Yeah I remember that statement, something about an agile dancer in slippery shoes. So I guess we need to see a roadtest of the LS430 in Sport or Euro trim. Then it will have the right "shoes".
I'm pretty sure its a small 6. It takes a blower to get the Camry 4 to 200hp in the Scion tC, and the IS250 is supposed to have about the same power as the IS300 does now, and it will be naturally aspirated. Nobody, not even Honda, can get 220\210 or so from a NA 4cyl.
well in that case the IS250 is the one I would want. Hopefully the move to a smaller engine with the same power would indicate the new model will do better than the fairly appalling mileage of the current model. I mean, a compact sedan that only just barely beats many SUVs?
My local dealer has a sweet SportCross sitting out front right now. It is so sad this model is going away.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even the IS350 should come in well higher than the IS300. Keep in mind the IS300 uses an old, big, heavy iron block I6, that does absolutely nothing to help fuel economy.
Bear in mind it's also horned into a space initially designed for a four. Not that it's particularly cramped under there, but there are perhaps more numerous and more acute angles than might otherwise be needed in a box designed around a six in the first place?
I'd agree, for volume's sake, I think a six in the US is an easier sale.
Nippon, you should pick it up as, like, a project car...
Probably mentioned earlier but if there is an IS250, they'll probably use the 4GR-FSE engine used in Toyota's Mark-X (JDM) making around 212hp and 192ft-lb torque in the application shown. (it's a 2.5L V6)
Should make at least 30mpg and lighter than existing 2JZ-GE I-6.
Remember, the existing engine is old tech from around 1997.
"Nippon, you should pick it up as, like, a project car... "
A $32K PROJECT CAR????
Just slightly out of my price range for "projects"! :-)
It is sweet though - silver, with the leather/moonroof package and the summer tires. The RX will inevitably grow generation after generation, and it would serve Lexus well to have this smaller wagon in the mix. It is very short-sighted of them to cancel it in favor of a convertible version of the IS.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I dont know about that. The TSX's peaky 4 is still good enough for about 7.5 with the stick. An IS250 with a manual shouldnt have much trouble beating that.
7.5 with a stick and, like 9-something with the manumatic. I'd say if they can get an IS250 to 7.5 or under with the manumatic, it's saleable.
American drivers aren't all that charmed with revving you know! Another reason even a great four-banger like the S2000's has limited (though impressive) appeal, especially at the lux or near-lux level.
Nippon: You actually saw a NEW SC on a lot? I shopped that car for two freaking years and never saw one in the skin until I put a deposit down on mine!!!
Toyota has made it really clear they have no plans to go any further "down market" than the car is now, which is a VP of Marketing catch-phrase that means "about $29K, plus change for openers".
$29,678 manual IS250 (if they make it). That's my bet. Hey, maybe we should start a pool here. I'm good for a fiver on the line!
And worth every penny. But this is Toyota we are talking about here, so my bet is $30,678. That IS a six-speed manual, right? I hope they don't do the lame thing and make the IS350 automatic only, but knowing Toyota I expect they will.
That SportCross was not only on the lot, it was sitting smack dab in front of the showroom doors.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Automatics rob low end grunt, and the TSX just doesnt have any to spare. An IS250 shouldnt have that problem. Also, if any Lexus is going to offer a stick, the IS250 is the most likely candidate.
Nippon: I just don't think so. I'm betting the opening price point stays just under $30K. Of course finding one of those without ordering it? Fuggeddabowddit! Six-speed? Why of course!
Lexusguy: that's the curse of the four. Not that I think there's anything wrong with winding a four up and playing its sweet spot; that's just not a typically American pastime! We're torque hogs, by and large. I think Toyota is too smart to play that game with the Lexus name, considering how much they're banking on it. Currently, there's only a 1/2 sec. difference (on paper) between the manual and the manumatic, and that's with the icky Camry's soft and slushy auto-tranny! Even that could be pared down with a shift kit to firm things up a bit.
I don't believe thay'll make the same no-manual mistake twice. That was a killer. This is supposed to be their sporting entry, so I'm betting that a manual will be available in every power level.
"I don't believe thay'll make the same no-manual mistake twice. That was a killer. This is supposed to be their sporting entry, so I'm betting that a manual will be available in every power level."
Agree, not when TSX, TL, G35, 3 series, etc. all offer sticks. It would be suicide.. again.
Well they better not make that mistake. I'm kinda upset with the fact that they said that the next IS would have a conservative design. I like the current gen.'s agressive styling.
I like your manumatic 7.5s target. I'm busted - I drove the TSX with the auto. Too many bumper-to-bumper commute days, broken leg experiences, and other inconveniences to live with a stick again (even though it IS so much more fun).
So, 212/192 - can we get to 200? Sounds like a pretty good target. What's the 325 torque? It seems sufficient even with an auto. (I checked - only 175)
Well, the current IS with the Camry's slushbox is good for a (paper) 7.3 run to 60. I don't see 7.5 as all that unrealistic.
Toyota does have an impressive SMG (from the MR2) that offers (reportedly) good, crisp feel, and with its clutches is not quite as torque-sapping as the Camry's converter. Who knows, maybe it'll make it's way into the lineup. But it's not next-gen stuff like Audi's DSG, which actually posts better acceleration times than a manual.
Unless I've misread along the way, I believe the IS gets the same auto tranny as the GS this go round. Hopefully, they'll firm that up a bit; take a touch of the silk out and add some grit.
Correct... 185 is the number quoted for the '06.. but, I think that is understated, as they are quoting the same numbers for the 3.0 litre engine in the North American 325i and the 2.5 litre engine in the Euro 325i..
My guess is that the true torque numbers for the NA 325i will be higher..
"Why yes, it runs to 60 in 5 seconds and does the quarter in 13.7 with only 276bhp. What's the big deal? The weight? Oh, it's about mmmmph-mphl-mmmph?"
"What?"
"Mmmmmph-mphl-mmmph!"
"What?"
"3400 POUNDS!"
I didn't realize they'd shot down the cap. That was a self-regulation, was it not?
Anywho, I seem to remember a past problem at BMW with regard to published HP claims, as well as one at Mitsu and Hyundai. There must be others. I swear, if I were VP of Marketing, I'd sell it a little shy of actual as well.
Hell hath no (legal) fury like a power-junkie shorted!
As an FYI, according to the good folks at IS300.net, the unveiling in Geneve takes place quarter after noon there on 1 March 05. So that's 6:15am EST, or 3:15am my time. I'll have to miss that one live, I'm thinking...
Comments
M
But, I believe 2005 Honda S2000 is NA, 2.2L 240 hp 4 cyl. Porsche 968 was a NA 3L 4 cyl also at 240hp. Probably both unsuitable, but it is possible.
My local dealer has a sweet SportCross sitting out front right now. It is so sad this model is going away.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'd agree, for volume's sake, I think a six in the US is an easier sale.
Nippon, you should pick it up as, like, a project car...
Looks like the Porsche was 305nm (converts to 205lbft?). But who wants a 3L 4?
Still, without specs like you suggest 200+/200+, the IS250 will be less than what I am hoping for.
Should make at least 30mpg and lighter than existing 2JZ-GE I-6.
Remember, the existing engine is old tech from around 1997.
http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/markx/mechanism/index- - .html
Notice the 3GR-FSE to be used in upcoming GS300.
Nice how they have dyno runs posted on company (Japanese) website. They should have that here.
Unfortunately, making the car bigger probably means numbers south of the current platform's for an IS250. That's really too bad...
A $32K PROJECT CAR????
Just slightly out of my price range for "projects"! :-)
It is sweet though - silver, with the leather/moonroof package and the summer tires. The RX will inevitably grow generation after generation, and it would serve Lexus well to have this smaller wagon in the mix. It is very short-sighted of them to cancel it in favor of a convertible version of the IS.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
American drivers aren't all that charmed with revving you know! Another reason even a great four-banger like the S2000's has limited (though impressive) appeal, especially at the lux or near-lux level.
Nippon: You actually saw a NEW SC on a lot? I shopped that car for two freaking years and never saw one in the skin until I put a deposit down on mine!!!
I need a nice, quiet car that is fun to drive. I don't need all the horse power and the torque.
Anybody knows how much the IS250 is targeted for?
$29,678 manual IS250 (if they make it). That's my bet. Hey, maybe we should start a pool here. I'm good for a fiver on the line!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
And worth every penny. But this is Toyota we are talking about here, so my bet is $30,678. That IS a six-speed manual, right? I hope they don't do the lame thing and make the IS350 automatic only, but knowing Toyota I expect they will.
That SportCross was not only on the lot, it was sitting smack dab in front of the showroom doors.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The dealer must be one of those die-hard nostalgic types(hates model terminations). Was Perry Como music playing at the showroom?
Lexusguy: that's the curse of the four. Not that I think there's anything wrong with winding a four up and playing its sweet spot; that's just not a typically American pastime! We're torque hogs, by and large. I think Toyota is too smart to play that game with the Lexus name, considering how much they're banking on it. Currently, there's only a 1/2 sec. difference (on paper) between the manual and the manumatic, and that's with the icky Camry's soft and slushy auto-tranny! Even that could be pared down with a shift kit to firm things up a bit.
I don't believe thay'll make the same no-manual mistake twice. That was a killer. This is supposed to be their sporting entry, so I'm betting that a manual will be available in every power level.
T-24 and counting...
That's 22 days...
Agree, not when TSX, TL, G35, 3 series, etc. all offer sticks. It would be suicide.. again.
So, 212/192 - can we get to 200? Sounds like a pretty good target. What's the 325 torque? It seems sufficient even with an auto. (I checked - only 175)
Bet the farm on sticks all around!
DrFill
Torque 175
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Toyota does have an impressive SMG (from the MR2) that offers (reportedly) good, crisp feel, and with its clutches is not quite as torque-sapping as the Camry's converter. Who knows, maybe it'll make it's way into the lineup. But it's not next-gen stuff like Audi's DSG, which actually posts better acceleration times than a manual.
Unless I've misread along the way, I believe the IS gets the same auto tranny as the GS this go round. Hopefully, they'll firm that up a bit; take a touch of the silk out and add some grit.
DrFill
My guess is that the true torque numbers for the NA 325i will be higher..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
"What?"
"Mmmmmph-mphl-mmmph!"
"What?"
"3400 POUNDS!"
I didn't realize they'd shot down the cap. That was a self-regulation, was it not?
Anywho, I seem to remember a past problem at BMW with regard to published HP claims, as well as one at Mitsu and Hyundai. There must be others. I swear, if I were VP of Marketing, I'd sell it a little shy of actual as well.
Hell hath no (legal) fury like a power-junkie shorted!
Sheesh. There's good info missing from yesterday dammit.
T-20 days and counting...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Hope I'm not being too "Snippy".
DrFill
Then again, I have kind of a schoolyard mentality...
Assuming you were talking about me. Why wouldn't you?
DrFill
We talk about you all the time, Doc!
Actually I was talking about kyfdx's response yesterday, but you have our full support at all times!
I'm usually not accused of being overly sensitive...lol
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
DrFill
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Other than that, I, like Kipling's Elephant's Child, am very much "filled with 'satiable curiosity..."
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Although it does look a little Mazda 6-ish, it looks better, just because it looks more classy.