Jeep Liberty

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Comments

  • sirharpersirharper Member Posts: 112
    Select Trac is a full time 4WD system with no loss of fuel economy or destruction of drive components.
    when the Jeep detects slipage the front wheels automatically and instantly engage.

    My Liberty will have Command Trac when it finally arrives (8 week custom order). I prefer to have full control over deciding when to use 2WD or 4WD.
  • hotcoffeehotcoffee Member Posts: 218
    I'm not rich- but I'd rather be in a nice safe hunk of metal like an SUV and get 15-20 Mpg. If I get 15mpg I just look at what I get for my $1.60/gallon- I get to haul my kids, my gear, my dog 15 miles and have the size and security of a 4wd SUV. That's a cheaper drive than a tinny little car that gets twice the mileage in my opinion.

    And, 2 people driving the same vehicle will get different mileage- my wife is a lead-foot- I should know!

    Have fun and remember, a couple miles per gallon is no trade for safety and utility. It doesn't add up to a whole ton of money either.
  • keninplacitaskeninplacitas Member Posts: 120
    sirharper, are you sure THE reason racing cars don't use ABS is because experienced drivers can make the car stop shorter without ABS?
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    In theory, yes, the ABS system will keep your wheels steerable and stopping distances shorter. However, more than once I've seen cars stopped ahead and applied the brakes in plenty of time, then hit a washboard surface and there goes the ABS! Now im having to drive off the road to avoid rear-ending the cars in front of me. Maybe I brake a little later and harder than the average driver. I guess some of us will agree to disagree on ABS, and as of this post im putting that argument to bed :)

    On another note, according to DC Customer Service, my Liberty was painted and going to trim on Friday! It's possible it will show up this week, but im betting on the week after. Yes!
  • theres2manytheres2many Member Posts: 19
    The task of buying a car this year is certainly more difficult than any other year I have been in the market. After a month and some heavy reading of all the fantastic info in Town Hall I have learned more about cars and trucks than I really need to know.

    My wife and I really love the lib, however, like most people we would never go off roading to justify the poor milage and the heavy duty truck. It is by far IMHO the best looking suv out there and drives nice too. The X isn't quite as nice except they are dealling on those to incent your purchase more than jeep is. so money almost took us to nissan over jeep.

    We also went in to ford for the escape. It is much faster and quicker than the previous two and much MUCH better on the milage. That is for good reason. It is a Car !!!!!!! You can't be serious about the purchase of a suv and make the choice between the escape and the lib. they are not in the same league by any stretch. In fact IMHO if you are buying or thinking of the later you are only buying for the four wheel drive.

    That is what we realized we were doing. Then we started looking at the subaru. It has better bang for the buck, I think. AWD and much cheaper than the escape. For the money...if you aren't looking for an off road vehicle and need the AWD of one you are probably not in need of a lib or a X for that matter.
    Much like we realized when we crossed the lib off our list and eventually reserved an 02 forrester... we still want a liberty, but, like someone else already said, Why put up with the suv if you don't need to. I will get car insurance not suv and 22+ gpm. not to mention almost the same cargo space and the same 150# roof rack.

    In closing the town hall and its participants with debates and info have been the best thing to car buying ever.

    TO EACH THEIR OWN
    thanks
    david
  • chetelm2chetelm2 Member Posts: 3
    Select Trac gives you the option of 2-wheel drive.
    It also gives you the option of full time 4-wheel drive which you can use on dry pavement. Last it also gives you the same option of Command Trac of part-time 4-wheel drive.
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    IMO - I've read many reviews on all the SUV's in the liberty's class as well as the liberty itself. It seems to me that all the SUV's are judged by themselves and also against their competition. but in the liberty's case, not only is it judged by itself and against the competition, it is also judged against the jeep cherokee. read any article and there is usually a paragraph comparing the liberty to the cherokee as if the cherokee was also a competitor. this is just another hurdle that the liberty has to climb that the other SUV's dont have to. after all, was the escape ever compared against the explorer?
  • sirharpersirharper Member Posts: 112
    Well the expirence is only most of it. Another reason the fact that ABS calipers and incapable of delivering continuous consistent pressure on the rotors which is a major factor in cutting stopping distance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    feel ABS is a superior system, at least for most drivers.

    Bob
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Attack on Anti-Lock Brakes

    Fixing Antilock Brakes

    Steve
    Host
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  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    sirharper, the vehicles with or without ABS have exactly the same braking hardware. The only difference that ABS equipped vehicles will have a control unit + wheel speed sensors to detect lockup. There is no such thing as "ABS calipers".

    FYI, I believe the new Viper will have ABS. High performance cars like the Porsche 911 Turbo, Ferraris, etc. all have ABS. In the Speedvision World Challenge, teams are given the option of having either upgraded brakes, or the stock brakes with ABS. The cars with ABS consistently have an advantage, especially in the rain, since they are able to carry in their braking late into the turn-in point without having their wheels lock up and hence causing the car to spin around. In the last race at Lime Rock, a couple of crashes were caused by drivers locking up their rear brakes, causing the rear ends to rotate around.

    Race cars aren't usually allowed to have them because it helps too much. Same reason that they aren't allowed to have traction control. However, this is changing as far as Formula One is concerned, I believe.

    In my driving courses, the instructors (all who are also race drivers) have said that ABS is probably the greatest enhancement that they've come across lately as far as braking control goes. In our panic braking exercises, the non-ABS cars had significantly longer stopping distances even with threshold and or cadence braking. Not only this but they didn't necessarily stop in a straight line either.

    Tony, it's not just in theory but real world tests have proven this to be true. If one brakes a little later and harder, then you're even more likely to lock up the brakes. What you say about washboard surfaces is true. However once again, it all comes down to how the ABS is configured. On some vehicles it's better than others and it won't activate prematurely.

    The off-road issue doesn't apply to the Liberty since it has a special ABS algorithm in Low range.

    Good luck with your Liberty,

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    tony you mentioned your liberty is painted etc.

    what 800# are you calling to get your info?
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    does anyone know how long it takes for the gov't crash tests to be performed on the liberty? shouldn't they have happened by now?
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    I call 1-800-992-1997. Hopefully it will have shipped by Monday and I can get a rail car # or some other info. I believe it will ship CSX Transportation. I wasn't shocked to hear it was done but I didnt think it would be this soon. A friend of my wife's told me his son, who works for DC, could help me. I think he knows people at the factory and got my order pulled early. I thought he was just acting like a big shot but apparently he came through. I'll let you know how it works out.

    Tony
  • hckynuthckynut Member Posts: 84
    rsholland. I realize you have your preferences but so do others. I am one of those you mentioned that prefers a SUV and also prefers a 2 Wheel Drive.
    I live in Nebraska and have lived thru 62 winters here. The 2001 winters ranks among the worst I've seen. I now have a FWD Pontiac Gran Prix and there was no time when I could not get where I wanted to go when I wanted to go. I live way out in the country with an acreage and dirt/gravel roads.
    I got along fine with 2WD with a car and I have no plans of doing any Off Road Driving unless forced to by another vehicle on the road.

    I prefer a SUV over a car because first off you sit Higher and have better visability and also reduces the glare of the new version headlights(Halogen and whatever the new purple ones are called) than in a lower to the ground automobile. The SUV also has more ground clearance than any car I've driven lately or ever for that matter.

    I can equip a 2WD version with many more options by not going for the much more expensive 4WD version which I don't feel will benefit my mobility any with my normal travels.

    Your opinion my opinion. I guess I don't like to classify people with different opinions as "I don't understand why anyone would???"
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    yeah thats the # I call and give them the last 8 digits of my vin#. looks like your gonna get yours before I get mine, but mine has ABS and I believe your did not? anyway my ship date has been july 23rd now for the last few weeks and they think it will be built the end of this week.

    good luck
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Stopped by my Jeep dealer yesterday. They had two Libertys with moonroofs, one a factory option, the other an aftermarket item.

    Factory option = $700.00

    Aftermarket option = $1,495.00

    Bob
  • sirharpersirharper Member Posts: 112
    The euro cars that you mentioned have ABS in most cases have it as the result of legal requirement not unlike the required headlight cleaner/wipers in many areas. Viper will have ABS now and this is unfortunate. Rest assured the phenominal stopping power Viper once had will suffer as a result. If the engineers had for one moment believed that ABS was better they would have put it there from day one! I'm not a hater of ABS in fact I will confess to using in today even as a moron in a Volvo overshot a driveway and went into reverse on a major US Highway. But, If have an option to remove it I will without hesitation.
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    Does anyone know approximately how long it takes a vehicle to get to the dealer once it's been built? I've been told 1-3 weeks, is that close? Do they sit around a long time waiting to get shipped? Any previous experiences greatly appreciated, expecially with DC.

    Tony
  • montsuemontsue Member Posts: 6
    I placed my first order for a Liberty with a dealer and after 4 weeks I found out that the dealer never placed the order with Jeep. I just went to another dealer and placed another order. What can I do to find out if the order is really placed with Jeep. I asked the dealer for an order number to confirm, but he told me the would get a Vehicle Order Number (VON) in 1-2 weeks. Seems odd to me that he wouldn't have a confirmation as soon as the order was placed.

    Can I contact Jeep directly to get info on the order and status (1-800#)? If so, what info do I need to have to check the order? Any other advice?
  • petersburg100petersburg100 Member Posts: 29
    Can I use 4WD full time all the time year-around if I choose Select Trac? Secondly, does it need "a differential", an option? What is the purpose of a differential?
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    Not bad atall!! Thinking of trading the escape for liberty or grand cherokee laredo. Great incentives on leasing a laredo which would help eat up any negative equity in the escape. Both jeep vehicles look great and they would come out with killer incentives when after i buy an escape in last march, darn.

    http://www.carmax.com/
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    Is 4x4 limited liberty for $24,400 Good Price with these options PKG: 27F Details
    Air Conditioning
    AM/FM/Cassette/CD
    Power Steering
    Cloth Seats
    Power Windows
    Power Locks
    Cruise Control
    Keyless/Remote Entry


    Rear Defroster
    Intermittent Wiper
    Tilt/Telescope Wheel
    Power Seats
    4 Wheel Drive
    Rear Wiper
    Power Mirrors
    Fog Lamps
    Specifications

    Automatic
    3.7L Engine
    6 Cylinders
    4 Door
    4WD
    EPA Mileage 16/20
    210 Horsepower@5000rpm
    235 Torque@4400rpm
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    No, those manufacturers included it because ABS shortens stopping distances. AFAIK, there is no legal requirement anywhere for ABS, nor do I think there ever will be. Plenty of cars in Europe are still sold without it.

    If you slam on the brakes from 60 mph, there is no way that you can stop in a shorter distance than in a non-ABS car. When you brake while going forward, the weight transfers to the front of the car, hence increasing the contact patch of the front wheels giving it more traction. However, this also causes the rear end to become light and the rear wheels to lock up. Once the rear end locks up, it loses directional control and the car can easily spin and swap directions with the front.. The second scenario is when all wheels lock up.

    The only way to prevent this is cadence braking where you let it lock, release, and then try to find the threshold. ABS simply is cadence braking but many times faster than any human can accomplish. It keeps it at the threshold without you having to second guess. Most people would simply pound on the brake pedal in an emergency. A locked wheel has 10% less resistance than a rolling wheel at its tractive limit anyway, so you wouldn't want to lock your brakes up anyway since it results in longer braking distances. When you're on a split-mu surface with one side of the car on a surface with more traction, braking hard will cause the tires on the slippery side to lock up right away and spin the car right around. Also, if you lock up the front wheels of a FWD car, it will cause the car to stall immediately if it's in gear since the wheels are connected directly to the engine.

    The Viper was sold without ABS because of weight reasons, and also because many owners used it for competitive uses and in many races, ABS is not allowed because it helps too much.

    I do maintain that not all ABS is the same and that some systems are a lot better at stopping the car in the shortest distance possible, only acting when needed.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    I ordered my Liberty on 6-19-01 and I got my Vehicle Order Number instantly. It's created at the time the order is placed. If you don't have a VON, you don't have an order.
  • lovethosesuvslovethosesuvs Member Posts: 95
    From what I've been reading about the JGC, I wouldn't waste my money. Reliability looks to be in the hole, and resale, well forget that too. That's why it's so heavily incented.

    If I had to have a Jeep, I'd give the Liberty a chance.

    But I'll be getting my Escape soon!
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    if your are in NE PA, your info of 1-3 weeks is probably more on the 2-3 weeks or around 18-20 days. I am in the lower hudson valley of NY and I have looked at all the libertys on my dealers lot. they all have little stickers on the windshield with dates (its the only date I could find). anyway, I took some notes with these dates and when the dealer got the car to the best of my knowledge (I went there 3 times one week and noted the dates and the new libertys I had not seen before). the time(s) from the sticker to the day I saw it for the first time on the lot was around 19 days avg.

    BTW - I'm calling again today to make sure my ship date is still 7/23. At first, I was given a ship date of 6/29, then after the 4th of july holiday it was quoted as 7/23 and had been that ever since. i suspect ABS had something to do with it. or the fact that the dealer screwed up my first order leaving off several options I wanted and this order in now a dealer NOT a customer order and I think customer orders take preference on the line.
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    "...purchased a 2001 XTerra- great deal and (I think) a better truck. I suggest everyone drive both vehicles on the same day- and honestly assess all the factors of standard equipment, cargo room etc..."

    The best way is to get a friend or spouse to test drive one, and you test drive the other. Then meet at a parking lot and compare with tape measures, 4 big friends (for seating room), and try loading each up with "stuff".
  • hotcoffeehotcoffee Member Posts: 218
    Most excellent idea!

    THAT, my friend, is "market research".

    I already chose the "X"- but next vehicle- that's what I will do!

    Thanks. Best Regards to all- enjoy your SUV's!
  • johndal21johndal21 Member Posts: 4
    It was time to buy a new vehicle. (grin) My Jeep Wrangler had served me well but it was starting to show its age after 6 years. After over 1 year worth of research I was down to 4 vehicles to possibly purchase. Dodge Durango fell of by a less then stellar gas mileage and a lacking response in steering. The Xterra was far to truck like for my taste and pretty uncomfortable for those long rode trips. (not to much difference between my Wrangler in seat comfort) I decided to spend a day test-driving another Xterra, a Grand Cherokee Limited and a Liberty Limited. After half a day spent going over an Xterra I decided it just didn’t have enough horsepower or enmities to suit my taste. I headed over to the Jeep dealership and test-drove a Grand Cherokee Limited. While I enjoyed the drive and feel, I wanted to give the Liberty a chance and test-drove one as well. From the start I was impressed with the tight feel and excellent interior fit. (I was in a Liberty Sport) After driving for well over an hour, going over the features and asking a million questions I decided to purchase a Jeep Liberty Limited 4x4 with the G package. I ended up loading all other options available such as skid plates, GPS Navigation System, bike rack, tow package items, new BF Goodrich All Terrain tires, and tow hooks. I have already placed well over 2500 miles to include a 14 hour round trip road foray to Memphis. My tall friend(s) (6’4”) have made comments as to the comfort for a seemingly small vehicle. If you want a mid sized, excellent horse power SUV with all the trims..( or not) I would HIGHLY recommend a Jeep Liberty. Another happy owner.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sounds like a very nicely equipped Liberty. Good luck with it.

    Bob
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    what is the actual build time of the liberty once it actually goes into production? from painting to out the door completed??

    thanks
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    Guess we'll just keep answering each others questions? I was told 2-3 days from the moment your vehicle physically begins being built until the time it's ready to be shipped.

    On another note, Im addicted to the 800#. Now that I know it's built and sitting somewhere I need information. Im up to 2 calls per day, I need help....

    Tony
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    image

    July 17th: "The Top 10 features your next car HAS to have!"
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    I like the woodland brown but the patriot blue is a close second.
  • petersburg100petersburg100 Member Posts: 29
    The DG products have a long history of producing poor and marginal crash test results:

    Jeep Grande Cherokee 2000: Marginal
    Chrysler 300M/LHS 2000: Poor
    Chrysler/Dodge Minivan 2001: Poor (announced today)
    Dodge Neon 2000: Marginal

    Source: www.hwysafety.org

    I am expecting a statement from DG demonstrating why Jeep Liberty is different. I defer my purchase decision until such a statement is issued. Why should I buy another poor/marginal DG product (such as Jeep Liberty) if there are better cars available?
  • funkyjinglesfunkyjingles Member Posts: 6
    I am interested in ordering AS brakes when I buy a Liberty in December. Although most of these posts recommend AS, it sounds as though these brakes would FAIL on washboard type roads. I drive a road like this every day. Most of my drive is on the highway but I have about 2 miles of road that make it necessary for me to have a REAL 4-wheel drive. Which eliminates most of the small SUB choices.

    Would some recommend against AS in this situation. I drive about 20 miles on the highway and 2 miles on a dirt road which is steep and not well maintained. I live over 11,000 feet and get lots of snow 7 months out of the year.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm just looking the safest option.

    Also, some may recall that I eliminated the Liberty from my choices because the back seat won't fold flat. That still REALLY bothers me but my husband said he could rig something up to make it a flat area when needed. Does anybody know if the 2003 model will be fixing this problem?
  • funkyjinglesfunkyjingles Member Posts: 6
    I used the spell check on this site and decided I didn't need to change anything. However, I misunderstood how this worked and it changed all my "ABS" references to "AS".

    Hopefully this won't confuse too many people.

    Thanks for any advice on the previous question!!!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We knew that :-). You also have 30 minutes to make any changes or fixes after you post a message. Just click on the Edit button that follows your message after you post it.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

  • haphaphappyhaphaphappy Member Posts: 3
    In case anyone was wondering... I got the 4x2 Ltd w/Pkg G and heated seats. Paid $23000 (jeep.com $23970) including destination. I could've gotten lower but was happy with the dealer experience (Midway San Diego). The speakers are awesome; but i'll have to be careful, the stereo system can easily overdrive them. This vehicles only down side that I can see is lack of a track record. I am hoping the Daimler management will transpose there engineering prowess on this vehicle (crossing my fingers). Regardless, I could not find any other vehicle that matched in Price/Performance/Style to my Liberty.

    Thanks to all the posters here. You were a big contributor into my confidence to jump on a Jeep.

    HapHapHappy
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    I am also addicted to that 800# although I keep feeling I'm being a pain in the rear. but I've never gotten the same rep twice.
    as of yesterday, they (the 800# people) said mine was going in today for painting etc. and they showed it being completed by fri the 20th.

    I also had my dealer verify this - I got a verbal from them - who needs them anyway. I also asked them how long to get here from their experience? he said about a week which if true is good news. I can use you as a judge cause yours is about a week ahead of mine? and we're not that far apart geographically.
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    here is the link to the rail shipper to the east out of toledo


    http://www.csxt.com/com/auto/fac/map.htm

  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    for you tony - get your railcar # first

    http://www.csxt.com/eco/touch.htm
  • kjookjoo Member Posts: 27
    ITS UGLY
  • mdisaacsmdisaacs Member Posts: 28
    It might be early to ask...With the 3.7L posted as 16/20mpg what are you really getting and what part of the country are you in? The Subaru Outback with a 3.0L gets 20/27mpg so I'm hoping the Liberty does better in the real world than 16/20.
    -thanks
  • sasquatch_2000sasquatch_2000 Member Posts: 800
    You would think they'd let you trace it online, thus eliminating all those phone calls. Let the computers do the repetitive dirty work repetitive dirty work. ;-)

    The Ulgy is ugly?
  • hotcoffeehotcoffee Member Posts: 218
    We drive bigger, more versitile, safer, vehicles and a few less miles per gallon are worth it.

    Why sweat it. You can make up for a lot of gas by budgetting somewhere else in your daily life.

    3 more miles per gallon on a car that is getting 20mpg- is 15%. Say, you use 20 gallons a week at $1.50. A 15% savings is only $4.50 a week.

    Skip the Starbucks with the scone one day a week (or another activity that can easily be changed) and you've paid for the added safety and utility for the whole weelk.

    A couple of mpg is HIGHLY overrated. I choose HIGH, BIG, and SAFE.
  • winbrowinbro Member Posts: 235
    what is the latest people are hearing about ABS restriction???? did they ever have any ABS models produced??? mine has ABS & I'm getting conflicting reports. I'm at D1 status (ok to build; all parts available) but when I call DC, 1 rep tells me its restricted by ABS, another tells me if I'm at d1 it's a GO, otherwise it would NOT be at D1. my dealer says the same. the reports they get weekly of whats coming in includes my liberty with ABS - confusing??? well I have a ship date of 7/23 so I guess I'll know soon whats right.
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Re #1099,
    Real world tests at Car and Driver magazine show 15 mpg for the Liberty, 23 mpg for the Subaru 3.0. That is a big difference that will affect the consumer and the environment. As far as safer, who are
    you kidding. Subaru got some the best marks ever in the Highway Institutes offset crash, while the bigger and better Ford F-150 folded
    up like an accordian. The Subaru also handles better a is FAR less likely to roll over in a crash. The Jeep hasn't been tested, but blanket safety statements like that are uncalled for and untrue.

    Jeep built a new vehicle that weighs 600-700 lbs more than the Cherokee (it even weighs more than a Grand Cherokee) but has the same cargo capacity as a Toyata RAV4 (with the seats up). This is progress?
    Even the much larger Explorer and Trailblazer get similar gas mileage.
    This vehicle needs a diet. Bad!

    Personally, I don't care what people drive. But trying to influence them with this bigger is better drivel is nonsense. Maybe we should all drive Kenworths.......
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