It's been awhile since I posted. Well my wife has managed to rack up over 17,000 miles on our EX (bought in Feb '02). She is still loving the van and I must say it is a relief to not have any problems on a new vehicle. The only minor problem that could have been major in an accident is that the second row driver's side seat belt anchor just fell off on its own with my son sitting in a car seat. It was an easy fix with a torx bit to tighten the bolt down but I have to wonder if it came loose from the factory or if it backed out on its own (unlikely). I suspect when we had the dvd and flip down screen installed, the shop running the wires might have taken it off to acces the panel but never really tightened it when putting it back on. Whatever the case, it would have been a bad situation if the van would have ever got into an accident with the bolt so loose. I don't want to scare anyone but it might be worth popping off the plastic cap and checking your seat belt bolts for tightness. Hopefully it is not a common Kia problem. Like I said I'll never know the cause but it is fixed now. The EX is still impressive when I get a chance to drive it. I am glad we chose this van to replace our previous Grand Caravan.
Thanks for the update and for the advice on the seat belt bolts. I'll put that on my to-do list. We bought our EX in February also, but you are ahead of us on mileage - we're at 12,500.
... wow no posts for 5 days... anyway... thought I'd throw out this topic.. Mileage.. how's yours ?? ... was ok .. then I went in for the TSB for Cold Start Hesitation in September, ever since mileage has gotten worse.. was around 16-17 mpg , then 13-14.. latest was about 10.5 all city driving.. anyone having this result as well ?? I had spoken to service rep and she said it would take a few "fill-ups" to see change.. definitely puzzled ... :>(
That doesn't seem right. I don't see how a cold start hesitation fix could cause mileage to drop that severely. Not trying to flame here, but I'd make sure you are doing your math right. If those numbers are accurate, then there's obviously something else wrong with your van - either a problem that this cold start fix has revealed, or a problem that the dealer introduced when it performed the fix.
Our 2002 EX has almost 13,000 miles. We are averaging about 19.5 mpg overall. That's on 87 octane. Typically 1-2 adults in the van with 100-400 pounds of other cargo (baby, dog, stuff). Our miles are just about 50/50 city/highway, and most of our tanks are some mix of both types. From what I can tell, on a straight highway tank we'd get about 23 mpg at 75mph. Straight city, we'd probably be around 16 mpg.
I had the TSB done in July - no mpg issue here. One suggestion: tire pressure? The tires won't look flat at 20psi....
Otherwise, I'd seriously consider the possibility of a fuel leak that only occurs while the vehicle is operating (around the fuel pump, for example.) And that should be fixed tout de suite!!!
How much of an effect can too-low tire pressure have on fuel economy? Sedona tires should be at 35 psi. How much worse would fuel economy likely be if tires were at 30 psi? 25? 20? I can't imagine it would make more than a 10-20% difference, even with tires severely underinflated.
Thanks for the replies... my tire pressure is fine .. talked to service advisor.. no "diagnostic" check for this kind of problem.. they will call regional team to see if it's an issue.. claimed that cold weather will effect mileage... dealer said they'd call me back.. we'll see....
horsepucky - unless you start up the car, go back in to get your coffee, and after 30 minutes decide to drive only when the heat is up and toasty. And then you only have a 5 minute commute and repeat the process for every trip. I should say that I do notice the higher RPMs when driving while the engine temp is not registering on the gauge yet. That would tend to lower the mpg for a short period. That said, I had the van in NY in -5 to 5F last winter and got mileage numbers reported here to be about 21 overall - granted before the TSB work.
More oxygen should be good for fuel burn efficiency, but I'm not an expert. On the other hand, the denser air will create more drag on the vehicle surfaces, but not enough to notice in mpg unless 100mph is your cruise speed for sustained intervals. Obviously unlikely.
As for tire pressure, I imagine the drag created by 4700lbs of downward pressure on very under-inflated tires could have a dramatic impact. Not in this case, but nevertheless. I did recetly check mine over the weekend and they were between 30-32 cold all around so I fixed that.
Change gas brands? This is the time of year they change the gas formula. Unlikely, but worth a shot.
Finally, it seems to me that they should be able to monitor fuel flow and/or make sure the EFI is calibrated/functioning properly. That is computer controlled. This all off the top of my head without too much thought on the physics, so it's fwiw only.
During the colder months here in Michigan, I've always seen a noticeable drop in fuel economy - regardless of vehicle. This drop is typically 10-15%. For a long time I assumed it must be that vehicle engines weren't as fuel-efficient when chewing on the colder air, but a few years back I (finally) heard about the winter fuel reformulations.
mfbono, I'm not sure where you and your Sedona are located, but winter blend fuel is something to keep in mind. Still, your drop is too severe to be explained by winter blend fuel, plus you said it's been happening since September which means it occurred before winter blend fuels were even in the fuel pumps (unless you live in Alaska or something).
Even Anchorage uses a winter blend fuel - big time inversions hammer the air quality there every winter (ergo its nickname, Los Anchorage). When I lived there, my winter mpg would always fall over 2 or 3 mpg. The cold didn't help either though I'm sure.
actually I've been warming up the van in the morning before I drive my kids to school and head off to work usually about 10 minutes.. I live near Boston and it's been cold, lots of ice on the windows ..etc. as far as checking the EFI that's basically what I asked.. I haven't been impressed with the service from this dealer.. maybe a call into Kia is in order ? another question I have is do you guys shut off Overdrive when doing city driving ?..
I leave it on all the time. No good reason to shut it off in city driving. My theory: If overdrive is the appropriate gear, the tranny will select it. If not, it won't. I don't know how early the Sedona shifts into 5th gear, but I can't imagine you'd be hitting it very often when doing city driving. The harm would be if the trans hits 5th gear at a really low speed and starts lugging (I think that's the term) because the RPMs are too low or whatever. I'd think that would be a pretty rare occurrence, and wouldn't be harmful in small doses.
In short, very little or no benefit to switching overdrive off during city driving. More trouble than it's worth, in my opinion.
I would guess that the engine is idling at 1000 rpm doing nothing in the driveway. I grew up in Framingham (I can still remember 12/20/80 and -20F high temps), so I know why you're operating that way. By all modern standards, that is the worst way to treat an engine according to what I understand. Everything I've read in the past 15 years says that driving is the best way to warm up the engine and the car. (best, not only)
Whether that accounts for a loss of 5-6mpg (assuming 16 city), I can't be certain, but we know it won't help.
As for O/D, in congested 30-50mph traffic, turning it off is probably a good idea (mass pike/128 on a good day, right?). It's also a good idea on hilly, windy roads, and/or poor traction conditions since the higher rpms will provide immediate engine compression braking/speed reduction when you release the accelerator pedal. Sometimes, a lower gear, like 3rd, is best for snow packed, modestly hazardous conditions.
Thanks for all the replies.. will try to "warm up" engine by driving see if it makes a difference....temps expected to drop tonight to about 10 degrees ..:>)
mfbono, I wouldn't think a daily 10-minute warmup would be enough of a factor to bring your fuel economy down by the huge amount you reported, unless you are warming it up 10 minutes then driving it 5 minutes then shutting it off. I.e. 2/3 of the vehicle's running time is spent in idle and not logging any miles. I'm sure that's not the case. Definitely seems like something else is going on.
bdaddy, your overdrive recommendation seems most sensible and concise. Wish I had said it that way myself.
There has been a similar discussion on the Sorento board and they are saying that you should only shut it off when you are towing or when you are driving down a steep decline. It gives better traction. Go to that discussion board for more.
On steep descents, disengaging O/D allows the engine to perform a braking function. It's similar to a one gear downshift on a manual transmission. With the throttle closed, the engine will have a tendency to return to a state closer to idle RPMs. This will provide _better braking_, not traction, because less actual braking will be required, which will make the physical brakes more effective, and on extended downhills, less likely to incur the affects of overheating.
If the traction is bad (sand, water, ice) neither brakes nor O/D are going to much matter, except ABS which will prevent wheels from locking up while trying to stop. When tires lock up, traction goes to zero and vehicle control is lost until another force is encountered. (With ABS, the tire continues to turn, which allows it to regain traction by momentarily alleviating the skidding condition that eliminates whatever traction is available between the tire and the road surface. I could be wrong, but in a skid, traction is replaced by friction only.
On the uphill, the increased RPMs will put the transmission nearer to its best torque range and without OD the vehicle will not shift away from that when still needed to get the load up the hill. That's where the gear hunting begins.
Traction is a direct function of tire and road surface, and speed. The gear in use by the transmission will have little to do with traction, per se.
" Jondot" thanks for your information Re: my windshield crack in post #2807. I was not on the site for a while. :-(. Great job finding the other posts ( 2513-2519-2624 ) this will be good backup for my support in case I need it. So far so good. I have been to the dealer many times for other repairs under warranty and the service rep knows me pretty well. He looked at the glass a said he found a grain of sand mark on the bottom of the glass. I gave him a "COME ON" and he ordered the glass for me. I must say the dealer has been real good with me as of late. I now have an appointment for Friday or Monday. Waiting for the glass man to call. Once again jondot-thanks and have a great holiday
Sorry for the confusion - our 2002 was bought in Feb. and just turned 13,000 miles this week. The 19.5mpg is the overall figure since we bought it (had 65 miles on it from transfer ride to our dealer). During the first 2,000 miles the van got more like 18mpg overall, if I remember correctly. So if you toss that out, the overall mileage is probably closer to 20mpg.
Ah, I misread you elsewhere - you should be broken in at 13,000 miles. That's better than I expected from browsing the EPA (and vehicle weight) figures. Thanks.
12/5/02, 8345 total miles, 224.5 all city miles on 14.84USG. The math comes out to 15.12. I have another fuel stop coming up; I'll post that in the next few days.
The oil change occurred last weekend after 4 months and 1884 miles. Expect to post the lab results in a week or two. Using Supertech 10w-30 SL dino.
Actually 1300 of that occured in October during an r/t to MI. The daily commute to the office is 8 r/t and I still have the 97 Cav LS for that, too. My wife has a company-provided sedan.
Soooo, we'll probably not make 9K by the one year anniversary, which means we could get 10 years out of the warranty. Trip to FL planned for January; that'll rack em up too. We really got it for the long trips.
Oh, and I only changed the oil b/c the weather was nice enough to fit it in. Who only knows when that'll happen again for awhile?
Ours is one of two vehicles my wife and I share. Other's a 98 Isuzu Trooper. Our Sedona is a daily driver, usually 60 miles round-trip. We also bought it to use instead of the Trooper for our frequent weekend trips. The Trooper is a great vehicle and very roomy, but the Sedona is quieter, smoother, more fuel-efficient, more roomy, and more comfortable.
Our Sedona has logged 13,000 miles in its first 10 months, so we're on pace for 15-16k miles the first year. At that rate, we'll be out of powertrain warranty in 6-7 years.
First of all, glad I was of help to you seeley5060. Got my Sedona 15 months ago and now it has 18600 miles on the odometer. City milage runs between 15 and 16. Highway runs between 19.5 to 22, depending on the traffic and wind; highway speed runs between 75 to 80 mph
Our Sedona is at 19.51 mpg overall, through 13000 miles. Throw out the first 1965 miles, which returned only 18.2mpg, and the overall figure is 19.75 mpg. As noted before, this is a nearly 50/50 city/highway split with moderate amount of people/cargo aboard.
All of the wear metals were much lower and the oil additives (detergents, dispersants and anti-wear) were modestly higher as would be expected of the short change interval. The viscosity comment makes me wonder if the wrong oil was in the wrong package....
"This oil was only in use about half the time of the previous oil, and wear is correspondingly low. Nothing read very high in the last sample (considering it was a wear-in sample), and things look okay in this one as well. Wear and silicon should continue to drop as the engine breaks in. The viscosity was mildly low, reading more like a 5W/30, but we did not find any fuel, moisture, or antifreeze that would have caused it. [Note: In case you're wondering what any means, the readings for these contaminants was officially zero.] It's not hurting anything, by any means. Check back next oil change to monitor wear. 3000 miles would probably be fine."
I took delivery of my Sedona Nov. 2001 and now have 22,000 miles on it. Four round trips Va. to Fla. averaging 2000 miles each trip. I got 23 to 24 MPG. at 70 to 75 MPH. Haven,t checked city milage but don'nt think it's much over 15 or 16 MPG. I'am not sure how long the tires are going to last. At the present milage they look like about half the tread left. Been rotating them every 7500 miles.
If you get 40-50k miles from the OEM tires, I'd say that is probably pretty common. It would be great if they lasted longer, but that's pretty typical life IMO.
I never thought anything as subtle as a set of new Tailights could make a vehicle look that much more beautiful. It's just what the Sedona needed...styling wise. I still think that something, but very subtle, was done to the front end.
Meanwhile, there was an auction for a 2002 Sedona, with over 70,000 miles. Obviously, someone used "Buy it Now" and it is gone...but I found it in my "History" file.
Hi all! Thanks for all your advice on the Kia Sedona. My wife and I are van shopping and the Sedona is naturally on our list. We were given an EX with leather, ABS and sunroof to use over the weekend by the dealer. After putting 150 miles on it, we enjoyed driving it and like the space inside. The dealer will give it to me for $99. over invoice plus $1,000 rebate from Kia. As you know, no other similar equipped van comes close in price. We are going back to the dealer tomorrow and I think we will take the van. Are we in the ballpark price wise or should I try for a better deal? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Make sure you understand what the "invoice price" is. The "Dealer invoice" that you will probably be quoted is about a $1,000 more than the invoice price as computed by Edmunds and others.
FVP: I got mine in October at around $100 over msrp - that sounds like a good deal.
Attitude: The van is great and I don't see million of them on the road like I do the Odyssey - I guess it's simply a self esteem thing. It makes me feel good to think - "I've got this great van and didn't pay nearly as much as you" type attitude. :-) Is it just me?
The other day I was at a gas pump and across from me was the owners of a Sienna and their's was a two tone - same color as mine. Well, I may have been imagining it, but I think they were jealously looking at my van (this stuff can really go to your head). My wife thought I was nuts after I told her that!
We are right at about 1950 miles and I have not been keeping track of the mileage, although I seem to filling up more than my previous '94 Plymouth Voyager. I will check back with mpg as now I keeping track and we are getting past that 2000 mile break-in stage.
We purchased our Sedona in June and have just under 7,000 miles. To date we have averaged 16.54 miles per gallon. Our previous Chrysler Town & Country with the 3.3l engine averaged 19.6 miles per gallon over the 96,000 miles that we drove it. I hope our average goes up to the 17's somewhere by the time break in is complete but we are not arguing. So far we absolutely love the van.
Happy Holidays everyone! I did not buy the Sedona today - I told the dealer I needed to think about it over the next couple days. Here's the deal I have worked so far: $21,200 for EX with leather, ABS, delivery and power moonroof. Add tax and plates for a total of $23,000 out the door. I plan on giving them $3K cash and financing $20K - told them I'd pay 4% interest and they accepted. Any comments on this deal? I had a tough time finding invoice pricing - edmunds lists N/A under invoice prices and the dealers numbers were lower then edmunds TMV so I didn't argue. Sound like I should go for it or do more negotiating? All thoughts appreciated.
Since you're having a hard time finding invoice pricing, you must be talking about a 2003 Sedona, not an '02?
$21,200 seems like a pretty decent price; hard for me to tell just how good without doing more research - which I don't plan to do, as I am already a Sedona owner! It's possible the dealer might go a couple/few hundred bucks lower, but not a whole lot.
Please clarify the options - leather, moonroof, and ABS. Does it have the rear spoiler or anything else? I'm assuming this van has an MSRP of just about $24,000.
Just to make sure - the $21,200 is an after-rebate price right? If the dealer is giving you a price of $22,200 before rebate on a $24k 2003 Sedona - that sounds pretty good to me.
Is there a trade-in involved in this deal? I'm also confused about the 4% thing - has the dealer agreed to provide 4% APR financing? That sounds pretty good.
at 7,000 miles, your Sedona's engine is probably fully broken in. I wouldn't expect to see your fuel economy increase much unless something changes - where you drive, how fast you drive, etc.
At 16.5 mpg, your fuel economy is quite a bit worse than most other folks who have reported here. I hope you are doing mostly city driving or have a lead foot - those are the only things I can think of that explain the low number.
I see very few Sedonas in my area (SE Michigan) and yesterday I was disappointed to see a green/tan two-tone EX. This was the first Sedona I've seen with the same color scheme as ours. We still have an uncommon vehicle, but I guess it's not totally unique. Oh well.
Comments
The EX is still impressive when I get a chance to drive it. I am glad we chose this van to replace our previous Grand Caravan.
I have 2002 Sedona EX, with sunroof & roof rack.
When driving over 70 MPH, wind noise gets somewhat bothering level.
Its not clear where it came from. I have tried removing cross bar in the roof rack, etc. Nothing really worked out.
I have heard about noise dampening materials sticking into inside door panels...etc. Have anyone tried this?
Recent trip from upstate NY to Birmingham Alabama was 2,800 miles in one week -- flawless.
The van has 2500 miles on it. I consistently get 17-18 MPG city.
No highway numbers yet.
Our 2002 EX has almost 13,000 miles. We are averaging about 19.5 mpg overall. That's on 87 octane. Typically 1-2 adults in the van with 100-400 pounds of other cargo (baby, dog, stuff). Our miles are just about 50/50 city/highway, and most of our tanks are some mix of both types. From what I can tell, on a straight highway tank we'd get about 23 mpg at 75mph. Straight city, we'd probably be around 16 mpg.
Otherwise, I'd seriously consider the possibility of a fuel leak that only occurs while the vehicle is operating (around the fuel pump, for example.) And that should be fixed tout de suite!!!
More oxygen should be good for fuel burn efficiency, but I'm not an expert. On the other hand, the denser air will create more drag on the vehicle surfaces, but not enough to notice in mpg unless 100mph is your cruise speed for sustained intervals. Obviously unlikely.
As for tire pressure, I imagine the drag created by 4700lbs of downward pressure on very under-inflated tires could have a dramatic impact. Not in this case, but nevertheless. I did recetly check mine over the weekend and they were between 30-32 cold all around so I fixed that.
Change gas brands? This is the time of year they change the gas formula. Unlikely, but worth a shot.
Finally, it seems to me that they should be able to monitor fuel flow and/or make sure the EFI is calibrated/functioning properly. That is computer controlled. This all off the top of my head without too much thought on the physics, so it's fwiw only.
mfbono, I'm not sure where you and your Sedona are located, but winter blend fuel is something to keep in mind. Still, your drop is too severe to be explained by winter blend fuel, plus you said it's been happening since September which means it occurred before winter blend fuels were even in the fuel pumps (unless you live in Alaska or something).
Steve, Host
In short, very little or no benefit to switching overdrive off during city driving. More trouble than it's worth, in my opinion.
Whether that accounts for a loss of 5-6mpg (assuming 16 city), I can't be certain, but we know it won't help.
As for O/D, in congested 30-50mph traffic, turning it off is probably a good idea (mass pike/128 on a good day, right?). It's also a good idea on hilly, windy roads, and/or poor traction conditions since the higher rpms will provide immediate engine compression braking/speed reduction when you release the accelerator pedal. Sometimes, a lower gear, like 3rd, is best for snow packed, modestly hazardous conditions.
bdaddy, your overdrive recommendation seems most sensible and concise. Wish I had said it that way myself.
If the traction is bad (sand, water, ice) neither brakes nor O/D are going to much matter, except ABS which will prevent wheels from locking up while trying to stop. When tires lock up, traction goes to zero and vehicle control is lost until another force is encountered. (With ABS, the tire continues to turn, which allows it to regain traction by momentarily alleviating the skidding condition that eliminates whatever traction is available between the tire and the road surface. I could be wrong, but in a skid, traction is replaced by friction only.
On the uphill, the increased RPMs will put the transmission nearer to its best torque range and without OD the vehicle will not shift away from that when still needed to get the load up the hill. That's where the gear hunting begins.
Traction is a direct function of tire and road surface, and speed. The gear in use by the transmission will have little to do with traction, per se.
Steve, Host
Consensus highway MPG seemed to be low to mid twenties (i.e. 21-24). Don't recall seeing much about straight city or overall figures.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
The oil change occurred last weekend after 4 months and 1884 miles. Expect to post the lab results in a week or two. Using Supertech 10w-30 SL dino.
Soooo, we'll probably not make 9K by the one year anniversary, which means we could get 10 years out of the warranty.
Oh, and I only changed the oil b/c the weather was nice enough to fit it in. Who only knows when that'll happen again for awhile?
Our Sedona has logged 13,000 miles in its first 10 months, so we're on pace for 15-16k miles the first year. At that rate, we'll be out of powertrain warranty in 6-7 years.
"This oil was only in use about half the time of the previous oil, and wear is correspondingly
low. Nothing read very high in the last sample (considering it was a wear-in sample), and things look okay in this one as well. Wear and silicon should continue to drop as the engine breaks in. The viscosity was mildly low, reading more like a 5W/30, but we did not find any fuel, moisture, or
antifreeze that would have caused it. [Note: In case you're wondering what any means, the readings for these contaminants was officially zero.] It's not hurting anything, by any means. Check back next oil change to monitor wear. 3000 miles would probably be fine."
Meanwhile, there was an auction for a 2002 Sedona, with over 70,000 miles. Obviously, someone used "Buy it Now" and it is gone...but I found it in my "History" file.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875085428&category=6289
We are going back to the dealer tomorrow and I think we will take the van. Are we in the ballpark price wise or should I try for a better deal?
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Attitude: The van is great and I don't see million of them on the road like I do the Odyssey - I guess it's simply a self esteem thing. It makes me feel good to think - "I've got this great van and didn't pay nearly as much as you" type attitude. :-) Is it just me?
The other day I was at a gas pump and across from me was the owners of a Sienna and their's was a two tone - same color as mine. Well, I may have been imagining it, but I think they were jealously looking at my van (this stuff can really go to your head). My wife thought I was nuts after I told her that!
We are right at about 1950 miles and I have not been keeping track of the mileage, although I seem to filling up more than my previous '94 Plymouth Voyager. I will check back with mpg as now I keeping track and we are getting past that 2000 mile break-in stage.
Our previous Chrysler Town & Country with the 3.3l engine averaged 19.6 miles per gallon over the 96,000 miles that we drove it.
I hope our average goes up to the 17's somewhere by the time break in is complete but we are not arguing. So far we absolutely love the van.
$21,200 for EX with leather, ABS, delivery and power moonroof. Add tax and plates for a total of $23,000 out the door. I plan on giving them $3K cash and financing $20K - told them I'd pay 4% interest and they accepted.
Any comments on this deal? I had a tough time finding invoice pricing - edmunds lists N/A under invoice prices and the dealers numbers were lower then edmunds TMV so I didn't argue. Sound like I should go for it or do more negotiating? All thoughts appreciated.
$21,200 seems like a pretty decent price; hard for me to tell just how good without doing more research - which I don't plan to do, as I am already a Sedona owner! It's possible the dealer might go a couple/few hundred bucks lower, but not a whole lot.
Please clarify the options - leather, moonroof, and ABS. Does it have the rear spoiler or anything else? I'm assuming this van has an MSRP of just about $24,000.
Just to make sure - the $21,200 is an after-rebate price right? If the dealer is giving you a price of $22,200 before rebate on a $24k 2003 Sedona - that sounds pretty good to me.
Is there a trade-in involved in this deal? I'm also confused about the 4% thing - has the dealer agreed to provide 4% APR financing? That sounds pretty good.
At 16.5 mpg, your fuel economy is quite a bit worse than most other folks who have reported here. I hope you are doing mostly city driving or have a lead foot - those are the only things I can think of that explain the low number.
Me too!