Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

lexi4life

Is it me or it's REALLY written "IS220H" at the rear of the car???!!!!! Look:

gotenks243

"One thing I'll say about Lexus.. They don't seem to be too caught up in the "horsepower wars", which is a good thing... "

Give your head a shake. They're at the forefront, one of the first to break the 280 'rule' in Japan. If the 2GR-FE 3.5 in the Avalon makes 280hp, the direct injection version (2GR-FSE) in the IS and GS will be making over 300hp. Lexus is going to take Infiniti head-on.

The 3.5 is launching in August in Japan when the Lexus brand is introduced with the new GS. There will be no GS300 in Japan. So it seems the 3.5 will be ready for the IS350 in the fall, with no need to introduce an IS300 as a stopgap, though an IS300 may come out later anyway. I believe in an interview a short while ago it came out that Toyota wants to stagger the introductions of new engines and drivetrain configurations as the Germans do across several model years. That way there will still be 'excitement' in the lineup even after the car has been out for a few years.

About the "IS220h", the picture isn't showing up, but could it be a D? I know there's supposed to be an IS220 Diesel in Europe. That's the IS I would get too, if it was sold here.

Mike

kyfdx

I hear you talking.... but, other than the Avalon, the rest is just supposition... Those cars aren't out with those engines, as of yet..

I can go down to the Infiniti dealer today, and get a 298 HP G35, or an M45 with... etc, etc..

But, my point is.. I'd rather see more emphasis on driving dynamics, than horsepower..

It doesn't bother me that the new IS has less horsepower than the BMW....

regards,
kyfdx

sunilb

okay, so the interior looks great! the exterior seems a bit dull to me. not to thrilled with the new 3-series exterior either.

will be interesting to hear how this car drives, and how they price it...

maxhonda99

The IS introduced in Geneva is the IS220d not IS200h. I don't think there will be a hybrid IS220. The picture of the IS with the single rear exhaust is the IS220d.

wale_bate1

Yeah, the 220 is a "d".

Big intro for euro market, having a diesel.

The exterior is a null, in my book. It's updated and clean. Those are the good points. It's also fairly uninspired, blending in with much of the other offerings of the last couple of years. It's very Toyota; failing utterly to offend any audience, but at the same time failing utterly to inspire. The nose is so very Acura.

The interior looks better. Losing the corrugations on the dash and losing the insert panels on the upper doors is a plus, but other than that, it's really not so far a cry from the current interior. There is some new aluminized plastic and plood, but it is still a collection of many different textures, colors and patterns. Again, it's updated, but not exceptional. I'm OK with it, but would sooner lose the wood which looks out of place and out of character. A big plus is integration of the LCD, as is inclusion of controls on the wheel.

From what I can see they avoided the LS/ES/GS lazyboy lounger gathered leathers that I had so dreaded, which leads me to believe they may still have some of the support of the current seats. I can't tell if they're showing perfed leather or not, though. I hope they are still going that way; it's a selling point for me.

Those gauges look nothing like the ES cluster, and look like typical well-executed standard gauges from the pics. That's another plus. Even though I love the current chronometer gauge cluster, this one looks easier to live with.

I'll have to see this thing in person now. It's not as bad as I feared aesthetically, but it's no Sophia Loren either.

Anybody got actual verified specs yet?

blueguydotcom

It's bland looking. But in the end I will not buy the car based on the exterior.

Things that matter:
1. Driving dynamics on par with my 330i Performance Package.
2. An engine on par or better than my 3.0.
3. Manual short-throw 6 speed.
4. Low, comfortable, sport sedan seating position. (big reason I can't buy a G35).

Things that are neat but I can live with or without:
1. Nice interior
2. Backup monitor
3. Xenon
4. Keyless start

Big reason I'm considering the IS - reliability. I trust Lexus.

It all comes down to driving dynamics, engine performance and reliability. Lexus may be the company that finally gives me all three.

oac

In my books looks good, not great, but good enough. It is clean, non-offensive, but not very dramatic either. Sorta conservative !

But look at those wheels.... Phat ! With the lowering of the car, double wishbone suspension front and rear, and those 18" wheels, one may speculate excellent handling and driving dynamics for this new IS. It better be....

The interior is absolutely stunning !! A breath of fresh air against the spartan BMW interior. The 2.5L variant will have the 6MT, so even with the 3L 245hp motor and weight around 3300Ib, that should scoot to mid-6s 0-60. However, the real gem should be the 3.5L variant. Hopefully it will arrive here by Fall.

Anyone heard of the pricing ?

wale_bate1

Wait a sec here BGDC; I haven't read you in a year or maybe two, but weren't you People's Advocate for the G35? You ended up in a 330?

There's a story there!

Yes, at this point, given that it's not hideous, and if it's not bigger than the current 3-series, it will come down to actual driving...

blueguydotcom

I bought a 2003 330i in May of 03. The G35 manual (in 03) felt notchy and the car did some unsettling things at very high speeds. I actually had the backend lift off the ground on one sweeping corner on a hill.

Once I drove a 330i performance package, I knew I couldn't settle for anything else.

If that IS350 does come out by may of 06 (when my lease ends), I'll be a happy little monkey. That's assuming of course that it handles well too!

tsx24

The gasoline-engined IS250 and diesel-powered IS220d unveiled at the Pal Expo are for the European market; we'll see the U.S.-spec IS at the New York auto show later this month.

Built at a new plant in Poland, the 2.2-liter, all-aluminum, direct-injection four-cylinder produces 177 hp and a hefty 295 lb-ft of torque, while the 2.5-liter, gasoline V-6 also features direct injection and pumps out 204 hp and 184 lb-ft. Both engines can be mated to a six-speed manual transmission, and the V-6 is also available with a six-speed manu-matic

With a wheelbase that's more than two inches longer and a body that's three inches wider and 3.5 inches longer overall than the outgoing IS, the new car has a much roomier interior, especially in the rear seat.

Highlights include an input port for your iPod, optional Mark Levinson audio, a navigation system with a rear-view camera, and a total of ten air bags. Other safety equipment includes available swiveling Xenon headlights, radar-sensed, pre-crash seatbelt tensioners, and Lexus's advanced stability control system. Unfortunately, the is no button by which a keen driver can completely disable the stability control, which is a major deficit when compared with the 3-series.

Powertrains for the U.S. won't be confirmed until the New York show. Toyota has a 3.0-liter version of the IS250's new 2.5-liter V-6, but there's also the new 3.5-liter V-6 that recently debuted in the reworked Avalon. So, whether our car will again be called the IS300 or will wear an IS350 badge remains to be seen.

We do know that there will not be another Sportcross wagon version of the IS, but other iterations are definitely on the way. Likely candidates for IS body style #2 include a convertible hard-top coupe inspired by the LF-C show car that debuted at last year's New York auto show.

ivan_99

Pics if some have not seen these yet.

ivan_99

wale_bate1

That's a good closeup. Perfed leather.

This thing may not be a total loss after all...

sunilb

I wonder if the 6speed version will lose the wood in the center and gains more alumnium and/or black?
Car looks a bit narrow too, esp compared to the new 3-series.

Anyone know when the "first drives" [by magazines] will start occurring?

speedlux

This is much better than the pics.
http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/amaze/live_hb.asx

Will someone post bmw3 pic, interior and exterior to compare its?

wale_bate1

That's funny, sunlib, because I was thinking that the interior shots of the front don't look that different from the current IS in terms of size, which to me would be a huge plus. A luxury sedan has a more open feel; a sports sedan necessarily, IMO, has to have a closer, more cocooning feel to it. The pics don't look too expansive which gives me hope.

I'm still at:
Exterior - neither plus nor minus; doesn't repel, doesn't excite
Interior - improved; much looks similar to the current, and some that has changed appears for the better.

Perfed leather and a close cockpit will go a long way in my book.

kyfdx

All of this talk about the IS250... might just be for the European market?

Now that I think about it, it probably would make the most sense for Lexus to just bring one model to the U.S.... An IS300 with 245 HP...

Something tells me, that might be it...

wale_bate1

Except for the fact that Clements (Lexus US) and company have repeatedly insisted there will be a "range" of engine options for us.

Hmmm...

If the car weighs in at or below the current model, then 245 seems unnecessary to me as an opener.

That's just me of course

kyfdx

Almost every "new" car seems to be heavier than the last... I don't really see it coming in lighter..

If they really expected to knock the 3-series off it's throne, then they would have to come with a range of choices... But, if they just want a big piece of the action, then one engine would do... Look at the G35...

Not to mention, how it would simplify U.S. distribution, to only have one model.... Much less inventory needed for dealers, as well..

tsx24

It may be the 3.0 and 3.5 - just as we hoped. This would make sense considering the GS uses the 3.0 and 4.3.

Please remember the old I6 3.0 is very heavy, and using an all aluminum engine will probably save 200 pounds off the bat. The old GS300 was 3649 pounds and the new GS300 is 3536.

dl7265

Why does it have a Tacoma center stack ?

DL

blueguydotcom

245 hp doesn't seem like much. 0-60 times over 6 seconds = BGDC doesn't buy an IS for sure.

I want mid-5s stock. Otherwise, I should just buy a TSX for 25k and live with the decent power.

tsx24

It depends on the weight. If they can bring the IS300 in 100 pounds lighter than the previous model, I think 245 hp / 230 ft-lb is plenty.

wale_bate1

Mid-sixes wouldn't bother me in the least. It's the corners (as always) that count. Getting into it off the line can be someone else's gig.

If I'm going to go that way personally, I've got other options to look at.

nippononly

several times that there will be a range of engines for the next IS, why are we suddenly doubting it? And I will bet they will not hold back the 3.5 from their raciest model, so expect 300 hp out of the uptrim variant.

The question then will be if they can keep the price of the IS350 at or under the price of the 330i. if they can, I really think this sleek car will steal BMW's sales left and right.

Now as for me, I am with wale: the corners are just as important (if not more so) as off the line performance. I would be in an IS250.

I read somewhere that because of PETA's insistent requests, Mercedes will now be offering cloth seats as a no-cost option on some sedans (leather comes from animals - get the connection?). I would love it if Lexus would do the same thing for the IS - I would have cloth seats given the choice.

wale_bate1

Have you seen the cloth in a tC, Nippon?

I haven't personally, but I'm trying to convince my FIL that the car is a candidate for his next one (based on his new parameters), and the pics look particularly good.

I'm a dead cow kinda guy m'self (I figure if I eat 'em I should try and use the by-products!), but only if it's fairly firm, and I definitely prefer the perforated stuff.

nippononly

I have no issue on principle with the use of leather, I just much prefer cloth for myself. And yes, wale, I have seen the cloth in a tC, and that would be perfectly fine - it is very breathable and comfortable, with good lateral support (no sliding, and at least in the tC the seats have good bolsters too).

It is similar to the material they use in the Celica and the Matrix, and now for '05, the RSX as well.

lenscap

The 3.5 should make the IS 350 quite quick. One of the car magazines (I can't recall which one) tested the new Avalon going 0-60 in 6.5 seconds with its 3.5 engine. The IS will be a lighter car and have more horsepower, so I expect it to be quicker than that.

315 hp (as has been projected) is not so unbelievable. The G35 has 298 now, and the TL has 270.

As an aside, the perforated seats are for the ventilation/cooling feature - the fans draw air through the tiny holes to cool you off in hot weather.

kyfdx

Well.. it isn't like Mercedes has to make cloth interiors especially for us... they just have to import them. They already make cloth interiors in Europe...

wale_bate1

I think, rather than cloth, I might personally consider a full Alcantara option. I mean the stuff was developed for F1 cockpits and such, it wears like leather, looks like pigskin, is more readily cleaned than cloth, provides good breathability, and is as non-slip a surface as you can get on a seat without using walnut shells (old maritime trick)!

Just a thought.

Don't hold back there tsx, tell us the real deal...

wale_bate1

Good point.

tsx24

hahah well I don't mind if they bring the cloth...just dont do it on peta's request. Why didn't they ever do that for their customer's?

blueguydotcom

I want off-the-line and great handling and near luxury. The 330i performace pack was the only car I could find with all 3. That's why i have high hopes for the 3.5 IS. Give me those three and reliability...heaven.

oac

Source: www.autoindex.org

"CHASSIS AND SUSPENSION

With a body shell of exceptional torsional stiffness, featuring aluminium bonnet, suspension members and powerplants to reduce overall weight, the next generation IS is wider and lower than its competitors. The resultant low centre of gravity combines with a sophisticated suspension system and a new electric power steering to afford the new Lexus exceptional driving dynamics without compromising the marque’s legendary ride quality.

Suspension
The new Lexus IS’ lightweight, double wishbone front suspension features an aluminium front knuckle and high-tensile steel front lower arm to provide improved body control over rough surfaces, linear yaw response, precise steering control and high straight line stability.

To the rear, a new multi-link system with toe control arms and an aluminium rear axle carrier offers excellent ride comfort allied to high cornering stability. New high performance shock absorbers with an increased piston diameter improve steering feel and body control, as well as reducing impact shock transmission through the bodywork.

STEERING

The next generation IS features a brand new, speed-sensitive, electrically assisted power steering system, superior to comparable hydraulic systems in offering perceptible fuel savings, noise free operation and smooth linear feedback to the driver. In addition, a lower gear ratio provides an enhanced, more direct steering feel."

wco81

What is it, a simple Aux. jack?

Or something more involved like steering wheel controls, charging and song display on the dash?

wale_bate1

Oh sweet lordy, I hope it doesn't end up with "...the marque’s legendary ride quality..."!

Blecch!

Other than that little geriatic garnering gem, it's all good assuming the steering actually works (unlike Bimmer's earlier attempts, IIRC)...

kyfdx

I was actually going to let that part slide.. lol.

lexusguy

I have to say, while so far I am thoroughly underwhelmed by the GS, Lexus may have really gotten this one right. Eagerly awaiting a first drive. Hopefully it wont have GS's "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!" stability system. That would definitely be a deal breaker for me.

ivan_99

wale_bate1

Good thing Lexus styling is never, ever derivative...
;-)

chris65amg

I'm looking for a car in that segment .yeah, me and wife have an odd leasing/buying schemo thing. We both usually lease, unless we really want to keep the car. Such was the case with my 04 Corolla, which I had messed with (wife loved that...sarcasm) and now I want to sell it to some kid....

Anyway, I am putting a whole lotta faith in this new IS. It better be good....

I hope that they have the 3.5 L.... but displacement is not everything, as BMW is constantly proving....

gotenks243

"I would love it if Lexus would do the same thing for the IS - I would have cloth seats given the choice."

Lexus has always had cloth standard on the IS300. In fact, the only two I've ever ridden in were cloth cars. I don't see why they wouldn't do the same with the IS250. They have to keep a low, base-model MSRP to quote in the ads, after all.

Probably the only reason they did it the first time around was to be able to say "The Lexus IS300... starting at under thirty thousand," but hey, I don't care why they offer it, as long as they offer it.

And how does advocating cloth seats put animals ahead of humans? I absolutely HATE the leather seats I have now... way too hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Good quality cloth seats are as good for us as they are for the cows.

Mike

lexusguy

Gotta say I disagree there. I hate cloth seats. They just dont hold up. I treat my cars with Mothers leather conditioners, and when I sell them, the seats look almost factory fresh. Leather is just more comfortable.

wale_bate1

I don't hate cloth, I just love leather. I use Lexol and like LG, mine look as good the day I turn the car as the day I bought it.

Just so long as it isn't that squooshy gathered stuff.

Mike, if you've only been in cloth-equipped IS examples, you're pretty well in the minority I think. When I shopped for my car, I never saw even one cloth interior. Leather or Alcantara/leather packages were all I ever saw.

But yes, you could certainly order cloth from day one...

oac

I don't think status-concsious Cali would go for cloth in a car marketed as a "luxury" car, even an entry-lux like the IS. Maybe in mid-West or NE or South, it may happen, but in Cali ? Forget it. I have cloth in my Matrix, and ain't bothered by it, but my Seq and LS are all leather-clad. Leather is just far easier to clean, and more tolerant of abuse from the kids....

wale_bate1

That's why I like the idea of an Alacantara option. The driver's grip of high quality cloth with the look of pigskin and the ease of leather.

One thing that I very much like about the S4 range is that they offer the Recaro seats with Alcantara center panels. Even as a leather fan, that arrangement has my attention. Very nice.

blueguydotcom

Wow, different worlds. I've never experienced sliding in any leather seats but I'm a small guy who gets wrapped up in sporty seating.

As for Alcantara - I avoided that stuff like the plague on my zhp. I made sure to get a car with leather as I found the Alcantara to be excessively hot (much like cloth which is way too warm for my tastes) and felt it was out of place in a entry-lux car.

nippononly

Lexus will continue to offer a cloth-seated base in the new IS, I kinda had the impression they were making the new model a little more "grown up", and in the luxury marque world, grown up means leather seats standard. No cloth anywhere to be seen...which means I would rule it out, most likely.

If I stick to cars stickering under $25K, I can pretty much always find cloth.

wale_bate1

I think it's abhorrent that we in the US equate cloth with cheap or non-lux, but there it is. The stigma does exist for a fact.

I think there are a lot of folks who miscalculate the real advantages and disadvantages on both sides of the fence.

So BGDC's butt is jus' too dang hot for anything but leather, eh? Don't let that get around in Santa Monica!
;-)