I asked him how fresh the tires were, and he promptly found the code for me. Then I mentioned how I tend to average a flat a year and wanted to be able to get the lugnuts off myself and he explained how they torque the nuts to spec and don't hammer them on with the airtools. When I picked it up, they had topped up my windshield washer fluid, checked my front discs and checked the coolant too.
It's nice to find another well run shop in my area (I'm headed East doc, so if the van hiccups, I'll track you down. :shades: ).
Imagine trying to run a shop, pay attention to and follow those specifications and still realize a profit and not drive potential customers away. I can show you three places in the area around our shop that still post $21.95 "oil changes", two of which are national chains. Even when we get the techs to learn how important the specs are, their management ignores that information because it doesn't line up with what the oil companies are telling them. You can go right back to Ron's article to see that it happened here as well.
Touché...
All I have to deal with is the group of vehicles that I own... Keeping track of 5 or 6 specific vehicles is always going to be simpler than trying to stay informed on every make and model of vehicle in service.
I'd probably feel much as you do if I had to keep track of the lubrication specifications for all my neighborhood cars and not just my own.
It's nice to find another well run shop in my area (I'm headed East doc, so if the van hiccups, I'll track you down
OK, you know how to find me, but I'm headed east from here too so I won't be in the shop. But, where I am teaching has a hands on component to the class and they have an open slate to take in anything which allows me to really present and drive home the routines that support proper diagnostic habits. I'll be in the Wash DC area all week. Lets hope that your trip is free from aggravations, but we will be service ready if you need us..
Both my BMW's , my wife's MINI, and my Tacoma pickup have the oil weight posted on the oil filler cap, so that part of the equation is solved.
Still, there's nothing posted under the hood about what oil specifications need to be met, other than the oil weight... One might think that to be a good idea for manufacturers to do.
Both my BMW's , my wife's MINI, and my Tacoma pickup have the oil weight posted on the oil filler cap, so that part of the equation is solved
Is 5W30 what is written on all of them? (It could be) The Euro 5W30 is completely different than the Asian 5W30. (Which is different from a 5W30 that meets GM's spec)
Is 5W30 what is written on all of them? (It could be) The Euro 5W30 is completely different than the Asian 5W30. (Which is different from a 5W30 that meets GM's spec)
Oops! Time for me to eat a little crow...
I went out and did a visual on my vehicles. The BMW products don't have the weight stamped on the filler cap after all, but they do have a decal in front of the engine, above the radiator, stating the BMW part number of the correct oil. The caps do have Castrol stamped on them. The MINI has an oil can pictured on the cap, with the instructions to reference the owner's manual for the correct oil.
The Tacoma does indeed have the oil weight(s) stamped on the filler cap, as it shows 5w-20 and 0w-20, but no suggested oil brand.
Looks like my memory is fading.
I would have bet $2.00 that oil weights were on the BMW caps as well.
But, as I tell folks, don't take everything you read on the Internet as the truth, unless you verify it. Even the best intentioned of us make the occasional mistake.
That's why human witness accounts are so unreliable, even when the one giving the account is positive of what he saw.
Oh, well....looks like no "atta-boy" for me today...
Honda solves the dummy mechanic problem when it comes to motor oil specifications by typing in large fonts right onto the oil cap "5W - 20"
Even that's not foolproof, because then you're going to have the dumb blonde who brings in her part that she that she says has "710" stamped on it, and she's going to ask for "0Z-MS" or something similar! :P
I guess I could have Googled this, but what years? Were any CRV years involved that you know?
I'm a bit of a convert I guess. I have read enough here that I believe that if cooling oil doesn't fall away fast enough from the bottom of a piston, that harmful levels of heat/sludge/creating more heat, can cost longevity issues. Just as an example.. And another would be a mfgr discovering that a lighter oil follows a narrow path somewhere with less chance of sludge starting..hey..if they actually post an addendum, I'm all ears..
Not sure, but I believe it started with the new 2012 model Civic, which I own.
Because of the 0w-20 I'm looking at a $50 oil change instead of $24. But, just went to 50% oil life remaining at 5,500 miles, so cost will be about the same. Dealership wants me to come in every 5,000 miles.
Edited:started using 0w-20 in the 2003 Civic, and the 2010 Crv... as well as in their hybrid models.
The franchises just may the only ones that'll be left standing that will have deep enough pockets to train techs. JL is owned by Shell, and they certainly could invest a lot and expand way beyond brake jobs too.
Oh, my sister is out toward Winchester, near the W. VA line. She's been pretty happy with the mechanic I found online for her. I'd sure hear about it if she wasn't, lol.
The van has a very slight miss since the timing belt. I'll check the mpg on the drive home when I fill up (2 hours away this morning) but I think it's normal. So I don't think the belt is off a tooth on the rear cog. The MAF on this one rarely needs cleaning, so the net says, and I've done a little throttle body spritzing and checked the air filter. The plug wiring is relatively new (for me, lol - only 50k). Ditto the plugs and distributor.
Oh sure. What they showed was definitely criminal. Although, and I'm not lawyer, but if in a court, you'd have to show it was intentional, wouldn't you? I'm surprised nobody they put on the spot just said "it must have been an oversight on the part of the technician."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thanks. I have a friend with one of those older Civics. Gonna make sure she asks the shop what they use. Looks my CRV is old enough that it isn't one of the ones that required the switch. I use 5W20, but I use a full synthetic, but I also do my own changes so helps keep the costs down..unless I pay myself the time I invest...then I lose, except knowing that nothing else was messed with when the hood was up etc...and that equates to a lot so..
I'd be curious what the reasons are behind the need for 0W20. it could be as simple as a recommendation to get closer to claimed FE numbers, but probably a lot more serious than that. Doc, could probably elaborate. I'd Google it, but I think I trust Doc more than Google on this.
I watched that video. It's pretty condemning. It wasn't upsell, if NBC is telling the story accurately. The alleged actions could be called robbery.
I agree. They got caught doing exactly what they have to do in order to get the numbers that their management wants them to produce. If a tech simply changes the oil and doesn't upsell anything on a routine basis then the store won't produce a profit and eventually everyone is in trouble for it. Just like NBC's story a couple years back (theres that name again) what is going to happen is the little guys and gals will take the fall for this because ultimately they have to do what the bosses want them to do. It starts out innocently enough such as a store (manager) bonus if they sell a given number of wiper blades. The idea is to make sure that the people are really checking them. If a store is sloppy about checking them, then they get missed during the inspections which of course would be bad. But the real result of forced checks is that they lead to over-selling, and the store and especially the manager is rewarded for the effort. At the same time if there aren't enough wipers sold then the store gets penalized. It would go down something like this. At a managers meeting, Shifty's store and Steves store would be at the top of the sales sheet showing that they both sold XX% of wiper blades per YY visits. That means they have their teams doing a great job and they earn a bonus for that effort. Meanwhile Isells, and Jipsters teams failed to reach the percentage that is expected so they must not be training their people to really be checking them so they get warnings and no-bonuses. When its presented to them that their people are letting their customers drive around with bad wiper blades and that could get their customers hurt, plus they lose money from their paychecks that they see Shifty and Steve get, what do you think happens when they get back to their stores?
Now multiply that idea out by all of the possible services that could be sold and in time the system trains people do do things that they never thought that they would. Part of the idea is that the harder someone works, the more they should be able to earn. The ironic part about this trade is that it rarely works that way inpractice. Someone who is checking everything correctly and makes a point to not sell unless it is really needed is working much harder, while earning less than the ones who give in and start overselling.
Personally if I could have had my way the quick lube phenomenon would have never taken off because it has caused some other issues inside the trade, not the least of which is an entire set of dead end jobs that no longer lead directly to a career as a full technician. (JMHO) The sad part is that now we are stuck with them and so are consumers. If Jiffy Lube got all bent over this and shuttered their doors , or if consumers simply quit using quick lubes we don't have enough shops and techs to handle the workload that would produce. We used to, but the quick lube strategy has worked to eliminate that capability.
One closing point. We are now back to one of the points that the author of the e-myth makes. This is bad publicity for JL, but the author points out that any publicity, even bad publicity is good for a company that is large enough. People have short memories and will soon return to using JL just as they have for years. This news cast proves that the older one had no real impact on JL. Strangely, its shops like mine (techs like me) that end up dealing with the majority of the backlash of these news stories.
If a tech simply changes the oil and doesn't upsell anything on a routine basis then the store won't produce a profit and eventually everyone is in trouble for it.
At the same time if there aren't enough wipers sold then the store gets penalized.
Now multiply that idea out by all of the possible services that could be sold and in time the system trains people do do things that they never thought that they would. Part of the idea is that the harder someone works, the more they should be able to earn.
Geez, doc...denial or what? Your entire post did not address the fact that we aren't just talking about upsales. We are talking about blatant premeditated theft! Not ONE part of your posts acknowledges that! Why? They didn't just get caught upselling a fuel filter. They got CAUGHT charging for one that wasn't even touched! And it wasn't an isolated item in which it could have been overlooked accidentally...the freakin' crook/grease monkey admitted in his own words they GOT CAUGHT while on the phone with his area manager. And there were lots of other examples besides just the fuel filter one. A picture was painted pretty vividly, regardless of media agenda.
In my opinion you are so used to feeling you have to defend the industry, blatant non grey areas like cases of THEFT, have somehow gotten by you..amazing..
Shifty wrote and I copied. I watched that video. It's pretty condemning. It wasn't upsell, if NBC is telling the story accurately. The alleged actions could be called robbery.
My response starts with I agree
The whole post isn't a defense, its about putting the blame where it belongs, which isn't just on the people in the stores. If the management doesn't take the fall for this, then nothing will change. Now sure they will change some employees who got caught of course but as the video's prove they will be right back to doing the same things in a short period of time.
Try re-wording your response now that you see I feel what goes on there is criminal just like everyone else should, but I don't only blame the employees, I blame their management and hold them fully responsible.
Try re-wording your response now that you see I feel what goes on there is criminal just like everyone else should, but I don't only blame the employees, I blame their management and hold them fully responsible.
Damn straight! But I still don't agree that we need JL and that it hurts us if they closed doors due to supposed exposure to bankruptcy by not stealing from people anymore. It is one thing to upsell a service to make the numbers work (assuming that IS required, and for this I will take your word for it) but it is QUITE ANOTHER TO REGULARLY CHARGE FOR WORK THAT NOT ONLY WASN'T DONE, BUT THERE WASN'T EVEN ANY INTENTION OF DOING THE WORK!
Actually, doc, you are so far outta that low class type of business, that, IMO, you stepped in it when you didn't even have to. I do not believe there would be even one reader here, not even RB that would imagine you stealing from a customer.
i.e. for clarity...you're not in their league so why even go there?
I understand that part of your comments, but maintain that that simply leaves a place open for a new business name that doesn't outright and with premeditation steal from people...maybe a business like Mr. Lube, which is quite big here in Cda. Owner is one of the Dragon's Den members, Jim Treliving, who is also Boston Pizza (Boston Pizza Royalties Income Fund Announces Record Quarterly Franchise Sales of $186.3 Million (ccnm) VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwired - May 9, 2013) - Boston Pizza Royalties Income Fund (TSX:BPF.UN) and Boston Pizza International Inc. - Highlights Highest ever quarterly Franchise Sales1 from royalty pool restaurants of $186.3 million). Mr. Lube might already be in the USA? If so, then an even easier avenue to pick up the slack.
I dunno...I guess I have basically zero tolerance for such blatant corruption as this new (and recurring) JL re-exposure. Let the bast%#^s close up and open doors for new businessmen...ones with a conscience.
Also...since this has been going on for some time now, there must be stats that would show... just how supposedly precarious are the other JL shops that were found to be honest? Maybe with there being strength in numbers, they have told head office to.....you know what...and maybe the real story here is just same old NBC crap, and what really needs fixing is those found dishonest... YOU'RE OUT!...no more chances...and impose horrendously huge fines for head office as a measure to discourage the practice of this type of crookedness from ceasing to filter down to those franchisees who are weak-minded and drink the Kool-Aid.
The chains are often pitted against others in their area on items such as Transaction Counts and Average Dollars sold per transaction.
This serves to encourage dishonesty and taking shortcuts.
In my many years in the tool business I watched this first hand and even heard employees bragging about this to one another.
This is why I always advise people to "Avoid the Chains".
I won't name names here but I have seen some deplorable things done.
The only thing that bothered me a bit was the fact that in amnost every case, the customer stands (or sits) while the work is being done. How sould someone not notice that that transmission flushing machine was never hooked up to their car?
Or how could they not notice that nobody dropped their fuel tank to change that filter?
I'm not saying that all chain stores are dishonest but a lot of them do some edgy things.
Comments
Imagine trying to run a shop, pay attention to and follow those specifications and still realize a profit and not drive potential customers away. I can show you three places in the area around our shop that still post $21.95 "oil changes", two of which are national chains. Even when we get the techs to learn how important the specs are, their management ignores that information because it doesn't line up with what the oil companies are telling them. You can go right back to Ron's article to see that it happened here as well.
There is a lot of press/pressure to try and keep it that way.
Go back and watch the roll out of GM's dexos. With all of the backlash they had occur, and especially where people were touted as experts who were saying it wasn't necessary to use an oil approved by GM, it's no wonder that we still have to work really hard to explain the spec change to customers. GM did everything that they really needed to, we got the message and adapted our routine accordingly. The people who need to answer questions are the ones who for whatever reason were at odds with the spec then, and still haven't accepted yet it today.
Wonder why that is....
Rule #1. Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
Reasons? There are many. When that one fellow in California tried to cash in on the alleged unintended acceleration claims with Toyota he got instant media fame, and Toyota got instant blame. As that story unfolded there were dozens of "experts" coming out of the woodwork who the media paraded past the camera, and almost all of them made one critical mistake. They didn't verify the complaint and test to prove what was happening, they simply made a guess and then molded ideas to support their guess. Once the facts started to enter the picture the media simply ran to a different story normally without admitting that they blew it with their reports.
This story telling has simply been getting copied over, and over and you see it with jmonroes as well. The only part of it that plays well and sells is his messing with the dealer over his mistake that Hyundai took exception to. Screwing the dealer sells, being Hyundai's "victim" sells. Trying to make the dealer pay for someone else's mistake get's lost in the fray. The really sad part is that the dealer apparently even tried to do something to help make it better but as the story is told the only thing that mattered by that time was the money but it didn't get looked at that way. In all seriousness, the dealer could write a check to jmonroe for something that they weren't at fault for but would that really have mended the fence? How would writing that check heal the wounds or the dealers reputation? Would writing that check guarantee that jmonroe would start doing business with them again, as well as make an effort to erase the damage his story was supposed to bring onto the dealer? When you really think about it, the dealer by that time had nothing to gain by even trying to do anything because that only served to make it look like they did do something wrong.
Oh, do you mean the Saylor family who were killed when the toyota continued out of control? Yeah, they got lots of fame.
>Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
So, do you know there was something left out of Jmonroe's story about the Hyundai engine failure? What did cause the failure then in your analysis?
>Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
What were you saying about the toyota engine sludging problems while they were still stonewalling that problem just as they did with the unintended acceleration? Were those just customers' faults? Or was there recommended oil change interval problems, engine design flaws, and etc.?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh, do you mean the Saylor family who were killed when the toyota continued out of control? Yeah, they got lots of fame.
What's the point of that question? It is widely accepted that tragedy was caused by floor mats that held the accelerator to the floor. Combine that with the fact that at that time no-one knew how to depower the car and the result was horrible. So, of course that is not the person (or people) I was referring to. It was this one. http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-ac- celeration
So, do you know there was something left out of Jmonroe's story about the Hyundai engine failure? What did cause the failure then in your analysis?
Better question, do you? I already asked the question, what was it that failed. What caused the failure? I also would like to know the details as to why Hyundai decided to say no for the warranty. Do you know the answer to that?
These answers are important to help other consumers avoid the situation that jmonroe encountered.
What were you saying about the toyota engine sludging problems while they were still stonewalling that problem just as they did with the unintended acceleration? Were those just customers' faults? Or was there recommended oil change interval problems, engine design flaws, and etc.?
Seems Toyota stepped up to the plate and dealt with those didn't they? They allowed the consumers to use a product of a given specification, and that specification failed to protect their engines. Did you know that at just about the same time other manufacturers were dealing with various levels of engine failures from people (including their own dealers) using non-approved products.
Who's going to watch Fox News if their pundits start praising Obama's job?
Who's going to watch MSNBC if they start preaching GWB was justified on invading Iraq?
"Dog bites man"... Not newsworthy.
"Man bites dog"... Front page news.
Isn't it obvious?
By asking the question, one can then start to make assumptions and come to conclusions (or, is it contusions, lol?)
Don't you see that often?
"My A/C was working just fine on my 1985 GEO when I had you replace the wiper blades, and now, 2 months later it doesn't cool.
What did YOU DO to my car???"
The shop owner didn't blink an eye when I asked him how fresh the tires were, and he promptly found the code for me. Then I mentioned how I tend to average a flat a year and wanted to be able to get the lugnuts off myself and he explained how they torque the nuts to spec and don't hammer them on with the airtools. When I picked it up, they had topped up my windshield washer fluid, checked my front discs and checked the coolant too.
It's nice to find another well run shop in my area (I'm headed East doc, so if the van hiccups, I'll track you down. :shades: ).
Touché...
All I have to deal with is the group of vehicles that I own... Keeping track of 5 or 6 specific vehicles is always going to be simpler than trying to stay informed on every make and model of vehicle in service.
I'd probably feel much as you do if I had to keep track of the lubrication specifications for all my neighborhood cars and not just my own.
OK, you know how to find me, but I'm headed east from here too so I won't be in the shop. But, where I am teaching has a hands on component to the class and they have an open slate to take in anything which allows me to really present and drive home the routines that support proper diagnostic habits. I'll be in the Wash DC area all week. Lets hope that your trip is free from aggravations, but we will be service ready if you need us..
You can't miss it.
What does Honda do when a vehicle requires HTO-06?
What about the cars where Honda has revised the spec to 0W20?
Still, there's nothing posted under the hood about what oil specifications need to be met, other than the oil weight... One might think that to be a good idea for manufacturers to do.
Don't ask me what 5W20 upside down and backwards spells out. OZMS? Ohhh, 5W30 resolves to OEMS - we're back to "factory" oil. :shades:
Do you think it would REALLY make one twit of difference in a car's life if a person were to use 5W-20 when it called for 0-20?
That solves that.
That's a really great question.
Is 5W30 what is written on all of them? (It could be) The Euro 5W30 is completely different than the Asian 5W30. (Which is different from a 5W30 that meets GM's spec)
Which are, please?
Oops! Time for me to eat a little crow...
I went out and did a visual on my vehicles. The BMW products don't have the weight stamped on the filler cap after all, but they do have a decal in front of the engine, above the radiator, stating the BMW part number of the correct oil. The caps do have Castrol stamped on them. The MINI has an oil can pictured on the cap, with the instructions to reference the owner's manual for the correct oil.
The Tacoma does indeed have the oil weight(s) stamped on the filler cap, as it shows 5w-20 and 0w-20, but no suggested oil brand.
Looks like my memory is fading.
I would have bet $2.00 that oil weights were on the BMW caps as well.
But, as I tell folks, don't take everything you read on the Internet as the truth, unless you verify it. Even the best intentioned of us make the occasional mistake.
That's why human witness accounts are so unreliable, even when the one giving the account is positive of what he saw.
Oh, well....looks like no "atta-boy" for me today...
Even that's not foolproof, because then you're going to have the dumb blonde who brings in her part that she that she says has "710" stamped on it, and she's going to ask for "0Z-MS" or something similar! :P
I'm a bit of a convert I guess. I have read enough here that I believe that if cooling oil doesn't fall away fast enough from the bottom of a piston, that harmful levels of heat/sludge/creating more heat, can cost longevity issues. Just as an example..
And another would be a mfgr discovering that a lighter oil follows a narrow path somewhere with less chance of sludge starting..hey..if they actually post an addendum, I'm all ears..
Yet another example of the media hooking on, or creating, a negative buzz.I'd prefer to see 4 out of 11 Jiffy Boobs don't scam customers. :mad:
With the extended drains they aren't seeing enough traffic and thats hurting them so they are tryig to branch out into other areas.
Having driven in DC before that doesn't tell me much. :sick:
Deliver? Thats something near destomach. :P
Because of the 0w-20 I'm looking at a $50 oil change instead of $24. But, just went to 50% oil life remaining at 5,500 miles, so cost will be about the same. Dealership wants me to come in every 5,000 miles.
Edited:started using 0w-20 in the 2003 Civic, and the 2010 Crv... as well as in their hybrid models.
Oh, my sister is out toward Winchester, near the W. VA line. She's been pretty happy with the mechanic I found online for her. I'd sure hear about it if she wasn't, lol.
The van has a very slight miss since the timing belt. I'll check the mpg on the drive home when I fill up (2 hours away this morning) but I think it's normal. So I don't think the belt is off a tooth on the rear cog. The MAF on this one rarely needs cleaning, so the net says, and I've done a little throttle body spritzing and checked the air filter. The plug wiring is relatively new (for me, lol - only 50k). Ditto the plugs and distributor.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Something we agree on, Shiftright!
That base was covered when one of the crooks...err..mechanics used the words "caught us", when he called his boss.
I'd be curious what the reasons are behind the need for 0W20. it could be as simple as a recommendation to get closer to claimed FE numbers, but probably a lot more serious than that. Doc, could probably elaborate. I'd Google it, but I think I trust Doc more than Google on this.
That reminds me of the Steve Martin routine about "Never Pay Taxes Again for the Rest of your Life!"
His defense?
You go to the IRS and say "I forgot".
I agree. They got caught doing exactly what they have to do in order to get the numbers that their management wants them to produce. If a tech simply changes the oil and doesn't upsell anything on a routine basis then the store won't produce a profit and eventually everyone is in trouble for it. Just like NBC's story a couple years back (theres that name again) what is going to happen is the little guys and gals will take the fall for this because ultimately they have to do what the bosses want them to do. It starts out innocently enough such as a store (manager) bonus if they sell a given number of wiper blades. The idea is to make sure that the people are really checking them. If a store is sloppy about checking them, then they get missed during the inspections which of course would be bad. But the real result of forced checks is that they lead to over-selling, and the store and especially the manager is rewarded for the effort. At the same time if there aren't enough wipers sold then the store gets penalized. It would go down something like this. At a managers meeting, Shifty's store and Steves store would be at the top of the sales sheet showing that they both sold XX% of wiper blades per YY visits. That means they have their teams doing a great job and they earn a bonus for that effort. Meanwhile Isells, and Jipsters teams failed to reach the percentage that is expected so they must not be training their people to really be checking them so they get warnings and no-bonuses. When its presented to them that their people are letting their customers drive around with bad wiper blades and that could get their customers hurt, plus they lose money from their paychecks that they see Shifty and Steve get, what do you think happens when they get back to their stores?
Now multiply that idea out by all of the possible services that could be sold and in time the system trains people do do things that they never thought that they would. Part of the idea is that the harder someone works, the more they should be able to earn. The ironic part about this trade is that it rarely works that way inpractice. Someone who is checking everything correctly and makes a point to not sell unless it is really needed is working much harder, while earning less than the ones who give in and start overselling.
Personally if I could have had my way the quick lube phenomenon would have never taken off because it has caused some other issues inside the trade, not the least of which is an entire set of dead end jobs that no longer lead directly to a career as a full technician. (JMHO) The sad part is that now we are stuck with them and so are consumers. If Jiffy Lube got all bent over this and shuttered their doors , or if consumers simply quit using quick lubes we don't have enough shops and techs to handle the workload that would produce. We used to, but the quick lube strategy has worked to eliminate that capability.
One closing point. We are now back to one of the points that the author of the e-myth makes. This is bad publicity for JL, but the author points out that any publicity, even bad publicity is good for a company that is large enough. People have short memories and will soon return to using JL just as they have for years. This news cast proves that the older one had no real impact on JL. Strangely, its shops like mine (techs like me) that end up dealing with the majority of the backlash of these news stories.
At the same time if there aren't enough wipers sold then the store gets penalized.
Now multiply that idea out by all of the possible services that could be sold and in time the system trains people do do things that they never thought that they would. Part of the idea is that the harder someone works, the more they should be able to earn.
Geez, doc...denial or what? Your entire post did not address the fact that we aren't just talking about upsales. We are talking about blatant premeditated theft! Not ONE part of your posts acknowledges that! Why?
They didn't just get caught upselling a fuel filter. They got CAUGHT charging for one that wasn't even touched! And it wasn't an isolated item in which it could have been overlooked accidentally...the freakin' crook/grease monkey admitted in his own words they GOT CAUGHT while on the phone with his area manager. And there were lots of other examples besides just the fuel filter one. A picture was painted pretty vividly, regardless of media agenda.
In my opinion you are so used to feeling you have to defend the industry, blatant non grey areas like cases of THEFT, have somehow gotten by you..amazing..
Shifty wrote and I copied.
I watched that video. It's pretty condemning. It wasn't upsell, if NBC is telling the story accurately. The alleged actions could be called robbery.
My response starts with
I agree
The whole post isn't a defense, its about putting the blame where it belongs, which isn't just on the people in the stores. If the management doesn't take the fall for this, then nothing will change. Now sure they will change some employees who got caught of course but as the video's prove they will be right back to doing the same things in a short period of time.
Try re-wording your response now that you see I feel what goes on there is criminal just like everyone else should, but I don't only blame the employees, I blame their management and hold them fully responsible.
Strangely, its shops like mine (techs like me) that end up dealing with the majority of the backlash of these news stories.
Damn straight! But I still don't agree that we need JL and that it hurts us if they closed doors due to supposed exposure to bankruptcy by not stealing from people anymore. It is one thing to upsell a service to make the numbers work (assuming that IS required, and for this I will take your word for it) but it is QUITE ANOTHER TO REGULARLY CHARGE FOR WORK THAT NOT ONLY WASN'T DONE, BUT THERE WASN'T EVEN ANY INTENTION OF DOING THE WORK!
i.e. for clarity...you're not in their league so why even go there?
Run the numbers. There aren't enough of us to take care of all of you. They get to win by default. :sick:
VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwired - May 9, 2013) - Boston Pizza Royalties Income Fund (TSX:BPF.UN) and Boston Pizza International Inc. -
Highlights
Highest ever quarterly Franchise Sales1 from royalty pool restaurants of $186.3 million).
Mr. Lube might already be in the USA? If so, then an even easier avenue to pick up the slack.
I dunno...I guess I have basically zero tolerance for such blatant corruption as this new (and recurring) JL re-exposure. Let the bast%#^s close up and open doors for new businessmen...ones with a conscience.
Also...since this has been going on for some time now, there must be stats that would show... just how supposedly precarious are the other JL shops that were found to be honest? Maybe with there being strength in numbers, they have told head office to.....you know what...and maybe the real story here is just same old NBC crap, and what really needs fixing is those found dishonest... YOU'RE OUT!...no more chances...and impose horrendously huge fines for head office as a measure to discourage the practice of this type of crookedness from ceasing to filter down to those franchisees who are weak-minded and drink the Kool-Aid.
The chains are often pitted against others in their area on items such as Transaction Counts and Average Dollars sold per transaction.
This serves to encourage dishonesty and taking shortcuts.
In my many years in the tool business I watched this first hand and even heard employees bragging about this to one another.
This is why I always advise people to "Avoid the Chains".
I won't name names here but I have seen some deplorable things done.
The only thing that bothered me a bit was the fact that in amnost every case, the customer stands (or sits) while the work is being done. How sould someone not notice that that transmission flushing machine was never hooked up to their car?
Or how could they not notice that nobody dropped their fuel tank to change that filter?
I'm not saying that all chain stores are dishonest but a lot of them do some edgy things.