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Comments
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_passvans.htm
Actually, neither the Odyssey (1999) nor the Sienna (1998) tested was equipped with side airbags as they were not available in those years.
It is interesting that the 2002 Chrysler vans get a better rating when equipped with side airbags ("Acceptable" with, "Marginal" without). I would suspect side airbags offer little protection in a frontal/frontal offset crash if they even deploy at all. Perhaps the Chrysler vans were so close to an "Acceptable" rating, the IIHS felt the added side airbags would be enough to appease Chrysler...
Also, the IIHS ratings for bumpers and head restraints DO NOT factor into the overall Offset crash test evaluation. Those tests will, however, affect the ranking in the list compared to other vehicles with the same overall rating. According to the IIHS:
"The three factors evaluated in the frontal offset crash test -- structural performance, injury measures, and restraints/dummy kinematics -- determine each vehicle's overall crashworthiness evaluation. The order in which vehicles are listed depends primarily on crash test performance, with head restraint and bumper evaluations influencing the rankings of vehicles with similar performance."
Even so, Sedona did make the list above MPV and the Chrysler vans, so apparently the bumper and head restraint tests didn't factor at all in this case.
Overall, Sedona is a safe package, with good crash tests. Plus, extra weight is always a bonus in crashes with other vehicles. Side airbags, traction control, a head restraint and shoulder belt in the center rear position and a low rollover risk would round it out nicely for next year. Kudos to Kia for doing a better job with a brand new product than some other companies have been able to do over many generations of minivans.
"Thank you for your inquiry! We have several Sedonas in stock and available. However, the ABS option is still very hard to come by.... How important ids that option? Let me know, I will make you a deal you cannot turn down......"
So, how important are ABS? I did not have them in my '00 Cherokee and had no problems, but the Sedona will be for my wife and one year old.
I guess it matters what kind of deal is involved, but I was just wondering if I should even consider it.
As far as the bumper-basher in relation to the weight of the vehicle - it means nothing in the tests but is important only in the "real world." When these insurance tests are done, the vehicle is stationary while the "bumper-basher" moves into the vehicle. One reason for this is that the speed of the basher can be controlled much more exactly than the speed of the vehicle itself.
Guess I was wrong about side airbags. Like the negative comments on the Sedona's bumper tests added to the offset crash summary, comments on side airbags for the Odyssey etc. are apparently made for reference only and don't apply to the actual test. The fact that the Sedona received 5 stars in NHTSA side impact without them is actually a very good sign.
It appears that the main reason the Sedona did not receive a "good" in the offset is dummy head movement - it's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag (although not with great force) and the side pillar on the rebound. In many or most frontal impacts, the driver would presumably be aware it is about to happen, and have a split second to brace himself, which might limit head movement more than in the test. This probably should be less of a concern than having your feet and/or legs crushed by intrusion into the footwell - which seems to be a common problem for the vans rated lower than the Sedona.
Crash test data is important to me. I am pretty confidant in my own ability to drive safely but you never know what the person next to you will do. I currently drive a VW Passatt which has one of the best ratings for crash tests.
And, how many times are you going to have the time to brace yourself when the driver in the opposite lane weaves at the last minute and it results in an offset crash?
Anyway, I agree that being in 4th place, behind the Sienna, WindStar and Odyssey is pretty darn good!
I would hate to drive a ......... read the list of the vans on the bottom.
... Greg :-)
Whether it is 2k or 5k to fix up a car after an accident, as long as I pay my $500 deductible and the insurance pads the rest. I don't care, If Kia fixes the airbag deployment problem so it won't injure my face, it is good enough for me.
All the immediate PR "anomaly" B.S. after the bumper test is a premature reaction from Kia side, it may take a while to recreate the bumper test environment in the lab, to assign the appropriate engineers to investigate and to fix this problem takes time. Let's wait for another month and see what happen.
These tests are long established and well known by manufacturers. If they can't design their vehicles to get at least "Acceptable" or 4-star ratings in these tests, then I don't trust that they have put any effort to safe design in the many other possible crash scenarios that are not well simulated by any tests...
With quadruple 5-star ratings, an "Acceptable" IIHS rating and weighing in over 4500 lbs., I think Sedona is a much safer choice than many other vehicles on the road.
This is a real world offset head on crash and I faired well. The 94 Wrangler, same as the 92 got a 2 star rating for driver at NHTSA and no IIHS test was ever done on it. To summarize, there are so many variables in a real world crash that IMO can't be generated or even resemble the IIHS tests. They use the same standard of testing for all vehicles which tells us that in that exact scenario, that is the outcome. Your real world outcome may differ?
It was new year's day 2000 and my mom who is a nurse was driving to work at 5:30 am. She was on the freeway on an overpass to another freeway. All of a sudden ascending the top she sees headlights and boom. A drunk driver with a stolen van and no license hits my mom head on. She got really banged up and taken to the hospital but nothing major. She was wearing a seatbelt but no airbag in her older Ford Escort.
These are my 2 real world experiences and both have a good outcome as far as not being seriusly injured. People have been killed or seriously injured in "smaller" accidents and not head on ones but we have been fine and also not driving the "safest rated cars" on the road. Crash ratings are either good or bad PR but I still don't believe they reflect real world crashes. I think they are more fluff than substances but I won't tell my wife that. She is the exact opposite. She wanted the Sedona for the NHTSA quad 5 star rating among other things.
My dad used to refuse to wear his seat belt because "if there's a fire in the car, I might not be able to get out". Got tired of arguing with him, asked him to increase his life insurance, and agreed that, in the event of a fire after an accident, if unbelted he could always escape through the huge hole his head had made in the windshield.
I know for a fact that some vehicles perform better than others in some of the most common types of crashes simulated by the NHTSA and IIHS. I'd much rather have my family in one of those vehicles. Otherwise, I'd be assuming a manufactuer that couldn't even make a vehicle do well in these established tests has instead spent time and money making the car safer in other types of crashes (which don't even give them a marketing edge). Call me cynical, but I won't be making that assumption.
Ody01-
The IIHS assigns an overall rating for a reason. I suggest you read up on how they derive their overall rating and what the results mean. Then notice that they also link to the complementary NHTSA tests. Giving credit where credit is due, Sedona does quite well overall for crashworthiness. Maybe not quite as well as Sienna, Odyssey or Windstar, but it's probably among more crashworthy vehicles on the road today.
As a side note, I don't know how many times I've heard or read the following type of anecdote:
"We were in a crash with our monster SUV and it rolled. We were so lucky I only had a broken arm and my kids only had some bruises. It protected us so well we're going to buy another one today!"
It's very easy to let emotion and personal experience make this decision, even though the reality is that a safer vehicle might have avoided the crash to start, probably wouldn't have rolled and most likely wouldn't have caused any injuries at all in the same situation.
Just my 2 cents. Obviously, everyone has to interpret all the available information in their own way.
I'm a single mom who doesn't know much about cars but I know my 99 Caravan was a much superior vehicle. Did I get a lemon? Does anyone else have these problems?
I always enjoy the "smart people only do this/that..." mentality of some people. It's quite telling.
/j
Marian115:
Sorry you're having such tough problems. While the initial flush of excitement has faded, and I've found a few things I don't like about my Sedona, I haven't had any of the problems you describe. I'm at three months and 3K miles. As a matter of fact, the low wind noise, tranny, and braking are outstanding. Doors are smooth and obedient to me and 7 year old alike. I do notice it takes a while to heat up, but after 10 minutes running, I put the front and rear heaters on full, and it's 80 degrees in a minute. Are you turning on the rear heater, and not just the rear fan? Oh, and come to think of it, I did notice that the tank never gets up to "full".
I think you need to bring yours back to the dealer and have a chat, and accompanied test drive, with the service manager.
Also, I had a tranny leak fixed last week. My Sedona is only a month old. My van was also downshifting weird before this. The dealer was very helpful and fixed it quickly.
About tranny downshifting. It is normal on uphill grades. It's the nature of a 5 spd auto. It should not occur on flat roads unless you apply more throttle, which is normal. I don't know if the Sedona has a kick down adjuster, but my Ram 1500 does and once fine tuned it helped tremendously on not downshifting as much as when I bought it new. It was out of adjustment from the factory. Might be something to ask the KIA service dept. about? Are you getting it on a flat road without applying too much throttle or steady throttle?
How come I don't have your problems and your problems sound very generic?
Problems of no problems or just user feelings.
Ody01, You sounded more like a Japanese camouflaged in a western name.
bb8
I've gotten so used to using seat belts over the years, that I can close the door, put my seat belt on, put the key in the ignition, and start the car......... all in one motion.
Saving your life doesn't take ANY TIME AT ALL!! :-)
------
You'll notice that the IIHS report mentioned the Sedona having up-to-date seat belts in the front with the "pre-tensioners", which helps a lot when it comes to injuries.
... Greg :-)
To be honest, they are kind of crude and actually invalidate the area for storage - not a good place for anything which warps or dries out when heated.
[It's probably time to repost this for newcomers: an ample discussion on pricing and perspectives therein can be found in the 660 +/- 30 messages range.]
P.S. Am I missing something, or is there no intra-board search function? Would be really useful.
I also reviewed the TransPort results...I think they lost the dummy in that one since it looked unlikely that the dummy could be extracted from the vehicle. For comparison, that's a result that impacts a buying decision.
I have nt vibrations to speak of and wind noise? What wind noise? I have handed out nearly ten business cards from my dealer to people asking about my fully loaded my 2-tone Sapphire Blue, and at the same time I have only seen ONE other on the road. The only complaint I have is that my defroster heat output is marginal, and that I will have checked out on my first service. It's really a joy to drive, I am very pleased because in fact I practically live in this thing...ONE SATISFIED OWNER
And what's an old SF guy have to say to ody01?
Hey, you were right; the trailer hitch was a breeze, really. My seven year old daughter even crawled under the car with me, and turned a couple wrenches. A real bonding moment, let me tell you. My little gearhead.
Have you tried turning the dome light master on (left of the radio), then punching all the individual rear dome lights to turn them on, then using the master to turn them on or off? You have to turn them on at the light itself, then you can be Der Meisterswitcher from the cockpit.
It would be nice if Kia could put the circuits in that would activate them on door opening, even regardless of the front switch. Anyway, an enhancement for another year.
Marian115, last night my wife was coming home from work at midnight and she could not close the drivers side door. She had to drive for fifteen minutes in freezing cold weather holding the door closed. Maybe there is an issue with the latches in cold weather, but that was the first time it happened.
Its a Dark Emeral Green/ Silky Beige with leather & sunroof. Also came with a cargo net, but no rear mat..Do all EX's have the cargo net as standard equipement?
We now have 8200 miles and two trips to Florida from Va. It rides and drives very well crusing at 70 to 75 mph. Last trip I checked milage and got 24 to 25 mpg. Have found no real probblems so far, althrough at times I notice a very slight shudder thru the steering wheel when the transmission shifts from 3th to 4 th gear. Thanks to this townhall I've learned how to operate the rear heater and the location of the rear heat vents. The heater puts out very hot air. I plan on buying the service manuals for the Sedona so I can learn even more about my van. I usally buy them anytime I get a new vehicle
As for the air bag deployment - if we address Kia with the issue and ask them to do something about it I believe we will have a better likelihood of getting the issue addressed and corrected (if there is an issue) than if we just speculate about it. My wife is concerned about it, so I asked her to write the company. I think that Kia is concerned with establishing itself with a solid base of customers in the US market, and feel that because of this they may be more responsive than other companies. Write them!
The quadruple 5-star NHTSA results, Acceptable rating from IIHS, and the vehicle's significant weight (much heavier than most minivans) combine to make this one of the safest minivans you can buy, at least from a crash-test performance viewpoint. The poor bumper-test performance is disappointing, but it's far less important than the other test results.
You could make the argument that Sedona is less maneuverable than other minivans such as Villager/Quest and MPV, so perhaps those vans are better able to avoid accidents.
..."the Sedona is a winner.'
Dont know if this was posted already.. more press.