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Comments
We went out to dinner last night and I got to drive the 5 in the cold. It also set out for a couple our when we were out in 19F weather, so not quite to -10C and no ill effects. We may or may not see -25C, but not until Jan/Feb. I have talked to my wife and she reports no sounds at all. I looked up the TSB and checked the VIN plate on the care. I was a little surprised to see a build date of 11/06 (we bought in 11/07). It appears that a change may have been made sometime in the 2006 run.
I see that the VINs in the TSB are: 111238 for bushings and 120197 for the Control arm. Ours ends with 141276.
I guess all I can say is start shopping Mazda service. So far we've had pretty good luck with service... the dealership didn't do a walk-around, so our brand new 5 had a dent and had to go to the body shop! Our 2001 Toyota ECHO had basically the same issue with the front suspension and we lucked out with a service department that replaced the entire right front suspension, fixing the issue. Unfortunately, the warranty expired and now the left does it...
I feel really bad for those who have the issue because it ruins such a nice car!
2. The crunch happens anytime it is very cold outside, moreso when it's 32 degrees or less. It is VERY noticeable over speed bumps, large road undulations, or large potholes. Also, if the driveway you are backing out of has a large incline, and you come out fast enough, it will crunch, as well. Minor potholes in the road will sometimes elicit smaller crunch noises, as well. But, after about 20 minutes or so of driving, the suspension seems to warm up and it doesn't make any noises, unless, of course, you go over a large speedbump at speed. The suspension has to articulate just enough for you to hear it well. If it's really cold, however, you don't really need to do much in order to hear it.
Hope that helps answer your questions.
Anyone else out there with the same problem or have had a permanent fix? :shades:
After having the bushings changed in Nov 06 and the control arms replaced in March 07, we continued to have front and rear suspension noise in sub zero temps. I went to a different dealership (where we had had our initial sub-par buying experience) and after listening to the problem, they were happy to replace the bushings and controls arms again, claiming that the previous repairs may not have involved the updated suspension parts. So, two weeks ago we had it done and voila, it has a quiet ride again. It sounds like the new car it is (we have an 06 GT 5sp with 23k km) and makes it a pleasure to drive once more.
The last time we had the bushings replaced, the noise reappeared after 2 months. The last control arm change didn't even score us one day of riding without noise. We will see how long the current 'fix' lasts.
with crossed appendages,
riproy
I took mine in today for an oil change - a fix for the intermittent remote starter problem (yes there is a fix for that too), and "front" bushing replacements again (second time). The Service Manager had said a few weeks ago that they could only do the front bushings (but at that time the noise was from the rear only of my vehicle) so I called Mazda Canada to lodge a complaint about the rear noise. This must have been duly noted, because they replaced both the front and rear bushings today :shades:
I noticed no noise on the short ride home, HOWEVER, there is a note of caution, it is mild out today, -5C, so this is not a true test, but it was nice to hear nothing but road noise
Some people ,on other forums, can't really understand why there is such a fuss about a little squeak here and there. Those who complain about the "crunching noise" may have higher expectations or standards. :P
Anyway, I'm with you, and will cross anything that will help make it a permanent fix.
Are you in a cool climate or cold climate? A colder climate might predict a more sustained crunch. Initially mine would crunch until it warmed up, but later on it crunched all the time.
What year of vehicle - 2007 or 2008?
Out of curiosity to those with squeaky, crunching vehicles regardless of model year - anyone's VIN start with "JP"?
Mine is a 2006. The previous owner said he did have some warranty work done regarding this issue but obviously it didn't take care of the problem.
I'll check my VIN later. What does "JP" mean? I believe all Mazda 5's are made in Japan so if that's what it means, they should all have it.
"The original TSB number 02-007/06 covers vehicles with VINs lower than JM1 CR **** ** 111238 (before Nov 1, 2005) for stabilizer bushings fix and VINs lower than JM1 CR **** ** 120197 before Jan 27 2006 for the lower arm fix. "
I was just wondering if all of the affected vehicles might have come from a specific vehicle type or manufacturing division.
What a VIN means article.
The first character in the WMI sequence represents the country where the vehicle was manufactured. Countries like the United States (1 or 4), Canada (2) and Mexico (3) are represented by numbers while other countries such as Germany (W), Italy (Z) and Japan (J) are represented by letters.
The second character refers to the manufacturer. The characters can be either letters or numbers. For example: Jaguar (A), Dodge (B), Chrysler (C), Jeep (J), Buick (4), Cadillac (6) or Saturn (8).
The third character represents the vehicle type or manufacturing division.
Vehicle Description Section (VDS) and Check Digit
The vehicle description section consists of five characters (the 4th to 8th characters) which identify everything from the body style, engine type, and braking system to model, series, restraint system, etc. The 9th character is a VIN accuracy check digit which verifies the previous VIN numbers. It is determined by carrying out a mathematical computation developed by the Department of Transportation (DOT).
Vehicle Identification Section (VIS)
The vehicle identification section includes the last eight characters in the VIN number. The numbers identify the model year (10th character) and the assembly plant for the vehicle (11th character). A number or letter may represent the model year. For example: 1998 (W), 2000 (Y), 2007 (7) or 2008 (8).
The 12th to 17th characters are the actual serial number of the vehicle—these last 6 digits make the vehicle unique (think of DNA). It can also help to identify whether the vehicle was the first, the hundredth, or the last vehicle off the manufacturer’s assembly line. This is valuable information for collectors.
Somewhere I read on a post perhaps or elsewhere that the bushings they had used were a plastic material, but the service tech said they were rubber which is the opposite if what I read and the reason for the problems. Does anyone else recall what the defective bushings were made of?
I did take mine back in for the front bushings; however, they also replaced the rear ones as well because I had registered a complaint.
The outcome - no CRUNCH - not even at -25C. One of the front desk people said that the reason for the initial problem was the fact that the "rubber" bushings get cold and turn hard and therefore there is insufficient cushioing effect.
I found that "interesting" because I had read way back that the bushings they chose for this vehicle were "not rubber" but some plastic material which would not stand up in colder climates, hence the squeaking and crunching problems.
I'll take what I can get but I am concerned over the long term how things will pan out after the warranty expires?
I'm happy to report that my second fix, done before the holidays, and applied to both the front and rear bushings has withstood the cold temperatures (-30 C) here in Winnipeg.
This is not the case for all Mazda5 owners unfortunately here and elsewhere, but it should be.
According to Mazda Canada, the parts that they replaced are the same as the parts they put on as replacements.
If the 08s have eliminated the problem (i hope they have, but i have my doubts), then these "new" parts could be used to fix the 07s and 06s since the design i believe has not changed, but they do not seem to have a true fix for this (according to my email back-and-forth with Mazda Canada).
What do you all think?
It is truly a very strange situation to have some vehicles fixed without any recurrence of the crunch, and others to have the same problem come back time and again? What does Mazda Canada or Mazda USA which controls Mazda Canada have to say about this? I think they should be forced to extend all affected vehicles' warranties (in an expression of good faith to customers and an effort to maintain their credibility.
I have a survey to complete and return to Mazda Canada after my last servicing - I am going to pose this to them I will not complete the survey online, I want a record of this communication.
I'm going to get started again... we coughed up for an extended warranty (first time for everything). Thanks for your comments.
R0802BRX R&R Rear Stab links
2 C243-28-156D Bush, Stabi
XXB427R1 R&R Front Stabilizer Bushings
2 CC29-34-156C Bush, Stabi
I'll start:
2006 Mazda5 GT
VIN JM1CR293560126200
It might help to explain why yours (and others) are still crunching and it might give you more assistance is getting the problem under control if they are using the earlier versions of the "defective" bushings.
Mazda does not seem very responsive and anyone who tells you that its not a big deal is lying. Your control arms and bushings are an important part in keeping your tires properly on the road. If they are not functioning properly how could you be getting the right ride. If they are binding in the cold then they can't act like springs, which is what they are supposed to do. How can bolts fail after only 28k miles? I no longer let my children ride in this car since I do not feel it is safe. What will break next?
By the way I have also had the lurching problem between first and second gear. They did a recalibration of the powertrain control module, helped a little. I have also had an ABS sensor cord short out as well.
I am desperately trying to get out of this nightmare but am not getting anywhere fast. I hate to share this bad news but I feel that I should let others know that they may have to look for other issues on their cars for the sake of safety!
To anyone else who is interested the latest bulletin is TSB 02-005/07. The only problem is it did not work either. I took it in again after they did this TSB, for the seventh time and Mazda refused to do anything but put some silicone lubricant on the front stabilizer bushings. Even the service manager thought this was a "band-aid" fix. They also loosened and re-torqued both lower control arms. Why they did this for a problem that is supposedly "not a big deal" I don't know. Good luck all!
I own an 06 and an 08 (both Mazda5s) and no suspension trouble. I live in the northeast US. The only issue that I've heard is that the dashboard crunches a little on rough roads when extremely cold (10-30F), but that is pretty much it. Now, I also heard it on my past cars (as well as squeaky suspension on my old Honda Civic on cold weather) so possibly I'm used to it
Well, what can I say, best of luck!
The new Consumer Reports Auto Issue shows a bad mark for suspension in 2006, but for 2007 it improves to very good. Let's hope they're right.
I have my doubts about that since there are still numerous reports of issues with this car regarding a variety of problems. Also noticed that Mazda stopped advertising this vehicle for several months in the newspapers. This could be because they were pushing their other models. Recently I saw a TV advertisement for the "newly" designed Mazda 5. Exactly what they changed I don't know.
As I told Mazda Canada several times, I like this vehicle because it offers things that other manufacturers don't, but I really never expected to encounter such disregard for consumer satifaction. The Protege also had exactly the same problem and Mazda let the consumers down on fixing that problem once the warranty expired.
Coolmazda
I am still (touch wood) crunch free and it is still pretty cold here since my last fix. in December. Can you tell us what your bushing parts numbers are (specifically the "letter" after the part number (eg. 156A, or 156 B or 156C). Thanks
I am hopeful but realistic after being let down so many times before. And it looks like MAZDATIRED may have had this done already with no success.
So far I have been crunch-free since December 17th 2007.
Another owner is also crunch-free so far.
The parts numbers should be (CC29-34-156C (front) and C243-28-156D (rear).
Best of luck, let us know how it works out in the fall.
Now the TSB does not specifically mention alignment of rear but does about the front end. There are bushings on the rear that were replaced as result of this TSB as well. Is an alignment a MUST when replacing rear bushings?
On the invoice there is no mention of front or rear end alignment, only parts replaced. The reason I mention all of this is because this is my 2nd set of tires and the rears both times had inside tire wear. When I brought the car to the dealer 1/08 they made no mention of wear upon their 'full circle inspection'. I brought to them again 2/08 and they said I have uneven inside tire wear on the rears and need an alignment which would be out of pocket expense.
Through course of time while vehicle was under warranty I complained about unusual loud rear end noise when driving and bumps. My assessment is they did not perform alignment and are negligent from their work performed as a result of incorrect assessment on 1/08. My 5 has since gone off warranty.
Please add you comments as I am gathering as much input as possible before sending CRRR letter to Mazda NA.
Back in Jan 08 I took my car to the dealer and finally convince them to perform the TSB released/revised 12/07 in regard to my numerous complaints about the crunching suspension issues many here have complained about.
Did the cruching start recently and therefore they elected to apply the TSB that was issued for the front end? and not apply the previously issued TSB which covered both front and rear? Was your VIN not within range for the first TSB?
Now the TSB does not specifically mention alignment of rear but does about the front end. There are bushings on the rear that were replaced as result of this TSB as well. Is an alignment a MUST when replacing rear bushings?
The second TSB was a fix for the front end because the previous correction for the front did not work; therefore they reworked the bushings for the front. For my own car after the first TSB fix, the rear end was what went first. After calling the dealership, they told me they could fix the front (which wasn't a problem - YET), so I called Mazda Canada. When I took it in, they fixed both front and rear. The front started shortly after I had called.
On the invoice there is no mention of front or rear end alignment, only parts replaced.
After speaking to independent mechanics (two of them), they both indicated that it would be normal procedure to do an alignment. There was no alignment done on the first fix, but soon after that fix my car started pulling to the left. Alignment was done under warranty even though the dealership said it wasn't needed. I did obtain a before and after print out which shows it was changed (remember they said it didn't need it so why change it).
The reason I mention all of this is because this is my 2nd set of tires and the rears both times had inside tire wear. When I brought the car to the dealer 1/08 they made no mention of wear upon their 'full circle inspection'. I brought to them again 2/08 and they said I have uneven inside tire wear on the rears and need an alignment which would be out of pocket expense.
Unbelievable. There is lots of discussion on excessive tire wear on the original tires (as well as poor traction in wet road conditions). Most people just dump the tires after the first year. This ends up being an out of pocket expense but it could be a safety issue. There are a few more Mazda forums so if you can't find the discussion on this one through a search, try the others. Some even post the TSBs.
Through course of time while vehicle was under warranty I complained about unusual loud rear end noise when driving and bumps. My assessment is they did not perform alignment and are negligent from their work performed as a result of incorrect assessment on 1/08. My 5 has since gone off warranty.
I would print off some of the comments from other forums and take those to them. I should share with you that I was advised by the salesperson to dump the tires after the first year. You might check MyCarStats as well, you can sign up can get notices automatically sent to you.
"Did the cruching start recently and therefore they elected to apply the TSB that was issued for the front end? and not apply the previously issued TSB which covered both front and rear? Was your VIN not within range for the first TSB?"
The crunching started the first year of purchase, (4/2006). They refused to address the TSB in winter 06 when I noticed the crunch sounds. Basically they could not replicate the sound so it was dismissed. The VIN was not in range, barely, but this was not an issue with repair.
One thing I did notice about the TSB repair they performed is the workable hours exceed the time range on the document. They did not present me with before and after alignment specs, so I assume it was not done. Since they submit the work invoice to NA, this may constitute fraud?
Well, I am so fed up with the dealers in this area I basically refuse to bring the car to them unless NA enforces directives to them at their cost. I will prepare letters to NA at this point. After the TSB repair the idiot at the desk 'assumed' I was going to perform their 50k service plus flush the brake fluid system, power steering resevoir and cooling system as well as change the air filter, all at a cost of over $900! I said to him I do not need those things and can do some of that work myself if necessary, and mentioned the costs were prohibitive especially at the $95/hr labor rate. When he broke down the charges, $50 for the air filter boiled me (I bought it from Mazda @ 12 bucks and took me 5 min). Once I refused he said I was 'insulting' them because I entrust my car for warranty work and not regular maintenance! Incredible! This is only one of many issues....
I have a 1994 626 and never had as many issues as I have with the 5. This will be the last Mazda I ever buy.
Tks
Once I am presented with the service report for review (and before they separate the copies) I freely make comments on the service record. I don't think they appreciate it but it doesn't matter to me.
Since the last service visit, I won't sign anything until I check out the vehicle to ensure that they did what they are billing for, and I get what I want.
Mmmm, sounds like some service centres have been trained by someone to get the response that you did.
Perhaps you should escalate things - go to the Service Manager, then General Manager, then the area representative. It is an an eye-opener what you have been through and I would be ticked. I've heard of dissatisifed customers parking their vehicle near the dealership and put signs on it to warn other potential customers. I know one person who crafted a lemon and bolted that to his car with signs. It got their attention.
I also enjoy my vehicle and after many months of searching and comparing, I decided to purchase this one. Since Mazda had a fairly good rating and made decent vehicles it seemed like a good option.
I can deal with problems arising, what I can't deal with is arrogant service desk people and service managers who tend to "blame the customer" for issues with the cars; or use the standard phrase "couldn't duplicate the problem" which seems to be similar to their first reaction to place the fault on the owner. This is particularly difficult to take when I have the TSB in my hand that says this is a known problem. Apparently it is only known to those owners who have to do their own searching to solve a problem, not to those who should know about them - that's why the car manufacturers post them.
Anyways, no Canada does not have Lemon Laws - it has been proposed in the past but it was struck down by one of our larger provinces - perhaps on that had a large number of car dealerships/manufacturers, or there was too much lobbying from them against it? The proposal was recently raised again this time because of faulty or damaged vehicles that were being imported into Canada, and unscrupulous dealers who were not informing unsuspecting car buyers that the cars were damaged or covering up the fact that they were defective. So it may become a law but probably not in my lifetime.
I too had a recurring problem (due to an installation of a Mazda item by the service centre) and had reported it 4 times. On my fifth time I called Mazda and gave them an ultimatum - fix it or remove it and refund my money. Their response was we would fix it if the service centre told us what was wrong - take it in again. Good grief why am I doing all the leg work and inconveniencing myself. Why can't they find the problem, report it to Mazda if they authorization, and just fix it.
It gets to be all too much.