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The Civic a nice dependable, safe car; sure. Will it hold its value well, no problem. Fun to drive and own, okay. But a 'great value' at msrp, I do not agree. If you can afford or are willing to pay this now, then that is your decision, you still have a good car, and you are not a fool. But ultimately the Civic will be defined by how it measures upto the competition, once there are plenty of them being produced. The market now is ripe for the current pricing situation. Economically, now is not the time for 'good value ' purchases.
BTW, the 06 Civic has yet to be crash tested, so the jury is out on the safety,although the odds are good that it will do well.
A question to Honda dealers/sellers. Which is a better buy for the same price? An LX Accord or an EX Civic?
Please see my previous post..
Every year the Civic is in the top 10 selling cars (and often THE top selling compact car). There will be no short supply of Civics going forward! Don't get suckered into paying MSRP unless you really can't wait a few months for new transportation.
Just look at the Prius, which is made in much more limited supply than the Civic. When the Prius first came out people were paying thousands over MSRP and there was a waiting list. Now, supply has increased a tad, and excitement over the new car has waned, and look what has happened - in most places there is no longer a waiting list for the Prius, and you can even buy for $500 under MSRP in some places. And this is for a hybrid that is production-limited due to limited supply of hybrid components! The Civic is a conventional car - there will be plenty of supply!
Final case in point if you don't get it: when you drive around how many Civics do you see on the road? TONS! A year from now when you see a TON of '06 Civics on the road, do you think people will have all paid MSRP for these cars? NO! Paying MSRP for new cars is only acceptable for luxury vehicles and special situations (like hybrids). Common cars on the road are not purchased for MSRP, and MSRP is certainly not a "fair" price for any consumer.
Don't get suckered by greedy dealers who are taking advantage of the current situation on the '06 Civic!
I doubt very much that you have much of an idea what it costs to open the doors every month. Incredible.
And, no good answer to your question.
Have you ever owned your own business?
What would YOU do if you had a lot of eager buyers and little to no inventory?
Would you discount a product that you don't have to?
I don't know why leased cars would be excluded. Coming to a price that's acceptable to both parties is the same either way.
No problem...
But, respectfully, as an owner of two business - I have to disagree with you on some things...
We business owners all have overhead to deal with. BUT, I am also pretty well versed in tax incentives, write-offs, credits, loopholes, etc., as I excercise as many as I possibly can every year.
With this said, I too, understand the bottom line, to maximize your profit. But, I, as a business owner, also know that any losses, will be recouped. Now, this is NOT to say that I am opposed to a businessperson making money (that would be hypocritical, counterproductive, and silly on my part). But what I WILL say, is that in business, money isn't the only part of the equation. Customer satisfaction is what drives your business, and ultimately THRIVES your business if you will. I do NO formal advertising (I'm a private children's portrait photographer), and I incorporated in 2002.
Also, the Civic is not the only car that Honda makes and/or sells. Not to mention, dealers sell used cars off of their lots at a VERY HIGH profit margin. Also, Honda's 3% holdback on the base MSRP plus dealer to manufacturer incentives, sales/performance bonuses, etc., all add up to a lot of money. Much more money and advantages that I get as a sole proprietor!
So, if I am wrong with anything that I have stated, please let me know. But, me getting a new Civic for $500 over invoice is not going to close the dealership. Not even close. Not even if EVERY purchaser got a new Civic at that rate for a year.
It just hurts SOME people to know when they could get MORE money out of a customer. Whereas, I believe that giving and fairness reaps better rewards (and I have tried a few different business models in my time!), and has actually shown to be quite fruitful for me and my businesses. I enjoy repeat customers and positive referrals for a service that is a luxury, not a necessity.
Honda is not going to file Chapter 11, and neither would a dealership selling the Civics at INVOICE even. I'm not asking for that. I just don't want to be made out to be silly just because I'm looking for a fair deal.
OK - ISELLHONDAS, after all of that, I have a new question for you. If I went to ORDER a car, and say my car was included as part of the next shipment, wouldn't that be an even better deal for a salesperson/dealer? You have a pretty much guaranteed sale, you help reach your personal sales goal and the dealership's, you don't have to worry about it sitting on the lot and paying a lot fee, and you don't have to SELL the vehicle because the customer has come to you. Plus, you get all of those great incentives and holdbacks (and I know that incentives aren't necessarily regular, but the holdback is).
So, what say you? Am I missing something here? The reason why I ask is because someone had stated "good luck looking to pay anything less than sticker plus some" to an order scenario.
I disagreed.
"What would YOU do if you had a lot of eager buyers and little to no inventory?
Would you discount a product that you don't have to?"
This dynamic is precisely why car dealers will never overcome the "greedy" moniker, whether it's a fair label or not! And exactly why smart consumers should WAIT for the dust to settle if they plan to buy a '06 Civic. Thanks for making my point for me isellhondas!
If I were the dealer the only reason I'd discount the hot '06 Civic right now is if I was trying to generate goodwill and repeat business from the customer. Unfortunately, this is probably the last thing on your salesperson's mind because employee turnover is so high that chances are they won't stay at the dealership long enough to see the customer come back and make a repeat purchase from them!
I lucked out last year: I bought a Corolla for $700 under invoice (which I thought was a phenomenal deal). I was so happy with my experience, I now want to buy a Prius from the same guy and dealership.
Get a grip, people. Be paitient, and wait for the pipeline to fill, or pay up, and drive one home today. Like everyone else here, I never want to pay more than I have to for anything. It's the idea that you are ENTITLED to a discount that I don't get, or that paying full list is a crime against nature. Jeez, just buy something else!?
If the car is really a poor value, then presumably there must be lots of alternatives. Let's get the discussion back to what actual buyers are paying, and how that transaction went - that is the purpose of this forum, I thought....
Also..incentives? on a brand new red hot car? Don't think so.
As far as your ORDERED car...it doesn't matter. It's worth whatever the market value happens to be. Makes no difference at all.
I bought a Accord EXV6 in 2003 when the new model came out, I paid $200 over invoice for it, to get that price it was around the end of Nov. early December before the the Accord prices fell from MSRP.
We're in the same situation here with the new model, so if you can wait until about December, you'll save $1500 or so. Now the question is, is $1500 worth 2 months of using the car, you decide, it's your money.
I'm going to buy a 06 civic too so I'll be waiting until december, like many have said before, the civic is not a rare car, they just make more if they need it. Just wait until the supply catches up.
Alex
Surprised? A lot of people are happy paying the prevailing market value.
If paying less is that important, yes, you should wait for inventories to increase.
Repeat and referral business is VERY important to me. I've been here for 10 years and a great deal of my business comes from repeat and referral customers.
Greed go's both ways, however, and the greedy price shoppers are the least loyal ones out there.
If you bought your Corolla for 700.00 under invoice...that was the VALUE of that car at that time. I hope you do return to that same salesperson.
I guess my problem is that it is intimated that you are being silly and dunderheaded if you want to get the best price for yourself.
I don't think that anyone is making a big deal. Yes, some people may have more lofty and/or almost impossible price goals for the car, but I do not believe that I'm making a big deal. I wasn't asking for invoice as I stated. So if $500 or $1,000 should not a big deal on my end, then why do dealers act as if they would rather die than to make the sale (that still includes a profit) and let it go for $500 or $1,000 less? It's not a big deal, right? Obviously, we both share the same beliefs, just a matter of perspective =]
I plan on leasing, which means I can write-off my payment, gas, tolls, parking, oil changes, insurance, etc... but that's not the point. I still have to pay out before I can get back, and I too, am a business person. We're just on opposite sides of the table.
Have you ever bought or sold a house? Is it no big deal for an agent to tell you that $10,000 is inconsequential when added to the price? Maybe for them it's only roughly an extra 6% = $600 on the line - but to you it's still $10,000 (without adding interest). And most people with money didn't get it or keep it by not being shrewd and remembering that the pennies actually do add up.
Also, if you check what I wrote, I did say that incentives were irregular, but holdback is with every sale. But, you still get incentives at times, and they cannot be entirely dismissed as peanuts.
I do thank you for reading and replying.
You're actually making me think that I should open a car dealership as my third enterprise....
Good day!
They tried to get me to sign complicated financial schemes that are so confusing that I did not know whether I was coming or going. I was so glad that I got out of the showroom alive that I did not want to go into one again. They play this waiting game. "Wait here, my manager is coming to talk to you........" etc. But as I said, the Internet Managers usually pan me out to the floor salesman and they have been calling. I have not shown up yet. As we go on I will share my experience with how it came to pass between me and the Internet Managers. I would appreciate some feedback from you. A lot went on, and needless to say, after one month I still have not been able to buy this 'hot car' at a reasonable price.
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For folks like you (and sometimes myself), I recommend the "bobst" approach. Simply go to the dealership (after doing your homework of course), and make them a written offer, and stick to your guns. Go there on a busy busy Sat. afternoon. If you're not in the ball park, they won't waste their time with you. Go there when they're not busy and they have all the time in the world to play games.
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Be very specific with your offer in terms of price paid including ALL dealer fees, financing, and even state tax & title fees for a final out the door price. In my state, sales tax is 6% plus $50 and a tag transfer is about $150.
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For example
Price of car = $20000 (tell them 1000 times, includes all dealer fees)
Sales tax = $1250
Tag transfer = $150
Final out the door price = $21400.
Financed at my local credit union for 6% for 60 months = $414/month
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Obviously if you have a trade or are putting money down, account for that.
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Good luck and let us know how it works out.
I haven't, but I do wonder if dealers can tack anything onto that supposedly "fixed" price. For example, one local dealership has signs on the showroom walls that state, "a $395 service charge is added to ALL sales." Can these and other such charges and fees be added to the buying service prices?
Ideally, the out-the-door price would consist ONLY of the pre-negotiated price + freight + state sales tax + state (not DEALER) licencing/registration fee.
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Don't bother...Tried Costco, and it did not work when I tried to get a Civic EX with NAV. Dealership told me its a hot selling car and they won't be discounting anytime soon. E-mailed Costco and told them what was the point in having this Dealership on their list as preferred agents to give us something like a deal ?
I've said this so many times....Ask someone you know who recently bought for a referral. If they were happy they will be gals to pass on the name of a store/salesperson who treated them well.
That NAVI Civic, especially with a five speed may prove to be a difficult car to find at ANY price!
Shuffles, I agree, paying MSRP for a civic when you can get an accord at invoice price is silly, the accord hands down is the bang for buck.
Alex
I really want the EX Coupe Auto with Navi. when it comes out in Rallye Red in January. A lot of people here seem to be saying that if we can wait a few months, we will be paying closer to invoice price for the new Civics. My question is, how will the Rallye Red Civics be affected, since they won't even come out until January? Do you think that the dealerships will be trying to get MSRP for them even in January, since they are then going to be a "new hot item?"
Also, I was just curious as to what prices people were paying for EX Couple Auto. with Navi. right now.. ?
Any good suggestions for dealerships in IL?
Thanks for the info!
To bad Mark Roberts dosent have the car I want in stock at the moment, or I would be buying a car today. They have a Silver 5mt Coupe on order. The other dealers look like they have cars I would take. But I dont do dealer transfers.
OOO well the waiting game goes on. :shades:
$14400 sale price
$1204 approx NY taxes
$199 documentation fee (imho, its a bs fee)
$100 NY registration
So out the door price was $15900. Is that a good deal?
For that matter the Tulsa dealers will also if car is available and you are ready to buy.
IN fact my buddy paid invoice for a limited production 06 Accord EX V-6 sedan with new 6 speed at Bob Howard. 30 Sep deal. Not bad on what will be a rare tranny combination.
I bought my Civic at Don C Honda and they matched MR but car was in stock and I MR had one also so they just wanted a quick sale. I think they will match occasionally as good business but they do not really like it.
Patience..
What is the current holdback dealers receive for hondas? Is it still 3% of the msrp? I want to use it in figuring into my negociations later this year when they are more willing to deal.
Thanks,
Dave
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BTW, I agree that it is a two way street and there are 'greedy' customers also, that is why a fair balance is needed, somewhere between msrp and invoice that is mutually acceptable by both parties. I do not like the way autos are priced where the same vehicle sells for so many different prices, like hotel rooms or airfares. It would be better if there was one price that everyone paid for, the dealer made a profit, and the customer doesnt feel they paid too much.
Could you believe that the price of a Civic is more than a Camry LE today?
I got 2006 Camry LE Auto out the door (included all the fees) under $19,000 in Southern California... the tax rate (8.25%) here is higher than most of other states.
One suggestion, if you go to the Honda website and use their locate a dealer function, it will list all dealers in your area. A lot of them have links to their websites and you can search inventory. It's not always reliable, but if you find something listed you can always call or email to verify. Just an idea.
I am from the Detroit area.
I am going to Honda Bloomfield today. They advertised in the Detroit New a 2006 LX Automatic Sedan for $16,125.00.
http://hondaofbloomfield.com/
http://hondaofbloomfield.com/Specials-PrintAd.aspx
I will let you know what happens.
Paul
Ok, I have been a salesman for over 30 years & I am here to tell you from experience. If you want something that is HOT! wait 6-9 months & you will get your price. This is based on experience. How about the cabbage patch doll, you cannot even give them away now. Anyway, take a deep breath, and relax. Now, ask the saleman how he will make a living if all of the cars are really sold out in 6 months. Look up Open Road Honda & Koons Honda on the internet for instant prices & try again in 3-6 months. You will be plesantly supprised.
Now, caculate 40mpg from 30mpg * the miles you drive & see how much you save.
Ugh, is this really worth buying a 20k car..... Personally, I am waiting for the 2007 when things settle down. Remember, the premium you pay today will NOT come back to you in a resale.
Logic would dictate that they'd be trying to move the remaining '05s, but logic doesn't seem to apply to a lot of things in the world of car sales.
Since the '06's are still in such short supply, they probably want to hang on to the few remaining '05's, figuring there are people out there who like the older styling better and are willing to pay list price (or something very close to it) in order to get a new one.
I'm in a market for '06 Civic LX (auto) coupe
or '06 Civic LX (manual) coupe.
Test drove the auto but haven't had the opportunity to test drive the manual. I kept reading about how poor the manual trans. shifts. :confuse:
Thanks.