Yes it's been done many, many times. Not during the hp wars of the last 5 years but it's not that rare.
As for slower, you're assuming the engine makes less torque or at a higher rpm and that the gearing isn't better? There are many ways to make more with seemingly less. Ask BMW...
That makes no sense. If Lexus shied away from the 3.0L because there was already an IS300, why release a brand new GS300 and GS430? You'll also notice that Mercedes 320 and 430 engines made it through several new model releases without complaints.
Nobody is going to use the 3.3L engine for anything. That engine will continue in the Camry\ES until most likely the '07 redesign, where it will be replaced by the new 3.0. Since the Highlander and RX are based around Camry and ES, they may switch engines as well, and the 3.3L will finally be buried. Or it may possibly continue until the next redesign for RX. Lexus would never use the 3.3L for a performance car. Its more than 12 years old, and was never designed for that application.
I had to do some digging in Edmunds because a friend of mine and I were talking about this not long ago.
Up until 1999 Mercedes Benz equipped their SL500 convertibles with a V8 that put out 315hp/345# torque. Since then their V8 puts out 302hp/339# torque. Curb weight difference was 44 pounds. I don't remember MB owners getting up in arms over that new model revision for the "weaker" V8.
So...you are telling me that the official specs on the RX400h in the Lexus website is wrong about using the 3.3L as a hybrid (Toyota also mentions using it for the hybrid Highlander in their site)? Seems to me that they plan on using the 3.3L for a while, at least the next couple of years or so.
Seems to me that it would be a waste to not extend the life of the engine by trickling it down to the other models that *could* use the 3.3. Saves them money, but improves the engine's power output and fuel efficiency.
But I wouldn't bring the 2.5 here unless it had MORE power than the outgoing 3.0 (218).
They can tune it to 220HP and sell it as a more efficient engine that is stronger than the outgoing, which is what Toyota has been doing with each generation, more and more, or MUCH more power and the same economy.
I fully expect the 2.5 to come here with 220HP.
I'll roll with the rumors of a 3.5 with nothing in between.
So the 3.0 will come in 2007 with 255-260HP. Or 2008, but it will be there soon enough.
If there is that big a spread in power and displacement, the pricebetween trims will be equally great, with a 350 in the $37-38k range.
I would offer all three engines initially, then drop the 2.5, make the 3.0 the base with 20 extra HP for 2008, plus add the hybrid.
IF we get the IS250, it will have virtually the same specs quoted above.. HP between 200-205..
I'll also guess that we WILL get the IS300.. with the same HP as the GS300... 245 HP..
And.. the 3.3 litre? Not for "new" Lexi, I don't think... Didn't Toyota already come out with a new 3.5 litre in the Avalon with 280 HP.. If there is going to be a bigger engine, surely they would use that, rather than the 3.3
This week's Automotive News (a well-respected trade magazine for dealers and industry insiders) had a short story on the new IS. From the article:
"The automaker will offer a 2.5-liter, 208-hp V-6 in the United States and Europe. Top end power for the IS will come from a 3.5-liter V-6 engine in the United States. Lexus has not disclosed its horsepower. A Lexus spokesman says the division anticipates that 20 percent to 25 percent of IS buyers in the United States will opt for the larger engine."
Later in the article it says the 3.5 "will be substantially more powerful" than the 2.5. Sales will start in October in both the U.S. and Europe. Also, Geneva show reaction was summarized as "Lexus is gaining credibility for design."
I see what you're saying. The main reason I say 280hp is that if they make it 300hp, that's the same as the V8 in the GS430 and LS430. I dunno if they'd want to do that, or hold off until the GS/LS460 come out.
Jmess will pop in from time to time here. He's got a SportCross too, in blue.
Wagons rule, man. ;-)
A3 looks like it will be joined by an RS3 at some point. The A4 will certainly have an S4 or RS4 variant here. Joy over the E90 depends on which motor they ship to us. The 325iT was slightly underpowered. What worked in a sedan didn't make, IMO, the transition to a wagon all that well. Part of how I ended up in the IS...
What Im saying is that 3.3L engine will never be used for a RWD, "performance" Lexus. Going all the way back to the '93 ES300 and GS300, the GS used the Supra inline. They wouldnt use the Camry 6 in a RWD car, and they wont start doing it now. I dont know how hard it will be to change engines in the RX400h, but the new 3.0L, 245hp V6 that Lexus just released in the new GS is significantly more advanced, more powerful, AND more fuel efficient than the 3.3L. The next RX will either be RX300 again, or RX350. Probably the latter, detuned a bit.
I ordered a C6 coupe a few weeks ago. The wife decided that she wanted to keep her Accord so I ended up selling the SportCross back to the local Lexus dealer on Monday. She has no interest in sporty cars even though she really liked the way the SportCross looked and drove.
Anyway I will probably lurk around and occasionally lash out if anyone unfairly attacks the old IS300. Probably one of the best cars I have owned, overall.
When I drove the C6 I immediately missed the linear steering that the IS300 has. I did find the C6 has a little more lowend torque. The LS2 is a real hammer. The one I drove had the 2:73 rearend and the one I ordered has the 3:15 which should give it even more grunt. And in deference to my esteemed colleague Mr. Reiz. The C6 has a real limited slip diff like real sports sedans/cars are supposed to have.
Triple shame on BMW if they don't include one as an option with the new 330. One can also hope the Lexus won't be stupid enough neuter the IS3x00 either.
Cool car! I just hope that its not in "arrest-me-red". The C6 is the first Vette that Chevy has produced since the '70s that doesnt make me want to vomit. The C5 may have finally brought real sports car handling, but the big body, pop-up lights and AWFUL interior completely turned me off to the '97-05 car.
I'm going to miss having one more "voice of understanding" when it comes to the best wagon on the road, but my loss is clearly a big grin for you!
I will take your advice on the S4 Avant (or RS4 Avant by the time I do it) to heart. If the A3 3.2 fails in any manner to provide the necessary thrills, and lust factor, a 4 will be in the serious running for the next Waler...
I am going with Arctic White and red leather. I am hoping white will attract less attention. GM builds far too many black and red vettes in my opinion but that seems to be the colors that the majority of old raisins like me want. The average age of a vette buyer is 52. Probably a pretty boring group to hang around with at a party but it helps keep the insurance rates down :-).
I also agree with you on how disappointing the Vettes have been styling wise in the past.
So enough about Vettes. I am looking forward to seeing where Lexus is going with the IS3?0.
Also think Mr. Wale really needs a V8 under the hood :-) So GS430 with the new V8 in 07 ??
6.5 should be no problem at all for an IS350. The G35 can do that with 280hp and a 5-speed. The IS350 should have even more power an will have an extra gear.
Manuals are available only in the base models with lacklustre engine power1
This is an American concept that manuals are somehow for the cheap cars.
Manuals are not available in the higher priced performance models.
Really? you should tell porsche, BMW, Ferrari, etc. They either have real manuals or those dorky SMGs. The automatics in MBs are traditional automatics - ie torque converter.
This seems apparent with the new Audis and Mercedes Benzes and various Japanese marques.
Audi has SMGs - DSG I believe it's called - and manuals on the performance models. MB is so out of touch it's sick. And Infiniti offers manuals still on its G (thank god as the car's unbearable with an automatic).
Why don't you explain your logic? Because many brands that are catering to lazy americans, I should fall in lock step with them, cease my desire to control the engine and just press the gas pedal? Golly, that'd sure make driving fun.
Ahh, but DSG is more at a manual with an automatic double clutch. I'm very interested in that box. All the control of a manual, with faster shifts than a manual, and none of the system loss of a torque converter. Better acceleration times and (apparently) identical mileage, too.
To tack on, though, I think it's silly not to offer manuals across the range for any car with sporting pretensions. That leaves an awful lot of cars out of the picture...
I'm sorry guys but the stick is on its last days in the luxury car. It will continue of course in cars like the A4 2.0T, TSX, etc, but if you move up to midsize, your choice will either be an SMG, CVT, or conventional automatic.
If it comes down to it, then we will have to make do with the smg. I've read in two places now that two different publications are discussing 4 door E90 M3s. If this rumor proves true I know I will either have to learn to like the SMG or simply not get an M3 (BMW supposedly is only going to offer SMGs in new M models). As I've lusted after the M3 since the E30 (and loved the e36 4 door m3), my ultimate car is still an m3 with 4 doors.
Decision time. Of ourse if Lexus really does produce only an auto IS350, then my decision will be scary easy. And scary pricey!
is my choice, with the 6-speed stick. I know it may not happen, but still I hope.....
Stick shifts are becoming rarer due in large part to the lack of market demand in sufficient numbers to justify putting them in cars. Try buying/selling a stick shift car and see the universe of buyers shrink to a miniscule. That is not in the best interest of car manufacturers. Hence the demise of stick for slush boxes....But we can hope that there are cars that will continue the tradition through eternity.... Porsche anyone ?
Did I mention BMW? I dont think so! I mentioned Audi and MB and Japanese marques.
The new Audi A4 6 cyl. and I believe the new VW Passat 6 cyl. will be only in automatic vs. a manual 4 cy./
The MB, I believe that is self explanatory!
Japanese marques---Acura RL versus the TL with manual(both are based on the Accord platform). The infiniti M45 will not be manual but the the G35 is!(are not both based on the same RWD platform?).
Ferrari and Porsche? Unlike the majority of hp fanatics, both marques do not impress me at all. It is just too easy to manufacture a high performance vehicle at an idiotically high price. Any car manufacturer can do that! If Yugo could charge Ferrari prices, I am sure Yugo would be able to manufacture equivalent Ferrari models and with better reliablity. With high prices Yugo would be able to overpay for the best automotive engineers in this globe. It is a bigger challenge to produce high performance vehicles at more reasonable price. A 4 cyl. S2000 impresses me more than the Porsche Boxster(even the new and improved version). The Honda provides more bang for the buck.
The BMW M3 or new Audi RS4 provides more bang for the buck than any Ferrari on this planet.
Even if I was a a frugal billionaire (oh I wish I wish) ---I would pick a BMW M3 over any Ferrari any day. More bang for the bucks.
That is my own opinion and I know very few will share my opinion. But remember this is just my personal opinion and not a scientific fact.
"Even if I was a a frugal billionaire (oh I wish I wish) ---I would pick a BMW M3 over any Ferrari any day."
Ok that frugal billionaire statement is a bit silly. In fact an actual frugal billionaire would pick a Lincoln Town Car over any Lexus IS, Audi RS4 or BMW M3. His name is Warren Buffet.
How so? They offer a manual with either engine the 4 or larger 6 in the C-Class, like everyone else in their entry level cars. They also offer a manual in the SLK V6 too? The only place they don't offer a manual is in the E-Class, but other than BMW nobody else offers a manual there either. Even with their AMGs they have no trouble selling them without a manual, but I think the SLK55 and C55 models should have a manual, but the rest simply don't need it nor would the market support a manual in a SL or S-Class AMG vehicle.
I think manual transmissions are losing favor with customers for several reasons. Now of course there are the select few who would take a manual over anything else, but we're just talking majority here.
1) SMG/DSG etc - Takes best of both worlds, Full Automatic Mode, as well as manual mode with no clutch, which shifts faster than a standard manual (for drivers of performance cars, who embrace new technology likely 25-35 year old males)
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
1) SMG/DSG etc - Takes best of both worlds, Full Automatic Mode, as well as manual mode with no clutch, which shifts faster than a standard manual (for drivers of performance cars, who embrace new technology likely 25-35 year old males)
where is the good world in that? more technology = more breakdowns. i don't trust ANY autmatic to last precisely because it has electronics and servos and automatic parts. SMGs = big headache when they go out at 100k miles. The beauty of a stick - it lasts and lasts and replacing one is cheap and easy.
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
Pure laziness. Put a BMW in second gear and without touching the clutch you can go from 3 mph to 62 mph. Is depressing a clutch once in awhile that tough?
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Don't much care about mileage as I'm always well below epa figures.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
I'm not sure where you get more engaging, pressing buttons on a steering wheel is not more engaging. It's Playstation driving. Don't care if the shifts are 10 times faster in an smg, no third pedal, no gear to select = boring. What's your left leg supposed to do in an smg/auto? It just sits there. And what about the fun little trick of braking, tapping the gas and hitting the clutch all while dropping two gears before you enter a corner? gone.
Those who are opposed to manuals, just don't get it. It's not about speed or efficiency, it's about being an active biomechanical member of the vehicle. It's the same reason most purists hate BMW's active steering. It's replacing a real physical connection to the road with some video gamey. Yuck.
car mag editors are calling the active steering on the new 3-series "gluey and artificial" and wandering all over the road with it in some cases. Thank goodness it's optional, and let's hope Toyota doesn't blow it that bad when electric steering inevitably appears in Lexi everywhere...
BTW, I have read reviews where SMG is called the worst of both worlds: smoother shifts can be made with a manual under all but pedal-floored applications, and it is herky-jerky when operated in automatic mode. The SMG may be able to make quicker gear shifts than a human can do with a manual shifter, but if it throws your passengers into the back seat while doing so, is it better?!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1) SMG/DSG etc - Takes best of both worlds, Full Automatic Mode, as well as manual mode with no clutch, which shifts faster than a standard manual (for drivers of performance cars, who embrace new technology likely 25-35 year old males)
where is the good world in that? more technology = more breakdowns. i don't trust ANY autmatic to last precisely because it has electronics and servos and automatic parts. SMGs = big headache when they go out at 100k miles. The beauty of a stick - it lasts and lasts and replacing one is cheap and easy.
Are you the type of person who still uses 8 tracks because cassettes break, and cd's get scratched? If you don't want to embrace technology...then don't. I'm just giving my opinion here and explaining WHY manufacturers are not offering manuals much anymore.
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
Pure laziness. Put a BMW in second gear and without touching the clutch you can go from 3 mph to 62 mph. Is depressing a clutch once in awhile that tough?
...when it's 500 times each day, yes it's too tough. After driving 65 miles to work everyday through stop and go LA traffic in my 5 speed BMW Z3, my foot would ache because of the heavy clutch. Next car I got was tiptronic auto. AHHHHH...much better, again this is the majority of drivers. If they deal with traffic, the tiptronic is a good solution to retain some control of the gears.
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Don't much care about mileage as I'm always well below epa figures.
Well you are one of the few who really doesn't care about gas milesage.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
I'm not sure where you get more engaging, pressing buttons on a steering wheel is not more engaging. It's Playstation driving. Don't care if the shifts are 10 times faster in an smg, no third pedal, no gear to select = boring. What's your left leg supposed to do in an smg/auto? It just sits there. And what about the fun little trick of braking, tapping the gas and hitting the clutch all while dropping two gears before you enter a corner? gone.
When I say more engaging, I mean, more engaging to drive than a pure automatic...you can't crash and die on playstation buddy. Get real.
Those who are opposed to manuals, just don't get it. It's not about speed or efficiency, it's about being an active biomechanical member of the vehicle. It's the same reason most purists hate BMW's active steering. It's replacing a real physical connection to the road with some video gamey. Yuck.
I don't think people are OPPOSED TO manuals per se, they just see better options to suit their needs and wants....by the way, you CAN enjoy driving with out being a "purist".
Car and Driver just reviewed the Z4 3.0 with SMG and ripped the tranny up one side and down the other. Slow to execute, occasionally uncooperative; not good.
Most street-level SMGs garner the same kind of condemnation. These are not the same as the boxes offered on your average Ferrari or F-1 machine, though, save in general format, AFAIK.
I have not heard any such complaints about DSG. So far the only down side seems to be that it can't take the torque from any thing bigger than the 3.2, but that will likely change. I think it is the future...
BMW's sequential manual seems to be one of the worst ones out right now, hence all of the negative comments. I've seen very good marks for Audi's DSG, and I've driven the Maserati with its SMG myself, and found it to be quite a hoot, especially compared to my XK's boring J-gate blandness.
Hhehee, thats a pretty tall order. (No offence ladies). Some of the women on 5th gear have some real talent behind the wheel. But, when it comes to some of the most challenging cars of all time, like the Ferrari F40 or the 911 RS from the '70s, it just takes a man, baby.
"The Future Of The Manual Transmission" in News & Views. Check it out.
It's relevant to mention here, given the availability on some IS models, and not others. This will affect initial AND future IS sales, as it did last time around.
Comments
As for slower, you're assuming the engine makes less torque or at a higher rpm and that the gearing isn't better? There are many ways to make more with seemingly less. Ask BMW...
Nobody is going to use the 3.3L engine for anything. That engine will continue in the Camry\ES until most likely the '07 redesign, where it will be replaced by the new 3.0. Since the Highlander and RX are based around Camry and ES, they may switch engines as well, and the 3.3L will finally be buried. Or it may possibly continue until the next redesign for RX. Lexus would never use the 3.3L for a performance car. Its more than 12 years old, and was never designed for that application.
Up until 1999 Mercedes Benz equipped their SL500 convertibles with a V8 that put out 315hp/345# torque. Since then their V8 puts out 302hp/339# torque. Curb weight difference was 44 pounds. I don't remember MB owners getting up in arms over that new model revision for the "weaker" V8.
CrimsonO2
HP doth not a car make...
;-)
Seems to me that it would be a waste to not extend the life of the engine by trickling it down to the other models that *could* use the 3.3. Saves them money, but improves the engine's power output and fuel efficiency.
http://www.lexus.com/microsite/rx400h/iframe_rx400h.html?s_ocid=20088
Besides, like I said, what I think is all conjecture. Hence why I said I can't wait until the NY Show.
CrimsonO2
Displacement (cm3) 2499
Engine type V6
Fuel type Petrol, 95 octane or +
Valve mechanism 24 valves, Dual VTT-I
Bore x stroke (mm) 83.0 x 77.0
Compression ratio 12.0:1
Max. power (DIN hp@rpm) 204@6400
Max. power (kW@rpm) 150@6400
Max. torque (Nm@rpm) 250@3800
Transmission
Type Rear-wheel drive
Gearbox type 6M/T or 6A/T
Differential gear ratio
Suspensions
Type Fr: double wishbone, Rr: multi-link
Stabilizer Torsion bar
Shock absorber Monotube type
Brakes
Front Ventilated discs
Rear Solid discs
ABS yes
EBD - Electronic Brake-force Distribution yes
BA - Brake Assist yes
TRC - Traction Control yes
VSC - Vehicle Stability Control yes
VDIM no
Tyres and wheels
Standard 205/55R16
Optional 1 Fr: 225/45R17
Rr: 245/45R17
Optional 2 Fr: 225/40R18
Rr: 255/40R18
Optional 3
Steering
Type Rack & pinion, EPS
Ratio 15.0:1
Turns (lock to lock) 2,73
Minimum turning radius - Tyre (m) 5,1
Exterior dimensions
Overall length (mm) 4 575
Overall width (mm) 1 800
Overall height (mm) 1 425
Wheelbase (mm) 2 730
Tread front (mm) 1 535
Tread rear (mm) 1,535
Overhang front (mm) 800
Overhang rear (mm) 1 040
Coefficient of drag (Cd) 0,27
Weight
Kerb weight (min.-max. - kg) 1.560 (A/T: 1,570)
Gross vehicle weight (kg) 2,045 (A/T: 2,055)
Towing capacity (w/brakes - kg) 1 500
Towing capacity (w/o brakes - kg) 560
Performance
Max. speed (km/h) 220
0-100 km/h (sec.) 8,4
0-400 m (sec.) 16,1
Fuel consumption (l/100 km)
Combined 9.3 (A/T: 9.9)
CO2 emissions (g/km)
Emissions level Euro IV
Combined 222 (A/T: 237)
204hp and 3432 pounds. A bit too heavy IMO.
No wonder the 0 to 62 is 8.4s.
They can tune it to 220HP and sell it as a more efficient engine that is stronger than the outgoing, which is what Toyota has been doing with each generation, more and more, or MUCH more power and the same economy.
I fully expect the 2.5 to come here with 220HP.
I'll roll with the rumors of a 3.5 with nothing in between.
So the 3.0 will come in 2007 with 255-260HP. Or 2008, but it will be there soon enough.
If there is that big a spread in power and displacement, the pricebetween trims will be equally great, with a 350 in the $37-38k range.
I would offer all three engines initially, then drop the 2.5, make the 3.0 the base with 20 extra HP for 2008, plus add the hybrid.
DrFill
I'll also guess that we WILL get the IS300.. with the same HP as the GS300... 245 HP..
And.. the 3.3 litre? Not for "new" Lexi, I don't think... Didn't Toyota already come out with a new 3.5 litre in the Avalon with 280 HP.. If there is going to be a bigger engine, surely they would use that, rather than the 3.3
Just to be clear.. I'm just guessing..
regards,
kyfdx
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IS250 RWD 6 speed Manual
IS250 AWD
IS350 RWD
Those were the pre-announced models to U.S. dealers, so I'd go with those. No IS300 yet.
I'd guess about 205 hp for the IS250 and about 280 hp for the IS350.
"The automaker will offer a 2.5-liter, 208-hp V-6 in the United States and Europe. Top end power for the IS will come from a 3.5-liter V-6 engine in the United States. Lexus has not disclosed its horsepower. A Lexus spokesman says the division anticipates that 20 percent to 25 percent of IS buyers in the United States will opt for the larger engine."
Later in the article it says the 3.5 "will be substantially more powerful" than the 2.5. Sales will start in October in both the U.S. and Europe. Also, Geneva show reaction was summarized as "Lexus is gaining credibility for design."
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=52046
As happens in most funerals, below is a Eulogy for the IS Crossover.
http://www.whatcar.com/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=213982
Morons.
But we knew that already, friend Dewey. Ah well, you can lead a horse to water...
280? The same engine and power as an avalon? I'd think they'd at least tune it for 10 more hp or go for 20 hp so they can claim 300.
Very intrigued by this car...
At least there are other wagons to pick from: BMW e90 and Audi A3 /A4 Avants.
Wagons rule, man. ;-)
A3 looks like it will be joined by an RS3 at some point. The A4 will certainly have an S4 or RS4 variant here. Joy over the E90 depends on which motor they ship to us. The 325iT was slightly underpowered. What worked in a sedan didn't make, IMO, the transition to a wagon all that well. Part of how I ended up in the IS...
Anyway I will probably lurk around and occasionally lash out if anyone unfairly attacks the old IS300. Probably one of the best cars I have owned, overall.
When I drove the C6 I immediately missed the linear steering that the IS300 has. I did find the C6 has a little more lowend torque. The LS2 is a real hammer. The one I drove had the 2:73 rearend and the one I ordered has the 3:15 which should give it even more grunt. And in deference to my esteemed colleague Mr. Reiz. The C6 has a real limited slip diff like real sports sedans/cars are supposed to have.
Triple shame on BMW if they don't include one as an option with the new 330. One can also hope the Lexus won't be stupid enough neuter the IS3x00 either.
I'm going to miss having one more "voice of understanding" when it comes to the best wagon on the road, but my loss is clearly a big grin for you!
I will take your advice on the S4 Avant (or RS4 Avant by the time I do it) to heart. If the A3 3.2 fails in any manner to provide the necessary thrills, and lust factor, a 4 will be in the serious running for the next Waler...
I also agree with you on how disappointing the Vettes have been styling wise in the past.
So enough about Vettes. I am looking forward to seeing where Lexus is going with the IS3?0.
Also think Mr. Wale really needs a V8 under the hood :-) So GS430 with the new V8 in 07 ??
MB C350...remember that is an AUTOMATIC...I seen 6.4. And an amazing 6.9 with the diesel.
It can hit 60 in 2 seconds flat. I still wouldn't want an automatic. Automatic = no fun.
Manuals are available only in the base models with lacklustre engine power1
Manuals are not available in the higher priced performance models.
This seems apparent with the new Audis and Mercedes Benzes and various Japanese marques.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This is an American concept that manuals are somehow for the cheap cars.
Manuals are not available in the higher priced performance models.
Really? you should tell porsche, BMW, Ferrari, etc. They either have real manuals or those dorky SMGs. The automatics in MBs are traditional automatics - ie torque converter.
This seems apparent with the new Audis and Mercedes Benzes and various Japanese marques.
Audi has SMGs - DSG I believe it's called - and manuals on the performance models. MB is so out of touch it's sick. And Infiniti offers manuals still on its G (thank god as the car's unbearable with an automatic).
Why don't you explain your logic? Because many brands that are catering to lazy americans, I should fall in lock step with them, cease my desire to control the engine and just press the gas pedal? Golly, that'd sure make driving fun.
To tack on, though, I think it's silly not to offer manuals across the range for any car with sporting pretensions. That leaves an awful lot of cars out of the picture...
Decision time. Of ourse if Lexus really does produce only an auto IS350, then my decision will be scary easy. And scary pricey!
Stick shifts are becoming rarer due in large part to the lack of market demand in sufficient numbers to justify putting them in cars. Try buying/selling a stick shift car and see the universe of buyers shrink to a miniscule. That is not in the best interest of car manufacturers. Hence the demise of stick for slush boxes....But we can hope that there are cars that will continue the tradition through eternity.... Porsche anyone ?
April 2005
'06 RX400h
September 2005
'06 LX470 with the bigger motor
'06 SC430 refreshed
October 2005
'06 IS250
6 speed stick & slush box
220hp
$32K and up
'06 IS350
- 6-speed slushbox ONLY (sadly)
- 325+hp
- "Sport Package" option w/18" wheels
- top out @ $45k
March 2006
'07 ES350: 3.5L motor and a new sheet metal.
April 2006
'07 RX350: 3.5L motor as in the ES
May 2006
'07 GS450h: V6-h, will be faster than the GS430
September 2006
'07 LS460
'07 LS460h with 2 body styles, one 6" longer than regular LS
'07 GS350
'07 GS460
MY2008/2009 - projections !
IS vert, w/retractable hard top
"Super LS" (>$100K)
"SuperCoupe" projected speed >200 MPH
Phew !!! Interesting lineup, for sure....
Explain I will do so indeed!
Did I mention BMW? I dont think so! I mentioned Audi and MB and Japanese marques.
The new Audi A4 6 cyl. and I believe the new VW Passat 6 cyl. will be only in automatic vs. a manual 4 cy./
The MB, I believe that is self explanatory!
Japanese marques---Acura RL versus the TL with manual(both are based on the Accord platform). The infiniti M45 will not be manual but the the G35 is!(are not both based on the same RWD platform?).
Ferrari and Porsche? Unlike the majority of hp fanatics, both marques do not impress me at all.
It is just too easy to manufacture a high performance vehicle at an idiotically high price.
Any car manufacturer can do that! If Yugo could charge Ferrari prices, I am sure Yugo would be able to manufacture equivalent Ferrari models and with better reliablity. With high prices Yugo would be able to overpay for the best automotive engineers in this globe. It is a bigger challenge to produce high performance vehicles at more reasonable price. A 4 cyl. S2000 impresses me more than the Porsche Boxster(even the new and improved version). The Honda provides more bang for the buck.
The BMW M3 or new Audi RS4 provides more bang for the buck than any Ferrari on this planet.
Even if I was a a frugal billionaire (oh I wish I wish) ---I would pick a BMW M3 over any Ferrari any day. More bang for the bucks.
That is my own opinion and I know very few will share my opinion. But remember this is just my personal opinion and not a scientific fact.
Ok that frugal billionaire statement is a bit silly. In fact an actual frugal billionaire would pick a Lincoln Town Car over any Lexus IS, Audi RS4 or BMW M3. His name is Warren Buffet.
How so? They offer a manual with either engine the 4 or larger 6 in the C-Class, like everyone else in their entry level cars. They also offer a manual in the SLK V6 too? The only place they don't offer a manual is in the E-Class, but other than BMW nobody else offers a manual there either. Even with their AMGs they have no trouble selling them without a manual, but I think the SLK55 and C55 models should have a manual, but the rest simply don't need it nor would the market support a manual in a SL or S-Class AMG vehicle.
M
IS the LX getting redone in the fall? Or will it be the first with the new Toyota V8 (5 liter)?
DrFill
Club Lexus.
"IS the LX getting redone in the fall? Or will it be the first with the new Toyota V8 (5 liter)?"
None of the above, to my understanding. Just an upgrade of the 230hp 4.7L to the tuned 4.7L 280hp as in the '05 GX or '05 Sequoia.
1) SMG/DSG etc - Takes best of both worlds, Full Automatic Mode, as well as manual mode with no clutch, which shifts faster than a standard manual (for drivers of performance cars, who embrace new technology likely 25-35 year old males)
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
where is the good world in that? more technology = more breakdowns. i don't trust ANY autmatic to last precisely because it has electronics and servos and automatic parts. SMGs = big headache when they go out at 100k miles. The beauty of a stick - it lasts and lasts and replacing one is cheap and easy.
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
Pure laziness. Put a BMW in second gear and without touching the clutch you can go from 3 mph to 62 mph. Is depressing a clutch once in awhile that tough?
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Don't much care about mileage as I'm always well below epa figures.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
I'm not sure where you get more engaging, pressing buttons on a steering wheel is not more engaging. It's Playstation driving. Don't care if the shifts are 10 times faster in an smg, no third pedal, no gear to select = boring. What's your left leg supposed to do in an smg/auto? It just sits there. And what about the fun little trick of braking, tapping the gas and hitting the clutch all while dropping two gears before you enter a corner? gone.
Those who are opposed to manuals, just don't get it. It's not about speed or efficiency, it's about being an active biomechanical member of the vehicle. It's the same reason most purists hate BMW's active steering. It's replacing a real physical connection to the road with some video gamey. Yuck.
BTW, I have read reviews where SMG is called the worst of both worlds: smoother shifts can be made with a manual under all but pedal-floored applications, and it is herky-jerky when operated in automatic mode. The SMG may be able to make quicker gear shifts than a human can do with a manual shifter, but if it throws your passengers into the back seat while doing so, is it better?!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
where is the good world in that? more technology = more breakdowns. i don't trust ANY autmatic to last precisely because it has electronics and servos and automatic parts. SMGs = big headache when they go out at 100k miles. The beauty of a stick - it lasts and lasts and replacing one is cheap and easy.
Are you the type of person who still uses 8 tracks because cassettes break, and cd's get scratched? If you don't want to embrace technology...then don't. I'm just giving my opinion here and explaining WHY manufacturers are not offering manuals much anymore.
2) Advanced Automatics - 6 and 7 speed automatic transmissions with tiptronic shift it yourself, also provides a more engaging driving experience than pure automatic. The manual lovers who have to drive in LA/NY traffic are now content with these transmissions (those likely to choose this tranny over pure manual again is the 20-50 year old males).
Pure laziness. Put a BMW in second gear and without touching the clutch you can go from 3 mph to 62 mph. Is depressing a clutch once in awhile that tough?
...when it's 500 times each day, yes it's too tough. After driving 65 miles to work everyday through stop and go LA traffic in my 5 speed BMW Z3, my foot would ache because of the heavy clutch. Next car I got was tiptronic auto. AHHHHH...much better, again this is the majority of drivers. If they deal with traffic, the tiptronic is a good solution to retain some control of the gears.
3) Gas mileage is no longer superior with a manual. SMG, and Tiptronics are so close, and sometimes more fuel efficient than the manuals.
Don't much care about mileage as I'm always well below epa figures.
Well you are one of the few who really doesn't care about gas milesage.
Bottom line - technology is improving transmissions to be more efficient, and more engaging for the driver to the point manuals will be obsolete....almost.
I'm not sure where you get more engaging, pressing buttons on a steering wheel is not more engaging. It's Playstation driving. Don't care if the shifts are 10 times faster in an smg, no third pedal, no gear to select = boring. What's your left leg supposed to do in an smg/auto? It just sits there. And what about the fun little trick of braking, tapping the gas and hitting the clutch all while dropping two gears before you enter a corner? gone.
When I say more engaging, I mean, more engaging to drive than a pure automatic...you can't crash and die on playstation buddy. Get real.
Those who are opposed to manuals, just don't get it. It's not about speed or efficiency, it's about being an active biomechanical member of the vehicle. It's the same reason most purists hate BMW's active steering. It's replacing a real physical connection to the road with some video gamey. Yuck.
I don't think people are OPPOSED TO manuals per se, they just see better options to suit their needs and wants....by the way, you CAN enjoy driving with out being a "purist".
Most street-level SMGs garner the same kind of condemnation. These are not the same as the boxes offered on your average Ferrari or F-1 machine, though, save in general format, AFAIK.
I have not heard any such complaints about DSG. So far the only down side seems to be that it can't take the torque from any thing bigger than the 3.2, but that will likely change. I think it is the future...
Some people are content to watch, and use their remote to FF thru the slow parts.
When I find a woman who can DRIVE, I will then take the PLUNGE!
DrFill
It's relevant to mention here, given the availability on some IS models, and not others. This will affect initial AND future IS sales, as it did last time around.
DRfill