Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

drfill

According to Reuters report, Toyota will produce 100k Prius this year (presumably for the US).

 

  "Fully-remodeled" Camry this year (usually on a 5-year term)

 

  Goal of 230k Tundra sales by '08.

 

  Nissan is growing, but so what? Maybe in France or Canada Nissan is a prime factor, but it is second-tier here in 'Merica. 'Yota/Lexus grows at 10% a year, and 10% of a lot is greater than 15% of not as much.

 

   

  DrFill

alpha01

Fully remodeled Camry for 2006? Really?

 

There's pretty solid confirmation that the next Lexus ES will debut in Spring 2006, perhaps the same is expected for the Camry? Thats but a year away...

 

~alpha

argelius

Sorry to ask what I am sure has been answered before (but I grew weary of weeding through all the posts about Toyota)...

 

When will the new IS be revealed in an Autoshow? I am planning my next car purchase and the BMW 3- (or 5-) series is at the top of my list, but I'm curious about the new Lexus IS.

dewey

"Nissan is growing, but so what? "

 

Based on your logic the greatest mover and shaker in the auto industry is GM. Based on your logic---so who cares about Toyota's growth, when GM has been #1 these past seven decades.

 

In the real world--Toyota is a threat to GM and Nissan is definitely a threat to Toyota. If Number ONE never looks below it will never remain number one.

lexusguy

IS350 should be at the NYAS. Its supposed to hit showrooms mid to late 2006 I believe. If you're interested in the 3 series, I would also suggest G35 and TL.

argelius

Thanks! (I have a TL now. Nice care, but torque steer really bothers me, especially with a manual transmission. I thought it was just something that car geeks talk about, but it's all too real...)

lexusguy

yeah, Car and Driver said that the TL was the best car they couldnt recommend because of the torque steer issue. You just cant put that much power to the front wheels without reprocussion. They should've learned that from the Saab 9-3 Viggen, which I believe has the worst torque steer in the history of the automobile. Well, even if TL is out, G35 6MT makes 298hp and is RWD, and there's also the AWD S60R, which makes an even 300hp and is good for 0-60 in the high 5s.

riez

tsx24... My critical criteria also includes RWD. No FWDers or AWDers for me.

drfill

Toyota sweats Honda because:

 

  1. They have brand equity Nissan DREAMS about! The Nissan name in 'Merica means very little. They just got out of BK!!

 

  2. They build the best engines in the world (along with BMW).

 

  3. They are at the forefront of EVERY automotive technology. They're probably smarter than 'Yota (engineering)!

 

  I don't know if you live here or in Canada, but Nissan is a half-step ahead of Mazda here.

 

   

  Alpha

 

  I expect better out of you! You know the ES follows the Camry (its base) not the other way around. I don't know if Camry will be out this fall, but it WILL be out before the new ES.

 

   

  DrFill

lexusguy

I dont think so bub. Just look at the residual values for post Ghosn Nissans and Infinitis. Look at Nissans massive gains vs. Honda losses. Nissan is the #2 Japanese automaker right now, they sell more cars and make more money than Honda does. And thanks to basically a full on merger with Renault, they have WAY more cash in Reserve, the kind of cash Honda can only dream of.

 

Best engines is very arguable. I would say that Honda's 4-cylinders are basically the best in the world. But the Nissan VQ V-6 basically flattens anything Honda has.

 

If they are better engineers than Toyota, why is the world buying HSD, and not IMA? HSD is a much more advanced, and greatly superior hybrid system than Hondas.

alpha01

Just because thats the way its gone in the past, doesnt mean that the Camry has to ALWAYS be introduced first. If I recall correctly, the ES was previewed prior to the Camry in all the car mags this last generation, and they went on sale around the same time. Lexus has stated they will continue to strengthen differentiation between the two, so a separate launch doesnt seem impossible. That was my thinking.

 

~alpha

drfill

when I heard the Camry could very easily come out this fall. The current camry is so popular, I'd milk it for an extra year if possible, give the Hybrid motor some time on this gen.

 

  At the end, I still think BOTH are coming out in 2006. I can see why Lexus would early-launch the ES, with the MEga-Launch of the Revolutionary LS in Nov. 2006. It's just that Camry/ES has been such a winning formula, why change the order? It could backfire easily.

 

  Re: Nissan vs. Honda. Nissan may have a better V6 (except for the Hybrid V6), they may have a more diversified lineup. I MAY LIKE THEIR LINEUP BETTER than Honda!!! BUT......

 

  With Civic, CRV (150k units year), Accord, Odyssey (150k units too), and now at the forfront of the Hybrid generation, and the BRAND EQUITY (you guys forget the important stuff here), I just don't see Nissan being considered the secdond-best Japanese Import in the US, ahead of Honda. I just don't see it.

 

  Nissan has NEVER sold 1 million cars per year in the US. They hope 2005 will be the first.

 

  Toyota has already passed 2 million.

 

  Honda has Accord (400k), Civic (320k), Pilot (140k), CRV (160k), Odyssey (160k), that's well over a million right there, and that's just five models!!! Plus all the happy customers who have bought USED HONDAS, and have enjoyed the quality and resale value!

 

  Nissan is Japan's Chrysler! NEVER will be the #2, but can score here and there, but can burn itself through mismanagement.

 

  Remember, Toyota thinks Hybrid will be THE WAY of the future, and had to let Nissan buy in (where are THOSE great engines?).

 

  Honda and 'Yota are onto something big, and Nissan rides on 'Yota's dime. These are the facts. When I start lyin', have your people get in touch with my people.

 

  Oh, I hope I can make it to NY to see the new IS in person (I've been to the last 11 NYIAS)

    

  DrFill

lexusguy

Well, for one you are grossly overstating Accord and Civic sales figures by several hundred thousand cars. Honda wishes Accord could sell 400K, when in fact the car has had a very tough time since its redesign. Altima is up, Accord is down.

mjcinva

Will the retractable hardtop convertible and coupe be revealed along with the 4 door sedan at the Geneva and NY auto shows? I want the convertible! I'm dying to see it! Please tell me it will go on sale this fall!

tsx24

we sure hope so, but it usually doesn't happen that way. I expect to see spinoff models 6months to 1 year after the sedan debut.

lexusguy

That seems to be Lexus' plan now. The 3 series sedan will debut first, then the coupe, convertible, etc. Lexus wants to follow the same model.

drfill

I sure wish you would look up Honda's #'s BEFORE correcting me.

 

  Altima sells 250k a year, a great number for any Nissan sedan, probably their best ever, but well behind Accord, down about 5% from the 425k range to around 400k.

 

  Civic sells similar to Corolla, around 300-310k, and this has been so for several years.

 

  DrFill

lexusguy

Sorry I was reading year to date sales as of september '04. The Accord sold 386K cars in '04. November '04 sales were about 95K for Honda vs. 87K or so for Nissan. They are not far off at all. Globally, Nissan sells more cars than Honda does, thus they are Japan's #2 automaker.

Kirstie_H

If this discussion continues to be persistently off-topic, it will be closed.

mjcinva

In an effort to keep us on topic, when do you think the convertible will go on sale. It appears that the sedan is fall of 05 as a 2006 model. I hope I don't have to wait until the fall of 06 for the hardtop convertible as a 2007 model. What are you hearing callmedrfill?

 

And what are your thoughts on the price points on the new IS? I'm hoping to get into the convertible for no more than 40K. Is that a reasonable expectation?

lexusguy

Its really tough to get an idea of what IS350 and its variants are going to cost. Unfortunately, I think the convertible may be an '07 car. I seriously doubt that it will cost more than an A4 cabrio or 3 series convertible. That seems to be Lexus' target, along with perhaps the SLK350 as well.

tsx24

How many times have you threatened to close the thread Kristie? C'mon, quit joking around.

Kirstie_H

I HATE to close a thread! Really!

riez

we'd be able to do a better job of staying focused. But since Toyota/Lexus are playing their cards close for now, all we can do is opine, pontificate, bloviate, hypothesize, dream, pray, hope, and beg.

lexusguy

Haha. Well said. There arent even CG renderings of the IS350. NOTHING.

drfill

To me, I might as well answer it.

 

  A Spring '06 release of the Conv./coupe as a '07 model.

 

  Followed by a Fall '06 Hybrid model.

 

   

  DrFill

dewey

Wow callmedfill,

 

only you and the Toyota CEO knows this info!

 

We can only speculate the dates of IS Introductions, unless you are the two people listed above

drfill

I wanna be like.....

 

  DrFill

drfill

According to Danny Clements, the production IS will debut at the Geneva Auto Show in March.

 

  DrFill

mjcinva

I hope you are right. I really do. It makes since to release the convertible in Spring instead of the fall Duhhh!!! That's why I asked you.

 

My 03 Accord will be paid off in June which I'm keeping no trade in with the modifications I did (aftermarket rims and low profile tires, tint, DVD system Headrests & visors, chrome exhaust tips, lip spoiler and wood dash kit)

 

I have almost a year to save up a substantial down payment for the IS convertible which I pray and hope will exceed all of our expectations once the production reveal is done in March.

 

I am more than confident that the exterior will please. I hope that the interior dash is as pleasing and evolved also. I do not like the current IS interior and I have to be excited about both the interior and exterior to close the deal. One without the other just won't do.

kzoo1

lexus.com has pictures of the next IS (in convertible and coupe/sedan on its website under future vehicles... at least I think it is the next IS???

Looks a bit "bangled"...

lexusguy

All I saw was the same LF-S, LF-X, and LF-C concepts. The LF-C was supposed to be an idea of where the IS was going, but its no production vehicle.

drfill

And should also make an appearance in NY.

 

   DrFill

nyccarguy

I think they're going to wait until the fall to release it. I believe they want to see how the new 3 series is received by both the press and the public. They might be able to make a few tweaks here and there. I'm excited for the next IS. Hopefully Toyota will build on the current car's strenghts (razor sharp handling, RWD, high standard features, available LSD, manual transmission...) and make drastic improvements where necessary (by using focus groups of current and prospective owners, magazine critiques, and brilliant engineers).

 

We're all pretty upset about the (reported) demise of the Inline 6 and hopefully they'll continue to offer LSD (even though they dropped it on MT models for '05), but the truth is that enthusiasts are too slim of a market to cater too. It'd be great if Lexus took the IS line and went toe to toe with BMW and offered 2 engine choices, normal and sport suspensions coupes, convertibles (retractable hardtop?), RWD & AWD, as well as a SportCross.

 

Toyota doesn't like to lose (profits or marketshare) and I know they're going to do the next IS right. Lexus has come a long way since it's introduction in 1989. Yes most of their cars are stodgy, softly sprung, and offer nothing in terms of road feel, but they proved they can beat the competition as far as total sales go here in the largest car market in the world. I wish them luck.

drfill

They may just go with a 2.5 and a 3.5, maybe no 3.0 engine!

 

   That would give it an advantage against 330i.

 

   DrFill

glenford

That the bunch of people hanging around the IS introduction at the New York Auto Show will be us? :-)

dewey

http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050118.013/bmw/1.ht- ml

 

If you have the patience to look at the riveting detail of the above 12 page site---it appears the new 325 will have a 3.0l engine just like the 330. This sort of changes the competitive habitat of the future IS.

dewey

BMW says the new 330i will take about six seconds to run from 0 to 60 miles per hour. That's fast, but it may not be fast enough, and Mr. Panke vows more horses are on the way."

  

The above quote is from Wall Street Journal Jan.

24th.

 

What the above quote reveals is that the future 330 emphasis will be performance. This is interesting because BMW 3 series was never first place in terms of performance. Their laurels were earned in terms of its crisp handling and agility.

 

So what does this mean for the future Lexus IS. It means that the future will be different than the past when G35 used its additional hp as a selling point against BMW. BMW looks like they will be more responsive by increasing hp to confront future increases in hp from the IS , G35 or any other competing vehicles.

 

COMPETITION IS GAINING MOMENTUM AND THAT IS GOOD FOR US CONSUMERS!

is3ooguy

As an owner of the current IS300, I have a lot of hope for the '06. There's a strong base for Lexus to start from and considering this was their first attempt, they should be given considerable credit.

On my wish list are;

1. Upgraded interior. I now this is entry-level here but it seems a little low rent compared to the rest of the Lexus line up including the ES330 which is approx. the same amount of $$$.

2. More power. 215hp while fun doesn't cut it anymore.

3. How about the ML stereo as an option. That would be very sweet.

4. Someone please leak some info/photos like that (former?) BMW employee did. I'm dying here!

lexusguy

The interior should be up to Lexus standards, and I would expect the boy racer look to be gone for something more like a Mazda6. The IS350 should have something like 280hp and 260ft.lbs of torque. I'm sure they will add a ML stereo. Unfortunately we may not be able to see the car until it hits the autoshow circuit.

nyccarguy

I'll definitely be there. My BMWCCA membership gets me into the show the night before it opens, so I may take adavntage of that this year. I'm really excited to see the next IS.

wco81

My folks bought a ES330 last month. Very quiet when you start the car and it's idling.

 

But on the freeway, the wind noise is still there. Quiet still but not as quiet as I'd hoped.

 

Guess you have to step up to the LS or maybe even the GS for sound isolation?

lexusguy

There's only so much you can do for a car that sells in the low to mid 30s. The LS is like a bank vault.

is3ooguy

Does anyone know if VSC will be standard or available with the manual tranny this time? Fingers crossed....

prado

I do expect the 3.5L engine as a trim whether they also make a 2.5L, 3.0L, or even a V8. This 3.5L engine is going to be base engine for new

Lexus GS cars available in Japanese market Aug05.

 

http://lexus.jp/

 

I'm sure production car will be shown at auto shows early this year or at latest by August when Lexus is launched in Japan.

 

Might be talking outta my [non-permissible content removed] but the car MIGHT look like a shorter version of Toyota's own

MARK-X (JDM only) with sharper angles.

 

http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/markx/exterior/index.- - html

 

also check out the amazing interior in this car.

one91mr2

The IS350 (GT) will be tuned to 300hp, but I'm not sure if they'll still offer a manual transmission or at the very least, a sequential manual.

 

The 2GR-FE (3.5L), 3GR-FE (3.0L), and 4GR-FE (2.5L) are all dual VVT-i engines. The 3GR puts out 245hp which is just 10hp under the 255hp 2006 BMW 330. The 2GR puts out 210hp, which is sufficient to fend off BMW's more popular 325. And the IS350 will just demolish all of the 3-Series engines.

 

I'm really curious to see what it looks like though. Should be released this fall to compete with the new 3 series as a 2006 model (duh right). Don't expect a V8 in the IS, as that's GS territory.

drfill

Lexus has learned it's lesson with manual trannys and the $30k market. The G has 298HP and a stick. Make it happen!

 

   DrFill

prado

Probably no financial sense in developing v8 if 3.5 v6 can make 280hp+. benz & audi have v8's in their entry level sedans 'cause their v6 only making around 220hp. They're doing this for show & european market needs - probably not selling more than 2000 c55 or s4 a year anyway.

It'll probably have 6sp-man but do you think it'll have 6sp-auto (6-superECT) as in GS and LS sedans?

dewey

"but I'm not sure if they'll still offer a manual transmission"

 

If the IS will have no manual transmission, no inline-6, no LED and if it will be much bigger with a a softer luxurious ride---will it not compete more with a Avalon, ES330 or a Buick than the BMW 3 Series? Such an IS would put big smiles on the faces of Infiniti and BMW dealers!

 

  

"

wale_bate1