re you the type of person who still uses 8 tracks because cassettes break, and cd's get scratched? If you don't want to embrace technology...then don't. I'm just giving my opinion here and explaining WHY manufacturers are not offering manuals much anymore.
They're not offering SMGs because they're better. And the manumatic mode on automatics is a gimmick, nothing more. And those gimmicks are designed to make more money now and make infinitely more on maintenance. I have two friends with steptronic BMWs, both have dumped over 4k into replacing them. Ouch!
CDs are cheaper, sound better, last longer and a player is a commodity, thus cheap to replace. Automatic trannies have been for around decades and decades yet they're still not reliable and are still more expensive to fix than manuals. When an automatic is cheaper to replace and better, lasts longer before needing maintenance than a manual, I'll agree with your analogy. At this point SMGs/autos are still more like a laser disc or DAT (digital audio tape), they're more exespensive to buy and when they break down, replacing them is more expensive too.
...when it's 500 times each day, yes it's too tough. After driving 65 miles to work everyday through stop and go LA traffic in my 5 speed BMW Z3, my foot would ache because of the heavy clutch.
Been there, done that. Keep the car in second and if it's a 3.0 it'll crawl before stalling. Well you are one of the few who really doesn't care about gas milesage.
Uh, we bought sports sedans, not hybrids.
When I say more engaging, I mean, more engaging to drive than a pure automatic...you can't crash and die on playstation buddy. Get real.
Crashing and dying in a car is pretty remote too, imho. 280 million people and how many auto fatalities in 2004? 46000? That's like a .00016 chance and that's not including # of trips and miles. Given the miles driven, the number of cars, and the safety features today, the last thing I'm worried about in my car is death. I'm more concerned with a clunking sound or why the boob in front of me is weaving.
Ugh. Can I ask why? That car hasnt been attractive since the versions that the '05 is trying to emulate. But yeah, being on a quarter century old platform, bad shift linkage is kind of to be expected. The saddest part is thats only one of several cars Ford has based on dinosaur platforms. And the '05's V6 is still a dinosaur engine.
3:2 in favor of the IS. Not bad, Lexus. Despitr what BMW said about toning down Bangle's flame-siding or whatever it is called, there are still too many little incongruous details on the outside of the next 3. It is too busy just for the sake of being busy. The IS is so much cleaner looking.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And mine was one of those 7295 responses. Guess which car I voted for ? The new 3- style does not even come close to the new IS, which leaves me in a dilemna since I want a 330i, but certainly not the e90, as it looks, but wait to see one in person before making final decision. Buying a used e39 scares me, that's why I am currently leaning towards an IS350. But looking at the specs on that e90 330i is truly scary: 0-60 in 5.6s, 1/4-mile @ 98mph with the 6MT tranny. I want a car with those specs, gotta see what the IS350 brings to the table against the 330i besides better style to earn my $$$.
I didnt say I liked the '05. I havent liked a Mustang since Shelby days. The '93-'04 "new" Mustang, has never impressed me in the least. Uncomfortable, slow, AND it handles badly as well! What a package deal. If I wanted a car like that, I'd get a Supra.
I feel ya! It's just that I sold Fords for a time (quiet as kept), ergo my fair disdain for the brand and how they do things.
But the Mustang's interior came along nicely, as did the exterior was bold and edgy, to my eyes, with the hood scoop (non-functional) on the V8 (hate the one on the V6), and the 8 sounded great and felt even better when driven hard. Even Auto!
I can say what I want about Ford and American cars, but until you've driven a GT with the top down, and your foot down, you have missed a great ride, my friend!
My two cents on the 3's styling is the cover of C&D says it all. The front is BUSTED! Is it a CTS? No, but it has been Bangled enough. It's Rocky Balboa after 3-4 rounds. You can see the cracks starting to form. Too bad.
The profile still lokks awesome, though! Beautiful, classic design! I guess that's why those pictures are so prevelant.
The rear is too puckered, uptight.
The IS has everything flowing so gracefully, cohesively, from front to back.
Strange, but I saw a Solara Convertible today and I was like "I've seen that face before!".
It shares A LOT with the IS face. The IS is not as severe, but they are definitely bretheren.
I have. Rented one in California. While its better than the Sebring convertible (what isnt) its not exactly on my list of fun drop tops. If I wanted a car like THAT, I'd get a 350Z convertible.
The new 3 series doesnt do much for me. I really dislike those little bits of chrome on the hood above the kidney grill. I also dont like the "baby 5" interior.
speaking of familiar faces, look at a solara and 645...i swear bangle simply copied the ugly solara and made the even uglier 6 series.
BTW, why are people citing polls online? That's about as scientific as asking people at a chevy get together who makes the best cars. It only takes one major forum to get all its members to swing by a site and skew an online "poll".
Still IS 61%, BMW-3 39%. I guess beauty is not only in the eyes of the beholder? Pretty amazing when you consider the fact that there are 50:1 pupulation out there who favor BMW over Lexus. Can you imagine their pain to have to vote for IS?
If only those are the sales ratio for the Lexus...
It might take some time, but no one can bet against Toyota, not even Michael Schumacher. 1,000,000,000,000.00 Yen a year of profit can do a lot, like trashing the BMW party.
"Pretty amazing when you consider the fact that there are 50:1 pupulation out there who favor BMW over Lexus."
Is the above statistic really so shocking??
If you favor performance/handling, ofcourse BMW will win hands down over Lexus. Unlike Lexus, every BMW model is meant to be the top in terms of performance/handling.
Why would 98% of the world prefer a BMW over a Lexus? The simple answer is this: The majority of Lexus sales consists of medicore vehicles like the RX and the ES. The majority of BMW sales are 3 series based. Those stats in itself prove why 98% of the globe shrewdly would prefer a BMW.
So why does BMW not have superior sales in N. America? At an emotional level a majority favor BMW but at a logical level they choose to buy a Lexus.
Most people do not favor performance/handling as an end in itself. I can argue that the majority of N. Americans prefer to purchase a vehicle with the silky creamy smooth luxury feel of a LS, ES or RX over a competent handling BMW. I dont need a survey to prove that. The high sales volume of Lexus as a whole proves that point(especially when you consider the success of the ES/RX)!
What a bunch of crock !!! Now you do post much better than this, so what happened here ?
"Unlike Lexus, every BMW model is meant to be the top in terms of performance/handling"
And Lexus cars are all chop-liver ? How about this: unlike BMW, Lexus makes more reliable, higher quality, quieter, and more luxurious automobiles (we ain't talking of leatherette and vinyl seats here).
"Why would 98% of the world prefer a BMW over a Lexus?. The simple answer is this: The majority of Lexus sales consists of medicore vehicles like the RX and the ES"
Huh ? Which 98% of the world? Or do you mean 98% of Germans? Take off those BMW blinders !!! And calling the ES and RX mediocre is IMO silly. To you only RWD cars count. Hogwash ! Do you wonder why BMW sells an X3 and an X5 ? Maybe it has something to do with SUVs being good sellers here, eh ? Think sales volume and profit margin are important? Without the X3, where would NA sales of BMW be ?
Why not go to the BMW love-fest forum and spew your stuff over there, instead of Lexus-a-hating over here. Last I checked, this is the "Next Lexus IS Forum", not about BMW. And if many find the IS better styled than the 3-, feel free to disagree with facts, if you have any.
Could you point me to the poll you conducted with the entire world population and how 98% picked BMW? How did the people in Rawanda feel? As long as we're just making things up, I'm the king of Spain, but just part time.
In case you forgot, BMW has been around just a tad longer than Lexus, so its not really surprising that they sell more cars world wide. The new IS is only generation 2. What generation is the 3 series up to now? I think the fact that the IS can even be mentioned along side cars like the 3 series shows how quickly Toyota can get something right when they set their minds to it.
The reason people buy more RX330s than X5s is because the RX330s tend to start when you turn the key. I mean after you drive it off the lot, it STILL does that.
Interesting. I was just trying to make a point. Of course I have no idea what the ratio is. But I was thinking about the sales figure of Bmw3 vs Lexus IS300 and somehow I think maybe 50:1? It is clear to me that Toyota WANTS Europe, and with the plentyful resource, Toyota can bring out a new variation of IS every year, a new engine every two years if they want to. (maybe have to) Who knows? I would not be surprised a 400HP of V8 is in the making for next LS. Let's not forget about those Hybrid motors. I for one thinks that is going to "win the heart and mind" of the European for Toyota - Now finally free of the quota limiting its growth. The first major trouble for Euro Carmaker could be VW though, if the Jetta fail in the States, they are in deep trouble. Judging from the look of the Jetta, I think it is coming.
Doesn't seem that long ago that Toyota decided not to buy BMW (BMW was facing financial problems at the time). They had mulled it over for awhile but determined that creating their own "luxury" brand would be the appropriate course of action. They may still be working on the performance part of it. However, my money is on Toyota and "Lexus" when the dust settles. They won't win Europe over night. Don't forget Toyota's famous strategy... slow and steady (progress). It will get you every time. As a fellow Canadian all I can say is Dewey, Dewey, Dewey.
Actually, the IS220d is a much more critical car for the European market for Lexus than any hybrid version. If you dont have a diesel, you cant sell cars in Europe, plain and simple. If they can develop a HSD version of THAT engine, then they're gold.
"Could you point me to the poll you conducted with the entire world population and how 98% picked BMW? "
98% derived from the 50:1 ratio. I will leave the math to you! 50:1 ratio itself may not be statistically correct, but it is a fact that an overwhelming majority favor BMWs than a Lexus.
"Why not go to the BMW love-fest forum and spew your stuff over there, instead of Lexus-a-hating over here. "
I love the Lexus brand, especially the IS, but I am no admirer of the RX and ES. Is that a contradiction?
I hate BMW x5s and x3s, but I love BMWs. Is that a contradiction?
Of course it would be a contradiction if this is a Lexus Lovefest Forum of devoted fanatics that loves anything with a Lexus logo. In that case I apologize if I sounded offensive.
if it has been mentioned in here yet, but Autoweek, in its coverage of the Geneva show, called the new IS the most significant car at the show.
They announce that the optional engine to debut at the NY auto show will be a 3.5L. They speculate that the next gen IS will include a hybrid powertrain. And as to styling: "the style is punctuated by concave and convex shapes that aren't busy - a far cry from previous Japanese design attempts." Needless to say, I agree.
Oh yeah, and dewey, you are just being silly. Sales may not prove much of anything, but one thing they do demonstrate is what you're talking about - peoples' preference. And Lexus sells more. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Sales may not prove much of anything, but one thing they do demonstrate is what you're talking about - peoples' preference. And Lexus sells more."
Pardon my silliness, but based on your logic above the people's preference would not be Lexus or BMW. It would not be Toyota or Honda. The peoples' preference would be GM the number one seller of vehicles. :op
Anyway my future focus from now on in this forum will be the non-silly matter of the IS.
Many of you are behaving like children. If any of you are, in fact, under 13, then COPA laws prevent you from legally participating in the forums. If not, please behave accordingly.
Stick to the IS, and stay away from personal attacks.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
"How can one disagree "with facts" about how a car looks? Its styling for goodness sakes"
Read my previous post. You pretty much stated exactly my point, which is that he is free to disagree "with facts, if he has any". Meaning: styling is subjective, no factual basis for disagreement since its just an individual's opinion....
I'm really looking forward to the IS350. It has everything that the GS300 has, looks better inside and out, better handling, stronger engine, and will be cheaper. The only thing that the GS300 has over the IS350 is room.
Hopefully, the IS350's trunk opening won't be horrendously small like on the GS.
always the good canadian to admit his failures .... explains why we're such good peacekeepers... ANYWAYS... heres what i have to say about the new IS- it looks BIGGER than it actually is, and it is bigger, than its old one, which is good, because rear seat room on the IS300 was a bit tight.. as for the 3-series, the front is fine, then you look on the side and it gets a bit buys, then when you look at the back, you look away at the horrible attempt to "kick it old school" and try and take the early 90's 3-series (an awesome looking car), and then taking the back lights and overinflating them.... the IS looks WAY BETTER
I drove both the Avalon and Tacoma in the past. One thing I noticed was at Idle, that V6 engine is relatively loud comparing with the old 300 or 330 engine. Especially on the avalon, it sounds like a Truck engine. Do anyone of you who have driven the Avalon has the same feeling? I guess it is quiet possible that IS350 will be the same as Avalon (maybe a little higher output), I hope but doubt it will be any different in the sound level between the two.
Lets just hope the IS , won't have to removed from the chassis and be re welded so the cabin don't fil with rain water.. talk about quality, can we all say Kia ?
Right, but you're paying for a lot of content over a 330Ci with an M3, most notably a limited volume, expensive to produce engine. HSD doesnt work that way. It currents adds only about $3K or so to the tag, and as they expand it across more model lines, the cost over convetional engines should drop. If an IS350 costs $40K, HSD and some bigger wheels shouldnt cost ten thousand dollars.
"Read my previous post. You pretty much stated exactly my point, which is that he is free to disagree "with facts, if he has any". Meaning: styling is subjective, no factual basis for disagreement since its just an individual's opinion...."
Ok got it, he can't dislike the styling on this board. There was no point of you saying anything in the first place.
noticed this already, but Autoweek is running a big article on the new IS this week, and "speaking" in a fairly authoritative tone has stated the following:
- as a concession to the European market for its displacement taxation, the base engine will be a 2.5L V-6 making 201 hp at 6400 rpm and 184 lb-ft at 3800. They recognize that this is less than the outgoing car, but also state that the 250 will come in "somewhere below the IS300's $29,980 sticker".
- the other engine is a 3.5L V-6 (no surprise there) making more than 300 hp, and they have been told it will do 0-60 in the low 5's, making it quicker to 60 than the new 330i by almost a whole second.
They also mention that "the engines" (note the plural there) mate to a six speed manual or automatic. Manual for the 3.5? YESSSS!
The steering is electric, the interior is more conservative than the current model without being boring, the rims are 17s with optional 18s. The hood is aluminum as is the suspension.
Again, some of the things they mention are either stated so definitively or with such a level of detail (like hp ratings) it makes it hard to believe they are just speculations.
My favorite part: "park the IS and the forthcoming 3 series side by side, and reputation notwithstanding, the more visually dynamic Lexus pops as the BMW pings". :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We'll know next week. A 2.5 wouldn't surprise me in the least, just because BMW proved that horsepower wasn't everything with their last 185 hp 325. NY isn't too far away.... (timewise
Comments
They're not offering SMGs because they're better. And the manumatic mode on automatics is a gimmick, nothing more. And those gimmicks are designed to make more money now and make infinitely more on maintenance. I have two friends with steptronic BMWs, both have dumped over 4k into replacing them. Ouch!
CDs are cheaper, sound better, last longer and a player is a commodity, thus cheap to replace. Automatic trannies have been for around decades and decades yet they're still not reliable and are still more expensive to fix than manuals. When an automatic is cheaper to replace and better, lasts longer before needing maintenance than a manual, I'll agree with your analogy. At this point SMGs/autos are still more like a laser disc or DAT (digital audio tape), they're more exespensive to buy and when they break down, replacing them is more expensive too.
...when it's 500 times each day, yes it's too tough. After driving 65 miles to work everyday through stop and go LA traffic in my 5 speed BMW Z3, my foot would ache because of the heavy clutch.
Been there, done that. Keep the car in second and if it's a 3.0 it'll crawl before stalling.
Well you are one of the few who really doesn't care about gas milesage.
Uh, we bought sports sedans, not hybrids.
When I say more engaging, I mean, more engaging to drive than a pure automatic...you can't crash and die on playstation buddy. Get real.
Crashing and dying in a car is pretty remote too, imho. 280 million people and how many auto fatalities in 2004? 46000? That's like a .00016 chance and that's not including # of trips and miles. Given the miles driven, the number of cars, and the safety features today, the last thing I'm worried about in my car is death. I'm more concerned with a clunking sound or why the boob in front of me is weaving.
Would NEVER buy one with a stick! Both the stick AND the clutch are a total joke.
And it AIN"T FUNNY!
DrFill
Haven't seen anyone drive one who's second car isn't a Buick or Avalon.
Liked the mid-gen update, was pretty edgy and the interior made a HUGE leap forward.
Car is entertaining, even saddled with a 4-speed slusher!
DrFill
Which one is better-looking, the new 3 or the new IS?
7295 responses
IS - 61%
3 - 39%
That's cool!
DrFill
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But the Mustang's interior came along nicely, as did the exterior was bold and edgy, to my eyes, with the hood scoop (non-functional) on the V8 (hate the one on the V6), and the 8 sounded great and felt even better when driven hard. Even Auto!
I can say what I want about Ford and American cars, but until you've driven a GT with the top down, and your foot down, you have missed a great ride, my friend!
My two cents on the 3's styling is the cover of C&D says it all. The front is BUSTED! Is it a CTS? No, but it has been Bangled enough. It's Rocky Balboa after 3-4 rounds. You can see the cracks starting to form. Too bad.
The profile still lokks awesome, though! Beautiful, classic design! I guess that's why those pictures are so prevelant.
The rear is too puckered, uptight.
The IS has everything flowing so gracefully, cohesively, from front to back.
Strange, but I saw a Solara Convertible today and I was like "I've seen that face before!".
It shares A LOT with the IS face. The IS is not as severe, but they are definitely bretheren.
DrFill
The new 3 series doesnt do much for me. I really dislike those little bits of chrome on the hood above the kidney grill. I also dont like the "baby 5" interior.
BTW, why are people citing polls online? That's about as scientific as asking people at a chevy get together who makes the best cars. It only takes one major forum to get all its members to swing by a site and skew an online "poll".
If only those are the sales ratio for the Lexus...
It might take some time, but no one can bet against Toyota, not even Michael Schumacher. 1,000,000,000,000.00 Yen a year of profit can do a lot, like trashing the BMW party.
50 to 1 in favor of BMW? if that were true, Lexus wouldn't have gone the way of Sterling or Merkur! Remember them?
Is the above statistic really so shocking??
If you favor performance/handling, ofcourse BMW will win hands down over Lexus. Unlike Lexus, every BMW model is meant to be the top in terms of performance/handling.
Why would 98% of the world prefer a BMW over a Lexus? The simple answer is this: The majority of Lexus sales consists of medicore vehicles like the RX and the ES. The majority of BMW sales are 3 series based. Those stats in itself prove why 98% of the globe shrewdly would prefer a BMW.
So why does BMW not have superior sales in N. America? At an emotional level a majority favor BMW but at a logical level they choose to buy a Lexus.
Most people do not favor performance/handling as an end in itself. I can argue that the majority of N. Americans prefer to purchase a vehicle with the silky creamy smooth luxury feel of a LS, ES or RX over a competent handling BMW. I dont need a survey to prove that. The high sales volume of Lexus as a whole proves that point(especially when you consider the success of the ES/RX)!
"Unlike Lexus, every BMW model is meant to be the top in terms of performance/handling"
And Lexus cars are all chop-liver ? How about this: unlike BMW, Lexus makes more reliable, higher quality, quieter, and more luxurious automobiles (we ain't talking of leatherette and vinyl seats here).
"Why would 98% of the world prefer a BMW over a Lexus?. The simple answer is this: The majority of Lexus sales consists of medicore vehicles like the RX and the ES"
Huh ? Which 98% of the world? Or do you mean 98% of Germans? Take off those BMW blinders !!! And calling the ES and RX mediocre is IMO silly. To you only RWD cars count. Hogwash ! Do you wonder why BMW sells an X3 and an X5 ? Maybe it has something to do with SUVs being good sellers here, eh ? Think sales volume and profit margin are important? Without the X3, where would NA sales of BMW be ?
Why not go to the BMW love-fest forum and spew your stuff over there, instead of Lexus-a-hating over here. Last I checked, this is the "Next Lexus IS Forum", not about BMW. And if many find the IS better styled than the 3-, feel free to disagree with facts, if you have any.
M
In case you forgot, BMW has been around just a tad longer than Lexus, so its not really surprising that they sell more cars world wide. The new IS is only generation 2. What generation is the 3 series up to now? I think the fact that the IS can even be mentioned along side cars like the 3 series shows how quickly Toyota can get something right when they set their minds to it.
The reason people buy more RX330s than X5s is because the RX330s tend to start when you turn the key. I mean after you drive it off the lot, it STILL does that.
It is clear to me that Toyota WANTS Europe, and with the plentyful resource, Toyota can bring out a new variation of IS every year, a new engine every two years if they want to. (maybe have to) Who knows? I would not be surprised a 400HP of V8 is in the making for next LS.
Let's not forget about those Hybrid motors. I for one thinks that is going to "win the heart and mind" of the European for Toyota - Now finally free of the quota limiting its growth.
The first major trouble for Euro Carmaker could be VW though, if the Jetta fail in the States, they are in deep trouble. Judging from the look of the Jetta, I think it is coming.
98% derived from the 50:1 ratio. I will leave the math to you! 50:1 ratio itself may not be statistically correct, but it is a fact that an overwhelming majority favor BMWs than a Lexus.
I love the Lexus brand, especially the IS, but I am no admirer of the RX and ES. Is that a contradiction?
I hate BMW x5s and x3s, but I love BMWs. Is that a contradiction?
Of course it would be a contradiction if this is a Lexus Lovefest Forum of devoted fanatics that loves anything with a Lexus logo. In that case I apologize if I sounded offensive.
They announce that the optional engine to debut at the NY auto show will be a 3.5L. They speculate that the next gen IS will include a hybrid powertrain. And as to styling: "the style is punctuated by concave and convex shapes that aren't busy - a far cry from previous Japanese design attempts." Needless to say, I agree.
Oh yeah, and dewey, you are just being silly. Sales may not prove much of anything, but one thing they do demonstrate is what you're talking about - peoples' preference. And Lexus sells more. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Pardon my silliness, but based on your logic above the people's preference would not be Lexus or BMW. It would not be Toyota or Honda. The peoples' preference would be GM the number one seller of vehicles. :op
Anyway my future focus from now on in this forum will be the non-silly matter of the IS.
Stick to the IS, and stay away from personal attacks.
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Read my previous post. You pretty much stated exactly my point, which is that he is free to disagree "with facts, if he has any". Meaning: styling is subjective, no factual basis for disagreement since its just an individual's opinion....
I do indeed like your posts. I am sorry my response was that hash. My sincere apologies....
Hopefully, the IS350's trunk opening won't be horrendously small like on the GS.
Have a sneaking suspicion that the IS350 will approach that price.
DL
Ok got it, he can't dislike the styling on this board. There was no point of you saying anything in the first place.
M
- as a concession to the European market for its displacement taxation, the base engine will be a 2.5L V-6 making 201 hp at 6400 rpm and 184 lb-ft at 3800. They recognize that this is less than the outgoing car, but also state that the 250 will come in "somewhere below the IS300's $29,980 sticker".
- the other engine is a 3.5L V-6 (no surprise there) making more than 300 hp, and they have been told it will do 0-60 in the low 5's, making it quicker to 60 than the new 330i by almost a whole second.
They also mention that "the engines" (note the plural there) mate to a six speed manual or automatic. Manual for the 3.5? YESSSS!
The steering is electric, the interior is more conservative than the current model without being boring, the rims are 17s with optional 18s. The hood is aluminum as is the suspension.
Again, some of the things they mention are either stated so definitively or with such a level of detail (like hp ratings) it makes it hard to believe they are just speculations.
My favorite part: "park the IS and the forthcoming 3 series side by side, and reputation notwithstanding, the more visually dynamic Lexus pops as the BMW pings". :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111111298686583401,00.html?mod=pj%5Fautos%5Fhs%5Fcoll%5- Fleft
Why would anyone buy a 200HP model when a 300+ model is the next level up? Leaving that big a gap makes no sense either.
I'll take this as further speculation.
The right strategy is getting the 245HP 3.0 in the mix as the BASE.
Lexus needs a 200HP model like BMW needs iDrive!
The lightweight says on the "Other side of the pond", IMO.
DrFill