Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

merc1

Yeah I remember that statement, something about an agile dancer in slippery shoes. So I guess we need to see a roadtest of the LS430 in Sport or Euro trim. Then it will have the right "shoes".

 

M

lexusguy

I'm pretty sure its a small 6. It takes a blower to get the Camry 4 to 200hp in the Scion tC, and the IS250 is supposed to have about the same power as the IS300 does now, and it will be naturally aspirated. Nobody, not even Honda, can get 220\210 or so from a NA 4cyl.

glenford

Agree that all news would indicate a 6.

 

But, I believe 2005 Honda S2000 is NA, 2.2L 240 hp 4 cyl. Porsche 968 was a NA 3L 4 cyl also at 240hp. Probably both unsuitable, but it is possible.

nippononly

well in that case the IS250 is the one I would want. Hopefully the move to a smaller engine with the same power would indicate the new model will do better than the fairly appalling mileage of the current model. I mean, a compact sedan that only just barely beats many SUVs?

 

My local dealer has a sweet SportCross sitting out front right now. It is so sad this model is going away.

lexusguy

I meant more than 200hp AND more than 200ft.lbs of torque. The Honda is something like 168, and Im sure the Porsche was in the 100s as well.

lexusguy

Even the IS350 should come in well higher than the IS300. Keep in mind the IS300 uses an old, big, heavy iron block I6, that does absolutely nothing to help fuel economy.

wale_bate1

Bear in mind it's also horned into a space initially designed for a four. Not that it's particularly cramped under there, but there are perhaps more numerous and more acute angles than might otherwise be needed in a box designed around a six in the first place?

 

I'd agree, for volume's sake, I think a six in the US is an easier sale.

 

Nippon, you should pick it up as, like, a project car...

glenford

Ah. I agree the torque is important - one of the reasons I find the Acura TSX 200/161 (?) a bit disappointing.

 

Looks like the Porsche was 305nm (converts to 205lbft?). But who wants a 3L 4?

 

Still, without specs like you suggest 200+/200+, the IS250 will be less than what I am hoping for.

prado

Probably mentioned earlier but if there is an IS250, they'll probably use the 4GR-FSE engine used in Toyota's Mark-X (JDM) making around 212hp and 192ft-lb torque in the application shown. (it's a 2.5L V6)

Should make at least 30mpg and lighter than existing 2JZ-GE I-6.

Remember, the existing engine is old tech from around 1997.

http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/markx/mechanism/index- - .html

 

Notice the 3GR-FSE to be used in upcoming GS300.

Nice how they have dyno runs posted on company (Japanese) website. They should have that here.

wale_bate1

Ya know, if the platform ends up light enough, that 2.5 would be a very sweet option.

 

Unfortunately, making the car bigger probably means numbers south of the current platform's for an IS250. That's really too bad...

nippononly

"Nippon, you should pick it up as, like, a project car... "

 

A $32K PROJECT CAR????

 

Just slightly out of my price range for "projects"! :-)

 

It is sweet though - silver, with the leather/moonroof package and the summer tires. The RX will inevitably grow generation after generation, and it would serve Lexus well to have this smaller wagon in the mix. It is very short-sighted of them to cancel it in favor of a convertible version of the IS.

lexusguy

I dont know about that. The TSX's peaky 4 is still good enough for about 7.5 with the stick. An IS250 with a manual shouldnt have much trouble beating that.

wale_bate1

7.5 with a stick and, like 9-something with the manumatic. I'd say if they can get an IS250 to 7.5 or under with the manumatic, it's saleable.

 

American drivers aren't all that charmed with revving you know! Another reason even a great four-banger like the S2000's has limited (though impressive) appeal, especially at the lux or near-lux level.

 

Nippon: You actually saw a NEW SC on a lot? I shopped that car for two freaking years and never saw one in the skin until I put a deposit down on mine!!!

peterpan

Would love to buy a IS250 with new 4 cyl engine.

 

I need a nice, quiet car that is fun to drive. I don't need all the horse power and the torque.

 

Anybody knows how much the IS250 is targeted for?

wale_bate1

Toyota has made it really clear they have no plans to go any further "down market" than the car is now, which is a VP of Marketing catch-phrase that means "about $29K, plus change for openers".

 



 

$29,678 manual IS250 (if they make it). That's my bet. Hey, maybe we should start a pool here. I'm good for a fiver on the line!

chris65amg

I think that the IS will start at about 27k.... just to compete with the bmw 3 and Audi A4

kyfdx

Base price on the 325i is $29,995.. for '05.

wale_bate1

Bingo!

 

nippononly

"$29,678 manual IS250 (if they make it)."

 

And worth every penny. But this is Toyota we are talking about here, so my bet is $30,678. That IS a six-speed manual, right? I hope they don't do the lame thing and make the IS350 automatic only, but knowing Toyota I expect they will.

 

That SportCross was not only on the lot, it was sitting smack dab in front of the showroom doors.

lexusguy

Automatics rob low end grunt, and the TSX just doesnt have any to spare. An IS250 shouldnt have that problem. Also, if any Lexus is going to offer a stick, the IS250 is the most likely candidate.

dewey

It is interesting that Lexus would consider a 2.5l engine for the IS, while the new BMW 325 and 330 will both have 3.0l engines.

dewey

"That SportCross was not only on the lot, it was sitting smack dab in front of the showroom doors."

 

The dealer must be one of those die-hard nostalgic types(hates model terminations). Was Perry Como music playing at the showroom?

wale_bate1

Nippon: I just don't think so. I'm betting the opening price point stays just under $30K. Of course finding one of those without ordering it? Fuggeddabowddit! Six-speed? Why of course!

 

Lexusguy: that's the curse of the four. Not that I think there's anything wrong with winding a four up and playing its sweet spot; that's just not a typically American pastime! We're torque hogs, by and large. I think Toyota is too smart to play that game with the Lexus name, considering how much they're banking on it. Currently, there's only a 1/2 sec. difference (on paper) between the manual and the manumatic, and that's with the icky Camry's soft and slushy auto-tranny! Even that could be pared down with a shift kit to firm things up a bit.

 

I don't believe thay'll make the same no-manual mistake twice. That was a killer. This is supposed to be their sporting entry, so I'm betting that a manual will be available in every power level.

wale_bate1

Geez, dewey, what else have they got worth showing?

 

wale_bate1

Hey, 24 days until we see it!

 

T-24 and counting...

wale_bate1

Ooops, sorry.

 

That's 22 days...

lexusguy

"I don't believe thay'll make the same no-manual mistake twice. That was a killer. This is supposed to be their sporting entry, so I'm betting that a manual will be available in every power level."

 

Agree, not when TSX, TL, G35, 3 series, etc. all offer sticks. It would be suicide.. again.

rsx-sfan

Well they better not make that mistake. I'm kinda upset with the fact that they said that the next IS would have a conservative design. I like the current gen.'s agressive styling.

glenford

I like your manumatic 7.5s target. I'm busted - I drove the TSX with the auto. Too many bumper-to-bumper commute days, broken leg experiences, and other inconveniences to live with a stick again (even though it IS so much more fun).

 

So, 212/192 - can we get to 200? Sounds like a pretty good target. What's the 325 torque? It seems sufficient even with an auto. (I checked - only 175)

drfill

185 lb.-ft.

 

    Bet the farm on sticks all around!

 

    DrFill

kyfdx

HP 184

Torque 175

wale_bate1

Well, the current IS with the Camry's slushbox is good for a (paper) 7.3 run to 60. I don't see 7.5 as all that unrealistic.

 

Toyota does have an impressive SMG (from the MR2) that offers (reportedly) good, crisp feel, and with its clutches is not quite as torque-sapping as the Camry's converter. Who knows, maybe it'll make it's way into the lineup. But it's not next-gen stuff like Audi's DSG, which actually posts better acceleration times than a manual.

 

Unless I've misread along the way, I believe the IS gets the same auto tranny as the GS this go round. Hopefully, they'll firm that up a bit; take a touch of the silk out and add some grit.

drfill

I was talking about the '06 325i

 

  DrFill

kyfdx

Correct... 185 is the number quoted for the '06.. but, I think that is understated, as they are quoting the same numbers for the 3.0 litre engine in the North American 325i and the 2.5 litre engine in the Euro 325i..

 

My guess is that the true torque numbers for the NA 325i will be higher..

wale_bate1

"Why yes, it runs to 60 in 5 seconds and does the quarter in 13.7 with only 276bhp. What's the big deal? The weight? Oh, it's about mmmmph-mphl-mmmph?"

 

"What?"

 

"Mmmmmph-mphl-mmmph!"

 

"What?"

 

"3400 POUNDS!"

 

I didn't realize they'd shot down the cap. That was a self-regulation, was it not?

 

Anywho, I seem to remember a past problem at BMW with regard to published HP claims, as well as one at Mitsu and Hyundai. There must be others. I swear, if I were VP of Marketing, I'd sell it a little shy of actual as well.

 

Hell hath no (legal) fury like a power-junkie shorted!

wale_bate1

What the hell happened in here?

 

Sheesh. There's good info missing from yesterday dammit.

 

T-20 days and counting...

kyfdx

I requested that one of my more "snippy" posts be deleted.. Can't speak for the rest of them..

drfill

Mr. Sensitivity!

 

Hope I'm not being too "Snippy".

 

   DrFill

wale_bate1

Frankly, I didn't think your "snippy" post was out of line. Thought you handled that just fine.

 

Then again, I have kind of a schoolyard mentality...

drfill

But as long as I have the support of "The People"....

 

   Assuming you were talking about me. Why wouldn't you?

 

   DrFill

wale_bate1

LOL!

 

We talk about you all the time, Doc!

 

Actually I was talking about kyfdx's response yesterday, but you have our full support at all times!

kyfdx

Well.. right after I posted it, our friend deleted the content of his post.. So, it looked kind of bad, out of context...

 

I'm usually not accused of being overly sensitive...lol

drfill

LOL

 

   DrFill

wale_bate1

As an FYI, according to the good folks at IS300.net, the unveiling in Geneve takes place quarter after noon there on 1 March 05. So that's 6:15am EST, or 3:15am my time. I'll have to miss that one live, I'm thinking...

wale_bate1

T minus 18 and counting...

kyfdx

I thought there was no wagon? What are you getting excited about? ;-)

wale_bate1

Well, if they get it "right" enough (which, I must say from the outset I doubt), I could live with a [yaawwn] sedan...

 

Other than that, I, like Kipling's Elephant's Child, am very much "filled with 'satiable curiosity..."

foofoo

Following the link to see the new IS before the Geneva Autos Show: http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=13113

nippononly

that didn't work

chris65amg

I think that the IS looks nice

 

Although it does look a little Mazda 6-ish, it looks better, just because it looks more classy.