Kia Sedona (2005 and Earlier)

kczmudzin

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020313/ts_nm/autos_bumpers_dc_1016032252&cid=578

hoyahenry

They actually had the video of the bumper tests on CNN Headline News. The airbag deployment is a major problem. I would expect a recall, sooner than later.

bb8

``They are running these cars into a 325,000-pound concrete barrier with about 3 inches of steel on the front of it,'' said Kia spokesman Geno Effler. ``It's not reflective of the real world at all.''
Effler said Kia engineers examined the test results and determined the air bag deployment was an anomaly.

My thought regarding the Kia's responding statement of bumper test:

Dump immediate denial: Real world or not, it is the conditions and the parameters that the institutions in USA based upon and applicable to all car manufacturers, a flat out denial implies that obviously, these test conditions had never been a test case in their vehicular simulation system when they designed the Sedona, hopefully, it is now, besides that the fix may not be a costly fix, it may be a program updated in the Micro-controller that monitors the combination of electronic accelerometer's current and history statuses and a few other input conditions that triggers the events of airbag deployment.

I would like to hear what is the fix from Kia rather it was an anomaly.

tm4419

I was considering buying a new Sedona but got to thinking about the axis of evil which North Korea is part of. South Korea is a good ally of the U S and if push comes to shove there is a good possibility of another Korean war. I feel that if this were to happen [god forbid] Kia would be history and getting parts would be next to impossible. I bought a new Dodge Caravan with the 100000 powertrain pledge and am very happy with it so far. I am not trying to scare anybody but it is something to think about.

joylyn

You've been listening to Bush--axis of evil indeed. No car is made in the USA, or in any one country and I doubt, even with a war (like that is going to happen, I think not) that Kia would disappear. For me, I'm thinking about Blue vs Black, and do I really need a sun roof.

tm4419

I too hope a war never happens. My Caravan window sticker says 88% of the parts are made in the USA or Canada. The 2.4 litre engine is made in Mexico.
I still think that if we were to have a major war I would have a much better chance of getting parts than I would for a Korean vehicle.
I also feel that in this time of economic recession I want to do what I can to help the economy and the American worker and buying an american made vehicle is a good way to help.

joylyn

We are going to buy a new Sedona soon, end of this week. I am taking bids now. We have two children, ages 3 and 7, both in belt positioning booster seats. What do I need to know (other than they dont' ride in front, of course) about the best seating arrangement for them and their booster seats? I'd also love to hear anything else about the van. I'm very excited, this will be my first NEW car and my first van.

laurelaggie

I have both of my children in the middle row. Are you getting bench seat or captains chairs? I have the bench and I find that seat belts in the middle row hit my 5 year old better than the ones in the last row. She could almost ride without a booster in the middle if weight wasn't an issue. (She's not even 40 lbs.) My other child is still an infant and she rides rear facing. The only problems I foresee with the middle row is that they sit right next to each other. This could get interesting in the next year or so.

philliplc

Kia's response to the IIHS bumper tests, which were given a pretty grave treatment in a Dateline feature tonight, is posted at MSNBC's site -

http://www.msnbc.com/news/722900.asp

The IIHS offset crash test results on the Sedona will apparently be released within a week.

gregoriusm

What do you all think of that little "pull out" box on the second page of the review.

They implied that for most of the points they mentioned that it was poor technology that mandated all of that extra weight, extra "steel".

I'd like your opinion, but if the current manufacturers can't meet all of the crash tests with 5 stars using their "up-to-date" technology, then why does Car and Driver seem to "poo-poo" the extra weight in the van?

- Greg

marcolius

I looked hard at Caravans, because I'd like to buy American, too. Just couldn't get the same features and feel as the Sedona, especially at the price. I'm not too worried about parts. If there's war in Korea, we'll have a lot of other things to fret over. And read your "pledge" carefully. It's one of the things that led me AWAY from Diamler Chrysler.

1badhippie

Their test of the Sedona was no doubt performed several months ago. The NHTSA data regarding the crash test results was posted on 2/26 per their Web site. So, even though it would seem that a stronger structure would lead to better crash-worthiness, I guess C&D didn't want to prematurely speculate on the results.

From the looks of the pic of the van, the components do not strike me as "poor quality." They look rather substantial; and hey, if it lowers the cost of the vehicle, so be it.

Chris

momx2

I WAS a Dodge owner, but after many problems, to include blown head gasket, and major suspension problems, (just to name a few). At this point, I would not take one if it was given to me. As for the 7 year, 100,000 mile warranty, trust me you will need it. Luckily, I purchased a extended warranty when I purchased the car. I could have easily socked $4,000 to $4,500 in repairs immediately after the 3 year warranty expired. The car is history and hopefully it was junked and retired to the "big parking lot in the sky".
I plan to purchase a Kia in May. I myself cannot make a decision based on a remote "what if". If there ever is a time that parts are difficult to obtain, I will deal with the situation IF and when it arises.

marcolius

The 7 year, 100,000 mile thing is a "pledge", NOT a warranty. The weasels are trying to use semantics to fool people. There is a significant deductible for each repair, whether it's a covered defect or not.

momx2

A deductible for a pledge? What kind of word play is that? It sounds more like a guaranteed stream of money. They can keep their pledge and their van too. How deceitful!! Shame shame on D.C.!!!!

marcolius

Check out the Dodge website. If you find the PowerTrain Pledge icon, and click on it, then on the "Great Protection" icon, you can find the teeny-tiny fine print at the bottom. The "pledge" covers parts and labor for all repairs of covered components found to be defective, minus a $100 deductible PER VISIT. NOT per COMPONENT. So, if it takes the dealer three visits to correct a problem (Gee, has that ever happened to anybody here?), you're still out three hundred bucks. Plus, this is a limited offer and only good 'til April 2nd. (Getting the "pledge", not the "pledge" itself, of course.) The only thing I would say in their favor is that it looks as if the covered components are pretty comprehensive. It's not like "engine and transmission are excluded from coverage" is in tiny print at the bottom, too.

Shame and deceit are two of the words that sprang immediately to my mind, too, momx2.

tm4419

I too thought that the sedona would be a better deal than the caravan until I started shopping the Chicago dealerships. I bought a new 2002 caravan with 7 passenger seating, rear defrost. aotomatic trans, air conditioning, excellent stereo system and a lot of other features. It is rated at 19mpg city anf 27mpg highway mileage. I bought at elmhurst Dodge and paid $14,398 but also got a $300 rebate because I have a CDL drivers license. This brought the price down to $14,100. The van is the best driving van I have ever driven and a pleasure to drive. I owned a 1993 voyager which I bought new and had no major problems for 69000 miles. At that time the tranny went out but was covered by a 70000 mile power trane warranty.
If not for the 100000 mile powertrane pledge I would not have bought this caravan but with it I can drive it like I stole it and not have to worry about an expensive transmission repair.
The $100 deductible is a mere pittance to pay for any major repair and the service manager assured me that if it wasn't fixed right the first time there would be no additional charge if I had to take it back. Also it is covered for the first 36000 miles or three years with the full warranty and then the 100000 pledge takes effect.
From what I read about the Sedona they are having transmission problems and many other problems as well. Lets keep America strong and buy American made vehicles instead of sending money overseas.
I have been told that he powertrain pledge was extended to April 30th and I have no doubt that they will continue it until the economy is booming again.

stever

That's a pretty amazing price for a new van (I won't inquire whether it was made by a German company in Ontario).

Anyone got any Sedona news?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tm4419

The sticker on the door pillar says it was made in the USA. From what I understand some are made in Canada and some in Missouri. It seems that every year there is one dealer in the Chicago area selling DC vans at very low prices. They must get some good factory incentives. It pays to watch the ads in the Sun Times and do your shopping by phone to check availability and sale date.

laurelaggie

Did you buy a Caravan or a Grand Caravan? I will agree that you can get a Caravan for less than a Sedona, but most Caravans are missing one important feature: rear air. I live in GA and rear air is a neccessity. My neighbor has a Caravan and she wishes all summer long that she had gotten rear air. The only way I could get rear air from my Dodge dealer here in GA would be to buy a Grand Caravan, which cost more than my Sedona LX.

joylyn

Thanks for your reply. My 7 year old liked the rear seat, for a number of reasons. Any ideas on what I can say to her to convince her she needs to be in the middle seats? We will have capt chairs for the middle row. My 7 year old loves to read and believes (as do I) that she could read at night in the back row without the light bothering me.

tm4419

It is a standard Caravan with no rear seat AC.
The heater is strong and I am told that the AC is more than adequate.

claywaterfill

As a former Sephia owner, I was very interested in buying a Sedona. But, they were not out when we needed to buy last spring, so we bought a Voyager. The IIHS tests aside, I still like the Sedona. But, I am very glad I bought the Voyager. It does not have rear air. I, too, live in Georgia. The Voyager/Caravan has three large vents in the middle of the dash pushing a ton of air to the back. I did not get one single complaint last summer--and believe me, my kids would have complained! I do agree that the Powertrain Pledge is a little shaky, though. You are not doing yourself any favors if you do not compare the Voyager or Caravan to the Sedona. With rebates and discounts, you can get a Voyager stickering over 23 grand for under 20--or right where a Sedona starts. I'm glad you Sedona owners are happy--let's hope it keeps up for many years to come.

marcolius

a) Congratulations on a great price on your Caravan.
b) Again, read your "warranty" carefully. It states specifically that dealers or other parties cannot alter or change its provisions. If you bring it back to the guy you bought it from and he waives the 100 bucks, great; his word won't cut it at another shop, though.
c) Again, and again: read your "warranty" carefully. The 100,000/7 year begins when the van leaves the factory, and doesn't kick in only after the 36,000/3 year expires. Looks to me like what's covered in the 100K/7 year may NOT be covered by the 36K/3 year. At the very least the wording is ambiguous.
d) Where have you been reading about Sedona transmission problems? Not here. Not in any publications or sites I follow, and I've followed a lot, having bought a newly-introduced car.
e) I've never said this to another poster, but hey, how about heading on over to the Dodge board? This is an informational board for Kia owners and potential buyers. It's not the appropriate forum for you to congratulate yourself on your savvy purchase, bad-mouth our cars, or harangue us about buying American.

Steve, am I out of line with that observation? If so, I apologize, but I sense an agenda here that's heading away from productive discourse.

marcolius

That's the spirit! Thanks for your even and balanced observations, and your good wishes. I, too, hope you have many years of good service and safety from your car.

stever

No, you aren't out of line with your observation, marcolius. Veering from the stated topic is normal and tolerated to some extent, but this isn't a comparision topic, nor are people coming here to learn about Dodge offerings. We also have domestic vs. foreign discussions going on in News and Views to handle that issue.

So, I'll ask again, anyone got any Sedona news?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tm4419

Sorry if I harangued you. You are right I am in the wrong area. This is my first experience at town hall and I guess I was too enthusiastic.
For reports of transmission problems see numbers 724 766 1032 1120 1132 and 1139 in this discussion. I hope you have good luck with your sedona with years of enjoyment.

marcolius

Yeah, I suppose that in this small sample size, just a few transmission problems can be significant, though I think that three of the messages cited refer to the same incident. I'm watching carefully, to be sure. I'm particularly interested in how Kia and its dealers handle problems as they arise. The air bag deploying in a 5 mph crash, for instance, is worrisome.

akwilliams

Has anyone contacted Kia about the air bag issue? This is one rap a wanna be contender does not need. I hope Kia, as one person has suggested, recalls these vans and makes a change. Don't get me wrong, I sleep much better at night knowing my wife and kids are riding in a 4700 lb 5 star crash test rated vehicle. But, I'm not crazy about the air bags going off in my wife's face over a minor collision.

bluedevils

I can't stand when people come to the wrong board and try to annoy us by talking about how much better their vehicle is than ours. I don't think you did that.

That said, you definitely will get more feedback with your Caravan questions/comments if you post them on the Caravan board, and not here.

Don't feel bad about posting here. You weren't out of line, just slightly off topic.

bluedevils

I don't remember reading about any reports of tranny problems on this entire 1183-post topic. Am I forgetting something?

bluedevils

So many things have changed, and the lines have become so fuzzy, that I think most people have probably lost sight of what exactly they are arguing for and against when they enter this debate.

I just wish the "Buy American" folks were consistent in their message. I.e., don't buy Japanese or Korean electronics, or foreign-made clothes (almost ALL clothes are made outside the U.S.), or...

Sorry, couldn't resist my $.02 on this one. I probably won't get many dissenting opinions from the folks on *this* board, though, since most of us are Kia owners or prospective owners.

hoyahenry

Kia engineers believe the vibrations were peculiar to this test, and that they do reflect a real-world collision...They concluded that the airbag deployment was an anomaly related to the peculiarities of the test environment, a peculiarity similar to what Volvo engineers discovered when airbags deployed in a 5-mph IIHS test of a 2000 Volvo S80. It’s our understanding that Volvo has had no real-world reports of low-speed airbag deployments, and neither have we.

Similar to the Volvo experience or no, my personal opinion is that they better shoot some video of some real world tests conducted at their facility toute de suite showing no air bag deployments. Otherwise, which fuse is that? I would prefer not to be injured by the air bag in a 5mph fender bender.... We may have to have a frank lesson in actions v. words with Kia of America.

hoyahenry

Concerning the global world economy and wars, there has been a risk in that part of the world for more than the last 50 years and there always will be. I do not see it as being any more prescient based upon recent events. In fact, I see it as somewhat less likely in the current circumstances. There is no comparison between Yugoslavia and South Korea either. (North Korea is a valid comparison on the other hand, but irrelevant.)

Oh, and lest I disappoint a former professor and dean who was an expert in law of the sea and power projection (ie, an aircraft carrier battle group or 2), it's not like NK is going to have one minute of sea superiority should they miscalculate the current balance of power and decide to do something that might disrupt a sea lane.

Bottom line is that there are far better reasons not to buy a Kia. Of course, none of them are particularly overwhelming either, imho.

excelent3

Excellent verbage if I do say so myself. Fact is: the Sedona is grabbing alot of sales from Dodge is it not?

I also wish to comment on the supreme ride quality the Sedona has, very solid feel. I hope it retains this factor as the miles increase.

bb8

Kia could have learned something from Mitsubishi after the bumper tests, captured the resulted data, go home study and make improvements.

Kia revealed that the Airbag system was similar to Volvo, since Volvo is world best in safety technology, Volvo S80 could do no wrong so did Kia Sedona in low speed collision. Now I finally sense that the Sedona's safety system is licensed from Volvo, I pondered if the Kia engineers really knew what were they talking about, if the vibration patterns are peculiar, if they did have capture the vibration patterns, it should be easily identified by the system and performs the corrective action of no airbag deployment. The Kia engineers didn't understand what they didn't understand, and the safety S/W is a mere copy from Volvo, hiding under Volvo's skirt is not very bright but a way out. Wrong PR plus no formal acknowledgment of improvement can sink a product.

lauren4521

Hi...well, JUST finished about 2 days of reading all the posts..whew.

My husband and I stumbled on the Sedona after seeing a commercial quoting the 5-star rating.

So far in our research we've decided on the Ody, then the MPV and now the Sedona. We, too were a bit concerned with the quality/reliability issues considering Kia's history. This board has made me feel a bit better on that front! Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge and experiences.

We're going for the test drive this weekend and pretty much already decided that we're going with an EX with ABS, two tone (not picky about colors at this point). Hopefully our extensive online pricing research (carbuyingtips.com for one)will get us a decent price with Kia Fleet managers.

Will keep you posted on our adventure!
Lauren

annam1

I just got off the phone with a Kia customer service rep and she repeated nearly word for word what hoyahenry's post #1185 stated - the damaged bumper was sending a vibration to the computer that the vehicle was experiencing a high speed impact, thus releasing the airbag. She stated that this is not a safety issue. Ha! Tell that to anyone who has ever been injured by the deployment of an airbag. I personally have known two such people. She also stated that there were no passengers in the Sedona, implying it was not a "real world" scenario. At this time,they have no plans for a recall, however, they are sending a letter to Kia Sedona owners regarding this incident. IIHS tested four Sedonas, this happened to only one of them. They will continue to test and monitor accident data to determine if any changes should be made. She stated that although the same result occurred to the volvo tested several years ago by IIHS, it has not been reproduced in real world driving conditions.

Does anyone know if there is a way we driver/owners could get access to accident data regarding the Sedona?

Take a deep breath everyone and don't panic...yet.

bluedevils

annam1, are you sure about that? Did they run each test 4 times? How-- did they run all 4 tests on all 4 vans? I don't see how they could have done that. Once you bang up the front, how can you run a different test on the already-damaged front end? Or did they have 16 vans and run one test per van? Or...?

If the test WAS run on 4 vans and the problem occurred only once, that does make me feel a little better. But this still concerns me, as I still see it as a safety issue, and I hope Kia addresses it rather than continuing to deny it.

bluedevils

Not in my opinion. It's definitely bad, and it bothers me, but I don't think it's anywhere near bad enough to do significant damage to Sedona sales.

bb8 your point is valid, generally speaking. But I don't think it will apply in this case.

wberndt

The Sedona LX comes with a bench seat in the middle row that has two little headrests. They are shaped at a right-angle so that, when they are slid all the way down, they are almost flush with the seat-back. I swapped them with the full sized headrests in the back (third row) seats and pushed them all the way down. Now I have a much better view out the rear and the flip-and-fold rear seats will work without removing the headrests. Also, since the middle row passengers are more likely to be adults and the third row children, it made sense to give the adults the better head rests.

annam1

Bluedevils, if I understood the rep correctly, it was four Sedonas tested, and only one of them deployed the airbag. Perhaps that is why they are calling it an "anomaly". But I don't like Kia's viewpoint that this is not a safety issue. Getting hit in the face or chest with the explosive force of the airbag can cause real damage to a body.

Apparently, this type of low mph airbag deployment also occurred in several other cars tested but I can't remember which vehicles they were. I would be interested in what the other manufacturers had to say about this and what, if anything, was done about it. Does anyone have any more information on this subject?

bb8

"They will continue to test and monitor accident data to determine if any changes should be made."

That's What I want to hear...Thanks!!!!

gregoriusm

From what I've read, they tested 4 Sedonas, but not 4 on EACH test.

There are 4 tests. One straight on - flat surface - front bumper; one angled front bumper; one straight on - flat surface - rear bumper; and one rear bumper into a pole, all at 5 mph.

But I do agree with what bb8 said:

"They will continue to test and monitor accident data to determine if any changes should be made."

That's What I want to hear...Thanks!!!!

... Greg

philliplc

My understanding is, to do the test, the IIHS purchases 4 of one model off lots, and crashes each of them once, each in a different 5 mph test (front into flat barrier, front into angled barrier, rear into flat, and rear into pole). They then estimate the dollar amount to repair the damage sustained in each test. The airbags deployed on the Sedona that had the front into flat test, but not in the other tests.

It should be noted that few current models handle these tests very well. To the Odyssey's credit, it was one of the best "heavy" passenger vehicles yet tested, sustaining comparatively minimal damage in all 4 tests. Some other big SUVs, however, with similar weight to the Sedona did almost as poorly.

The only other recent model I've heard mentioned on which the airbags deployed during the tests was a Volvo.

hoyahenry

Just a follow up. I am not experiencing torque steer, but I did determine three things that may be of interest:

1) Tire pressure is extremely sensitive. I had 36 in the right front and 35 in the left front at 60 degrees ambient air temp(cold). The minor adjustment eliminated the leftward pull, except for...

2) Left lane driving. The crown in the road combined with (my hypothesis) the weight of the vehicle gives it a leftward pull again. I believe this is fairly normal.

3) Accelerating rapidly (40-50-60 mph) in the middle lane of a flat road with hands off did not cause a leftward pull.

mom23girls

I've been away for awhile and it's taken me sometime to catch up on the posts. Some very interesting talk happening here.
My Sapphire Blue EX has 6000 miles and no real problems that I'm aware of. The grinding sound upon break application stopped on it's own. Maybe they were damp after all. My family still loves it.
In reference to the true color of the green Sedonas, it looks more like a "forest green" to me. It's nice looking with tan and as long as you're not expecting "Emerald Green" it's not disappointing.
My .02 with the American vs. Foreign, there are alot of American products I can buy with the big bucks saved, including a trip to Disney for the whole family this Christmas.
I did have a HUGE SCARE and the back headrests atleast are going! I was backing out of a parking space at WallyWorld, and almost ran over a woman and her little boy in a cart next to me. It scared me to death cause I thought I had really looked. I guarantee I will be even more diligent in the future.
Thanks to all of you info. hawkers out there, keep us informed on this front airbag deployment.

gregoriusm

Perhaps you'd want to have one of the after-market "backup indicators" installed on your van. I plan on doing that with mine.

Apparently they work really well when they are calibrated properly, allowing you to know if anything is behind you from 6 feet and closer.

The brand name may have been discussed earlier, but I can get the website for a popular brand for you if you would like.

... Greg

jondot

In a earlier post (1141), I noted the torque steer seems to have gone away! All I did was rotate all five tires --crossed the rear to the front, rt front to spare and spare to rt rear. There is a slight pull RIGHT now but only on heavy acceleration and it only last for an instant; also, even that doesn't happen all the time. Figure that!! Tire wear is minimal at 10,000 miles; all tires measured 9/32s tread depth. Tread wear is even on all tires. All else is well with my EX, but I'm going to avoid hitting poles!

jlngwr

Please post that website for back up warning. I've had the same problem as mom23 almost as soon as I bought the van in August and ditched the headrests right away in the back seat. Much better now, but sometimes...