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Future Collectibles--Make Your Prediction

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Comments

  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 4
    I'm new to the list but it always seems like and no matter what year they are that the pony cars always eventually become collectors items. probably moreso gt's and z28's than the v6's, but you never know.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Certainly that's true in American collector cars...horsepower = value. There are some V-6 collectibles, but not in American cars, because either the V-6s are too modern and common to collect or because there was a V-8 version of the same car...on the other hand, with old Mustangs from the 60s...the V-8 cars bring more than the stright-6, but the 6 is still somewhat of a collectible because of the body style...it's that classic "Mustang look" from 65-67 that collectors are interested in, and to some of them, at least, what's under the hood doesn't matter so much...figure a 20% premium for the V-8.

    I think with the modern pony cars that it will be the trend-setters that people will collect, and those with the most powerful engines will be further desirable. So, you know, a Cobra has a much better chance than a base Mustang V-6.
  • After many hours of thought and analysis, I had come to the conclusion that a 91-93 Volvo 240 sedan was the most appropriate car for my 16 year-old driver and, in the future, for his younger brother. I was amazed that they are very difficult to find. None in the want-ads for weeks. I finally began to call local (Chicago area) Volvo dealerships. No dealership in Chicago had one for sale!!! I was told by various salesman that these "swedish tanks" are becoming "cult cars" and are very hard to find. What a shocker.

    By the way, as long as I'm on the Volvo subject, what about those 1960's Volvo sports cars as collector's items?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Oh, you mean the P1800?

    It has some value, certainly, but has been rather stagnant for years...they seem to peak out at $5,000-$7,000 for nice ones and can't manage to appreciate in value beyond that point. I must presume that the supply is sufficient for the demand for these cars and that's what's keeping them barely even with inflation.

    They are a sturdy car, a Swedish version of what a "sports car" is, but the questionable styling (tail fins?), noisy engine and rather leisurely performance, as well as the very weird seating position (buried way down on the floor, with the window ledge at your ear level)--all these things work against the car. Also not cheap to fix, with an expensive and irksome overdrive transmission and very precious chrome pieces. But still tough as nails as far as sports cars go.

    They have their charm, really, but speedy and agile they ain't.

    I myself much prefer the later "sport wagon", the 1800ES, with a more harmonious body and fuel injection. I think these ES models have a better chance of hitting the $10,000 mark soon.
  • I just scrolled down the lists and did not see one single reference to these cars. They were significant in that they produced more horsepower and tourque than any of the 4 cylinder cars of that era and could outhandle most of them and had acceleration times comparable to most of the v8's. Add to it that they were produced in limited quantities and numbers and were produced by Carroll Shelby and you have a future collectable. All the cars are numbered and were extensively raced in SCCA where they dominated for 3 or so years.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Hi Mrboost!

    I'm afraid there were references in the past, but not good ones. The cars, though formidable in performance, were apparently of dubious quality and left a very sour taste in most owner's mouths, judging by their comments left here. I believe there is an archived discussion on these cars in

    >

    Go to that conference on the link above, and then click on "Archived Topics" at the top of the page and look for the Daytona Shelby topic.

    If current values are any indication, there is not much interest in these cars as far as the current collector car market is concerned, One would be fortunate to get $3,000 for a very nice one, hardly the price of a good paint job.

    There have been a number of interesting cars made that were marketplace failures and for that reason always carry a bad reputation, whether deserved or not. This "rep" keeps them undervalued because collectors like cars that have some kind of prestige or history attached.

    My own personal impression of the car is that it was 75% marketing scheme and 25% rather hasty engineering to get performance out of a small engine. So it's a rough little car that didn't win any respect.
  • carnut4carnut4 Posts: 574
    When I think "Shelby Dodge" I think first of the Charger Version, based on that ugly, cheap looking little couple full of tacked on body panels that looked like they were ready to fall off. The later Daytona version was different. As for the engine, lots of people think it was just a hasty, cheap cobble to get quick performance-but in fact that engine [2.2] was designed from the ground up to take the Turbo from the beginning, and Chrysler built it with the best Turbo [Garrett Airresearch, watercooled bearing] and fuel injection [Bosch] hardware they could get. Thousands were sold and warranted for 70,000 miles-if they were really that bad, Chrusler would not have survived all the warranty claims. These Turbo motors were WAY better than the Ford 2.3, for example, which had no watercooled bearing, and typically blew around 30,000 miles. The bodies on those Chargers were horrible and uglt, I thought-and the value of those, and the Daytonas may be low-but hey-drive one-and read what Car and Driver said about the Daytona when they tested it in 85 in a comparison with the Corvette, Camaro and Transam, Fiero V6, and Mustang GT. That's why I bought one then [a gamble] and why after 210,000 miles on the ORIGINAL Turbo, it's still a fun, comfortable, cheap ride. Who cares what it's worth.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well, he did claim it was a collectible car, so the value is relevant in that case, whereas if you're just driving it and don't care about it's collectibility, then you're right, who cares what it's worth...might be a fun cheap ride. However, I must say the overall comments made by people didn't reflect your own good luck for the most part.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,625
    I don't recall seeing these mentioned along the way. I'm specifically thinking of the 1st generation (83/84). It seems to fit much of the criteria (hot engine, 2 doors, people wanted them then). Very entertaining to drive. Not that it is likely to become the Bugatti of the next millenium, but should enjoy a loyal following that should ensure that some of these are maintained in nice condition (or restored), and will hold their (modest) value.

    I still wish I had bought one back in late '84 when I got my first new car, but it was after the '84s were gone and before the gen II '85s came out.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    How about the Jag Vanden Plas or S-type?
    Or a Rolls Royce? I'm pretty sure these will be collector cars in 30 or so years, and both of these marques rate WAY higher on general desirability than MB or BMW ever dreamed. I think a Rolls will be a collector car regaurdless of the number of doors it has.
  • carnut4carnut4 Posts: 574
    I always liked those Jag XJ6 sedans from 1970. Thought they were gorgeous then-still do. Except for those Lucas electricals..... Much cleaner and better proportioned than the later ones-but how many decent ones are out there, and what are they worth? My neighbor finally had his XJ12 sedan towed away, after something went wrong that was just too prohibitive to fix.
  • kinleykinley Posts: 854
    I'm betting on the 00 T Bird as a collectible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Actually, many of the mass-produced Rolls 4-doors (that is, factory built cars, not special bodies) from the 50s-70s are worth very little today, and the 40s-50s Bentley Mark VI 4-doors and 70s & 80s Jaguar XJ6s you can hardly give away....again, it's a supply and demand thing. Who really wants a ponderous, unreliable and shockingly expensive car to fix as a hobby? Not too many people I'd guess. Let's take a ming 1966 Rolls Silver Shadow...worth $12,000 on a good day in mint condition, and it costs $6,000 just to do the brakes. I don't think the plain-jane factory-built 4-door Rolls/Bentleys and Jags will be collectible in 100 years, honestly.

    The '00 Bird will be a cabriolet as I recall (??), and in limited numbers and a big hit (hopefully)...if those three criteria are in place, it might be a collectible, yes, I'd tend to agree.

    Your Host
  • Here's my humble list of potential future classics:

    Foreign Products:

    1. Porsche Boxster.
    2. Porsche 930 (or whatever the first water-cooled model is).
    3. BMW Z3 with the six.
    4. Landrover Defender with the V8.

    United States Products:

    1. Viper.
    2. Prowler.
    3. Corvette LT-4, ZR-1, and aftermarket speciality corvettes, i.e., Calloway.
    4. Dodge Ram Pick-up w/ the V10.
    5. Impala SS 94-96.
    6. Buick GNX.
    7. Mustang Cobra.
    8. Camaro SS.

    Finally, have any of you folks heard anything about Chevy coming out with an Impala SS or BMW coming out with a retro 2002?
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    Impala SS as opposed to the Impala their already selling? Rumors are floating that future Police package Impalas will have either GM's supercharged 3.8 V-6, or a V-8, and if they do, they'd be dumber than we give them credit for if they didn't offer an SS package.

    I still think if you let a Rolls get old enough, (say, buy one today, & wait til 2060 or 2070) it'll be worth something. Just think what a 1930's Rolls in mint condition would fetch. I check some classifieds on the Jags, though. Early & mid eighties can be gotten for about what a Used Taurus can! Jaguar or a Taurus, Jaguar or a Taurus? My what a hard choice!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    But you have to remember that 30s Rolls are coachbuilt (handbuilt, custom designed, one of a kind bodies). The 90s cars are mass-produced in large numbers, whether Rolls or Impala. They are too common in both design and numbers to be very (highly) collectible. Of course, someone will *always* want to drive around a neat old car, but a 90s Impala will be worth the same as a 30s four-door Chevy is today, $5-6,000 bucks tops, hardly worth the cost of 70 years of storage and restoration!.

    I think rarity is a *crucial* factor in collectibility, as is *demand*. Either one (or both) factors must be in place for collectibility.
    So, IMO, in 25 years you're going to have a lot more 90s Impalas around than people who want them, whereas by comparison you have a lot of 60s Mustang convertibles around, but also a lot of people who want them (giving them modest collectibility value) and a very few 1963 Split-window Corvette coupes with fuel-injection (giving them much higher value).

    But I guess it all hinges on what we mean by "collectible"--to me, this means more than just a few people...it's more like a craze, almost an "artificial" value---so I can see a Viper doing this or maybe a Prowler (after many future years of depreciation), but never a Dodge pickup--too utilitarian....but even Cobras, yes, they will probably behave like 60s Mustangs...valuable but not very valuable, collectible certainly due to demand and "legend", but still too plentiful to hit the really high numbers.

    So collectibility varies a lot in definition, I can only say with assurance that mass-produced 4-doors are hopeless as collectibles, but might be fun to drive around anyway in 30-40 years, if they are even allowed on the road!
  • Mr. Shiftright: First, I agree that Rolls of 30's - 50's vintage and certain 60's Mustangs are clearly, among many others, "classics" in the truest sense of the word. However, they are also, already, well-established classics. Moreover, who among us can readily afford a 1931 Rolls? To my mind, this site "future classics," speaks to those contemporary vehicles -- readily available in the marketplace -- that are blue chip prospects for classic cardom. In other words, if you were banking on a future classic, what would you buy today and stash away in the barn for the 4th of July parade in July, 2040 (i.e., Boxster, the upcoming Dodge Charger, and/or Shelby's new vehicle). What would be worth the time and trouble and, also, possibly give you a decent return on your investment?

    Second, with all due respect, I must disagree with your statement that there are no truly "collectible" four doors and/or pick-ups. In my opinion, the 1996 Impala SS (and the slated Mercury Maurader) will make the classic grade. To date, a nice '96 Impala runs approximately $25K. Further, old pick-ups (Chevy and Ford in particular) have a huge rabid following. By way of example, a nice 50's - 60's truck can easily command $25K.

    What contemporary vehicle would you recommend buying today, for under $45K, with the belief that it'd become a future "classic"?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I think you've misread my comments, or perhaps I didn't state them very well. I'm referring to mass-produced 4 door cars, and I must stand on my contention that they will never be classics, based on the historical fact that they have never been yet except for a few rare specially built cars. The 60s Mustangs are not true "classics", as defined by boards of experts who assign the name...there are, in fact, no official "classics" built after 1948 (as yet), although this may change. But you can certainly have some very highly "collectible" 50s & 60s cars that are worth lots of money--no argument there!

    But you will see that these high dollar "modern" cars from the 50s-60s-70s, are to a car all specially optioned and very rare cars, and all are roadsters, converts or muscle-car 4-doors (you are buying the engine and the extreme rarity, not the body!). As for the pickups, again I was referring to mass-produced models. The older pickups are valuable because there are so few of them left. But modern trucks, just by their design, will survive in far greater numbers. But again I could see a few rare-optioned pickups being worth money, like the Syclone...but a run of the mill Dodge Ram, I don't see why anyone would care myself.

    Actually, you can buy a '31 Rolls for around $30,000, the reason being that although rare and coach-built, fewer and fewer people want them...again, supply and demand rules the price.

    I think collectors of the future will seek out those 1990s cars that are very rare, hi-performing and extremely...*extremely* popular right now. So this excludes any 4-doors right off on all counts, IMO. But I think cars like Viper, Porsche Turbo, Saleen Mustangs, perhaps some limited production convertibles, things like that...but not your average Miata or Camaro....they will go into the "affordable collectible" category like the 289 stock 60s Mustangs are now...worth some money, but not huge amounts like the 60s muscle cars.

    But even the special cars of today will first have to go through depreciation before climbing in value, so "socking a car away" is a VERY longterm investment, and for most people who try it, it doesn't pay off. Better to invest in stocks and then use that money to buy a classic in 25 years.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I have a friend who drive a 55 Chevy 4-door sedan, and while it won't command a six figure price tag, its definately a very cool car. In my opinion, almost anything from the 50's would be "collectable", not because they're worth obscene amounts of cash, but because people like the styling, and like to cruise around in something like that. Its the whole image of the car. What cars would be "collectable" in that sense?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I guess if that were your chosen criteria, i.e., anything old is collectible, then any car would qualify as long as it lasts as long as that /55 chevy did, since rarity or styling or engineering would not be a qualifier in that case.

    So any modern sedan would be a "cool car" in the year 2044, since it will appear very quaint to those modern eyes.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    Pretty close, but not quite what I had in mind.
    I doubt cars from the 80's would get quite the same reaction in 2044 as cars from the fifties do today, but I was thinking there's more to being collectable than being worth a boatload of money.
    Take a 57 Bel Air for example. Unless you get one restored to Concourse condition, they're not hideously expensive, and yet they are very popular cars. Why, I don't know, but people seem to like them. On a side note, you mentioned rarity as a condition to make it an expensive collectable. I know a man who says few, if any of today's cars will be around in fifty years because the manufacturers are making them to wear out sooner, and they'll all be junkyard heaps. He says all of todays cars will be extremely rare by then, and anything will be collectable (even a Camry!) Wether or not he's right, only time will tell, but for the sake of my T-Bird, I hope he's wrong.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yes, I see your point, but I think the money factor is important, not because it's about money, but because the desire for that car, that is, the "collectibility quotient" if you will, is SO high that more people want the car than there are cars to acquire. So some old cars are cheap because hardly anybody wants them. Now the few people who do want them are indeed "collecting" them, but it's kind of a stretch to call something "collectible" or "classic", implying that it is some treasured and valuable icon of art or culture when, in fact, the only reason it's a "classic" is because Ralph down the street says so and he has a backyard full of them.

    I know that sounds a touch snobbish, but I'm holding firm here not to say that money buys the best cars (I believe, in fact, that there are still worthy and wonderful old cars out there that money-mad collectors often overlook)--but I'm trying to give some meaning to these words
    "collector car" and "classic", otherwise they are worthless words for communication.

    Fact is, some cars are far more treasured and desired by the general population, and some cars are far more beautiful than others, and perform better, and are rarer than others. Like it says in Animal Farm (Car Farm?)"all cars are created equal, but some cars are more equal than others
    ".

    Also, I think your friend will be proven quite wrong...modern cars are ten times better than old ones and will last much longer--that in fact, is one of the reasons most modern cars won't be collectible--there will be far too many of them around.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    My T-Birds thanks you for giving it a long life expectancy. I see your point about money buying top quality cars. I did a little internet research into the car I used as an example, a 57 Bel Air, and got prices ranging from $5000 to $35000. Go figure. Depends on how restored, customized, decked out, average, clunkerized, or whatever, they were, although I think the average joe looking to get into a headturner could afford to do so without kidnappping a head of state.
    I've established my Grand Marquis has a market value of about $5, but just out of curiosity, what will a 95 T-Bird, not original color (That pearl white is hideous, and has to go-I'm thinking forest green), be worth in 50 or so years?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    About $5, I fear. Most mass-produced, serial production cars are just not going to be worth much, IMO. Now, one might argue "Hey, look at 1965 Mustangs!" True, you can get $15,000 for a nice convertible, but really, this is not big money, especially when you consider that you had to store and restore this car over a period of 34 years. But a rare version of a Shelby Mustang GT350 brings lots bigger bucks...it's a limited production (in some case of the race versions, hand-built!) car of prodigious performance. A far cry from an assembly line T-Bird coupe.

    So I'd say your car has everything against it for being a collectible, not to say it isn't a nice car, just not rare enough or distinctive enough...and also not an open car, which is another minus.

    I'd say drive it, enjoy it, use it up, and let it go when it's worn out, that's the best thing.
  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    If SVT or Shelby were to get a hold of a T-Bird and do something similar to my Dream Car (above mentioned 65 Shelby GT350) or make a NASCAR commemerative limited production series you would have a keeper.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yes, especially a smaller Shelby-type operation. SVT is getting a bit overused, now with SVT pickup trucks and the like. Not to say the products aren't interesting, but I don't think SVT has the "cache" of the Shelby name (not that the Shelby name hasn't been dragged through the commercial mud a few times, like the "Shelby Charger").

    the GT350 you mentioned was a "real" car...I mean, it wasn't just racing stripes with the words "special edition" or "type R" in chrome on the decklid somewhere. Collectors really like cars that can really do what they claim in appearance. Look at the difference in price between similar Corvettes depending on HP options.
  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    Type R is most defintely a purpose built vehicle. Have you driven one or checked out the specs? Street legal race car. Yeah, I know, it's only got a four banger, but the chassis and brakes are very well sorted/suited to track conditions.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    No, no, sorry, I didn't mean THE Type R, I just used the term generically to mean manufacturers slapping decals on their mundane little coupes...
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I guess in your example, a 69 Dodge Charger, while a nice classic muscle car, isn't much of a collecter's item, while a 69 Dodge Daytona, a higher performing variant of the Charger, would be, as only about 500 were produced. (I think Warner Bros. went through about that many Chargers with the Dukes of Hazzard, and still didn't put a dent in the Charger population.) So looking at it today, do we really have any special, limited production sportscars or muscle cars? However, everything except pre-production prototypes and concept vehicles are mass produced (ECON 101-you get more money when supply and demand are equal than when demand and price are high and supply is low), and those vehicles are either destroyed or relegated to company warehouses, so according the Shifty's requirements, for all the cool cars we've got today, none of them will be worth any money on down the road. (Except maybe a Lamborghini or the like, and considering the money they're worth to begin with, I think it will be retention more than getting to be worth a lot of money. Strange, nobody seems to rate a Diablo's reliability like the do with Toyota and Ford.) Anyway, I think in the future, something besides rarity will have to be the deciding factor, as all of the classics will be mass produced.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    It's tough to figure, but really, I don't see how rarity can be excluded, or workmanship. The rarest and most finely built cars will always be the most desired, I think, and the mass-produced ones will perhaps be much loved but not carrying much prestige...kind of like a VW Superbeetle or an old Toyota is now.

    One new factor that might come into play is horsepower (always a factor in collectibility), since cars of the future might not even been gas-powered and may not be very fast, either. So having a 1990s monster V-8 might be worth something.
This discussion has been closed.