The problem is that the Liberty has been the only SUV that they tested to roll over.
The BMW X5 would probably do very well on the test in comparison, especially the 4.6 with the 20" tire setup.
The bumber crash tests shows the folly of mounting the spare on the rear to increase interior space. Someone sitting in the back seat can easily be injured by flying debris.
You just gotta be doubly careful when backing up in a Liberty.
Dewumpy you are right about the roll-over crap.drive like a nut and you pay the price,I also think this magazine is looking to hype the story and sell more copies.
Rear tire we knew when you look at carso while I have no intentions of backing into something I have tow package and I put extended 18in.bar on back it sticks out a little past tire.
Gypsy, I am happy for you. Saturday will be a great day for you. Make sure you look over your vehicle well before you accept delivery.
As for the tests, they are so inaccurate as to be ignored. I want to know exactly what speeds, how many RPMS, what braking forces etc. The driver stated he thought he was homefree so its possible he gunned it to get a better time (Its about the times!) and the Liberty had been running so well he may have pushed the limits. How many of you EVER have made seven evasive manuevers at 40 MPH? And what were these conditions (Speed, RPMS etc) vs what other comparable SUV's that they did not lift and roll? If this driver thought he had it nailed, and never felt comfortable in the other vehicles, maybe he was exceeding what had been done before? If he had the Liberty at 43, and never got another comparable SUV up beyond 37 0r 38 at the same point...this could explain a lot.
And I saw the Liberty last night on the news in its back up and hit a wall test. It was moving at a decent speed, and ALL THE GLASS WENT OUTWARD! Yes it may be expensive, but as the DC rep stated, safety first ladies and gentlemen. There was nothing flying inside the Liberty, and for me that made it worthwhile, since my passengers need to be safe first.
There's no reason why these vehicles shouldn't have decent bumpers, especially those with a spare tire hang off the rear. After all, what's the point of even having a bumper, if it's useless.
Everyone keeps mentioning that you need to be careful when backing up. Well, what if you are rearended? I don't see a difference here. Additionally, to the poster that mentioned the glass flew outward, maybe thats a function of the momentum of the vehicle, and if the pole were rammed at the car instead, the glass might have flown backward. Regardless, the rollover report and the crash test are making me second guess my decision to order, but to each his own.
It's so stupid to have a thin stamped sheet metal and plastic bumper on a vehicle that is supposed to be "tough" or any vehicle for that matter. I took off the front bumper on my cherokee to add some tow hooks and there is no way that thing would stand up to a collision of any type without the force being transfered directly to the unibody. I'm going to be adding a bumper eventually that will hopefully remove that problem. Same with the rear.
There's nothing better than having a rear wheel installed next to the bumper. To me, that's the BEST bumper to have for additional safety. Who cares what the damage cost is?! If someone is going to hit me from the rear, he won't be traveling 5 mph. You can bet on it!
It would not be my first choice. As the pole bash test demonstrates, the spare transmits the force into the rear hatch and into the cargo area, breaking up everything as it goes.
With a properly designed rear bumper, the force transfers into the frame, body and crumple zones, leading to much less damage and chance of injury,
From what I understand, Ford designed the internal spare in the Escape to act as additional protection in case of a rear end collision. It's one of the smarter things in the Escape.
If you are rear ended, it will not be with a pole or 6 foot tall wall (unless it's a trailer truck, in which case you have much bigger problems.) It will most likely be with a CAR or SUV with a front bumper that will hit the BACK BUMPER at the BACK BUMPER height, not the middle of the spare tire. If you are rear ended by something as big as a Suburban or similar behemoth on the road, regardless of what you drive, it will cost lots to repair (how many of us have seen little sedans practically run over by Suburbans? In the end, replacing the entire trunk and lighting etc. can't be cheap either.) The point: the insurance industry tests are not accurate tests of what happens in actual everyday bumper to bumper accidents.
Great point dewumpy. Remember, the Liberty is higher than the standard car, so most likely if the horrible occurance that your vehicle is involved in a rear accident with lower riding vehicle, that it will hit the bumper and not the tire. If a Suburban hits your from behind, then I guess the truck is toast. As for the Escape, switch to that car based suv and chance it with the recalls. Good luck on your decision.
My wife was pushing to get the Liberty because she thought it was "cute". I showed her the AutoWeek test on the Liberty rollover and the tipping up on two-wheels problem they found after the rollover test, now she isn't interested in it any more. This weekend we're going to look at the Escape and Mazda Tribute.
Turns out the front and rear track width of the Escape is wider than the Liberty even though the Escape is not nearly as tall than the Liberty, making it sort of tall and tippy looking. The Escape also has an independent rear suspension that I think would add a lot more control to the handling.
What about driving vehicles under a low barrier; the high vehicles would hit the barrier and sustain the most damage while the low ones would probably get by with only a scrape? Of course I'm just guessing at the results. "HAPPY DECEMBER"
I took delivery of my Liberty Limited Edition... 27G- sunroof- abs-heated seat- stone white- high contrast interior. It is beautiful. When I drove the Liberty off the lot there was only 1 mile on it. Well.. the weather is gorgeous here so I must go take advantage of it.
Been reading a lot about the roll over test, and quite honestly I could care less. Both sides of the argument (not an argument - I guess an opinion about the test) have merits, but personally it hasn't changed my feelings for my Liberty. From day one I realized that my vehicle was a heavy and tall...TRUCK - not a car. I drive slower and a bit more cautiously than I did in my last car and I like the change - not always feeling like I have to be first, get around this guy, etc. Anyhoo, I really feel that if people drive the vehicle (any vehicle, for that matter) with it's weight, intended purpose, etc. in mind, all is well. I know, I know, what about an emergency manuever on the highway, etc. ? Whatever. If you take joys, desires, and wants out of your life to minimize every bit of risk, so be it - not me. Oh yeah to JT98 - not considering the Liberty because of AutoWeek - ? Please drive both back to back. As soon as I shut the door of the Escape I knew - same old light, cheap feel. I will say I liked the looks and engine, but it didn't compare to the Liberty IMHO. Not meant to sound rude, just an opinion.
Hi. I'm looking seriously at a Liberty to replace our '86 Cherokee. I looked at the roll over thing and haven't changed my mind. After over 15 years and 262,240 kilometres, that Cherokee has never been in a mishap and all four wheels have remained firmly on the ground. I have had three highway close calls in that time and each time the Jeepster side-stepped out of harm's way with aplomb. Two things that have always worked for me: 1. Remembering its a Jeep; not a Camry or 'Vette. 2. Repeating over and over to myself: "Shiny side up, dull side down." as I drive.
I think you guys are paranoid about AutoWeeks report. They are not a credible source, especially when testing SUVs. Let the NHTSA do the testing. Afterall, they are the true watchdogs.
Consumer Report, AutoWeeks, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and etc are "proprangda" media source. Their only objective is to sell subscriptions. Period!!
hvan3: I've been told by other edmunds posters that the US Fed government's test for rollovers is nearly a static test (just slowly elevating one side of a vehicle to see where the tip point is), not a dynamic one, so it is not very informative.
Recently bought a Liberty Sport and really like it. Paid about invoice. Vehicle had about 78 miles at purchase. Does anyone think I should have gotten a lower price or is 78 miles no big deal? You never know how folks drove it during test drives.
I think that if you back up into something not moving, you deserve to pay a little bit of a price. If you're rearended then you're not going to be paying for it anyways. And if just the windows and the windshield wiper break, you should be releaved that ws all. It could've messed up the frame of the suv or pushed the back into the rear seats. The Liberty still seems safe to me and the rolloveer rating doesn't bother me either. I'm still going to drive my Liberty like an suv not a car!
who's at fault, or who pays for minor front or rear end collisions. My point is bumpers should protect in in slow-speed collisions; and they don't—at least for SUVs.
I think SUV bumpers should be at least as effective as those required for cars. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find having to go to the body shop, even for a small repair to be a real hassle. If bumpers truly protected against minor collisions, these body shop visits would be unnecessary.
is nearly a static test (just slowly elevating one side of a vehicle to see where the tip point is), not a dynamic one, so it is not very informative
Isn't that a little more objective and neutral than a test that includes all the uncontrollable variables introduced with a human driver behind the wheel?
Yes, the government test is more subjective and neutral, as you say. But it is limited in the results derived from it. While providing one key element about rollover factors, it does not give a whole lot of real world usage info (for example, the way the tires and suspension react in emergency situations) that human buyers / drivers might believe it does. I, for one, originally thought Uncle Sam did dynamic tests for rollover. Now I understand how impractical that would be.
I don't think one magazine's test results are the be-all and end-all, either. But they do provide some info, and possibly (hopefully) will lead to further testing by others.
I miss the old-fasioned bumpers. I have suffered only one rear-end collision. A Honda ran into and under my CJ. In seperating the vehicles, I pulled nearly her entire front-end off. I did have to re-paint my bumber, but other than that, no worries. Now, as for my back, that is another story. Still, no regrets.
I drove an Xterra for over 1500 miles this past weekend. Although it did have a certain fun-factor, it was pretty painful to sit in after several hours. The front seat cushions seemed too short and there was little lumbar support. I am 6'3, but my wife (5'7) had similar complaints. How does the Liberty compare on long drives?
Even with the rough ride, it was still nice to look at, covered in road salt and muck. Only wish I could rent a Liberty. That is a real test drive.
Read this article about the Izuzu Trooper and Consumer Reports. I was surfing around on Edmunds and found it. All those people worried about the Liberty rollover being an issue for them might want to take a look at past history.
If you are that concerned about safety and the bumpers, don't buy an SUV. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't like the SUVs in general, what are you doing posting on a Liberty comments page?
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident.
If you are that concerned about safety and the bumpers, don't buy an SUV. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't like the SUVs in general, what are you doing posting on a Liberty comments page?
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident. That is what's important. If the insurance company has to pay more because I drive a car I like (and, consequently, I pay more for the insurance) that's my choice.
Does anyone know why, under the category of "DEALER HOLD BACK", it states: "No Dealer Hold back". Does this mean that there is no Dealer Hold back for the 2002 Jeep Liberty or does Edmund's not have that information to publish. Thanks to anyone that can answer this question while I am in the quest to purchase. [Typically there is a 3% dealer hold back on Jeeps].
I got my first recall notice in the mail today.....if anyone wants the details I posted it over in the problem area, as not to make anyone upset for posting in the wrong area :-) People around here seem to be really sensitve about that :-)
Regarding the topic of "Rollovers": This is an unofficial statistic and only an observation of mine over the past several years. I have been employed as a firefighter/paramedic [collectively] for the past 20 years. It is always interesting to see the statistics involving rollovers for various SUV's, as are posted by the various critics... Montero, Samauri, Broncho, Wrangler, etc have been chastised for potential roll over danger. First, I would say that it is very rare to see an SUV in a rollover accident [possibly due to it's weight]... Typically it's the common passenger car that you will find on it's roof when responding to a "rollover crash". Secondly, it is rare to see any type of significant injuries in a rollover crash ...most of the time the driver is already out of the auto and uninjured by the time help arrives, provided that you wear your seatbelts.
Just some onofficial information ...ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEATBELTS!
Hi All! I was just told that my ordered Liberty was built on November 29th and will arrive between December 16 and 20th. Patriot Blue Limited, loaded except for block and butt heaters. I also received a preliminary invoice and I saw two things that I don't know what they are. One, description "CHRYMDA", sales code Y99, for $20 wholesale, and the second, no description, but sales code GRP FDS, for $415. Any idea what these are?? Especially the $415 one? I am paying $300 over invoice, btw. Thanks everybody!!
What really matter is how well front and rear end collision perform in a crash test. Who cares how much they cost to repair a bumper at 5 mph test!! You guys are missing the point! The purpose of a "safe" bumper is to protect the occupants.
If you're stupid enough to back into a hole, you deserve to foot the bill! Period!
Oh, I rather be driving an Explorer/Liberty and be rear ended by someone, then driving a Honda Civic/S2000 and be rear ended by an SUV. I feel lot safer in a SUV.
Hi, I posted the problem with my heater selector. switch earlier. #153 on the problems board. I just wanted to say that I bought the molded slash guards for the Liberty. I think it was a good buy. I installed them myself in about one hour. Just keep in mind when doing this yourself, you might have to take the back wheels off to drill some holes to mount the splash guards. No big deal. I lifted the suv under the rear differential and killed two birds with one stone. I also bought the slush mats for the floors. I tried to use some after market floor mats but it was kind of a pain getting anything close to fit good. The factory slush mats fit great and look kind of cool too. -Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!
I got my recall notice yesterday in the mail. It was pertaining to the knee bloker panel under the steering wheel. It said that some of them were miss installed and could fall off. I believe I remember reading about this in a magazine where one fell off during their tests. Still, I don't think this is a big concern. Mine seems to be solid, in fact I checked that part out before I bought my Liberty so no worries here.
The reason you need better bumpers to limit the amount of damage done is to keep insurance costs down. When Insurance companies find out the risk they take on by insuring a vehicle likely to have a bill in the thousands for a simple fender bender, they jack up the costs. Everybody who has one of these weak, tin foil bumpers should worry because you will pay for it in the end. Look at the Rav 4. The same thing happened when they tested it last year.
I took my bumper off on my Cherokee (I'm guessing there is little difference in the Liberty bumper) and it's just stamped hollow sheet metal with two styrofoam filled end caps. It's useless and I can lift the whole thing with one hand. I'm going to replace it with something steel as soon as it becomes fiscally possible. Same thing with the rear.
Crumple zones are all well and good for major collisions but I don't want possible frame damage on a 5 or 10mph crash. I just wish they would implement some standards that there should be no (or only cosmetic) damage at a 5mph collision on the bumpers. Otherwise, why even have them?
With a good steel bumper in the front and back, attached with reinforcing brackets to the rest of the vehicle, I'll feel pretty safe.
I care... I don't like having to pay higher insurance premiums because my vehicle, in the minds of insurance companies, shows to be more expensive to repair, according to their statistics. I don't like having to visit the body shop to repair a 3 mph collision.
If the bumpers protect the vehicle, then the occupants will also be protected.
vin_weasel: "Everybody who has one of these weak, tin foil bumpers should worry because you will pay for it in the end. Look at the Rav 4. The same thing happened when they tested it last year."
I didn't like the results of the RAV test; somehow, though, my '01 RAV insurance rates are reasonable (a very relative term for anyone insured in NJ).
Still, I'd like strong bumpers. Apparently some manufacturers have gotten away from that idea (?!).
In the end (ahem), as long as the occupants are protected via well thought-out crush zones, etc, I guess I can 'live' with it.
I negotiated the price of a 2002 Jeep Liberty for my mother this past weekend (12/1/01). The $415 you are referring to is advertising fees. According to Edmunds a reasonable advertising fee is $200 or below. The $20 you saw is the fee for Daimler/Chrysler Loyalty Mailing. In other words those discount service coupons they mail you are not free. Was there an $8 fee on your invoice? If yes, that is a charge for 5 gallons of "additional gas." I don't know anywhere in the US where you pay $8 for 5 gallons of gas, but I live in MD, where it is $1.09/gal, so that seemed outrageous to me!
My mother bought a Steel Blue 4x4 Limited w/ sunroof, tinted windows, ABS and the other standard features for $230 BELOW invoice, plus taxes and tags. Yes, I said $230 below invoice. We negotiated with the Sales Manager. He was very nice and even showed us the invoice.
<<The reason you need better bumpers to limit the amount of damage done is to keep insurance costs down.>>
Correct me if I"m wrong, but doesn't it cost more to insure SUVs anyway...especially off-roading SUVs?
As I said before, if the driver is stupid enough to back into a pole they deserve to foot the bill. An appropriate test methodology would have been bumper to bumper crash test at 5 mph, not bumper to pole.
The high cost of the Liberty repair was due to the spare tire at the rear.
By the way, I do not own an SUV. I"m always suspicous about these "propaganda" news medias, especially with the rollover test conducted by AutoWeek.
You're quite right about the spare tire into pole causing a higher amount of damage. Bumper to bumper is a much better way of testing.
The way I see it, the only argument for having the crumple bumpers is to try to save people vs trying to save damage to the vehicle in low speed collisions. If the bumpers that crumple at low speeds save money to the health care system by keeping people from getting whiplash and other assorted injuries at the expense of automobile damage and cost then it makes sense if there is an offset to the human side (ie less money is spent fixing the vehicle than the person if they were to get hurt instead). However, at 5mph I'm pretty sure the human body can withstand that kind of jolt, especially with todays padded interiors (compared to the 50s) and seatbelts.
For a major collision I want my vehicle to collapse like a cheap folding table to save me but not in a low speed bump.
Thanks. Did your invoice also list the advertising fee as $415?
I could have maybe squeezed another $100 out of him but it was a pleasant experience buying this at this dealership versus some of my purchases in the past. After all, I am spending $26,000 so I don't worry about $100. However, your $230 BELOW invoice hurt! Out here in Seattle, Liberties are going like crazy and I don't think I could have gotten it for much less. Our gas is also about $1.57 per gallon, thanks to all the taxes.
Whoa everyone on the Liberty spare tire rear end pole damage etc.schtick. A while ago on this site I described a major rear end collision I unfortunately had in my new Liberty (had 1000 miles on it). I was rear ended by a Honda civic going 30 mph when I slowed for some deer. The tire is very HIGH up. The Honda hit the bumper and slid under the Liberty. Did some damage to the suspension and bumper. NO damage to rear door, tire, frame etc.Gas tank was hit but did not leak and held up nicely. The civic was in sad shape, Thank God the driver wasn't hurt. I would bet unless you are hit by another high up SUV rear end damage will be reasonable. By the way the car is repaired and drives like new.
I bought a Liberty Limited Edition still owe $21000 on it. Everyone loves the car but me. I just can't handle such a big car. Talked to the dealer - they wont take it back. Does anyone have any advice on what to do to get rid of it without losing more than $4000?
Hi, I haven't written lately. Just reading and being patient. My Liberty Lmt. 4x4 was to be built this week!!! Could someone tell me how long does this take? I have heard the plant will close down the last 2 wks of the month and I am wondering if it will come in before Christmas. OKAY, I hear some laughing out there! I really didn't want to take it until the end of the month anyway, but thought if it was in I would take sooner. I was just trying to avoid 2 car payments for January as I end my Camry lease but, I may just not be able to wait if it comes in sooner! Hey Gypsy congrats on your baby. Are you having fun? I cant wait to see my White one too. Do you have any pictures yet? Well, thanks for any info. Good night.
FYI - I heard on the news tonight that Chrylser is going to recall all Liberty's (around 130,000 vehicles) because of a problem with a slow deployment of the driver's side airbag.
Does the Liberty really have the fuel tank behind the rear axle? I thought all new cars these days had the fuel tank mounted in front of the rear axle where it is less vulnerable to rear end collisions and puncturing/leaking.
Comments
The problem is that the Liberty has been the only SUV that they tested to roll over.
The BMW X5 would probably do very well on the test in comparison, especially the 4.6 with the 20" tire setup.
The bumber crash tests shows the folly of mounting the spare on the rear to increase interior space. Someone sitting in the back seat can easily be injured by flying debris.
You just gotta be doubly careful when backing up in a Liberty.
Rear tire we knew when you look at carso while I have no intentions of backing into something I have tow package and I put extended 18in.bar on back it sticks out a little past tire.
As for the tests, they are so inaccurate as to be ignored. I want to know exactly what speeds, how many RPMS, what braking forces etc. The driver stated he thought he was homefree so its possible he gunned it to get a better time (Its about the times!) and the Liberty had been running so well he may have pushed the limits. How many of you EVER have made seven evasive manuevers at 40 MPH? And what were these conditions (Speed, RPMS etc) vs what other comparable SUV's that they did not lift and roll? If this driver thought he had it nailed, and never felt comfortable in the other vehicles, maybe he was exceeding what had been done before? If he had the Liberty at 43, and never got another comparable SUV up beyond 37 0r 38 at the same point...this could explain a lot.
And I saw the Liberty last night on the news in its back up and hit a wall test. It was moving at a decent speed, and ALL THE GLASS WENT OUTWARD! Yes it may be expensive, but as the DC rep stated, safety first ladies and gentlemen. There was nothing flying inside the Liberty, and for me that made it worthwhile, since my passengers need to be safe first.
Bob
Bob
As the pole bash test demonstrates, the spare transmits the force into the rear hatch and into the cargo area, breaking up everything as it goes.
With a properly designed rear bumper, the force transfers into the frame, body and crumple zones, leading to much less damage and chance of injury,
From what I understand, Ford designed the internal spare in the Escape to act as additional protection in case of a rear end collision. It's one of the smarter things in the Escape.
If you are rear ended, it will not be with a pole or 6 foot tall wall (unless it's a trailer truck, in which case you have much bigger problems.) It will most likely be with a CAR or SUV with a front bumper that will hit the BACK BUMPER at the BACK BUMPER height, not the middle of the spare tire. If you are rear ended by something as big as a Suburban or similar behemoth on the road, regardless of what you drive, it will cost lots to repair (how many of us have seen little sedans practically run over by Suburbans? In the end, replacing the entire trunk and lighting etc. can't be cheap either.) The point: the insurance industry tests are not accurate tests of what happens in actual everyday bumper to bumper accidents.
p.s. "Smart Ford" is an oxymoron.
Turns out the front and rear track width of the Escape is wider than the Liberty even though the Escape is not nearly as tall than the Liberty, making it sort of tall and tippy looking. The Escape also has an independent rear suspension that I think would add a lot more control to the handling.
---gypsy--
PS... spare tire cover did come on the vehicle.
1. Remembering its a Jeep; not a Camry or 'Vette.
2. Repeating over and over to myself: "Shiny side up, dull side down." as I drive.
Consumer Report, AutoWeeks, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and etc are "proprangda" media source. Their only objective is to sell subscriptions. Period!!
Matt
I think SUV bumpers should be at least as effective as those required for cars. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find having to go to the body shop, even for a small repair to be a real hassle. If bumpers truly protected against minor collisions, these body shop visits would be unnecessary.
Bob
is nearly a static test (just slowly elevating one side of a vehicle to see where the tip point is), not a dynamic one, so it is not very informative
Isn't that a little more objective and neutral than a test that includes all the uncontrollable variables introduced with a human driver behind the wheel?
tidester
Host
SUVs
I don't think one magazine's test results are the be-all and end-all, either. But they do provide some info, and possibly (hopefully) will lead to further testing by others.
--gypsy--
I drove an Xterra for over 1500 miles this past weekend. Although it did have a certain fun-factor, it was pretty painful to sit in after several hours. The front seat cushions seemed too short and there was little lumbar support. I am 6'3, but my wife (5'7) had similar complaints. How does the Liberty compare on long drives?
Even with the rough ride, it was still nice to look at, covered in road salt and muck. Only wish I could rent a Liberty. That is a real test drive.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/43825/article.html
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident.
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident. That is what's important. If the insurance company has to pay more because I drive a car I like (and, consequently, I pay more for the insurance) that's my choice.
Just some onofficial information ...ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEATBELTS!
I just don't like lousy bumpers, whether they're on a Liberty or any other vehicle.
Bob
If you're stupid enough to back into a hole, you deserve to foot the bill! Period!
Oh, I rather be driving an Explorer/Liberty and be rear ended by someone, then driving a Honda Civic/S2000 and be rear ended by an SUV. I feel lot safer in a SUV.
I posted the problem with my heater selector. switch earlier. #153 on the problems board.
I just wanted to say that I bought the molded slash guards for the Liberty. I think it was a good buy. I installed them myself in about one hour. Just keep in mind when doing this yourself, you might have to take the back wheels off to drill some holes to mount the splash guards. No big deal. I lifted the suv under the rear differential and killed two birds with one stone.
I also bought the slush mats for the floors. I tried to use some after market floor mats but it was kind of a pain getting anything close to fit good. The factory slush mats fit great and look kind of cool too.
-Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!
Matt
I took my bumper off on my Cherokee (I'm guessing there is little difference in the Liberty bumper) and it's just stamped hollow sheet metal with two styrofoam filled end caps. It's useless and I can lift the whole thing with one hand. I'm going to replace it with something steel as soon as it becomes fiscally possible. Same thing with the rear.
Crumple zones are all well and good for major collisions but I don't want possible frame damage on a 5 or 10mph crash. I just wish they would implement some standards that there should be no (or only cosmetic) damage at a 5mph collision on the bumpers. Otherwise, why even have them?
With a good steel bumper in the front and back, attached with reinforcing brackets to the rest of the vehicle, I'll feel pretty safe.
If the bumpers protect the vehicle, then the occupants will also be protected.
Bob
I didn't like the results of the RAV test; somehow, though, my '01 RAV insurance rates are reasonable (a very relative term for anyone insured in NJ).
Still, I'd like strong bumpers. Apparently some manufacturers have gotten away from that idea (?!).
In the end (ahem), as long as the occupants are protected via well thought-out crush zones, etc, I guess I can 'live' with it.
I negotiated the price of a 2002 Jeep Liberty for my mother this past weekend (12/1/01). The $415 you are referring to is advertising fees. According to Edmunds a reasonable advertising fee is $200 or below. The $20 you saw is the fee for Daimler/Chrysler Loyalty Mailing. In other words those discount service coupons they mail you are not free. Was there an $8 fee on your invoice? If yes, that is a charge for 5 gallons of "additional gas." I don't know anywhere in the US where you pay $8 for 5 gallons of gas, but I live in MD, where it is $1.09/gal, so that seemed outrageous to me!
My mother bought a Steel Blue 4x4 Limited w/ sunroof, tinted windows, ABS and the other standard features for $230 BELOW invoice, plus taxes and tags. Yes, I said $230 below invoice. We negotiated with the Sales Manager. He was very nice and even showed us the invoice.
Sticker: $25,500
Invoice: $24,290
Purchase Price: $24,060
Correct me if I"m wrong, but doesn't it cost more to insure SUVs anyway...especially off-roading SUVs?
As I said before, if the driver is stupid enough to back into a pole they deserve to foot the bill. An appropriate test methodology would have been bumper to bumper crash test at 5 mph, not bumper to pole.
The high cost of the Liberty repair was due to the spare tire at the rear.
By the way, I do not own an SUV. I"m always suspicous about these "propaganda" news medias, especially with the rollover test conducted by AutoWeek.
The way I see it, the only argument for having the crumple bumpers is to try to save people vs trying to save damage to the vehicle in low speed collisions. If the bumpers that crumple at low speeds save money to the health care system by keeping people from getting whiplash and other assorted injuries at the expense of automobile damage and cost then it makes sense if there is an offset to the human side (ie less money is spent fixing the vehicle than the person if they were to get hurt instead). However, at 5mph I'm pretty sure the human body can withstand that kind of jolt, especially with todays padded interiors (compared to the 50s) and seatbelts.
For a major collision I want my vehicle to collapse like a cheap folding table to save me but not in a low speed bump.
I could have maybe squeezed another $100 out of him but it was a pleasant experience buying this at this dealership versus some of my purchases in the past. After all, I am spending $26,000 so I don't worry about $100. However, your $230 BELOW invoice hurt! Out here in Seattle, Liberties are going like crazy and I don't think I could have gotten it for much less. Our gas is also about $1.57 per gallon, thanks to all the taxes.
Anyway, thanks for your info!
Cliff
You could try to put an ad in the paper but I'm afraid you will take a huge depreciation hit. It became used the minute you took it off the lot.
OKAY, I hear some laughing out there! I really didn't want to take it until the end of the month anyway, but thought if it was in I would take sooner. I was just trying to avoid 2 car payments for January as I end my Camry lease but, I may just not be able to wait if it comes in sooner!
Hey Gypsy congrats on your baby. Are you having fun? I cant wait to see my White one too. Do you have any pictures yet?
Well, thanks for any info. Good night.
http://www.detnews.com/2001/autosconsumer/0112/07/b01-360966.htm
fastdriver