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Massresident, can you please tell us the dealership you bought from in Cambridge. We spend summers on cape cod and if Grand Honda is any indication of Chicagoland dealers, I will wait and buy in Mass this summer.
If he has any more at that price, we will be happy to send a truck and a check for all he has in stock! These are in VERY short supply!
Have you tried (gasp) picking up the phone and CALLING him?
Please anyone, clarify this for me. I am confused. Thanks, Manny
Makes us all look bad.
I also received the same quote this week from Grand Honda but have not followed up with them yet. We bought an 01 Civic LX there in 03/01 at invoice plus the price of mud guards and door egde guards which they conveniently had added to the price of all of their cars on the lot. The process went smoothly and even with the addons beat all other dealers at the time by $500.00.
Car salesmen are paid on a percentage of the profit of the sale. This percentage varies from dealership to dealership but usually runs in the 20% to 25% range. (Some dealerships use "sales teams." In this method, one salesperson will give you the test drive, do the write-up, etc. and the "team manager" will close the deal. In this case, they share the commission.) So if you buy a new car for, say, $300 over the invoice cost, the salesman may earn only a $50 to $75 commission.
In addition to his commission, though, the salesman can earn bonuses that are available from both the dealership and the manufacturer for good sales performance. Usually bonuses - or "spiffs" - are offered to any salesman who sells, say, over 8 cars in a month. "Spiffs" may also be offered for meeting certain profit goals (for example, selling a car for $1,000 over the invoice cost), selling certain profit-making extras (such as paint or fabric protection, alarms, extended warranties, etc.), selling a particularily hard-to-sell vehicle, and so on.
According to a recent national survey, the average commission for car salesmen is $250 per vehicle sold. The average selling price per vehicle is about $1,000 over the invoice cost. And the average number of cars sold is 8 to 10 vehicles per salesman per month.
Do not go there until you get everything confimed in writing. I repeat.
I had a similar experience with Metro Honda of Route 22, New Jersey. The Internet Manager gave me a qote of circa $300 above invoice for a Civic 06 EX MT with Navi, or $1900. That is an unbelievable price. This was verbal. He would not confirm it over the Internet by putting it down in writing. I repeatedly asked him and no answers. He just told me to come in. I called him again and again until I pinned him down. I told him that I would only come in if he answers affirmatively and attach the answer to my e mail that he will order the vehicle for me, and that he will take my deposit and agree to that in writing. That the ordered vehicle is to be given to me when it arrives, and not to the highest bidder that he happens to find along the way. That he would not purposely keep me waiting for a certain period of time, that he would not jack up the price in between and play games. I also want him to confim that the price he quoted on the telephone, $1900 with destination fee included but not tax and license fees is correct, that I would not be forced to finance the car through him or purchase any other services or products through him in the future. He said that he was not playing games and just waiting for me to come in. When I pressed him to answer me in writing again, ultimately he said that the price he offered me has expired, now he needs MSRP for a factory order,
because he had no longer have the car. He just sold it, or so he said. So I thanked him for his honesty and not wasting my time for a trip. This is the second worst experience that I ever had with Honda Dealers. The first is the one at Paragon of Queens,NYC, who lured me to come in, lying to me that they have the car in stock. Then they worked me over with three different salesmen to get me to buy another car because they really never had the car I want in stock. Then tried to confuse me by renaming the 06 Civic EX with MT and Navi as 06 Civic EX 5 Speed with Navi, and showed me a vin number of a Civic EX with Navi and 5 Speed AUTOMATIC in their incoming cars' list. When I told them it is a five speed MANUAL that I want, they changed salesman again, got a senior and most cunning and experienced salesperson to try to take me out of the market else where, but only to deal with them. He warned me not to go to any other car dealer to order the exact car, because only they have the pull to get the car I want through an order or a swap, and asking me to pay them a premium in order to get the car. What a nightmare, and the worst part was it all happened in true life, in broad daylight, not in a dream.
Thanks for listening, tell me what you think, you and all others that read this. Manny
I am beginning to think that "honest car salesman" is an oxymoron. If you get something in writing they may find a loophole even still.
When I got my last Civic a guy from my church met me at the dealership and negotiated the deal for me. It was awful!!! He got me a fantastic deal (NO DOUBT) but only after getting in the salesman's face and saying "I heard you tell her that over the phone!" Then he threated DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICE and told them that it was triple damages. Which it is!
They gave me the fantastic deal on the fact that WE PROMISED NOT TO SUE. You may not know it but it is illegal to give someone a deal over the phone and not live up to it!
I have test driven the 06 EX Civic and really like it but have to wait til January for red. My salesman informed me that Honda was going to get away from the haggling and get like Saturn. I told him that would be very good.
Go to the dealership, test drive, then offer the salesman invoice and inform him that you will give him the $300 for commission.
Would that work?
Amazing...
Of course that wouldn't work and if it did we would have a very dishonest customer as well as a dishonest salesperson.
Guess money is all that matters here.
Instead of "threated" I mean "threatened."
The best bet there is probably a group buy (ala BJ's or some other buying block that will handle it all for you at a reasonable price and fee).
I agree -- for the salesman to do it would be dishonest and unethical. For the customer to find someone to represent him/her is a reasonable request -- and I bet if the salesman did agree to it you would be hard pressed to prosecute the customer.
Isellhondas, the reason I didn't call yet again is that I had already had a thirty minute conversation with him and what I needed was something in writing before driving down. I am too busy to waste my time on "bait and switch" sales practices and after the third email was too disgusted with this internet sales manager to want to work further with him.
I probably lose some business that way but I figure if the customer doesn't trust me, I really don't care. On to the next!
I posted this as well in the Honda Accord: prices paid. I was wondering if people that are looking more for a Civic will have a different point of view.
I have to make a decision by tomorrow. Hope someone will have some advises for me. I got the following 2 deals and I am really hesitating on making a choice:
1. 2006 Accord Coupe LX MT $16300 (destination charge included) + TTL and taxes: $4000 below MSRP, $2000 below invoice. (mud guards and winter mats included)
2. 2006 Civic LX Sedan AT $16700 (Invoice at $16375)
Well, I originally had my eyes on the coupe, and as you can see I got a very good deal (thanks from all of your posts guys). However, this dealer had about twelve 2005 accord coupe while only one accord sedan 2005 (an EX manual) letf on the lot!!!! Is there anything wrong with the coupe??? Are people shying away from them in favor of the sedan? I also saw plenty of those used coupe returned after 1-3 years when surfing online (maybe this is just an impression since I was putting my eyes on one). I am asking this question to those who owned a coupe and after the "initial falling in love story", they felt that it was really not practical and sold it. I just got married and we are planning to have kids in 2-3yrs... We have currently a 1999 Civic SE sedan as a second car.
The other car we looked at with my wife is the sedan Civic 2006 (I was able to get decent deal given that everyone get this car at MSRP). My wife would prefer the Civic... I opted for an auto as we wouldn't have been able to get an MT within a month with the color we wanted. Hard to find.
So now, my second question (maybe related to the first one) is beyond personal preference, would the resale value down the road (3yrs or 10yrs) of the accord 2005 coupe (or sedan if coupe is not really the way to go) be more than that of the Civic 2006 (given that I am paying pretty much the same price for both at this point)???
Please let me know what you think (hope someone will read that by tomorrow. The deal holds only by the end of the month)
Thanks
Didier
Between the Accord and Civic sedan you should really test drive them both and see which one will work better for you. the Accord will be a bit bigger and safer while the Civic will get better gas mileage and drive sportier. Drive both and buy what YOU like. Someone's opinion on here will do you no good when you get the car home and you are the one making the payments.
Can someone please tell me if this is an ok deal. $19,110 for a 06 Civic EX but with tax, tags, and "dealer processing or any dealer installed options" the out the door price is $20,364.00. Is this ok? I've never purchased a new car so is the extra 1,200 for that stuff on average or is it a way for them to up the price?
Thank you in advance to anyone who replies.
I received a second e-mail today from Grand Honda with an additional $200.00 off if I purchase within one week from the original e-mail. Also, my quote of $16,875 for Civic LX included destination and the e-mail stated that the price was good until Monday or while supplies last. I think $16,675 would be a very good price right now on a 06 but I am going to wait unitl the end of the year when Grand will most likely be advertising Civics at invoice. If you are ready to buy I would go there and if they have some market adjustment or other excessive charges just walkout and take the e-mail quote to another dealer and see if they will match it. The only additonal charge is sales tax, title/plates and the $55.00 doc fee which I believe is capped in Illinois at that amount. My friend got Autowerks in Rockford to match their advertised price on a 2005 Accord EX V6 in August of $22,800 after they originally quoted him $500.00 over invoice.
I owned a Saturn for 13 years, and would still be owning it had I known how hard it is to purchase a new car. I was a pleasure when I bought the car from Saturn 13 years ago. I was very particular about the color, I wanted manual transmission, but no power steering because I want to feel the road. I wanted anti-lock brakes which were new at the time to cars of Saturn's class. I wanted driver side airbags too. And I wanted the brakes to be four wheel disc, instead of front disc and rear drum. They gave me a no hassle fixed price. They did a factory order, and I got the car 'custom made.'
That was the year the Saturn was the hot car of the year, and the Saturn 'No Hackle' with sales people on a steady salary with some 'bonus for being extra nice to customers' included was the policy. They took my picture next to my car and posted it on the board. I serviced and repair my car for 13 years only at the same dealership in return.
There were many appreciative letters to Saturn from customers also posted on the board. That was an experience that I never forgot.
I did not buy a new car from Saturn this time around because the Saturn Ion had a cockeyed centered instrumental panel, placed out of the line of direct vision of the road ahead. Now I am suffering at the selling method of the Honda Motor's Dealers. I certainly hope that the sales people who rumoured that Honda is going to have a no haggle policy will come true. I also hope that they will have a 'direct made to order method' of making cars for sale, instead of having the customer to search for cars that happens to fit them all over.
The Hondas are very good cars, but Saturns have superior sales methods, but the design and reliability of their cars these years are not quite as good.
I must be an imperfect world that we live in. Why can't car companies strive to be good in everything?
Thanks to all, Manny
I am taking your criticism to heart.
Thanks. Manny
If my friend had given the car dealership an extra $750, the salesman might get an extra $60, if he gets 8 percent above invoice. And it is only illegal if you get caught. Also the dealer might sanction the salesperson. But in this unfair society where the powers to be, in this case the dealers, get all the legal sanctions to protect their unfair share of the profits, the poor salespersons need a break. And the poor customers need a break too.
I do not see it as a moral issue either. Back in the days when people own slaves, it was taught to the slaves that it was immoral to run away, or steal from their owners. But it was perfectly legal and morally correct for the owners to rob the slaves of their freedom, the sweats of their labor, or even to exploit them sexually.
This is not to the same degree here. But I think that a lot of the difficulties that we the car buyers encounter is built into the system. The owners of car vending businesses hire a bunch of hungry people and ask them to prey on the customers.
If they manage to take from the customers a whole chunk of money, the owners want most of it, and then give them the leftovers. That is why there are so many desperate salespersons that resort to any means to get their money. If the customer can do anything to even the playing field, why not?
Thanks, Manny
Thank you...
kyfdx
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Here is the ad:
http://hondaofbloomfield.com/Specials-PrintAd.aspx
I never cease to be amazed by what I read in these forums!
Sorry...carry on!
With or without NAVI?
My girlfriend and I wanted to buy a new Civic Coupe (EX or LX). So I did research here and other places and we used Edmunds.com and Carsdirect.com to send out requests to the dealers in the Houston area. As expected the responses we got back were basically MSRP. Sand Dollar in the Galveston area (about 30 miles south of me) offered $300 below. Then I got a mysterious set of e-mails from the internet manager at McDavid. One said MSRP and that they had the car in stock, then a few minutes later I got a second messages saying $18,310 (EX Coupe AT) and that they had the car in stock. So I e-mailed her back and said we'd be interested. A few hours later I drove to the dealer to check their stock and they did not have the car at all. It was pure bait and switch. I spoke to the Internet Manager there and she claimed they sold the car. This was BS since I checked in person just hours after the message and the dealership was closed at the time. She seemed pretty shifty based on previous e-mails and I really didn't trust her... so I wrote off David McDavid. I will give feedback to Edmunds.com
Last night we drove to Clear Lake Honda, just a few miles from my house and spoke to their Internet Manager. He was very straight forward with us. We drove the coupe and we liked it. We sat down and reviewed the list of incoming cars. It seems the coupe is in much less demand than the Sedan. Just about all the sedans in their Nov allocation were already sold. Only one coupe was sold, and a few were on the lot but not in the options/color we wanted. Most of the incoming stock were EX's, only one LX. They would not have an LX coming in like we wanted until the end of Dec, and we couldn't wait that long. In the end we bought a Coupe EX, AT for $18,500 including Dest but before TTL. They also gave us $2,500 on a 9 year old VW golf which was actually a fair trade based on the research I did. I think the price of the car is fair considering the current market, and we were happy with the trade in. Clear Lake Honda also offers free loaners for all service over 2 hours and 3 free oil changes. It was the most enjoyable buying experience I've ever had. I think they were trying to sell a few more cars before the end of the month, and perhaps if we really tried harder we could have gotten them down a little. But for reasons I won't get into, we needed the car as soon as possible. In the end both parties were happy... no yelling and screaming, no threats of lawsuits... just like it should be. If I buy a Honda in the future I will go back here. If you live in the Houston Area give Clear Lake a shot. I can't post names of sales people, but look for a guy with the initials "AJ" :-) I will never again deal with David McDavid.
For those looking for Coupes.. I'd say the market is weakening already and you should be able to get a price similar if not better than we did. I must say the Coupe is a nice car (as well as the sedan). I can't believe how far Civics have come. It s far superior to my first Accord. Good luck and happy car shopping
So the up shot: hold that internet manager type's feet to the fire and get a car costing more at the "lower" price or what you say was the bait and switch price.
Year's ago, I had something similar happen to me with a new model year demonstator Toyota Landcruiser 1996 model. I made a deal for the EXACT car .
(VIN #'d to be exact, the contract was written up and signed by both sides.) Seems the car was "presold" to the point the VIN was now registered in the DMV system to a new owner.
They of course apologized profusely and offered to renegogiate for another vehicle at prevailing rates, plus a so called "discount". My impression was it was an honest mistake.
However, I had a contract, and if I had wanted to back out of it, the dealership would have gone to the mat on it. So I mentioned that my lawyer would take this "easy money case"... So I reminded them we had signed a contract for an exact NEW VIN number car. So what they did eventually wind up doing was to sell me another BRAND NEW one at the agreed upon demonstrator price.:) The price was thousands under invoice.
In the case of Civics that we can't keep in stock, that may well have been what had happened. I'm not defending that other store but what benefit would come from having a customer drive a great distance when there was no inventory?
I will always tell my customers..." I have ONE blue one and I can't hold it for you...call before you leave your house to make sure it's here.
I know I sure don't need a ticked off customer driving in for a car I don't have?
"Bait and Switch"...Switch to WHAT? I don't have Civis to switch them to!
I just wish people would follow my advise...Ask your friends, neighbors and co-workers for a REFERRAL! Heck, if you see a new Honda in the Costco parking lot, ask the owner where he/she bought it and ask if they would refer their salesperson!
I wouldn't want to do it if it is "under the table." I would want the manager to also know. Even if no one else knows God still does. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." It would come back to haunt me if I did something wrong.
But looking at it from a "tip" standpoint may "work." I will ask around and see. The reason that I asked on this board first is I don't want any paranoid person in my area thinking that I am "pulling a fast one."
I would like to pay under invoice or around there for a red coupe in Jan. I made a huge mistake months back and told salesmen I was going to pay cash. This time I will ask to get the numbers in writing before I tell them. They want to sell you financing so if you mention cash you don't get the best deal. This is my experience thus far. But who knows?
The salesperson may get paid the same but isn't it true, the dealership makes more when the vehicle is financed by purchasing the loan and reselling it to the individual??? If it was a non-issue why would the salesperson ask "How are you paying for this.", within the first ten minutes they speak with you?