Mazda Protegé

chicagopro

Okay, the challenge is on...

For the next week or so, I'll change flags every day to give you an idea of what a mutt I am.

Today's flag is brought to you by Soviet Georgia, home of my great-grandfather on my dad's side.

protegextwo

Mazda provided my family with a 4 day rental, while Trudy's 2000 PRO-ES had it's auto transmission replaced. My local co-branded Lancaster Toyota<>Mazda dealership only works with Interprise Car Rentals for loaner vehicles. The Rental Agent at Interprise told us Mazda North America required our loaner be either a Mazda or Ford make? We got a loaded 2002 Ford Escape XLT. Nice truck if you can live with/afford 15 mpg.

Respectfully,
love train

mazdafun

You're a riot.

dinu01

Ah, the great Republik of Georgia! Nothing drives like a Lada, except a Dacia (Romania's best-known "great" carmaker). We used to have Lada in Cnanda until a few yrs ago when they pulled out. They were selling under 1000 units/yr, no wonder. In Romania though, pre-1989, Ladas were considered good cars in comparison to Dacia. We also had Oltcit (Renault Axel 11R in France - we had that: really cool car) and ARO (4x4 vehicles), as well an the Dacia Lastun (lastun is the name of some type of bird), something that looked like a Ford Festiva/Fiesta (think ultra-mini).

To keep this on topic, they gave 323/Protege/familias in Romania with a gasoline and diesel engine. http://4car.co.uk said the Protege/323 is just some other Japanese import, nothing too fun. Of course Japanese cars sell very little over there.

Dinu

zoomzoom79

rbrooks: A Camaro SS or a Vette? I thought you said the loaner car should be one car level UP.

chikoo

>>>BJ's Wholesale Clubs Tire Service Center does give you a pro-rated 55,000-mile tread life warranty on the BF Goodies. Included in that $324.12 price is free life time tire rotations and free fixable tire repairs.<<<<

This is written on the back of the purchase reciept for ANY tire purchase.
So it is a special colloboration between BJ's and BFG/michelin/uniroyal. But will still check it out with the store manager.

maltb

I'll join in on the fun too.

seminole_kev

Yeah, Car magazine and Autocar magazine (UK magazines) have also echoed the same thing about the Protege (excuse me, 323).

chicagopro

um...okay, kiddo, we're waiting...

maltb

I think you have to post three times or something for it to take affect.

fxashun

Either Wingfoot or Eagle Hp's. I haven't skidded off the road and they last a long time. The Wingfeet have a cool blocky tread for coupes and the Eagle Hp's have that neat "aquatread" look to them. Best thing is that they are cheap and Kauffman in Atlanta have roadside, flat repair, and treadlife guarantee on them.

Of course the Lexus has Michelins though.

But they really are just tires.

nematode

I have a 2001 Protege ES 2.0 auto.

Minor problems:
1) Dash rattle from 5k-6k miles and then just decided to go quiet. I never did find it. No noises or rattles currently.
2) Curise will not work until the car is completely warm (when its below freezing). On warmer days it works anytime.

Major problems:
1) My wife keeps taking my car and I get stuck with her 2000 Subaru Outback Ltd. Not that its a bad car but its like driving an AWD Camry wagon (if such a beast existed). It would not be so bad but she only takes it on nice days.

Maintainance, costs, and economy:
Oil changes: 2k to synth, 7.5k synth, next one will be at 15k synth again. 7.5k interval changes from then on. Total cost so far $90 (2*$45 for oil). Currently has Mobil1 and is going to get Valvoline starting with the next change for no particular reason other than its closer. I still have not actually paid for an oil change as I won a bet and get 2 more free. From now on 2 per year. I also change the air filter when it gets dirty (about 10-15k) so thats another $20.

Other costs: Car wash once every few months at $6 with fuel. Probably 4 total in a year at most.

Economy: 28mpg over all. Range is 27mpg loow to 32mpg high. Nearly all highway 65-75mph. About $430 worth of 87 octane so far. Probably $530 for 1 year.

Predicted 1 year total cost (not including payments and insurance): $650-700.

bean3422

There may have been posts in the past concerning this, but I do not have time to browse through all 9,000 of them. My 2000 ES has 27,000 miles on it...all 4 tires are almost completely worn on the inside of the tire. The outside looks like new! They are also worn evenly on each tire. I had my car realigned at the dealer around 10,000 miles, but this seems odd. Should I take it back to the dealer, or just have an independent shop reallign the car? Also, should I just get new tires, or have someone swap them on the rims? I was almost thinking that I should not get them realligned, and swap the tires out to wear out the "good" side of the tire. It seems like that would be noisy though. Anyone else with this problem...did a "good" reallignment help? Thanks for any help.

mazdafun

Can't help you with the spouse issue. Maybe you'll become a 2-Pro household too? That should take care of it.

At least she appreciates the handling characteristics in your choice of vehicle.

protege_fan

http://www.canadiandriver.com/roadtest/02protege5.htm

chikoo

take it back to the dealer, get it realigned and ask for new tires....for messing up earlier...

I wore 35,000 on my tires and i have never seen such an even wear in my life.

dinu01

Now problem is I don;t have anything else besides the RO and CDN flag to chose from. It would be cool though for everyone to use the flags that represent the nations they or their parents were born.

BTW, another nice sunny day in T.O. today. That need for speed and high speed corners still hasn't gone away. D@mn Protege disease:)

Dinu

dinu01

No tire on a new car should wear unevenly. It looks like over-inflation if it wore-out in the middle. Unless you over-inflated your tires, that should not happen. An allignment issue is when you have the thread pattern wear in weird patterns. What you're describing is more of an over-inflation problem, rite MaltB?

Dinu

protege_fan

I wish....-20 C today...lightly blowing snow.

nematode

It may happen but Mazda has to compete with:
1) Itself. I'm more likely to get an RX8 or MPS Wagon (if that happens) than another "regular" Protege. The Protege I got was going to be be strictly a commuter but I find that I like it quite a bit more than I though I would. I thought I would find it anemic with the auto but the engine really pulls pretty hard between 2k and 5k (for a 2L) where I like it.

2) The Subaru WRX Prodrive (STi) and DSM Lancer Evo. I think the WRX is ugly and the Lancer is pretty boy racer looking but its going to be pretty hard not to buy when 250hp and AWD are calling your name for $28k.

While those are interesting, all my pennies are currently going toward my Audi S6 Avant. Unless my wife decides she wants kids in five years its mine. On the other hand if Mazda could do something with the "6" wagon or Subaru could make their GT wagon an real sport wagon......I'll be happy to change my mind.

dsm6

Finally got a good look under the hood of my 02 pro. I spent some time looking for plug wires. I didn't find any, but taking a closer look, I realized that this engine uses a coil-over-plug system, so there aren't any plug wires to be found. Duh.

Then I realized, looking at the Mazda "seagull" logo, that it's really an M inscribed in an oval. Brilliant.

Maybe I should have stayed in bed today.

On the plus side, after putting about 850 miles on the new Pro in a week, I'm either getting used to it, or it is getting more peppy and runs more smoothly. Did some canyon carving yesterday - wow ... alot of fun.

fxashun

to go next to the LS400. Cheap luxury. And ZoomZoom has her heart set on a 6 speed CL-S after we wear some depreciation off the Pro. And of course a Civic for everyday. I'll forgo the Civic for a nice first gen Legend Coupe or maybe another FX16 GT-S but talk about rare.

chicagopro

Well, we can't all be rocket scientists like me!

maltb

Inside tire wear is almost always a Toe-In alignment problem. Get it back to whoever aligned it and tell them to do it right. If it was the dealer, they may cover ruined tires as well.

dinu01

I thought there might be something besides overinflation. Toe-in allignment, of course (actually I have no clue what you're talking about). Can you explain "toe-in vs toe-out"? I hear these terms, but I have no clue what they actually mean.

Dinu

maltb

This is how you want the front wheels: | |
This is what Toe-in looks like: / \
This is what Toe-out looks like: \ /

Front wheels should be slightly toed-in. Too much and the tires work too hard against each other resulting in improper tire wear.

dinu01

But wouldn't that wear more of this side of the tire, than just the centre?

Your tire> [xx ] The xx represents the worn-out part for toe-in, right side tires. I understand your explanation (thanx!), but a worn-out tire in the middle suggests overinflation. A worn-out right side tire (for example) would have the left side of the tire worn, while the right side of the right side (passenger side) tire would be LESS worn out. Is that right/more correct?

Dinu

browntrout1

...sounds like too much negative camber possibly. My rear tires are worn on the inside and you can tell there is a slight negative camber to the wheels. I'm really bad for rotating my tires so that's probably why the fronts are not as bad. I haven't had a wheel alignment done since I purchased the car.

The tires have been in this arangement probably for the last 12000-15000KM. Don't really care at the moment. Plan on replacing them in the summer or next year (will get winter tires for the comming winter).

chicagopro

Gosh, I really hope the Edmunds Membership Agreement contains something in there about not making fun of people's ethnicity, because given my track record, I have a feeling I'm about to turn into a great big target:)

Today's flag is brought to you by Poland, home of my great-grandmother on my dad's side.

mdaffron

There's a link to the Membership Agreement on the left-hand side of this page.

I'm really surprised at you ... as a frequent Town Hall poster, you should have the Membership Agreement memorized. Shame on you.

I know it by heart -- but only because I violate it so often. I've learned it in pieces -- violate one part one day, violate another part the next day ... Pat has been my mentor. In fact, I just violated a new part yesterday. I'm so bad.

Meade

newcar31

I've noticed the slight negative camber on my back wheels too. I know a little negative camber helps handling, but I didn't think it would be so much as to actually detect by sight. Is this much negative camber (so much that you can see it) normal for Proteges? I don't have any un-even wear, but I only have 15,000 miles, I rotate the tires every 5K, and I use snow tires in the winter. I will definately keep an eye on them now.

bean3422

I checked them out again this morning...the amazing thing is the Potenza Re92s have 5 tread blocks on each tire (I think?). As you look from the outside tread block going towards the inside tread block, all four outside tread blocks are evenly worn (maybe 2 cm deep). The innermost tread block has nothing left. Somehow the tread block right next to it has hardly any wear at all. I have only rotated my tires about every 10,000 miles, but I check the pressure religiously, and keep it between 30-35 depending on the temperature outside. Besides, all four tires are worn exactly the same, with the inner tread block being the only one completely worn out. I would not think that rotating them with less miles would have made a difference. Thanks to the person that suggested I take it back. Since it was the dealer who re-aligned my P, I will definitely be taking it back. The worst that can happen is nothing! And I might save some tire money.

newcar31

I think Mazda builds negative camber into the suspension. It's normal, but it also wears the inside of the tires out sooner. Rotating will help a little, but not much because the tires are directional and must be rotated front to back. If you want to completely avoid un-even wear, you must dis-mount your tires every time you rotate them so you can rotate side to side.

With that said, I think my car has a little extreme negative camber in the rear. You shouldn't be able to detect it by sight. My Mazda dealer doesn't even have an alignment rack so I took it to an independent Goodyear to have it aligned. They couldn't do it because they didn't have the specs for the 2001s and they thought they might be different from the 99-00s. I still have to check into it some more.

chicagopro

Thanks for the helpful diagram (not that your little slashes weren't cute, malt). I had a feeling that camber and toe-in were two different things, but wasn't sure.

chikoo

a little -ve camber is useful.
and I rotated my tires only twice in the 35,000 miles that I owned them and yet they wore evenly.

as regards the rear wheels, even I noticed them and was worried but then i saw a bimmer and it had even more..and i relaxed....

mazdafun

...if you're into taking curves fast.:) Keeps you from "rolling" your sidewall until you really push it and keeps more of your tread on the road. Normally, your tire will slip before you do that though.

BTW chikoo, nice diagrams.

newcar31

I know it helps out the handling a lot, but I thought mine was a little extreme. Now that you mention it, I have noticed many cars that seem to have a lot of negative camber built in. BMWs and 300ZXs come to mind.

dinu01

(Again, not that Malt's slashes weren't useful.

Dinu

maltb

lol...chikoo takes his web surfing seriously.

Todd, are the tires on your Pro directional? I'm pretty surprised at that.

bpi

"Rotating will help a little, but not much because the tires are directional and must be rotated front to back. If you want to completely avoid un-even wear, you must dis-mount your tires every time you rotate them so you can rotate side to side."
Even if the tires are not directional, rotating them from side to side (not one of the X-patterns) would do the least (possibly zilch if the alignment is correct) in evening out tire wear than from front to back. The outside of each tire is still the outside of tire no matter where you install it unless you remount the tire.

newcar31

"The outside of each tire is still the outside of tire no matter where you install it unless you remount the tire."

Isn't that what I said in the post? In order to even out tire wear on directional tires, you must re-mount and balance all 4 tires and rotate in an X pattern. Rotating side to side will also help if you remount the tires. When you remount and rotate the tires side to side it will even out the inside wear of the tires.

bpi

My mistake for assuming "side to side" to be different from an X-pattern and for assuming that you suggested if the tires were not directional, simply rotating them side to side (not an X-pattern) without remounting would help.

newcar31

All I'm trying to say is that if the tires are directional, you need to remount them in order to correct a negative camber un-even wear pattern on the inside of the tires.

You can still rotate side to side, but you wouldn't be compensating for the extra wear on the front tires. I should have been more clear about side to side and X pattern, but for the purpose of my original post, it is irrelevant.

dsm6

IIRC, the stock tires on my 02 Pro ES - Dunlp SP Sport 5000s - are uni-directional tires. I guess I better take a closer look before rotation time.

bpi

Then you can't do an X-pattern even if you want to.

newcar31

You CAN rotate in an X pattern if you remount the tires.

Kirstie_H

Just a reminder that the Town Hall chat is on for Wednesday evening (5-7pm Pacific/8-10 pm Eastern). Hope you can join in this week to meet and greet with your fellow Town Hall users and have a little fun with The Return of Car Trivia!

Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

bpi

dsm6 edited his post. His original post was that the Dunlp SP Sport 5000 was both uni-directional AND assymetrical. I have no idea if it is or not. Was your response based on his edited post?

newcar31

It was based on his edited post

vocus

I remember a couple times, when I had my 2001 ES, losing traction at highway speeds. I think I had hit one of those reflectors between lanes, not sure. Anyway, my right tire started spinning at like 50mph. It scared the hell out of me. BTW, I had the Sport 5000s (or whatever they're called) that come on the car from the factory.