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Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
weren't on ours. Regular gas is recommended,the
owners manual specifically said no 'premium'.
I'm planning on getting a fully loaded Liberty Limited this fall. Hopefully all restrictions will be lifted by then and dealers will be more willing to "deal".
Bob
Also, the XL-7 comes with 235 60 16 tires which probably help to make it more stable along with it's long wheelbase, 112" I believe.
http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/06/20/home_auto/autos_cu/<
It seems the new Montero, according to CR, is very poor in accident maneuvers, and is rated "unacceptable." Like the Trooper and Samurai, it tipped on two wheels in their tests.
I wonder how they will view the "tall" Liberty?
Bob
Drive it like the SUV it is, and learn to live with what you have. Want a car? Buy a car!!!
Bob
I practice this when driving, biking, skiing, etc.
Always be in control, even to the point of predicting other people's foolishness, and leaving a way out for yourself. That means looking in the rearview mirror and knowing someone is going to come up and cut you off and being prepared to do something about it. Leave a buffer in front and behind you.
I find it stressful doing the driving for everyone around me, but it works.
Bob
Plus, the fact that it is quite a bit taller than the Cherokee it replaces, will also cause extra scrutiny.
Bob
Bob
The first interesting fact is that the new Jeep Liberty is moving along well, the memo reports "Due to a huge success in attaining quality targets, they are increasing Liberty production well ahead of schedule. To date, over 26,000 units have been built."
By the indications we've gotten so far, the Liberty looks like it's going to be a big hit. The biggest indication has been orders -- we've received more than 50,000 so far, and they continue to pour in. Congratulations are in order for the entire Jeep team for their work on this excellent new vehicle.
----
I'm still waiting on mine with no date yet - I selected the sunroof and am willing to wait for it. Rumor has it they have 1 vendor supplying the sunroofs, and another rumor says they may add a 3rd shift to their plant to increase Liberty production. My dealership received 11 Libertys in the last 2 weeks and 4 are sold. I've seen 6 on the roads here, of which only 1 limited model (no sunroof).
remedy
Anyway, we've driven all of the competition, and the proof is in the driving. This vehicle handles so well, it's amazing. Nothing against the Forester, but that vehicle does not have enough room in the drivers seat, rear seat is cramped (6 yr old son kept kicking me during test drive), Escape/Trib problems? forget it, SanteFE? Whining engine and not enough pickup, Blazer had way too much plastic in it for the amount they were charging for it. Like I said, test drive one and you will be hooked.
MAD
bob
original order date 5/1/01 (with moonroof)
dealer re-order date 5/22/01 (without moonroof)
I called DC cust svc 800# on 6/20/01, gave them my VON# and they told me:
Vin# assigned 6/15/01
tentative ship date 6/29/01
for whats its worth, 2 salesman I was working with left the dealership during my wait. I am now working with a 3rd salesman AND one of the sales managers.
last week, this sales manager told me he went to a northeast regional meeting of his level associates for DC. one of the big topics was the moonroof availability on the libertys. he told me that moonroofs will NOT be available anytime soon. but we all know that that can change fast.
Anyhow, I think I made a big mistake when ordering my Liberty. I accidently ordered the "command" version of the 4x4 instead of the "select". Since i've been waiting 4 weeks and in the 2nd week I re-ordered with the sunroof, I am going to give them a call and see if they can change my order again. I figure I'll probably be waiting another month or so, and i'm not really in THAT big of a rush. Hopefully it will work out.
remedy
Let's start with the interior, which is to me the best aspect of the vehicle. Headroom was generous to the point of being comical, as at 6'2", I had over 6" of space above my head in the rear seat. I actually found space in the rear to be quite good. I could sit behind myself. While room wasn't generous, it was certainly adequate. The dash was well laid out and nicely detailed in the upscale Limited trim. The power windows were done incorrectly, however; if window switches are going to be on the console, it helps for them to be laid flat, which makes them easier to see and feel for quickly. Cargo space was the biggest letdown. There's not much space back there at all. Finally, the rear headrests are too small to be of much use, and I was disappointed to find adjustable seatbelt anchors curiously absent in the rear.
The driving experience was nothing special, either. The 3.7 V-6 was tuned for snappy throttle tip-in, a fact that cements my impression of a lack of low-end torque. Actually, there's just a lack of low-end torque period. Whereas the Cherokee had a nice strong feel to it at least at the beginning, the Liberty just seems to amble up to speed with no discernable strength or vigor. Furthermore, the 3.7 turned surprisingly gruff at about 3500 rpm. The ride was the best part. For a truck-like vehicle, the ride was quite nice. Not as nice as what Toyota could've come up with, but nice nonetheless. Handling disappointed. The Grand Cherokee handles better than that car. And there are several cars out there with the same basic IFS/solid axle set up that handle better than the Liberty. Off-roading is important at Jeep, yes, I understand. But I think they went too far. The Liberty leans over and the tires roll onto the sidewalls in normal (not extreme!) driving. It's not unsettling by any means, just disappointing and no fun, not even in a backwards SUV sort of way. The Cherokee and Grand Cherokee handle better.
The biggest disappointment of all was the price in light of the problems I listed. At $28,000 with leather and stuff, the Liberty is pricey for its class. The Liberty is too small to compete with the cars a class ahead of it, like the Explorer, TrailBlazer, etc. A loaded Liberty is about $5000 more than a comparable CR-V, about $3000 more than a comparable RAV4, a little more than an Escape, more than a Grand Vitara XL-7, more than a whole lot of stuff. Too expensive. Even the Sport is pricey. And on top of the high initial prices, the Liberty gets quite poor gas mileage compared to some things in the class (think RAV4 at near 30 mpg). At $16-25, the Liberty would be vying for the front of the pack. At 19-28, however, it's a middle-pack player. To those of you that want a Liberty- wait. Just wait. If you get one now, you won't even get ABS or a sunroof. Wait until fall when those options, as well as discounts, will be available. Remember that a new Honda CR-V rolls out this fall, supposedly with a more powerful engine. If it comes out with a V-6 (which is unlikely), Jeep is finished. And the Xterra will be restyled like the Frontier and equipped with a 210 hp supercharged V-6. And let's not forget the ultra-versitile and roomy Saturn VUE, which will have a butt-beating 3.0 V-6 (w/5-sp auto!) and probably a low price from the get-go. Jeep will face stiff competition this fall, and I don't know that it can handle it without havig to resort to rebates.
Bob
As far as the middle of the pack post a couple back, I say it is at the top for being a solid off-roader and towing vehicle. I need to tow a boat and jetskis into some bumpy and muddy situations. I wouldn't dare take a CRV there, that thing would either get stuck or break down.
The XTerra really wouldn't be that bad if it had more luxury options such as leather, the back seats weren't higher than the front (!?!?), and the rear bumper wasn't a huge molded plastic ugly looking thing.
Overall I feel the Liberty wins due to luxury, styling, handling, and ability to still take it offroad moderately and tow a nice size boat or other. I did feel it handled better than the Cherokee. The Grande - I loved the V8 and the handling was nice, but didn't really like the look much and it was out of my pricerange.
remedy
"For people...who need to tow, or go off-road, only the Xterra or Rodeo compare. If you're only looking for an all-weather grocery getter, yes there are better/cheaper choices"
Yeah, but you two seem to miss the point. To me, the "class" or "choices" start with price. I try to see how much I can get for X amount. So, at let's say a budget of $21,000 which vehicle meets my needs of: towing, room (for people, dogs, gear, skis, bikes,...), power, economy, looks, reliability, etc.
If I can get a roomier ("bigger") vehicle for the same price, I might just do it. I don't know how you can compartmentalize that way in size classes. I go for how much you get for the money, and what is important to you.
It all starts with price (what you can afford within your budget), and I'd imagine that applies for most people.
I've seen a number of $22-23K Libertys out there. I have yet to see one for $28K, although I'm sure that's possible too.
Bob
remedy
Bob
I just went past my local Jeep dealer and he had two Libertys, a Limited F, and a Sport B, both with "factory," not aftermarket, moonroofs on the lot.
This dealer had perhaps a dozen or so Libertys on his lot, so they're starting to show up in decent numbers now.
Bob
So far, out of 3 dealers in NYC i managed to get about 500 under sticker for a Loaded Limited.
This is after a few headaches...i have decided to wait till Fall and hopefully get a better price.
HEY!, think it is possible to arrange buyers and order from one dealer together hoping to receive a deal on a "BULK" order?
There are a number of package options available for the Sport (shown at the Edmunds site) but I could not find what is included with each package. Anyone know? The designation numbers for the Sport are 26B ($2520 MSRP); 27A ($1675);
27B ($3345); and, 25B ($1670).
One person asked if the Liberty required super/premium unleaded. The brochure states there are several "knock sensors" that retard the spark under certain conditions and allow use of regular unleaded but performance of premium unleaded.
In Albuquerque one dealer (Quality on Lomas NE) has about 10 Libertys, mostly Limited ones--there is a single Sport model. I have yet to see moonroofs or ABS options here.
I have not seen a Liberty costing 28,000; loaded ones here are about 26k; they are without ABS/moonroof, however, so cost could be higher--but--that is MSRP, and subject to dickering.
btw: Ordered the Patriot Blue Sport, and can't wait to get it in!
MAD
The poster who talked about the 28K price range of this vehicle must be looking at loaded limiteds. The CRV and RAV4 are similarly priced to the Liberty Sport and do not have low range on the tranny. Neither has a powerful engine either.
Another nice touch with the liberty is the hood with dual shocks to keep it open. No prop rod to mess with.
Still comfortable and happy happy. Went to the dealer today to get the accessories catalog. Quite a few nice items in there including rubber floor mats which I'm gonna need for the Winter.
There is no small sport utility out there that matches this for quality, performance, and features at this price point.
My dealer got mine and one other on the same day and they both sold that day. They now have none in stock and several on order.
Nick
Silver Limited Selec-Trac 4x4
Taupe/Taupe Interior
Tow Package
Offroad Package (skid plates/engine cooling/trak-lok differential/tow hooks)
ABS
Sunroof
Engine Block Heater
Heated Seats
Premium Sound, etc.
I have a 10,000 trade-in, plus a $500 deposit on it.
I am planning on removing the tow hooks temporarily to put the brush guard on the front (as i heard you can't have both!).
I am adding the spare tire cover, tubular side steps (chrome), tubular brush guard (chrome/gray), sunroof wind visor, roof-rack cross rails, taillight guards (chrome), locking gas cap, cell-phone holder, seat covers (for the backseats), slush mat set)
The accessories package is running me around $1600.
The wheels/tires I'm thinking of adding are:
Centerline Convo Pro 15x10 and Goodyear Wrangler MT/R's.
For a cool reference site for Liberty accessories, check out: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/wyckoff-chrysler-parts/jeeplibac.html
remedy
But for those who don't need the brawn of a true SUV, the Liberty offers no compelling feautre, strength, or quality that would make many choose it over the larger, cheaper, Hyundai Santa Fe, or the more fuel efficient and reliable RAV4 and CR-V. It's too small to really be an Explorer competitior, and it's too much of a guzzler to really compete with the RAV and CR-V. The interesting cars, again, will be the new CR-V and Sautrn VUE. The Liberty, as I said before, is a good vehicle. I am by no means trying to underscore it as a good vehicle. But it's not the BEST, in my book at least. It's not the best in C/Ds, either, as the Escape beat out the Liberty in the 5 BEST TRUCKS competition. The Liberty stands alone in a kind of niche, if you ask me.
BTW, I have an Escape on order (for many reasons it beat out the Liberty for me) but am still monitoring the Liberty.
Decisions, decisions...
Note: Please don't suggest one of the cute utes. I've tried em. I'm not impressed.
However, as I've said before, if you're more concerned about towing or going off road, then the Liberty is the better choice.
Bob
I ordered a Sport last week without ABS, I trust myself more than the vehicle, it's almost gotten me into more trouble than it has gotten me out of. I find ABS very unsettling on snow covered roads when stopping, and that's one the reasons I make sure at least one of our vehicles is a 4x4.
Don't get me wrong, I took the Forester on long interstate drives and up steep, dirt roads in heavy snow and in all situations it handled very well.
I'm sure most people who are cross-shopping the cute-utes with the Liberty will find the fact that the Liberty only offers those features as options, a minus in their book.
As to styling, I too like the looks of the Liberty better than that of the Forester, which I own, BTW.
As to ride height, I actually perfer the Forester over the Liberty. I find the tall ride height on the Liberty a bit unsettling, especially on a windy road. As good as the Liberty is, it can't touch the Forester in terms feeling secure through the twistys. There's much more body lean and feeling of being top-heavy with the Liberty.
Bob
Bob