U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

circlew

GM is holding its own. They aren't building bad cars like they used to, but they aren't stealing the show either.

Excellent summation!

uplanderguy

This isn't exactly a recent article--a year old this very month, on the 2014-model Malibu.

How much moolah is the difference in quality, real or perceived, worth?

It's great to be different.

I admire writers who aren't afraid to speak their opinions even if they differ from the mainstream. The article I posted is nine months newer than the MT article, and hasn't been posted here (and discussed) previously, as the MT article has been.

circlew

The Malibu is a good car. I liked it better in '08.

Still, I would expect much more from GM, but that's just me.

andres3

GM should just rebadge Cadillac CTS-V's as Malibu's and say thank you for bailing us out.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

I came across this review totally by accident this evening, and no, I didn't write it!

Conventional wisdom blown away. I usually enjoy that in most any subject.

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/new-cars/rental-car-review-2015-chevrolet-malibu-this-is-the-worst-gm-can-do-now/

I'm confused. Is the Malibu in the rental fleet a 2015? It shows an ECO badge on an LTZ. I thought the ECO went away in 2014.

uplanderguy

I couldn't find anything online about it, but I think I heard or read somewhere that all Malibus now wear an "Eco" badge on the trunk. I've seen them when walking across a row of them at my local dealer.

jpp75

uplanderguy said:

I couldn't find anything online about it, but I think I heard or read somewhere that all Malibus now wear an "Eco" badge on the trunk. I've seen them when walking across a row of them at my local dealer.

They do, they dropped the e-assist and now have the "ECO" badge on all the Malibus.

tlong

jpp5862 said:

uplanderguy said:

I couldn't find anything online about it, but I think I heard or read somewhere that all Malibus now wear an "Eco" badge on the trunk. I've seen them when walking across a row of them at my local dealer.

They do, they dropped the e-assist and now have the "ECO" badge on all the Malibus.

So then what does "ECO" really mean? I thought it used to be for the light hybrid. I thought the regular Malibu's mileage wasn't all that competitive, so that can't be the reason can it?

Michaell

tlong said:

jpp5862 said:

uplanderguy said:

I couldn't find anything online about it, but I think I heard or read somewhere that all Malibus now wear an "Eco" badge on the trunk. I've seen them when walking across a row of them at my local dealer.

They do, they dropped the e-assist and now have the "ECO" badge on all the Malibus.

So then what does "ECO" really mean? I thought it used to be for the light hybrid. I thought the regular Malibu's mileage wasn't all that competitive, so that can't be the reason can it?

I believe it has the stop/start functionality.

uplanderguy

That's what I think too. I thought that got their mpg ratings up there.

circlew

http://blog.caranddriver.com/base-chevrolet-malibus-engine-stop-start-system-spells-end-for-eassist-hybrid-but-it-could-come-back/

tlong

uplanderguy said:

That's what I think too. I thought that got their mpg ratings up there.

OK, that makes sense I suppose.

Still the mileage is not any better than competitors without that feature.

What I really don't like from any company (not just cars) is using marketing buzzwords to promote features that are basically nothing that special. To me it kind of insults the consumer, as if most people weren't smart enough to know the difference. I see Apple doing that sort of thing lately - pretending their new feature is the best thing ever when competitors have had it for some time ("we have a large phone!"; "you can pay with your phone!". Of course my wife and I both had that on our Android phones well before Apple came out with those features.

For GM, I think it is better if they just deliver the goods as in honesty, great reliable competitive vehicles, and drop the "Eco". Same thing with "Ecoboost" - isn't that a Ford term? How about just "Turbo"?!

imidazol97

tlong said:

Of course my wife and I both had that on our Android phones well before Apple came out with those features.

Agree. I have Android and I see now how it's like the old PC vs Apple computer competition. The PC's were cheaper, more power, more versatile, and had lots of software in numbers and low pricing compared to Apple. I was an Apple fan for a time, then I gave up and converted to PC and never looked back.

tlong said:

For GM, I think it is better if they just deliver the goods as in honesty, great reliable competitive vehicles, and drop the "Eco". Same thing with "Ecoboost" - isn't that a Ford term? How about just "Turbo"?!

.

I meant to do some on the lot comparing today looking for the Eco logo. With Ford the "Eco" means turbo not green. "Turbo" would serve better.

uplanderguy

I drove a '15 Malibu LS with 2,100 miles last evening , from a friend of my wife's. Shorter rear-seat space, although where I had the driver's seat, and where my wife would have it, it was fine for me in the back seat. My wife's '11 seems limo-like in the back seat though. I like the door trim inside of the '15 better than ours, and I like the right half of the instrument panel better, but I'm not sure about the driver's half. The car is wider than ours but not as long.

I did not like the stop-start feature, although I'll assume one gets used to that. I know my wife would hate that. It actually feels like you stall at a stop sign, and the tach goes down to zero, then letting your foot off the brake starts the car again.

berri

I've got to wonder if this new industry response to the government idea of stop and start won't increase car wear over time? Sometimes I think GM shouldn't be so quick to cave into Uncle's nonsense.

stever

Sounds like the implementations are getting better. I'm a bit bummed because the Soul I'm interested in only offers start/stop in the base model.

tlong

A couple of interesting bits of news lately:

1 - Tesla has a Model S that will be able to do 0-60 in 2.8s!
2 - Recent discoveries that Chrysler's "Uconnect", which uses the Sprint network for internet communcations, can be compromised by a person *anywhere in the world*!! Researchers announced vulnerabilities where the IP addresses of these cars can be scanned, and control systems compromised, including deactivating the transmission and engine - even when on the road! About half a million vehicles affected.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Shorter rear-seat space, although where I had the driver's seat, and where my wife would have it, it was fine for me in the back seat. My wife's '11 seems limo-like in the back seat though.

The legroom in the rear seat is larger than the Korean Sonata and Optima. And to clarify, the Gen 7 Malibu had lots of rear legroom, so the "shorter rear-seat space" is relative to that longer wheelbase version which is nice.

uplanderguy said:

I did not like the stop-start feature, although I'll assume one gets used to that. I know my wife would hate that. It actually feels like you stall at a stop sign, and the tach goes down to zero, then letting your foot off the brake starts the car again.

The start-stop in the 2.5 engine is easily controllable by the driver. There are several parameters which have to be met for the engine to stop. I find just letting up to light pressure on the brake pedal as I near a complete stop keeps the start-stop from stopping the engine when I come to a stop sign or a light where I don't want the car to turn off. On the other hand, Keeping a solid pressure on the pedal usually turns off the engine.

However, there are several things, such as an air conditioning setting for max cooling that keeps the start-stop from working. (There are two AC compressor settings on the dash control--a "green" setting which allows start-stop, usually but not always based on AC settings and interior temps, and a yellow, normal, setting which preempts start-stop to keep the AC blowing COLD.)

The start-stop setting seems to be almost unnoticeable in most people's Malibus. There does seem to be a learning factor in the computer which changes as the car adjusts to the driver's style. I have not verified this, but it has been mentioned in Malibu forums. The restart occurs as soon as the brake pedal is released. I have learned to let up slightly before I used to and move my foot to the accelerator giving that 1/4 second for the engine to start. The start-stop is not noticeable for most situations.

Start-stop does not operate until the car has reached a minimum speed, so in stop and go traffic it is not cycling on and off.

It's a very good implementation of start-stop. I think GM deserves credit for that. I usually don't post anything here but I decided to help clarify the 2.5 start-stop quality. I'm disappointed that the 2016 won't have start-stop.

circlew

I wonder how long the starter will last with the new tech?

stever

I read that they just "overbuild" them for the use. The lifetime shouldn't be any different than a normal starter. Be interesting to compare the replacement costs for like vehicles.

imidazol97

stever said:

I read that they just "overbuild" them for the use.

I had read the starter is a tandem solenoid starter. I had trouble finding a definition on the net until this info by Denso (Maryville TN is where the starters for Malibu are made).

http://densomedia-na.com/press_kits/naias2015/technology/2015_Stop Start Profile.pdf

Note that in other articles on the internet, many people are confusing the Eco models with a separate electric motor and battery with the start-stop technology on the 2.5 L engine.

The engine stops and starts on my car and is unnoticeable unless you're aware the car has the start-stop system and are watching for it. When I took the test drive on roads around home, I never noticed it happening. When I got back to the store, the saleslady said that it had stopped, but it is so good I didn't notice it happening.

Frankly after some comments from other brand's owners, I expected to have to find some way to defeat the start-stop on my car. But I learned the trigger switch for brake pressure at the end of the stop lets me keep engine on just by letting up on pressure slightly at the end of the stop.

Interesting there's a pump in the trans to keep the fluid pressurized to assure the trans is ready for a normal smooth takeoff after the engine restarts. I believe there's an electric water pump as well. I'd have to check that.

For anyone who reads the Denso info, they are describing 3 different applications of start-stop. My car uses AGM batteries. One under the hood and a small separate one in the trunk which powers the environmental things in the cabin like AC blower.

tlong

Imid, thanks for the info, that's interesting.

stever

tlong said:

A couple of interesting bits of news lately:

2 - Recent discoveries that Chrysler's "Uconnect", which uses the Sprint network for internet communcations, can be compromised by a person *anywhere in the world*!!.

Anyone here actually own a Chrysler with UConnect that's aware of the hacking stories? Or, say, a Jeep Cherokee?

imidazol97

stever said:

I read that they just "overbuild" them for the use. The lifetime shouldn't be any different than a normal starter. Be interesting to compare the replacement costs for like vehicles.

Looking at a couple of GM dealer sites for pricing I find starters about 80 percent more than the nominal $100-139 for the other engine of similar structure. Sites were sott of discount for A CDelco parts. Rockauto doesn't have them yet from aftermarket sources.

stever

"Good news for Mitsubishi loyalists (and they are a dogged, if relatively small, bunch): the Japanese automaker is not abandoning the U.S. market altogether. “The North American market remains a priority,” the company said in a statement. “We will continue to sell Mitsubishi cars, including current and planned models, at Mitsubishi dealerships across the United States.”

"It’s also bad news for government leaders who for years showered the plant with local and state economic subsidies in an effort to attract and retain a strong manufacturing base."

Mitsubishi Pulls The Plug On U.S. Factory After Years Of Subsidies (Forbes)

uplanderguy

I read just the other day how Mitsubishi apologized for using slave U.S. prisoner labor in their plants in the 1940's. Big of them to do that (seriously).

circlew

Is it illegal to sell "certified" used cars with open recalls?

andres3

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13231584/1/government-says-fiat-chrysler-must-offer-to-buy-back-500000-pickups.html

So the Chrysler lovers out there will need to pony up a bit more dough to cover the bottom line for these things.

stever

circlew said:

Is it illegal to sell "certified" used cars with open recalls?

"Federal law bans the sale of new cars with unfixed recalls, but dealers can legally sell used cars that haven't been fixed." (Star Phoenix)

I don't think any of the states require this either. There's was something about requiring rental car companies to apply recalls at some point, but don't remember the details. In my link, the FTC is involved because of ad claims (you'd think checking for open recalls would be part of those infamous 170 point CPO "checks").

Recalled but Unrepaired Cars Are a Safety Risk to Consumers - Used-Car Buyers Should Check VINs Before Purchase

fushigi

I suppose I meet the description of a "Mitsu loyalist" and am also an Illinois resident. As such I am on the surface disappointed with Mitsu's decision to sell the plant.

Now, it could prove good for the plant. It's been underused for a few years; if a Toyota or other large manufacturer were to pick it up they'd have a skilled workforce ready & waiting and the capability to quickly ramp production to 2 or 3 shifts.

I've been stating for awhile now that Mitsu maintaining manufacturing operations here helps them maintain a sales presence. With that leaving even I will have to think twice before replacing my Outlander with another Mitsu. The product will have to be that much better or offer something uniquely compelling for me to consider it over the competition.

imidazol97

I've watched this topic for the folks posting negatives about GM to post about the Jeep
recalls and the improper or ineffective, at least, repairs done. Crickets. LOL. Just
what I expected.

Fiat/Chrysler of America got the big penalty for their improper handling
of recalls. It's sad to see because
there are so many US jobs and so many Jeep Chrysler supporters.

I hope they can survive this.

imidazol97

fushigi said:

Now, it could prove good for the plant. It's been underused for a few years; if a Toyota or other large manufacturer were to pick it up they'd have a skilled workforce ready & waiting and the capability to quickly ramp production to 2 or 3 shifts.

The workforce in the area is primarily union? If so, you won't see Toyota anywhere nearby.

andres3

imidazol97 said:

I've watched this topic for the folks posting negatives about GM to post about the Jeep
recalls and the improper or ineffective, at least, repairs done. Crickets. LOL. Just
what I expected.

Fiat/Chrysler of America got the big penalty for their improper handling
of recalls. It's sad to see because
there are so many US jobs and so many Jeep Chrysler supporters.

I hope they can survive this.

I hope that they can become a honest, ethical company, with at least an ounce of integrity so that things like this don't repeat and have to be "survived." But we all know they are worse than the Mexican drug cartel when it comes to honesty or ethics.

circlew

I am waiting to see Fiat/C merge with GM.

Michaell

circlew said:

I am waiting to see Fiat/C merge with GM.

Not gonna happen ... FCA has been looking for a partner to merge with for some months now. Both Ford and GM have told them, flat out, "no".

stever

I could see a Nissan/Renault tie-up.

Well, maybe after you got the CEOs out of the way.

berri

I'm thinking the only thing FCA really has any leverage with is Jeep. Then again, recent issues in the press may be diminishing that if FCA doesn't get it resolved pretty quickly.

berri

Well, maybe after you got the CEOs out of the way.

Funny! I suspect that would only happen if one those two was looking to cash out.

circlew

Well, well...looks like my rants regarding GM's pricing has taken notice.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/07/31/buick-regal-price-cut-glams/30922771/

Buick needs a sales boost. With a lineup heavy on SUVs and trucks — industry favorites amid low gas prices — sales have sunk. Sales fell 18.1% in June and were down 6.3% for the year, Autodata reports. The Regal price cuts should help.

But Aldred insists Buick is a brand on the way up.

I'll wager the performance lack will hurt the brand but at least the value is back in perspective.

tlong

imidazol97 said:

I've watched this topic for the folks posting negatives about GM to post about the Jeep
recalls and the improper or ineffective, at least, repairs done. Crickets. LOL. Just
what I expected.

Fiat/Chrysler of America got the big penalty for their improper handling
of recalls. It's sad to see because
there are so many US jobs and so many Jeep Chrysler supporters.

I hope they can survive this.

I think one reason might be that many of us consider Fiat/Chrysler pretty much a lost cause. This latest incident just confirms the poor quality that we already know about. We post about GM because at least we care and hope GM can continue improving, as they've already done a pretty good job so far. But Chrysler....not thinking so much hope there. Even if they really were still an American company.

imidazol97

tlong said:

I think one reason might be that many of us consider Fiat/Chrysler pretty much a lost cause. This latest incident just confirms the poor quality that we already know about. We post about GM because at least we care and hope GM can continue improving, as they've already done a pretty good job so far. But Chrysler....not thinking so much hope there. Even if they really were still an American company.

Good post. Interesting points.

circlew

That mirrors my view. C isn't even a consideration based on past history and future direction. My brother's recent experience with a JGC dwarfing mine with the Yukon in horrid quality, underscores the continuing bottom - quality status (previously sub-bottom). Why bother posting about lost hope? Buona Liberazione!!

GM should, again, have 2 brands. You can see the result of the added confusion affecting Buick and also Caddy.

Chevy for mainstream cars and PUT's, c/suv's, Caddy for premium everything. Chevy needs more performance (SS) and Caddy needs more V and Ultra-Lux. I would have had Impala, Malibu, Cruze, Equinox SS variants in the works in 2009.

Buick will eventually go down in history....matter of time. Perhaps not in China, however.

I know it's not that easy. Just should be the long-range plan, AFAIC.

circlew

Like this:

berri

Once GM feels Buick is established in China, I suppose they could phase it out here. But what do they do with GMC? Moving it over to Cadillac dealers may not fit too well and GMC trucks often bring GM more profit than a Chevy that it's based on, but generally don't have enough sales volume to support a GMC only dealer.. That dealership situation complicates all of this I think. If you dump GMC and just broaden Cadillac beyond Escalade trucks you may risk diluting the Cadillac consumer image?

circlew

GMC is a step up from Chevy so I think that should be in Cadillac.

stever

Funny, I always associated GMC with work trucks - a step down, if you will.

berri

I think GM may have a bit of a conundrum with Buick and GMC. GM has a lot of dealerships in the kind of center of the country, places like Ohio, Illinois, Alabama, Texas, Montana, etc. Many of these states are spread out. GMC trucks don't likely cost much money to the company, but bring in outsized profits. After downsizing brands and BK, GM has often combined GMC and Buick into many of these smaller dealerships. It actually seems to be working alright. I think the biggest issue with Buick in the US market right now is older product. Their main vehicles like Enclave and Lacrosse have been around for awhile. Once they are updated, I suspect Buick domestic sales will improve. I still believe there is a market for upper midlevel vehicles that can provide bigger margins to GM and the dealerships. However, companies like Ford and Toyota are doing well without them right now, which to me at least, brings the Buick/GMC issue back to GM's current dealership structure. As for more Cadillac trucks, I dunno; Lincoln already tried this and it wasn't very successful. Lexus doesn't sell pickups.

circlew

GM Ignition-Switch Review Complete: 124 Fatalities, 274 Injuries

Before creating the fund, GM said it knew of 13 switch-related related deaths. By March of this year, the death toll had swelled to 64 and then almost doubled within the next four months. Claimants will be paid at least $1 million each and must agree to drop all current lawsuits and forgo any in the future relating to the ignition switch. Another 350 death and 3588 injury claims were deemed ineligible, with six additional minor injury claims awaiting final review. The submission deadline was January 31, which GM extended by one month after reports surfaced that it never contacted the first victim’s family.

The company has paid $280 million to victims’ families through mid-July and expects settlements to total $625 million, according to a second-quarter SEC filing.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/

tlong

Tesla Model X due to start deliveries in September. Quoted from an article:

The automaker is also cautioning that any Model X production difficulties could potentially slow the rate at which Model S vehicles leave the assembly line. None of this seems to faze Musk much. "In a choice between a great product or hitting quarterly numbers, we will take the former," he wrote. "To build long-term value, our first priority always has been, and still is, to deliver great cars."

Can you imagine Ford or GM saying THAT about their business?

circlew

Can you imagine Ford or GM saying THAT about their business?

Only if Tesla buys one of them!