Subaru Crew: Official SOA Presence (aka Patti)

subaru_team

I was having some problems with my e-mail. It got a bit buried on vacation. Could you please re-send it? It may have been me, considering I was cooking my guest and all!

Sorry about that. I'll look at it right away if you can get another copy to me.

Thanks -

subaru_team

some of my guests got "steamed" when I wouldn't "chill" with them. Also, some folks were a bit "fried" by the beautiful sun and no sunblock. We also had some friends that got "sauced" - but they slept over - no drinking and driving on my watch. Was it a Freudian slip?

imyodaddy

Patti,

I picked up my Forester XT on Saturday in Milford NH. I gave this purchase a lot of study, knowing that I would have to lay out an ironclad case worthy of Clarence Darrow for my wife. After looking at everything (and I mean everything) nothing came close to the Forester. But, showing how shallow I really am, what cinched it was that engine. I can't wait to hunt BMW's when the engine is broken in.

If your car and your company are all that they appear to be, we will have a long and fruitful business relationship. So far I love the car. The engineering has left nothing to be desired (with one exception - the low beams could be better), and the quality is as good as anything I considered (and far superior to some premium brands).

I hope that as the miles roll by, I have nothing but good reports for you.

c_hunter

I resent the message -- hope it works this time!

thanks,
Craig

subaru_team

subaru_team

It took me a minute, but....

Welcome to the fold. I'm really glad you choose Subaru. I too hope you have many happy and safe miles without problems, but if you do need us, you know where to find us!

Congratulations and welcome again!

Patti

snead_c

Patti, do you have any influence with the "Accessories Division" of Subaru ? We STI folks are floundering all over the internet trying to locate "STI Mats" with limited success from Canada and GB...most of the retailers are not really offering the real fitted mat.
There's a little $ there for Subaru but more than anything some real customer satisfaction potential there.
Thanks for being here.

subaru_team

find out about them or a "plan". I'll post when I get a response.

Thanks!

Patti

fibber2

Patti,

While it is well documented that Freud had many problems, there is no proof that he ever wore a slip..... ;-)

Steve

subaru_team

subaru_team

The Sti came very close related to vehicle weight that had us think of ways to reduce the weight of the vehicle for customer’s to avoid additional tariffs. That is why there isn’t a standard radio. However, when the regulations are made as a result of these tariff’s, that includes a “maximum” number of anticipated accessory component sales. We (SOA) were comfortable with the estimated sales of radio accessories to make that accessory available to our customers. We were not able to determine a “maximum” for accessories like floor mats, nor were we comfortable that we could stay below that maximum that is set by the government. Therefore, we do not offer an STi floor mat accessory. There may be mats available in the aftermarket that would work fine in the STi, we just could not recommend their use nor have we tested them.

I wasn't aware that the government had a "maximum" sale percentage related to accessories. I guess that this is to prevent manuf.'s from bringing in a real light weight vehicle and loading them up with accessories to beat the tariff process. I didn't find out what the implications were if you went over the maximum. I hope that this information is enough. Subaru operates very conservatively, so it might not seem like a big deal to the end user, but they are not the kind of company that takes risks.

Thanks for the good question! I learned something today!

Patti

paisan

They must have changed the rules after the Isuzu Trooper and Trooper II thing in the 80s/early 90s. They would bring in "Troopers" which only had front seats as "trucks" then every dealer would install the rear seats as a DIO. The Trooper II was the same vehicle with the rear seats from the factory and carried a higher tarrif on it.

-mike

imyodaddy

for my XT? The website does not show an accessory that will protect the front end, and the Forester brochure says that they are offered for non-XT.

Thanks.

paisan

Bra? That doesn't protect. The only other item I know of is a wind-deflector, which routes air over the intercooler intake, and then your motor will blow up. Best bet is to get a clear-bra from 3M or similar item.

-mike

lark6

Ditto on what paisan wrote. It may have something to do with the "protector"'s interference with airflow into the intercooler via the hood scoop. If you're looking for something to protect the front end of your car from stone chips, etc., you may want to look into the clear adhesive covering from 3M et al. (usually called "Stongard" or "clearbra"). There's a guy on NASIOC who goes by the screen name of Peaty who posted photos of his recent install of that product on his new XT. He sourced from a site called rockblocker.com. Search the Forester Forum there.

Hope I'm on target with what you want.

Ed

paisan

Std. Bras on the front collect dirt, moisture, dust, etc, and then vibrate in the wind ever so slightly, creating a sandpaper-like motion. This takes off the clear coat first, then the paint. To avoid this you need to remove it weekly and clean thoroughly under it. Even if you do that, the paint will fade un-evenly over time due to one having a non-light passing covering.

-mike

snead_c

The explanation seems logical but somewhere in this world of autos there ought to be a way...
Charlie

subaru_team

I guess the aftermarket is the best route to go. I wasn't aware of the maximum % before. There are so many regulations that it's amazing that we can even get a car out there sometimes! I guess it's one of those "pick your battles" kind of thing. Maybe in the future based on demand. Keep letting us know - it can only help!

Patti

ateixeira

Aren't regulations grand? ;-)

-juice

jon_in_ct

imyodaddy, Subaru does offer a hood protector designed for the 2004 Forester XT. It's Subaru P/N SOA930P004 and it has no ‘flip-up’ in the front so the intake air will not be disturbed. This also means it's NOT a ‘deflector’ like the Subaru accessory designed for the non-turbo Forester.

jon_in_ct

patti, I'm a little concerned with your source's use of the word "tariff." I suspect the issue of the STi's weight was related only to EPA fuel economy test procedures. If the STi were heavier and scored poorly in its fuel economy measurements, then there might be either a fine if Subaru's Corporate Average Fuel Economy was lowered too much or, more likely, the STi might be subject to the Gas Guzzler Tax, which would actually be paid by the first purchaser, not Subaru.

The EPA fuel economy tests are performed on a chassis dynamometer and an important determination for how much braking force the dyno applies (more force equals worse fuel economy) is the vehicle's inertia weight class, which is directly dependent on the vehicle's curb weight. The EPA requires that "where it is expected that more than 33 percent of a car line, within a test group, will be equipped with an item (whether that item is standard equipment or an option), the full estimated weight of that item must be included in the curb weight computation for each vehicle available with that item in that car line, ..."

I think Subaru correctly assumed at least 33% of STi buyers would opt for floor mats if Subaru offered them and I think Subaru correctly assumed that less than 33% of STi buyers would opt for its optional radio it it were priced high enough.

jon_in_ct

I own a 2002 WRX and I've read that NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has begun a an investigation of whether there is a defect in the 2002-2003 WRX anti-lock brake system (ABS). As part of its preliminary investigation the ODI sent a letter to Don Bearden at Subaru requesting extensive information. A poorly reproduced copy of that letter in PDF format can be viewed here. A lot of proprietary information was requested, but one part of that letter basically asked for Subaru's analysis and opinion on whether there is a defect in the 2002-3 WRX ABS and Subaru's response to that request wouldn't seem to require disclosure of any priveleged/proprietary/internal-use-only information. That section is on p.7 of the ODI letter to Subaru and says:

11.Furnish Subaru's assessment of the alleged defect in the subject vehicle, including:
   a. The causal or contributory factor(s);
   b. The failure mechanism(s);
   c. The failure mode(s);
   d. The risk to motor vehicle safety that it poses;
   e. What warnings, if any, the operator and the other persons
      both inside and outside the vehicle would have that the
      alleged defect was occurring ...

Subaru was supposed to respond by August 20, 2003. Can you ask Don Bearden whether you can publish Subaru's response to item 11? If he says no, could suggest to Lisa Flemming in public relations that it would be a good idea to issue a press release with this information, saying also that Subaru is cooperating fully with the ODI in its investigation and hopes for a speedy resolution?

I imagine many 2002-2003 WRX owners are very keenly interested in this issue, and any info you can provide would be appreciated.

subaru_team

Yes - I used the term "tariff" in lieu of the term "gas guzzler". The terminology as it relates to FHI gets confusing. My bad. Anyway, the information is very similar and it was a corporate decision, so....

Anyway, it's nice to have you here.

Patti

subaru_team

FWIW - I'm heavily involved in the ABS concerns. Please see my posting above about what I can share. As you probably know, Subaru is VERY proactive in trying to do the right thing. This particular issue has a new set of challenges - mainly - duplicating the condition and weeding out the "me too's" with a totally different set of criteria from the common theme.

Unfortunately, Don is not in a position to make a "statement" about the investigation. We (me included) are working on it and we are taking it seriously and we have been. If you have experienced it and can READILY duplicate it, please contact me off line. I'd love to chat with you. Lisa cannot provide a response at this point as we it is still in the works.

Jon - I'm familiar with your knowledge and I appreciate your information gather skills. While it's tough to take, I'm asking for a little leeway here while we try to get some answers here. So far, I'm very impressed with FHI's responsiveness to our request for assistance in diagnosing what is going on. I hope that we'll have some solid data soon.

Thanks!

Patti

hypov

Hmmm.... my Pebbles is still OEM and I just so happen to have plenty of time on my hands. Want a test mule, Patti

-Dave

paisan

IMHO it's not a defect, but a result of ABS. I have the same sensation on most of my ABS equipped cars, with OEM tires and suspension. Hopefully patti will take Dave up on his offer (he's close to SOA, and has nothing to do currently!)

-mike

jon_in_ct

patti,
you wrote:
"Jon - I'm familiar with your knowledge and I appreciate your information gather skills."

I just registered at Edmunds today and I have a reputation that precedes me?

you wrote:
"Unfortunately, Don is not in a position to make a "statement" about the investigation."

It appears that NHTSA's ODI was very much expecting that Don would provide a statement about the investigation to them. I was just wondering/hoping whether his statement to the ODI could be shared with the actual car owners.

You wrote:
"Please see my posting above about what I can share."

Is this an allusion to your opening statement in your first post about what you can and cannot say? Or should I be searching for a statement that mentions the ABS issue?

You wrote:
"If you have experienced it and can READILY duplicate it, please contact me off line."

I don't believe I've experience the problem described in the Vehicle Owner Questionnaire (VOQ) forms submitted as part of the ODI's letter. I have, however, experienced a problem with my WRX's ABS system where it would kick in on smooth level road when braking for a stop signal at slow speeds. My local Subaru tech was easily able to reproduce the problem and replaced my ABSCM&H/U (ABS Control Module & Hydraulic Control Unit) and that problem has never recurred. Nevertheless, I'm concerned. And I've also noticed that a recent TSB has divorced the ABS Control Module from the Hydraulic Control Unit when replacement is necessary. In other words, they can now be replaced seperately. A paranoid might interpret this as a strategic manuever by Subaru to minimize costs in preparation for a possible recall.

In any event, it is a pleasure to correspond with someone from Subaru. Calling 1-800-SUBARU3 has never been satisying.

I've the impression you work in "Quality Assurance." Is that true? Can you elaborate?

subaru_team

messages. Are you angry? I'm only trying to help here.

I'm aware of your knowledge from other boards.

Don is very good about complying with request for answers/information. I just can't share that and at this point any information would be preliminary and proprietary. As I stated, we're looking into it.

I was referring to the header post about my inability to share certain confidential or preliminary information.

Please don't be paranoid. We often decide to offer components seperately that were once only offered as whole units. It's cost savings to consumers and us too, when it is under warranty. TSB's are communications on repair techniques, parts, etc. They are not always indicative of "issues".

If I had your last name I could check to see why you were dissatisfied. Next time, please tell the Rep. you are working with that I'd like to see the case.

My role with SOA is QC/Training Leader in the Customer Dealer Service Center.

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Thanks.

Patti

subaru_team

You putting one of ours through its paces?? Maybe you can help me with the STi I brought home tonight?

Patti

jon_in_ct

patti,
Your wrote:
"TSB's are communications on repair techniques, parts, etc. They are not always indicative of "issues".

I would normally agree, but the timing of this one (so close to the start of NHTSA's defect investigation) naturally invites suspicion.

You wrote:
"If I had your last name I could check to see why you were dissatisfied. Next time, please tell the Rep. you are working with that I'd like to see the case."

So, if I mention "patti" during a conversation, can I presume the person at the other end of 1-800-SUBARU3 should be expected to understand that I'm referring to you?

forestergump

The tone in your posts borders on accusations. Since you stated that you just signed up on this forum, you might not be aware that Patti has been nothing if not extremely helpful here. Her input and willingness to provide whatever information and assistance is permitted by her employer has been and will continue to be an incredible asset for both SOA and this forum. You might want to tone down your language, given that she has demonstrated time and again that she is not the "bad guy" or nasty big old corporation rep. Just my two cents.

-Bob

hypov

Patti-
Would love to, but I'm afraid I will destroy it before any good data can come from it ;-)
It's been 25 years since I rolled (pun) any gears [from the right side]. My last attempt had the instructor cutting short my paid session and begged I drive the AT.

Anyway, I'm able and willing to help with the "issue". Based on the pdf file regarding the investigation, I'm pretty sure y'all have very little to go by, since the complaints aren't very detailed on what the drivers were really doing.

-Dave

hypov

Information that is complete and thoroughly substantiated when delivered will serve more effectively to quench our curiosity thirst.
Preliminary or incomplete information is always disasterous every time. It'll open more doors for speculation or, as you put it, suspicion.

We all want/like to know, but I would prefer to exercise that want/like for a complete and thorough information. So, sit tight and be patient

-Dave

kens

Jon,

Not to gang up on you here, but I agree with Bob in that your interrogatory tone is raising a few eyebrows. Patti's here because SOA recognizes her work and, most importantly, because she is interested in helping us Subaru owners.

However, you need to keep in mind that like any employee of a company, Patti can't divulge any more information than she is allowed to -- especially in the early stages of data collection. It appears as though there isn't enough good data to make logical conclusions yet. Picking apart Patti's posts sentence by sentence is unfair to her.

Please be considerate to a friend that's going above and beyond the call of duty.

Ken

dcm61

Patti is providing a valuable service to us and the majority of it is on HER OWN TIME!

DaveM

bluesubie

Patti - I could reproduce the ABS "issue" for you at a spot (bridge near a stop light) on Rt. 22 in Union County. My '97 OBS did it at the same spot so, IMHO, it's nothing new.

-Dennis

hypov

Not new to me either.
Pebbles does it. So does my '99 OBS, and my '98 OB did too when the condition is right. But none of the occurences were enough to wet my pants, unless I wasn't driving for the condition.

-Dave

ateixeira

They're looking for a pattern, basically. If they can find one, they'll issue a recall or TSB, like they did with the brake master cylinder on my '98 Forester, even though it was only being affected at temps of 50 below freezing.

We have to be patient, basically, and informative if we have cars that seem to be affected. Particularly if the problem can be duplicated on demand.

We should work with the manufacturer, not against, to resolve possible safety issues like this. It's the responsible thing to do.

-juice

hypov

Here's another angle to look at to reproduce the "issue" at will. Clean the wheels with wheel cleaners [over spray into the disk brake], rinse and dry, then test. I was able to get the ABS on the '98 OB to kick in at low [15~25mph] speed - on smooth surface.

-Dave

subaru_team

I can't really get into the "issue" much. I've tried to come up with a way to communicate what I can about this, but I keep going back and re-typing it to explain better. Suffice it to say - we're trying. When I can share information about the issue and the resolution, trust me - I'll share it here first. Sorry. Thanks to those of you who understand the position I'm in and support these efforts.

Patti

hypov

We understand

-Dave

p0926

Okay guys, maybe we should give Jon a break. I've reread his posts and think that their accusatory tone is more a result of the impersonal nature of web posts than a deliberate action on his part.

-Frank P.

p0926

Dave might not be up for rowing thru the gears of your test ride but I certainly would be! And did I mention that I'll be in NJ next week for a couple of days? :-)

-Frank P.

c_hunter

Just wanted to say thanks to Patti and SOA -- after e-mailing with Patti, may parents called SOA and set up a case about the clutch "judder" problem on their 2000 Outback (formerly my car). The dealer had wanted to charge them $1200 for the fix, which didn't seem right to me.

Come into work this morning, and there's a very happy voicemail message from my mom -- SOA and the dealer are taking care of it, no charge. I'm really pleased about this, and know it will likely lead to another Subaru purchase in the family. Good news for everyone!

Patti, my mom sent "100 kisses and hugs" in her message, but I can't type that many "xoxo" so you'll just have to take my word for it!

thanks,
Craig

lovermont

greetings patti.
My '03 Outback Wagon is 1000 miles away from this point, and I wondered about taking it in for the 30K service, mostly as a precautionary measure before finding myself outside the warranty coverage period.
The dealer in Burlington, VT, where it was purchased, estimated the 30K service to be about 380.00
I wondered what type of issues you may be familiar with surrounding cars of this age and mileage? I'd rather not pay that much money to a dealer that overcharges for things that are included in this maintanence check up, but am worried that I'll discover something at 30,001 miles that may have been taken care of by the dealer had it been found during the check up.

So, any advice you or others may have regarding this service/warranty/what goes wrong as soon as the warranty coverage ends inquiry would be appreciated!

Thanks!

c_hunter

I thought the basic warranty was 3 years/36,000 miles?

Craig

ateixeira

Yep, you're fine for another 7k miles.

Go ahead and do the service, it should include all the usual inspections.

At 35.5k miles, I'd do a self-inspection. Check all the gaskets and seals, primarily. The wheel bearings on your car are the new design, so I wouldn't worry too much about those.

That's about it, unless you notice anything unusual.

-juice

lovermont

36K miles, of course! ooops.

Thanks for the input craig/juice...at least I don't have to rush to get it done before the end of the week like I thought I might have to!

I leave you with this: Is it true that the Outback wagon is about the only model that won't offer a 5 speed v6 (or Turbo?) in the future? You're killing me!

ateixeira

We hope it will, eventually. Rumors have the H6 getting a 5 speed Sportshift automatic, and only the turbos will come with manuals for now.

I drove an XT, and lemme say, the turbo mates very, very well to a manual tranny, acceleration is simply explosive.

-juice

bsvoller

Patti,

Not sure if this is the right place for making this kind of suggestion, but perhaps you can route it to the appropriate people...

I just filled out your owner satisfaction survey. We've been part of the Subaru fold for 3 years, and just purchased a Mazda MPV to complement our Forester. Let me also say that I spent a previous life in market research, so I looked at your survey form both as an owner and a former researcher.

This particular survey appeared to be aimed at determining customer satisfaction with respect to your product, dealer network and factory customer service, brand loyalty towards Subaru in general, and purchase intentions going forward. I might add that the questionaire appeared to be quite well designed, which is not an easy feat - kudos to you.

You might want to add a section on your owner's recommendations to other people. This is both an excellent indicator of satisfaction, and also an important input into future demand.

In our case, you "lost" a probable sale because you don't currently offer a vehicle which meets our needs (7 passenger seating) - which your survey captured. What your survey didn't capture, but might have, is that my mother bought a Subaru based almost exclusively on my very strong recommendation, and that a number of other friends and family are considering Subaru for the same reason.

Food for thought.

-brianV