Mazda Protegé

newcar31

Lol!

theparallax

to that list. Well, maybe. If I do go, it will be from Panama City, FL, about 14 hours. ROAD TRIP!!!

chikoo

i just got 205 miles per 10 gallons on my '99 ES, for 60/40 highway/city driving.

I think I am drving a SUV for the price of an economy sedan.

dinu01

I don't know how many litres are in a gallon, but it sure sounds bad.

It sounds like you're getting the mileage of a midsize. I'd check the #s and drive by Mazda see what they think about this one.

Dinu

fowler3

2 Liters = 2 quarts 3.6 ounces, multiply by 5 and you are close to 10 gallons, a little over. There are 4 quarts in a US gallon.

That 205 miles is LOW. Are you sure somebody isn't stealing gas out of your car at night?

Hope this helps.

fowler3

vocus

That means you got 20.5 MPG for that tank. So did you do alot of city driving or something? Also, using the AC alot uses gas quickly as well. You have to factor in those things before you go running off to the dealer.

You might also wanna start keeping a log of fuel mileage for your car, so you have something to show the dealer when you do take the car there.

I remember getting mileage that low on my 2001 ES once, but it was because of a large passenger load, heavy use of AC, a hot climate, and lots of pedal. Mileage never got that low again on me though.

mazdafun

According the the MAF recall notice I got for my 99LX, low fuel economy can be a symptom of a failing MAF/MAS unit. 99 and 00 models are affected. Other symptoms may be loss of power, stalling, difficulty starting.

You might want to check this out.

boggse

I purchased at 36" TV over the weekend. Obviously, the TV would not have fit in the back of the Protege. At over 300 lbs., I wouldn't have wanted to deal with it anyway. But, the stand did fit (barely) with the seats folded down. Normally, I would not have taken the Protege to shop for a large item, but the AC is broken on my Cherokee, so I really had no choice. Luckily, the little car got the job done. I was very pleased.

dinu01

So for the TV (since you only took the stand), if you don't want it, I have a nice home for it

Dinu

boggse

Will be delivered by truck later this week. It wouldn't have fit in my Cherokee boxed up anyway. Luckily, they had free delivery. Hopefully, the AC in the Jeep will get fixed tomorrow.

townhall9

I rotated my tires (if you want something done right...), yesterday, for the first time (4800 miles). I got my best look yet at the elegant rear suspension. My corner confidence/smile just got a little bigger.

mdaffron

It's been in the upper 90s for about a month now, and I've been using the a/c in my 2000 ES like it's going out of style ... plus I'm driving a fair mix (about 50/50) of city and highway driving.

I'm still averaging about 29 mpg with that mix. 2000 Protege ES 5-speed (which according to EPA gets lower gas mileage -- believe it or not -- than the automatic), with 41,700 miles on the odo.

Meade

mdaffron

15 Proteges
8 Protege5s
5 MP3s
1 Sport20

Sign up!

Meade

vocus

What AC usage comment would that be? The one on the P5 board? I don't remember posting one here...

mdaffron

vocus Aug 24, 2002 8:32pm

Meade

snagy1

vocus

I am so glad you were able to check the mileage of that particular tank of gas in my car, to verify I was telling the truth. Why would I lie about something as trite as that anyway? Anyway, the Protege automatic is almost flat dead with the AC on and more than one passenger, in my experience.

snagy1

the think the correct comment would have been that the A/C will probably cost between 1 to 3 mpg, so if normal is 30 mileage per gallon, he could expect to get maybe about 27 or 28 mpg. But getting 20 or 21 mpg, i would be looking at things besides A/c, like dirty fuel filter, cinder block inadvertently left on the gas panel, etc., etc.

dinu01

"Anyway, the Protege automatic is almost flat dead with the AC on and more than one passenger, in my experience"

Really? Dead so it can't drive in traffic or go 85mph on the highway? B/c I just did that last week when we went to the beach. And got good mileage too.

Dinu
2001 ES w/auto and A/C on (only when it's REALLY hot)

vocus

Let's just say you can shoot it through rush hour traffic alot quicker with just one person aboard and no AC on. When flooring the car with the AC on and one passenger, the wheeld don't even spin, although they try to when only the driver is aboard.

dinu01

you don't keep your cars for too long.

"When flooring the car with the AC on and one passenger, the wheeld don't even spin, although they try to when only the driver is aboard."

Are you driving that Jetta that hard?

Dinu

godeacs

My son is looking at the 2002 Proteges but wants ABS since he's had that on his previous cars. Have not found 1 Protege with ABS at the 4 dealers here in town. Is it really necessary? Just how good is the non-ABS braking system on the Protege? Would assume pretty darn good....

Any input is appreciated.....

bluong1

IMHO, ABS or not-ABS is more a question of personal preference than harward performance. The non-ABS break of my P5 (identical to that of the Protege ES) is powerful. I personally prefer car that way, but I'm rather an experience driver (15 years of driving) and know how cars would react under blocking. If your son has ABS in his previous car, I wouldn't venture to buy one without.

Bruno

dinu01

it's a question of preference. I never had a car w/ABS and I'm 21. The PRO I got lastyear doesn't. As long as you have 4 (4 NOT 2) good snow tires, no ABS is needed. That, plus it's worse on dry pavement.

Mybrakes are still ok now at 42.200kms in 13 months, and the car has held up very well. No problems, no rattles.

Good luck with your purchase!

Dinu

alternator

made be found at this web site:

http://www.mazda6.co.uk/

chikoo recommended this site on the Mazda6 discussion page for the images therein, but there are also interviews with Mazda developers and engineers that should not be missed by anyone interested enough to be on this board (IMO). These Mazda team leaders clearly state their use of Audi and BMW as benchmarks, and in some detail explain why. Totally absorbing stuff!

And, there is a downloadable 6-page brochure on the Mazda6, and downloadable "complete specifications".

protege_fan

I'm a big advocate of ABS. Why not give yourself that extra edge? Anyway, before this turns into a flame-war, I'm just saying I prefer ABS.

chicagopro

But Mike, I wanted to see you get your butt kicked!

Okay, I'll let you off the hook just for today :P

Not sure what the climate is like in your part of Texas, Don--maybe ABS isn't as crucial.

But as Bruno said, if your son is used to it, maybe it's worth looking around a little more.

Besides, if it were my kid, and I DIDN'T get the ABS, I would always have that nagging feeling...but that's just me.

Good luck!

--Dale

godeacs

for your input. You all make valid pts. Don't get much rain here (San Antonio)- OK, we had a massive flood last month...lol

ABS seems to be the way to go - just that it cuts down on what's still available ....

the_big_h

I know I know, this should be in the Events section, but some people only looks at THIS board, so I figure I should share the news here.

here's the new car lineup breakdown:

7 first gen.
1 2nd gen.
23 3rd gen., which include:
SEVEN MP3s
8 Protege5s
ONE Sport20

I'm speechless..... in a good way... :-D

mazdafun

If the 2003 models come in while you're looking for your son's car, the ABS&side air bags option no longer requires the moonroof. However, the moonroof option is now tied to the 6-CD changer.

I prefer it that way anyhow since I can't fit in the Protege/P5 that has a moonroof. I need that extra inch.

BTW, my wife is now leaning towards a P5 for her next car. I've finally worn her down. (And the upcoming 6 being a little too big for her tastes).

Of course, she probably won't let me drive it.

vocus

The brakes are pretty good on the Proteges, even without ABS. Very hard to lock up, in my experience. It's still a very nice feature to have, for the occasional idiot who cuts you off, etc. I would recommend looking for it. It may be hard to find, but if it comes in handy once, it will more than likely pay for itself.

vocus

I don't have to floor the pedal with the AC on in the Jetta I have now. It's the turbo. It has power to spare. Also, its ASR keeps my wheels from spinning no matter how hard I hit the pedal.

Also, the reason I said about the wheels spinning was to reflect the lack of power. That's true in alot of economy cars though, so it's normal for the Pro.

mazdafun

Put those Bridgestone Potenza RE-92s or Firestone FR-680s back on and drive on wet roads.

Wheel spin doesn't help you accelerate faster anyway (well, not by much).

mdaffron

It seems you're heading in your usual direction again. Since you don't own a Protege, and nothing but trouble is stirring in response to your comments here, I respectfully request that since you can't post anything helpful here, please go back to the discussion on your car.

Thanks.

Meade

dsm6

Actually, unless you know how to threshold brake really well, ABS is better, not worse, on dry pavement. This is because the coefficient of static friction between tire and dry road can and will be higher than the coefficient of kinetic friction for a tire sliding on the same dry road. It's like sliding a heavy object across the floor. You have to push extra hard to get it sliding, but once it starts to slide, it doesn't require as much force to keep it going. ABS helps keep you near the limit of maximum static friction.

As an example, find published stopping distances for a Pro ES with ABS and an MP3 Pro (didn't have an ABS option).

It has been argued, though, that an excellent driver can keep the tires even closer to that limit than a typical ABS system. We're talking about professional race car drivers, not folks like us. Besides, your typical race track is Autobahn smooth compared to the type of traction variability you see on your average American road.

Where ABS can increase stopping distances is on loose surfaces like snow, where snow can pile up in front of a locked wheel in a snow plow effect thus shortening stopping distances - maybe.

This is, of course, assuming you have one of the later generation ABS systems such as the one currently on the Pro.

mdaffron

First, cars are usually tested and given stopping-distance measurements by trained technicians who know every nuance of the system they're using. I don't think those stopping distances ever reflect the "real-world" results with a teenager or mom (sorry) rather than the trained driver who's performing the test.

Second, I've owned two cars with ABS. In both, I had situations where I had to panic stop. Whereas on a test track, you know when you're going to panic stop and can think about and prepare for how you're going to do it, you don't have that opportunity when the garbage truck lumbers across your path after running a red light as it happened once with me. My common panicked maneuver of thoughtlessly stomping the pedal, as all of us have done, resulted in wheel hop and a violently pulsating brake pedal which I doubt a smaller person (I weigh 276 pounds) could've maintained pressure on.

I decided after that incident that my next cars wouldn't have ABS if I could do anything about it.

Oh -- third reason. Lose the main ABS pump on a Protege and you're out approximately $2,000. Call your parts department if you don't believe me. We had the ABS argument a few months ago and I called and got prices.

No thanks!

Meade

maltb

I agree at the risk of keeping the war alive.

Old ABS systems may have cost you a couple feet when compared to a highly skilled driver. Now with EBD (brake force distribution) on a 3 or 4 channel ABS, you really are better off with ABS. Correct me if I am wrong, but I know of no manual braking system that lets the driver modulate each wheel (not to mention that it would be a PITA).

maltb

I don't think those stopping distances ever reflect the "real-world" results with a teenager or mom (sorry) rather than the trained driver who's performing the test.

An untrained driver (I'm sure that's what you meant) is more likely to stand on the brakes than pump them. In your case, it was a matter of you not taking the time to get used to your vehicle's brake system as is so common and you had previous experience and training (maybe informal) in a non-ABS vehicle.

I know I've said this many times before on here: EVERYONE should go find an open paved lot and practice panic stops no matter what braking system you have.

dsm6

Actually, to be honest, Meade's example sounds like a reason to like, not dis-like, ABS. In a panic stop, the typical driver just stomps away. Brakes these days are more capable then ever of locking up those wheels, so just stomping away will lock 'em up making stopping distances longer and the car less controllable. Once you get used to how the system behaves, you don't have to worry about those panic stops, and you don't have to try the difficult task of threshold braking during a panic stop to avoid locking up.

So, I'd turn that one around and say - yes, you don't know when you'll need to make a panic stop and the situation won't be a controlled one and we're not all expert drivers practiced in the art of threshold braking - we're stompers. Therefore, ABS is a good thing to have.

As for the cost of repair - that's something to consider. A relevant question here, though, is: how often do ABS systems fail? - and I don't really care to hear anecdotal evidence on this. Anybody have stats?

Here's another question: when ABS units fail, do they typically need to be swapped out entirely, or can they typically be fixed in a less costly manner?

protege_fan

If you're talking about having to replace the ABS unit if it goes bad, what's the real point? What if your engine fails? What if your A/C unit fails? What if your windows regulators fail? If..and if...and if...

Gimme a break. Why bother getting a car at all then if you're worried about having to have something replaced or fixed.

townhall9

Have you tryed to purchas "on line". Try http://www.carbuyingtips.com/. Among other things, it has a good list of the "on line" car buying sites.

mdaffron

Variety is what makes the world go 'round, right my fellow Communists?

BTW, not enough experience, maltb? I'd had the truck for four years and about 90,000 miles when that occurred. Oh well.

Meade

newcar31

I chose not to get ABS because of the initial cost and the cost to replace and maintain it. My Integra had ABS that I never used and the rotors were more expensive because of it. Bleeding the brakes is also different with ABS. I didn't get a sunroof or side airbags either. I like to keep it simple.

protege_fan

I didn't want power windows for a similar reason. They bite in the winter and I didn't want to have crappy old motors as my car got older.

newcar31

power windows. I've had a bunch of cars with them and never had a problem. Then again, I've never owned a VW.

protege_fan

There are times that I'd like to have them, but they're not an absolute must-have for me.

Strange that on the '01's power windows were standard on the LX in the US, but not available on the Canadian LX.

maltb

I'd had the truck for four years and about 90,000 miles when that occurred.

Based on what YOU said, you did the wrong thing so I could only conclude that you didn't have enough experience with your braking system. I'm not trying to knock you Meade, but the argument against ABS just gets weaker and weaker as the systems get better. I used to be very skeptical about ABS but eventually I had to face the facts. You might want to do the same.

mdaffron

Not to bring Pat in on this, but I'd appreciate it if you'd change your attitude toward other peoples' opinions. I stated my opinion. That, I believe, is what these discussions are for. Opinions. You come across as having the correct answer all the time and you feel the need to tell everyone what is right for them. On top of that, you seem to have some kind of smart retort to everything I post, no matter what discussion I happen to be in. And frankly I'm getting tired of it. Fact is, friend, I don't want, nor do I feel I need, ABS. The subject was brought up, views were forwarded and I forwarded mine.

First line under "Member Conduct" in the Town Hall Member Agreement: "Town Hall welcomes all points of view on automotive matters."

If you want to start a pissing match, e-mail me. I don't hide in secrecy like some cowar-- I mean members -- do:

mdaffron@the-rma.org

No manual came with my truck instructing me on the proper usage of ABS. If I'm not mistaken (and you probably will tell me I am), ABS is installed in cars so the car will brake better based on the usual stomp-the-pedal reaction most (i.e. non-auto enthusiasts) do. And by being able to modulate the brakes more quickly, it can do a better job than the driver avoiding a loss of control in some situations (such as rain). I've hit the seatbelt of a Protege at 45 mph and totaled the car, and been rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. I know what hydroplaning and the resultant accident feels like (and by the way, ABS would NOT have helped me avoid that accident). I am very much aware of safety features. What did I learn from that accident? I now have outstandingly highly rated wet traction tires on my car and I drive very carefully -- and at a speed relevant to conditions, not road signs -- in bad weather -- if I decide to drive at all. (Because you can't trust the other guy, even if HE has ABS, my friend.) And I have decided that my extra precautions make ABS an unnecessary expense. (BTW, the truck's ABS system failed twice -- under warranty, thank God.)

If there are any real public, printed-in-the-manual "instructions" on using ABS, all I've ever read is that you're not supposed to pump your brakes if you start to lose control ... just use constant pressure. So as far as my "experience" with my braking system goes, I don't think there's much else I'll learn that I haven't learned in my 22 years of driving.

Meade

dinu01

Let's carry on about ABS, w/out any fights please.

Now when I got the PRO I was thinking about ABS, but when it costs $1.000, forget it. If it was about $500, I would have chosen them.

Dinu

dinu01

Yep, we always get less features here than in the US. My ES was supposed to have alloys in the US, but I got steelies here. No power equipment on the LX - that's what forced me to get the ES. All I wanted was the 2.0 engine with pwr windows.

And on and on and on...

Dinu