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Comments
Maybe only certain parts of the country get 3rd row mats included. Or perhaps it's based on the manufacture date (earlier ones have it, newer ones don't-- or vice versa). Ours was built on 12/20/2001, I think. We bought it around 2/19/2002.
We probably should have looked for yet another dealer, but we were having a baby in November and with the lack of Sedonas in this area at that time we were afraid I was still going to be driving my Mustang when the baby came and we became a family of five... which wouldn't work in my car or his Chevy S10.
What's with this interchangeable mat logic ??? assuming you would never have people in both rows at the same time??? Oh well, we picked up some deep track front seat rubber mats and turned them sideways to fit over the existing carpet mats anyway (messy winters)for the middle row so we just got the same for the back.
Somebody mentioned passenger seat leg room. I am primarily the driver of our van but when I'm in the passenger seat at first I really noticed that I feel taller over there and there's no seat lowering option, but I have adjusted now and it doesn't bother me.
However, one other issue I have with the van regarding leg room is that we have an infant car seat with a base. In order to get the seat belt tight enough in the second row you have to scoot the seat quite a ways forward. Infant seats stick out in front of the seat quite a bit so then in order to get the seat into the base you have to scoot the passenger seat forward a lot. This meant in order to used our carseat with its base (which we purposely chose for its ease of click in click out - not having to deal with the seat belt every time) the passenger has their knees in the dash. The resolution was we had to quit using our base. This didn't make me happy. The reason we can't get the base tight enough with the middle seat back in a normal legroom position is because of that button like thing that is in the middle of the belt. If anybody has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.
What do you people do in your Sedona's?? - Greg
Also, there is a button on the shift lever that cancels out overdrive "around town" driving. This prevents the van from shifting into 5th gear and allows the engine to help slow it down when you take your foot off the gas.
.....
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BTW, am I the only one experiencing Torque steer???
The Honda is a great van and a safe purchase, but it's not perfect. Some of us "bargain" shoppers have better standard sound systems, standard fog lights (something I consider a safety feature), 3500lbs towing capacity with the required STANDARD factory-installed engine accessories for towing, and a better standard warranty. This bargain shopper also got a leather interior and a moonroof - all for less than the cost of an ODY LX -as someone compared it. (And one can't get factory leather in a Honda LX. No moonroofs in Odyland either.)
To anticipate counter-arguments, I got less engine power, but a vehicle that is better for towing. I did not get a magic seat, but the seating arrangements in my van are quite versatile nonetheless- enough to get myself and 4 coworkers to the airport (try that with the magic seat down). I got less total cargo volume, but enough to easily meet my needs - bunkbeds and mattresses from BJs were no problem. And I got other interesting standard goodies like window controls in the rear passenger compartment.
And the family just returned from 9 days at Steamboat Springs and I can still buy a boat and trailer with the $8K I didn't spend. It all comes down to value - to each his/her own - but I see no reason to preach the gospel of Honda the way some others do.
Your vehicle does not have that system, but the effect I think you are experiencing is driver adjustment. The best way to find out is to drive a similar vehicle in type and weight and see if you notice a difference.
Someone will no doubt point out that picking up drywall on a rainy day is a bad idea, but here's the scoop. With all four seats laid flat, there's over 48" of width to work with - enough for plywood and drywall. The length is about 1 foot short of 8 feet, so the trunk won't close. I didn't think 4' of width was available, so I was envisioning diagonally placed cargo if as and when I need it.
With the seats removed, this remains true, but there are some floor obstructions off of the rear saddle bags. My suggestion is to use 2 2x4s or 2x6s, 8' in length laid flat to overcome that - will also provide a smooth sliding surface for loading the cargo. Bungee the trunk down, and voila - off for home.
This may not impress anyone else, but I was pleasantly surprised.
Steve
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Thanks,
Dave Mak
BTW, I pull our original paper work on our Grand Voyager. We paid just as much three and a half years ago for a base Grand Voyager as we did for a loaded Kia.
1) I found that, with the headrests in the 3rd row bench seat,that much of my view out of the center, rear-view mirror was blocked as compared with the Ody or T&C. Any one else experience this? Despite the comments in various reviews that I've read, I found the acceleration in the Sedona impressive and the car, overall, to be a good value.
2) Anyone have comments (favorable/unfavorable) on dealers in the greater, Washington D.C. area? I didn't discuss price with the Sedona dealer, but judging from the number of cars on the lot, suspected their was some room for negotiation -- which, from reading this board, seems isn't necessarily the case in other parts of the country. I'd appreciate hearing what people have paid for a loaded EX in the D.C. area & whether my assumption re: possibility of negotiation in this part of this country is correct. Thanks.
Yes, 1 key fob. Did everyone get their full tank of gas with their purchase.You better get it while you are their, it right on the window sticker. I didn't yet, we picked up our sedona late that night out of town after faxing in a credit app. that was instanly approved. So they waited for us and claimed that the only 2 persons on the premisses didn't have access to pump and they would mail me a fuel voucher, which i haven't seen yet. We will see.
How about that radio, i think it has potential, but the speakers sound crappy, anyone made any changes yet.
2) Thanks to the person who told me about the 12" x 24" rubbermaid box for the "trunk". That makes me feel much better!
3) Torque steer. These days there should be minimal or no torque steer on a front wheel drive vehicle. When I test drove the Sedona, I wasn't looking for it, but will check it out next time I take one for a drive. VERY NOTICEABLE torque steer should be checked out by the dealer, for sure. - Greg
- 22.5k is a good target (median?) price for a loaded EX with ABS depending on dealer incentives (not the fin programs, but free oil changes, etc.) including dest charge. You are right, though, demand is growing and keep in mind that at least 1/2 of those on the lot were probably LX's.
Another thing taking up space in the back is the rear headrests. Took 'em off. Didn't like the rear view obstructed. I just pop 'em back on if I have rear seat passengers.
dkritz: Got my fully loaded EX at Sheehy in Springfield for just over 23,000. I'm sure you can do bettter but they had what I wanted, when I wanted it, and I was happy with the service department.
Ex3: you were right again, dude. The hitch itself was a 20-30 minute task. AFTER I found a 2 foot pipe to use as a breaker bar on my rachet to loosen those bumper/frame bolts. SHEESH. Just about ruptured all my shoulder ligaments yanking on the thing without the bar. Now, do I need to cover the new bolts holding on the hitch with rubber cement or paint or something to reduce their rust likelihood, since I've breached the rustproofing barrier? And hey, you were right about the "burnt rubber" smell I had for a couple months. Big blob of rustproofing on the tail pipe.
Oh, and I don't feel any torque steer on mine, either. And the Kia people tell me only one keyless remote, Kia "can't" make a second.
Mark
To me, how the dealer handles problems is more important than the vehicle having few problems to begin with. At some point, every vehicle will need warranty service. The difference between the dealer handling things promptly and correctly, and being unable/unwilling to resolve a concern, can be the difference between sanity and insanity for many owners.
I'm not sure that this will work with the car seat base, but I think it will...
A friend told me a couple months ago about a product called Mighty-Tite. It's a device you connect to the lap portion of the seatbelt. It ratchets the belt tighter and tighter until the car seat is snug enough for your liking. It works well and is quick and easy to use. I've bought 3 of them so far (2 for our vehicles and 1 for my mother-in-law). Our 9-month old is in the middle right seat of our Sedona EX. Her car seat is rear-facing. We are not using the base (she's not in those small, comes-with-a-base car seats any more), but I see no reason why Mighty-Tite wouldn't work with a base. You slide it onto the lap belt within a couple inches of the car seat, on the side opposite the seat belt buckle. Once it's on, the device wraps the belt around a metal cylinder as you push down the yellow ratchet-handle thing. It works quite well.
I've never been able to get car seats installed tight enough to be safe, until I heard about the Mighty-Tite. I've bought ours at Meijer (here in Michigan) for $17 or $18 each.
I just checked to see if www.mightytite.com is the correct web address, and it is. There's a link on the left side of the home page for where to buy Mighty Tite.
In the Sedona, our front seat must be moved forward a fair amount because the rear-facing seat in the middle row needs a fair amount of clearance. However, I think there's still enough room for someone under 6' to sit in the front passenger seat.
I hope this helps.
Alternatively, you could leave the headrests in and just fold the seats down, as mobilmac suggested.
In normal, good-traction driving, a non-ABS vehicle should exhibit the same braking performance as the same vehicle equipped with ABS.
As far as the brochure and colors...I own a Misty Blue EX, and I don't think it looks anything like the picture on the front cover (it's darker, and I've gotten several compliments on the color).
bluedevils...regarding your car seat...I was told not to put a rear facing car seat in the middle row (by the salesman). He suggested the third row (which is a pain). Did someone tell you the middle row was ok for a carseat?
All front-wheel drive vehicles torque-steer somewhat, as discussed exhaustively elsewhere above. Our Sedona exhibits very little torque-steer, even with the six adults we had in a recent load. I only notice it under hard acceleration (I love this engine)when one front wheel slips a bit and when accelerating while turning a sharp corner. Very minor. It should not occur under steady throttle. If the van pulls then, it is not torque steer.
Logically, the middle row seems a safer place than the 3rd row, for the reasons laurelaggie explained above.
It seems safe to say that in the case of the Sedona, Kia has started reliability and quality on the upswing. The fit and finish on this vehicle and overall build quality are nothing like the cheap, crappy small Kia sedans of a few years ago.
I do not see this as being a "problem" in most situations, but when you want to load up the family (incl. in-laws) for a trip to the beach, or a short trip out of town for a few days, it might be an issue. You don't really want to pull out the scales and weigh everyone and their luggage, but then again you don't want to compromise the handling or the safety of the vehicle.
Thoughts, anyone?
I guess this is CYA for the manufacturers, but I don't worry about it. If the vehicle feels like it has the same handling, braking, etc. characteristics and you are technically over the payload limit, I don't see what the problem is. Many vehicles have a practical safe payload that far exceeds the manufacturer's stated maximum, in my opinion.
Would this ever result in the manufacturer denying a warranty claim? I don't see how. I'm not sure what kind of items would realistically be damaged by exceeding the payload-- shocks, perhaps? Well, if you bring the vehicle to the dealer with bad shocks at 5k miles, how do they know if you have exceeded the payload max? Do vehicles come with a sensor and computer that registers this fact and stores the information (how much weight, how many miles, how many times, etc.)? I believe the answer to that is "no."
I'm not dismissing this concern simply because I own a Sedona and it has a wimpy specified payload. I just feel this way in general.
They defined resale value as a percentage of sticker price after 5 years. Here are some of their estimates for 2002 models. The Odyssey was by far the leader, and Sienna was firmly in second place. The rest of the vans spread out pretty gradually below those two models. Here are some of the numbers:
Honda Odyssey EX 46%
Honda Odyssey LX 47%
Toyota Sienna LE 42%
Toyota Sienna CE 40%
Kia Sedona EX 34%
Kia Sedona LX 33%
Chrysler Town & Country LX 36%
Chrysler Town & Country LX 34%
Chrysler Voyager 28%
Dodge Grand Caravan eX 31%
Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 30%
Chevy Venture LS 29%
Chevy Venture Value 27%
Dodge Caravan 26%
Ford Windstar 25%
Ford Windstar LX 29%
Mazda MPV ES 33%
Mazda MPV LX 33%
Mercury Villager Estate Plus 31%
Mercury Villager Plus 31%
Nissan Quest SE 36%
Nissan Quest GXE 35%
Olds Silhouette GL 30%
Pontiac Montana 1SA 31%
Pontiac Montana 1SV 30%
Other than Sienna and Odyssey, the vans were distributed between 25% and 36%. The Sedona's predicted resale value is actually better than most of its competitors. It bested most of the American models, some (Windstar, Venture/Silhouette, most DCX vans) by a significant margin. Granted, the Sedona numbers are more estimate than fact-based since the van is so new, but the numbers are still encouraging.
When you consider actual market price instead of MSRP, some vans' numbers will get better and some will get worse. Comparatively, the Odyssey gets worse than others that are sold below MSRP because Ody typically goes for MSRP or more.
I was optimistic about Sedona's resale value, and this article confirms that my assumptions might be valid.
I assume Car & Driver (C&D) got the payload numbers from Kia (maybe a press kit?). Edmunds lists it as 1186 lbs., so the numbers are close.
C&D gave the Sedona a fairly positive review...one of the few minor "gripes" they had dealt with the weight of the van. They were impressed with the "astute feel of the controls," specifically mentioning the steering and braking. "Kia hasn't overtaken Chrysler for carlike driving dynamics yet, but it's looming in the Voyager/Caravan's rear view mirror" they say.
The 0-60 mph time was clocked at 9.6 seconds...not too bad.
One of the minor gripes that I had about their review concerns their reference to none of the seats rolling on wheels or rails (just "heavy and awkward cargo" when not being used as seats). However, the brochure indicates the rear seats do roll on wheels when removed, and I was sure that I have read that the middle and rear seats to adjust fore and aft to improve leg room & comfort. Maybe their test model had different equipment...?
In the Counterpoint section, one of the writers wonders why it should matter how the van drives, seeing as how Kia has taken so long to introduce a minivan that is four years old into a segment for which the "party is over" (referencing a soft minivan market and the various rebates from the other brands), and is outclassed by most of the competition. Ummmm...that is why I read the *&^% magazine...it IS called Car and DRIVER, after all. Besides, the minivan market is not the only segment that has "gone soft."
Other segments have gone soft, as well. One Chevy/Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Kia dealership near my town was offering up to $5000 in rebates on ALL makes of cars on their lot. As well, I believe that Chevrolet is offering a $2002 rebate on most, if not all, of their models.
Lastly, the PT Cruiser, for which most buyers paid up to $10,000 over MSRP (including the U.S. Government, who bought 2 for crash testing and gave the dealer a nice $20000 profit), is now included with a $1000 rebate in some sections of the country.
Chris
The counterpoint about the guy griping that the Sedona is 4 years late or something was just plain dumb. Is the van competitive now or not? If not, fine-- just say so. But don't knock the van just because it wasn't introduced 4 years ago. Those comments made no sense.
In the end, I really couldn't tell whether CD's overall spin on the Sedona was positive or negative. They had some compliments and some criticisms. But the article included several statements that I couldn't even understand. The subheading about the van being 20% off or something like that-- I didn't know if that was a slam or a kudo. Ditto with the pluses/minuses/verdict comments in the small box on the second page. I didn't understand the "verdict" at all.
Sometimes I think the writers in the auto magazines are more into their prose than the analysis of the vehicle.