By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
ABS, one time for sure I think it saved me, 5 times it put me into the middle of a snowy intersection. I tend to try and save the money on it if I can, but my P5 has it now since that was the one the dealer could get at the time. My preferance though is no ABS.
And just a note about car cooking, don't let the cheese from your pizza drip onto the fan, man it gets everywhere!
While I agree completely with that, it's funny what people do in practice. I've talked to women who drive those huge Ford Excursions and other such vehicles. Often their reasoning is that it's so big and safe. But then you see them pulling out of parking lots right in front of speeding 18 wheelers. Side airbags, ABS, the whole deal won't help you there!
If you just watch people, the cars they drive and how they drive them it's really quite interesting. MiniVan's full of kids seem to always be the ones turning right on red directly in front of me, usually wihout ever stopping at the read light. I'm sure that parent has researched the car seats and the car, baby proofed the house, researched the day care center for safety, but then drives like a maniac.
All the safety features in the world don't make up for bad driving. Unless of course you have a car like in Judge Dredd (I think) where the whole cabin fills with foam in an accident and creates a little safety cocoon for the passenger.
Anyway, sounds like she took very good care of it, and it's the miles (and the type of miles), not the age for most parts (check the parts that do deteriorate, like rubber hoses and boots etc.), which is good, given the low mileage. However, check highway performance and get the engine a tune-up as it may not have reached sufficient temperatures to avoid carbon deposits forming inside the combustion chambers.
Anyway, good price for a reliable and roomy (for a compact) car that sounds like it's in excellent condition.
Andy?:
1. Change your flag to have the Canadian one flying. It's in your profile.
2. 37.000kms since 93? While this is amazing, make sure parts are not falling down from lack of driving. Seriously. For $6.000 you can get a 95-96 Pro w/100.000kms, so I would personally take the 93 one.
3. Again, make sure the car's not falling apart from lack of driving. Maintenance every 6 mths is great, but that car needs to go on the highway too, otherwise things (bad ones) build in the engine, cooling systems, etc.
I would buy it ASAP, change its fluids and take it on a nice highway ride to Toronto so you can show it to me
Dinu
maltb: "it kept me from sliding into a curb"
Paul: "stop before I hit the truck"
Anddu: "ABS are no help at all"
Kyle: "The ABS was crap [on 4WD]... It saved me from few accident [on 2WD]..."
Ted: "It did save a dog that ran out in front of me once".
From what I read, only maltb used the steering capability of the ABS to avoid an accident. Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the rest of you, it seems that you just hits the break, and think that ABS shorter the braking distance, and save you from an accident.
Bruno
ok, so at 3:30 pm a mobile inspection guy is going to check it all out...I know a car not driven alot can have probs all its own!
Ill let you guys know what the Man says tonight!
BTW
This ladies so anal about her pro that i had to convince 5 min. to let ME drive on the test run!
At least i know she took care....
With respect to the truck owner's ABS experiences - what kind of truck and what year? It was quite common in the early ABS days for trucks to get rear ABS only. For obvious reasons, this doesn't work as well as 4 wheel ABS.
The best statement I have read till date.
'cause that is what even my goodself tells everybody he knows.
For example, my friend offered me his Acura3.2TL, to try out on some winding mountain roads. I said SORRY. I would love to drive the Acura, but do not know your car well enough. I might very well end up in a ditch.
Brakes: I don't have ABS. But it sure sounds good.
But again ABS will NEVER shorten your braking distance, all by itself.
It will however avoid lockups and resulting skids from the lockup.
My method of braking:
====================
Step(or Stomp) on the brake and then start releasing the brake gently. This will avoid the lockup that most of you will experience. If needed, you might press the brake more and then gently release them again. in short learn to modulate your brakes. Don't just hit them like an Idiot and expect them to bring you home safe and sound.
Better Still: Watch where you are driving. You might be drving safely. But is the guy in front of you or behind you driving as safely? Maintain sufficient distance between cars depending upon how much distance YOUR CAR needs to stop.
Hope that helps anybody who is till new to driving and especially to the art of braking.
100% Agree!
Another great way to learn how to modulate the braking on manual car is ... heel-and-toe shifting technique. No kidding.
Bruno
A good defensive driving class at a local performance driving school is money well spent.
agreed. that is if you have no role model to follow.
In my case, even before i sat in the drivers seat I had 12 years to observe our Driver, my Dad, my 2 elder brothers. Watch how they drive, the mistakes they made and had them engraved it in my instincts not to make those mistakes.
Really Helped.
So how come when I watch MotorTrend TV or read in the mags or whatever, they say things like "Car X didn't have ABS so the stopping distance could have improved".
I think ABS CAN shorten stopping distances on dry pavement. Rather than sliding on locked tires, w/ ABS the tires can grip many times/second.
I`ve used him before, excellent idea and service!
I also harsh on bad behaviors of other drivers while we're out. She actually comments on other drivers too. Great kid.
Anyway, the way I brake is to step hard (but not stomp fully) and modulate until I feel slipping.
BTW, ABS did not keep my wife from sliding out of a snow-covered turn and then hitting a bollard next to a fire hydrant (she was going really slowly, but it was really slippery, I guess). I guess ABS won't help against lateral slides.
What if my wheels NEVER lockup without ABS on dry pavement?
Will ABS still shorten the braking distance?
I don't think so.
Will ABS still shorten the braking distance?
I don't think so. <<
I think so. It really depends upon how good you are at getting as close as possible to lock-up without actually locking-up relative to how good a current gen ABS system is at doing this. You may think you're that good, but I'm guessing that in reality just about everyone out there short of a top notch pro racer isn't that good, especially on public roads (which tend to have highly variable traction requiring rapid brake modulation).
Let me put it this way - car mags like MotorTrend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, employ some darn good drivers to test braking distances. They consistently get shorter distances on dry pavement for ABS equipped cars than for non-ABS equipped cars of the same model inspite of their best efforts at threshold braking.
Think about it. What's the reaction of most people when something comes out in front of them? They SLAM on the brakes. I know I do. I wanna stop as quick as possible. I don't really think about pumping/unlocking the brakes until the car starts to skid. By then, it's about too late to do anything about it. ABS does the thinking and work for you.
Will ABS still shorten the braking distance?
With EBD, yes!
ABS with some form of EBD can modulate each wheel individually; you can't. With EBD, the system brings each wheel to the threshold individually. This is very effective on surfaces with varying traction: roadways that may have more oils on them than a test track.
ABS by itself(i have read the theory) will not reduce stopping distances. With EBD, Yes.
So just any plainjane ABS is BS for an experienced driver.
ABS with EBD = Asset for anybody.
practice and practice.
I practice even now, after 15 years of driving.
On I-95, if nobody is following me for about 2-3 miles(basically empty), I do practice runs of stopping at high speeds.
do you think that Rally drivers just get out of bed and Rally? No. They practice.
I again use the magazine tests as evidence. The shorter test distances for ABS vs. non-ABS pre-date EBD.
Read this report from our friends at NHTSA for details:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/capubs/NHTSAabsT4FinalRpt.pdf
Allow me to summarize with a quote from their conclusions. BTW, none of the test vehicles had EBD.:
"The results of this study indicate that for most stopping maneuvers, made on most test surfaces, ABS-assisted panic stops were shorter than those made with best effort or full pedal applications with the ABS disabled. Although it was not specifically quantified in this study, the absence of excessive yaw while braking enhanced the ease at which the driver could maintain lane position, especially when compared to stops made with panic brake applications and the ABS disabled on split-mu and low coefficient surfaces."
Best effort applications refers to threshold braking. The second sentence re-iterates what others have said about ABS helping to maintain stability, especially in low traction and mixed-traction situations, and especially while turning. They noted that for deformable surfaces, such as gravel, stopping distances did increase for some of the vehicles with ABS panic stops vs. non-ABS panic stops, but ABS enhanced stability as noted above.
---
One issue is the fact that many people (as many as 47% in one study) don't apply enough force to the brakes to lock them up, thus ABS doesn't have a chance to do its thing. In such a case, even though the wheels don't lock, optimal braking is not achieved, thus braking distances are longer than if the driver had applied full force to the brakes thus necessitating intervention from the ABS. Thus the advent of sytems that, when a panic stop situation is detected, apply maximum brake force for the driver even if the driver doesn't him or herself.
Any information would be helpful.
go to www.mazdausa.com and check out the specs and equipment differences between the ES and LX. They both have the 2.0L engine for the 2002 model year.
good luck with your car search!
Reliability - I don't recall exactly how it stacks up against civic or corolla, but I do recall that it does have above average reliability.
ES vs. LX - differences include, but are not necessarily limited to
- different gauges (white on ES, grey on LX)
- different front grill (black on ES, black with chrome strip on LX)
- different wheels (16" alloys on ES, 15" steels on LX, though I think you can get the 16's as an option?)
- black only interior on ES
- rear discs on ES, rear drums on LX (how archaic on the LX's part ;-) )
- ES comes with spoiler as standard equip
- it has been speculated that the ES has thicker sway bars, but Mazda literature doesn't mention anything about this
- sport shift auto only available on ES
Check www.mazdausa.com, the protege specs page, for more details.
But this is where my gripe is.
If I don't apply sufficient force to lock up, that automatically means that I can steer safely and get out of the way, without ABS.
This is what I end up doing.
That's one of many reasons why I don't like ABS. In most of the road hazard circumstances, one could either go around the obstacle without even slowing down. However, if there is no way to get around an obstacle, then I would like to brake as short as I could. A learn to feel, control, and drive smoothly the car with my feet. On the ABS system, one have to stump on it brutally with all forces, and your feet get all kind of feedback from the brake pedal like vibration and sudden depression. There is no way one can guess sensibly the reaction of the car when the electronic takes over. Oh BTW, the electronic might be quick, but the hydraulic system isn't. That is why many burst of sudden depression is needed to simulate a smooth braking of an experienced driver.
BTW, ABS doesn't modify the point at which lock-up will occur.
Don't get me wrong. If you are really that good at riding the threshold of lock-up, then I bet you can beat ABS. Very few people are that good.
That also means you will NOT stop as fast as your car is capable of. Unless you hit the threshold, you'll never know where it is.
So let's me see: there are essentially two bad category drivers:
1) those who have ABS and do not apply strong enough forces to achieve the minimum distance.
2) those who don't have ABS and alway stump hard in panic stop and lock the wheels.
Just swap their cars and problem is solved! ;-)
Bruno
Now if you noticed that I mentioned previously that I always maintain a safe distance based upon my ability to safely brake my car.
Keep in mind that 4wd with traction control are "supposed" to run in icy&snowy conditions, but then they are the one that u find in the ditches while you drive by.
What I am trying to say is having the so-called "technological" factor on ur side make u drive rashly more often than not. take our dear vocus who is always doing so(isn't that right vocus?)
I am not one of those.
I will go for the ABS+Brake assist+EBD when it is nice and perfected and affordable.
Tell me this. If ABS was so great why is it not a mandatory standard? 'cause it was not so great.
Instead we see airbags and power windows & door locks getting standard.
Why not ABS+EBD+Brake Assist?
Isn't safety paramount?
The auto industry likes to establish [non-permissible content removed] concepts as standards. Why not the ABS?
Always made me wonder...... and wary too!!!
Bruno
Its similar to the problem with ABS. Folks dont always implement it in the "best" way.
Only problems seem to be after 9 years and 27K kilometers are as follows:
1)Tires are original from ~93 with 50% tread remaing, but should be changed due to age
2)Shocks and Struts soft, all original as well. Might have to deal with it within a year or two.
3)Needs new Wipers (:-)
4)Power steering slightly loose
5)Needs new thermostat
6) Original timing belt needs changing, due to age.
7) Recommends tune up and changing of fluids and plugs, but wires all ok..
8) A/C noisy but cools to 40f...works well!
9) Last but not least....Paint is perfect, same 100? millimeter thickness as day it left factory!
Rustproofing seems to work!!!
I bought it for 5700 cdn $....end of story!!
ty for input,
And wish me luck!
As far as availability of ABS on Protege's, it's pretty hard to find. I looked all over Northern California and saw two LX's with it. I didn't get it because it was always bundled with the sunroof (I'm too tall for that!). Oh yeah, just put a set of Borbet alloys on it - very nice!
I got to try out my ES's abs the other day. A big ford truck pulling a really long trailer ran a stop sign and came out onto the road I was driving on. I was doing about 65mph and slammed the brakes as hard as I could. I felt the abs going and heard the tires squeal a bit. I thought the car stopped extremely well.
To solve this debate I say everybody goes to an empty parking lot with their pro and marks a spot. Then drive at 40mph and when they hit that spot try to stop as fast as they can. Then measure it and post the results. We can also compare the results of rear disc vs. drum brakes.
Congrats on the PROs andyss6 and jeffy729!
ABS: Great discussion guys. Question for all: when should brakes be changed? I have 42.500kms since July 2001 on my PRO. Should I get them changed? How long do they last?
Can't remember the name, but someone asked if they should buy a PRO? ALL of us are convinced that you should 100%. Same reliability as a Civic and Corolla, more fun to drive and for less money. Only catch: Insurance might cost $20/mth more. But it's worth it.
Dinu
Bruno