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Comments
To answer your question - don't forget to add freight/PDI and Air Tax to your numbers, plus the dealer needs to make something on the deal, say $750 or so. Your target ought to be around $27600 or so plus taxes. That is until the end of August anyway, assuming you are not taking the special lease rate. Of course it also depends on how well Sedonas are selling where you are and whether you're taking one from the lot and even then don't expect to buy at that sort of price without a bit of negotiation.
Keep an eye open for KIA's "computer discrepancy" between quoted price from sales manager and what the finance manager's monthly payment is calculated as. They tried getting another $5/month over 5 years out of me prior to delivery after we struck the deal a day earlier and told me that an extra $5/month is nothing to worry about - principle is principle and to her dislike I refused to pay more than what the deal original sheet stated.
Are we happy with the van? Very happy, but a little disappointed with fuel economy. We've got a big trip to the west coast planned soon, so I'll keep an eye on the mileage and report back.
mcperr: any advice to my questions of Post #2131?
So I've been looking forward to a long trip, where I can squeak a little bit beyond that last hash mark on the gauge and see just how far I can get. The Supreme Commander, on the other hand, lacks the male gene for adventure and inquiry. She gets nervous as soon as that little orange gas pump lights up on the dash, and wants to fill up right away. I get my chance, though, as we head for home from visiting her mom. She falls asleep, we're down around a 1/4 tank, and I figure hey, I'll see how close this DTE computer is to reality. It says it's 100 or so miles to empty, and we're 75 miles from Champaign. I figure that's a pretty safe margin of error. I want to get that DTE reading down to 10-20 miles or so and see how much gas fits in the tank when I fill it up. Usually, when the low fuel light first comes on, the DTE reads at least 150-180 miles.
So we're tooling along on a bright summer day, about 75 mph and A/C on, and the whole clan (except me, of course!) asleep. I begin to get a little concerned, though, when I notice that the DTE computer seems to be going down a little faster than the miles are ticking off. So we start with 100 on the computer, and 75 miles to go, then it's like 70 and 55 to go, then 40 and 35 to go, etc. I'm nervous, but you know.....stubborn. It's not like I'm in remote Nevada. I have a phone.
Then...YIKES! Down around DTE 30 or so, all of a sudden I look up and there's no more numbers! The screen just has five dashes in a row as a readout: -----. I'm sweatin' bullets now. It might not be remote Nevada, but it's rural central Illinois, and there's at least ten or fifteen miles between exits, plus some of the smaller towns don't have gas stations. Plus, it's about 85 degrees. Plus, the "I told you so" factor might well involve the death penalty, in this instance (yes, she's still asleep). I won't just get my nose rubbed in it; I may get my nose ground down flat. So, I turn off the A/C, slow down to 60, and creep along the last eight or ten miles, my back drenched with sweat, and my knuckles white on the wheel. The little orange fuel pump on the dash stares at me accusingly, and the gauge needle is well below the last mark. But..........we make it. I cruise into the Champaign Shell station with a big sigh of relief, secure in the knowledge that my suffering has advanced the cause of science and accurate data gathering. I turn to my wife and lightly sing out (disguising the crack in my voice): "Hey honey, I thought I'd stop for gas. I know you don't like to let it get down too low." "OK dear", she responds, "I want a drink anyway. Hey, why's it so hot in the car?"
So....anyone else have any DTE data to share?
Oh, and by the way: For all that agony, I fit in about 18.2 gallons on that fill-up. Supposedly still had a full gallon in the tank?!?!?
Mark
P.S. for Excelent3: Fred, we may have been trailblazers, but we were high-paying trailblazers. I'm seeing deals in the paper and on this site that are about a G under what I paid last December. The price you pay for taking point, I guess.......
Riders, I assume you have your pick for this year's Grey Cup.
Our Low Fuel light does not come on as early as yours seems to. It typically lights up as the needle gets pretty close to the "E". At that point, the DTE usually says somewhere around 75 miles or so, if I remember correctly.
My wife is lazy when it comes to gassing up the van, so she has driven around a few times with the DTE display reading "-----". So far, we haven't run out of gas with the Sedona.
Our 2 largest fillups are 17.99 and 19.11 gallons. On the latter, my wife left me the van with very little gas, and I actually WAS pretty worried about running out, but my luck held.
I'm not sure if you saw my musings a while back about the maximum DTE + miles traveled that I've achieved with our Sedona. If memory serves, 470 is about the max I've seen-- appx 100-120 miles on the tank, with the DTE reading 350-370.
Other relevant factors and data points, for anyone who might be interested:
* My trusty Excel spreadsheet shows that 54% of the miles are city miles and 47% are highway miles.
* The first 2,000 miles or so averaged about 18.5 mpg, so things have definitely improved as the engine has broken in.
* Our typical highway miles are flat roads, windows closed, averaging 74-75 mph.
*The city miles involve some starts and stops, but not tons, and the occasional 1-2 miles without stopping. In other words, it's not NYC bumper-to-bumper city driving.
* My wife and I are both relatively light on the throttle when accelerating.
* Use of the A/C seems to have very little effect on fuel economy.
* City miles typically are 1 driver with appx. 100 pounds cargo, plus all the seats. Highway miles are typically 2 adults plus the seats, plus appx. 300-400 pounds cargo.
* A typical tankful is usually 70% highway / 30% city, or vice versa. The former usually yields 21-22.5 mpg; the latter, 18-19 mpg. On 100% 75mph highway driving, our Sedona would likely get 23-24 mpg; strict city driving, probably 16-17 mpg.
* Maximum range on a single tank has been 384.3 miles. Maximum fillup 19.11 gallons.
* All 4 tires are regularly maintained at the recommended 35 psi.
* All gas has been 87 octane regular unleaded (that's the el-cheapo octane here in Michigan).
Sheesh, I thought I was pushing the envelope...I'm an amateur.
Anybody want to hear "My First Moving Violation In 20 Years"? I have to admit, the only thing it has to do with a Sedona is that it occurred in one.
>include two keyless remote transmitters. If the Kia Sedona you purchase has a production date earlier than February 17, 2002 , the vehicle will only include one keyless transmitter. Should you have further questions please contact your selling dealership for assistance.
>Thank you
>Kia Motors America
>
(Can a pre-production date earlier than February 17, 2002 Sedona have 2 keyless entries if I purchase a second? The dealer doesnt know.)
Kia replied,
(Thank you for your correspondence. So you know the computer systems from the pre-production date earlier than February 17, 2002 Sedona is interchangeable with a computer system with a production date of February 18,2002 and greater. Please have the dealership contact there Local Kia representative for more details.)
Subsequent to my last post, it happened again about 8 days later. My wife and son were sitting at Sonic waiting for their burgers--kept the engine and a/c running due to the extreme heat. Suddenly, all the various system lights (i.e., ABS, Check Engine) began to flash on one by one, then the engine died, and then it would not start again.
The dealership has had it again now for the past week. The first time this happened, they suspected the alternator, then ended up up-sizing the battery instead. This time they began again suspecting the alternator. Now, after a week, they say they have located a pin-type connector with indications of overheating in a wiring harness--we're now awaiting delivery of a new wiring harness.
The very same day ours died and was towed in last week, there was a KIA technical service bulletin issued about Sedonas experiencing a different electrical problem. It seems Sedonas manufactured in a certain date range may have faulty switches in the lumbar adjustment that sometimes fail to 'disconnect' properly. That drains down the battery when the Sedona is not used for a period of several days.
So....xarly's and my Sedonas die if you run them with a load....others are finding their Sedonas dead if they simply are not run at all for a few days.
Any one else out there with an Sedona electrical story?
Good to have you back!
Strike in Korea evidently still on and affecting delivery, as Aug was slide to Oct for new '03 Sedona's.
Iowasedona-keep good records and go to http://autopedia.com/html/HotLinks_Lemon.html
for your state's lemon law. Most states require around 5 visits for same trouble. Sorry to hear you're having problems on the van...everybody seems to be enjoying theirs.
JC
Awhile back there were several posts on which oil filter to use. I know I should have bookmarked them, but I didn't. Does anybody have the oil filter posts bookmarked? Wish we could search by keyword. Oh well, maybe someday. Thanks!!
Do you care to divulge how good a price you got on the new Sedona? Was a trade-in involved, or just a straight purchase?
In regards to a Class II weight distribution hitch, they are manufactured, probably Draw-Tite or Reese. I had mine somewhat customized, without looking at it I believe it is Reese. They are definitely in production. Try calling U-Haul or do some digging on E-Trailer.com. Good Luck.
I lightly tagged my daughters Geo Prism which has a black rubber compound makeup, and I couldn't believe how easy those damn Kia "bumpers" scratch. Pathetic to say the least. I sure liked my Previa bumpers, they were much more durable. These bumpers are cheap, and the interior plastic is also. My rear baseboard plastic under the back tailgate is pretty hacked up already. No doubt, they have to cut corners somewhere to offer them so cheap. Ex3
Baldwin B227
Champion PH2808
Fram Double Guard DG6607 $11-13
Fram Pro PH6607PRO
Fram PH6607
Hastings LF402 $5-6
Mobil MI-104
Purolator L14459 $3-5
Purolator PureOne PL14459 $5-6
Wix 51334
autozone.com lists these:
Mobil MI-104 $10-12
STP S2808 $3
Bosch 3312 $5.50
Fram PH6607 $4
The stock oil filter is very small. I believe the Purolator PureOne PL24458 is a larger, safe alternative to the PL14459. Our 98 Isuzu Trooper shares many of the same aftermarket filter choices with the Sedona. Therefore, the Castrol MaxPro CM3593A, previously available at KMart but being cleared out there, works too. I think it's made by Wix but I don't remember for sure. The Castrol box lists these cross-references:
Purolator L14459
Wix 51334
AC Delco PF1127
Fram PH3593A
Motorcraft FL810
Napa 1334
Quaker State QS3593B
You'll get plenty of opinions on oil filters, but anything made by Champion Labs or Wix is generally good. Fram are generally bad. The PureOne is a very good value at $5-6. Hastings and Baldwin are made by the same manufacturer. Fairly pricey, but good. The Mobil filters are excellent but at $10-12 are overpriced, IMO.
The Kia brand filter is actually says 'Hyundai' on it. I'm not sure who manufacturers them, but I think it might be Wix. You pay more for buying the Kia-branded filter, though-- my local dealer charged me 5 or 6 bucks apiece.
Also, Wal-Mart's house brand SuperTech filters are well regarded and VERY inexpensive at apx $2. Part # ST6607 for Sedona. They are made by Champion Labs, if I remember correctly.
Hope this helps!
If you want more opinions, visit the Oil Filters topic in the Maintenance & Repair area.
I love the remote start but a week or so ago some idiot here in town pressed his remote as he was walking in front of his car and apparently he had left it in gear and it ran over him. He wasn't seriously injured but I would be mortified if I had made the paper like he did for doing something like that.
I also have run the DTE down to --- several times... by accident the first time, then out of curiousity a couple of times. Hubby freaks if he gets in the van and we have less than a quarter of a tank, but I am one of those people who have run out of gas in every vehicle I have ever owned... with the exception of the Mustang I owned before the Sedona (what a change that was...)
The gas light seems to come on earlier or later depending on how fast you are going... It seems to assume if you are going 70 you need more warning time to stop and get gas than if you are going 35. It's been my experience that in town the gas light never comes on until DTE is --- or less and it goes to --- when it says you have less 35 miles left. But on the highway the light always comes on before the DTE goes to ---. Smart system or just a coincidence ?
More on the sale in the next post. Wanted to give just the basics...short & sweet.
I was leery about buying when they had to get it from another dealer, but I was sucked in and trusted them. I'm sure they are not trying to pull anything, but I remembered, after the paperwork was done, that you should not buy a vehicle without the Munroney (sp?) label. I asked where it was, they said in the glovebox. I looked, nope. They said it must be in the door pocket. They told me they always take them off when they detail the van for delivery. It wasn't there. So, I said I wasn't going to take it until they located it. Well, they got on the phone and called and it must have been misplaced at the other dealer (who had the van in their showroom, so they had taken the sticker and all the plastic off.) They ordered another from Kia, but it hasn't arrived yet. I just received an email from Keller asking me to please sign and return the title application and odometer statement, which they had to send to me to sign because they had made a mistake and had conflicting odometer numbers on the two documents. I told them I will return it when I receive the Munroney label. So, I'm driving around without proper registration, but I figure if I get pulled over, I'll just have to explain what happened and ask the kind officer who I contact about being sold a vehicle without the label, which I understand is a felony. Maybe I am way off base here, but I thought holding this paperwork might keep the salesman from getting paid, and get me the window sticker. Who knows? I was an idiot for actually leaving the lot without it. I knew better. It was 9:00, we hadn't had dinner, and we had a two hour drive home. Starvation, exhaustion, and frustration made me do it.
One thing I could never understand is how the manufacturers of todays vehicles recommend 7500 miles in between oil changes (Including KIA). Have the oil and filters advanced that much that they feel confident to stand behind the warranty at these change intervals???? Becasue of this I have changed my intervals to 5000 miles. I will be useing a Valvoline Synthetic blend once I get up to 25K. The reason for waiting is to allow for the motor to become completely broke in, the rings to be properly set. I have heard to many reports of people using synthetic oil on new vehicles, and then they wonder why their blowing oil. Although some manufacturers actually design their engines to use synthetics on new engines (Mercedes, BMW) it is generally not a good idea. I have used this same Valvoline oil in my motorhome (454 cu. in) with 54k on it, and it really quieted the engine down, runs noticeable smoother. Ex3
I then went to NAPA auto parts and they sold me one for about $14.00 which the sales person said was a bit of a discount. NAPA's filters are made by WIX and this filter has made in Korea on it so was probably made by the original equipment maker.NAPA's part # is 2086 and WIX's number is 42086
Don't feel stupid about leaving without the sticker. I consider myself a smart consumer and I don't think I even verified we had the Mulroney sticker before we left the dealer with our new Sedona. Plus, you had a long drive ahead of you and it was late. You had your reasons for leaving without it.
One other avenue you may pursue to verify that the van you bought has the options/equipment that Keller claims, is to provide Kia USA with the VIN and ask them to tell you which equipment is on the van. Most manufacturers will do this via their 800#.
Re: price paid, your price was $22,020 BEFORE the rebate. Did you also get the $1,000 rebate, for a final cost of $21,020? Even if you didn't, I think that $22,020 price is very good. Our Sedona has the same equipment (EX with everything except rear spoiler) and we paid $23,930 (exactly $1,000 off MSRP) back in February.
I don't feel so bad now. I paid $22,750 for a fully loaded EX. Two tone sappfire blue/beige, sunroof, leather, Homelink, ABS, spoiler. It did not come with the spoiler, they had to order it in and did a beautiful job of matching the paint. I thought I had seen some others paying about 1K less, if so more power to em. I thought I worked them over pretty good, timing my purchase to Dec 30th, right at the end of the year. I took delivery in early Feb. I bought the van at Kia Direct in La Crosse, WI. From what I understand it is one of the few stand alone Kia dealers in the midwest, they sell nothing but Kia's. I would recommend them, they were excellent to deal with! EX3
The results look good to me, and are either a testament to the new oil specs or the engineering precision of engine fabrication today, or some of both! Either way, looks outstanding overall! Real world (our Sedona) is the number on the left; average world number is on the right for comparison. [Hopefully, the columns will post okay.]
SUMMARY: "No problems showed up in the initial sample from your Kia. Usually we find much higher wear in a new engine such as yours, but your wear levels are right around averages. The universal averages show normal wear after 3500 miles on the oil, which is the same oil use interval you used. Insolubles were average at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. No fuel dilution or anti-freeze was found. Silicon was normal at 28 ppm, so your air filtration is still getting the job done. Check back with your next oil change. We think wear will drop further than this."
MI/HR ON OIL "3,541" UNIVERSAL AVERAGES
MI/HR ON UNIT 6511
SAMPLE DATE 8/9/02
ALUMINUM 5 3
CHROMIUM 1 1
IRON 28 24
COPPER 10 7
LEAD 3 8
TIN 7 2
MOLYBDENUM 61 55
NICKEL 0 1
MANGANESE 2 0
SILVER 0 0
TITANIUM 0 0
POTASSIUM 0 0
BORON 8 57
SILICON 28 14
SODIUM 3 7
CALCIUM 1527 1490
MAGNESIUM 34 219
PHOSPHORUS 717 719
ZINC 905 883
BARIUM 2 0
END REPORT
BTW: The oil that replaced this is SuperTech 10w-30 SL and a ProTrak (Trak Auto Brand) M4459 oil filter, $2ea.So I'll post the next sample result in about 6 months or 5K miles, whichever is first.
Nevertheless, I also have to add that experiencing the --- display was very disappointing seeing that other DTEs I have seen will go right down to single digits. Add that I have yet to pay for more than 17.5 gallons of gas at any one fill up and that the DTE fluctuates fairly wildly in around town driving, and I think one can understand why this is somewhat disappointing.
Also, the external temp display in our van is off by about +6 degrees (day or night, cold engine or warm - so it's not a latent heat issue), which also is somewhat disappointing. The only time this is really going to be an issue is at about 35-40 degrees F, if one fails to apply the correction value and adjust driving posture for the onset of icing conditions.
Oh well, W,W,B,B - the C in my personality requires precision - and I can get over it for the precisely excessive sums left in my pockets after paying for this van.
Bought a new EX six weeks ago. Very happy with van, inspite of lackluster dealer.
Anyway, we are doing a family vacation on Monday and the back left seat will NOT come out! It tilts up but the front hooks will not disengage from the bars/holddowns.
No problem w/ other seats.
Took it to the dealer and their techs are off on Saturdays. Anyone experience this?
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Pete in NJ
I hope it is a good deal.
We were very impressed with the car. Our previous experiences (because of driving family and friends cars) are limited to the Sienna (which we also like and are considering buying used) and the Quest (which we felt had a load and unimpressive ride).
The car accelerated smoothly and powerfully, surprisingly so considering the weight. The ride was quiet and the handling was great.
The turning radius will take some getting used to (it seemed even worse then the Quest) and the air conditioner was straining to cool off the cabin (to be fair, it was 95 degrees out).
I asked the dealer about the 2003 model to confirm the rumored 8 percent price increase, but he professed ignorance about the 2003's (he didn't seem to know much about the 2002's either).
Does anyone remember when Kia introduced the 1k cash back on the 2002's? I'm starting to think that, even though we still have four more payments of $369 on our SUV, it might be worth it to buy a 2002 next month considering the following:
1) The 2003's might be stickered at $1500 more
2) Dealers might be less inclined to move off the MSRP, thereby costing us another (approx) $1,000.
3) In November, we will go over on mileage in our current lease and will be paying 15 cents a mile (about $180 per month).
4) If Kia is not offering the 1k back on the new models, we will then be spending close to $3500 more for a mostly unchanged vehicle.
I think I'm going to wait until September and see what deals Kia is offering (maybe they will raise the cashback on the 2002 when the 2003 comes out). By then, we will only have three payments left on the lease and will be closer to having used up the mileage allowance.
I'm also calling Kia motors- I want my darn DVD :-)
I'm not sure how plentiful the 2002 Sedonas will be once the 2003s roll in, but one thing that might work against you is that Sedona isn't a huge-volume vehicle to begin with. It's not like the Accord or Taurus which sell 400,000+ units and are bound to have plenty of leftovers at model year-end.
Glad you enjoyed your test drive. Yes, the turning radius is pretty poor. It's annoying, but not a huge inconvenience.
Thanks
As for the trip from Houston to Denver in the Sedona.....a pleasant experience.
Recall that my wife has very heavy bones in her feet....our average speed (on computer display) was 72 MPH. But, this includes traffic, and various stops along the way. Overall, I would estimate that our HWY speed was in excess of 85 MPH for most of the trip. We averaged 18 MPG....with a van loaded to the hilt, and a top pack on the luggage rack (which acts like a parachute).
Too bad about her speeding ticket, though.
Anyway, our van now has about 21k miles....and with the exception of the "loose gas cap" issues, we are still extremely pleased with the van.
As for plywood....not quite a full sheet. But, you can get 7'6" x 3'8" sheet.....getting it into the cargo hold is the difficult part. Or, consider cutting the sheet in half.
As for rear seat removal.....it requires only a bit a practice, and patience.
RGDS
HOK
Any hints on getting this annoying MIL smell out of the van?
HOK
HOK
I think he probably folded it.