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Comments
Merry Christmas everyone!
The MSRP is $24,200 and the price I stated [$21,200] was AFTER the rebate [it also includes delivery]. I am not trading anything and the dealer has agreed to 4% financing because I can get close to that at my bank - and told him so. He wants to hold the paper so I'll let him.
That's where we are at the moment - I'm pretty sure I'm close to his bottom line. The dealer told me he has 35 sitting on the lot and needs to move them. Does this mean that I have the advantage over a car dealer???? Feels pretty good for once!
Anyway, my wife took one look at the "magic seat" [it looks like you are sitting on the floor], then the sticker, and went back inside. I stayed a bit, since the frozen salesman with no gloves spent a half hour getting the van open, and liked what I saw. It was nicely done and overall had high quality materials.
However, there was not much of a difference between the MPV and the Sedonna. Two things really jumped out: The shifter on the column looked ridiculous and it seemed much smaller inside than the Sedona. The actual interior numbers are close between the two but in person MPV seems much tighter.
I have a meeting tomorrow with the salesman and the "manager" to discuss price. The sticker said $28 and change - I am not optimistic.
The bottom line is I like them both. However, there is no way the Mazda is worth $4 to $5K more than the Sedona.
I'll let you know what Mazda's "deal" looks like and how it compares to the Sedona.
I have nothing against the Sedona and I think it is a good value . . . but it didn't work for me on several points. The MPV isn't perfect either. There are several things I would like to have Mazda change but I can live with the faults of the MPV.
Just my $.02
The reason we are looking at an ES is that we want leather seating and it only comes on the ES - as a result it's tough comparing the two. But they came down $3,500 without any type of negotiating so there has to be a few more bucks they can move. One other note - I told the Mazda guys that I was shopping the MPV against a Sedonna. Boy, did these guys hammer Kia - everything from the Sedona losing 50% of it's value in the first year to Kia pulling out of the US market and not honoring warranty work. It was pretty comical.
Big_Guy, why didn't the Sedona work for you? What are the things you are not happy with on the MPV? Care to share your thoughts?
The deal for my dad would be $22,863 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,863 final price (plus tax/title/plate transfer).
I don't get the impression that the dealer my dad is working with (in west Michigan) are willing to go much below their stated invoice price.
I would like to know why your dad chose the Sedona over the MPV. I must tell you that the Mazda ES is pretty nice - and $3,500 more expensive. I am going to visit Mazda tomorrow also and see what they can do as well.
By the way, what's a Mulroney sticker and why should I look for it?
Thanks in advance
Any suggestions, hints?
Stacey
Interested in where things go with your dealer invoice investigation. I suspect there are some questionable charges included in there too. I am experiencing a brick wall in that area and am very frustrated.
Please continue to post your negotiations. I was within several hundred dollars of purchasing recently only to have the dealer sticking on what he said was his invoice.
thanks
carsdirect.com - I hope I'm allowed to post this sort of info... Tonight I tried carsdirect.com to see their price on a 2003 Sedona EX with ABS, leather, moonroof, and rear spoiler. I.e., all factory options except the tow hitch. carsdirect's price was $21,349 which compares with our dealer's claimed after-rebate invoice price of $21,663. So carsdirect is $314 below our dealer's invoice price and our dealer's invoice includes a $433 marketing allowance added to invoice but not to MSRP. carsdirect pricing depends on location; I entered my home zip code (SE Mich) and a Grand Rapids, Mich-area zip code and received same pricing.
Also re: pricing, fvp's offer and his dealer's statements seem to indicate a dealer invoice of about $400 less than my dealer's invoice on same-equipped vehicles. This leads me to believe that the dealer in fvp's area (western PA) may not incur, or may not be passing on, or both, the same "marketing allowance" that is shown on the invoice for the dealer in my dad's area (west Michigan).
For $300 difference, my dad won't bother with carsdirect. But if he can't get his dealer to do a deal at invoice ($22,663 minus $1,000 rebate = $21,663 on the $24,370 MSRP EX w/aforementioned options), he might investigate carsdirect.
I did get a "deal review" sheet from Kia dealership and the price is $21170 for an 03 Sedona EX with leather, ABS, moonroof and delivery - no rear spoiler. Add 7% PA and local tax plus $133.50 for plates and the total comes to $22,785.40. There is no "marketing fee" or any other hidden charges that I could see.
I think that's a pretty good deal and don't know if I can work anything else into it. Perhaps 4 free oil changes or the first couple routine maintenance visits free may be negotiable.
The only thing left for me is actually buying and owning a Kia. For some stupid reason, that's bugging me. How about you guys??
P.S. I asked this before - what's a mulroney sticker and should I look for it?
Yesterday, my dad had verbally agreed to $200 over invoice, or $22,863. Subtract $1,000 rebate and price before tax/title/registration = $21,863. Today, without much dickering, the dealer agreed to 'go halfway into the holdback' and offered a price of $21,350. My dad happily accepted.
So if one considers the $433 marketing allowance legitimately to be part of the dealer's invoice price, then this dealer agreed to sell my dad the Sedona for $313 below invoice. Or if you remove the $433 mktg allowance from the invoice, the deal was $120 above invoice.
Either way, I think $21,350 is a very good price for this van, and I was very glad to see my dad finally pull the trigger.
fvp's offer for an EX with leather, moonroof, and ABS for $21,170 sounds almost identical in quality. His quoted van doesn't include the rear spoiler, which is $170 MSRP and $140 invoice. So $21,350 for my dad's deal minus $140 for the rear spoiler = $21,210. So fvp has been offered a very good deal, it seems.
velvet111 and carsdirect - sorry to hear the carsdirect price is higher in your area. It turns out my dad is getting a deal for $1 more than the carsdirect price offered in our area.
Mulroney sticker - hoyahenry has already explained it. "Mulroney" is the more official name. It's also known as the 'window sticker,' 'vehicle sticker,' etc.
As for the MPV ES, the MSRP was $28,500 and included delivery, 4-seasons package, traction control and side air bags, cargo net, in-dash 6-disc CD changer, power sliding doors, bumper step plate and roof rack.
To be honest, I don't know about any rebate - the only thing the dealer mentioned was 0% financing on 48 month deals. He came back with a price of $25K for the van and I haven't explored it any further because the Sedona deal is so good.
He did say to come Monday morning and take it for the day which I may do. The 10 MPV's on his lot looks like they have not moved in awhile so there may be more negotiating down the road if I'm interested.
Still, my vote would be for the Sedona!
I bought my current Hyndai from cars direct and hated dealing with them (the sales person saved the sale really). Tried to buy wife's Honda thru carsdirect and got such poor service I canceled the order after waiting for 2 days on a response. I will not use them now, but am willing to use there price to negotiate with local dealer....except it is not such a good price. Just curious why...
Thanks All....The pricing on Kia's is great info!
If I drive it and like it on Monday [and more importantly, my wife likes it], my offer would be $24K and a low interest rate of 3-4%. If they agree to that then the decision becomes much more difficult.
But I don't think it will get to that for two reasons: 1. I can't see them agreeing to a deal like that and 2. My wife likes the Sedona and can't understand why I want to look a van that's $4,000 higher in price.
We just returned from dinner and saw a couple of MPV's and she was not impressed - she thinks the Sedona looks better. Based on that, I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time with the MPV.
mismith356 - I'd forget the carsdirect and go face to face with a dealer or two in your area. That's what I did.
Thanks for clarifying the MPV pricing. In my book, $25,000 for a well-equipped MPV ES is a good price on a good van, but it's not as good a value as a loaded Sedona EX for $21,300.
As for the financing, I told the Kia dealer that I could get 4.4% at my bank for 48, 56 and 60 month loans. Truth be told, I just picked a number that sounded fair - I have no idea if my bank will give me that. He agreed.
* Minor pricing differences. Base EX price is higher in 2003 but includes a couple items that were optional in 2002, so the MSRP difference on a loaded EX is only $270 or so.
* 2003 EX - Homelink is standard; was optional on 2002
* 2003 EX- Two-tone paint standard; optional on 2002
* 2003 EX - Monotone paint not available; was standard on 2002
* 2003 has one new color - Sage Green. One color from 2002 - Misty Blue - is not available in 2003
* 2003 has struts to hold up hood instead of traditional prop rod on 2002. Nice touch.
* 2003 has remote fuel door release instead of manual notch in fuel door on 2002. Remote release is located on lower left, near driver's left knee. Remote release is nice, but I always worry what to do when it fails and the vehicle lacks a way to open the fuel door manually.
* 2003 has revised steering wheel control stalks for lights and wipers. Right-hand stalk includes controls for rear wiper/washer; 2002 has separate button for rear wiper/washer
* 2003 has changes to various buttons. Interior rear reading light button has moved from left side of the center instrument cluster for 2002 to left of steering wheel for 2003, where the 2002's rear wiper/washer button is located.
* 2003 - I cannot find a way to activate the front windshield wiper electric de-icer. The 2002 has a button on the right side of the center radio/HVAC controls. But on the 2003, this button is non-functional and not labeled.
* CD/cassette head unit is slightly different for 2003. Similar look, but not exactly the same unit. I didn't listen to the stereo at all, so I don't know if the sound quality is similar to 2002.
* 2003 - has an extra black handle for removing 3rd row seats (in addition to the nylon loop strap to fold down the seatback and the nylon loop strap to remove the seats). I'm not exactly sure of the function of this handle, but it might be to release the front wheels from their tracks. My 2002 has no such black handle.
* 2003 - the strip on top of the ashtray cover in front console is chrome with nothing written on the cover. On my 2002, the strip is black and the cover says "PUSH"
I also took another look today at the taillamps on the 2003 Sedona. While smaller taillamps would be a welcome improvement, the 2003 taillamps look exactly the same as those on my 2002 Sedona. It appears to me that no taillamp change has been made from '02 to '03 Sedonas.
Overall, these changes are very minor. Most of my attention is on the EX model, so there may be additional changes on the LX that I am not aware of.
Nice work on the summary - thanks!
Steve, Host
You do the loan app online and no kidding, they call you back in 10 mins to let you know it's approved! The only catch is the loan payment has to be auto deducted from your bank. For us this is no biggie as we pay all our bills online.
They send you a draft (check) and a simple form to be faxed back to them.
I have been very happy them and used them as a tool to negotiate a better rate when we bought wife's honda last year.
27400 for an LX...wow, that sounds high to me. I could maybe (big maybe, and wife would have to beg big time) go 25k for an ES with same equipment as Sedona.
Steve, Host
Sylvia "Ask the Town Hall Hosts" Dec 4, 2002 12:59pm
Steve, Host
I am trading my 2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS which shows dealer trade value of 6800. I owe 9500, so I understand being 2500-2700 upside down and can live with it the loss so long as the van price is where it should be.
The dealer offered 5000 for the Elantra and 22135 for the van (if I recall...wife has paper work and is not home yet). It had everything except the spoiler.
I countered with 21230 (which is 21300 - 70 for missing spolier). I also asked for 6700 trade-in on the Elantra. Then add tax, tag and title...no paper work fees or any other BS add on charges. They flat refused with no further discusion and my wife left. The sales guy was very nice and did the normal "it's the guys in the finance office, not me" statement. The thing is, this dealer had those silly asX add on second stickers and they had market adjustment, plus pin striping, plus fabric protectant and undercoating....total for second sticker add on was 1795!! They must have been smoking crack (does anyone ever fall for that crap?).
Anyway, I will try a local dealer who actually sells Kia and Hyundai in hopes of getting a better trade-in to new price ratio.
If anyone thinks I was out of line or expecting too much, please let me know.
Thanks All!
I used your zip as suggested (49331) vs. 34711 (mine) and fully loaded Sedona EX was 21349. In my area, they quote 23370. I can only guess they have few or no dealer affiliates here.
Add these to your list.
* Colors beige and silver dropped on EX
* Curb weight has increased 93 lbs. to 4802
* Two remotes with panic button
* Portion on rear hatch over the latch in now all chrome instead of chrome and body color (EX)
* There is a cap holder on inside of gas filler door
* Chromed interior handles and locks on sliding doors
* Optional tow hitch from manufacturer
* It appears the optional rear spoiler may be slightly different
The front windshield wiper electric de-icer may activate with the rear window defroster switch.
Take one more look at the taillamps. They are just slightly different. The lens is the same except the backup lights are in the middle instead of the bottom.
If you have a new '03 brochure, take a look on page 3. The sage green EX has an '02 gas filler door. The new '03's door is flush. This one is not. The remote door may have been one of the last things added.
if the discounts and buying incentives like $1000 off will still be available in Jan., will not be available or even if there might be bigger discounts?
There are other oddities in the brochure. I need to revisit to make sure what I saw, but I'm pretty sure I saw a dashboard shot with the 2002 buttons around the radio but with revised signal stalks on left and right of steering wheel.
Actually, I wonder if there were any mid-year changes made to the 2002 Sedonas. That might explain some of the oddities.
I'll take your word on the taillamps. Still, they are big and bulbous; in my opinion, one of the worst-looking parts of the van.
I'm glad to hear Kia added a gas cap holder on the inside of the filler door. That and the hood struts are nice little improvements that show Kia is still looking to improve on the original Sedona.
I need to compare the 2002 and 2003 brochures. I don't see how the 2003 van has gained nearly 100 pounds, since it seems mechanically identical to the 2002.
My dad had very little trouble negotiating his deal. I'd say the total elapsed negotiating time was less than 15 minutes, including salesperson interaction with the sales mgr.
You will probably have a hard time selling your Elantra, and you're likely to get way less than blue book for it on trade. If I were you, I'd try to sell it privately unless you think it wouldn't bring much more than by trading it in. Try to keep the trade-in transaction separate - don't discuss it until after you've agreed to terms on the new Sedona.
All of the above are separate and should stand alone. And all are negotiable. Don't let the dealer mix the new car price and the trade - a common tact. Do each individually.
As for the add-ons: tell the dealer to stick them. That's all dealer profit out of your pocket.
Acording to kbb dealer trade-in value, I should be able to get 6800. And given what everyone else is paying for Sedona's with the options I wanted, I thought they would be willing to do the deal. I was willing to eat $2500 and accept $6800 had they done 21230. This would still give them hold back & pdi (prep)...plus markup on my trade...which they could likely sell at auction for 8K (a total guess on my part).
Selling the Elantra to an individual would likely be hard given that new cars are easier to finance but I could be wrong. 2 prior attemps to sell outright had no success at all (99 mazda 4 door pickup and 00 VW cabrio loaded). On both attempts, I asked much less than kbb.com and nada guides for private sale and was getting quite close to dealer trade-in prices...not takers and very few calls in both attempts.
Anywho...will continue looking and keep you all updated.
My neighbour and I bought our fully loaded EX's at the same time. His dates to April, and mine was built in July. I have noticed several differences between his van and mine, including the location of the rear wiper controls, and interior lights. As well, I have the gas cap holder on the inside of the gas lid.
I'm guessing that they made several running changes on the 2002's.