Subaru Crew: Official SOA Presence (aka Patti)

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Comments

  • sjl_12sjl_12 Member Posts: 5
    Patti,

    It was recommended to me by other forum users that I post my situation to you in this forum. I would be extremely appreciative of any information that you can offer. Please see below for the letter that I posted earlier.

    Thanks,
    Jake

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone had any advice about a 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5 XSi. The dealer described it as a vehicle with all of the "X" features with the power moonroof and leather interior of the "XS".

    It is a new car (less than 30 miles on it). I asked whether or not it had any flood damage, they told me "no" (do they legally have to disclose this if asked?). They have 5 of these on their lot.

    The XSi is a "Test-Market Vehicle" as described by the dealer. According to him, Subaru wants to find out whether or not customers will go for a package such as this. This vehicle also has the same warranty as any other Subaru vehicle.

    2 things make me skeptical:

    1. Does it have the same parts as the X or XS. What I mean is, if the engine, brakes, timing belt, etc... need to be repaired, will I be told that because my car is a "test-market vehicle" my parts are harder to come by and would therefore be much more expensive. (in fairness, he did say that if I needed the power moonroof or leather interior repaired, he suggested only bringing it to their dealership, since it's the only one in the area selling these XSi's)

    2. The price that they're charging is only $16 over the "X" invoice price and appox. $500 less that the TMV price on Edumunds. I don't want to be the "sucker that is born every minute".

    Any insight and expertise that you can provide would be extremely appreciated. Thank you very much.
  • rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    In the past year, I have had several major problems with my '98 Forester S that required fairly expensive repairs (brake pads and rotors, speed sensor), and some expensive maintenance operations (such as replacing the timing belt). Considering the mileage (105,000), that is not too much of a problem for me.

    But now, I am really unhappy that the gas tank is leaking at the seam. There is no visible rust. Independent repair shops tell me that the tank can be repaired safely with expoxy, but my Subaru dealer insists on replacement. Since the replacement involves removing the exhaust system to get at the tank, they further inform me that because the flange that attaches the muffler is corroded, it will likely break and that the entire rear muffler assembly must also be replaced. Cost: $1400. This is a huge amount of money for a tank and muffler. I am especially unhappy because Subarus have stainless steel mufflers that never wear out, but the pipe and flange that attaches them is made of plain steel that does. This certainly seems illogical. Is there any alternative to these expensive repairs? Would it be unsafe to repair the tank with epoxy?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The tanks are plastic, not metal.

    I would not have it repaired, I'd have it replaced, but since it's such a high milage, why not just have a local shop replace it?

    As for the exhaust, you can probably have that replaced for about $200.

    As for SS exhaust, all cars today have "ss exhaust" but as you noted it's only the can itself.

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    - and I'm not sure of another term that would be similar? Could you please get the VIN and send it to me via "contact us" at Subaru.com? Also, the dealer name might be helpful. I'm thinking that if it is in the New England or New York area, the distributor could be testing out different accessories? Anyway, just send me the info. and I'll check it all out for you - including the warranty information.

    It's always a good idea to check something out if you have doubts!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    the dealer wouldn't recommend a fix vs. a replacement for an item like a fuel tank. There's too much risk to epoxy something like that. What area of the U. S. are you from? Is there a lot of road salt?

    Patti
  • sjl_12sjl_12 Member Posts: 5
    Patti, per your request, I responded to you at subaru.com under the category of Advertising/Promotion. I put "Attn: Patti" in the 1st line of the customer comment.

    Thanks so much for your time and help.

    Jake
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My guess is that the dealer took an X model and added aftermarket leather and moonroof. If so, they should be honest with you instead of making up a story about an XSi model (that designation does not even make sense by the way).

    Compare this car to a real "XS" (with the factory moonroof and leather) and you should be able to tell right away.

    Aftermarket accesories like this are usually pretty decent, but they will look different than the factory parts, especially the moonroof. For one thing, the controls will look different -- instead of being integrated into the overhead console, the controls will most likely have their own little pod in the headliner.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Contrary to popular belief, stainless steel rusts. There are different grades of SS and they have different amounts of nickel. Some grades are highly rust resistant while others are not. The SS typicaly used for exhausts is a lower grade that rusts, but should easily last the lifetime of the car (in contrast to the old-style exhausts which would rust out).

    A rusted exhaust flange is not a big deal -- they all rust. Since the flange is a thick piece of metal, rust is not usually an issue -- it would take many decades for rust to be a problem. At worst, it might be tough to get the bolts loose and you might need a $3 gasket. If the dealer is telling you that the rusted flange neccesitates a whole new rear muffler, than they are probably trying to rip you off. I would go somewhere else to get the tank repaired. Try the epoxy repair first, it's a fairly common thing.

    CRaig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah what Craig said about the XSi makes sense that's why they said "if you have a problem with the leather or roof, bring it back to us" My guess is they are dealer installed/aftermarket etc. and they just don't want to tell you that.

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Patti-
    I hear that there are invites being put out in the Tri-States.
    Can we play too?

    -Dave
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    Patti,

    I have my car back and its running well again. They had to replace the head gaskets on both sides, plus they found that the oil seal around the oil pump was leaking. The new oil seal and o-ring were installed along with a new timing belt (probably due to being oil-fouled). The labor charges on the HG repair were the killer.

    The other thing that I want to mention to you is that I had the same oil seal and o-ring replaced by them a year and a half ago (20,000 miles). They were absolutely wonderful then and repaired these under 'dealer good will' and just charged me for the new timing belt. I'm just hoping that this time these seals will last and I don't have to go through this expense again in another 20K.

    Case #674149

    Thanks,

    Alan
    98 OBW Ltd
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I agree with others that this appears to be the dealer doing a little test marketing of his own. However, if you can get leather and a moonroof for no additional cost then it sounds like an excellent deal. Are you sure there's not a hidden catch somewhere (like the dealer keeping a $1500 rebate)?

    -Frank
  • sjl_12sjl_12 Member Posts: 5
    Frank, The price they're quoting includes $1,250 of "Subaru cash" - so it would appear that they're not keeping a rebate. I imagine that there's probably a fairly large Manufacturer to Dealer incentive on vehicles like this.

    Reading everyone's well intentioned (and I'm very appreciative for it) advice makes me a bit nervous that, assuming the moonroof is an after-market add-on, the work done on it may not be the best of the best. I don't want water in the car's interior every time it rains or snows. Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

    Jake
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Hey, can us midwesterners play too? ;-)

    -Brian
  • sjl_12sjl_12 Member Posts: 5
    Frank, The price they're quoting includes $1,250 of "Subaru cash" - so it would appear that they're not keeping a rebate. I imagine that there's probably a fairly large Manufacturer to Dealer incentive on vehicles like this.

    Reading everyone's well intentioned (and I'm very appreciative for it) advice makes me a bit nervous that, assuming the moonroof is an after-market add-on, the work done on it may not be the best of the best. I don't want water in the car's interior every time it rains or snows. Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?

    Jake
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Hey Jake, don't use your refresh while still in the topic or it will result in a double post. As to the after-market moonroof, since the dealer had it installed I'd feel pretty comfortable that they used a reputable shop and in fact they should cover it under the basic 3/36 warranty (make sure that's in writing though).

    -Frank
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    about what I found. I can't post the information here (because of my "rules" - see above) but you can feel free to share all or any portion of what I sent you.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Hmmm - I'm not aware of who is organizing this, but I'll dig a little. Usually outside agency folks (hired by us) handle these, but I'll check it out and advise here.

    Patti
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thanks, I'd like to get in on a focus group :)

    -mike
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, Subaru added an "i" to the name of the new Legacy and Outback base models this year. Maybe they will do the same with the Forester next year???

    Bob
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    it relates here. Sorry to sound cryptic, but....

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Well, I sent out an e-mail seeking information to everyone I can think of. Stay tuned!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I just got a glimpse of a study that was done of Subaru shoppers. It indicated that almost 100% of our customers did some "shopping" or sought information on the internet? That's a pretty high number. Thank goodness for forums like this where our customers and potential customers can share such varied information.

    Patti
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Thanks for looking Patti :)

    -Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    you just spoiled my party....

    Bob <who was trying to Photoshop a Subaru logo onto the front of that truck>
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I volunteer to be the 'token woman' for the focus group ...
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    mmm turbo diesel SUV body, AWD, and bob's towing requirements should do fine.

    Then I can tow my SUBARU RACE CAR with it :)

    -mike
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    Well said, Patti - Swampy style no less!
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin: no, but swing by if you're on the east coast, we do have a sofa bed. ;-)

    Dealer specials are common, just keep in mind residuals aren't so good. People like factory stuff because it's backed by the manufacturer.

    -juice
  • mruebuschmruebusch Member Posts: 25
    well patty thanks for all the info i got from you months ago..i took delivery of my subaru last thursday and i havent stopped smiling since then. its such a wonderful car..i find myself asking to go on errands for my wife just to drive it. also fairfeild of subaru (cincinnati) was great ..counldnt have asked to treated better. well anyway thanks again.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Thanks for the purchase and I'm looking forward to your posts with your experiences. I'm sure your wife is appreciating the help too!

    Thanks again!

    Patti
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Michael- Congratulations! now it's time to update that profile ;-)

    -Frank
  • saywhatsaywhat Member Posts: 63
    Patti; When my AC is off, and the temp is dialed down to 65, (lowest it can go on my 05 Leg. GT. ltd. Auto, warm air comes out of the vent. I took the car to my Subaru dealer and the Service Manager took the temp outside with his thermometer and it was 78, then he took the temp coming out of my vents and it was 101. He contacted the dist. rep. who also drives a Ltd. then he contacted Sub. of NE, then we had to contact SOA, we sent them all the different web sites with all the many people with the same complaint, and I also printed out all the web sites to show the many people who are very upset about this situation. SOA is supposed to find a solution and get back to my Service Manager. What do you think? My wife has a new Forrester Turbo auto and it does not have this problem. The Service Manager and I tried every thing under the sun to correct this all to no avail. I think it's a bad design and bad engineering, just like the dumb rug holder and a few other things. Again, what do you think?
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    You have greetings from Jean Garcia; we met her at the end of the Ride&Drive this past weekend in the tent. Very nice lady (you're still #1 though!). We were talking to her about the poor service writers at the Subaru dealers here in South Florida...she seems to have heard it previously from many customers.
    The Ride&Drive was fun though Michael was not allowed to ride along, and we were rushed through the courses; because of this, we didnt get to test the Volvo through the handling course, and I didnt get to test the Legacy through the performance course; this is what I was looking forward to, and it seems to defeat the whole purpose of comparison tests. Susan seemed to have a real knack for driving fast through all the courses...those quiet accountant types!
    For Michael though, it turned out OK; one of the test drivers was John Paul Jr., former Indycar, IMSA, and LeMans driver... http://www.johnpauljr.com/
    Very nice guy who spent a lot of Michael's time talking to him about driving techniques and racing... Anyway, speak to y'all soon.
    Serge
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Just to add some data -- this weekend it was in the 60s here, and I was driving around with AC off on my new OB XT. I did the following: turned knobs to 65, press off, then press mode to enable the bi-level venting. I also turned on the fan from time to time. At noi point did warm air come through the vents -- it was definitely ambient temperature. SO I would say that the problem does nto affect all cars, just some.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    hmm the "vent" is usually warmer on my subies thank ambient.

    -mike
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I'm glad it was fun. Jean and I worked together many moons ago. I'm glad you had a chance to meet her and that I'm still your favorite!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    is going on. Seems like something that should be easily resolved? With such limited info. in your profile, I'm a bit of a loss. Could you please call into us at 1-800-SUBARU3? Please provide all the details to one of our Reps. and let them know that I'd like to see the case. While I won't be able to handle it myself, I'll make sure all the right resources are there to take care of it. I'm sorry you're having a problem with the new car. I hope you're not too let down.

    Patti
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    While we're on the topic, I have noticed two other common problems with the 05 models:

    1) whistling from the mirrors on legacy and Outback models, sedan and wagon -- some people have fixed this by cramming some weatherstripping in the hingeline gap of the mirrors.

    2) humming tires on the Outback models with 17" wheels. At least 2-3 people on another forum have replaced their OE RE-92A tires with another brand/model to get rid of the hum. I am thinking about replacing mine too, it's a real annoyance in an otherwise silent car.

    Craig
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    on feedback on the 05's and I don't recall those as "top" issues. I'll dig a little tomorrow and see why it's not coming on our radar - and I'll try to get it there! Thanks for the info.!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Well, I found out that we are running them outside of Philly with a company handling it for us. The bad news and the curious news:

    Bad - they already have enough of a "cross-section" selected to participate.

    Curious - there was other "criteria" used along with being a Subaru owner. Something about other vehicles considered, etc. I'm curious to how they obtained that information, but I think it must be from the OLP surveys. Not confirmed yet.

    Sorry I couldn't get y'all into one, but you do get a voice by posting suggestions on these boards. I send them to Product Planning on a regular basis. Not as much fun, but the information is shared anyway.

    Patti
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Thanks for checking into it :)

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Patti, any chance you'll be in upstate NY next Monday or Tues? I'll be doing an HPDE @ Watkins in the Impreza, if you or any of your reps wanted to come down and and check it out. :)

    Monday and Tues of next week.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Offline of Edmunds, I can point you to some of the other forums if you want to see more details about the mirror whistling and the tire hum. The mirror whistling is only noticeable if you have the windows down and drive around at 35mph on up (really whistles at highway speeds).

    The mirror whistling doesn't bother me so much, but the tire hum is really annoying, especially since I am looking at a $600 set of new tires as the only cure! My previous 02 Outback with OE 16" RE-92 tires did not have this problem; it seems to be unique to the 17" RE-92A on the 05 models. The noise appears to be related to vibration of the tire/wheel, not rolling. The hum is monotone, and gets louder with speed but the frequency does not change with speed (as it would if you were driving over a singing bridge or had a bad wheel bearing). If you lightly bounce a wheel/tire or bonk the tire with a hammer you can hear the vibration noise, and this appears to be the mechanism for the noise when driving. Over bumps and dips, the noise gets punctuated.

    As for experimentation -- a guy on another forum replaced his OE tires with Michelin Pilot A/S tires ($800) and got rid of the noise. I actually swapped the wheels and tires between my Subarus and the noise followed the OB wheel/tire combo to the other car.

    I should note that I had the balance checked and all 4 wheels were right on the money, so it does not appear to be a static or dynamic imbalance type of noise.

    For diagnosis -- I imagine anybody could take an Outback XT onto the highway with the windows up and stereo off, get up to about 65-75mph, and you will hear the humming (it starts as low as 25mph for me). People who have gone to even higher speeds say it's really annoying. The noise seems to come and go, as the hums from the 4 wheels add/cancel out (known as a beating effect). Sort of a warbling hum. Different highway surfaces make it better or worse, but it always seems to be there.

    I hope this info helps!

    thanks,
    Craig
  • saywhatsaywhat Member Posts: 63
    Patti; Thanks for your prompt reply. The Service Manager at my Subaru Dealership is waiting for a reply from SOA. As a matter of fact he just called me today to let me know that he has not forgot about me. The Dealership is a great dealership to do business with, and seeing as how they are handling this problem, I feel like I should not interfere at this time. If I don't get any results in a reasonable amount of time, I will then follow your suggestion and call one of your reps. I hope this can be resolved, because my wife and I buy 2 new cars every 2 years, I always had a Acura but decided to change this year because her new foresters have been great. If this problem is not solved, I will lose my trust in SOA and we will both revert back to buying Acuras. Thanks again Patti. Bob
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    If you close your mirrors, you may find the inspection stickers still there...remove them and the whistling should end.
    Serge
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