Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

oac

Of the new IS on the turntable at the Geneva Show:



OR these....

wale_bate1

That's just cruel, oac!
;-)

kyfdx

I like the wheels..

Look like 18"... that is a good sign.

wale_bate1

Yeah, those don't look bad, though I'm a straight five-spoke kind of guy m'self. If it has to be a twin-five, I'm OK, so long as they can keep the weight around 20lbs ea. It also would be nice to have 8+" of width...

oac

18" low-profile tires, with nice rims...

Notice that it doesn't appear to be wearing a front or side skirt. Looking good .. so far ! Maybe the "sport" version of the IS. But which IS (220d/250/350)???

oac

"That's just cruel, oac!"

Hehehe.... Not me, man.... Wish someone will get under that canopy and snap some more. The good news is we are down to a matter of hours from now when that car is unveiled...

kyfdx

Well.. it can't be 350.. I already said they wouldn't have one of those...lol

wale_bate1

Well, of course once the wraps are off, unless it's a dog or a pig or a pig-dog, we still have to wait to see it in the metal to make a real call. Is there a major US show left this year to bring it to?

kyfdx

What about LA?

deanedell

In the US, the first show to get the IS will be NY.

lexusguy

Well, apparently there arent enough 20 somethings interested in the car. What is the average age of 3 or A4 buyers, do you know?

chris65amg

Does that engine in the background of the second picture have anything to do with the IS? Just wondering....

wale_bate1

Nope, but I'll make book that the A4's is fairly low, given that the bulk of their volume comes from the 1.8T version.

Maybe kdfyx has the skinny on the 3-series. Off the cuff, I'd think it was maybe 33-34.

I think the target was good, and the product was capable in 2001, but you can't introduce a model that's already been in cycle for a couple years, not give it a manual at the start, and have little or no updating for five years. Pretty much the story.

Hey, kdfyx, what's the word on three sales this year or last year? Up, down or level?

kyfdx

I know total sales of the 3-series were about 106K for calendar year, 2004...

I think that is down slightly, but they had a little cannibalization from the X3...

Total US BMW Group sales for January, '05 were up something like 20% year over year, but a lot of that is due to the incentives on the '05 325i and 330i sedans.... Making room for the new model coming in May..

Sorry... I just drive them.. and hope they DON'T sell well... then, they cut the price.. lol.

lenscap

The engine choices in America are pretty much confirmed. I was at a dealer party for the new GS a few weeks ago and I heard it straight from a regional manager: there will be a 2.5 with power about equal to today's 3.0 and a 3.5 with over 300hp. Europe will be different so the engines announced tomorrow may not be what we get here in the states. Also, the AWD will only be available with the 2.5.

oac

Q for you, lenscap:

IF the IS gets the 3.5L, how is it that only the GS gets this new 3L motor ? Did Lexus spend all that money to create a motor destined only for the GS ? I fail to see how that can be possible ?

rsr742002

They will probably use 2.5 designation for the 3.0 engine to make the distinction between 3.5 and 3.0 larger (marketing gimmick I guess)...

BMW 323 had a similal logic: I believe it used 2.5 liter engine but they wanted to differenciate it from 2.8 liter upmarket model.

I am very curious to see the real story...

drfill

Maybe the 3.5 can get here by fall for the GS?

Lexus is being even tighter than usual, leading me to believe they have a Super bun in the oven this time.

They aren't guarding a 245HP sedan like this!

Who has the live video feed tomorrow?

DrFill

tsx24

Does it strike anyone else as odd, that the new 06 Avalon uses a 3.5 V6; and offers even more features than the ES330? The Avalon can now be had with a "sport" trim, which seems to be an even better/cheaper car than the GS300. I don't see why anybody would buy the GS300 when they can have the Avalon 3.5 which is quite a Lexus looking car if you have seen it.

Lexus could be using the 3.0 on new Camry, Solara, Rav-4 etc. IS should have 3.0 and 3.5 IMO considering BMW has 2 3-liter sixes.

kyfdx

I was just thinking...

BMW said they would have a 3.0 litre in the 325i, even though it has a 2.5 in the rest of the world... The word was that it was for emissions reasons..

I wonder if they made that change, just to screw with Toyota.. since, the new IS is a 2.5?

Assuming that it really is a 2.5 litre..

I like a good conspiracy theory...

lenscap

I was told the GS will get the 3.5 after about one year on the market. The trademark filings back this up as Lexus recently filed to trademark the name "GS 350." Why the 3.0 is being used at all I have no idea.

wale_bate1

Isn't the Avalon FWD?

GS wins already, even if they buck-staple a 2.5L in there!
;-)

tsx24

I think the FWD/RWD argument only makes a difference when you are talking about "at the limit handling". In cars like the Avalon and GS, they don't handle all that well in the first place. FWD/RWD won't make a difference.

Especially since Avalon has the same features, push button start up, smart key, power/memory/heated steering column, seats etc.

hmmm Avalon 3.5 280 hp @ $30k
or GS300 3.0 245 hp @ $45k

wale_bate1

Considering the people who regularly would actually buy either of these cars and the way they would drive them, I suppose that's a valid point, tsx, but the poseur who picks up the GS will insist on it getting the nod from the various automotive rags as being somewhat of a driver's car, which it would not garner as a FWDer. It's not a Honda after all.

Every review I've seen of the new Av is complimentary, but basically says this is the car to fall asleep in. The ultimate Buick. You won't sell many to a GS shopper with that image, regardless of actual use and driving habits!.

I think the new Av is a nice step up over the abomination that it replaces.

lenscap

I disagree. My family has a 1999 GS 300 and it handles pretty well. The new GS is supposed to be a lot better. The Avalon is like a rolling couch. In my opinion there is no comparison...I would take a GS over an Avalon any day, even with less power.

oac

The '06 Avalon.... And I think it will sell pretty good, considering the upgrades it received, and not much bump in base price... Think about the baby boomers as they leave the workforce wanting a car to pamper them in their retirement years as they ferry around golf courses, dinner engagements, opera shows, your favorite ballgame, etc... I'll say Toyota pretty much nailed the Avalon to these cream puffs....

lexusguy

Highly doubt Lexus would fudge numbers like that. They have never done it before. BMW, on the other hand, does it all the time.

tsx24

I'll say Toyota pretty much nailed the Avalon to these cream puffs....

hahahaha...lol

One thing that surprised me about avalon though is 280 hp / 260 tork = 31 mpg on highway

tsx24

I disagree. My family has a 1999 GS 300 and it handles pretty well. The new GS is supposed to be a lot better. The Avalon is like a rolling couch. In my opinion there is no comparison...I would take a GS over an Avalon any day, even with less power

An 05 Avalon with sport suspension, is not going to be far from a GS in handling. and to the RWD/FWD comment - RWD cars don't necessarily handle better than FWD cars do. I had a toyota cressida RWD 3.0 I6 that handled much worse than my FWD nissan sentra SE-R, and my Acura TSX...then again my Mazda Rx-7 and BMW Z3 handled better than both FWD cars. The difference is more of driving dynamics and the way the car must be driven... RWD oversteer/throttle on vs FWD understeer/throttle off

is3ooguy

The excitement builds... Bring it on Lexus, we know you got it! So close.....

oac

The more I look at the Geneva autoshow pic I posted earlier, and compared it to the one released by CAR magazine, the more I think it ain't the same.

Let me show you what I mean. See the side skirt in the CAR magazine pic ?



Now compare it to the actual from the peek underneath that canopy... See the difference ?

wale_bate1

Nope, I think they're the same. Notice the up-angle to the front valance. also notice the slight swelling just aft of the wheel well that looks like the beginning of the skirt. And the hard arc of the fender.

Looks pretty darn close to me.

Dammit.

oac

If you look at the CAR mag side-shot closely, you will notice that the bottom part of the door frame lines running from the rear doors to the front does not extend all the way to the front wheel well. In fact, the pic shows a *crease* at the bottom of the side body panel.... In contrast, the peek-a-boo side pic shows a clear line running up to the wheel well, like a side skirt or body-molding....

I don't think the two pics are the same, imo...

wale_bate1

I dunno, oac, I think the scan of the mag page is just blurred enough that you don't see the cut line.

I could be wrong. It's happened before, I've been told. One must believe one's spouse, musn't one?

Waiting sucks. Always!

bill9875

Better picture from http://www.thecarconnection.com

pearl

Yes, it is incomprehensible that Lexus would put itself at such a disadvantage vs. other cars. I spent a fair amount of time sitting in/driving both the Lexus GS300 and the Inifiti M35. The Infiniti wins hands down in my opinion, even though there are clearly areas of superiority for the Lexus. The M35's transmission, while only a five speed vs. a six speed in the GS, is VASTLY superior, particularly re following the driver's desires re engine braking, etc. Overall driving/braking is a clear win for the M. I liked the GS's interior style a bit better but it's cramped interior, especially head room, was a major negative. Look - both of these cars are excellent; however, I think that anyone who wants to "drive" these cars will see the "M" as a much superior road machine.

jmess

Now that is a nose looking for a good plastic surgeon

nippononly

I have begun seeing TV ads for the '06 GS430. If they wanna make the new IS look like a baby one of those, they are MOST welcome to - it looks awesome!

sorter

This is way better than the GS, the interior is even better done than the ES.

http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/2005_geneva/lexus_is/pages- /1.htm

drfill

It extends, front to back, into the headlights casings! The raised hood, the high-cut rear doors, the aluminum trim interior door handles.

The shoulders built into the rear quarter are AWESOME!

I wish someone with the tech can pair the '06 330i pics and the new IS pics together, to show how FAR AHEAD the Lexus is in STYLING!!

BMW took a step back hear, and Lexus has hit a Grand Slam here.

And it looks like 18" on the "base" 250.

Keyless Go. Pass Side Seat Memory.

The guages are actually the most understated part of the cars styling! Still comes off like a Tag Heuer!

Great Job!

DrFill

sorter

The problem of BMW is going to be the styling. A few years from now, people can't tell a 2004 from a 2006.

drfill

But the taillights are safe, at best, and give the rear end a puckered look.

The chrome eyebrows on top of the trakemark Kidney Grille isn't working for me. I think the whole front clip is too round.

And the interior pics forecast a similar decor to the 5 series. It's ok, but well behind the new IS in material quality and has ZERO "Bling-Bling".

The BMW styling just strikes me as starting to get a little too round and bloated, especially up front. I want an ultra-aggressive face.

DrFill

drfill

As they TRY to forecast Lexus intentions at NYIAS, with an introduction of the ratings for the new 2.5, and announce a 3.5L, 245HP addition to the IS lineup.

I'm pretty sure they mean 3.0L 245HP, since the 3.5 at 245HP makes no sense at all.

Just a typo.

So it looks like the IS will have 3 engines by Fall 2006, the 280+ 3.5 may wait until next year.

DrFill

sedmund

The interior definitely looks quite nice, just a tad stark. I wish the dash met the door more in a slightly curved fashion and not so much at a right angle. Exterior is conservative at best.
But the steering wheel mounted gear shifters look interesting. Is this available in other lexus models (like the latest GS etc)?

drfill

Exterior is conservative?

Than what is the new 3?

Interior stark?

Wood, aluminum, touch screen, electro guauges.

How would you like the new 3's interior?

DrFill

nippononly

that's a slam dunk in my book. Between the new GS and now the new IS, Lexus is FINALLY beginning to get some style (it was previously limited to the IS at the Lexus store!).

Rather than the "smeared" look many of the Lexi have now, this IS looks like a proper evolution of the current car's styling.

I will be surprised if Lexus is not prepared enough to bring the new 3.5 to the GS at the same time as it launches it in the IS. Perhaps the new engine is not quite ready? Although it seems like this must be the engine already in use in the new Avalon. If the 3.5 is not ready for the GS when the IS arrives in the fall, I would expect Lexus to stick the existing 3.0 in the IS until the 3.5 is available for both models.

kyfdx

Too much of the "fastback" styling.. That part makes it look like a hatchback..

And the lower front and rear bumper/spoiler area is a little too overstyled..

But, I'm pleasantly surprised.. overall it is very handsome, and I like the interior also..

I wouldn't necessarily extrapolate that it has 18" wheels standard, just because it is shown with them...

245 Hp.. I don't want to say I told you so.. (oops, just did).

One thing I'll say about Lexus.. They don't seem to be too caught up in the "horsepower wars", which is a good thing...

regards,
kyfdx

drfill

They rear could look a little heavy, but the way the rear quarter has been sculptured really works. Makes it obvious this is RWD.

If Barry Sanders were a car....

DrFill

motownusa

The design was clearly inspired by the MARK X. I wish Toyota would export that car to the States.

dewey

As I previously mention I do not like the exterior. But the interior looks great. I am not crazy about the interior of the new BMW 3---BUT it will be the performance/handling specs that will be the deal-maker for me.

People in general make a big deal about styling--in contrast I seek character not a pretty face! Show me the specs!!!