Future Collectibles--Make Your Prediction

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Hmm...good question....I think you may have a point in that IF these old cars cannot actually been driven and enjoyed in the future, due to fuel prices, emissions laws, crime in the streets, whatever, then yes, their value will free fall, and only expensive and exotic musuem queens will have value.

    We can see already that collectors are now choosing cars they can race or take on historic tours...the big, old, slow cars, with some exceptions, are stagnant or losing value.
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    Here is my list.

    Turbo Regals and GN's
    '86-93 Mustang GT's preferably convertibles with a five speed
    '93 and up Firehawks
    '96 and up Ram Air and SS F-bodies
    Possibly Talon AWD turbo cars
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Hmm...well, I think you are on the right track with most of those, in that they are sort of rare (except Mustang) and people do like them...so there's a chance for some collectibility in the future--but the Talon fails completely in the Golden Rule of ollectibility...

    "loved when new, loved when old"

    Nobody cares about Talons, new or old.

    Of course, there's the other rule:

    "all valuable cars are rare, but not all rare cars are valuable".

    At least the Buick is putting up some decent numbers...the other cars are still behaving like used cars, and depreciating every year...so the jury's still out on them.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I like Mustangs but those model years will never be collectible. They're a dime a dozen. What makes them so popular is also what makes them so cheap.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Good point yes...they are plenty of them out there...this is probably why even the older Mustangs (except the Shelbys) aren't worth all that much restored (you can buy a very nice one for $15K and it would be hard to restore one that cheaply). I'm always amazed when I hear people say "they ONLY made 22,000 of this or that!" In collector car terms, that's a LOT...look at it this way...Ferrari only made around 900 Spyders total from the 1940s to the 1970s/
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    True but look at the GTO. They made a ton of them but they are very collectible.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    ALL the GTO's were exclusive, high performance machines. All the Mustangs weren't. To compare the two, you'd have to include all the Tempest sedans made as well-and they aren't worth all that much. The high-performance Mustangs are worth much more than your basic, small V8's and sixes.
  • judasjudas Member Posts: 217
    As a former GTO owner I don't know if I'd agree with the exlusive high performance part. The collectible GTO's are the Judge's, Ram Air's, 455's, tri powers, etc. They had some considerable meat under the hood. The plain jane variety aren't that highly sought and they weren't that 'high performance'. I bought a fairly original 70 GTO with a very solid body (Needed paint, no rust) for 2 grand because it was 'just' a 400 and an auto. As for as performance goes I sure wouldn't race a late fox body or SN95 Stang with it, and they both get smoked by the 99-00's.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Right! In American cars, collectibility=horsepower=dollar value....if it doesn't have the right engine or rare options, the price can vary wildly.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    After that, they made it a series, and you could actually get a detuned, 2barrel automatic if you wanted. If you look at 64-66 GTO values, and compare them to 64-66 Tempest/Lemans values, you'll see what I mean. And I agree that those 80's Mustangs will never be collectible. For one, there were a zillion made, and also, I think they're butt ugly-basically a truncated, '78 Fairmont with a bunch of ugly facelifting over the years. Kinda like a homely woman with too much makeup...
  • judasjudas Member Posts: 217
    I would have to say the most collectible GTO wouldn't be a pre 67, it'd be a later Judge, with the possible exception of the first year 389 tri power. Pre 67's without the tri power and with an automatic probably aren't worth (Much) more than a 69 or 70 with the 400 and an auto, they're both a step below the high performance model. I wasn't even considering the 2 barrels. Mine was a palladium silver, factory A/C, 350 HP 400 CI 4 barrel with the turbo 400 tranny.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Member Posts: 764
    A friend of mine is looking at buying a muscle car for fun now, but as a long term keeper. He is looking at a Firebird TransAm ram air or the Camaro SS alter ego - both soft top.

    Essentially these are the same car, but which do you think has the better chance of being more valuable in the future, obviously that is a big gamble at this point, and that isn't his motivation for buying, but it seemed to be an interesting question.

    My immediate response would have been the Pontiac as it has just that little more refinement - but what do you guys think?
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    I have a '96 6-speed Ram Air Trans Am. It's a nice car. It will run a 14.0 quarter mile, has a 150+ top speed, and gets 24 mpg on the highway. The '93 and up cars also have a better build quality than the old Iroc style cars. As far as being a valuable collectible, that's going to take a long time. I paid $10,000 less than what the car cost new with only 22,000 miles. These cars are still depreciating. I agree that the Pontiacs may be worth something down the road. They look aggressive (the new one look a little cartoony), perform, and the Ram Air cars are fairly rare.
  • wilcoxwilcox Member Posts: 584
    have become collectors items. Based on conversations, publications, and observances, it appears to be so. It has also been pointed out that it is not uncommon to find fakes for these kinds of automobiles being marketed.

    May the Buyer Beware!
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    .....make excellent collectibles. As with any classic, you do have to watch out for fakes.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'd say SOME 4-4-2s are collectible. Certainly the early ragtops and any W30 option. But a 73-74 coupe isn't worth all that much and may never be. So aside from fakes, one has to be careful not to leap at just any 442 and throw tons of money into it.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    I was thinking of the 68-72 variety. Anything built after that was a gutless wonder.
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    I've noticed that 442's lag way behind the other musclecars as far as value goes. The '70 model is the most sought after especially the W30, but you can find a nice one for a reasonable price. A 442 is a great bargain musclecar for someone who doesn't have 'Cuda, Mustang, Camaro, or GTO money. Another bonus is that 442's were not cheap when new so they tended to be bought by older buyers who took better care of them and loaded them up with more options than you normally see on other musclecars. Plus the motors make a lot of power and last a long time if you take care of them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It' the Chevy/Pontiac mystique at work here...the other GM makes seem to lag in value. Too bad the Beach Boys didn't write a 4-4-2 song...besides, "Olds mobile" is just not a sexy name.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    When it comes to GM collectibles, it's Chivrolay and everybody else. Some Pontiacs are highly sought after--optioned GTOs and the early-60s Super Duty--but mostly they're just blips on the radar screen compared to Chevy. When in doubt, go with the bow tie.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    ......isn't a very sexy name either, but "Road Runner", "GTX" and "Cuda" sure are!!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    My brother-in-law is restoring a '68 4-4-2 convertible. He's about 80% finished. Just got the engine back from a professional rebuilder last week. It is slightly overbored, so he thinks it will result in more ponies. I also read where the earlier 4-4-2's are highly prized. I've already told him to keep his garage doors tightly locked.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Yeah, he's got a keeper. Overboring might give him a little extra push, but I don't know as that alone would register in the seat of his pants. Probably just the rebuild itself will do a lot of good. Remind him not to mess with originality too much. Of course, with internal engine parts, nobody can tell!
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    It's a sweetie! Hang on to it, and to any paperwork or anything else he can find for it. Tell him to check under the rear seat for a build sheet -- they used to leave them in there sometimes at the plant, and it's pure gold for collectors. Also tell him not to OVER restore it. Factories had different levels of finish for deifferent surfaces, and he should do his homework before having anyone paint it. Hopefully he's chosen someone who's up on this stuff....
  • gkelly3gkelly3 Member Posts: 38
    are these worth anything? They had a different look, and given AMC's prediliction for making their cars with common engines, transmissions, etc.; spare parts should be obtainable. How many were made?
    And, were they especially prone to rust and deterioration? Somebody told me that there are a FEW AMC enthusiasts, but I haven't found any!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    They have some value, but their devotees are few, and since collectibility is determined by supply and demand, there seems to be no shortage of Javelins and no abundance of buyers.

    The AMX from 68-70 with the big 390 engine probably has the best chance of achieving some sort of collector status, but the cars won't ever be anything like the "real" muscle cars from GM, Ford and Chrysler.
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    One problem I think people are going to have when keeping a late '90s to 2000 model year car as a future collectible is that who is going to be able to fix these "computerized" cars in the future (50 plus years) One of the nicest things about the older cars (1975 and under) is that it doesn't take another computer to figure out what is wrong with the car's computer. I personally wouldn't want to be the one trying to a restore a 2000 model year car 50 years from now. I have a hard enough time trying to change the plugs on my '96 Cirrus.

    What does everyone else think about this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It's definitely going to be a problem, not only finding the right computer boards, etc, but also finding the diagnostic machines to interact with the car's "brain". This is one reason I think most modern cars, when worn out, will be scrapped, even the very fast and sexy ones. Possible exceptions would be very expensive, low production supercars, like Ferrari, Porsche turbos, Lambos, etc. which should retain enough value to make the incredible hassle of restoring them worthwhile...perhaps!

    Case in point...try to get an 8-track tape deck fixed, or an old MSDOS computer, an old VCR, etc.

    So the VERY old cars may benefit from all this, as you don't need much technology to fix a 1957 Chevy.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    I'm not quite so pessimistic. Technology is relative. Remember that you can get a transister radio that fits into the dash of your 55 Chevy to replace your tube radio and it looks like the real thing from the outside. You can also get a complete molded plastic interior for a 65 mustang.
    The chips in cars are fairly small and uncomplex in modern terms. If the coding is available, (Jim Conforti has BMW's source code) there's no reason that a new programable chip couldn't be installed to replace a burned out one. There are already programmable chips available for Chevys and Fords (See Car and Driver) for the purpose of improving performance. So, as with the radio example, future chips might not be OEM but will run the car. Parts is parts and chips is just parts. Just like somebody could make a new carb jet if it were needed somebody in the future will burn a board or it's functional equivalent for you. I expect that you'll be able to get replacement parts molded in plastic too as time and computer modeling improve small batch casting technology All it takes is money.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,505
    I remember a 1979 Chrysler Newport that I bought from the junkyard for $250.00 had what looked like some kind of RS-232 input slot or something like that that had a cap over it that said "Diagnostic connection". I was thinking this was pretty cool, that someone could just plug into it and read the code. But then a mechanic friend of mine said good luck finding someone with that kind of connection. On the plus side, though, when the tranny finally failed, it cost about $650 to rebuild (at about 230K miles). I shudder to think what it's going to cost to rebuild my 2000 Intrepid's tranny when it fails!
    -Andre
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    It's not just the computer chips...it's all the other networked systems as well. You can't even find somebody to rebuild a carburator on a 1988 Mazda pickup truck anymore, much less figure out how to engineer and burn a new management computer that will control 5 or 6 separate mutltiplexed systems through a now old and decayed fiber optic harness. I don't THINK so! Just go look at the condition of the 35 year old cars they are saving now, and think about what it would take to re-create a 2001 automobile in that decrepit condition. Besides, nobody in 2035 is going to car about a Honda Prelude, I just can't believe that. Maybe a Ferrari Maranello. Depends how many survive.
  • donaldthomasondonaldthomason Member Posts: 2
    will definitely be a collector's item! I'm seeking one now to get it, fix it up while parts are still available, and keep it, while they are relatively cheap!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    You don't have to hurry, they will always be cheap.


    Are you teasing your host, or if not, why do you think this car would be a collector's item? If style, performance and desireability are three of the major criteria for collectibility, the Metro kind of strikes out, doesn't it?
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    What about the Neiman Marcus edition of the new T-Bird? They're only building 200 of them, however, there's very little difference between them and the production Birds, except that they will be on sale Christmas day, only come in black, and will cost ten grand more than the regular production cars. Still, you've got a pretty good sportscar, convertable, no back seat, and a limited number. Looking at how well the original 55-57 T-Birds fared, I think the new ones might do pretty good as well. (Provided we can find computers for them. Maybe in thirty years we could just drop a carburated, pushrod 351 Windsor under the hood, and hope no one asks to see the engine ;-)

    How does one expect a three cylinder, sub-subcompact econo-car to ever be worth anything? How many 1960's Toyotas are collector cars? With the possible exception of the MR2, I don't think Toyota ever has, or ever will make a collector car. Same goes double for Geo.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Well in the past, these 'special edition' cars, which are only cosmetics, have not appreciated in value, so I'd guess that the extra $10K would be a "waste" of money unless of course you don't care and you really like the car. But I wouldn't expect it to be worth any more than a normal T-Bird.

    It's very very hard for ANY car that is mass-produced to become a true collectible, almost impossible. This is not to say people won't want them in the future--it's just that they won't pay big bucks for them...again, because there are so many, they can pick and choose. Mass production insures a buyer's market in other words.
  • DogmanDogman Member Posts: 5
    Your thoughts on the Honda 600 and the Subaru SVX?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,505
    My cousin had one of these, from the '77-79 generation. I forget what it was called "Heritage" or something like that? It was fully loaded with just about every option, except the seats were velour instead of leather, and it had carpeting in the trunk that was better than the carpeting in most cars today. It was big and beautiful, in a pimpy sort of way, and looked like brand new. She ended up selling it to some old man who loves the thing.

    I was tempted to buy it, but I had no need for it. She would've taken $3000 for it (I think), but the thing was almost too beautiful to let sit outside, let alone drive! It was in better shape than any mass produced 70's car has a right to be. (and they don't get much more mass-produced than a late 70's T-bird)

    -Andre
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    My own opinion on these cars is that they are "niche" cars or "cult" cars and are sort of back shelf curiosities rather than real collector cars. I think there will always be a limited market for the 600s but not like the 800 roadsters, which will command lots more money. I think the 600s will always struggle to bring decent money but they will at least be saleable and marginally collectible.

    The SVX, being a 4-door and being japanese, has two strikes against it historically in the collectible car market (very very few Japanese cars are collected, and very very few 4-doors are collected), so I'd say it's a rather poor bet for future collectibility. If it had, say the horsepower of the Impala SS 4-doors or the good looks of the Jaguar 3.8 sedans, maybe it would be different, but it is an odd-looking car of modest performance with no real heritage. Nonetheless, it is interesting in its own way, so always saleable if the price is right.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,505
    ...but isn't the SVX a 2 door? Isn't that the car with the funky little window-within-a-window in the door? And I think the rear quarter windows had the same treatment, where the smaller pane of glass rolled down but the bigger piece didn't?
    -Andre
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Oh, yeah, how embarassing...always mix it up with the Legacy. Well, I guess that shows how much of an impression the car made on me, and I've driven a few of them, too. Actually, I like the SVX, it's a really good buy for the money, but you know, so few people know about or care about the car these days. That's not a good sign for collectibility. The hottest collectibles today were hot when they were new, and really never cooled off. It's not like everybody suddenly "remembered" the '55 T-Bird or the '57 Chevy or the Corvette. These cars have always been in the spotlight. That's what strong collector cars are all about.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    Before I do something stupid.

    Back in 1982, my best friend's dad bought a very unusual little truck. A Dodge Rampage.

    For those who don't remember, it was basically an Omni made into a small pickup.

    I remember walking around it and shaking my head. It was so small and so different.

    Well, now my buddy's 84 year old parents have decided to go from two cars to one and want to sell the Rampage.

    It's a five speed with A/C. So. Calif always garaged with a whopping 28,000 miles on it. My buddy says there is some paint fading (silver) but otherwise like new.

    And, he wants 2000.00 for it.

    A couple of years ago, one of the old car mags listed it as a "Future Collectable"

    They only made these for three years.

    What do you guys think....Shifty?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,505
    I really doubt if these things will ever reach a serious collector status. They're offbeat enough to be kind of interesting, but I think most people will look at them as a nasty little truck based on a nasty little car. Also, be careful, because I think some of them got stuck with a 1.7L Pugeot engine.

    Still, if it's in good shape, and you like it, that's all that matters. My favorite Mopars from the early 80's are the Dodge Mirada/Chrysler Cordoba LS (and the last of the R-bodies). They'll probably never be collectible either, but if I found a nice one and had the money, I'd pay it!

    Let us know what U decide.
    -Andre
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    It's a 2.2 4 banger. I agree with your comments. I guess I just like it because it's unusual. I can't remember when I last even saw one. I would probably keep it in the garage as kind of a fun extra car. Of course, we need an extra car like I need a third eyeball!

    For 2 grand, I could dump it later and not lose a dime if I get tired of it.

    I browsed through the internet. It looks like these things (like many wierd cars) have a small but pretty loyal following.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    and 2000 bucks isn't much for ANY car these days, let alone one with only 28,000 miles. And that 2.2 liter engine, in spite of the Chrysler bashing, was basically solid and simple. Parts are cheap. Has some hop up potential too. For a few more bucks, you could turn it in to a fun beater hot rod. In any case, I think you could always sell it for at least what you paid. Maybe not the answer you want, but then if I had a place to keep them, I'd have at least ten old cars, maybe twenty...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I would agree that there's no harm done in buying it, and as long as it hung together you could get your money back; but I also agree that as a true active collectible it is doomed to failure. More of a car for the "curiosity" class, for collectors with lots of enthusiasm, few prejudices and small budgets.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    I do think it's kind of fun to wtch people walk by a car like that, and watch them take a double take..." What is THAT ?"

    I'll probably do it if nothing else for the adventure.

    I hope it doesn't mind the exercise!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    if you put a few extra bucks in it, you could surprise the hell out of some arrogant dudes driving very expensive "hot" cars, notably those 5 liter Mustangs...
    now wouldn't that be fun?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonMember Posts: 20,350
    That WOULD be fun...tell me more.

    I didn't think that puny 2.2 engine was capable of too much. I have heard that they are pretty reliable.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 42,053
    The 2.2 is the basis for the turbo engines from that era. The Shelby variants put out plenty of power. You gotta love any car that has the nerve to call itself a GLH (goes like hell).

    If someone offered it to me, I'd probably buy it too. At least it has a pick up bed so you can consider it marginally useful.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    it's full of good stuff for the 2.2 liter engine. Some of these have been tweaked to as much as 300 HP! I've been told that the blocks were designed from the start with extra beef to take the turbo and more-and have been known to go 300,000 miles. You have a potential pocket rocket there if you want it. The catalogs are available at any Chrysler parts counter.
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