By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
If you can't find one, try dealing on a van that's close to what you want and in stock - believe me, if it's been sitting awhile he'll want to move it.
Sorry I haven't had time to respond to several posts this week. Boss has been gone, and we've been up to our ears in sandbox taskers (read Iraq). I'm #2 so I guess that means I try harder.
RE Oil: I prefer Mobil One. Can get for $3.69 at the "red bullseye" store, cheapest in Northern VA. (Almost wrote NVA, but that has some baggage for some of my friends). SYNTEC does make a hybrid oil, but it is clearly marked...their "real" synthetic has had some write ups that say it isn't any different than M1 for efficiency.
As for cost, if you run the #'s and make some comparisons:
Cost: 4.5 qts (say 3.75 vice 3.69 for math shortcut)
Regular oil 4.5 qts at $1.25
Synthetic 3x as expensive or $11.25 more per oil change.
IF (and only if) you save 1 MPG using synthetic oil, that is $1.40 per gallon saved. If you gain
1 gallon/tank, that is 8 tank fulls to break even on the increased cost or around 2100 miles. Plus you have decreased engine wear. (Plus, truth be known, the synthetic guys swear you can change the filter, add a new quart of oil, and go for 25K plus miles that way...not that I would void my warentee doing that, but....) I have two cars running synthetic, including two over 125K with synthetic used like this, and a truck with 45K.
RE space: I put a small lug nut wrench in the jack compartment and have no room for my 20' jumper cables (ever tried to jump in a parking lot where you can't get next to the car?)
I have original equipment bug guard and wind deflector for moon roof. I thought deflector increased closed noise at first, but now don't notice it. Wife hasn't commented about any noise increase on closed moonroof, and she drives it the most. I don't buy from Whitney...many moons ago when I could least afford it, they cashed a check, declared bankrupcy and didn't send the merchandise. Got a "tough luck" note when I complained. I DO look at their catalog for good ideas, though, and shop elsewhere for the merchandise.
RE DVD: I'm looking at using our portable one similar to your usage, guys. What I'm thinking of doing is buying some headrest mounted video monitors (2 for 2 kids), running permanent wires to plug into portable equipment, and having secondary wire go to to Nav system monitor aux input so wife can watch on X-county. All I want is the voice input telling me to go left lane/right lane, turn ahead...no, I barely watch TV now, so no attraction for me to see while driving...plus will use wireless headphones for all.
If I come up with a decent set up, will share with all...sort of inventing on the fly right now, as our community not as well developed as some on the technical improvements to our vehicles.
Snow here tonight...8". Have to crash. They call at 0400 so I can make the decision whether to have folks come in to work or not. Night all.
Thanks for the 2748 reminder; just bookmarked.
Synthetic Oil
I did not see any change in fuel economy on a different vehicle when I ran Mobil 1 in it for 15-20k miles. This vehicle uses oil, and with me not willing to go past 5-6k miles on any oil, I switched back to conventional. Mobil 1, especially the current formulation, SuperSyn, is an excellent oil and very good value at < $4/qt. However, I am not convinced that any reduced wear from synthetics, even if this can be shown, is significant enough to affect the performance or longevity of the engine in the average consumer's vehicle. Synthetic protects better at extreme temps and in catastrophic situations and pumps better cold etc etc etc. But it's just not worth it for me.
If you were to claim on Bob is the Oil Guy's site that Castrol Syntec is on par with Mobil 1, you would most likely be stoned or shot to death.
Bug Guard
Did you buy it from a local dealer? Cost? Install yourself, or dealer install?
To make the story short, I was looking for an LX equipped with two captain chairs (for personal reasons) and ABS for safety reason from the beginning. I went to the dealer more than three weeks ago and brought these issues up to the salesman. The salsman is a young man, with plenty of courtesy, doing his best to try to sell me a car. But he failed to get back to me to give me a quote for the possibility of the exchange of the 2nd raw bench seat for two captain chairs. As suggested by other salesmen, I went to the service department for the information about the exchange, I was misinformed that the floor layout was different between the EX and the LX, such that the LX can only receive second raw bench seat, but not two captain chairs.
So, I went back to the dealership ready to buy an LX plus the ABS option from them with the understanding (as suggested by people on this board)that I can get an LX about $1,000 below invoice price. That was exactly what I got from them. First, they tried to enticed me into $20,470, the sticker price, with a 6 percent loan from the bank. I told them I could pay cash. So we agreed on the price for an LX with ABS at $18,300, CASH. That was about $1,000 below invoice price and $2,200 below the MSRP.
At last, the manager, knowing that I would pay cash for the car, came to me and said that I would be doing them a great favor if I could agree on a loan at 6 percent interest rate, based on the price we agreed upon ($18,300, not $20,470), because they could also get some money back from the bank who did the loan, if the loan went through and I could maintain the loan for a couple of months. Once the title was mailed to me from the bank, I could pay up the balance whithout any penalty and the dealer will get their money from the bank. Even though I have my own bank willing to give me a 3.9 percent which I will use for the new car. Considering that they were asking me for a favor that would cost me no more than $60 (two months worth of payment for the difference between 3.9 percent and 6 percent). I told them that I would do it.
Last night, I picked up my 3 years old son from the daycare, when I was on my way to the dealership to pick up the LX. The young salesman handed me the keys, showed me the car and all its funtions and the owner's manual etc., when we were waiting for the financing department to put together all the paper work for the sale of the car and the loan. By the time I was asked to sign the documents, I have been with my son in the dealership for more than two hours. My son hasn't eaten anything yet for the supper and I was eager to get him home quick, but at the same time I also want to drive back home the LX so that I don't have to deal with the dealer again (taking too much time). When I was presented with the loan document by the financing officer, I found out that the interest rate was at 8.59 percent, not the 6 percent that I thought I would have. That was 2.59 percent higher than the 6 percent and nearly 5 percent higher than what I could have getten from my own bank. Even though it was disgusting, I signed the paper anyway, thinking that I will pay up the loan when I got the title from the bank. I'll come back to the manager and asked him the questions personally. The hell with the dealership and the kickback they would be getting from the bank.
I went back to the dealership and confronted the manager who begged me the day before to carry a loan with their bank, he simply said that the difference would only be a small amount if I chose to pay up the loan with a couple of months anyway. He said that it made no difference whether it's 6 percent, 8.59 percent, or even 25 percent. Realizing that he was not going to do anything for me, I just shake his hans and turned around.
From my experience with this dealership, I would only endorse the Sedona to anyone who are concerned with the price tag for a minivan. You get a lot for your money. But, I would not suggest you go to the Bronx KIA dealership. Most people there are just try to get the most money out of you, and nothing. I am done with them. If you have any questions, I am very happy to answer them.
Thanks!
A few months back, somebody here had posted the same type of problem with the LX and putting captain's chairs in place of the 2nd row bench. This other person was misinformed by his/her salesperson just as you were. I wish you had seen those posts so you could have avoided the headache!
LOAN
You are a much kinder person than most carbuyers! Even though the cost to you will be minimal and you were doing the dealership a favor, I cannot believe they had the audacity to ask you for such a favor. I wish you had gotten them to provide free service for 2 years, or 10 free oil changes, or something like that - something that's a benefit to you but which costs them very little - in exchange for your goodwill in taking a loan that you didn't even need.
The one thing I really hope you made sure of is that the loan can actually be paid in full before the scheduled maturity. I don't know if some auto loans are done in a way that the person CANNOT pre-pay the full balance, but I do know that some mortgages are set up that way. It would be very bad for you if you are stuck paying all of the interest on a loan at 8+%.
Needless to say, the dealer's tactics in boosting the loan rate on you were extremely dishonest and unethical. I presume they were smart enough not to document anything about a 6% loan.
Anyway, keep us posted on your ownership experience and hopefully the loan snafu will be behind you soon.
It would be a good idea to take your story and mail it to the NY Better Business Bureau.
If it turns out that the bank holding the loan is local, I would send them a letter, too. I'm sure they'll be unhappy to learn about the marketing tactics and suggested payment schedule. Somehow, I'm guessing the bank won't care to know it's being indrectly defrauded.
In fact, the dealership may have committed several crimes in the course of this (despicable)transaction. (It's simple bait and switch; there may be banking regulations also.) It's impossible to prove since it's your word against theirs, but, if there are enough complaints, the state will investigate to obtain the evidence.
NY Attorney General's Office
You may not really care about the outcome; however, just like the time you took to post the story here, it will help other consumers avoid the nonsense you endured, and that should be worth the effort.
I don't care how close the dealer is, that is not the way to conduct business.
Pay the loan off and consider yourself lucky. Can't wait to hear your stories when it comes time for service and/or warranty work.
Do yourself a favor - drive a bit to a reputable dealer.
Such violence in the world...can't we all be friends? ;-))
(This from an old Naval Aviator who deals with death and destruction as a business when called upon for National Defense!)
Must honestly say that I haven't done any detailed oil metallic analysis like you guys and read up on Syntec briefly after it was first introduced, not recently. I've used it as a replacement quart a few times when I was on the road and couldn't find M1 at the fuel stop. I usually carry a spare quart, but have been caught 1-2x when Mrs. uses/doesn't replace. It was much cheaper than M1 when it first came out...not true now, so I stuck with M1. Newer conventional oil additives seem to be getting better, and if this IS an oil burner, I'll go back like you did.
I have ZERO experience with M1 in the Kia, so will be watching it closely, based upon your experience. Thus far, my oil is down about 1/2 way on dipstick to add mark, with only 1500 miles. Old van doesn't use any oil...about 1 qt every 10k if pushing it hard. Truck less than that. Just lucky I guess. Like my now tanked mutual funds "past performance is no indication of future performance". Depends upon the engine/vehicle combo.
I can say that in my other vehicles I did get slightly improved mileage when I used synthetics. Concur that it can be more expensive to run. Perhaps it is best to say that in years past, my job has involved extensive travel to foreign lands. Wife hasn't been good at required maintenance, but is pretty good at keeping engine topped off, and I rely upon the synthetics to carry me through between filter changes, even though I'm pretty good at getting them done on time (when I'm around). Any of you guys have the AAA trip tik for Baghdad? I burned mine in '91 and swore I'd never return.
Just to clarify: Our Sedona has been using conventional oil - Citgo SuperGard or Chevron Supreme - not Mobil 1. My Mobil 1 experiment was in a couple different vehicles.
Just checked dipstick last night (engine totally cold - that's my preferred check time) and it's maybe 1/8-1/16 qt below Full dot. Current oil has about 2700 miles on it. So it looks like my Sedona isn't an oil burner - at least not yet. It's strange that yours is 1/2 qt down after only 1500 miles. I think there are variations from one owner to another, not just in Sedona but in other models as well. Many Trooper owners report little or no consumption, but just as many report fairly high (1 qt every 1000 or 2000 miles) consumption. Weird.
$19.97 at NAPA. Had to special order, and was there the next day. Someone else reported getting the filter for $14.99 from NAPA-- must have been a pretty good discount. The receipt showed some sort of $33.xx price, and my price was $19.97. The unit is made in S. Korea, says the box, and is made by Wix, says the side of the filter. I think it said "Wix 542086". The new filter looked exactly the same in construction and layout as the original.
I'm no tire expert, but this wear makes me think the tire is not safe to use. Perhaps I'll see what a tire shop thinks of the safeness. This tire damage will be added to my list of things to have the dealer examine next time I'm there. I expect them to replace the tire free of charge. Currently, only other item on the list is having the keyless entry receiver fixed, with the new grounding plate that others have talked about.
It was nice to confirm that the spare DOES have a matching aluminum alloy wheel.
If anyone wants to drill deeper into the oil issues, the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 and Synthetic motor oil discussions are fun to read.
Steve, Host
Thank You!
My understanding was the finance person at the dealer knows the going rate, or he finds out (by running a credit report or submitting the consumer's app to the bank or whatever) whate rate the bank will loan this person. Then he tacks on an extra amount - maybe it's 1/2% APR, maybe it's 3% APR - and tells the customer 'this is the rate we were able to get for you from the bank.'
That's quite different from what happened to thsu01. He was quoted a rate (6%) and subsequently was bait-and-switched into a much higher rate. I don't know the details - was the 6% a verbal thing (likely), did he have it in writing from the dealer (not likely), would the bank actually loan him the money at 6% (I don't know), etc. Regardless, it's totally unacceptable for dealers to do this sort of thing. And yet I have a feeling that it's quite common.
As an F&I guy, did you do your markups before telling the customer, or did you also get into what I would call a bait-and-switch type of thing too?
I also noticed the rectangular indentations on the tire sidewall you described when I rotated all five tires. I never had a problem with it but not too long afterwards I replaced four of the tires with BFGoodrich Advantage Plus from Sam's Club. They are doing quite well in the snow and are quieter than the Kumho's they replaced.
No fixes yet to our keyless remote system - still using the original remote and haven't had the grounding plate fix done either. The unit seems to work pretty 'reliably' the past few weeks. I.e., it almost always works, but the range is restricted to a few feet from the van - pretty pathetic.
2003 Sedona EX base price $21,585 $19,825
Destination/delivery $595 $595
Moonroof $575 $475
Leather $850 $700
ABS $595 $495
Rear spoiler $170 $140
Marketing allowance $0 $433
Total $24,370 $22,663
My parents paid $21,350 for this van, which included the $1,000 rebate - I thought that was a very good price, although others have reported similar or even lower offers.
The factory-installed trailer hitch is $350 MSRP but I don't know the invoice price since my parents' Sedona was not so equipped.
I live in the Bronx, NY.
Our 2002 Sedona EX does not have the rear spoiler. It was dealer-traded from a dealer 30 miles away. The dealer was willing to give us the same price on a van with the same equipment plus the rear spoiler, but at the time we thought we preferred the color of the other van so we turned down the spoiler offer.
Something must have changed due to the site redesign. Do you guys still have these links within your site, or should I just do a Google search and try to find them on my own? E.g. your posts #252 and 454.
I see the Tribune one is for sale and the Telegraph one looks available for free if you register there. The Independent one seems to have dropped off the map. Tribune Telegraph.
Steve, Host
I decided against the overhead screens, since it limits the already limited rear view.
RE prices I paid (dealer installed on the original deal where I purchased)
Front wind defl. 89
Sunroof defl. 79
Touch up paint 6 each
Keys are 5 each.
Rear mudgard at $89
Not a "great deal" as I suspect he included his installation cost in the deal, but we were supposed to "split" the cost for the above.
More later. I hope to get a Nav system soon.
Preventing stone chips would be my primary reason for having one installed on our van.
navyair - my salesman was nice enough to have a couple extra keys made for me, gratis. Of course, last Feb. I bought at only $1,000 under MSRP, so the dealer did make a pretty decent amount and could afford to throw in a couple keys.
Asked a friend if he liked his bug gard and said "absolutely", that it saved his truck several times (and he has low profile one like the Kia's". That is why I went with it...try something different. Kia also offers the mask on the website if you wish to compare looks for your paint scheme. My friend claims the wind is changed enough that several small rocks have missed the windshield that would have hit it. No hard evidence to back that up, though.
Kia's bug guard looks pretty good on the front. Not sure I needed the sunroof guard, but thought I'd try it anyway. It took around 1 hr for them to install them and the rear mudflaps.
We are looking to buy a 2003 EX in the near future, and your postings have been wonderfully informative - I have read about the last 1,000. Somewhere mention was made of a Kia strike last year. I have called Kia's 800 number with this vehicle's VIN number and found that it was produced sometime in September, 2002. Would that make its production post-strike or pre-strike? Any help with the strike timeline would be appreciated.
What I'm really curious about is WHY you are concerned about this? Do you have some sort of theory that vehicles made pre-strike or post-strike were not made with as much care as other vehicles?
Steve, Host
I have another question concerning the opening that is positioned under the grill and just above the road on the EX. I can see tubing that is unprotected (it appears at quick glance to be A/C related.) Have any problems developed from road debris striking it and damaging it in some fashion?
I shake my head, and complain aloud, whenever I read a review bemoaning Sedona's poor power or lack of power.
If Kia has plans to squeeze more power out of the 3.5L engine, I hope they also are finding ways to keep the fuel economy the same or better. 15 city / 20 highway is a pretty poor rating for a minivan. Personally, I think 17/23 is more realistic rating for the current Sedona.
Having a HP rating above the magical 200 mark and upgrading the EPA fuel economy figures will make Sedona much more marketable, IMO. 195 HP just doesn't look as good on paper as 200 or 210 or more. 220 would catapult Sedona past many other minivans, including the DCX vans and the MPV. Off top of my head, only Odyssey (240) and 2004 Sienna (230) have more than 220 HP.
Gas Mileage: This would really be nice! Kia's Gas Mileage has always been below average...WAY below average, but they still make good cars and trucks. I'm still waiting for that Pickup Truck...I want one.
Now, I'm going to a Kia dealership (Jeffrey Kia, in Roseville, MI, WONDERFUL PLACE) soon, for Body Shop repairs, maybe I can convince my mom to test drive a Sedona and Sorento, and once we get past the dealer, I'll set my FOOT in either of them, and see what happens... They don't let children test drive cars...I don't think...
My question is this: on a vehicle with only 12000 km., and no noticeable "pitting" of the windshield, how does a dealer expect to make an argument AGAINST replacing the windshield? Frankly, my previous vehicle (Chevrolet) windshield had enough pitting to make it difficult to see in bright sun (100,000 km +/-) and never cracked, and my other vehicle (Honda) is nearing the same pitted condition (72,000km +/-)without a crack. The dealer only laughed when I made this arguement.
Other than this, I'm pretty satisfied with the Sedona and the service I've received to date.
paul7324, have you taken the van to the dealer so they can look it over for anything unusual? Keep us posted on anything you find out.
What I'm wondering is: Is ABS really and truly essential?? It seems we could easily get an EX with just a spoiler and stick with the cloth seat package if we give up on the ABS idea. I'm concerned about braking issues, especially considering the weight of the Sedona, and that's what really makes the ABS appealing to me. Am I being silly? Everyone around here has the basic EX that I want, but NOBODY has or can find one with ABS. I've also been offered the basic EX with the spoiler for a fantastic price. Any advice? The deal on the fully loaded EX comes off the table after tomorrow (Friday, 1/31). Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Time is of the essence. This has been a great board for research!!