Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

abacomike said:

I guess that's what fathers are for - paying the whole tab all the time whether it's for college, summer camp or eating out in restaurants.

Oh, certainly not. We are always battling with my wife's parents in trying to pay the check. FIL always wants to pay. Sometimes I have to intercept the check. And if he ever treated us to a meal for the kind of money you are talking about, I'd feel so incredibly guilty that I could not enjoy it.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

25% is probably about right......I think Florida would be in a lot of trouble without Canadian Snowbirds, might even need a state tax!
Tipping, I tip the same whether I am in Canada or the U.S. usually 20%.
One factor is restaurant workers are paid a lot less in the US than they are in Canada, so tips are more critical. If it is a problem restaurants should add in a tip, or pay staff more.
Canadians are lousy tippers may be true, or it may be an urban myth, I only know I would leave 20% tip unless service or the food was really bad.

I think you're on to something there. When our governor gave all waitstaff workers a 50% raise out of the pockets of their employers last year tip income dropped. Customers figured that since they were now so flush they didn't need big tips. Perhaps your fellow countrymen aren't as astute as you in knowing the wage difference.

My buddy who's a bartender says that the increased wage was netted out by the drop in tips but now his state and federal withholding is higher so he actually lost money.

Our worst ever Ontario government is raising the minimum wage from $11.40 an hour to $15 an hour over two years. Businesses will have to raise costs or get rid of staff. Raising the minimum to $15 is fine, but it should be done gradually. A 30% hike in payroll, equates to a 20% increase at one day care. Restaurants will have to cut staff to stay profitable. Easy for politicians to give away money, when it is the business person paying the taxes that has to come up with ways to survive.

Not raising minimum wage just shifts the responsibility of survival onto the social services net and off the backs of the businesses. It's a direct subsidy to business. Many minimum wage earners aren't kids--they have families.

So you'll either pay $10 for that hamburger, or you'll pay more taxes for social services. Can't win unless maybe you eat at a hamburger joint that the employees own themselves.

I live in Kansas, and the Missouri state line is relatively close. Missouri just lowered their min pay from $10. per hour to $7.50 per hour. Their reasoning is that employers were not willing to pay $10.00 per hour in many cases, and were laying people off, or cutting their hours. Hmmm......

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

cdnpinhead said:

When the minimum wage goes up, the unions love it because many of their wage calculations are related to it. Do you ever wonder why there is so much support, in the form of rent-a-mobs, for this sort of thing.

Either way, a $15/hr minimum wage simply accelerates the use of robotic technology. Hide and watch.

It's not just the minimum-wage people who are affected. If the dishwasher gets a $2/hr raise (for this year -- it'll go up next year and the year after that), then then next people in the ladder want a raise as well, as do the ones above. The net is that these places will raise their prices, use more robotics, or go out of business. The so-called entry-level employees will suffer.

But the unions will have gotten what they wanted. Oh boy.

They keep raising minimum wage here in NYC. I have a guy who works for me I employ (work is too strong of a word) that makes more than MW, so every time MW gets a bump, he gets a raise. I used to have him come in early and have him work every Saturday (for OT). MW raised. We've been slow, so I cut his OT out and only have him working coming in every other Saturday.

Exactly what that UW study predicted.



One more thing and then back off this tangent. As both management and labor I saw both sides of this coin. In my business there was a limit to which I could raise prices on a product. If my costs rose too high I discontinued that item. Capital chases profit and any workers associated with it would lose out. Not mean just survival. When supply exceeds demand wages can't go up.

As an employee in a highly regulated business there was a constant shortage of qualified labor because management refused to increased wages enough to attract talent. Regulators kept increasing requirements but never considered who could meet them. The organization suffered because of it. When demand exceeds supply you have to raise wages.

jmonroe

nyccarguy said:

@sda

I just picked up the Pilot after having the compliance Bushings replaced under Honda's extended warranty. Honda also paid for an alignment.Bill would have been $700.

it drives fantastic once again.

I missed this one earlier.

What are "compliance Bushings" (I hope nobody has already asked this yet. I haven't read through all of the latest posts that I have missed due to a computer glitch) ?

I always get a kick out of the warranty cost repair prices. I imagine they are trying to convince the customer that they are great for doing the fix. They can print anything they want. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it doesn't cost me a dime, it's just numbers on a piece of paper.

jmonroe

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

cdnpinhead said:

When the minimum wage goes up, the unions love it because many of their wage calculations are related to it. Do you ever wonder why there is so much support, in the form of rent-a-mobs, for this sort of thing.

Either way, a $15/hr minimum wage simply accelerates the use of robotic technology. Hide and watch.

It's not just the minimum-wage people who are affected. If the dishwasher gets a $2/hr raise (for this year -- it'll go up next year and the year after that), then then next people in the ladder want a raise as well, as do the ones above. The net is that these places will raise their prices, use more robotics, or go out of business. The so-called entry-level employees will suffer.

But the unions will have gotten what they wanted. Oh boy.

They keep raising minimum wage here in NYC. I have a guy who works for me I employ (work is too strong of a word) that makes more than MW, so every time MW gets a bump, he gets a raise. I used to have him come in early and have him work every Saturday (for OT). MW raised. We've been slow, so I cut his OT out and only have him working coming in every other Saturday.

Exactly what that UW study predicted.

Chances are these booths/kiosks were coming anyway. Unreasonable minimum wage probably accelerated the process, but it was coming. Those robots don't make mistakes, don't forget to key in extra slice of cheese, don't have trouble with accents, don't speak with one, either. Millennials, so eagerly demonstrating against "corporate greed" are also first to embrace them.

isellhondas

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is this really a 1974 Pontiac GTO? I remember them to be built on a midsize body but this looks like a Chevy Nova.

yup. They did the GTO on that body for a couple of years (the Pheonix? The Nova clone). I actually really like them. Bring that green one down here and I would take it in a nano sec.

Really? See now, I think it's just sad to take the GTO name and slap it on a Nova. Add that smogged choked V-8 to the mix and you have......well.....certainly not a GTO!

I wish I had kept my 1967 REAL GTO!

fintail

Definitely, on both counts. There's a shrill subset of the population out there who seems to decry any kind of minimum wage. I notice these are often people who got their start when such wages were, relative to most cost of living factors, significantly higher than today. The "I got mine, to hell with you" set. But ask them, and they bootstrapped and built it all by themselves. Automation has very little to do with minimum wages.

We'll be at a guaranteed minimum income, eventually. They will really scream then. As population continues to swell faster than living wage jobs, I believe it is when, not if. Automation will only hasten the new chapter.

Demonstrate against corporations while wearing Nike shoes, holding an iPhone, and supping on Starbucks. It's not just the millennials, either. Those brave hardworking boomer protesters of years past weren't much different.

dino001 said:

Chances are these booths/kiosks were coming anyway. Unreasonable minimum wage probably accelerated the process, but it was coming. Those robots don't make mistakes, don't forget to key in extra slice of cheese, don't have trouble with accents, don't speak with one, either. Millennials, so eagerly demonstrating against "corporate greed" are also first to embrace them.

jmonroe

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

I was paying for a dinner with family in a restaurant in Victoria B.C. At the last minute I was checking the before tax price so I could add 20% to the bill for the tip. Then I just noticed at the last minute the restaurant had added in a 15% tax. They lose on several counts and I won't go back, the food wasn't great, they didn't mention they added in a tip and I almost tipped on top of their tip, they added a 15% tip and I would have given 20%.

Sometimes we go out to a restaurant with friends who are older and I don't know if they would leave a 20% tip. It seems that a 10% tip is so ingrained into them, that they just couldn't bring themselves to leave 15 or 20%.

I hate concept of tipping, as it is done in the US. I tip, because it's expected and because the so-called employer doesn't pay his people properly. I should not be the one to decide on compensation of the employee. When the restaurateur puts his menu out saying the meal is 20 dollars, he is essentially lying. It's 20 dollars, but he didn't pay several people on the way to my table, so now I have to "voluntarily" pay them. It's disingenuous and deceitful, but because "everybody knows it" (except of course people from other parts of the world, where waiters are actually paid for their job by their employers) it's somehow OK. Moreover, I think the tipping is going to wrong people - if I like the meal, it's the chef's feat, not the guy who correctly wrote the order and brought it to me. Finally, I hate tipping anywhere - I would like to price be price - you say it's 10 bucks, let it be 10 bucks, not 10 plus, plus, plus. I simply can't stand those situations where you pay for some service and half of the time you are receiving it you are being reminded that that price you just paid at the register to receive the service, well, it doesn't actually include the compensation of the guy who is performing the service. (that's how it was during my Niagara Falls sightseeing trip). It's an embarrassment and disgrace that people can call themselves employers and actually not pay people they supposedly employ. I know this view may sound strange to people, who grew up in this system, but that's the way I see it. I abide by the rules, just doesn't mean I have to like them. I would like the gratuity to be what it should be - a token of appreciation for something somebody did beyond some benchmark level I'm expecting to receive at a paid price. Like this guy in a German car wash (already paid properly because that's how it is there) that was preparing my car for an automatic run (presoaking it) well beyond what I thought he could get away with. After I was finished, I ran back to his place and handed him 2 Euros, which he did not expect to receive. That's what I think the tip should be - not an extended hand of an entitled guy doing something he was expected to do, but his "employer" "forgot" to pay him for. Again - I obligue and pay what is expected - I just don't like it.

Here are some fun facts about tipping:

1. In late XIX/early XX centrury, tipping it was prohibited in many US States. Tips were considered bribes then. So never say "it's ALWAYS been that way". No, it wasn't.
2. A famous restaurateur Danny Maier (I think it's his name) abolished tipping in his restaurants. His reason was even more interesting than my view. He said escalation in food prices and other cost created unfair disparity of compensation between the front (paid as a percentage of the check) and kitchen, where salaries are set by the management.

This pains me but I agree with you (I know you're surprised). EDIT: sorry dino, I thought I was talking to @driver100.

I thought I was a dope because I tip 20% on the total which includes taxes. Then I found out that this is pretty much the norm in these parts, so maybe I ain't the dope I thought I was.

The thing that grabs me is all the "tip jars". Talk about sticking your hand out. Don't get me started on this one. :@

jmonroe

driver100

bwia said:

driver100 said:

I was paying for a dinner with family in a restaurant in Victoria B.C. At the last minute I was checking the before tax price so I could add 20% to the bill for the tip. Then I just noticed at the last minute the restaurant had added in a 15% tax. They lose on several counts and I won't go back, the food wasn't great, they didn't mention they added in a tip and I almost tipped on top of their tip, they added a 15% tip and I would have given 20%.

Sometimes we go out to a restaurant with friends who are older and I don't know if they would leave a 20% tip. It seems that a 10% tip is so ingrained into them, that they just couldn't bring themselves to leave 15 or 20%.

@driver, that 15% was not a tip, it was a mandatory gratuity or a service fee. On the other hand a tip is "to insure promptness" or to show appreciation for attentive service, good food, cleanliness and nice atmosphere.

Consider the following case:

In the United States, you can potentially be arrested for refusing to pay a mandatory “tip” as happened to Humberto A. Taveras when he dined at the Soprano’s Italian American Grill in New York.  He failed to leave sufficient funds to cover the mandatory tip of 18%, instead leaving a tip of 10% (the original bill was $77.43).  Taveras stated that his group didn’t feel the food was very good, so he didn’t feel like leaving a large tip.  This 8% discrepancy resulted in the owners of said restaurant, Joe and Tina Soprano, calling the police and having Taveras arrested and charged with “theft of service”.  On principle, Taveras went ahead and hired a lawyer, rather than just pay the discrepancy and fines and fought the charge.  He won without going to court as the District Attorney threw out the case stating that tips can never truly be mandatory, regardless of posted signs in a restaurant or restaurant policy. (http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/09/what-is-the-origin-of-the-word-tip-as-in-leaving-a-tip/)

Interesting. I have to say that if a service charge appears on the bill, I would be inclined to pay it. It seems that is the restaurants way of making sure someone doesn't leave without leaving a proper tip. Fair enough....but, that is the tip as far as I am concerned. I am not going to knowingly leave more of a tip than what they have asked for.

The article talks about people from Quebec Canada leaving small tips, especially in border towns. It might be a cultural thing, I can't find out why that happens.

Also, I have seen places that will say something like this on the menu; For parties of 6 or more an 18% gratuity will be added to the bill. That is fair too, sometimes when there are 6 people they argue over who had what and by the time they figure that out they forget to add in a tip....and in those cases those tables are the hardest to serve....so, not a problem....but, it should be clearly stated - and it seldom is.

explorerx4

To me, it looks like that Nova GTO has had some upgrades. Did they come with the splitter exhaust pipes?

abacomike

28firefighter said:

Interesting talk on tipping. My default is 20% unless someone really screws up. While I'd rather pay higher prices and have it included, I don't see the practice going away anytime soon. 

Going out out with my parents or in-laws, I'll make an attempt to pay but they never allow it. Same with offering to pay tip. But I believe in making the gesture anyway. 

It it looks like having blood work done was a mixed bag in terms of being a good idea, but it's landed me at the hospital for a 48 hour visit while they work me up. I feel like I'm in jail. 

Good grief!  I hope what they find is minor that can be handled by a good dose of IV antibiotics.

I had a fever that refused to break about 10 years ago.  My temps were 102.5 to 103 so they put me in the hospital for IV fluids and antibiotics.  I had all kinds of specialists including an infectious disease doc.  After 10 days and continued fevers with no bacterial or viral evidence to cause the fevers, they got a hemotoligist to take over.  After an ultrasound and a CT-Scan, they found a deep vein thrombosis in my left leg (blood clot).  They started me on blood thinners and in 3 days I was home.  A rare symptom of a thrombosis (clot) is unexplained and persistent fevers.  Who knew?

Just take care and know we are all pulling for you - wishes for a speedy and positive result, FF!

explorerx4

Pensfan83,
I think you just got a Fusion? Did I miss the details?

iluvmysephia1

28firefighter - rest up and get well. Your "car family" is all pulling for you!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

@dino001 - there are some restaurants here in Denver that have abolished tipping, but have increased menu prices to compensate.

That's how it should be. Calculate the price and tell me what it is. I can take it. "Plus tip" is not a price, it's a "starter". Sort of my other non-favorite, dealer fee on the car.

So the doc fee on a car is really a "tip" of $600 for them waiting on you.

Seems that way, doesn't it? BTW, unlike the restaurants, it seems the magnitude is inversely proportional to the price of the vehicle itself. Luxury brands here charge usually a bit smaller fees, while popular brands, especially Asian provenience, are just pushing (or crossed already) $1000.

I'm astounded at the size of the dealer fees in Florida.

Did you have to pay it for your recent ED purchase?

Yes, $600. I would not have to for Volvo - that's a manufacturer-to-consumer transaction at a fixed price. BMW is a dealer-to-consumer, just like US stock delivery. Same rules apply. BTW, I just learned the secret of the discount on ED's MSRP - it's the holdback that's taken away from the dealer, which makes sense, as there is no inventory and marketing cost on the sold unit on the dealer's side, but narrows the spread. That's why they're are so much less prone to discount it any further and getting 2 grand off that price on 4-series is a decent deal - not blockbuster, but OK. Feeds the dealer a saves some money to the the customer. Of course I had to give back the $600, so it's really $1400 off.

This may have been asked and answered before but why don't people just drive one state over to buy a car? At $1000 in Fl. vs $75 in NY I could see taking a road trip.

I don't think the difference is enough to drive out of state to buy a car....and then you will have to get a license and file paperwork etc.


Possibly save $250 but will have other problems.

I know of people who were going to buy an RV motor home in Florida. The dealer also had a dealership in Georgia. Sales tax was less in Georgia, so they did the paperwork in Florida, but picked up the trailer home in Georgia on their way back to Canada.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

Michaell said:

@dino001 - there are some restaurants here in Denver that have abolished tipping, but have increased menu prices to compensate.

That's how it should be. Calculate the price and tell me what it is. I can take it. "Plus tip" is not a price, it's a "starter". Sort of my other non-favorite, dealer fee on the car.

So the doc fee on a car is really a "tip" of $600 for them waiting on you.

Seems that way, doesn't it? BTW, unlike the restaurants, it seems the magnitude is inversely proportional to the price of the vehicle itself. Luxury brands here charge usually a bit smaller fees, while popular brands, especially Asian provenience, are just pushing (or crossed already) $1000.

I'm astounded at the size of the dealer fees in Florida.

Did you have to pay it for your recent ED purchase?

Yes, $600. I would not have to for Volvo - that's a manufacturer-to-consumer transaction at a fixed price. BMW is a dealer-to-consumer, just like US stock delivery. Same rules apply. BTW, I just learned the secret of the discount on ED's MSRP - it's the holdback that's taken away from the dealer, which makes sense, as there is no inventory and marketing cost on the sold unit on the dealer's side, but narrows the spread. That's why they're are so much less prone to discount it any further and getting 2 grand off that price on 4-series is a decent deal - not blockbuster, but OK. Feeds the dealer a saves some money to the the customer. Of course I had to give back the $600, so it's really $1400 off.

This may have been asked and answered before but why don't people just drive one state over to buy a car? At $1000 in Fl. vs $75 in NY I could see taking a road trip.

As you know my last 3 purchases HAVE been out of state. 2 in Ohio and 1 in VA.

South Florida is a well known snake pit for car buying. I doubt that Jacksonville and adjoining locales have the same problem.

jmonroe

driver100

Another problem with tipping is some of the chains kept the money for the restaurant - or owner. I wonder sometimes when I add the tip to my VISA payment if the money ever gets to the server. If I have the right amount on me I try to hand our server the money, especially if they really deserve it.

Some restaurants take the tips and divide the money up at the end of the day, so the cooking staff get some....which is a nice way to do it.

But, when management scoops up the tip money it is wrong....I would stay away from that establishment if I knew that was going on.

fordfool

There was a $3000 rebate on my last car purchase. Now I never paid the $3000, it was just subtracted from the selling price, but I did have to pay sales tax on the rebate. That was $262.50 in New York State. I was sure this was a dealer scam, but a call to the NY sales tax people assured me that tax was indeed charged on rebates even when the money never changed hands. Arrrg.

jmonroe

thebean said:

ab348 said:

Up here, the local rep for the Restaurant Association lobby group has been going on for years about how the govt should have a lower minimum wage legislated for occupations where tipping is part of the deal. So wait staff wouldn't make minimum wage plus tips, but some lower "special" below-minimum wage plus tips. It seems rather odious.

I'd be in favor of a maximum wage for all lobbyists. Something on the order of $2.00/hr and no benefits. Since they serve no purpose at all, this seems to be a fair wage.

You're more than generous. If it went to a vote they wouldn't get half of that.

And you say you ain't a big tipper...just words @thebean, just words.

jmonroe

dino001

fordfool said:

There was a $3000 rebate on my last car purchase. Now I never paid the $3000, it was just subtracted from the selling price, but I did have to pay sales tax on the rebate. That was $262.50 in New York State. I was sure this was a dealer scam, but a call to the NY sales tax people assured me that tax was indeed charged on rebates even when the money never changed hands. Arrrg.

Consumer rebate is just like a soap manufacturer's coupon used a supermarket. You pay tax on full price. Dealer's discount is like supermaket's price cut - tax charged on discounted price. Dealers sometimes use "assign rebate to a dealer" scheme, allowing circumvent the tax issue.

oldfarmer50

laurasdada said:

Hello, Laurasdada here. Perhaps you remember me from such cars as '09 Jag XK or '13 Jag XF...

No offense intended, and I will grant the quality and reliability heritage of the British auto industry. But, from the outside looking in, to me it is ironic that folks that are currently driving GM products are leery of Jag's reliability!

Full disclosure, after 3+ years of no issues, the "Keyless Vehicle Module" did retire on me earlier this year putting the Jag offline for a bit. But, props to Jaguar and my local dealer (i.e. Warranty!) for no out of pocket costs and loaner Land Rovers for that time (and why do they always give the loaner F-Type to the client just prior to me! Same at Acura, the loaner NSX always went to the prior service customer!). XK only had one issue, and it was a recall that the prior owner obviously did not take care of. And wasn't a show stopper. But, soon I will be out of warranty on the XF...

Wonder if the new XF wagon will gain any traction here in Los Estados Unidos?

Who wouldn't want one of these:

Mr_Shiftright

thebean said:

ab348 said:

Up here, the local rep for the Restaurant Association lobby group has been going on for years about how the govt should have a lower minimum wage legislated for occupations where tipping is part of the deal. So wait staff wouldn't make minimum wage plus tips, but some lower "special" below-minimum wage plus tips. It seems rather odious.

I'd be in favor of a maximum wage for all lobbyists. Something on the order of $2.00/hr and no benefits. Since they serve no purpose at all, this seems to be a fair wage.

Missouri legislature just solved the problem. They lowered the minimum wage. No, really, they just did.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

laurasdada said:

Hello, Laurasdada here. Perhaps you remember me from such cars as '09 Jag XK or '13 Jag XF...

No offense intended, and I will grant the quality and reliability heritage of the British auto industry. But, from the outside looking in, to me it is ironic that folks that are currently driving GM products are leery of Jag's reliability!

Full disclosure, after 3+ years of no issues, the "Keyless Vehicle Module" did retire on me earlier this year putting the Jag offline for a bit. But, props to Jaguar and my local dealer (i.e. Warranty!) for no out of pocket costs and loaner Land Rovers for that time (and why do they always give the loaner F-Type to the client just prior to me! Same at Acura, the loaner NSX always went to the prior service customer!). XK only had one issue, and it was a recall that the prior owner obviously did not take care of. And wasn't a show stopper. But, soon I will be out of warranty on the XF...

Wonder if the new XF wagon will gain any traction here in Los Estados Unidos?

Who wouldn't want one of these:

On one hand, yes I would like one - sharp looking car. But, when was looking for my 2015 the Audi salesman said, if you buy the Jaguar you will save $8k to $10k, but, you won't find it handles the same, and you will want an Audi/BMW/Mercedes. He seemed like a pretty honest realistic guy. I tend to think he may have spoken the truth......it makes sense, because if they were that good I think they would sell in much larger numbers....they sure look nice.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

To me, it looks like that Nova GTO has had some upgrades. Did they come with the splitter exhaust pipes?

Yes- it was better to look fast than actually BE fast...

roadburner

driver100 said:

On one hand, yes I would like one - sharp looking car. But, when was looking for my 2015 the Audi salesman said, if you buy the Jaguar you will save $8k to $10k, but, you won't find it handles the same, and you will want an Audi/BMW/Mercedes. He seemed like a pretty honest realistic guy. I tend to think he may have spoken the truth......it makes sense, because if they were that good I think they would sell in much larger numbers....they sure look nice.

Now THAT is a typical car salesman. You should have driven a Jag for yourself to verify Andy Audi's "facts." Care to wager if he's even sat in a Jaguar?

stickguy

it was 1974. Nothing was fast, by today's standards.

roadburner

But it wasn't especially quick by 1974 standards...

roadburner

Tonight my son and I were coming home from a showing of Spider-Man: Homecoming when a guy in a modded diesel Silverado tried to take my 2er away from a light; I figured he was going to try that so I was already in Sport mode. I let him gain half a car on me before I nailed the throttle and it was all over.
To quote Harry Callahan, "A good man always knows his limitations..."

ab348

laurasdada said:

Hello, Laurasdada here. Perhaps you remember me from such cars as '09 Jag XK or '13 Jag XF...

No offense intended, and I will grant the quality and reliability heritage of the British auto industry. But, from the outside looking in, to me it is ironic that folks that are currently driving GM products are leery of Jag's reliability!

Full disclosure, after 3+ years of no issues, the "Keyless Vehicle Module" did retire on me earlier this year putting the Jag offline for a bit. But, props to Jaguar and my local dealer (i.e. Warranty!) for no out of pocket costs and loaner Land Rovers for that time (and why do they always give the loaner F-Type to the client just prior to me! Same at Acura, the loaner NSX always went to the prior service customer!). XK only had one issue, and it was a recall that the prior owner obviously did not take care of. And wasn't a show stopper. But, soon I will be out of warranty on the XF...

Wonder if the new XF wagon will gain any traction here in Los Estados Unidos?

We all have our biases and preconceptions, don't we? There are certain makes that I just won't go near regardless of how good the reviews are or how attractive the design may be. For me these include Chrysler, Jag/Land Rover, and Mazda among others. While my ATS has been flawless, those here know of GG's ownership experience with his. A lot depends upon the dealer and for those three brands locally the dealers all have a bad rep. With a good dealer there way be no issues. Personally, though, I think a GG/Jag saga would be one that I'd be willing to buy tickets to see.

driver100

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

On one hand, yes I would like one - sharp looking car. But, when was looking for my 2015 the Audi salesman said, if you buy the Jaguar you will save $8k to $10k, but, you won't find it handles the same, and you will want an Audi/BMW/Mercedes. He seemed like a pretty honest realistic guy. I tend to think he may have spoken the truth......it makes sense, because if they were that good I think they would sell in much larger numbers....they sure look nice.

Now THAT is a typical car salesman. You should have driven a Jag for yourself to verify Andy Audi's "facts." Care to wager if he's even sat in a Jaguar?

That could be, but, I think I took that into account. I mentioned I was interested in a 535 and E400 and the Jaguar was a possibility. He didn't say anything negative about the MB or BMW, he pointed out their strong points comapared to the Audi A6 I was looking at.

When I bought the E400 I called him to let him know and I said I bought an old mans car. He said no way, the E Class was a really nice car....if you are ever interested in trying an Audi come and see me.

He had no reason to put down the Jaguar so I tend to think it could be true....and he didn't try it, but he had customers who had tested a Jaguar and told him.

sda

When I was at the Acura dealer last week with the intent of test driving a TLX the salesman did his best to talk up how much better Acura was than Honda. He touched on different engineering philosophies and just general nonsense. And while I know Acura has better interior materials, some extras you can't get on a Honda, more sound insulation and the like, his high brow attitude was a real turn off. I would have preferred a more positive approach something like 'As you like your Honda you will appreciate these additional features, details, benefits of the Acura.." and not making me feel somewhat inferior for driving a Honda.

I just wanted to emphasize one word and not the entire post, can't seem to reset it. doh

qbrozen

driver100 said:

On one hand, yes I would like one - sharp looking car. But, when was looking for my 2015 the Audi salesman said, if you buy the Jaguar you will save $8k to $10k, but, you won't find it handles the same, and you will want an Audi/BMW/Mercedes. He seemed like a pretty honest realistic guy. I tend to think he may have spoken the truth......it makes sense, because if they were that good I think they would sell in much larger numbers....they sure look nice.

Now THAT is a typical car salesman. You should have driven a Jag for yourself to verify Andy Audi's "facts." Care to wager if he's even sat in a Jaguar?

That could be, but, I think I took that into account. I mentioned I was interested in a 535 and E400 and the Jaguar was a possibility. He didn't say anything negative about the MB or BMW, he pointed out their strong points comapared to the Audi A6 I was looking at.

When I bought the E400 I called him to let him know and I said I bought an old mans car. He said no way, the E Class was a really nice car....if you are ever interested in trying an Audi come and see me.

He had no reason to put down the Jaguar so I tend to think it could be true....and he didn't try it, but he had customers who had tested a Jaguar and told him.

That was my experience when I test drove a used XF before buying my CTS. I really wanted to like the Jag but it was lacking in pretty much every driving dynamic.

oldfarmer50

Ignore this. Just trying to clear the last post that keeps coming back like Marley's ghost

fintail

You think you have an old man's car, I drive an E diesel - that's an old man's car. And I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes being under the radar isn't a bad thing.

Someone in my building has an F-Pace and has had no issues with it in the past year, which bodes well, but I would still be leery.

driver100 said:

That could be, but, I think I took that into account. I mentioned I was interested in a 535 and E400 and the Jaguar was a possibility. He didn't say anything negative about the MB or BMW, he pointed out their strong points comapared to the Audi A6 I was looking at.

When I bought the E400 I called him to let him know and I said I bought an old mans car. He said no way, the E Class was a really nice car....if you are ever interested in trying an Audi come and see me.

He had no reason to put down the Jaguar so I tend to think it could be true....and he didn't try it, but he had customers who had tested a Jaguar and told him.

fintail

No doubt set to lead the world in socio-economic mobility any day now.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Missouri legislature just solved the problem. They lowered the minimum wage. No, really, they just did.

stickguy

I would probably get any brand if I really liked the model. But some, I would only lease. Usually from a combo of worried about LT reliability, and being too expensive to buy new (and not wanting used thanks to the LT quality concerns!). Jag, Land Rover, anything Chrysler group fit in this bucket

qbrozen

Not the least bit worried about our Chrysler. Of course, we do have a lifetime B-to-B warranty.

bwia

Everybody Lies to ourselves

Interesting comments on buying one brand/model over the other. Just read an article on Big Data -- "Everybody lies" especially car buyers. In surveys, when asked directly what their next car purchase will be, they emphatically name one brand but in fact buy something different and unexpected.

Big data on the other hand does not ask direct survey questions but instead look at our Internet search behaviors and surprisingly can predict with a high degree of accuracy what consumers will buy. Simply put big data knows us better than we know ourselves which is frightening.

driver100

sda said:

When I was at the Acura dealer last week with the intent of test driving a TLX the salesman did his best to talk up how much better Acura was than Honda. He touched on different engineering philosophies and just general nonsense. And while I know Acura has better interior materials, some extras you can't get on a Honda, more sound insulation and the like, his high brow attitude was a real turn off. I would have preferred a more positive approach something like 'As you like your Honda you will appreciate these additional features, details, benefits of the Acura.." and not making me feel somewhat inferior for driving a Honda.

I just wanted to emphasize one word and not the entire post, can't seem to reset it. doh

I don't mind a salesman pointing out factual differences. I begin to lose my trust when they start rolling out a bunch of negatives, few cars can be that bad. The main things that are different are subtle differences, you may prefer and some you don't.

stickguy

They only thing I want from the salesman is a price. And a baseline level of personal hygiene. I pay no attention to anything he says otherwise.

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

On one hand, yes I would like one - sharp looking car. But, when was looking for my 2015 the Audi salesman said, if you buy the Jaguar you will save $8k to $10k, but, you won't find it handles the same, and you will want an Audi/BMW/Mercedes. He seemed like a pretty honest realistic guy. I tend to think he may have spoken the truth......it makes sense, because if they were that good I think they would sell in much larger numbers....they sure look nice.

Now THAT is a typical car salesman. You should have driven a Jag for yourself to verify Andy Audi's "facts." Care to wager if he's even sat in a Jaguar?

That could be, but, I think I took that into account. I mentioned I was interested in a 535 and E400 and the Jaguar was a possibility. He didn't say anything negative about the MB or BMW, he pointed out their strong points comapared to the Audi A6 I was looking at.



When I bought the E400 I called him to let him know and I said I bought an old mans car. He said no way, the E Class was a really nice car....if you are ever interested in trying an Audi come and see me.



He had no reason to put down the Jaguar so I tend to think it could be true....and he didn't try it, but he had customers who had tested a Jaguar and told him.

That was my experience when I test drove a used XF before buying my CTS. I really wanted to like the Jag but it was lacking in pretty much every driving dynamic.

I am glad you said that because it confirms my thoughts the salesman was honest. He treated my other choices - BMW and Mercedes with high regard, said to try them and see, find the one that suits you best. The only negative was the Jaguar remark, and it had a ring of truth to it.

Over the years I have had two neighbors who have bought Jaguars before Tata Motors (how can you have confidence in a company called Tata?) took them over, and they had lots of very expensive problems, both did not buy a second Jag......so that also is a factor in my mind.

oldfarmer50

laurasdada said:

Hello, Laurasdada here. Perhaps you remember me from such cars as '09 Jag XK or '13 Jag XF...

No offense intended, and I will grant the quality and reliability heritage of the British auto industry. But, from the outside looking in, to me it is ironic that folks that are currently driving GM products are leery of Jag's reliability!

Full disclosure, after 3+ years of no issues, the "Keyless Vehicle Module" did retire on me earlier this year putting the Jag offline for a bit. But, props to Jaguar and my local dealer (i.e. Warranty!) for no out of pocket costs and loaner Land Rovers for that time (and why do they always give the loaner F-Type to the client just prior to me! Same at Acura, the loaner NSX always went to the prior service customer!). XK only had one issue, and it was a recall that the prior owner obviously did not take care of. And wasn't a show stopper. But, soon I will be out of warranty on the XF...

Wonder if the new XF wagon will gain any traction here in Los Estados Unidos?

Who wouldn't want one of these:



Can't get rid of this.

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Everybody Lies to ourselves

Interesting comments on buying one brand/model over the other. Just read an article on Big Data -- "Everybody lies" especially car buyers. In surveys, when asked directly what their next car purchase will be, they emphatically name one brand but in fact buy something different and unexpected.

Big data on the other hand does not ask direct survey questions but instead look at our Internet search behaviors and surprisingly can predict with a high degree of accuracy what consumers will buy. Simply put big data knows us better than we know ourselves which is frightening.

That's interesting since my internet searches would trend to high end sports cars and hoopties. I could never afford to buy most of the new cars I look at.

isellhondas

stickguy said:

They only thing I want from the salesman is a price. And a baseline level of personal hygiene. I pay no attention to anything he says otherwise.

With a comment like that, I bet you would just be a joy to deal with!

fintail

My last 3 online car searches were for MB diesels, late 90s era Bentley Continentals (old school) and RR, and Ladas. It'd be amusing what big data thinks I am shopping for.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, but whose lifetime?

bwia

fintail said:

My last 3 online car searches were for MB diesels, late 90s era Bentley Continentals (old school) and RR, and Ladas. It'd be amusing what big data thinks I am shopping for.

Big data is not based on a few clicks, its your entire Internet history. Here a link to the article cited in my earlier post.
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/internet-can-tell-us-really/?utm_source=kw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017-07-06

suydam

Well, last year I was sure I was going to be buying a Mazda 3 hatch. I wound up leasing a Chevy Volt.

driver100

fintail said:

You think you have an old man's car, I drive an E diesel - that's an old man's car. And I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes being under the radar isn't a bad thing.

Someone in my building has an F-Pace and has had no issues with it in the past year, which bodes well, but I would still be leery.

driver100 said:

That could be, but, I think I took that into account. I mentioned I was interested in a 535 and E400 and the Jaguar was a possibility. He didn't say anything negative about the MB or BMW, he pointed out their strong points comapared to the Audi A6 I was looking at.

When I bought the E400 I called him to let him know and I said I bought an old mans car. He said no way, the E Class was a really nice car....if you are ever interested in trying an Audi come and see me.

He had no reason to put down the Jaguar so I tend to think it could be true....and he didn't try it, but he had customers who had tested a Jaguar and told him.

The E Series is ideal for old men who want a luxury car, controls are still relatively easy to use, and it is designed that way because MB knows it's market. Car has pretty conservative styling that won't ruffle feathers, and comfort is hard to beat. Not complaining, those are good things.

driver100

qbrozen said:

Not the least bit worried about our Chrysler. Of course, we do have a lifetime B-to-B warranty.

Lifetime warranty???????????

driver100

stickguy said:

They only thing I want from the salesman is a price. And a baseline level of personal hygiene. I pay no attention to anything he says otherwise.

"Just the facts sir.....nothing else!

Oh geez, did you have a shower this morning?

See ya!"