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Comments
The problem is that the Liberty has been the only SUV that they tested to roll over.
The BMW X5 would probably do very well on the test in comparison, especially the 4.6 with the 20" tire setup.
The bumber crash tests shows the folly of mounting the spare on the rear to increase interior space. Someone sitting in the back seat can easily be injured by flying debris.
You just gotta be doubly careful when backing up in a Liberty.
Rear tire we knew when you look at carso while I have no intentions of backing into something I have tow package and I put extended 18in.bar on back it sticks out a little past tire.
As for the tests, they are so inaccurate as to be ignored. I want to know exactly what speeds, how many RPMS, what braking forces etc. The driver stated he thought he was homefree so its possible he gunned it to get a better time (Its about the times!) and the Liberty had been running so well he may have pushed the limits. How many of you EVER have made seven evasive manuevers at 40 MPH? And what were these conditions (Speed, RPMS etc) vs what other comparable SUV's that they did not lift and roll? If this driver thought he had it nailed, and never felt comfortable in the other vehicles, maybe he was exceeding what had been done before? If he had the Liberty at 43, and never got another comparable SUV up beyond 37 0r 38 at the same point...this could explain a lot.
And I saw the Liberty last night on the news in its back up and hit a wall test. It was moving at a decent speed, and ALL THE GLASS WENT OUTWARD! Yes it may be expensive, but as the DC rep stated, safety first ladies and gentlemen. There was nothing flying inside the Liberty, and for me that made it worthwhile, since my passengers need to be safe first.
Bob
Bob
As the pole bash test demonstrates, the spare transmits the force into the rear hatch and into the cargo area, breaking up everything as it goes.
With a properly designed rear bumper, the force transfers into the frame, body and crumple zones, leading to much less damage and chance of injury,
From what I understand, Ford designed the internal spare in the Escape to act as additional protection in case of a rear end collision. It's one of the smarter things in the Escape.
If you are rear ended, it will not be with a pole or 6 foot tall wall (unless it's a trailer truck, in which case you have much bigger problems.) It will most likely be with a CAR or SUV with a front bumper that will hit the BACK BUMPER at the BACK BUMPER height, not the middle of the spare tire. If you are rear ended by something as big as a Suburban or similar behemoth on the road, regardless of what you drive, it will cost lots to repair (how many of us have seen little sedans practically run over by Suburbans? In the end, replacing the entire trunk and lighting etc. can't be cheap either.) The point: the insurance industry tests are not accurate tests of what happens in actual everyday bumper to bumper accidents.
p.s. "Smart Ford" is an oxymoron.
Turns out the front and rear track width of the Escape is wider than the Liberty even though the Escape is not nearly as tall than the Liberty, making it sort of tall and tippy looking. The Escape also has an independent rear suspension that I think would add a lot more control to the handling.
---gypsy--
PS... spare tire cover did come on the vehicle.
1. Remembering its a Jeep; not a Camry or 'Vette.
2. Repeating over and over to myself: "Shiny side up, dull side down." as I drive.
Consumer Report, AutoWeeks, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and etc are "proprangda" media source. Their only objective is to sell subscriptions. Period!!
Matt
I think SUV bumpers should be at least as effective as those required for cars. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find having to go to the body shop, even for a small repair to be a real hassle. If bumpers truly protected against minor collisions, these body shop visits would be unnecessary.
Bob
is nearly a static test (just slowly elevating one side of a vehicle to see where the tip point is), not a dynamic one, so it is not very informative
Isn't that a little more objective and neutral than a test that includes all the uncontrollable variables introduced with a human driver behind the wheel?
tidester
Host
SUVs
I don't think one magazine's test results are the be-all and end-all, either. But they do provide some info, and possibly (hopefully) will lead to further testing by others.
--gypsy--
I drove an Xterra for over 1500 miles this past weekend. Although it did have a certain fun-factor, it was pretty painful to sit in after several hours. The front seat cushions seemed too short and there was little lumbar support. I am 6'3, but my wife (5'7) had similar complaints. How does the Liberty compare on long drives?
Even with the rough ride, it was still nice to look at, covered in road salt and muck. Only wish I could rent a Liberty. That is a real test drive.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/43825/article.html
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident.
I have a Liberty, love it, have been offroading in it (it handles great!) and it has had no recalls (can't say that about the Explorer or Escape!) I have put 7500 miles on it in 3 months and have had NO problems. I feel very secure in it, and think that, most importantly, if someone does hit me while I'm driving it, I'm likely to walk away from the accident. That is what's important. If the insurance company has to pay more because I drive a car I like (and, consequently, I pay more for the insurance) that's my choice.
Just some onofficial information ...ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEATBELTS!
I just don't like lousy bumpers, whether they're on a Liberty or any other vehicle.
Bob
If you're stupid enough to back into a hole, you deserve to foot the bill! Period!
Oh, I rather be driving an Explorer/Liberty and be rear ended by someone, then driving a Honda Civic/S2000 and be rear ended by an SUV. I feel lot safer in a SUV.
I posted the problem with my heater selector. switch earlier. #153 on the problems board.
I just wanted to say that I bought the molded slash guards for the Liberty. I think it was a good buy. I installed them myself in about one hour. Just keep in mind when doing this yourself, you might have to take the back wheels off to drill some holes to mount the splash guards. No big deal. I lifted the suv under the rear differential and killed two birds with one stone.
I also bought the slush mats for the floors. I tried to use some after market floor mats but it was kind of a pain getting anything close to fit good. The factory slush mats fit great and look kind of cool too.
-Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!
Matt
I took my bumper off on my Cherokee (I'm guessing there is little difference in the Liberty bumper) and it's just stamped hollow sheet metal with two styrofoam filled end caps. It's useless and I can lift the whole thing with one hand. I'm going to replace it with something steel as soon as it becomes fiscally possible. Same thing with the rear.
Crumple zones are all well and good for major collisions but I don't want possible frame damage on a 5 or 10mph crash. I just wish they would implement some standards that there should be no (or only cosmetic) damage at a 5mph collision on the bumpers. Otherwise, why even have them?
With a good steel bumper in the front and back, attached with reinforcing brackets to the rest of the vehicle, I'll feel pretty safe.
If the bumpers protect the vehicle, then the occupants will also be protected.
Bob
I didn't like the results of the RAV test; somehow, though, my '01 RAV insurance rates are reasonable (a very relative term for anyone insured in NJ).
Still, I'd like strong bumpers. Apparently some manufacturers have gotten away from that idea (?!).
In the end (ahem), as long as the occupants are protected via well thought-out crush zones, etc, I guess I can 'live' with it.
I negotiated the price of a 2002 Jeep Liberty for my mother this past weekend (12/1/01). The $415 you are referring to is advertising fees. According to Edmunds a reasonable advertising fee is $200 or below. The $20 you saw is the fee for Daimler/Chrysler Loyalty Mailing. In other words those discount service coupons they mail you are not free. Was there an $8 fee on your invoice? If yes, that is a charge for 5 gallons of "additional gas." I don't know anywhere in the US where you pay $8 for 5 gallons of gas, but I live in MD, where it is $1.09/gal, so that seemed outrageous to me!
My mother bought a Steel Blue 4x4 Limited w/ sunroof, tinted windows, ABS and the other standard features for $230 BELOW invoice, plus taxes and tags. Yes, I said $230 below invoice. We negotiated with the Sales Manager. He was very nice and even showed us the invoice.
Sticker: $25,500
Invoice: $24,290
Purchase Price: $24,060
Correct me if I"m wrong, but doesn't it cost more to insure SUVs anyway...especially off-roading SUVs?
As I said before, if the driver is stupid enough to back into a pole they deserve to foot the bill. An appropriate test methodology would have been bumper to bumper crash test at 5 mph, not bumper to pole.
The high cost of the Liberty repair was due to the spare tire at the rear.
By the way, I do not own an SUV. I"m always suspicous about these "propaganda" news medias, especially with the rollover test conducted by AutoWeek.
The way I see it, the only argument for having the crumple bumpers is to try to save people vs trying to save damage to the vehicle in low speed collisions. If the bumpers that crumple at low speeds save money to the health care system by keeping people from getting whiplash and other assorted injuries at the expense of automobile damage and cost then it makes sense if there is an offset to the human side (ie less money is spent fixing the vehicle than the person if they were to get hurt instead). However, at 5mph I'm pretty sure the human body can withstand that kind of jolt, especially with todays padded interiors (compared to the 50s) and seatbelts.
For a major collision I want my vehicle to collapse like a cheap folding table to save me but not in a low speed bump.
I could have maybe squeezed another $100 out of him but it was a pleasant experience buying this at this dealership versus some of my purchases in the past. After all, I am spending $26,000 so I don't worry about $100. However, your $230 BELOW invoice hurt! Out here in Seattle, Liberties are going like crazy and I don't think I could have gotten it for much less. Our gas is also about $1.57 per gallon, thanks to all the taxes.
Anyway, thanks for your info!
Cliff
You could try to put an ad in the paper but I'm afraid you will take a huge depreciation hit. It became used the minute you took it off the lot.
OKAY, I hear some laughing out there! I really didn't want to take it until the end of the month anyway, but thought if it was in I would take sooner. I was just trying to avoid 2 car payments for January as I end my Camry lease but, I may just not be able to wait if it comes in sooner!
Hey Gypsy congrats on your baby. Are you having fun? I cant wait to see my White one too. Do you have any pictures yet?
Well, thanks for any info. Good night.
http://www.detnews.com/2001/autosconsumer/0112/07/b01-360966.htm
fastdriver