Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

isellhondas

ab348 said:

isellhondas said:

I've never seen a Canadian car that I've liked and I've always wondered exactly why they felt the need to somehow make the "different"? I know a guy who has a 1954 Ford Convertible, a Canadian model. It looks like they tried to make a Ford ugly by making some strange changes. It has a flathead V8 and a 1954 Merc dashboard! Why?

I've seen Canadian 1965 Pontiacs built on Chevy frames with 283 engines. They look so strange with the wheels
tucked under the car! Why not just leave the cars as is and change the speedometers to KM's?

Back then up to the mid to late 1960s there were significant import duties on components brought into Canada from the USA, so they made do with stuff that was made in Canada and adapted US models to it. Ford and GM had foundries in Canada where engines were made. In the case of Ford they could only make the flathead in Canada in '54 as the plant hadn't been retooled for the Y-block V-8s yet. The same was true for GM Canada which had an engine plant that made Chevy engines, so the Pontiac was a Chevy under the skin. The other aspect was the much smaller Canadian market making it uneconomical to tool up for what would have been small volumes of production, so for example Chrysler Canada used the Plymouth dash in fullsize Dodges in 1965.

The Auto Pact between Canada and the US in the middle 1960s put an end to most of those duties and we started to see mostly the same products as the US after that kicked in.

Thank you for the great explanation! Never understood before!

oldfarmer50

Boy, the Craigslist scammers are getting inventive. One listing shows this picture with the information of a well known local car dealer.



Then when you click on the ad up comes this:



movegorgeous Denaliibolmcluk - $2522 (east greenbush)

2007 Gmc Yukon
condition: excellent
fuel: gas
title status: clean
transmission: automatic
Tilt Wheel

That's pretty sophisticated having one photo appear in the gallery but another when you click on the ad.

bwia

stickguy said:

remember, geely most likely is looking at other markets too, including Europe and China, for volume (and probably going to leverage Volvo for other brands) so the relatively small US market is maybe just "along for the ride"

I agree completely. China is choking on fumes and the government has explicitly stated  its intention to ban gasoline powered vehicles from its major cities. 

qbrozen

abacomike said:

As for a hybrid, perhaps I'm just too "set in my ways", so to speak. I'm an old fart (going to be 73 in October). I've had enough problems adapting to the overwhelming new technology in cars. Now they are asking me to give up smelling those wonderful fumes from the gas tank as I fill up at the gas station.

I'm thinking maybe you don't know what a hybrid is.(?) You still have to put gas in it.

roadburner

I like the BMW PHEVs- relatively quick and you can choose to plug them in or not. My favorite is the 330e- 0-60 in the mid fives and pretty astounding fuel economy if your daily commute is under 20 miles round trip. A salesperson at work has one and is averaging over 50 mpg...

sda

thebean said:

abacomike said:

Just read an article about some major changes coming to the Volvo Fleet. Starting in 2018-2019, Volvo will be producing ONLY hybrids or fully electric vehicles. No more fully internal combustion engine powered cars - just those needed in the hybrids.

Now that is a very interesting and major change in the direction of manufacturing automobiles for Volvo. Tesla gets away with it because that's all they produce - Electric Powered Vehicles. With the overabundance of oil reserves as well as inventories of gasoline, worldwide, I wonder if that's a wise corporate decision. It is obviously a wise decision for ecology-minded individuals and corporations, but is it a wise decision for the brand? Volvo is owned by Chinese interests and we already know that China is not ecologically sensitive based upon its major contributions to air pollution.

In North America, will buyers welcome the change to hybrid/electric or will they look elsewhere for vehicles that come with internal combustion engines? It is my opinion that it will limit sales of the Volvo brand, at least in the short-run.

My thought is that this will further limit the sales of Volvo autos. As if they haven't done enough damage by taking the brand so far upscale (I can never see them competing successfully with MB, Audi, BMW), now they limit their products to electric/hybrid. I can see them vanishing in 20 years.

I don't remember you having a '17 Civic EX-T. I am attracted to the EXL, given its standard features, price. What do you like, dislike about your Civic? Would you buy it knowing what you do now?

dino001

This we will see in a few years, when all development costs will start rolling over to next generation of models. Volvo was so starved and product was so stale that they needed substantial boost on all levels. They got it from the new owner and I think it paid with an attractive product. The next step is marketing and sales - but it starts with product, something "old Detroit" refused to acknowledge, especially on their peripheral brands, like Volvo, Jaguar were fo Ford, Saab, Pontiac for GM. There were multiple reports of American ownership, partial or full, being downright toxic for those involved in 90s an 2000s, GM was reportedly even worse. Essentially no support, unrealistic targets, one-way technology transfers, cultural clashes were common place.

fintail said:

Exactly, that's what I was getting at, and I would hope that operationally, they are turning a profit - I see plenty of pricey new XC90s on the road here. If you can't turn a profit at those prices without including engineering and product development costs, you are doing it wrong, even with the costs of developed/first world labor.

With the product development costs, however, I am skeptical. Of course, Geely can afford it, and this may just be a loss leader time to give it a foothold, kind of what Toyota did in the early days of Lexus.

dino001 said:

I think it's in black operationally. Not sure if the investment paid off so quickly. I talked to couple of Volvo salesmen when shopping for my 430i (ran it against V60 R-Design) and they were quite enthusiastic about the Chinese ownership. Totally opposite to Ford's, which starved them for money for product development. Looking at recent new models, like the S90/V90, I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. S60/V60 does not measure up quite yet, but if they follow the suit in same direction as their bigger brother, it's going to be a real competitor in no time.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

It may happen sooner than you think, @bwia . A sizable number of Quebecois have always wanted independence but those attempts have always been defeated in the past. Now though the natives are restless and are demanding that all govt land be turned over to them, that trillions in compensation for past wrongs be paid, and that they be allowed to govern themselves autonomously, among other things. Many people seem to think this is OK. If that happens, it is likely Quebec will start down the same path and the rest of the country will have to figure out what to do with the pieces that are left.

I would love to unite Canada, CA, OR, WA and NY into a great People's Republic of Canadastan. Our main exports would be movies, robots, weed, water, lumber, wheat and attitude.

I think making and exporting Canadstan beer could be added to the list!

suydam

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:

As for a hybrid, perhaps I'm just too "set in my ways", so to speak. I'm an old fart (going to be 73 in October). I've had enough problems adapting to the overwhelming new technology in cars. Now they are asking me to give up smelling those wonderful fumes from the gas tank as I fill up at the gas station.

I'm thinking maybe you don't know what a hybrid is.(?) You still have to put gas in it.

I still put gas in my Volt once a month or so. And it could be run completely as a hybrid if you didn't want to plug it in. But then I wouldn't have my lifetime 100 mpg.

driver100

fintail said:

Not to mention most things computer or internet-related. There could even be cars.

It's a fun thing, as people are probably as much or more geographically fractured now than at any time in the past 150 years. Not without surprise, I have more in common with someone 100 miles to the north than 2500 miles to the southeast.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I would love to unite Canada, CA, OR, WA and NY into a great People's Republic of Canadastan. Our main exports would be movies, robots, weed, water, lumber, wheat and attitude.

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

driver100

Geely is on a roll....just bought Lotus too. That will get them some good engineering, and Lotus has been developing light weight structures....which should help on the engineering side. Geely has brought a lot to Volvo so far...........if they aren't in the black they must be on track with their plans.

Firefighter....hope you are feeling better. It is terrible to be sick when you are needed at work, and even worse when you start a new job. Hope you are better soon.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Exactly, that's what I was getting at, and I would hope that operationally, they are turning a profit - I see plenty of pricey new XC90s on the road here. If you can't turn a profit at those prices without including engineering and product development costs, you are doing it wrong, even with the costs of developed/first world labor.

With the product development costs, however, I am skeptical. Of course, Geely can afford it, and this may just be a loss leader time to give it a foothold, kind of what Toyota did in the early days of Lexus.

dino001 said:

I think it's in black operationally. Not sure if the investment paid off so quickly. I talked to couple of Volvo salesmen when shopping for my 430i (ran it against V60 R-Design) and they were quite enthusiastic about the Chinese ownership. Totally opposite to Ford's, which starved them for money for product development. Looking at recent new models, like the S90/V90, I think there is a lot to be optimistic about. S60/V60 does not measure up quite yet, but if they follow the suit in same direction as their bigger brother, it's going to be a real competitor in no time.

Well Tesla can't turn a profit at $130K per (high end).

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:

As for a hybrid, perhaps I'm just too "set in my ways", so to speak. I'm an old fart (going to be 73 in October). I've had enough problems adapting to the overwhelming new technology in cars. Now they are asking me to give up smelling those wonderful fumes from the gas tank as I fill up at the gas station.

I'm thinking maybe you don't know what a hybrid is.(?) You still have to put gas in it.

I'm kind of with Mike on this. Yeah, I'm technophobic but the main thing with EVs is range anxiety. I saw a Tesla accelerate like a rocket once and I like that but I'd hate to have to wait 8 hours before I could do it again. I know that's an exaggeration but you get my drift.

As for hybrids, I don't know, seem overly complex and somehow cheating. I could possibly see one if I lived in an urban area with lots of stop and go driving where they shine.

qbrozen

Gotta be honest and say I'm unclear why Ford is getting blamed for any lack of product development at Volvo. Maybe folks forget that, prior to Ford ownership, Volvo consisted mainly of the same single product line for about 25 years up until the intro of the 850 in 1993, then held onto that up until the Ford intervention in '99. It was during the "Ford administration" that they built the 2nd gen S80 with Yamaha v8, the very capable yet overlooked S60 (including S60R), and the xc90 and xc60, their 2 biggest sellers. If anything, Ford saved them because they could have very easily been in Saab's shoes.

fintail

Other than with the XC90 and in Sweden, it might have a tough row to hoe in Europe. China on the other hand, it will be seen as a patriotic buy - I can see that already by what I notice about XC90 drivers here.

stickguy said:

remember, geely most likely is looking at other markets too, including Europe and China, for volume (and probably going to leverage Volvo for other brands) so the relatively small US market is maybe just "along for the ride"

fordfool

ab348 said:

Now though the natives are restless and are demanding that all govt land be turned
over to them, that trillions in compensation for past wrongs be paid, and that they
be allowed to govern themselves autonomously, among other things. Many people
seem to think this is OK.

Would they really be happy with Nunavut, the Northwest Territory, and the Yukon?
Tell them to pack their long johns and parkas. Yum, whale and seal blubber. And
they'd be stuck with their share of the Canadian national debt.

fintail

Unless of course, Geely (maybe with the help of the authoritarian omnipotent government who will benefit from all profits) is helped along and those costs are dissolved by another party. Volvo definitely is doing the product part right, but I recall people were pretty excited at the first S80 and XC as well.

I'd have to think with someone like Jag, that they were such a mess that nobody could really turn them around back in the early 90s. Ford dumped a ton of money onto that fire, and the brand improved, but could only go so far. They survived on a wing and a prayer. I have much less faith in Jag being profitable than Volvo, at least right now. But like Geely, Tata has the cash to spare, and will be too embarrassed to have a quick failure, they will do everything possible to make it work for the ego boost alone.

One way tech transfer, isn't that another name for a "joint venture" operation in China? I suppose buying the companies is better than stealing the IP.

dino001 said:

This we will see in a few years, when all development costs will start rolling over to next generation of models. Volvo was so starved and product was so stale that they needed substantial boost on all levels. They got it from the new owner and I think it paid with an attractive product. The next step is marketing and sales - but it starts with product, something "old Detroit" refused to acknowledge, especially on their peripheral brands, like Volvo, Jaguar were fo Ford, Saab, Pontiac for GM. There were multiple reports of American ownership, partial or full, being downright toxic for those involved in 90s an 2000s, GM was reportedly even worse. Essentially no support, unrealistic targets, one-way technology transfers, cultural clashes were common place.

fintail

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

fintail

But the Model 3 is here, it will save them! Build quality on early ones should be interesting.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well Tesla can't turn a profit at $130K per (high end).

sda

fintail said:

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

Easy now

stickguy

I thought the XC60 was a big seller in Europe?

cdnpinhead

Sad, but true.

ab348

I wish I could trust Jaguar when it comes to quality and reliability. I saw a metallic red XF sedan in traffic today and it literally made my head turn. Just a stunning design, gorgeous car.

Coming back to earth a bit, I was out front watering some newly-seeded lawn today when an Optima sedan rolled up to the corner. Now, I've seen lots of Optimas but this one really stood out. Attractive dark silver paint, not the typical silver, black glass roof, handsome wheels, gray leather interior. Looked really sharp. After I finished I looked them up on the Kia Canada website. Disappointed to learn that this one was apparently in the $38K Cdn range but more significantly it must have been a year or two old because all you can get on an Optima here now is black inside. I see the US site offers some other choices but not here. Damn shame.

driver100

fintail said:

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

25% is probably about right......I think Florida would be in a lot of trouble without Canadian Snowbirds, might even need a state tax!
Tipping, I tip the same whether I am in Canada or the U.S. usually 20%.
One factor is restaurant workers are paid a lot less in the US than they are in Canada, so tips are more critical. If it is a problem restaurants should add in a tip, or pay staff more.
Canadians are lousy tippers may be true, or it may be an urban myth, I only know I would leave 20% tip unless service or the food was really bad.

driver100

ab348 said:

I wish I could trust Jaguar when it comes to quality and reliability. I saw a metallic red XF sedan in traffic today and it literally made my head turn. Just a stunning design, gorgeous car.

I have the same thought....I like them, I just don't know how good a car made in a country with no track record of making good cars would be.

ab348

28firefighter said:

In case anyone was wondering why I've been so quiet, I've been fighting off some kind of virus for the better part of a week now - 101 to 102 fevers all day, barely breaking with tylenol/advil. Docs seem to be confused as to what's wrong and I'm finally going to force them to run a blood panel on me whether they like it or not.

Stay on top of them. I've learned through painful experience that you have to be your own advocate when dealing with the medical system.

ab348

fordfool said:

Would they really be happy with Nunavut, the Northwest Territory, and the Yukon?
Tell them to pack their long johns and parkas. Yum, whale and seal blubber. And
they'd be stuck with their share of the Canadian national debt.

Oh, that last part isn't even on the table. The same with discounting whatever billions and billions we have already spent on their issues. It is all la-la land stuff but a shocking number of people are taking everything they say at face value.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

25% is probably about right......I think Florida would be in a lot of trouble without Canadian Snowbirds, might even need a state tax!
Tipping, I tip the same whether I am in Canada or the U.S. usually 20%.
One factor is restaurant workers are paid a lot less in the US than they are in Canada, so tips are more critical. If it is a problem restaurants should add in a tip, or pay staff more.
Canadians are lousy tippers may be true, or it may be an urban myth, I only know I would leave 20% tip unless service or the food was really bad.

I think you're on to something there. When our governor gave all waitstaff workers a 50% raise out of the pockets of their employers last year tip income dropped. Customers figured that since they were now so flush they didn't need big tips. Perhaps your fellow countrymen aren't as astute as you in knowing the wage difference.

My buddy who's a bartender says that the increased wage was netted out by the drop in tips but now his state and federal withholding is higher so he actually lost money.

thebean

sda said:

Just read an article about some major changes coming to the Volvo Fleet. Starting in 2018-2019, Volvo will be producing ONLY hybrids or fully electric vehicles. No more fully internal combustion engine powered cars - just those needed in the hybrids.

Now that is a very interesting and major change in the direction of manufacturing automobiles for Volvo. Tesla gets away with it because that's all they produce - Electric Powered Vehicles. With the overabundance of oil reserves as well as inventories of gasoline, worldwide, I wonder if that's a wise corporate decision. It is obviously a wise decision for ecology-minded individuals and corporations, but is it a wise decision for the brand? Volvo is owned by Chinese interests and we already know that China is not ecologically sensitive based upon its major contributions to air pollution.

In North America, will buyers welcome the change to hybrid/electric or will they look elsewhere for vehicles that come with internal combustion engines? It is my opinion that it will limit sales of the Volvo brand, at least in the short-run.

My thought is that this will further limit the sales of Volvo autos. As if they haven't done enough damage by taking the brand so far upscale (I can never see them competing successfully with MB, Audi, BMW), now they limit their products to electric/hybrid. I can see them vanishing in 20 years.

I don't remember you having a '17 Civic EX-T. I am attracted to the EXL, given its standard features, price. What do you like, dislike about your Civic? Would you buy it knowing what you do now?

@sda, the Civic is my wife's car (purchased just before Memorial Day, so it's only about 6 weeks), but I have driven it as much as she has.  It's quite an improvement over the past generations, especially the engine.  It is the first turbo I have driven, but I can't detect any turbo lag.  The pick up when you merge is amazing - very smooth power.  The ride is not quite as good as my Accord, but pretty darn close.  The seat cushions in front are a little bit short, but since my wife is pretty short, it fits her well.  I don't have to lower the seat to the lowest level in order to have enough headroom (I'm 6').  The one thing I don't really like is the low roof for back seat passengers, but since no one will be riding there, it's no problem.  

Hard to make real specific judgments after 6 weeks, but nothing has made me regret the buy decision.  I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you might have.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

fordfool said:

Would they really be happy with Nunavut, the Northwest Territory, and the Yukon?
Tell them to pack their long johns and parkas. Yum, whale and seal blubber. And
they'd be stuck with their share of the Canadian national debt.

Oh, that last part isn't even on the table. The same with discounting whatever billions and billions we have already spent on their issues. It is all la-la land stuff but a shocking number of people are taking everything they say at face value.

Didn't your indigenous people prevent Hydro Quebec from completing about half of it's dam projects? Better take them seriously especially if you plan on buying an EV. You might end up charging it with tar sand.

oldfarmer50

Is this really a 1974 Pontiac GTO? I remember them to be built on a midsize body but this looks like a Chevy Nova.

fintail

XC60 is probably the volume model there, the latest data I can find showing it at #57 in Europe, and the brand at #18.

stickguy said:

I thought the XC60 was a big seller in Europe?

fintail

I was teasing, of course I hear things about Canadians here too, but not tipping.

I probably tip more as a percentage when I am in areas like that, but the lower prices might even it out. If the service is fine, I don't mind, helps a little vs the regressive wages enjoyed in such places. In Europe I generally just round up or add a Euro, but I generally eat at inexpensive places.

driver100 said:

25% is probably about right......I think Florida would be in a lot of trouble without Canadian Snowbirds, might even need a state tax!
Tipping, I tip the same whether I am in Canada or the U.S. usually 20%.
One factor is restaurant workers are paid a lot less in the US than they are in Canada, so tips are more critical. If it is a problem restaurants should add in a tip, or pay staff more.
Canadians are lousy tippers may be true, or it may be an urban myth, I only know I would leave 20% tip unless service or the food was really bad.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

Is this really a 1974 Pontiac GTO? I remember them to be built on a midsize body but this looks like a Chevy Nova.

yup. They did the GTO on that body for a couple of years (the Pheonix? The Nova clone). I actually really like them. Bring that green one down here and I would take it in a nano sec.

stickguy

thebean said:

sda said:

thebean said:

abacomike said:

Just read an article about some major changes coming to the Volvo Fleet. Starting in 2018-2019, Volvo will be producing ONLY hybrids or fully electric vehicles. No more fully internal combustion engine powered cars - just those needed in the hybrids.



Now that is a very interesting and major change in the direction of manufacturing automobiles for Volvo. Tesla gets away with it because that's all they produce - Electric Powered Vehicles. With the overabundance of oil reserves as well as inventories of gasoline, worldwide, I wonder if that's a wise corporate decision. It is obviously a wise decision for ecology-minded individuals and corporations, but is it a wise decision for the brand? Volvo is owned by Chinese interests and we already know that China is not ecologically sensitive based upon its major contributions to air pollution.



In North America, will buyers welcome the change to hybrid/electric or will they look elsewhere for vehicles that come with internal combustion engines? It is my opinion that it will limit sales of the Volvo brand, at least in the short-run.

My thought is that this will further limit the sales of Volvo autos. As if they haven't done enough damage by taking the brand so far upscale (I can never see them competing successfully with MB, Audi, BMW), now they limit their products to electric/hybrid. I can see them vanishing in 20 years.

I don't remember you having a '17 Civic EX-T. I am attracted to the EXL, given its standard features, price. What do you like, dislike about your Civic? Would you buy it knowing what you do now?

@sda, the Civic is my wife's car (purchased just before Memorial Day, so it's only about 6 weeks), but I have driven it as much as she has.  It's quite an improvement over the past generations, especially the engine.  It is the first turbo I have driven, but I can't detect any turbo lag.  The pick up when you merge is amazing - very smooth power.  The ride is not quite as good as my Accord, but pretty darn close.  The seat cushions in front are a little bit short, but since my wife is pretty short, it fits her well.  I don't have to lower the seat to the lowest level in order to have enough headroom (I'm 6').  The one thing I don't really like is the low roof for back seat passengers, but since no one will be riding there, it's no problem.  

Hard to make real specific judgments after 6 weeks, but nothing has made me regret the buy decision.  I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you might have.

Bean, sounds pretty much like the impressions I got from my short test drive a few weeks back. Though I was driving a touring, so power seats in that one.

nyccarguy

@sda

I just picked up the Pilot after having the compliance Bushings replaced under Honda's extended warranty. Honda also paid for an alignment.Bill would have been $700.

it drives fantastic once again.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is this really a 1974 Pontiac GTO? I remember them to be built on a midsize body but this looks like a Chevy Nova.

yup. They did the GTO on that body for a couple of years (the Pheonix? The Nova clone). I actually really like them. Bring that green one down here and I would take it in a nano sec.

Here you go:

https://albany.craigslist.org/ctd/6206495053.html

roadburner

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is this really a 1974 Pontiac GTO? I remember them to be built on a midsize body but this looks like a Chevy Nova.

yup. They did the GTO on that body for a couple of years (the Pheonix? The Nova clone). I actually really like them. Bring that green one down here and I would take it in a nano sec.

Actually it was only offered in 1974. Pontiac's PR flacks really pushed how the car was similar in size and performance to the 1964 Goat; while it was true that both cars ran the 1/4 mile in the mid-fifteens not too many people-7,058 to be exact-bought the hype.

dino001

qbrozen said:

Gotta be honest and say I'm unclear why Ford is getting blamed for any lack of product development at Volvo. Maybe folks forget that, prior to Ford ownership, Volvo consisted mainly of the same single product line for about 25 years up until the intro of the 850 in 1993, then held onto that up until the Ford intervention in '99. It was during the "Ford administration" that they built the 2nd gen S80 with Yamaha v8, the very capable yet overlooked S60 (including S60R), and the xc90 and xc60, their 2 biggest sellers. If anything, Ford saved them because they could have very easily been in Saab's shoes.

You make good points with the product line. GM was probably much worse, just looking at the results. I guess it was simply not enough and perhaps lack of clear vision for the brand and marketing support.

driver100

ab348 said:

fordfool said:

Would they really be happy with Nunavut, the Northwest Territory, and the Yukon?
Tell them to pack their long johns and parkas. Yum, whale and seal blubber. And
they'd be stuck with their share of the Canadian national debt.

Oh, that last part isn't even on the table. The same with discounting whatever billions and billions we have already spent on their issues. It is all la-la land stuff but a shocking number of people are taking everything they say at face value.

If this generation has to right all the wrongs committed in history we might as well give up and go and live in caves. We can't right all the wrongs, we can't give all land back to the original owners, we can't make up for people being treated unfairly......the whole issue should be closed!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

fordfool said:

Would they really be happy with Nunavut, the Northwest Territory, and the Yukon?
Tell them to pack their long johns and parkas. Yum, whale and seal blubber. And
they'd be stuck with their share of the Canadian national debt.

Oh, that last part isn't even on the table. The same with discounting whatever billions and billions we have already spent on their issues. It is all la-la land stuff but a shocking number of people are taking everything they say at face value.

Didn't your indigenous people prevent Hydro Quebec from completing about half of it's dam projects? Better take them seriously especially if you plan on buying an EV. You might end up charging it with tar sand.

Yeh, but they also want to stop pipelines too. We may be riding horses soon. :@

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

Isn't about 25% of the FL population Canadian snowbirds who don't tip? :@

driver100 said:

Yeh, I got more in common with the people in Florida than I do in Quebec, except we both like to get out of the cold in winter.

25% is probably about right......I think Florida would be in a lot of trouble without Canadian Snowbirds, might even need a state tax!
Tipping, I tip the same whether I am in Canada or the U.S. usually 20%.
One factor is restaurant workers are paid a lot less in the US than they are in Canada, so tips are more critical. If it is a problem restaurants should add in a tip, or pay staff more.
Canadians are lousy tippers may be true, or it may be an urban myth, I only know I would leave 20% tip unless service or the food was really bad.

I think you're on to something there. When our governor gave all waitstaff workers a 50% raise out of the pockets of their employers last year tip income dropped. Customers figured that since they were now so flush they didn't need big tips. Perhaps your fellow countrymen aren't as astute as you in knowing the wage difference.

My buddy who's a bartender says that the increased wage was netted out by the drop in tips but now his state and federal withholding is higher so he actually lost money.

Our worst ever Ontario government is raising the minimum wage from $11.40 an hour to $15 an hour over two years. Businesses will have to raise costs or get rid of staff. Raising the minimum to $15 is fine, but it should be done gradually. A 30% hike in payroll, equates to a 20% increase at one day care. Restaurants will have to cut staff to stay profitable. Easy for politicians to give away money, when it is the business person paying the taxes that has to come up with ways to survive.

sda

nyccarguy said:

@sda

I just picked up the Pilot after having the compliance Bushings replaced under Honda's extended warranty. Honda also paid for an alignment.Bill would have been $700.

it drives fantastic once again.

Excellent. I was amazed at how much better ours drove as well. Seems more responsive, tighter and tracks better.

nyccarguy

sda said:

nyccarguy said:

@sda

I just picked up the Pilot after having the compliance Bushings replaced under Honda's extended warranty. Honda also paid for an alignment.Bill would have been $700.

it drives fantastic once again.

Excellent. I was amazed at how much better ours drove as well. Seems more responsive, tighter and tracks better.

Thanks again for the heads up about that. It drives like it has 15,000 miles on it instead of close to 95,000.

driver100

I was paying for a dinner with family in a restaurant in Victoria B.C. At the last minute I was checking the before tax price so I could add 20% to the bill for the tip. Then I just noticed at the last minute the restaurant had added in a 15% tax. They lose on several counts and I won't go back, the food wasn't great, they didn't mention they added in a tip and I almost tipped on top of their tip, they added a 15% tip and I would have given 20%.

Sometimes we go out to a restaurant with friends who are older and I don't know if they would leave a 20% tip. It seems that a 10% tip is so ingrained into them, that they just couldn't bring themselves to leave 15 or 20%.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

It may happen sooner than you think, @bwia . A sizable number of Quebecois have always wanted independence but those attempts have always been defeated in the past. Now though the natives are restless and are demanding that all govt land be turned over to them, that trillions in compensation for past wrongs be paid, and that they be allowed to govern themselves autonomously, among other things. Many people seem to think this is OK. If that happens, it is likely Quebec will start down the same path and the rest of the country will have to figure out what to do with the pieces that are left.

I would love to unite Canada, CA, OR, WA and NY into a great People's Republic of Canadastan. Our main exports would be movies, robots, weed, water, lumber, wheat and attitude.

Mr_Shiftright said:

ab348 said:

It may happen sooner than you think, @bwia . A sizable number of Quebecois have always wanted independence but those attempts have always been defeated in the past. Now though the natives are restless and are demanding that all govt land be turned over to them, that trillions in compensation for past wrongs be paid, and that they be allowed to govern themselves autonomously, among other things. Many people seem to think this is OK. If that happens, it is likely Quebec will start down the same path and the rest of the country will have to figure out what to do with the pieces that are left.

I would love to unite Canada, CA, OR, WA and NY into a great People's Republic of Canadastan. Our main exports would be movies, robots, weed, water, lumber, wheat and attitude.

You have my vote of approval !

dino001

driver100 said:

I was paying for a dinner with family in a restaurant in Victoria B.C. At the last minute I was checking the before tax price so I could add 20% to the bill for the tip. Then I just noticed at the last minute the restaurant had added in a 15% tax. They lose on several counts and I won't go back, the food wasn't great, they didn't mention they added in a tip and I almost tipped on top of their tip, they added a 15% tip and I would have given 20%.

Sometimes we go out to a restaurant with friends who are older and I don't know if they would leave a 20% tip. It seems that a 10% tip is so ingrained into them, that they just couldn't bring themselves to leave 15 or 20%.

I hate concept of tipping, as it is done in the US. I tip, because it's expected and because the so-called employer doesn't pay his people properly. I should not be the one to decide on compensation of the employee. When the restaurateur puts his menu out saying the meal is 20 dollars, he is essentially lying. It's 20 dollars, but he didn't pay several people on the way to my table, so now I have to "voluntarily" pay them. It's disingenuous and deceitful, but because "everybody knows it" (except of course people from other parts of the world, where waiters are actually paid for their job by their employers) it's somehow OK. Moreover, I think the tipping is going to wrong people - if I like the meal, it's the chef's feat, not the guy who correctly wrote the order and brought it to me. Finally, I hate tipping anywhere - I would like to price be price - you say it's 10 bucks, let it be 10 bucks, not 10 plus, plus, plus. I simply can't stand those situations where you pay for some service and half of the time you are receiving it you are being reminded that that price you just paid at the register to receive the service, well, it doesn't actually include the compensation of the guy who is performing the service. (that's how it was during my Niagara Falls sightseeing trip). It's an embarrassment and disgrace that people can call themselves employers and actually not pay people they supposedly employ. I know this view may sound strange to people, who grew up in this system, but that's the way I see it. I abide by the rules, just doesn't mean I have to like them. I would like the gratuity to be what it should be - a token of appreciation for something somebody did beyond some benchmark level I'm expecting to receive at a paid price. Like this guy in a German car wash (already paid properly because that's how it is there) that was preparing my car for an automatic run (presoaking it) well beyond what I thought he could get away with. After I was finished, I ran back to his place and handed him 2 Euros, which he did not expect to receive. That's what I think the tip should be - not an extended hand of an entitled guy doing something he was expected to do, but his "employer" "forgot" to pay him for. Again - I obligue and pay what is expected - I just don't like it.

Here are some fun facts about tipping:

1. In late XIX/early XX centrury, tipping it was prohibited in many US States. Tips were considered bribes then. So never say "it's ALWAYS been that way". No, it wasn't.
2. A famous restaurateur Danny Maier (I think it's his name) abolished tipping in his restaurants. His reason was even more interesting than my view. He said escalation in food prices and other cost created unfair disparity of compensation between the front (paid as a percentage of the check) and kitchen, where salaries are set by the management.

dino001

stickguy said:

I thought the XC60 was a big seller in Europe?

"Big seller" is a relative term. Most European vehicles sales are in compact and subcompact size (Golf, Focus and smaller), with some differences between countries (e.g. Italians go smaller, Germans buy more mid-sized). You'd have to judge XC60 against its peers and expectation, not actual numbers of other types of vehicles, to say whether it's a "big seller" or not.

fintail

Kind of reminds me how listed prices of an item on a shelf in Europe always include tax, but here, tax is a "gotcha" added at the register.

If minimum wage had kept up with CPI/inflation indices since the zenith of the middle class in ~1968, there might be more of a European style tipping culture. I think the 15-20% "rule" is something that has really became a rule in the past 30 or so years, as things have trickled down.

dino001 said:

I hate concept of tipping, as it is done in the US. I tip, because it's expected and because the so-called employer doesn't pay his people properly. I should not be the one to decide on compensation of the employee. When the restaurateur puts his menu out saying the meal is 20 dollars, he is essentially lying.

Michaell

@dino001 - there are some restaurants here in Denver that have abolished tipping, but have increased menu prices to compensate.