If you really believe that what top techs do is so simple, then let's get you a job as one and see how you are doing in a year, two, and on down the road.
Why are you using THIS as some kind of defense? How did it go from me questioning oil change technique inadequacies, to "top tech" tasks? You do this often...in mid swing you turn it into something else..as some kinda defense or...I dunno what?? I wanna say some form of insecurity, but you have already proven yourself..many times over. You don't need to prove to me, or any one on this board. But don't try to slap me down with threats of me having to bring my A game...that just shows the child in ya..
You need to (still even after all these years) learn who needs a slap and who doesn't.
Well, the above runs counter to what you wrote earlier about the dealership not going to bat for you. Hyundai was just being a "PITA" to deal with... sounds like the dealership did all they could. Hyundai denied your claim, not the dealership.
That is your interpretation about that. He never cited one example of how they tried to help ME specifically. He was speaking in generalities. This used car sales manager is the one that wanted to make the dealership look good by giving me more for my car than the low ball offer he made the first time he priced it. However, the only reason he did it was because he knew it would bring big bucks if they could buy it and put it on their lot. Which is what they did. As we know, dealerships ain’t Santa Claus. They are in business to make money and they did when they sold my car. They gave me $2800 and got at least 8 grand for it.
The dealership went to bat for you, they gave you $1,000 more than your car was worth. And in return you cost them 3 sales worth thousands of dollars in profit?
Like I said above that is your interpretation and as I said above, the dealer gave me what they had to in order to get their hands on my car. I didn’t hold a gun to their head. As for costing them future sales, that is exactly what I was trying to do and if I can I’ll do it again.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Why are you taking everything as if it was written to and about you? Nothing there was penned in a personal vein, it was all intended as open perspective commentary.
Fair enough. Thanks for sharing your story, and letting us dissect the heck out of it.
C'mon 'jip' I thought I knew you better than that. It's not like you to quit so suddenly. You've gotta have more in the tank. You're just taking a breather, huh? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't plan on going back and forth with you on this..so you can pretty much say whatever ya want and I'll let others decide for themselves who is raising an overly precautionary flag or not..
Just remember, no matter how incompetent or ham-handed the tech may appear to be, it's never their fault. I learned my lesson when I was told that it was SOP to check under the hood when a car is brought to a shop for a tire change. Likewise, I didn't realize that a pothole could dislodge a BMW oil filler cap and that I wouldn't notice an oil smell or a CEL until several days and a hundred miles or so after I hit the pothole; the fact that I noticed it less than a mile after leaving the exemplary crew at Tire Kingdom was just a mere coincidence. And I guess that I didn't notice the oil cap missing or the oily mess it caused when I checked the oil the day after I hit the pothole but a couple of days before the expert technicians at the Hilton Head Tire Kingdom provided their state-of-the-art automotive care and customer service.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Your propensity to denegrate is only exceeded by the irony of you being a judge. It's funny that you haven't figured out that's what has been getting taken to task here and not if your stories are accurate.
Yesterday I watched some guy give everyone within reach a hard time because his car wasn't being worked on yet while one of the techs was trying to help a young woman who had accidently locked her keys, and her kid in her car. The moment I became aware of the situation I went over and unlocked the car because fortunately my lock-out kit was still in my car. I still haven't gotten over the disgust of seeing him selfishly carry on like he did when a child was involved. What made even less sense to me was people trying to apologize to him over his inconvenience. It makes me wonder if he's like that all of the time or if he's only like that when his car needs serviced.
you never know what's going on in someone else's head. He may have not have seen the kid; he might be peeved at being jumped in line because of a damsel in distress.
It's like when someone cuts you off on the highway...you honk your horn, you scream "DIDN'T HE SEE ME?!!
Ok, APP stands for accelerator position sensor. Not a master tech here, but seems the proper acronym should be APS. :confuse:
Well, my money was on the TPS, glad it was a small bet. I'm all in now on the APP being the culprit. I'll do a little research. If it's a easy repair, and not an expensive part, I'll try the repair myself... maybe.
Edited: Not much info on the APP, except the cost of the part is over $300. :sick:
Well Steve and I don't agree with that, presuming the parts are cheap enough.
The logic is that if we throw 3/$25 parts at a car and fix it on the 3rd try, we haven't even yet matched one hour of mechanic's diagnostic time.
If we throw the 3 parts and miss, then we have spent $75 to eliminate 3 possibilities when we DO go to the mechanic, thereby saving him and us some diagnostic time. :P
I often throw parts at my MINI because it often throws parts at me......
If we throw the 3 parts and miss, then we have spent $75 to eliminate 3 possibilities when we DO go to the mechanic, thereby saving him and us some diagnostic time.
It's getting so that not too many parts cost just 25$ any more.
And most (good) mechanics will not take your (part replacement) word for it. A truly competent mechanic will not necessarily throw your feedback out the window, but depending on the part, where it is located and so many other potential variables, he/she really should start afresh on their own.
But if you're on a budget, read on..
I suggest that if it's a part that has an electrical connector as an example..for those who aren't sure how to test said part or circuit, is to consider going through the motions of replacing part without actually replacing it. Like undoing the connector(s) and reattaching them. I have found connectors that had suffered electrolysis, yet looked just fine. I still am amazed by how appearance can fool you...especially where the crimp part of a connector meets the copper of the wire. If jigs are not set up correctly, or go out of adjustment at the factory, sometimes the crimp actually gets crimped around the plastic shielding of the wire and may puncture just enough plastic to reach a strand or two of copper inside, which temporarily camouflages the failure down the road. Ironically, this same squished plastic helps keep moisture out which further makes the connection look clean.
So if you are on a budget, consider that even though a part got replaced, it might have had more to do with disturbing the part/connections/wiring harness etc during the re and re, than the actual part replacement itself.
The logic is that if we throw 3/$25 parts at a car and fix it on the 3rd try, we haven't even yet matched one hour of mechanic's diagnostic time.
Let's use the example in Jipster's case. He said the part costs $300. Is that above or below your threshold as compared to 3/$75 or better yet signal bulbs at 3/$5. Personally I wouldn't throw $300 based on a calculated guess. However, I've thrown $250 without a blink resorting to ebay to try and recoup the loss.
Well Steve and I don't agree with that, presuming the parts are cheap enough.
Correct. A throttle position sensor is $35. Well, worth the gamble. Accelerator position sensor at $300 (which looks to be the whole pedal assembly)... no way. Would have to be close to 100% that it was the problem.
Should have gambled on that MAF sensor on my 1999 Regal. Would have saved $100 diagnostic fee. The service advisor talked me out of it.
Any signs of moisture getting into it? Just a small electro magnet basically. And if (poor) window seals etc allow moisture to get in, the replacement will fail too. Any chance of wrapping a small 'roof' of bicycle inner tube on top...assuming there were signs of corrosion.
I know I know...you'll take your chances...you've been there once so you're not going back in until you have to.. :P
Good question but no, no signs of corrosion or moisture---just the typical signs of german electronics. :P
Actually I have no complaints. The car has 104K on it. It was NOT easy to extract however.
But as Doc says, once you've done it a few times, you can get fast enough to be punished :P for doing it so quickly!
Now I have to re-attack the AC. I have thrown a *lot* of money at it, and have thrown a lot of money at mechanics, but all we get is very mediocre AC cooling.
"They" insist the fill is good, all the pressures are good, the compressor is new.
If the car sits in the shade, the AC is good all day. If the car sits in the sun and broils the all-black interior, the AC can NEVER catch up again in city driving, and it will take 1/2 hour of freeway to cool the car---no matter how hard the fan blows.
One idea we have is to connect the cooling fan to the AC circuit, using a relay, so whenever the AC is on, the cooling fan is on.
I really feel this has something to do with the temperature of the refrigerant in the condenser.
I'm sure doc can weigh in on this better than me, but with my pretty limited experience.. - did you replace the dryer? this one is often overlooked and is super important at helping keep moisture outta the system - when they evacuated, did it take them 10 min or 90 min? Longer is better. - make sure it isn't underfilled OR overfilled with gas..either can return poor efficiency. If the shop has extra long lines I think can end up simulating an overfill. - pick the bugs outta the condenser and straighten the fins
I take it you are using recirculate door closed right? Make sure something isn't blocking it from closing all the way.
I feel for ya..I could actually live with manual steering and brakes and no other options, if I can have nice cold A/C from June to Sept. We had a week in May last week that was A/C wx, but looks like we are going to pay for that dearly by the w/e..calling for 50. Just brought more firewood in today :sick:
.I could actually live with manual steering and brakes and no other options...
Up until the late 1940's, that's how everyone lived. They considered themselves lucky to have a functioning heater in the winter, and an AM radio was pure luxury
We all get used to the nicer things in life far too quickly...
I was shocked to find out that even on a mid-range car like my '57 DeSoto Firedome, a heater was optional!
I once owned a 1967 Chrysler Newport that had previously been owned by a little old lady. It had manual brakes. If that petite little lady could slow that big beast down, anybody could. Actually, I think it was disc brakes that pretty much made power assists necessary.
And I guess manual steering would be okay, as long as we went back to the slower ratios they used to have. Manual steering on a nose-heavy FWD car with wide tires and 2.9 turns lock-to-lock would probably require a professional body builder to handle!
Although, when I was saving to start building my house, I drove an E model 4 cyl Pathfinder with no air or any other options either, except it did have power steering (an option tick if you can believe it, haha) for many years, and this, long after I had had air in many vehicles previous. People can do whatever they have to if they are goal oriented enough.
Yes, manual brakes could be a real handful depending on the car...especially at speed...what a difference 10 mph could make when trying to quickly slow from 70 vs 60. (and steering too of course...finger breakers if you weren't careful) Speaking of which, I used to drive a tractor trailer with manual steering, although not for very long...one day and I quit, crap job, crap pay, crap truck...only job I ever worked at one day. This thing was one of those little conventional type GM pickup truck cabs on a fullsized frame tractor with a thin but large diameter wheel..thinner than your Desoto wheel though...and that thing was a potential HAND breaker backing into some rough huge pot-holed sites. You'd hit a small rock sticking out in a frost heaved parking lot and it would violently try to rip the wheel out of your hands.. The perk though if that were today?? No one would be holding onto the cell phone and drive that thing at the same time I tell ya..
Should have gambled on that MAF sensor on my 1999 Regal. Would have saved $100 diagnostic fee. The service advisor talked me out of it.
Didn't you know that all the burnt out car salespeople become service advisors? Looks like the one you had sold you a bag of goods. $ 100 to diagnose a bad MAF?
I really feel this has something to do with the temperature of the refrigerant in the condenser
If the condenser is not doing it's thing properly - condensing the gassified refrigerant back into a liquid, then I would agree with you. But the refrigeration really doesn't depend much on the actual temperature of the refrigerant. Most of the heat transfer takes place because of the phase change of the refrigerant from liquid to gas (in the evaporator) and back to liquid again in the condenser. This is described by the Carnot cycle.
>I really feel this has something to do with the temperature of the refrigerant in the condenser.
You're not there yet? What is happening to the temperature of the air going through the evaporator? How does that temperature compare to the temperature under the ideal, shady conditions? That's where you are in diagnosis. You have to diagnose first.
If your temperature of air coming out of the evaporator at the central vent opening is within specification when the vehicle is moving along the road at 40 mph, then there are other factors causing the van to feel warm for a long period of time.
The engine coolant fans should be coming on anytime the AC is on and the vehicle is below a certain speed. Turning them on permanently with the AC switch would bypass their turning off after the car reachs and air speed high enough to support cooling the condenser.
I've learned that with German cars, the A/C never seems to get very cold for some reason. The BMW I just sold was...well...O.K. but not as cold as our other cars.
And the R-134 stuff never seems to cool as well as the old R-12 freon.
The COLDEST A/C was any GM car built before around 1976 when they downsized the compressors. My 1965 Riviera would throw ice balls at you on the hottest days.
Nobody removes the little bleed screw on the filter cap. The temperature of the oil can easily be scalding hot, as many of the specs for an oils viscosity is 100C and then 150C. (212f-301f) Taking that little screw out doesn't eliminate the scalding risk because that is far greater when you remove the engine oil drain plug than when the filter is removed.
While removing the oil canister housing drain screw will not eliminate the chance of burning your hands, maybe it won’t even lessen that chance if you not careful, the main feature of that drain plug is to minimize the mess while removing the canister when it is full of oil. I know this is getting picky but I think that drain plug is a nice feature. I imagine that in your shop you have a LARGE drip pan but little ole me with the car up on ramps don’t have that luxury. So as I said the plug is good for me. If those that service the V8 Genesis (I don’t know what the V6 has but it’s probably the same) want to yank off the canister that is full of oil without using the drain plug on the housing I’m sure that won’t prevent them from getting the job done.
As far as the kid not using the appropriate tool, today I own 36 unique filter wrenches and I happen to know that your Hyundai takes one that is the only car that it fits and it took almost two years after your car hit production for the tool guys to carry it.
I’m beginning to wonder if you and I are talking about the same V8 Genesis oil filter canister arrangement. Because, as I said in a referenced post, the end of the canister has a 27mm hex, so you wouldn’t have to wait for a standard 27mm socket to hit the market, right?
The only thing I agree with you about is that from then on you should do your own services. I only wish that somehow you could get to experience having someone flip the tables on you, and then call you names for the trouble they cause.
You have a very defensive attitude about how you perceive outsiders viewing car mechanics. Just because those of us who aren’t in that business don’t work on cars all day long like you guys do, doesn’t mean we aren’t capable of doing some shade tree work. I know that there aren’t too many shade trees left anymore with the advent of extensive computer use in cars today but there are still some things that we can do. Oil changes being one of those.
When I said NITWIT when I was referring to the kid that did the first oil change on my Genny, I was talking about him and others that are just like him which I have seen all too often doing that work. I was NOT and I repeat I was NOT degrading your profession, just the ones that are inept. I don’t know why you feel you have to defend EVERY car mechanic because you and they share the same profession. There are some bad ones out there, honest.
Most of us non professional mechanics only have to defend ourselves from time to time not our professions too. Man, it’s gotta be awfully tough getting up in the morning knowing you have that double duty to look forward to all the time. I know I wouldn’t be good at that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was NOT and I repeat I was NOT degrading your profession, just the ones that are inept. I don’t know why you feel you have to defend EVERY car mechanic because you and they share the same profession. There are some bad ones out there, honest.
Good luck with that... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
When I was a kid working in a gas station, a lot of the older cars that came in used canister filters and they were always a PITA to deal with. The WORST was an old Dodge with a Hemi engine!
The filter can was wedged against a frame rail and unless everything was lined up and all of the gaskets and o ring were perfectly installed, it would leak and it usually took three or four tries to get it right.
Then it got to the point where almost every car used a spin on filter. Chevy was last with their V-8's and we would try to sell our customers a conversion kit so it could use spin on's.
But, now caninsters are back on many cars! WHY? Are there any benefits?
>difference with the AC on a cold start then there is during the day.
The factory service manual should give the output temperature of the AC with varying ambient intake air temperatures. It may just be overwhelmed with glass area for solar energy and an interior with higher temperature from heat absorption when sitting. But that last should be lessened in effect by driving at speed.
If the output temp is at par then your problem is not the AC itself.
There is most definitely a difference with the AC on a cold start then there is during the day.
This is another clue. Have they replaced the expansion valve? If it's faulty, it can allow the evaporator to ice. One easy way to see if this might be happening, is to see if it drips a lot more water after a shut down, than usual. If after a 30 min shut down and then on start up..after a few minutes of course..it blows fairly cold (use a thermometer, or better still a ClassII laser type) but then blows less cold in short order, this too would really point to an evaporator icing.
Isell...one of the very BEST A/C systems I have ever encountered, was my friends 86 Jetta Turbo diesel. It really had fridge-like capabilities. Maybe a one-off? It only had factory tint. The air outta the vents was super chilled...forget the figure...think it was literally under 40¼. The really impressive part too was, while it was even colder above 30 mph, it really did totally stay on top of things easily even sitting in stop and go on a 95+ day so this really speaks to overall design perfection.
But, now canisters are back on many cars! WHY? Are there any benefits?
The filter elements are easier to recycle, for one thing; when they are compacted the recycler is able to get more oil out of them. When the canister filters are mounted like they are in BMWs and Fiats(in the engine compartment) they are much easier to change then a spin-on filter: unscrew the plastic cap, let drain for a minute or so, remove old element, put new o-ring(s) on cap, drop in new element and screw on cap. Here's the cap being removed on an E83 X3:
Here's the screw-on cap and old element:
As you can see, this isn't like the old undercar canisters that required you to lie on your back and line up a metal canister, with a bolt, spring, and an o-ring. Those WERE a PITA(I know- the M30 and S38 BMW inline sixes used a similar setup).
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I could actually live with manual steering and brakes and no other options, if I can have nice cold A/C from June to Sept.
As I said in in the SFTSFL topic, I've been driving my 1975 2002 the past few days. It lacks: Power steering Power door locks Power seats Power windows Automatic temp control
The only modern touch I've added has been an Alpine AM/FM/CD player with SiriusXM and iPod compatibility- along with decent speakers. Honestly, if it had A/C I'd drive it year round. It easily keeps up with traffic and will cruise all day at 80 mph. Best of all, it lets me know I am driving a car- not piloting a video game...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So if you are on a budget, consider that even though a part got replaced, it might have had more to do with disturbing the part/connections/wiring harness etc during the re and re, than the actual part replacement itself.
I can see that we have traveled the some road. I can’t tell you how many times removing a connector and reconnecting it has “fixed” the problem for me. When you do this with a connection that “appears” to be OK you are hoping that it works and sometimes it does.
One time on a ’95 Monte Carlo I knew right away that removing a relay from the under-hood fuse/relay box would fix the problem with an ABS light because there was a lot of white electrolysis powder all over the relay pins. I wiped off the heavy stuff and after a couple times of inserting/pulling the relay out, and wala, problem “fixed”. I’m glad it worked because if I had no idea of what to do, I would have been at the mercy of a shop to fix it. I’d like to think that they would have charged only for cleaning it like I did but if a shop wanted to make money they could easily say the relay was bad and had to be replaced.
Hey ‘doc’, I’m not saying you’d do this but even you have to agree that happens.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
edit..ya know..you could retro some A/C in the 2002..of course it would dull the snap it has now..
edit 2 .. so maybe a complementary turbo to go with?
Retrofit kits used to be available(all 2002 A/C units were fitted by US dealers). It's a bit harder to find the pieces 38 years on. As for a turbo, it's easier and cheaper to install a M50 inline six or M42/44 four. Some guys have built an "M2"- a 2002 with an E30 M3 S14 motor. VERY sweet.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Hey 'roadburner', I owe you one for dragging me over into this forum. What is it with you? Misery
Rest over. If you want to exchange recipes or talk about who makes the best vacuum cleaner, then yeah, stick with the stories from the sales sidelines forum. If you want to talk about cars, why you should never change your own oil, and how to speak to a auto tech without offending them.. this is the place to be. :P
Then it got to the point where almost every car used a spin on filter. Chevy was last with their V-8's and we would try to sell our customers a conversion kit so it could use spin on's.
Yeah, and fortunately it's the same size as what my '57 DeSoto takes. I scored a bunch of them about 10-12 years ago, from an auto parts store that simply wanted them gone!
Y'know, now that I think of it, every V-8 Mopar I've ever owned was designed so that when you changed the filter, it would dump oil on the exhaust pipe.
I wonder if my Ram is designed that way, too? It's coming due for its first oil change soon. Just hit broke 3000 miles today, and it was actually 8 months ago today I bought the thing. The dealer said I should wait until the oil monitor light comes on, but call me old school...I just don't like leaving the original oil in for that long!
The dealer said I should wait until the oil monitor light comes on, but call me old school...I just don't like leaving the original oil in for that long!
I was old school too by giving the XG350 15 oil changes in a 43K mile, 7 year life and look what that got me! Too many entries on my oil log sheet was the problem. If I had fewer entries, doing it by the book, I would have had fewer chances of making an entry error.
I’m walking talking proof that sometimes you can over do it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am glad to see you post the story in this discussion. I was going to post an invitation to come help with the correct information. I felt the story was mischaracterized before you came here. I don't see anything you did wrong. Your telling doesn't change and indicates to me you were treated unfairly by Hyundai.
It has hurt some sales for Hyundai. I couldn't even stop at their nearby store. My concern is that I look more favorably on Kia, part of the same company, for a couple of models while I'm carshopping. I am really lost on what to buy, and a Forte looks interesting to me.
Would I experience the same fate. They're the same company.
Does anyone else consider the quality of a dealer's service department before they buy a car from that particular dealer? For example, my wife is so enamored with the quality of service that our local BMW dealer provides that she is extremely reluctant to leave the Munich fold and the dealer in particular. Likewise, the fact that the local MINI dealer stays booked up a couple of weeks in advance kept her from going with a MCS Countryman- and she REALLY liked it.
The reason I bring this up is because I thought about putting aside my strong preference for European iron and therefore I considered the Fiesta ST as a possible alternative to the 500 Abarth I've been looking at. The thing is, I just don't get a strong enthusiast vibe like I do at the Fiat dealer, not to mention my BMW and Mazda dealers. All three stores know that I take my cars to HPDEs and have no problem with it. As a matter of fact, the Fiat SM told me that he wants the Abarth to be seen at some gearhead venues. Which brings up the warranty issue. I've had no hassles from BMW or Mazda at all, and I don't expect any problems from Fiat(the dealer is part of the same group that owns my BMW dealer). And note that I don't expect the manufacturer to pick up the tab if I miss a shift or grab the wrong gear and blow the engine or similar. However, I'm a bit less confident about any of the local Ford dealers. As I noted in CCBA, I can hear the Ford SM saying something like: "The power window motor is dead? I'm sorry sir, but your warranty has been voided since you race the car." This isn't a slam at Ford so much as recognition of the fact that the vast majority of their customers are not enthusiasts, so it's something that they seldom-if ever-have to deal with.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Comments
Why are you using THIS as some kind of defense? How did it go from me questioning oil change technique inadequacies, to "top tech" tasks? You do this often...in mid swing you turn it into something else..as some kinda defense or...I dunno what?? I wanna say some form of insecurity, but you have already proven yourself..many times over. You don't need to prove to me, or any one on this board. But don't try to slap me down with threats of me having to bring my A game...that just shows the child in ya..
You need to (still even after all these years) learn who needs a slap and who doesn't.
That is your interpretation about that. He never cited one example of how they tried to help ME specifically. He was speaking in generalities. This used car sales manager is the one that wanted to make the dealership look good by giving me more for my car than the low ball offer he made the first time he priced it. However, the only reason he did it was because he knew it would bring big bucks if they could buy it and put it on their lot. Which is what they did. As we know, dealerships ain’t Santa Claus. They are in business to make money and they did when they sold my car. They gave me $2800 and got at least 8 grand for it.
The dealership went to bat for you, they gave you $1,000 more than your car was worth. And in return you cost them 3 sales worth thousands of dollars in profit?
Like I said above that is your interpretation and as I said above, the dealer gave me what they had to in order to get their hands on my car. I didn’t hold a gun to their head. As for costing them future sales, that is exactly what I was trying to do and if I can I’ll do it again.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
C'mon 'jip' I thought I knew you better than that. It's not like you to quit so suddenly. You've gotta have more in the tank. You're just taking a breather, huh? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You've defended your position quite well, and have been very patient with our "interrogation". Thought you may need a break.
Just remember, no matter how incompetent or ham-handed the tech may appear to be, it's never their fault. I learned my lesson when I was told that it was SOP to check under the hood when a car is brought to a shop for a tire change. Likewise, I didn't realize that a pothole could dislodge a BMW oil filler cap and that I wouldn't notice an oil smell or a CEL until several days and a hundred miles or so after I hit the pothole; the fact that I noticed it less than a mile after leaving the exemplary crew at Tire Kingdom was just a mere coincidence. And I guess that I didn't notice the oil cap missing or the oily mess it caused when I checked the oil the day after I hit the pothole but a couple of days before the expert technicians at the Hilton Head Tire Kingdom provided their state-of-the-art automotive care and customer service.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Take a deep breath and return to your corners please.
It's like when someone cuts you off on the highway...you honk your horn, you scream "DIDN'T HE SEE ME?!!
Well, maybe he didn't.
Well, my money was on the TPS, glad it was a small bet. I'm all in now on the APP being the culprit. I'll do a little research. If it's a easy repair, and not an expensive part, I'll try the repair myself... maybe.
Edited: Not much info on the APP, except the cost of the part is over $300. :sick:
Wait someone said that right? :confuse:
The logic is that if we throw 3/$25 parts at a car and fix it on the 3rd try, we haven't even yet matched one hour of mechanic's diagnostic time.
If we throw the 3 parts and miss, then we have spent $75 to eliminate 3 possibilities when we DO go to the mechanic, thereby saving him and us some diagnostic time. :P
I often throw parts at my MINI because it often throws parts at me......
It's getting so that not too many parts cost just 25$ any more.
And most (good) mechanics will not take your (part replacement) word for it. A truly competent mechanic will not necessarily throw your feedback out the window, but depending on the part, where it is located and so many other potential variables, he/she really should start afresh on their own.
But if you're on a budget, read on..
I suggest that if it's a part that has an electrical connector as an example..for those who aren't sure how to test said part or circuit, is to consider going through the motions of replacing part without actually replacing it. Like undoing the connector(s) and reattaching them. I have found connectors that had suffered electrolysis, yet looked just fine. I still am amazed by how appearance can fool you...especially where the crimp part of a connector meets the copper of the wire. If jigs are not set up correctly, or go out of adjustment at the factory, sometimes the crimp actually gets crimped around the plastic shielding of the
wire and may puncture just enough plastic to reach a strand or two of copper inside, which temporarily camouflages the failure down the road. Ironically, this same squished plastic helps keep moisture out which further makes the connection look clean.
So if you are on a budget, consider that even though a part got replaced, it might have had more to do with disturbing the part/connections/wiring harness etc during the re and re, than the actual part replacement itself.
Let's use the example in Jipster's case. He said the part costs $300. Is that above or below your threshold as compared to 3/$75 or better yet signal bulbs at 3/$5. Personally I wouldn't throw $300 based on a calculated guess. However, I've thrown $250 without a blink resorting to ebay to try and recoup the loss.
Correct. A throttle position sensor is $35. Well, worth the gamble. Accelerator position sensor at $300 (which looks to be the whole pedal assembly)... no way. Would have to be close to 100% that it was the problem.
Should have gambled on that MAF sensor on my 1999 Regal. Would have saved $100 diagnostic fee. The service advisor talked me out of it.
Case in point. One day all my door locks work except the passenger side door.
Am I going to pull off a door panel to diagnose and leave the whole mess hanging for a two days?
No, I'm going to guess and order a door lock actuator and THEN pull off the panel.
Could I have been wrong? Yes.
Was I wrong? Not this time.
I know I know...you'll take your chances...you've been there once so you're not going back in until you have to.. :P
Actually I have no complaints. The car has 104K on it. It was NOT easy to extract however.
But as Doc says, once you've done it a few times, you can get fast enough to be punished :P for doing it so quickly!
Now I have to re-attack the AC. I have thrown a *lot* of money at it, and have thrown a lot of money at mechanics, but all we get is very mediocre AC cooling.
"They" insist the fill is good, all the pressures are good, the compressor is new.
If the car sits in the shade, the AC is good all day. If the car sits in the sun and broils the all-black interior, the AC can NEVER catch up again in city driving, and it will take 1/2 hour of freeway to cool the car---no matter how hard the fan blows.
One idea we have is to connect the cooling fan to the AC circuit, using a relay, so whenever the AC is on, the cooling fan is on.
I really feel this has something to do with the temperature of the refrigerant in the condenser.
- did you replace the dryer? this one is often overlooked and is super important at helping keep moisture outta the system
- when they evacuated, did it take them 10 min or 90 min? Longer is better.
- make sure it isn't underfilled OR overfilled with gas..either can return poor efficiency. If the shop has extra long lines I think can end up simulating an overfill.
- pick the bugs outta the condenser and straighten the fins
I take it you are using recirculate door closed right? Make sure something isn't blocking it from closing all the way.
I feel for ya..I could actually live with manual steering and brakes and no other options, if I can have nice cold A/C from June to Sept. We had a week in May last week that was A/C wx, but looks like we are going to pay for that dearly by the w/e..calling for 50. Just brought more firewood in today :sick:
Up until the late 1940's, that's how everyone lived. They considered themselves lucky to have a functioning heater in the winter, and an AM radio was pure luxury
We all get used to the nicer things in life far too quickly...
I once owned a 1967 Chrysler Newport that had previously been owned by a little old lady. It had manual brakes. If that petite little lady could slow that big beast down, anybody could. Actually, I think it was disc brakes that pretty much made power assists necessary.
And I guess manual steering would be okay, as long as we went back to the slower ratios they used to have. Manual steering on a nose-heavy FWD car with wide tires and 2.9 turns lock-to-lock would probably require a professional body builder to handle!
Although, when I was saving to start building my house, I drove an E model 4 cyl Pathfinder with no air or any other options either, except it did have power steering (an option tick if you can believe it, haha) for many years, and this, long after I had had air in many vehicles previous. People can do whatever they have to if they are goal oriented enough.
...but ya...we spoil easily..
The perk though if that were today?? No one would be holding onto the cell phone and drive that thing at the same time I tell ya..
Didn't you know that all the burnt out car salespeople become service advisors? Looks like the one you had sold you a bag of goods. $ 100 to diagnose a bad MAF?
If the condenser is not doing it's thing properly - condensing the gassified refrigerant back into a liquid, then I would agree with you. But the refrigeration really doesn't depend much on the actual temperature of the refrigerant. Most of the heat transfer takes place because of the phase change of the refrigerant from liquid to gas (in the evaporator) and back to liquid again in the condenser. This is described by the Carnot cycle.
You're not there yet? What is happening to the temperature of the air going through the evaporator? How does that temperature compare to the temperature under the ideal, shady conditions? That's where you are in diagnosis. You have to diagnose first.
If your temperature of air coming out of the evaporator at the central vent opening is within specification when the vehicle is moving along the road at 40 mph, then there are other factors causing the van to feel warm for a long period of time.
The engine coolant fans should be coming on anytime the AC is on and the vehicle is below a certain speed. Turning them on permanently with the AC switch would bypass their turning off after the car reachs and air speed high enough to support cooling the condenser.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And the R-134 stuff never seems to cool as well as the old R-12 freon.
The COLDEST A/C was any GM car built before around 1976 when they downsized the compressors. My 1965 Riviera would throw ice balls at you on the hottest days.
While removing the oil canister housing drain screw will not eliminate the chance of burning your hands, maybe it won’t even lessen that chance if you not careful, the main feature of that drain plug is to minimize the mess while removing the canister when it is full of oil. I know this is getting picky but I think that drain plug is a nice feature. I imagine that in your shop you have a LARGE drip pan but little ole me with the car up on ramps don’t have that luxury. So as I said the plug is good for me. If those that service the V8 Genesis (I don’t know what the V6 has but it’s probably the same) want to yank off the canister that is full of oil without using the drain plug on the housing I’m sure that won’t prevent them from getting the job done.
As far as the kid not using the appropriate tool, today I own 36 unique filter wrenches and I happen to know that your Hyundai takes one that is the only car that it fits and it took almost two years after your car hit production for the tool guys to carry it.
I’m beginning to wonder if you and I are talking about the same V8 Genesis oil filter canister arrangement. Because, as I said in a referenced post, the end of the canister has a 27mm hex, so you wouldn’t have to wait for a standard 27mm socket to hit the market, right?
The only thing I agree with you about is that from then on you should do your own services. I only wish that somehow you could get to experience having someone flip the tables on you, and then call you names for the trouble they cause.
You have a very defensive attitude about how you perceive outsiders viewing car mechanics. Just because those of us who aren’t in that business don’t work on cars all day long like you guys do, doesn’t mean we aren’t capable of doing some shade tree work. I know that there aren’t too many shade trees left anymore with the advent of extensive computer use in cars today but there are still some things that we can do. Oil changes being one of those.
When I said NITWIT when I was referring to the kid that did the first oil change on my Genny, I was talking about him and others that are just like him which I have seen all too often doing that work. I was NOT and I repeat I was NOT degrading your profession, just the ones that are inept. I don’t know why you feel you have to defend EVERY car mechanic because you and they share the same profession. There are some bad ones out there, honest.
Most of us non professional mechanics only have to defend ourselves from time to time not our professions too. Man, it’s gotta be awfully tough getting up in the morning knowing you have that double duty to look forward to all the time. I know I wouldn’t be good at that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Good luck with that... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The filter can was wedged against a frame rail and unless everything was lined up and all of the gaskets and o ring were perfectly installed, it would leak and it usually took three or four tries to get it right.
Then it got to the point where almost every car used a spin on filter. Chevy was last with their V-8's and we would try to sell our customers a conversion kit so it could use spin on's.
But, now caninsters are back on many cars! WHY? Are there any benefits?
There is most definitely a difference with the AC on a cold start then there is during the day.
I"m also fighting lots of glass area and a black interior, but STILL....
Hey 'roadburner', I owe you one for dragging me over into this forum. What is it with you? Misery loves company or what? :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The factory service manual should give the output temperature of the AC with varying ambient intake air temperatures. It may just be overwhelmed with glass area for solar energy and an interior with higher temperature from heat absorption when sitting. But that last should be lessened in effect by driving at speed.
If the output temp is at par then your problem is not the AC itself.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
This is another clue. Have they replaced the expansion valve? If it's faulty, it can allow the evaporator to ice. One easy way to see if this might be happening, is to see if it drips a lot more water after a shut down, than usual. If after a 30 min shut down and then on start up..after a few minutes of course..it blows fairly cold (use a thermometer, or better still a ClassII laser type) but then blows less cold in short order, this too would really point to an evaporator icing.
Isell...one of the very BEST A/C systems I have ever encountered, was my friends 86 Jetta Turbo diesel. It really had fridge-like capabilities. Maybe a one-off? It only had factory tint. The air outta the vents was super chilled...forget the figure...think it was literally under 40¼. The really impressive part too was, while it was even colder above 30 mph, it really did totally stay on top of things easily even sitting in stop and go on a 95+ day so this really speaks to overall design perfection.
The filter elements are easier to recycle, for one thing; when they are compacted the recycler is able to get more oil out of them. When the canister filters are mounted like they are in BMWs and Fiats(in the engine compartment) they are much easier to change then a spin-on filter: unscrew the plastic cap, let drain for a minute or so, remove old element, put new o-ring(s) on cap, drop in new element and screw on cap. Here's the cap being removed on an E83 X3:
Here's the screw-on cap and old element:
As you can see, this isn't like the old undercar canisters that required you to lie on your back and line up a metal canister, with a bolt, spring, and an o-ring. Those WERE a PITA(I know- the M30 and S38 BMW inline sixes used a similar setup).
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I just figured that you should have the opportunity to present your side of the story. Even though the engine failure was all your fault...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
As I said in in the SFTSFL topic, I've been driving my 1975 2002 the past few days. It lacks:
Power steering
Power door locks
Power seats
Power windows
Automatic temp control
The only modern touch I've added has been an Alpine AM/FM/CD player with SiriusXM and iPod compatibility- along with decent speakers. Honestly, if it had A/C I'd drive it year round. It easily keeps up with traffic and will cruise all day at 80 mph. Best of all, it lets me know I am driving a car- not piloting a video game...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
edit..ya know..you could retro some A/C in the 2002..of course it would dull the snap it has now..
edit 2 .. so maybe a complementary turbo to go with? :shades:
I can see that we have traveled the some road. I can’t tell you how many times removing a connector and reconnecting it has “fixed” the problem for me. When you do this with a connection that “appears” to be OK you are hoping that it works and sometimes it does.
One time on a ’95 Monte Carlo I knew right away that removing a relay from the under-hood fuse/relay box would fix the problem with an ABS light because there was a lot of white electrolysis powder all over the relay pins. I wiped off the heavy stuff and after a couple times of inserting/pulling the relay out, and wala, problem “fixed”. I’m glad it worked because if I had no idea of what to do, I would have been at the mercy of a shop to fix it. I’d like to think that they would have charged only for cleaning it like I did but if a shop wanted to make money they could easily say the relay was bad and had to be replaced.
Hey ‘doc’, I’m not saying you’d do this but even you have to agree that happens.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
edit 2 .. so maybe a complementary turbo to go with?
Retrofit kits used to be available(all 2002 A/C units were fitted by US dealers). It's a bit harder to find the pieces 38 years on. As for a turbo, it's easier and cheaper to install a M50 inline six or M42/44 four. Some guys have built an "M2"- a 2002 with an E30 M3 S14 motor. VERY sweet.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Rest over. If you want to exchange recipes or talk about who makes the best vacuum cleaner, then yeah, stick with the stories from the sales sidelines forum. If you want to talk about cars, why you should never change your own oil, and how to speak to a auto tech without offending them..
this is the place to be. :P
Yeah, and fortunately it's the same size as what my '57 DeSoto takes. I scored a bunch of them about 10-12 years ago, from an auto parts store that simply wanted them gone!
Y'know, now that I think of it, every V-8 Mopar I've ever owned was designed so that when you changed the filter, it would dump oil on the exhaust pipe.
I wonder if my Ram is designed that way, too? It's coming due for its first oil change soon. Just hit broke 3000 miles today, and it was actually 8 months ago today I bought the thing. The dealer said I should wait until the oil monitor light comes on, but call me old school...I just don't like leaving the original oil in for that long!
I've done that tons of times, especially with balky (home) computers. Relates to sleep engineering, although I sometimes credit my "magic fingers".
I was old school too by giving the XG350 15 oil changes in a 43K mile, 7 year life and look what that got me! Too many entries on my oil log sheet was the problem. If I had fewer entries, doing it by the book, I would have had fewer chances of making an entry error.
I’m walking talking proof that sometimes you can over do it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am glad to see you post the story in this discussion. I was going to post an invitation to come help with the correct information. I felt the story was mischaracterized before you came here. I don't see anything you did wrong. Your telling doesn't change and indicates to me you were treated unfairly by Hyundai.
It has hurt some sales for Hyundai. I couldn't even stop at their nearby store. My concern is that I look more favorably on Kia, part of the same company, for a couple of models while I'm carshopping. I am really lost on what to buy, and a Forte looks interesting to me.
Would I experience the same fate. They're the same company.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The reason I bring this up is because I thought about putting aside my strong preference for European iron and therefore I considered the Fiesta ST as a possible alternative to the 500 Abarth I've been looking at. The thing is, I just don't get a strong enthusiast vibe like I do at the Fiat dealer, not to mention my BMW and Mazda dealers. All three stores know that I take my cars to HPDEs and have no problem with it. As a matter of fact, the Fiat SM told me that he wants the Abarth to be seen at some gearhead venues. Which brings up the warranty issue. I've had no hassles from BMW or Mazda at all, and I don't expect any problems from Fiat(the dealer is part of the same group that owns my BMW dealer). And note that I don't expect the manufacturer to pick up the tab if I miss a shift or grab the wrong gear and blow the engine or similar. However, I'm a bit less confident about any of the local Ford dealers. As I noted in CCBA, I can hear the Ford SM saying something like: "The power window motor is dead? I'm sorry sir, but your warranty has been voided since you race the car." This isn't a slam at Ford so much as recognition of the fact that the vast majority of their customers are not enthusiasts, so it's something that they seldom-if ever-have to deal with.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive