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I was catching up on some posts over in Stories from the Sales Frontlines, where I usually hang out, and I saw where ‘roadburner’ mentioned a discussion over here that concerned me so I decided to try to answer what happened with Hyundai denying my claim for a blown engine on Mrs. j’s ’05 XG350 in November 2011.
I think the best way to do it is to list some posts from Stories from the Sales Frontlines:
74736 (this is how it all started), 74752, 74779, 74794, 74861 and 74870. There are few other posts in the thread but these should be enough to fully explain the situation.
While I doubt that the incorrectly installed 5W20 oil with less than 500 miles on it did the damage, the way the dealer and Hyundai handled this is atrocious in my opinion. Especially when the dealer readily admitted, several times, that the engine was VERY clean. They had an out because of a POSSIBLE error I made on my oil log sheet and they took it. I say POSSIBLE because post 74861 shows that the dealer knows how to make mistakes too but since they held all the cards they won.
Of course this is only my side of the story so if you want to believe that I had nothing to do one day so I decided to post a wild tale about a dealership and a car manufacturer screwing a poor little car owner, I have no way to stop that kind of thinking.
‘busiris’ we had a discussion about this over in GM News, New Models and Market Share, post 21654.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You buy the car after much internet shopping, pitting dealer against dealer. You give a one time take it or leave it offer.So it's probably safe to say the dealership didn't make make much of a profit. Then you do not give the dealership any of your service business. NO oil changes, tire rotations or wiper blades. You do it all yourself. Then you expect them to go to bat for you when you need them?
I''ve been given goodwill repairs on my Mazda MPV several times in the past. Both times the dealership asks if I've had my car serviced regularly at Mazda. Goodwill seems to be more of a thing of the past. But, you need to work on building that dealership/ client relationship.At least until your warranty runs out.
If I were a manufacturer I probably wouldn't trust humanoids on this. I would require a videotape of each and every oil change. That's what you should have done. :sick:
> Sales Frontlines, where I usually hang out, and I saw where ‘roadburner’ mentioned a discussion over here that concerned me so I decided to try to answer what happened with Hyundai denying my claim for a blown engine on Mrs. j’s ’05 XG350 in November 2011.
I was ready to notify you your warranty rejection by Hyundai was being discussed here when I saw Roadburner had already taken care of that chore.
You may want to read the post here, #2689. I was surprised cardoc had all the answers without even having read your posts.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I did that to my 2000 Intrepid years ago. IIRC, the mechanic fixed it for around $120, with something called a "heli-coil" ?
Yes, let’s look at this from Hyundai’s side. At the time of the engine blow up I had 2 Hyundai’s in my possession. The XG350 that blew up and my ’09 Genny. I had owned 3 Hyundai’s over a period of 7 years so anyone with any sense of understanding/fairness would have thought I was a loyal Hyundai customer. Apparently Hyundai doesn’t think like that.
FWIW, the XG350 that blew up was purchased from the dealer that didn’t support me. But, like I said, it shouldn’t have come to that. Hyundai should have supported me.
All said and done, even if I hadn’t done 6 of the 15 oil changes on that car that I claimed to have done, the dealer said and they said the factory rep also said, “the engine was VERY CLEAN”. That should have meant something.
In post 2788 you questioned log sheets. OK, they mean almost nothing if you want to find a way to deny a claim. How about a windshield sticker that said they used 5W20 vs. 10W30. What does that mean although the service manager said, “OH, the tech knows that 5W20 is the wrong oil so he put in 10W30 like the specs call for”.
AGAIN and AGAIN, using their words (dealer and Hyundai), the engine was VERY CLEAN.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Some folks can read between the lines so I thought I’d try to explain what happened. Will that help? Who knows? It didn’t mean much to our poster buddy ‘jipster’.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, a helicoil works but before I’d drop $120 to have a mechanic charge me $120 to insert a $3 item (if that) I’d do it myself. Heck, for less that 10 cents you could use a garden hose washer if the threads were long enough to accommodate the washer thickness. However, before I tried the garden hose thingy, I’d let it soak in some oil for a week to see if it held up and didn’t show signs of deterioration. Of course that means that the plug had to be somewhat tight. The helicoil is still best because it is a permanent fix.
I had a nightmare experience when we moved to SC in ’92. While living in an apartment in August ’92, waiting for our house to be built, I had to get an oil change so I went to Jiffy Lube. We moved into the house in December ’92 and in January ‘93 after we had things in place, I changed the oil myself and found a stripped plug that wasn’t even my plug inserted into the oil pan. It was much longer than mine and as I was taking it out I was in a cold sweat when I saw it. I was damn lucky, it didn’t leak one drop. Believe it or not the pan threads were not damaged at all. I have no idea how it didn’t leak because it wasn't all that tight. This was on a Sunday so I couldn’t go to a dealer for a new plug. I had to try an auto parts to see if they had one and I lucked out again because they had an aftermarket plug that was packaged by Help. It looked identical to the OEM plug and I never had a problem with it.
To this day I keep that stripped plug on my dresser as a constant reminder that even simple things can get screwed up when you turn your car over to nitwits to have something done.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
All the answers? If you want to stir the pot, I'll play.
From a techs POV. Vehicle comes in the door with a major engine failure. Upon requiring an investigation (pull the valve cover) to confirm if it was sludged or not it is confirmed to be clean. The tech punches the time onto the job, and off of the job and the car is sitting in the bay. Then this becomes a customer pay or is warranty going to pay dance. The tech has to either put the car together enough to push it out the door, or work around it.
From here we have a number of possible scenarios.
Warranty gets denied for whatever reason:
Customer can choose to trade the car in.
The tech doesn't get paid for tearing this down and it goes to auction.
Customer can choose to repair the car, the tech gets paid to do the repair and the inspection time gets rolled into the repair.
Customer has car towed out. Tech only gets paid if there is a bill associated to the inspection.
Warranty is provided and the car gets repaired, even if a deductible is applied or its just a partial assistance.
The tech now does the job. There is no pay for the time to do the inspection or push the car in and out as was required. The repair of the car its the exact same job whether its customer pay or warranty except one way pays him/her twelve to fourteen hours, the other only pays six to seven hours even though it really does take about eleven to do the job to completion. In the end, nobody cares that the technician got ripped off and in most cases you'll see plenty of arguments that try and justify paying him/her less hours than they actually worked on a given repair.
Two weeks later the CSI card data arrives and repair visit works to lower the techs CSI average because of the marks the customer made on the survey about the event. The repair itself was flawless because of the standards that the tech holds himself/herself to and the care that went into doing the work but now he/she would have been better off if they had been sick and stayed home that day. (Without pay BTW. Techs don't get paid sick days)
busiris’ we had a discussion about this over in GM News, New Models and Market Share, post 21654.
From your posts earlier in the Sales Stories area...
I told them up front that I didn’t have the receipts for the oil or the filters but they said just show us what you have. This was when they admitted that nothing hit the engine and that the engine just blew itself up. Then they said they had to pull the valve covers because that is what the local Hyundai Service Rep was going to have them do (routine company procedure with this type of warranty claim) so that they could report what they saw. However the next day the rep was due in for a routine visit and even though they called and told him the engine was clean he could see for himself what they saw when he got there.
The “discrepancy” was that they did warranty work because of an air bag light in March 2010 and they noted the mileage at that time. The very next month I did an oil change and my log showed the mileage was LESS. I can’t believe I did this but that’s what the papers show (theirs and mine). I got to thinking about this and I think they are the ones that wrote the mileage down incorrectly but I could never prove this.
As I see it, from a Hyundai Warranty coverage POV, you have 2 problems (I'm not siding with anyone, just an observer).
1- I've always been told to save all oil/filter/service receipts for any work I perform, or have others perform. I keep every one of them in a folder, and by car. In addition, I cut the top off of every oil filter box and label it with the date of the oil change, the mileage, and brand/type of oil used, then place it in the same folder.
From a manufacturer's POV, a spreadsheet really is proof of nothing more than a spreadsheet being created.
2- I also verify the mileages when I pick my car up from a shop, the odometer to the paperwork. Every dealership I've been to in the last 30 years has had a SE read the mileage and enter it into their computer tracking system. I know the mileage going into the shop, and the mileage when the car leaves. If its significantly different, I'll ask why.
I learned to do that due to using rental cars before unlimited mileage became standard, years ago. Back then, a transposed mileage figure could cost one big-time.
The point is, there are certain responsibilities an owner must perform if a warranty is to remain active. Not beating on you, but at the end of the day, you didn't do that task well enough.
As to your outcome, it all boils down to how "graceful" the manufacturer is willing to be. From the evidence provided, it doesn't seem like much. Legally, all you would have is the sympathy of the judge and jury to rely on. The facts, such as they are, seem to lean more towards Hyundai.
No question about it, other manufacturers might have taken the high road and fixed your car. Some may have given you the outcome you got.
A lot of how one feels depends on where they're standing.
1) car owner
2) dealership
3) manufacturer
In my opinion, we would ALL be a lot better off if the "dealership" was eliminated from this, if the manufacturers owned the sales outlets / warranty repair establishments, and dealt directly with the customers. In recent years, with so many dealerships across the country being eliminated/closed I thought we had a wonderful opportunity to move in that direction, but it didn't happen, for whatever reason.
The factory is denying the warranty, and while the dealer might occasionally get some discretionary funds for "goodwill" settlements, ultimately your beef on a warranty denial is with the factory.
The dealer isn't going to do *anything* without factory approval beforehand, or he might get stuck with the bill.
In taking this new evidence into consideration, it's really not surprising Hyundai denied your claim. I think most manufacturers would... even mighty bee mmm double u.
Just a series of most unfortunate events. :sick:
On the other hand, jmonroe gave them that opportunity and they jumped at it.
Personally, I have the dealer do ALL of my oil changes while the car is under warranty so this can't happen to me.
jmonroe took a chance with a Korean company twice and this is how he was rewarded. I'm on his side on this one but he did leave a rather large loophole and they jumped through it.
A car dealership will go to bat for customers who have been loyal to their service depts. I've seen this and I think it's worth paying a few extra bucks.
Besides, I no longer want to deal with the PITA of changing my own oil, disposing of the old oil etc.
What WAS determined to be the cause of the engine failure anyway?
Yep, just like some folks take really great care of their home, only to set it on fire and burn it to the ground once in a while, to collect insurance. A well maintained home that burns doesn't mean the fire wasn't intentional.
The challenge in warranty disagreements is to separate the honest folks from the dishonest ones. Having a complete and accurate service history can go a long way in that regard, and letting the dealership do all the service is one, but not the only way, to detail the service history.
Being clean is only an indicator. Lots of engines destruct without any evidence of sludge. Sometimes, things just break.
But, I agree with Mr. Shiftright...
What WAS determined to be the cause of the engine failure anyway?
Knowing that little tidbit might answer a lot of questions.
That is what I thought all along too when they stopped at the “documentation discrepancy” (my oil log sheet). Why spend money to prove something you don’t have to prove? Personally, I think it was a random failure because from what I could gather and from ‘imbrentwood’, who started to work for a Hyundai dealership a while back, that 3.5 liter V6 engine did not have a history of that (rod through the block) or any other problem.
‘busiris’ I had some receipts for oil and filters but since I didn’t have all of them I wondered about giving them paper that wasn’t complete and when I mentioned this to the Service Advisor over the phone he said, “just give me what you have”. When I dropped off my paper that night after talking to him that day, when he saw my oil log sheet he said something like, “we can go with this, I’ve seen a lot less”.
‘isell’ I know you are not a fan of Korean cars. Maybe that’s because you have seen this happen before. Like you said I gave them a big chance to get out of it and they sure did jump at that chance. I knew that right from the beginning. FWIW, I was told by a woman who worked in the office area of the Honda plant in Ohio (met her at my nieces place at Thanksgiving dinner in 2011) that a Honda dealer would have more than likely stood behind me because Honda gives dealerships money every month for courtesy work and she said what I described sure sounded like a Honda dealer would have made the repair with no charge to me, but who knows for sure what mood any of them are going to be in on any particular day.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The dealer and / or the manufacturer might not be 100% sold on this, but if I had to, I could take it to court.
I remember back in the 70’s, when Honda first started selling cars here in America, they built their reputation on standing behind their cars, in warranty, and beyond the warranty. I heard many stories from friends about Honda going above and beyond, doing more than they had to do, and in some cases, more than any reasonable person would have expected. It worked.
On the other hand, General Motors tried this more recently with the Saturn brand. And that experiment was not nearly as successful. Perhaps because they didn’t truly live up to the hype? I don’t know personally.
That is what I thought all along too when they stopped at the “documentation discrepancy” (my oil log sheet). Why spend money to prove something you don’t have to prove? Personally, I think it was a random failure because from what I could gather and from ‘imbrentwood’, who started to work for a Hyundai dealership a while back, that 3.5 liter V6 engine did not have a history of that (rod through the block) or any other problem.
Some things are fairly obvious... A connecting rod snapped in half, protruding through the side of the block doesn't take a lot of investigation, as an example. Seized components, on the other hand, do usually require enough searching to see what caused it.
‘busiris’ I had some receipts for oil and filters but since I didn’t have all of them I wondered about giving them paper that wasn’t complete and when I mentioned this to the Service Advisor over the phone he said, “just give me what you have”. When I dropped off my paper that night after talking to him that day, when he saw my oil log sheet he said something like, “we can go with this, I’ve seen a lot less”.
While I generally take people at face value, it looks like you fell under the bus on this one. Not to add insult, and its possible it would have made no difference, but what this demonstrates to me is the need to have all your ducks perfectly lined up in a row before submitting anything. It's a hard lesson for us to learn sometimes.
Did you ever consider taking this disagreement into small claims court? In many states, no outside representation is allowed (no lawyers), and folks can present their side of an argument sanely, without having to fight a "Perry Mason" type on the other side. There are $$$ limits in small claims courts, but some states go up to $10K.
Lastly, I'd like to know more detail about the mileage discrepancy issue. Do you save your dealership work orders, etc? How about elaborating on that subject, being as precise and detailed as possible - dates, times, service performed, length of time the dealer had the car,,, you get the idea.
Seems to me, if the factory is going to deny a warranty, they would have to show that there is no manufacturing defect.
This is why I asked WHAT the cause of the engine failure was.
What if they open it up and it has nothing to do with oil? Sucked a valve, or broken timing chain/belt/guide, or the crank broke in half? What if it was oil dilution from leaking injectors? What if the block was porous and sucked in coolant?
But ultimately it depends on the judge or jury to believe your records. And sometimes it costs a lot of time and money to get to that point.
(btw, I assume you are composing off-line in Word - if you cut and paste the post into Notepad, it should strip out the Word codes that don't translate well in here. Maybe, I don’t know for sure.
Yes, I thought about small claims court and asked my BIL who works for a large firm in downtown Pittsburgh about doing this.
Get this:
He told me he would like to write a letter to the dealership but he couldn’t do that because his firm represents that dealership and that would be a conflict of interest so that went out the door real quick. He then goes on to tell me that if I wanted to see how the legal system worked I could go to small claims court but in his opinion it would have been a waste of time. Why? Because this dealership, which is located in the same town where I live, has a very good standing in the community (supports the Boys Scouts, Girl Scouts, little league teams etc.), and the town has cars and other vehicles bought from that dealership and they were going to submit a bid for an upcoming vehicle contract. He says don’t think for a minute that the magistrate isn’t without prejudice. He says I know that stinks but that’s how these things work. Talk about going against a stacked deck. Maybe he gave me some bad advice but I didn’t pursue it after that.
Lastly, I'd like to know more detail about the mileage discrepancy issue. Do you save your dealership work orders, etc? How about elaborating on that subject, being as precise and detailed as possible - dates, times, service performed, length of time the dealer had the car,,, you get the idea.
I’m sure I could find the particulars somewhere but what good would it do now? What I do remember is that the car went in for service in March 2010 and the following month I did the oil change in question. The car was at the dealership for a day to fix an air bag light that stayed on after the car was started and didn’t go off. The dealership receipt for that warranty repair said they fixed a pinched cable under the driver’s seat. Whatever they did, I never got that light again and I’m glad I never found out if the bags would deploy if I was in an accident. As you can see the work on the air bag light had no relationship with a rod going through the block.
To be honest, I’m tired of talking about it again. It didn’t go my way when it happened so why all the rehash. The only thing I’ve been able to accomplish is to discourage several people from buying at that dealership and Hyundai in general. I’ll survive and so will the dealer and Hyundai.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Crap...another point I wanted to make and now I lost it...might have to edit..
Ironically, I had slightly more than tongue in cheek deal with jmonroe to sell me this car 2 years ago, knowing that it would probably be a year to 18 months and maybe 2 years before Mrs J was willing to part with it. Had this deal happened, I'd be the one out of pocket and it would be through no fault whatsoever of jmonroe's. About the only saving grace is, I am confident that jmonroe and the missus can afford this injustice a lot more than I could have, but that's not much comfort for anyone, as I feel damn badly for them.
Oh...I guess this hits close to home cuz I do ALL my own service, but I am diligent with documentation and even take pictures of each oil change for example...the used oil in the drain contr and the new stuff going in. That combined with a few oily finger prints on my records should have any small claims jury on my side. In this case, I would still urge jmonroe to pursue just such an avenue.
Judges in small claims are generally pretty astute. jmonroe comes in with his logbook, and tells the judge he does all of his own oil changes, obsessively, and more often than called for in the manual, the judge will likely believe him. Plus, whoever heard of an engine blowing from one missed oil change?
The great thing about small claims is the use of common sense. Plus, it's civil, not criminal. The standard is not reasonable doubt. What does Hyundai say when the judge asks what specifically caused the engine failure?
It's a moot point, anyway.. Hyundai probably wouldn't send an attorney, Monroe would get a judgment that he probably couldn't collect on.. And, as noted, he doesn't really have a case against the dealership.
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I lost 3 grand as a result of all of this. That was the difference between the car with a good engine and the $2800 I got for it as it sat when I sold it to the dealer a week after Mrs. j got a Subie to replace her busted XG350. While I don’t like the idea of losing any money for any reason, as I have said before on SFTSFL, I can afford now. If this happened while I was still raising a family it would have hurt. The way I look at it you can pay well over 3 grand to get an option package or two when buying a new car. Heck, the NAV package alone on the Subie had an MSRP of $2900 plus and since I wanted the 6 cylinder vs. the 4 that was also more bucks.
Oh...I guess this hits close to home cuz I do ALL my own service, but I am diligent with documentation and even take pictures of each oil change for example...the used oil in the drain contr and the new stuff going in. That combined with a few oily finger prints on my records should have any small claims jury on my side. In this case, I would still urge jmonroe to pursue just such an avenue.
Very nice tongue-in-cheek comment, but man, just the thought of doing all that would put me over the edge and make me relinquish my car to the dealer nitwits for all future oil changes. WOW.
As for still pursuing this, after the car was sold to the dealer (just so you know, we both decided this is what we should do after I explained our options to her), Mrs. j got that bright idea that we could still fight this so she called our BIL attorney and asked if it was still possible. After he almost laughed himself out of his office chair he said she could try a Lemon Law attorney, and to get rid of her, he gave her a name. She calls this place and explains what happened. Then she tells them that we no longer have the car and they said, “HUH”? When I got home that night she reluctantly tells me at the dinner table what she did and I dribbled soup all over my bib and out my nose. :sick:
Yeah, it’s over.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But, no. A judge would look at evidence, not good intentions.
And it was 6 missed oil changes...not 1.
Where are you getting this “6 missed oil changes”? I never said I missed 6 oil changes. In post 2791 I said:
“All said and done, even if I hadn’t done 6 of the 15 oil changes on that car that I claimed to have done, the dealer said and they said the factory rep also said, “the engine was VERY CLEAN”. That should have meant something”.
That is the full quote. You misinterpreted what I said.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's very inexpensive and you get your day in court.
It's very inexpensive and you get your day in court.
As I said in post 2809, my BIL the lawyer, said I’d be wasting my time because of the dealers good standing in the community and more specifically the magistrate would not be without prejudice due to that and because of this dealers business relationship within our community.
Maybe I gave up too easily on this which is not usually the way I do things. Maybe my BIL gave me bad advice. It was free so that might be what you get for free legal advice.
FWIW, I moved back to the Pittsburgh area in 1997. I’m not in SC anymore.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
$10,000 (effective January 1, 2012), except that a plaintiff may not file a claim over $2,500 more than twice a year. Limit for local public entity or for businesses is $5,000.
Sounds like a pretty cynical lawyer--where is this? Some Banana Republic? (actually I don't want to know :P ) Sounds like some judge needs to be drummed out of office.
But yes, pretty discouraging if there is that much potential corruption at the number of levels your BIL indicated.. :sick:
The rules of evidence are pretty loose, and the judge helped us (me) get to the main point that the case was decided on.
Many states don't allow legally trained representatives to appear before the country unless they are participants in the litigation. I'm sure every state has its own rules, though.
I remember the car had something like 50,000 when we installed the reman engine which would be a pretty good indication of neglect. A 289 should have lasted a lot longer.
We gave at the time a 2 year or 24,000 mile warranty.
23,500 miles later, it was towed in with a blown engine. It still had what was left of the oil we had installed with the engine and it still had the same oil filter.
It was sludged beyond description so I refused to replace it under warranty.
Instead of going to the Store Manager who would have made me replace her engine, she instead took us to Small Claims Court where I easilly won after showing some photos of her engine with the VC covers removed.
I got lucky.
local megadealer mall (owned by Penske) has all new facilities. And Acura has now an expanded drive up menu. oil change, rotations, fluid/filter changes. Pretty much all the basic maintenance, no appointment needed, done in an hour of less. Plus they do a MP inspection with written report.
drove in, was done and out (with a wash and vacuum) in 45 minutes, and that included rotating the tires, for about $54 with a coupon (oil change for $27.
And, I know that the filter is OEM Honda. It is their branded oil. Every fluid topped up is there required one. and they have the service logged in their computer in case anything ever goes wrong (including what % the MMI was at). All for the price of going to J-L or Midas (and if I went to a quickie lube I would have still needed to go somewhere else for the rotation).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I wouldn’t say you were lucky because you had photos of the sludge. That should be pretty convincing to even a non technical person in a court room.
You mentioned that the store manager might have had you replace the engine. Was Sears that liberal back in those days? I know they were very good about standing behind their products back then but I didn’t think they were that liberal when something was obviously abused.
Back in the late 60’s I decided to use Sears oil filters instead of AC for my GM cars because I knew a guy that said he used them and they were fine. We each bought a handful when they went on sale because we saved some money compared to the AC filters. I remember after using the Sears filter the first time I decided to cut it apart and compare it to the AC. It didn’t have quite as much filter paper but I was being very picky. I think it had 2 or 3 less pleats than the AC filter and the paper seemed to be the same weight and the light from an overhead florescent shined through it about the same. I know, a very in depth garage test so I kept using the Sears filters and didn’t have any problems with them.
Eventually I had to buy more filters and when I went to take the one from the second purchase off while doing an oil change, I couldn’t get it off using my heavy duty cap filter removal tool that had always works for me. When I looked at the end of the filter I could see where the cap wrench was rounding off the flats on the end of the filter. Since I put it on I knew it wasn’t over tightened so I used my old oil filter strap wrench that had accumulated a lot of dust because I hadn’t used it for I don’t know how long. The filter came off pretty easily because as I said it wasn’t torqued on. Now I do my dissection of this filter and as I’m using my hacksaw I could tell right away the metal can was much thinner than the previous batch from Sears. The guts were the same, they just cheapened the can. I stopped using the Sears filters and bought only AC filters after that. They had a good thing going until a penny pincher somewhere decided to save Sears some money but that move stopped my friend and I from buying Sears brand filters after that. Maybe the next batch was fine but I never wanted to find out.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Back in those days, for some reason, Sears sold two different qualities of oil filters and there was quite a difference just in the weight of the filter alone.
At meetings I used to speak up and ask WHY! We didn't sell many of the cheaper filters but the price shoppers wold go for them.
Heck, we even sold two different qualities of spark plugs, tune up kits (remember those?) and brake lining.
We sold two different level quality shock absorbers and that went to THREE when the Steadyriders came out.
They liked to name things like the Diehard battery.
They didn't like my idea of naming our better quailty muffler Blowhard!
I nominate ‘isell’ for president of Edmunds "Product Naming Forum". Anyone wanna second that?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
1. Because engine failure is a major failure.
2. Because the engine has their company name on it.
3. Because legitimate honest companies stand behind their product.
4. Because that "out" as you put it was not legitimate and didn't prove anything.
5. If you want to back out of warranty coverage, the burden of proof should be on the person backing out and "breaching" the contract. In this case, the purchasing and warranty contract.
6. A company interested in a long term future should want to know exactly why their major component failed, and prevent it in the future.
7. Their customer feels strongly they should cover either the engine and /or additional diagnostics.
You sure turned that around to suit your argument. I said right from the beginning that I did NOT submit ANY receipts for oil or oil filters.
You do have a comprehension problem don't you?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This seemed to indicate to me that your dealership did not have documentation for 6 oil changes. Perhaps you need to get your story straight. :P
But, why would you keep a log of oil changes but not receipts of oil and filters purchased? Where is the logic in that? The more I comprehend... the weaker your case against Hyundai gets.
It does seem the story is evolving. I was always under the impression you had submitted at lease some receipts before being denied coverage.
Are we to assume the only thing you actually gave as proof was a spreadsheet?
If so, its little wonder you were rejected, as a spreadsheet could've easily been "conjured up" well after the problem arose.
FWIW, I looked over that log again myself and even I had to shake my head. If the EPA ever gets a hold of that thing I’ll be going before Congress trying to explain why I’ve been wasting natural resources like I’ve been doing for years. The car doesn’t have quite 41K miles on it and there have been 15 oil changes done on it. Including 2 done by someone other than me. My defense will have to be I tried for the nothing longer than five month interval time period thing but missed a few times.
I had some receipts for oil and filters but since I didn’t have all of them I wondered about giving them paper that wasn’t complete and when I mentioned this to the Service Advisor over the phone he said, “just give me what you have”. When I dropped off my paper that night after talking to him that day, when he saw my oil log sheet he said something like, “we can go with this, I’ve seen a lot less”.
I admit, I'm confused. Exactly how many oil changes did you personally do? The dealer do? Another 3rd party do?
Exactly how many receipts did you have? Why not give what you had (at least, it was partial proof .vs. no proof) as evidence?
The plot thickens....