Kia Sedona (2005 and Earlier)

jondot

stubay, in my humble opinion, you won't miss ABS. My experience with ABS in my former van, a '96 Dodge Grand Caravan was less than satisfactory; in fact, I think they caused a minor fender bender I experienced. The brakes in the Sedona are excellent. Fortunately, I have had only one true emergency stop in the 16 months I have had the Sedona and I know the Dodge would not have stopped as well as the Sedona did to avoid an accident.

akwilliams

Stubay, we went through the same thought process as you. We decided to go for the abs. We have been thankful a number of times. Although the standard brakes are good, we have had the abs kick in on a number of occasions. On snow, the abs acts as a warning that you are losing traction. On wet roads it has literally saved us when someone in front of us pulled a panic stop. Add to this the insurance discount (it may actually pay for the other options over the life of the van) and the added resale value of having leather and the sun roof and you have a pretty compelling case for spending the extra money. Whatever you chose, I hope you enjoy the vehicle as much as we have.

deepan

If you drive/live in snowy/wet conditions ABS is definitely the way to go. On dry pavement it might not be too useful. with ABS the stops are more controlled and you have steering control as the wheels dont lock up.

If you have small children you would love the leather. So much easier to clean up after the mess the leave behind

bluedevils

A fully loaded EX for $21,250 is a great deal. I've read a review somewhere-- sorry, don't remember exactly where-- that Sedona's braking performance is quite a bit better with ABS vs. without. In my opinion, it's always a good idea to have ABS. This is especially true on Sedona, due to its heft.

bnhbucks

I am in agreement with the group - the ABS is very helpful and has been good this winter in all of this snow. The price you are being quoted is outstanding for all of those options.

I have ABS, moonroof and spoiler without the leather. Mine is a 2002, though, bought in October. I believe it was a unique find. As you have stated most with these options include leather.

I would go for it at that price.

stubay

Thanks for the quick feedback on my ABS dilemna. We do get a fair amount of rain, snow and, this morning, ice here in the D.C. area, so I'm hopinf the ABS will be useful enough to justify the other options. We are about to head to the dealer to hopefully close the deal. Again, this is a great board to have learned from and I hope to become a contributor once I've become a Sedona owner. Thanks to all who replied so fast! Any further thoughts will still be appreciated just in case we hit a bump in the road (pun intended). Thanks!

bluedevils

You said 'I'm hoping ABS will be useful enough to justify the other options.' Considering how cheaply you can get the vehicle - $21,250 - I hope your answer is YES. My parents bought a loaded 2003 Sedona EX about a month ago and even though my dad didn't want/doesn't care for/will never use the moonroof, the van was still a great deal at $21,350.

hoyahenry

Yes, I think you got great feedback. And on days like today, you'll appreciate the ABS, if needed, and the fog lights, which are standard!

StevePIII

I have seen on this forum that a DVD/video player is available for the sedona, but there is nothing listed on the brochure?? is there in fact a video system option and if you would be so kind, how much. Thanks

bluedevils

Kia sent a notice to its dealers that a DVD-based entertainment system would be available later for the 2003 Sedona. However, the communication (a copy is available on the NHTSA site with the Sedona TSBs) was not clear if this was a factory-installed or dealer-installed option.

Personally, I think the vehicle-mounted systems are too expensive and not the best choice. Why not go with a $200-400 portable unit, available in various configurations, and secure it in the vehicle when in use? Then you can use it at home or elsewhere when it's not being used in the van. Plus it doesn't stay in the van all the time, being exposed to temperature extremes and sunlight. Another good option is a laptop computer with a built-in DVD player.

My personal opinion is that people are getting too hung up on these ceiling-mounted VHS/DVD players with monitor. Sure, they are convenient. But they are also expensive and less versatile than portable alternatives.

I saw a unit at Target last week, on clearance for $200. It was a separate small DVD player and headrest-mounted 5.5" LCD monitor. It had a provision to accept a 2nd monitor. So you could buy 2 of these units and use either 1 or both DVD players, and have a dual-monitor setup.

marathonnh

I am currently checking out Sedonas. I just need an LX with no features except maybe a roof rack. I haven't seen a good "buy" price but was wondering about a price listed for a brand new Sedona LX by QuirkKia in MA is what would be considered a good buy. The offer it for $16,749 and the guy on the phone said that there is a "documentation fee" of around $200. Does that sound good and reasonable? Will other dealerships be likely to meet that price. Also, I gather the roof rack is a Yakima. Are Yakima bike mounts all I need to put a couple of bikes up there? Thanks for any help.

bluedevils

marathon, that sounds like a really good price. So would $16,949 - assuming the $200 doc fee is on top of the $16,749. Please confirm that's for a 2003, not a 2002. And at that price, I'm sure it includes the $1,000 rebate. Is there a trade-in involved. A couple folks in the last couple months have reported here that they bought a 2003 LX with minimal options for low $18s. Under $17k, even for a base LX with no options, seems like an excellent price.

bluedevils

For additional pricing, you could try a couple things:

1) carsdirect.com - enter your zip code and configure your Sedona as desired, and see what the Carsdirect is.

2) Request some quotes from several local dealers. You can do this via the kia.com web site or via other 3rd-party sites such as autobytel.com, carpoint.com, etc.

Either of those alternatives should result in some specific offers from dealers, with a minimum of time and hassle. However, the price quote you received, assuming it's valid and NOT a bait-and-switch or lowball, seems really good and I don't think you can do much better by shopping around.

stever

Marathonnh, please go elsewhere in Town Hall instead of refreshing your screen, and then come back here. Refreshing is causing your message to repost. (It's a "feature" of our software) Thanks!

Steve, Host

bluedevils

Wow, what a "feature."

Thanks, steve. I'll keep that in mind, since I used to refresh fairly often.

bluedevils

steve, that one's been on ice for about 2 weeks now. Any plans to reopen it? I do find it personally satisfying, though it may have been totally coincidental, that the discussion degenerated shortly after I decided to drop out of the loop on that topic. The disappointing thing was some of the (presumably) rudest posts were deleted before I could read them!

stever

The refresh bug only bites after you post.

The Thoughts about Kia discussion lived on another board. Not my table :-) (whew!)

Steve, Host

marathonnh

Thanks Bluedevils. My dad bought a car from that dealer two years ago for a price his local dealer wouldn't go near so I guess their pricing is good. He was happy with the dealer. And, yes that price includes the rebate- no trade. I would like a local place to match it, but if not I could travel down there to buy it.
Sorry about refreshing and making reposts. I guess I should log out and back in.

mcperr

Just read a review on the 2003 Sienna.
 http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tw/04sienna.htm

Likely not new news to most of you, but the first time that I had seen good photos of the Sienna dash. Note the obvious (to Sedona stalwarts) Kia influences:
- two-tone dash colours
- upper and lower glove boxes
- dash mounted gear shift
- folding ash tray cover
- table between front seats
Now if they just add automatic wipers, leather seats, sunroof, killer stereo and sell it for $8,000 less than the 2002 Sienna they will have a great van.

stever

No biggie Marathonnh. I've been bugging our software guy about a fix :-)

Steve, Host

bnhbucks

Mcperr - very interesting comparison. Unfortunately, most will not go to the Sedona before they make the tragic mistake of spending much more then they should on the Sienna. If only someone could tell them before they do... I'm actually feeling evangelistic about my Sedona!

erikklein

I paid $18,132 after $1000 rebate and before tax, tags, etc. in August 2002 for a 2002 LX with a Roof Rack and a CD Player. I considered this a *reasonable* price since I had gotten it over the internet via email with the dealer. There was ZERO HAGGLING and no trips to "the manager's office" to approve pricing.

HOWEVER, I would've been willing to go thru a lot of Dealer Punishment for $16,949!!! Check out the van and if it looks ok, buy it. You WILL NOT find that price elsewhere.

marathonnh

OK Here is what happened at Quirk Kia in Braintree, MA. They have, even still now, advertised on their website Kia 2003 LX's for $16,749. The sale says 2 days, last Sat and Sun. I called Sunday night and spoke to Lewis. He said that the is the correct price and the only other additional fee was a $299 documentation fee and the price would still be good. When I said I live in NH, he said thats great you won't even have to pay sales tax! I called last night to make sure that the price was still good, he said the same things and said he had "plenty" in stock "greens, blues ect." So I took the day off to go down today to buy one. Met a young salesman who didn't know much but was friendly. I told him I spoke to Lewis on the phone, he said that he was the sales manager and would let him know we were here. He pointed him out to us but Lewis did not come over to even say hi for over 45 minutes. THe young guy asked what color we wanted. We said blue. He drove a sage one over from another lot and said the blue had just got in and wasn't ready. We drove the sage around liked it and said we were ready to buy the blue at the agreed upon price. After long delays of waiting around Lewis came over and said that the Sage was the only one at the advertised price and said the blue and all the other models were from a newer shipment.He showed us the shipping price between the two and the list price was $250 more. After more lengthy delays he said he could only sell the blue for $899 more than the Sage's final price. We decided the Sage was nice enough, our second pick, and told him we would get that one instead. More delays: he got the credit card info for a down payment and found out we were not financing it. More delays: all of a sudden at 3 o'clock (after 3 hours in the shop) a storm of activity happens and a new guy rushes in (were all the delays waiting for this guy to take his shift?) He was the picture of and had the attitude of the stereotypical used car salesman. He started ranting at us that it was not the current ad. We told him the price was confirmed over the phone to us and in the shop. He showed a newer ad from a paper that had the EX for $100 cheaper than the "LX" and then pointed out some "loyalty" blurb on only the new EX ad that said you had to pay $2000 more if you didn't own a KIA (actually I didn't see it in the new ad he was just shaking his chubby finger at it) Then he said, "for your information, you will have to pay 5% Massachusetts sales tax even if you live in NH. I strongly believed this to be not true but he wouldn't argue and started thrusting some book at me that said it said so in the book that it is the law. He said he sold lots of Kia's to people in NH and they all pay the sales tax. Even the "police chief" in NH who has bought three of them pays the tax said he. I told him that he sales manager did not even know about the sales tax and he said, oh he doesn't sell them to people in NH! Knowing that we were now dealing with a very shady and untrustworthy man we decided to walk away. Of course I am guessing that is what he wanted us to do. I went back to my local dealer who has no LX's in stock. He said that the sales tax info was clearly wrong. After all no car dealer in Mass would survive because then all the MA people would come up to NH to buy and avoid the sales tax. He said the lowest he could go after finding one first would be $18092 with all fees. It is a bit more than even the "tax" price offer but I would rather deal with an honorable business than the slime that I met at Quirk today. My dad was their today and he has bought many new cars, quite happily, through the other Quirk dealerships-not the KIA's, but he was totally turned off today. First they tried to bait and switch and then they tried to "steal" some extra tax money. Has anyone heard of this "tax" issue before or is this a new one? Anyhow a big THUMBS DOWN to Quirk Kia!

bluedevils

marathon, that's too bad. Unfortunately, it sounds like Kia has its share of unethical dealers, just as most other brands do.

That sub-$17k price sounded too good to be true, and it seems that it was.

I don't know how MA and NH work the sales tax, but some neighboring states have agreements in place whereby one state will collect the sales tax from an out-of-state buyer and send it to that buyer's home state. E.g. I live in Michigan and almost bought a Sedona in Michigan. Both the Ohio dealer salesman (via phone) and the lady at our local Secretary of State office told me that Ohio and Michigan have such an agreement. So I would have paid Michigan sales tax, and NOT Ohio sales tax, on the vehicle purchased in Ohio for registration and use in Michigan.

arjay1

As mentioned, many states have reciprocal agreements regarding sales tax. Otherwise, everyone would just drive across the border to buy a car or other high ticket item.
Here is Missouri you pay your sales tax to the DMV when you license the vehicle, not at the dealer. This way you can't avoid the tax regardless of were you purchase.
Even if you buy and avoid the sales tax, your state should then charge you a "use" tax on the vehicle. This is the tax to use something for which the state did not get sales tax.

mrwallace

One of the earlier reviews of the 2002 Sedona suggested that the handling might be improved if the van had 16 inch tires with a 60 profile.

Does anyone feel that this might benefit handling or perhaps improve MPG? Has anyone tried it, and what have been the results?

If you think that this is a dumb idea, don't be shy.

hoyahenry

First, what are the perceived handling issues?

I have been relatively pleased with the OEM Hankook tires so far.

mrwallace

H, my point in raising tire size was not meant to be disparaging of the Sedona, but when I first began doing research on the vehicle, one of the first article that I saw was here on the Edmunds's site - Road Test by Karl Brauer 4/23/02. To quote " it hustled through the slalom at a rapid 59.6 MPH. This was despite the squishy and noisy 15-inch Hankook tires. Upgrade the van with 16-inch wheels and 60 series rubber from a mainstream company, and you'd have a nimble vehicle that's still comfortable during the long haul."

I was just curious if anyone had gone this route. Secondly, (and I probably show my ignorance in asking this question) would a 16-inch wheel have a positive impact on the van's universally recognized weakness - its MPG?

If I might add an anecdote, I bought a Honda CRX Si the first year that they were available. The standard tire arrangement was either a 14 or 15-inch wheel with Michelins. Either "Car and Driver" or "Motor Trend" wrote a review voicing the opinion that the car would perform better with a larger wheel and Yokohama treads. The following year that combination became standard equipment on the Si. Occasionally, a knowledgable outsider can detect fine points that lead to improvement.

hoyahenry

I didn't think you were being disparaging, but I did think that there was a solution in search of a problem. Thank you; I was interested in the source and had forgotten about that piece.

I will admit that I know very little about tires overall. I did some quick research on tirerack. It seems to me that one would have to forego the alloy rims and start over to go to a bigger tire since taller replacements also appear to get wider at the same time.

bluedevils

A lower-profile tire, e.g. a 60 series instead of the factory 70 series, would probably improve handling. So would a tire with a sportier or more aggressive pedigree than the stock choices. You could do either or both of these and stick with 15" tires or with 16" tires or with even larger tires.

I don't know enough about tires to have an opinion on whether simply increasing to a 16" tire would likely improve handling. That doesn't seem logical to me.

I'm also not sure if a larger-diameter tire can result in better fuel economy. I'm sure there are some general theories about this. The one thing worth noting is that one must make calculations due to the different tire size before comparing fuel economy. Typically, you lose some power when switching to larger tires. I don't know if better fuel economy is thought to be the tradeoff.

Another benefit of a 16" tire, in addition to possible better handling if one decided on a 60 series version, is better looks. To me, the factory tires look a little too small sitting in the wheel wells. However, I'm pleased enough with the handling that changing tires is not something I'll be doing until the OEM Hankooks wear out. They seem to do just fine on our Sedona.

I'm trying to convince my dad to get a new set of 16" tires, on new 16" rims, and use the factory rims with snow tires. So far I don't think he's interested in spending the monehy on that 'solution.'

twotonesedona

I too shopped at Quirk Kia in Quincy/Braintree. Went there with all intentions of getting a great deal via a newspaper article. Was greeted by typical used car salesmen mentality, got the run around for 3+ hours finally took the wife and two screaming kids and beat a path out of there never to return. We ended up buying ours at a Kia dealership in New Bedford. They had three on the lot and we picked the one we liked for the price we liked. In and out of there is less than 20 minutes with our new van. Love it and the dealership.

lok888

Sorry to hear this. Actually I bought my Sorento (off topic?) from Quirk Kia in December. I had been sending emails back and forth with the other sales manager (Harry) even before I went to the dealer. He quoted me a reasonable price (the lowest when compare with Boch Kia and Peter Fuller Kia). And he still honor the same price even almost a month after for my second test drive. The price was bit more because there is one option which ready installed from factory. I like the car and I agreed with the price. I mean, the Sorento was only over two months old in US. But he was willing to deal with me with no B.S. However, those young salesmen seem don't know much about the car model and feature.

marathonnh

Just wanted to check back and update my experience at Quirk. I sent the e-mail to all Quirk dealerships except the Kia one about what happened and also explained how they lost two customers. "Harry" called back the next day saying he had to make things right after reding the e-mail. He also sent a reply saying how he "forgot" to mention that all he needed to do was fill out a form so I wouldn't have to pay taxes in NH. The local Kia dealer had none in stock but would have tried to find me one and sell it to me for a little over $18,000. I would have been happy with that but decided to check into Grand Caravan's. Found a new 2003 one with the options we wanted for a just a couple hundred more than the Kia. I bought it for a great price. I would have been a proud KIA owner if Quirk hadn't messed with me, but I am just as happy with what I did get. Thanks, this board helped me realize that a Sedona was a great van-unfortuately I didn't get one but I think they are a good vehicle. Still, thumbs down to Quirk. The Boston Globe did have a feature on the owner in Sunday's paper.

bluedevils

So what did you pay for the Grand Caravan, and what options did it have? Are you talking well under $20k for the Grand Caravan? That seems like a pretty good deal. I have no idea what the incentives are right now on the DCX vans - must be pretty big?

lok888

marathonnh - My brother's friend got a 2003 Kia Spectra from them. When the people from Kia Consumer Affairs called her about the experience with the dealer (I think Kia don't provide written questionnaire), she mentioned to Kia that her salesman was not professional, not knowledgeable to car model and features, and often refer the owner's manual. The same salesman who sold me the Sorento called me a month ago. Saying that he didn't get commission on her car and the dealer got $1000 fine. Maybe you can call them. It's not guarantee you'll get anything back. It's definitely leaves a bad mark on them. But based on my past bad experience with some dealers, I got something like $100 certificate for service from one car and got my $200 deposit back from the other one. Good luck to your Dodge!

marathonnh

The price was just about $18,400 for everything (and no sales tax!)out the door. It had about $1000 worth of upgrades (power windows, steering, mirrors, and the climate 2 package). I will have to get a cd player for it though. It definately doesn't have all the options of the Sedona but we are thrilled (it is my first new vehicle ever).

bluedevils

marathon, it's a Grand Caravan, not a regular Caravan? $18,400 seems pretty good. Sure, you don't have all the equipment of a Sedona but still that's not much money to pay for a brand new large minivan. Please tell me that power steering was standard, not optional!

marathonnh

Yes, Bluedevils, it is a 2003 Grand Caravan with power "Doors", mirrors, and windows and the price was $200 less than the $18,400 (too much money running in my head and out my wallet!)The manufacture's price was $24,000 and change.

bnhbucks

Maybe they are seeing that people want quality and don't need to pay outrageous prices for it! Let's chalk another one up for KIA Sedona!

I cannot believe that price, though. I wonder if something is wrong with the vehicle that made them bring it down so low.Anyway, congrats - it sounds like you got what you wanted.

My Kia is still going strong. I am a bit miffed by all this snow, though - my van looks like a salt mine and there is not enough time in between snows to make it worth my while to wash it off - even though I do :-). I am definitely looking forward to spring if for no other reason that to have a clean vehicle once again.

mc126

Bought my Sedona last March. Very Happy with it. Goes great in the snow.

very minor issues.

1. rubber stop on gas cap door fell off.
2. round cover on captain's chair arm rest fell off (covers bolt where it swivels).
3. I slid a box in and pulled the fabric off rear speaker.
4. cup holders in dash don't always push in (have to manually pick up the bottom part to push in).

So far none of these has motivated me to take it to the dealer.

bluedevils

If you do decide to take your Sedona to the dealer for minor warranty work, consider this:

* You might be able to get your dealer to cover the damaged speaker fabric under warranty, depending on how friendly your dealer is. While removing one of the rear seats in our Sedona, I dropped it down onto the plastic strip along the back of cargo area and cracked the strip. Dealer replaced entire strip under warranty, no questions asked.

* Depending on when your Sedona was manufactured, you may have the old-style front cupholders. There is a revised cupholder assembly and you may be able to get yours replaced with the new one. Even if you already have the new one, they should replace it free. Nice details of the cupholder stuff on the NHTSA web site, in the Sedona TSBs/recalls area.

lok888

In about few months, my in laws are looking for a minivan to replace their 2000 Honda Odyssey. They are looking for something like the Odyssey. Is Sedona a good choice? How much will be cost for the top of the line model?

bluedevils

what does "something like the Odyssey" mean? In the U.S., you should be able to get a loaded 2003 Sedona EX for $22,300-$22,800. That does not include any rebates. Right now, there's a $1,000 rebate so the price would be $21,300-21,800.

Sedona is not as large or roomy as Odyssey. It's not quite as fast either.

bnhbucks

Bluedevils: what does this mean? "It's not quite as fast either". Don't you mean that it does not quite have the same power? Fast is fast - I'm sure it goes as fast, but it is not quite as powerful or maybe as quick, but even that is a minor point - it is powerful - more so than most vans.

lok888: The biggest point of Sedona vs. the Odyssey is that it costs a whole lot less. You get more for less. A secondary point, which they may consider primary, is that the gas mileage is better on the Odyssey.

StevePIII

take a look at the new ford minivan -- looks an awful lot like my wife's sedona

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/autoshows/2003/chicag- o/2003_chicago_day_one.xml

mrwallace

I am a little late in doing this, but I want to thank Hoyahenry and Bluedevils for their comments on the 16" wheel idea. BD, if you ever convince your dad to switch to 16" wheels, please keep us apprised of what he finds.

Pulling from the "Sedona Problems" discussion, "Tires,tires,tires" is a great dicussion.

bluedevils

This week is the one-year mark with our 2002 Sedona EX. So far, we really enjoy driving and riding in it, and owning it. A brief update so far:

2002 Kia Sedona EX. Price paid: $22,930. MSRP: $23,930. Green exterior, beige interior. Options. Leather interior, ABS, Moonroof, Homelink, two-tone paint (beige lower color). [Only option we omitted was the rear spoiler.]

Total miles: appx 15,200. Roughly 50/50 city/highway split. Overall fuel economy 19.5-19.6 MPG. Typical highway MPG 21-22, city 17-18.

Dealer service visits: 2. Additional service: changed own oil and filter at 1,876 miles; 4,970 miles; 11,645 miles; and 14,613 miles. Replaced air filter at 14,613 miles.

Here's our dealer service history. Overall, we've had a few minor problems, most of which have been corrected by the dealer the first time and in a couple cases, the second time. I'm pleased with the quality of the vehicle so far. Typically, I expect more, and/or more significant, problems in the first year - especially with a newer model.

FIRST DEALER SERVICE VISIT
Sept 2002, 7700 miles.
1. Complained of left pull. Nothing done. Was told that tires needed to be rotated more often!
2. Rear wiper arm missing trim piece. Ordered part.
3. Rear cargo area has broken trim. Ordered part.
4. Requested airbag reprogram. Nothing done - 'scan tool not available to test'. [Dealer basically had no idea what I was talking about, even though I explained it and the letter from Kia.]
5. Right middle seat belt does not work properly. Nothing done. [This must have been user error. Belt seems to be working fine in last 6+ months.]
6. Asked about getting a 2nd keyless remote fob programmed. Was told cost is $102.40, but our van can have only one remote. [Already knew that but was glad dealer knew it, too.]
7. Lube oil filter - used free coupon sent by Kia. 5W30 oil and new drain plug gasket.
8. Rotate and balance tires.
9. Asked about 'AC air filter.' Part on order. [I've forgotten to check back with the dealer about this.]

SECOND DEALER SERVICE VISIT
Oct 2002, 9300 miles
1. Complained again about left pull; requested alignment and printout of specs. Vehicle aligned; printed specs provided, though some values seem slightly out of spec. Van seems to drive straighter now.
2. Keyless remote performs poorly. Informed them of the grouding plate replacement procedure. Nothing done this visit. I think dealer ordered the parts.
3. Rear wiper arm trim. New part installed.
4. Cargo area trim. New part installed.
5. Airbag reprogram. Reprogrammed airbag computer.

The only concern I've raised with the dealer that's not yet resolved is the grounding plate procedure to fix the poor keyless remote performance. Other than that, the dealer has taken care of all our issues. I do have a few existing small things to ask about on our next visit, but none of them is a pressing concern:

CURRENT CONCERNS
* Rear hatch seems to swing open harshly. The struts do not seem to be holding the door back during the first half of its opening movement. Not sure if this has gotten worse or been that way all along.

* Slight rubbing/hooting sound when braking softly/gradually/slowly. Occurs only occasionally, and only when vehicle is just about at a stop.

* Spare tire damage caused by metal bars that hold the tire in place. Others on the Edmunds tires forum seem to think this is not a big deal, but I'd like my dealer to tell me that in writing, or to replace the tire.

FUTURE MAINTENANCE
Other upcoming items for our van include another tire rotation, and probably a brake inspection at the same time. Also plan to replace the mysterious "AC air filter."

Overall, we really like this van. It's comfortable and peppy. It has lots of thoughtful features. It could be bigger, but it has plenty of room for our current family (hubby/wife/toddler/75-pound dog) and our future family plans (second kid). I've posted here before that our parents bought one, in large part because our good experience allayed their concerns about buying a Kia and also because they simply liked our van.

lok888

I can't really tell if they look the same by looking the picture. But I can tell the Sedona EX looks like Ford Windstar with the chrome trim around the body. One day, I almost confuse that the Sedona is the Windstar from a distance. BTW, is Ford going to replace the Windstar with the Freestar in 2004? What's wrong with the name? With all the excellent crash test result and government ratings, people are think Ford Windstar is a household name.

stever

Thanks for the update Blue - I'm keeping an open mind about the spare tire issue.

Lok888, I posted a link somewhere that every Ford model name will be starting with the letter "F" except for some "classics" like the Thunderbird. A marketing concept I guess.

Steve, Host

grandtotal

I could see Funderbird, but not Faurus. And what about their whole line of Ees? Though come to think of it it's not a bad idea to drop Exploder.

I saw a Freestar in the metal last night, it certainly does not look less like a Sedona than before.