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By April/May you should be able to deal easily.
Fist time? Lexus' price > BMW
Lexus will beat BMW's price soon. (3 months at most)
My Toyota dealer is next to a car wash; sometimes they give me a free coupon!
than on in the internet. Not crazy about the faux wood though.
The car had some zip but the car had to work a bit to respond.
It did not feel as torquey as an Audi A4 2.0 and certainly not as
powerful as a C320. It felt similar to the Acura TSX.
This is not bad. I simply don't like the styling of the new BMW 3-series.
That leaves:
A4, TSX, TL, C class, IS
Personally, I love the looks of the G35 coupe the best, but
it suffers with mediocre gas mileage.
But back to the IS. Unless you pay big bucks, you don't get
memory seats, a rear sunshade, zenon, folding rear seats, and an easy entry feature
which I have on my 5 year old C class.
You also have to get the navigation system to upgrade the stereo system.
That's an extra 1800.
I'm leaning towards the Audi.
Well it won't be Lexus beating BMW's prices within the next three months. I seriously doubt you will ever see Lexus lowering its MSRP for these cars, except perhaps in special sales events (December to remember), or lease deals if demand proves to be softer than expected. They might also re-package some of the options to make them "fresher" and to stimulate demand that way. But in the short term the only discounting will be done by the dealers, and then only as needed in order to move inventory.
Someone above mentioned that the IS series will be the top selling model in the Lexus lineup. This may be true, but I have my doubts since I see it as more of a niche vehicle that's not ideally suited for your average Lexus buyer. For most of their customers on a "budget" (everything's relative) I see the ES line (in addition to the RX) remaining more appealing to the average Lexus buyer. I'd probably feel differently if the IS had more room in the back seat area.
Well, if this is the 2007 Lexus ES350 it would be even more appealing.
So my question to you and the group is. Did you always use the cheapest gas for your leased cars? Did you ever had any problems when you returned them?
Thanks
R
Consider this:
Your car averages 25 mpg on 12 gallons for a range of 300 miles. $3.20 a gallon = $38
On a lower grade of fuel averaging 24 mpg, it takes 12.5 gallons for a 300 mile range. $3.00 a gallon x 12.5 gallons which equals $37.50.
You saved 50 cents and you car produces less power. Where's the win in that? We're talking about $2-3 extra per fillup.
Why did you lease a performance sedan if you don't want it to perform? Is it just about the badge?
It was striking... they did not mention the 350 once! The whole ad (with limited text) only discussed the IS250 and AWD. I found that really odd
The salesman told me that I could get it without a sunroof, although in Canada I don't know if you can get a luxury package without a sunroof.
than on in the internet. Not crazy about the faux wood though."
The wood is not faux on this car.
Changing to premium!!!
R
Can they at least post invoice pricing??
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I swear I paid around $40k for my loaded 325is in 1995 after I factor in the 17"Anteras that I had the dealer swap out.
Our 528i was around $45k in 1998.
I left BMW for a few reasons. 1) I had too many reliability problems with both cars. 2) I was sick of needing to replace the brakes every 15 to 20k miles. 3) Customer service at the dealer sucked, 4) My dealer did not negotiate much on the price of the new cars
My GS300 stickered at $45k in 2001 and we got it for $500 over invoice, so I think we paid around $40k. The brakes and tires lasted around 50k miles. I did take it in every 5k miles and paid for the service. The dealer always takes off 10% of the bill when I schedule over the internet. When I factor in the ease of getting a loaner car and the balancing and rotation of the tires, etc that came with the service, it's not too bad.
The irony is that 10 years after buying my 325is, I am buying the IS350 that will probably eat up brakes and tires and cost me more to maintain that the BMW I griped about above.
All said and done, when I consider how much more I am getting for approx $40k with the IS350, compared to what I got 10 years ago with the 325is, it blows me away.
I've got a bad taste in my mouth for BMW, so I didn't even bother driving the 330i. I actually prefer the handling and feel of Lexus since I drive so much and the Lexus is so much less fatiguing to drive. I'll gladly pay a premium for the Lexus which to me is clearly worth it.
Given that most of us can type and read, it seems there may be other mitigating factors as to why we wouldn't perform our own oil changes.
My favorite wrench has an interval service checklist he attaches to to the paper work. It oulines everything to be completed in the service. Never has the manual specified something that wasn't on his list.
Aside from that rather obvious tidbit of advice, be reminded that your local Lexus shop subcontracts some its functions to other local shops and even to national or regional mobile services.
(well discussed on ES forum)
My questions are for those of you who have driven the new IS:
Is there ANY hesitation or rough shifting whatsoever ???
Any first impressions from those who have driven the IS250 AWD ??? enough power ??
~alpha
even at low speeds, Im getting the 330xi
This could be a case of a dealer who only orders X, Y or Z if you order V (basic premium) first."
I think this is dependent on the dealer allocations from Lexus; and varies based on the geographic region. For example, if you use the build your Lexus feature on the Lexus website, you have different option packages available based upon what zip code you enter. Unfortunately, it appears that most of the cars that Lexus is shipping have very little variation in terms of available options.
IMDO, I think the option packages are way overpriced. The base prices are not too unreasonable, esp for the 350. I still think 30K plus is high for a 204 hp car in today's market. Like others, I don't like the way the options are bundled. I'm leaning toward Lexus over a BMW at this point; but at least with the Bimmer, you can pick and choose individual options.
~alpha
I love Lexus. I have to admit there is something "sexy" about German cars, but it's not that sexy to have to deal with maintenance issues. I have never owned a BMW, but I have driven them and had a VW Cabrio with no problems. I actually enjoy taking my Lexus in for service. The last time I was there (oct 13th) I saw the IS's and was instantly in love with it. I couldn't find a salesman to let me drive one...well, honestly, I didn't ask. I figured if I was allowed to drive it, they'd volunteer to take me since they saw me eyeing them up.
Well, I did get a mechanic(!) to let me take a 350 for a test drive....in the rain, no less! I loved it. It really felt like I was in some kind of hovercraft. It's definitely a smooth ride and feels like a bullet gliding in the air. I was smitten, but it felt like somewhat of a waste to have all that power and not "feel" the road peeling away under the car. I am not a gearhead (obviously...if I owned a VW Cabrio) , but I can appreciate power. To not use the power, it's like drinking fine wine with a straw. You are missing some of the "flavor" by not letting it roll on your tongue and experiencing it to the fullest.
I really wanted to love this car, and I do, but it's missing something that I liked in the IS300 that is also in the BMW.
I keep going back and forth.
BMW 325xi....
pros: comes in AWD and manual. You don't have to get leather (given the choice, I prefer not to pay extra for dead animal in my car.) The driving experience, of course. This car is also much faster despite having a similar engine. The included service is a nice touch as well, although I know they can be stingy about what's covered under warranty and what's not. My friend had issues getting her brakes replaced....they claimed it was her driving and was not covered. She also had weather stripping come off, which they also wanted her to pay for, but her boyfriend called and got them to cover that.
cons: there is the reliability factor. And I'm one of those people that thinks the taillights are ugly, but I think the rest of the car is gorgeous. Then there is the price of the car.
Lexus IS 250 AWD....
pros: Beautiful interior, less expensive, the Lexus service is great and you can also get it serviced at Toyota dealerships which are generally closer and cheaper if you don't mind a Corolla loaner (I know I'm not the only one that does this.) You don't have to pay extra for paint or the cool key thing. The gas mileage is great.
cons: the dreaded backseat (although admittedly I've never had anyone in the backseat of my RX300, so I guess this isn't a huge issue), the mandatory parking assist option....basically, my con list is short and they aren't that big of a deal. Maybe I'll like having parking assist since I parallel park so much.
the agony!
I was just answering a mild complaint on dealership costs with some common sense. I have run across what I find an alarming and unreasonable fear of outside servicing on the majority of Lexus threads and indeed on a couple of BMW threads (those ones are usually smacked down pretty hard by the real Roundel pilots). For anything under warranty, any glitch or a service code or system hiccup, I wouldn't consider going anywhere else. That's absolutely what they are there for. But for routine maintenance, there is nothing that qualifies my Lexus shop to get my dime, other than the loaner, over and above a top-notch independent. For routine fluids and filters and pads and paper, the Toyota-trained boys and girls in the Lexus bays know nothing that an good indy can't regularly execute. I don't count Oil Changers and the like as good or even so-so, it is important to note.
Not to say I haven't used my Lexus shop for maintenance. The loaner is of questionable value sometimes. I get either an ES330 or RX330, and frankly, unless I have to make local trips away from the office that day, I'd rather not have to drive them!
First the good stuff. I like they way the IS looks a lot more in person. The only color they had was black on both cars. I would personally prefer a metallic or pearl finish on the car but overall it looked good in black. I don't however see the point of having 3 types of silver. The 350 had the Cashmere interior which looked pretty good in it's own right but I preferred the light gray interior in the 250 or a black interior to it. Both cars were equipped without the wood thank God. The Nav system screen looked very good a with a very clear hi-res screen. The standard radio was better than most factory radios.
Getting on with the car itself I would have preferred that Lexus has kept the clear or smoked lenses for the tail lights as that was the IS trademark. I personally have no idea why Lexus put 4 doors on this car as the backseat is virtually uninhabitable by anyone other than small children (I'm 6'4"/ 215lbs.) They would have done better and gotten much less slack for making this a 2+2 coupe. The key fob thing is pretty cool although, I've used one before, I'm just making a note of that.
Well onto the drive. IMO I don't see the point in Lexus having the 250 at all. There marketing team is way off for thinking that people will wanna sacrifice performance at the expense of gadgets. I think most want both. The 3L engine found in the GS should have been the base engine and provides similar fuel economy. The 2.5L just doesn't cut it for me and I couldn't honestly justify spending 38K for a 200hp car optioned the way I would want it (Sport package/ Nav/ ML) over a similarly equipped and about equally powered Acura TSX. That's about a 10K premium.
The 350 on the other hand is very good in it's own right. I can see why a lot of people will like this car although I think asking 42K+ OTD is a bit much for this car. I would say 40K would be a fair price OTD with sport package, nav and ML. The straight line acceleration on this car is great- although I don't believe it's quite 5.3 seconds fast. The original 5.6 claim seems a bit more realistic to me. I was allowed to push it quite a bit before the salesman freaked out around 127mph. The car was extremely stable at that speed to my delight.
My biggest faults with the IS are these. First get rid of the automatic. Although it shifts resonably smooth while in the "D" position, when you swith to "S" to use the paddles this thing lags. One particular shift that stood out took about 2-3 seconds to complete after I flicked the paddle. The DSG that Audi uses or even the SMG 2 from the e46 M3 would provide much better performance if an automated transmission is in order for the driver. Second they SHOULD have a manual transmission for this car (IS350.) Why it didn't launch with one I have no real idea. Third for the love of God why put a great engine like the 3.5L in a car when you can barely hear the exhaust note. The IS is supposed to be the "anti-Lexus" car. If it's gonna be this tame then why bring it out when you already have a great selling and nearly equally priced car in the ES? Fourth and foremost this car NEEDS some steering wheel feedback. It's supposed to be a sports sedan and ride a little rough. The "floaty" steering feels like I was driving my dad's Cadillac DTS. I know many Lexus owners probably don't wanna hear that but that was the first feeling that came to mind while driving this car. I think that VDIM needs a bit more calibration also... I had my first VDIM experience in a sweeping turn I normally take at around 65mph in my car which is FWD no less. I got the 350 up to about 72mph before VDIM started braking for me.
As a control I also test drove a BMW 330i (again,) a G35 Coupe (again,) an Audi A4 2.0T Quattro, and an Acura TSX (again) on the same day. Like many magazines state from a driveabilty basis the BMW is STILL the standard. The G35 "feels" the fastest and hands down has the best exhaust note by far. The Audi A4 feels a lot more powerful than the 200hp claim and has the best interior IMO. The TSX may be one of the few FWD cars that make me not really miss RWD (it was equipped with the A-Spec sport suspension.) I can definately recommend the IS350 to anyone but I can't say the same for the IS250 unless they replaced the 2.5L for the 3L engine(40 extra horses can change your view.) All in all though if Lexus makes the changes I suggested they could make a very good car into an excellent "driver's" car and the "true" 3-series fighter that they promised us. As it stands now the IS' biggest competitor is the MB C-Class, Acura TL and Lexus ES. The G35 is still the best "3 fighter" on the market. If Acura would switch to RWD and add about 50hp to the TSX I would have to change that statement.
Oh yeah... WOOT WOOT on my first post!!!
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kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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IMO people should investigate the background before they conclude.
The IS250 brings a huge performance INCREASE comparing to the car it replaces: IS200. America is not the only place Lexus does business. There are places in Europe and Asia where the cost of fuel is double or triple that of the US.
Both IS200 and IS300 are replaced by far more powerful successors. What are you complaining about. :mad:
That's what I'm complaining about.
pros: comes in AWD and manual. You don't have to get leather (given the choice, I prefer not to pay extra for dead animal in my car.) The driving experience, of course. This car is also much faster despite having a similar engine.
Not correct. The 325i has a 3.0L I-6 engine, while the IS250 has a 2.5L V-6 motor.
That's what I'm complaining about.
Do you recall how long BMW has been selling a 180-ish HP car (e46 325i, 525, 528i) for the mid-$30K's and higher ??? The e90 325 has a 3L 215HP motor and sells for the mid-to higher $30K range, do you find that price reasonable ? BMW fans continue to buy these cars despite their low HP rating, why ? Handling and performance. The BMW fans will also tell you its not all about HP, eh ? So Lexus is also not all about HP. Its the total package.... luxury, sport, finesse, reliability, style, features and safety....and Yes, BRAND recognition. All of these come at a price...
Thanks for you honest posting.
I drove the IS 350, BMW 330i, and G35X.
Tough choice, love the interior, and of course reliability of Lexus, but to me anyway, too much of an luxury sport versus sport luxury like BMW, if you know what I mean.
BMW and Infiniti just felt better to drive, more fun. Lexus was not far behind just
didn't feel as tight.
Here is my dilemma. I like all 3.
Infinity G35X with AWD, at around 34-36K loaded, is my # 1, because of price, AWD, and rear seat is bigger. Close to invoice, been out 3 years or so, very reliable.
BMW 330i was # 2, a great car to drive fast, really the benchmark, and around 39-42K loaded. But new model, and BMW as most manufacturers usually have some problems first year, including Lexus.
Lexus 330i, the most luxurious, and tops in reliability, I like the looks, and it is quick.However Sport Package with Additional Options is $6,845.00 on their Web Site. That brings it up to 43K without any other options or taxes and dealer fees.
So 46K sounds about right. Sticker was 45K +. Didn't really negotiate.
I agree with the assessment the IS 350 is a heck of a car, much better than the previous model, but I think Lexus is pricing themselves out of the market. I always thought BMW would cost more.
Tough choice??? I always wanted a Beemer, and always wanted a Lexus, otherwise I would of bought the G35X.
I will test drive all three again, take my time, and see what happens.
!!!!!!!Latest news!!!!
My neighbor's son is BMW mechanic.
He said new 330i will have problems first year, software, new engine, new transmission, etc. And stay away from iDrive electronics.
Don’t buy first year. He also mentioned all Manufacturers have problems first year,
In fact Toyota just had a major recall in Japan. And Lexus has had recalls.
Since I drive to NY in winter, and IS350 doesn’t have AWD, Infiniti G35X gives me
What I need. Much closer feel to BMW than Lexus, great reliability, AWD, and
Fully loaded mid 30’s.
Test drive the G35X, I think you might really like it. It is very nice, not quite as luxurious as Lexus, but not many are.
Good luck!!
The 250 is in no way a more capable performer than the car it directly replaces here in the States. We are forced into a compromise to make the platform more saleable elsewhere. The 250 is the replacement for the IS300 with the 350 being a whole new ball of wax.
Again, Bingo.
Another IS300 makes sense to you, but not to Lexus. 3.0L is simply too large for a base engine in Europe and Asia. They don't want to produce 3 models 500cc apart. The 3rd engine choice, IMO, will come as IS500.
With this update, Amercian buyer get a beefed up IS300 in the IS350 and get an alternative they never had before:the IS200/250.
BTW, at 38K there's the 306hp IS350 (with real leather, mind you).
Now if you can't agree with my opinion about the IS250 with options being overpriced and underperforming so be it. You just can'y throw "sport" into the conversation when this car is getting dusted by most other cars on the road because of the weight factor.
I know with the features I prefer a 330i ED comes out to 35.5 v. 41k msrp. Looking at that price, plus free maintenance, I see a massive savings compared to the IS350 (over 6k).
I've got several friends living there so if I go back to BMW, I can make it a 2-3 week European vacation with my own "rental". Again, this comes down to if you're looking to travel to Europe then ED can be a lifesaver (and make the vacation easier).