RE:1101 Aside from getting a good chuckle from the above post, the author has done a very good job of hitting the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards To All, 02.
Ah, another interjection from a Subaru driver. What's with you Subaru guys. Bored with the Subaru site? Bored with your car? But you're right, the Subaru gets considerably better gas milage than the Liberty. Most cars do. I owned a Forester. It's a good car. Paid nearly $26K for it in April of '98. One of the things I do now before buying a car or SUV is write up a decision analysis table (alternatives across the top and weighted objectives down the side then score each alternative against each objective on a scale of 1 to 5, multiplying that number against the objective's weighting factor and then adding each column). So far, the Liberty wins hands down over the Forester (even though milage with it's large weighting factor does drag the Liberty down considerably). There are lots of objectives to consider and milage is only one of them (for instance, quality, and driving height). On your comment on safety ("Blanket safety statements like that are uncalled for and untrue"), what about your own comment that the Subaru "handles better and is far less likely to roll over in a crash". Well now, where did you get that set of 'facts'? Actually though, we're talking apples and oranges here aren't we. We're pitting a true off-road SUV against a light duty off-road car.
I wonder if the tree hugging Subaru owners can get to the tree in their cars?
Conservation of fuel oil is a joke. If it was an issue, how come the liberals haven't clamped down on all of us gas hogging SUV owners like they did with cars. If you ask me it was a conspiracy to allow the marketplace/economy to accelerate via the truck/suv market. How else can you explain the explosion, and targeting of women, with the SUV. I sure don't rember, and am old enough too, many women tooling aroung in truck/SUV's in the early 80's. Just today I saw a grandma in downtown San Diego tooling around in a Ranger (wierd). In fact I remeber when you used to be able to get a truck for half the price of a car!
I'm sure some day we'll have decent electric cars; but, the Toyota and Honda electrics look like a crushed soda can waiting to be crushed.
I thought I was the only one who made such a detailed decision analysis!! I like your method.
Mine involves a similar procedure, with one set of objectives in a group called "Factors discovered only after test driving" (for example, with the Liberty I felt like my face was right up against the windshield). This method makes sense because you can take all of your OWN factors that matter. I also include things like "more than one dealer in the area" since around here there are big service problems with one particular dealer whose name is on more than one franchise.
For me, it was the Ford Escape that won.
You must be in Finance, Management, or Marketing Research. Maybe we should suggest to Edmunds that they put an analysis like this out on their site! Makes things so much clearer with a complicated decision like this.
I found it humorous that you placed a list of vehicles together that do not even compare in likeness much less safety. While safety is a HIGH consideration on many peoples list at least give the Liberty a chance prior to stigmatizing it by your less then fair statement. “ Why should I buy another poor/marginal DG product (such as Jeep Liberty) if there are better cars available? “ as you have noted it has not been tested as of yet and there isn’t any reason to believe that it will be a less then stellar outcome. In Jeep’s defense I suggest you go and look at the safety ratings of my previous vehicle before I bought my Liberty, a Jeep Wrangler. Take note it is BETTER then many SUV’s out there .and this a softtop vehicle to boot. Regardless, my point is simple ..wait until the test are presented prior to making ill statements about a vehicle that in my opinion is a great purchase. If Safety is the ulitmate concern....buy a BMW X5. (grin)
I've been lurking on this board for a couple weeks now and have enjoyed all the insights. I've never owned a Jeep, but my father-in-law has owned 5 and loves them. I'm very interested in the Liberty and will probably go for a test drive soon. Has anyone purchased a Liberty in the Chicagoland area? Just curious where you went and if they were dealing. I've been waiting a little bit because I want the ABS, but it sounds like Libertys with ABS should be arriving soon. Thanks in advance,
I have my own beefs with Subaru, trust me, but I was interested in a Liberty until I sat in one. The Subie does handle better, .76g vs .72g on the skidpad, 188ft vs 199ft from 70-0. Any 10 year old can tell you which will roll over first. I was hoping for something more in the Escape/Tribute size range, not something that weighs more than a Grand Cherokee. Many current Cherokee owners I know are less than thrilled with the new Liberty. But hey, this is America. We can buy whatever we want. But who is the first to complain when gas prices exceed $2.00/gal.......
This may have been discussed before but does anyone know what the Jeep dealer holdback actually is? I am guessing 3% of invoice but perhaps only 2%. Looking to order a Liberty Limited in woodland brown, with 27G pkg, heated seats for the wife and ABS. Looks like the MSRP should be $26,475 although on some of the websites the 27G pkg is shown @$1925 and other sites @ $2320.
I am cutting out several opportunities for the dealer to make money as there will be no trade, no financing as I will use our personal credit union and I do not intend on buying a dealer's inflated extended warranty. If my calculations are correct, it appears that there is a difference of $1,762 between invoice and MSRP on this particular specced vehicle. So far in the MD area, the best offer has been $1,125 off MSRP. If in fact the holdback is 3%, that accounts for another $741 in profit for the dealer or total profit of $1378. As this would be a factory order and the dealer would not have to floor plan this vehicle, my thought is that I should negotiate this a bit harder.
I did a lot of test driving and also the analysis similar to the one mentioned above. Drove the Rav4(to small)and didn't care for it at all. Looked at the Outback but it reminded me too much of the Station Wagons I drove in 1964/65/67. Didn't even want to go beyond that point.
Drove the Liberty and like most everything about it except the windshield seemed to me a little closer to my face than any of the others I drove. Didn't particularly care for the lower mileage. The main reasons I ruled it out was cost and the fact that with 2WD it is driven by the rear wheels(not good for our winters here)and the comparison costs with the others I did like.
Drove the Mazda Tribute and also like most everything about it. It rode more like a truck than all of the others. Thought maybe it was just that particular SUV so asked to drive a different one. Same thing. Interior much cheaper looking than the Liberty and not as many wheel components.
Drove the Ford Escape. Liked the way it drove and handled. Much better ride and handling than the Tribute with either the 2WD or 4WD. Also liked the availability of the options I wanted without any order hold ups. Also found out I could use the Ford Motor X-Plan to purchase it. All things considered
Liberty:
No 2 wheel Front Drive
A problem getting ABS
A problem getting a Power Moonroof
Several thousand dollars more than I could purchase the Escape.
Lower mileage
Really like the Liberty but I couldn't justify getting a Rear Drive car. I didn't want to spend the kind of money wanted for the 4WD.
Ordered a 2002 Escape XLT with the Premium Package This package only has 3 Options.
1)Side Step Bars
2)Side Air Bags
3)Mach Audio System.
Added the Side Bars and that completed the order.
Delivered price using the X-Plan came out to be $22,194. The Liberty as close as I could compare them using the Edmunds TMV price was about $2800 more for the Liberty and that was without the Power Moonroof.
Some things to consider: The Liberty has an available full time four wheel drive system.
People over at the Escape board are complaining of lousy gas mileage, as low as 14mpg.
The Liberty is heavy because it is built heavy-duty. Examples being forged steel lower control arms, heavy crossbeams to strengthen the roof, etc.(think safety)
Moonroofs arent a problem now, mine is already built and on it's way, ordered June 19.
Pricing is about equal, unless you are lucky enough to qualify for a pricing plan. DC has a friends and family plan, but it's not available on the Liberty or PT Cruiser yet.
Escape has had reliability issues, 5 recalls in the first model year. Still many people are calling for more. Some complain of gas smell inside the vehicle. I personally work with a woman who has an Escape. At 3000 miles it's been in the shop twice, keeps stalling.
I too fell in love with the Escape when it came out. After all the issues it has, coupled with the fact that it's car based, I decided on the Liberty. If im going to be driving an SUV, i might as well have the durability/capability to go along with it.
I have to agree with Tony on this issue. I too wanted the Escape/Tribute as well, but the reliability issues with this vehicle just did not warrant the purchase. Even in my Tribute test drive did we experience the fuel smell. Brought the car and salesman back to the dealership and said "no thanks", even with him telling me that these issues can be fixed. No way am I shelling out hard earned money for a vehicle with these types of issues, as well as new ones popping up every day.
I follow the msg boards, read the reviews. I know that C&Driver gave it top ratings, but I follow my own experiences, and the Liberty just had all that I wanted. Hopefully Ford will get it right next time, because they do make a pretty good product. I have a 98 Ford Taurus SE that is just an awesome vehicle (knocking on wood). No problems at all, with 66k on the odo. Good luck with your TriScape, I'll stick with my Liberty.
Just spoke to the Dealership, 3 to 4 more weeks till delivery of our Patriot Blue Sport, ABS, SelecTrac, Foglamps, Deep Tint and speed control. Got the VIN, and waiting approval of loan from Credit Union. Keep on Truckin'
as usual tony & mad, you've done your homework on the triscape duo Vs the liberty. I ditto everything they have said RE: the triscape's. though the recalls were early on and nothing that earth shaking. the fuel smell, stalling engine and poor independent offset crash results are the major drawbacks. not to mention the utterly cheap quality of the interior even in the top models. If you really read the escape/tribute chat room messages, IMO 80% of the people are in love with that SUV because of power and handling. well If I wanted power & handling, I'd go for a maxima or an acura etc. GO for a REAL SUV, get a liberty.
BTW tony, your's is shipped? what date was it shipped? I guess I can judge how long it takes to ship by when you get yours. my ship date as of fri the 20th was still 7/23 and the rep said it was in framing stage fri. we'll see. still think there is an ABS problem.
It hasn't shipped yet, but it's in I status. That basically means it's built, but it hasn't been released pending final inspections & emissions. If anyone has a Liberty on order, I'll post the order status codes below. These are the letter codes that are given to the dealer with each weekly update. Also, if you call the 800#, they'll tell you the status, but they'll usually explain what the codes mean. However, they're not always correct with their explanations:
You will need the VIN number Note: your VON (8 digit Vehicle Order Number) will also work..
Call 1-800-992-1997 (1-800-465-2001 from Canada). Listen to the automated operator then press 2 - note: sometimes 3. (To continue.) Hold for the next available agent. Do not enter an extension number, wait on the line (it will sound dead for a while). When Prompted press 1. (you are a customer.) When Prompted press 3. (customer service issues.) Press 3 Again. (customer service issues.) If you have a VIN
If you have a VIN, press 1 here and provide the number If you do not yet have a VIN, you can try using the 8 digit VON.
VON only - Press 3 = Home telephone number Enter your 10 digit home telephone number. (No 1 before the area code.) Press 1 (If telephone number reads back to you correctly.) Wait on the line for a customer service representative. When they pick up tell them you want to check on the status of a new vehicle order. If you plan to make several calls as the truck order progresses:
On your second call, ask them for your File Number, they create it after you call the first time. Using this number will speed things up on subsequent calls.
ORDER STATUS CODES Not Scheduled yet BB review by fleet department BD special equipment processing BE edit error BG passed edit n/a for schedule BGL edit ok parts unavailable BX passed edit available for schedule Scheduled: C sub firm D firm schedule - dealer has allocation and all parts available D1 gateline schedule - scheduled to be built Assembly Line: E frame F paint G trim Assembly Completed: I built not ok'd J built ok'd JB shipped to body vendor JE emission check JS shipped to storage KZ released by plant , invoiced Shipping Status: KZL released - not shipped KZM first rail departure KZN first rail arrival KZO delayed/recieved KZOA plant holds KZOB zone/distribution holds KZOC carrier delays KZOD carrier holds KZOE mis-shipped vehicle KZOF show/test vehicle KZOG damaged vehicle KZOH all other reasons KZT second rail departure KZU second rail arrival KZX delivered to dealer KZY1 - major damage - must not be sold as new KZY2 - major damage - vehicle sold at auction ZA canceled
"Pricing is about equal, unless you are lucky enough to qualify for a pricing plan. DC has a friends and family plan, but it's not available on the Liberty or PT Cruiser yet"
Just wondering where you got your info from on the fact that they aren't offering the EP on the Liberty. I've been to three dealerships and they have all been able to give me the EP. I sure hope you are wrong....cause if that's the case I will have to rethink my decision to get a Liberty.
Before purchasing the Liberty, my wife and I checked out the Escape also. We both liked the looks, ride, and handling, but it had and HAS too many issues with safety, especially the stalling problem. I really feel badly for those who spent over $22,000 for a truck that stalls without warning. As far as the issue on X plan pricing being less than what you can get a Liberty for, dollarwise, this is true. But, unless you pay cash for it, you will pay more for the Escape, even though it may be up to a couple thousand less than the Liberty. The rates Ford Motor Credit has on the Escape are much higher than the rates you can get a Liberty for. BTW, I have had my Liberty for 1 week now(500 miles), and it is a blast to drive. Maybe it's just me, but I think the acceleration on the Liberty is better than the Escape. I like how it feels so solidly built; it feels like a true SUV. One more comment; the interior, by far, is superior to the Escape. It feels so much more upscale in the Liberty.
I got that from a friend of my wife's, whose son works for DC. He has been driving a pre-production Liberty since April or May. He was going to get me the friends and family discount but he told us it didnt apply to the Liberty. I cant verify if that's true or not, just what I was told. I think it's worth mentioning that where I work they offer the X plan for Ford, but it wasn't enough to sway me to the Escape.
What kind of rate is DC offering on the Liberty? I know there are no "incentives" but I have to believe it is better then the Escape? I am eligable for the xplan on the escape, and I too am hesitating. I LOVE the liberty, just wish the mileage was just a tad better and I am waiting for the official crash tests. Safety is still important.
Any help with the finance rates would be helpful...thanks
what kind of gas are liberty owners using in the 3.7 motor liberty? also any owners care to weigh in with their actual MPG so far? also what kind of oil is recommended at oil change time? I know with the escape/tribute v6 5w-20 is the oil you are to use which I'm told is more costly & harder to find.
only 25 messages in the JEEP LIBERTY PROBLEM chat section and most of those are US regulars telling those that did post there to put simple gripes on this section and keep that reserved for ligitimate safety/mechanical problems. so far a good sign.
In contrast i was just over at the Escape/Tribute Problem board. 952 posts so far. I really feel bad for those people! Most talk about the same stalling problem my friend is having. Anyway time will tell with the Liberty, but at this point in the Escape's release it had 2 recalls. One was for the steering wheel coming off(wrong fastener) and the other was for the wheels falling off(wrong hub)! Yikes!
I still hope you are wrong Tony :-) My brother works for DC and that's where I got my info from along with the three different dealers I went to. I may not be right, but I remember someone telling me that all dealers do not have to offer EP. It's the choice of the dealer, and that the EP is the same wherever I go.
Just to give you an idea of the amount of savings you get with EP here's the invoice #'s I have. It's not a dramatic savings, but a couple thousand dollars is a couple thousand dollars! That's enough to pull me to the Liberty. Plus I love everything about it on the three test drives I've been on. Anyway, back to the subject.
Just talked with my brother and he mentioned something that I didn't think about earlier. The EP is only available on factory order vehicles, and I had planned on ordering. That is probably why I wasn't given a problem from the 3 dealers I went to as to EP on the Liberty.
Congrats on your purchase! Im jealous now, but mine is sitting in the plant's lot or on a train somewhere. As for accessories, don't discount the Mopar accessories so quick. I bought rubber mats for my current ride (94 S-10) from Pep Boys, and they just dont fit quite right. They overhang both sides and dont go up far enough. Exterior parts I would definitely recommend factory for 2 reasons:
1. Factory parts are tested on the vehicle for fit and things like wind noise/vibration
2. I've found that the factory parts hold up much longer as far as rust and fastening positions.
Also, you can probably get the dealer to warranty a factory add-on part if they're willing to. No factory part will void your warranty if it's installation damages something on the vehicle like an aftermarket will. I plan on buying about $1000 worth of factory add-ons in the next few weeks, I think it's worth it in the long run.
Mopar has a catalog of accessories just for the Liberty, ask your dealer for it.
This message is for winbro. I have used about three tank of gas on my new lib, with the 3.7L. It has all been around town and im getting about 17mpg. As for the oil I will have to look to be sure, but I think it is 5W-30. So far I love my new lib, thanks to everyone, and there messages it sure helped out alot.
Actually, the DC financing wasn't as good as one of the local banks my dealer deals with. The bank they go through is Fifth Third Bank and the rate was 5.9% for 48 months I believe. Not that I wanted one, but I thought for sure I could get an Escape cheaper on X Plan than a Liberty without any special discounts. I know I would have been sorry if I bought an Escape, even if it didn't seem to have any problems. I would always wonder when, where, and if it would stall, with my family in it. I know it's only been a little over a week since I got my Flame Red Liberty Sport 4x4, but I will say it again: I love it!
thanks for the posting - 17mpg around town not all that bad considering......
congrats to all new liberty owners - keep on lovin em.
tony & I are racing to get ours - as of 7/23, my order with ABS was built & waiting for 1st rail shippment. KZL status. I did ask the rep I spoke to if her info was "real time". she said it's real time to the dist center computer and admitted, that there may be some difference u=in her info to what actually is going on.
Talk to the sales manager at the place you bought your Jeep and try to get 10-15% off. It's a loyalty thing. Especially if they don't have to install it.
I'm sure, like the http://www.xterrastore.com many LIBERTY parts sites will pop up to provide the cool stuff you might want. But it will probably be a while before there are enough LIBS in consumer's garages to be profitable.
In response to your post# 1124, is there a percentage for the EP that your brother used to get that price below FWP? Now who is aloud to get this price and how does it work?
For what I have seen in pictures the Liberty looks real good, I have an ML430 and I could not be more pleased, I am so familiar with it that I could not help but notice some "layout" similarity, like the front and rear overhang of the Liberty and the ML, I wonder if the ML chassis was used for the Liberty, also I noticed the ML A/C dials, for what I read the ride is solid like an ML, makes me wonder if finally Mercedes is starting to trickle into Chrysler, when I have a chance I will visit the dealer and make an inspection and test drive, I do like the looks of the Liberty.
Im guess Im just too choosy when it came to the options. I got every option I wanted and not one that I didn't want. Im sure I could find one that came close on the lot, but it gives me much more satisfaction to have one built.
I have also heard that if you want the off-road package, it's very rare to have one sitting on the lot. The dealers just dont think anyone would be interested in them. This included the Cherokees as well. Anyway should only be a couple more days, the last update I had they said it had shipped over the weekend!
I'm really not sure how the whole thing works. I don't believe it is a percentage. From talking with the dealer I think it's the base price minus all the extras added in from the dealer. That is just a guess too. The paperwork I have from DC says nothing about how they get to the EP. I will try to get more info for you. As for who is eligible......DC has two seperate programs. Family and Friends. My brother said he has certificates that he can give out to friends.....those are based on a percentage I belive. As for EP here is a list of who is eligible. Employees, retirees, eligible family memebers (spouse, parents, step-parents, spouse's parents, sons, daughters, stepsons, stepdaughters, brothers, sisters, stepbrothers, stepsisters, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, half brother and half sister). If the DC employee/retiree is deceased the list really shrinks, to spouse, children, and stepchildren.
I have had two dealerships tell me today that the Limited was on restriction and they could not order one right now. Anyone else heard this or are they trying to push what is already on their lot?
Im not sure if it's true or not, but your best bet is to call Daimler-Chrysler at 1-800-992-1997 and go through the menus to Customer Service. Ask them about any restrictions. The dealers are usually in the dark or weeks behind any updates. When I was picking a dealer, I had one tell me that the plant was closing for a few months to re-tool for the new model year. He didnt seem concerned when I asked "isn't the Liberty already a 2002 model year?"
One of the main reasons we ordered our Sport was the fact that we wanted ABS and Speed Control, two things that weren't on any lot we visited. There were a couple of other things, like the Selectrac, and "Taupe" interior. All of the Patriot Blue Lib's that we saw had the Charcoal interior, which we didn't like too much. Anyway, few more weeks till delivery, so I can hold out a little longer.
...and it's great so far. As far as MPG goes I've filled up twice and am getting around 18.5 but I do a lot of highway driving on interstates between work and home. As far as accessories go if you want things that actually fit right now your best bet is the dealer. I picked up a molded cargo mat and had the dealer install a class III trailer hitch and they look great... next thing is the fog lamps since mine didn't come with 'em.
I ordered mine may 1st before any liberty was even on a dealer lot. my order was for a limited with mostly all the options except tow & cd changer. since the moonroof & ABS were restricted, my dealer tagged my name to an order they had placed with similar equipment (but had no ABS or Side Air bags). that liberty has been at the dealer since the 4th of july week. on may 22, the dealer removed the moonroof from my order & it went through then. I should get it within a few weeks.
as far as future factory orders go, I personally would not go that route now because a ton of libertys will be showing up on dealer lots within the next month or 2 with the options most people want. If you have access to multiple jeep dealers in your area you can find what you want now and even better by the end of august.
did you call the 800# at DC and note how many days it took the finished product to get on a rail car?? I called again today & still no rail car status. the cust svc rep said their data is a day old so if it ships today, they wont show it til tomorrow. I wonder if the lot is backlogged with liberty's waiting to get on rail cars?
"Product is the key to our future," Zetsche told factory workers at the recent dedication of the Toledo, Ohio, Jeep plant where the automaker's new Liberty sport-utility vehicle is built. "You know how important quality is for us. It is our No. 1 priority."
This is my personal experience about the purchase and evaluation of my new 2002 Jeep Liberty Sport 2WD. I hope my experience helps those who, like myself are very scrutinizing about their vehicle purchases.
Firstly, let me say that I am very pleased with my vehicle and all facets of the purchase. Also, the edmunds.com town hall and advice columns offered much priceless information. With that said, I'll go into detail.
Research:
Being a satisfied owner of a '97 Saturn SC2, I was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new VUE, which is scheduled for October. However, upon further review, I found the body style to be a little lacking in personality. It mostly looked like any other SUV, but some of its stylings leaned towards the Grand Cherokee.
With only 10 months left to pay on the Saturn, I decided to investigate other makes. I looked very hard at the Isuzu Rodeo, Mitsu Montero Sport, Chevy Blazer and Kia Sportage. The Sportage was first to be cut because of its toy-like, boxy body and V4 engine. Next was the Blazer due to its uninspired body and rather clumsy feel. It wasn't until I began intensely scrutinizing the Rodeo and Montero Sport when I heard about the Jeep Liberty. I was doing all my research on Carpoint at the time a friend suggested I check out autos.yahoo.com. There was a huge write up on the Liberty and really piqued my interest. After reading several highly glowing, professional reviews on Carpoint, I found this place (Edmunds) through another friend and read the reviews, much like you're doing now. I heard almost nothing but praises. That almost sold me immediately but the Rodeo and Montero Sport have some pretty good incentives. But even with the rebates and financing, it would have come out to about the same price as the Liberty. So, it came down to which one had the most personality and functionality. The Rodeo and Montero Sport are (i believe) built on a truck frame, which contributes to its boxy body style and probably equally rough ride. The Liberty however has a unibody frame. That didn't mean much to me until I took a test drive and was impressed with the Liberty's quietness, power and feel. Plus, it had personality to spare! I knew it was the right SUV for me.
Pricing:
I'm a salesman myself and know what it means to sell products for a living and not a killing. With this in mind, I I followed Philip Reed's advice in the edmunds column about blast fax car buying: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/45107/article.html
I got invoice pricing off of the pricing section of the website and then proceeded to fax the general manager of 30 different Jeep dealers across the tri-state area, asking them for their best price on a 2002 Liberty Sport 2WD with Cruise and CD. Only 4 responded - which is what I expected. What I didn't expect was a mom and pop dealer (Cook Jeep, Little Rock AR) to offer aggressive pricing. I was also suprised that Landers Jeep (also in Little Rock, and the largest Jeep dealer in the US) did not respond. I placed a quick call with the salesperson (Steve Simpkins) and he responded within the hour. His pricing wasn't the lowest, but he had a Black Liberty with all the options (Cruise, CD, Sunscreen, Fog Lamps, and Fold away mirrors) for $20,500, which is $1000 off MSRP and approx $500 above invoice. Normally, I like to do buisiness with small, mom and pop folks because the company I work for is small as well. So, it all came down to how much the two dealers would offer for my trade, because I wanted to keep my payments no more than $150 higher than what I was paying now ($235).
Trade In:
The hood of my SC2 had a fist sized dent from an accident I was involved in last winter, but otherwise the vehicle was pretty sound, with 74K and 10 months left to pay (approx $2500). Cook offered me $4800 sight unseen. Landers offered me 48 as well, but then called me back saying he could get it to $5,000. That closed the deal. I would be getting the Liberty for $18,300 excluding tax (which I will have to pay out of pocket when I register the plate in Tennessee). All that was left was financing.
Financing:
I shopped the rate around. DC wasnt offering any incentives on the Liberty. My local bank offered 8% with a $100 fee. After some research, I came across peoplefirst.com. They offered me 6.94% for 60 mos with no fees. The check came the next day and that really took the negociating teeth out of the dealership when it came time to go see the F&I man. I liked People First so much that I requested a second check to refinance my wife's car at 7.45% versus the 13.5 she was paying.
The Dealership:
I was very impressed with Landers Jeep and my salesman Steve Simpkins. It was a pressure-free, no haggle experience that I would recommend to anyone.
The Vehicle:
The first thing you'll notice about the Liberty (besides its great looks) is its solid feel. The steel chassis really feels tight and well made. That makes for a very quiet ride. When folks say that the ride compares to a Mercedes, I'm very persuaded to believe them. The doors close with a satisfying slam. The cargo bay is spacious. It's a slight bummer that the backseat doesnt fold completely flat, but its not a big deal. Also, the rear window noise isn't a big deal either. AC is nice and cold. CD player is nice with easy to reach volume and buttons (I wasn't impressed with the Infinity speakers, so went with the factory system).
The V6 powerplant is nimble and growls on the road. Gas mileage is adequate. In short, this is a great SUV - the only nitpicky thing is the door handle on the driver side. It rubs against my bony knees when I'm driving...but that's almost too minor to mention. I highly recommend the Liberty to anyone searching for a 'true' SUV. I also recommend Landers Jeep and PeopleFirst.com. I hope that your buying experience was as painless and (dare I say it...FUN?) as mine. I repeatedly comment to my wife that the Jeep Liberty was made for me, and its true. I think it was made for my wife too, she keeps stealing it before I can leave for work.
That's exactly how I got the best price on my Liberty order. I received an offer of $500 over invoice, but their invoice included a $435 advertising fee that wouldnt budge. The dealer I purchased from gave me $750 over invoice, no questions asked and no hidden fees. I emailed about 12 dealerships, and visited 5 of them.
That's how I got my cherokee as well: $395 over invoice plus $200 ad fee. I emailed 8 or so and only got responses from 2. However, I also did the same for a Rav4 and 5 out of the 6 responsed with the same price: the Toyota no-haggle price that they've started here in Canada.
no update on the railcar status for my order. however rep said today it shipped on the 21st but cant be sure. this may be one area where we just wont know because of system updates NOT being timely. and she said that the rail car field may or may not be entered in the system. who knows. I called my dealer and their experience on delivery from the time they know it is produced is around 2 weeks.
Same here, they keep telling me it shipped on the 21st, but dont have any other info. Think they're just being lazy and telling everyone that calls it shipped on the 21st? My rail arrival is in Twin Oaks, PA. Is that where yours is getting trucked from?
Hi everyone! I'm a 19 year old female going to college and looking to buy a Patriot Blue 4x4 Jeep Liberty Sport with a tow package and ABS. My big concern is pricing and financing. I don't have my own credit, so I will be getting my dad to co-sign for me. I want to put $8000 down and finance for 5 years. How much are dealers willing to deal on the Liberty right now? Are they pretty firm on the price? This will be my first brand new vehicle (I own a Grand AM now) and I want a positive buying experience. Another thing I'm wondering, although it's stupid question, but speed control is cruise control, right? And, with the towing package, about what size ski boat would I be able to haul? Could I haul twin jet skis behind my Liberty? Thank you so much for the help! ~Kim
Comments
Aside from getting a good chuckle from the above post, the author has done a very good job of hitting the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards To All,
02.
Conservation of fuel oil is a joke. If it was an issue, how come the liberals haven't clamped down on all of us gas hogging SUV owners like they did with cars. If you ask me it was a conspiracy to allow the marketplace/economy to accelerate via the truck/suv market. How else can you explain the explosion, and targeting of women, with the SUV. I sure don't rember, and am old enough too, many women tooling aroung in truck/SUV's in the early 80's. Just today I saw a grandma in downtown San Diego tooling around in a Ranger (wierd). In fact I remeber when you used to be able to get a truck for half the price of a car!
I'm sure some day we'll have decent electric cars; but, the Toyota and Honda electrics look like a crushed soda can waiting to be crushed.
CLEAR!!!
Mine involves a similar procedure, with one set of objectives in a group called "Factors discovered only after test driving" (for example, with the Liberty I felt like my face was right up against the windshield). This method makes sense because you can take all of your OWN factors that matter. I also include things like "more than one dealer in the area" since around here there are big service problems with one particular dealer whose name is on more than one franchise.
For me, it was the Ford Escape that won.
You must be in Finance, Management, or Marketing Research. Maybe we should suggest to Edmunds that they put an analysis like this out on their site! Makes things so much clearer with a complicated decision like this.
I found it humorous that you placed a list of vehicles together that do not even compare in likeness much less safety. While safety is a HIGH consideration on many peoples list at least give the Liberty a chance prior to stigmatizing it by your less then fair statement. “ Why should I buy another poor/marginal DG product (such as Jeep Liberty) if there are better cars available? “ as you have noted it has not been tested as of yet and there isn’t any reason to believe that it will be a less then stellar outcome. In Jeep’s defense I suggest you go and look at the safety ratings of my previous vehicle before I bought my Liberty, a Jeep Wrangler. Take note it is BETTER then many SUV’s out there .and this a softtop vehicle to boot. Regardless, my point is simple ..wait until the test are presented prior to making ill statements about a vehicle that in my opinion is a great purchase. If Safety is the ulitmate concern....buy a BMW X5. (grin)
Ryan
Probably all cars are safer now than they were 25 years ago, and most people didn't give a hoot then.
Give us more features, more power, and less cost.
I was hoping for something more in the Escape/Tribute size range, not something that weighs more than a Grand Cherokee. Many current Cherokee owners I know are less than thrilled with
the new Liberty. But hey, this is America. We can buy whatever we want. But who is the first to complain when gas prices exceed $2.00/gal.......
I am cutting out several opportunities for the dealer to make money as there will be no trade, no financing as I will use our personal credit union and I do not intend on buying a dealer's inflated extended warranty. If my calculations are correct, it appears that there is a difference of $1,762 between invoice and MSRP on this particular specced vehicle. So far in the MD area, the best offer has been $1,125 off MSRP. If in fact the holdback is 3%, that accounts for another $741 in profit for the dealer or total profit of $1378. As this would be a factory order and the dealer would not have to floor plan this vehicle, my thought is that I should negotiate this a bit harder.
Am I correct on the dealer holdback percentage?
Harlan
Drove the Rav4(to small)and didn't care for it at all.
Looked at the Outback but it reminded me too much of the Station Wagons I drove in 1964/65/67. Didn't even want to go beyond that point.
Drove the Liberty and like most everything about it except the windshield seemed to me a little closer to my face than any of the others I drove. Didn't particularly care for the lower mileage.
The main reasons I ruled it out was cost and the fact that with 2WD it is driven by the rear wheels(not good for our winters here)and the comparison costs with the others I did like.
Drove the Mazda Tribute and also like most everything about it. It rode more like a truck than all of the others. Thought maybe it was just that particular SUV so asked to drive a different one. Same thing. Interior much cheaper looking than the Liberty and not as many wheel components.
Drove the Ford Escape. Liked the way it drove and handled. Much better ride and handling than the Tribute with either the 2WD or 4WD. Also liked the availability of the options I wanted without any order hold ups. Also found out I could use the Ford Motor X-Plan to purchase it.
All things considered
Liberty:
No 2 wheel Front Drive
A problem getting ABS
A problem getting a Power Moonroof
Several thousand dollars more than I could purchase the Escape.
Lower mileage
Really like the Liberty but I couldn't justify getting a Rear Drive car. I didn't want to spend the kind of money wanted for the 4WD.
Ordered a 2002 Escape XLT with the Premium Package
This package only has 3 Options.
1)Side Step Bars
2)Side Air Bags
3)Mach Audio System.
Added the Side Bars and that completed the order.
Delivered price using the X-Plan came out to be
$22,194. The Liberty as close as I could compare them using the Edmunds TMV price was about $2800 more for the Liberty and that was without the Power Moonroof.
The Liberty has an available full time four wheel drive system.
People over at the Escape board are complaining of lousy gas mileage, as low as 14mpg.
The Liberty is heavy because it is built heavy-duty. Examples being forged steel lower control arms, heavy crossbeams to strengthen the roof, etc.(think safety)
Moonroofs arent a problem now, mine is already built and on it's way, ordered June 19.
Pricing is about equal, unless you are lucky enough to qualify for a pricing plan. DC has a friends and family plan, but it's not available on the Liberty or PT Cruiser yet.
Escape has had reliability issues, 5 recalls in the first model year. Still many people are calling for more. Some complain of gas smell inside the vehicle. I personally work with a woman who has an Escape. At 3000 miles it's been in the shop twice, keeps stalling.
I too fell in love with the Escape when it came out. After all the issues it has, coupled with the fact that it's car based, I decided on the Liberty. If im going to be driving an SUV, i might as well have the durability/capability to go along with it.
Tony
I follow the msg boards, read the reviews. I know that C&Driver gave it top ratings, but I follow my own experiences, and the Liberty just had all that I wanted. Hopefully Ford will get it right next time, because they do make a pretty good product. I have a 98 Ford Taurus SE that is just an awesome vehicle (knocking on wood). No problems at all, with 66k on the odo. Good luck with your TriScape, I'll stick with my Liberty.
Just spoke to the Dealership, 3 to 4 more weeks till delivery of our Patriot Blue Sport, ABS, SelecTrac, Foglamps, Deep Tint and speed control. Got the VIN, and waiting approval of loan from Credit Union. Keep on Truckin'
-mad
BTW tony, your's is shipped? what date was it shipped? I guess I can judge how long it takes to ship by when you get yours. my ship date as of fri the 20th was still 7/23 and the rep said it was in framing stage fri. we'll see. still think there is an ABS problem.
You will need the VIN number
Note: your VON (8 digit Vehicle Order Number) will also work..
Call 1-800-992-1997 (1-800-465-2001 from Canada).
Listen to the automated operator then press 2 - note: sometimes 3. (To continue.)
Hold for the next available agent.
Do not enter an extension number, wait on the line (it will sound dead for a while).
When Prompted press 1. (you are a customer.)
When Prompted press 3. (customer service issues.)
Press 3 Again. (customer service issues.)
If you have a VIN
If you have a VIN, press 1 here and provide the number
If you do not yet have a VIN, you can try using the 8 digit VON.
VON only - Press 3 = Home telephone number
Enter your 10 digit home telephone number. (No 1 before the area code.)
Press 1 (If telephone number reads back to you correctly.)
Wait on the line for a customer service representative.
When they pick up tell them you want to check on the status of a new vehicle order.
If you plan to make several calls as the truck order progresses:
On your second call, ask them for your File Number, they create it after you call the first time. Using this number will speed things up on subsequent calls.
ORDER STATUS CODES
Not Scheduled yet
BB review by fleet department
BD special equipment processing
BE edit error
BG passed edit n/a for schedule
BGL edit ok parts unavailable
BX passed edit available for schedule
Scheduled:
C sub firm
D firm schedule - dealer has allocation and all parts available
D1 gateline schedule - scheduled to be built
Assembly Line:
E frame
F paint
G trim
Assembly Completed:
I built not ok'd
J built ok'd
JB shipped to body vendor
JE emission check
JS shipped to storage
KZ released by plant , invoiced
Shipping Status:
KZL released - not shipped
KZM first rail departure
KZN first rail arrival
KZO delayed/recieved
KZOA plant holds
KZOB zone/distribution holds
KZOC carrier delays
KZOD carrier holds
KZOE mis-shipped vehicle
KZOF show/test vehicle
KZOG damaged vehicle
KZOH all other reasons
KZT second rail departure
KZU second rail arrival
KZX delivered to dealer
KZY1 - major damage - must not be sold as new
KZY2 - major damage - vehicle sold at auction
ZA canceled
Just wondering where you got your info from on the fact that they aren't offering the EP on the Liberty. I've been to three dealerships and they have all been able to give me the EP. I sure hope you are wrong....cause if that's the case I will have to rethink my decision to get a Liberty.
Tony
Any help with the finance rates would be helpful...thanks
Tony
Just to give you an idea of the amount of savings you get with EP here's the invoice #'s I have. It's not a dramatic savings, but a couple thousand dollars is a couple thousand dollars! That's enough to pull me to the Liberty. Plus I love everything about it on the three test drives I've been on. Anyway, back to the subject.
FWP $22,888
MSRP $24,005
EP $21,546
1. Factory parts are tested on the vehicle for fit and things like wind noise/vibration
2. I've found that the factory parts hold up much longer as far as rust and fastening positions.
Also, you can probably get the dealer to warranty a factory add-on part if they're willing to. No factory part will void your warranty if it's installation damages something on the vehicle like an aftermarket will. I plan on buying about $1000 worth of factory add-ons in the next few weeks, I think it's worth it in the long run.
Mopar has a catalog of accessories just for the Liberty, ask your dealer for it.
Tony
congrats to all new liberty owners - keep on lovin em.
tony & I are racing to get ours - as of 7/23, my order with ABS was built & waiting for 1st rail shippment. KZL status. I did ask the rep I spoke to if her info was "real time". she said it's real time to the dist center computer and admitted, that there may be some difference u=in her info to what actually is going on.
I'm sure, like the http://www.xterrastore.com many LIBERTY parts sites will pop up to provide the cool stuff you might want. But it will probably be a while before there are enough LIBS in consumer's garages to be profitable.
Matt
I have also heard that if you want the off-road package, it's very rare to have one sitting on the lot. The dealers just dont think anyone would be interested in them. This included the Cherokees as well. Anyway should only be a couple more days, the last update I had they said it had shipped over the weekend!
Tony
Tony
-mad
As far as accessories go if you want things that actually fit right now your best bet is the dealer. I picked up a molded cargo mat and had the dealer install a class III trailer hitch and they look great... next thing is the fog lamps since mine didn't come with 'em.
as far as future factory orders go, I personally would not go that route now because a ton of libertys will be showing up on dealer lots within the next month or 2 with the options most people want. If you have access to multiple jeep dealers in your area you can find what you want now and even better by the end of august.
..."Interior much cheaper looking than the Liberty and not as many wheel components."
Changing consumer perception critical to Zetsche's program
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Firstly, let me say that I am very pleased with my vehicle and all facets of the purchase. Also, the edmunds.com town hall and advice columns offered much priceless information. With that said, I'll go into detail.
Research:
Being a satisfied owner of a '97 Saturn SC2, I was eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new VUE, which is scheduled for October. However, upon further review, I found the body style to be a little lacking in personality. It mostly looked like any other SUV, but some of its stylings leaned towards the Grand Cherokee.
With only 10 months left to pay on the Saturn, I decided to investigate other makes. I looked very hard at the Isuzu Rodeo, Mitsu Montero Sport, Chevy Blazer and Kia Sportage. The Sportage was first to be cut because of its toy-like, boxy body and V4 engine. Next was the Blazer due to its uninspired body and rather clumsy feel. It wasn't until I began intensely scrutinizing the Rodeo and Montero Sport when I heard about the Jeep Liberty. I was doing all my research on Carpoint at the time a friend suggested I check out autos.yahoo.com. There was a huge write up on the Liberty and really piqued my interest. After reading several highly glowing, professional reviews on Carpoint, I found this place (Edmunds) through another friend and read the reviews, much like you're doing now. I heard almost nothing but praises. That almost sold me immediately but the Rodeo and Montero Sport have some pretty good incentives. But even with the rebates and financing, it would have come out to about the same price as the Liberty. So, it came down to which one had the most personality and functionality. The Rodeo and Montero Sport are (i believe) built on a truck frame, which contributes to its boxy body style and probably equally rough ride. The Liberty however has a unibody frame. That didn't mean much to me until I took a test drive and was impressed with the Liberty's quietness, power and feel. Plus, it had personality to spare! I knew it was the right SUV for me.
Pricing:
I'm a salesman myself and know what it means to sell products for a living and not a killing. With this in mind, I I followed Philip Reed's advice in the edmunds column about blast fax car buying: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/45107/article.html
I got invoice pricing off of the pricing section of the website and then proceeded to fax the general manager of 30 different Jeep dealers across the tri-state area, asking them for their best price on a 2002 Liberty Sport 2WD with Cruise and CD. Only 4 responded - which is what I expected. What I didn't expect was a mom and pop dealer (Cook Jeep, Little Rock AR) to offer aggressive pricing. I was also suprised that Landers Jeep (also in Little Rock, and the largest Jeep dealer in the US) did not respond. I placed a quick call with the salesperson (Steve Simpkins) and he responded within the hour. His pricing wasn't the lowest, but he had a Black Liberty with all the options (Cruise, CD, Sunscreen, Fog Lamps, and Fold away mirrors) for $20,500, which is $1000 off MSRP and approx $500 above invoice. Normally, I like to do buisiness with small, mom and pop folks because the company I work for is small as well. So, it all came down to how much the two dealers would offer for my trade, because I wanted to keep my payments no more than $150 higher than what I was paying now ($235).
Trade In:
The hood of my SC2 had a fist sized dent from an accident I was involved in last winter, but otherwise the vehicle was pretty sound, with 74K and 10 months left to pay (approx $2500). Cook offered me $4800 sight unseen. Landers offered me 48 as well, but then called me back saying he could get it to $5,000. That closed the deal. I would be getting the Liberty for $18,300 excluding tax (which I will have to pay out of pocket when I register the plate in Tennessee). All that was left was financing.
Financing:
I shopped the rate around. DC wasnt offering any incentives on the Liberty. My local bank offered 8% with a $100 fee. After some research, I came across peoplefirst.com. They offered me 6.94% for 60 mos with no fees. The check came the next day and that really took the negociating teeth out of the dealership when it came time to go see the F&I man. I liked People First so much that I requested a second check to refinance my wife's car at 7.45% versus the 13.5 she was paying.
The Dealership:
I was very impressed with Landers Jeep and my salesman Steve Simpkins. It was a pressure-free, no haggle experience that I would recommend to anyone.
The Vehicle:
The first thing you'll notice about the Liberty (besides its great looks) is its solid feel. The steel chassis really feels tight and well made. That makes for a very quiet ride. When folks say that the ride compares to a Mercedes, I'm very persuaded to believe them. The doors close with a satisfying slam. The cargo bay is spacious. It's a slight bummer that the backseat doesnt fold completely flat, but its not a big deal. Also, the rear window noise isn't a big deal either. AC is nice and cold. CD player is nice with easy to reach volume and buttons (I wasn't impressed with the Infinity speakers, so went with the factory system).
The V6 powerplant is nimble and growls on the road. Gas mileage is adequate. In short, this is a great SUV - the only nitpicky thing is the door handle on the driver side. It rubs against my bony knees when I'm driving...but that's almost too minor to mention. I highly recommend the Liberty to anyone searching for a 'true' SUV. I also recommend Landers Jeep and PeopleFirst.com. I hope that your buying experience was as painless and (dare I say it...FUN?) as mine. I repeatedly comment to my wife that the Jeep Liberty was made for me, and its true. I think it was made for my wife too, she keeps stealing it before I can leave for work.
Sounds like you get a written quote that you were able to wave in front of other salespeople with your faxes anyway.
Congrats on the new ride.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Tony
Tony
~Kim