Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fintail

That might be it. Want to find the lowest optioned premium brand cars that exist? Go to Hertz. A 300 I rented last year had literally zero options, and their luxury cars can be found like this too. I turned up my nose at an upgrade to a Q50 2.0 that was also void of options, and was kind of beat. I am sure the Model S in their fleet (yes, they have them) are probably the P60 or whatever the base model is called.

Funny thing, go to Europe, and rentals tend to be much better equipped.

andres3 said:

Maybe some Hertz premium line specials will opt for the $35K package.

fintail

You showed restraint not hitting the horn. Sometimes it is hard to control myself

oldfarmer50 said:

Speaking of phone yappers today at the Meglo Mart my wife and I were held up by a woman who was backed half way out into the isle, backup lights on and stopped. I didn't want to try to go past her in case she suddenly started moving.

As I'm sitting there another woman walks past the first woman's car and looks over at me and mimes "on the phone". We both shook our heads as she continued to her car and I gingerly drove around the clueless talker.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

isellhondas said:

It was a parking "stoop" - you know when you pull into a parking space down here, you pull into the spot and there is a concrete stump where your front tires lean against.  I just wasn't paying attention as I walked in front of my car and tripped over the stump on the other lane.

We watched a lady walk over one of the concrete stop blocks at ChickFilA a couple years back. She went down like a rock. Scraped leg. Sat on a chair in the handicapped parking space for about 15 minutes before she decided to go on. Was leaving to go to Akron or somewhere for a ceremony or wedding or something with some other people. Tough luck to trip like that.

Call 1-800-GARY

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

Interesting comments. I saw a guy at the supermarket the other day, he was driving an older Buick. He backed out of his space, then went forward, not realizing he was on an end and there was a cement island in front of him. He rammed the front bumper right into the cement island. My wife asked me if I thought he was an older guy? I said, well it is a Buick, so my guess is I would bet on it. I saw the side view and he could barely see over the instrument panel, and he was a very senior citizen.

The new car looks nice, we know they are very reliable, it is big, and there is definitely an image problem.

If that driver had been driving a XYZ vehicle would the story have been interesting enough to retell? "I saw a driver in a few years old Mercedes pull forward and hit the cement island in front of him" and associate the car with his age and vision problems?

This was 2014...Buick owners age has dropped to 57 probably because of small SUV,

These are the cars with the oldest buyers.

1. Lincoln

> Avg. age of buyer: 61.0 years
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 81,694
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): -0.6%



2. Buick

> Avg. age of buyer: 60.3 years
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 205,509
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): 13.9%

With an average customer age of 60.3 years, Buick's clientele is older than that of any other non-luxury vehicle. Buick has struggled more than other brands to move away from its image as an older driver's brand. Still, Buick has been successfully improving its brand by adding cars that appeal more to younger buyers, according to Brauer. Two SUVs, the full-size Enclave and compact Encore, have done particularly well, Brauer said. Additionally, while Buick is not considered a luxury brand, its latest Regal model may provide a more affordable alternative to BMW and Mercedes-Benz sedans.


3. Bugatti

> Avg. age of buyer: 59.5 years (tied-3rd highest)
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 1
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): -50.0%

Super-car maker Bugatti's target market is already extremely exclusive. The high age of the brand's customer is likely less a question of preference and more an issue of accessibility. Car and Driver describes the target customer of a Bugatti Veyron, with its estimated price tag of nearly $2 million, as "those with all the money in the world and a desire to go blisteringly fast.


4. Cadillac

> Avg. age of buyer: 59.5 years (tied-3rd highest)
> 2013 U.S. unit sales: 182,543
> Unit sales pct. chg. (2012-2013): 21.9%

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

driver100

Just reporting the facts:

When compared to the same month a year ago, General Motors Co.’s July sales fell 15.4 percent — the largest decline of the Detroit Three. Sales at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles fell 10 percent, and Ford Motor Co.’s sales slid 7.5 percent in that same time, the companies reported Tuesday. All were larger declines that analysts expected.

In North America, all of GM’s brands saw significant year-over-year declines including Buick dropping 30.5 percent; Cadillac declining 21.7 percent; Chevrolet falling 15.3 percent and GMC dropping 7.3 percent from July 2016

venture

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

iluvmysephia1

Hey - abacomike - take good care of yourself, get some good rest - watch some good mysteries on TV and get to feeling better. I'm so sorry that fall happened to you. Falls are nasty. When I was just about ta go through the last several months of college in Rolla, MO, Mrs. iluvmysephia1 and I lived in a townhouse apartment in St. James, MO.

Mrs.iluvmysephia called me from downstairs to tell me it was dinnertime. I was starving - it was December of 2004 and I was really hungry for some reason. I grabbed up our 7 pound Pomeranian Rocky and cradled him into my arm and sort of skip-stepped in my stocking feet down the carpeted stairway towards dinner downstairs. All of a sudden I lost my footing and my butt hit the edge of one of the steps and at the same time I flung the Pom instinctively behind me so I wouldn't crush him with my 200-lb. body. Rocky didn't yelp so I knew right away he was OK. But I was not. At the same time my foot slipped on the stair, my right arm came down on the edge of a stair and cracked - I could hear it. And it broke. I butt-skipped all the stairs on the way down and everything went black and I did see stars.

I sat there on by butt at the bottom of the stairs and my arm just ached so badly - I got nausea from the pain. I yelled for my wife for help - I hurt badly. We decided to call a cab for a ride to the hospital so I could get that pup set. I asked him to please don't hit any bumps hard - my arm was really hurting. He cooperated and I headed into the ER for treatment. I got it set and then the next day I took their referral card for a Rolla bone doctor. He was a good 'ole bone doctor and I went the cheap route - the arm was casted with some physical therapy and exercises - so it wasn't operated on to set everything correctly and have pins inserted. But it was fine. What happened at college was I had to sit out about two months of clinicals in the local hospitals we practiced in - but I kept going to the regular respiratory therapy classes. I graduated with my class in early March of 2005, but I had to do about two more months of clinicals or my teachers wouldn't sign me off on the skills list. I don't blame them - with a broken right arm I couldn't keep up with all of the skills. So I had a tough start to my respiratory therapy career. Falls are bad - really dangerous.

Hope you feel better soon, Mike.

stickguy

venture said:

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

yes, there is an OEM short shift kit available. Right on the options section of the "build your own" page of the website.

roadburner

venture said:

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

I really liked the STI, but in the end it was too similar to my modded MS3. It was a bit quicker but not enough to make me pull the trigger.

andres3

explorerx4 said:

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

Audi has been selling between 18,000-20,000 vehicles per month the last few months based on data I just Googled. While those are good numbers, I have a feeling Ford sells a whole lot more.

Checking Edmunds, the last Rabbit sold in the US was at least 8 years ago. I'd be willing to buy an un-glorified Rabbit if I could push a button to get 60% rear-biased AWD with a 4.5 second 0-60 launch time stock. Not even the Golf R could do that from the best I could tell.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

Oh burn!!

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

That might be it. Want to find the lowest optioned premium brand cars that exist? Go to Hertz. A 300 I rented last year had literally zero options, and their luxury cars can be found like this too. I turned up my nose at an upgrade to a Q50 2.0 that was also void of options, and was kind of beat. I am sure the Model S in their fleet (yes, they have them) are probably the P60 or whatever the base model is called.

Funny thing, go to Europe, and rentals tend to be much better equipped.

andres3 said:

Maybe some Hertz premium line specials will opt for the $35K package.

Considering the return you get on expensive options when you trade, buying strippers might make good economic sense for Hertz. Run any car through the Edmunds appraiser and see how much that $2000 navigation or blind spot monitor gets you.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

You showed restraint not hitting the horn. Sometimes it is hard to control myself

oldfarmer50 said:

Speaking of phone yappers today at the Meglo Mart my wife and I were held up by a woman who was backed half way out into the isle, backup lights on and stopped. I didn't want to try to go past her in case she suddenly started moving.

As I'm sitting there another woman walks past the first woman's car and looks over at me and mimes "on the phone". We both shook our heads as she continued to her car and I gingerly drove around the clueless talker.

The draconian management at the school where I worked would suspend drivers for "road rage" if you dared to use your horn so that was pretty much drilled out of me. Well, not completely.

oldfarmer50

venture said:

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

What's the problem with your dealers, this time of year they should be begging you to buy?

I'm not a fan of short throw shifters. I might have been programmed by driving buses and vans all my standard shift life but when I drove a Mustang with short throw six speed it was like playing with a video game toggle. No feel for the gears.

oldfarmer50

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

Vermont?

imidazol97

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down. Data is data but cause is cause.

The MSM auto media would find a negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. I recall the Gen 9 Malibu being soundly criticized by a Times Driven writer in a preliminary evaluation because they have plastic inserts where higher optioned vehicles had fog lights. I guess the rear seat room mantra didn't work, even though legroom was longer than the Hynkia equivalents of the same 2014 year, e.g., so he had to find something. But He probably didn't mention the grill work on the toyota models up through their lexis offerings now. But He probably didn't criticize the Civic's wild front and rear sculpting around the lower light area and on the rear where the "exhausts" are for the jet engine (like the 50s and 60s styliing of cars had).

GM did a lot of wrong bean counting in the 80s and 90s, but those times are passed. Some still criticize because of the government intervention with cash but the same folks are likely using insurance programs for healthcare where the insurance companies are receiving cash stipends from the government (in the US). Some folks are happy to buy vehicles from countries where the government subsidizes the auto production or helped the auto companies get started as a way of increasing their exports. Further, others will criticize the sometimes high list pricing, partly caused by the government forcing GM to keep the higher union wage employees for US production. Me? I'll just look to pick up the bargain when everyone else snubs their noses as I did in 2014.

As I said in the first post, drive some higher optioned models and work past the tendency of many of us to feel more comfortable in vehicles where the instruments and controls layout are more similar to the car we're used to driving.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down.

Data is data but cause is cause. And the stereotyping and repetition is the problem.

The MSM auto media would find a single negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. Motorweek would even insert a negative comment about GMs of the past--sometimes it would be different in sound from the original comments because it was recorded at a different time as an addon. I recall the Gen 9 2016 Malibu being soundly criticized by a NY Times Driven writer in a preliminary evaluation because they have plastic inserts where higher optioned vehicles have fog lights. I guess the rear seat room mantra didn't work to criticize, even though legroom was longer than the Hynkia equivalents of the same 2014 year, e.g., so he had to find something. But He probably didn't mention the grill work on the toyota models up through their lexis offerings now. But He probably didn't criticize the Civic's wild front and rear sculpting around the lower light area and on the rear where the "exhausts" are for the jet engine (like the 50s and 60s styliing of cars had).

GM did a lot of wrong bean counting in the 80s and 90s, but those times are passed. Some still criticize because of the government intervention with cash but the same folks are likely using insurance programs for healthcare where the insurance companies are receiving cash stipends from the government (in the US). Some folks are happy to buy vehicles from countries where the government subsidizes the auto production or helped the auto companies get started as a way of increasing their exports. Further, others will criticize the sometimes high list pricing, partly caused by the government forcing GM to keep the higher union wage employees for US production. Me? I'll just look to pick up the bargain when everyone else snubs their noses as I did in 2014.

As I said in the first post, drive some higher optioned models and work past the tendency of many of us to feel more comfortable in vehicles where the instruments and controls layout are more similar to the car we're used to driving.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

New Hampshire?

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

New Hampshire?

I've got it narrowed down to New Hampshire, Maryland or Colorado.

Vermont is white letters on green background.

fintail

Funny. Well, stupid micromanagement.

I don't see many school buses in my neighborhood, but I see a lot of transit buses. Every now and then a dopey "driver" will cut one of them off etc, and the horn gets used. Always amusing.

oldfarmer50 said:

The draconian management at the school where I worked would suspend drivers for "road rage" if you dared to use your horn so that was pretty much drilled out of me. Well, not completely.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

New Hampshire?

I've got it narrowed down to New Hampshire, Maryland or Colorado.

Vermont is white letters on green background.

Not Colorado - the font here is different

fintail

That makes perfect sense, and is why when I look at used MBs, I look for the most loaded ones - as by the time they are just a few years old, the toys are nearly free.

Still, one would think the manufacturer could maybe subsidize the rental fleet in this way. When renters drive base model after base model, it will create a perception about the brand. Of course, that would require forethought and thinking beyond the next quarter, concepts alien to most execs.

oldfarmer50 said:

Considering the return you get on expensive options when you trade, buying strippers might make good economic sense for Hertz. Run any car through the Edmunds appraiser and see how much that $2000 navigation or blind spot monitor gets you.

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

New Hampshire?

I've got it narrowed down to New Hampshire, Maryland or Colorado. Vermont is white letters on green background.

Looked green to me - but after my optometrist told me why I needed to order a new pair of glasses yesterday, it could be any color or group of numbers and letters! 

suydam

Doesn't Colorado show mountains behind the letters? I'll guess NH.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

Mullettville?

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down.

Data is data but cause is cause. And the stereotyping and repetition is the problem.

The MSM auto media would find a single negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. Motorweek would even insert a negative comment about GMs of the past--sometimes it would be different in sound from the original comments because it was recorded at a different time as an addon. I recall the Gen 9 2016 Malibu being soundly criticized by a NY Times Driven writer in a preliminary evaluation because they have plastic inserts where higher optioned vehicles have fog lights. I guess the rear seat room mantra didn't work to criticize, even though legroom was longer than the Hynkia equivalents of the same 2014 year, e.g., so he had to find something. But He probably didn't mention the grill work on the toyota models up through their lexis offerings now. But He probably didn't criticize the Civic's wild front and rear sculpting around the lower light area and on the rear where the "exhausts" are for the jet engine (like the 50s and 60s styliing of cars had).

GM did a lot of wrong bean counting in the 80s and 90s, but those times are passed. Some still criticize because of the government intervention with cash but the same folks are likely using insurance programs for healthcare where the insurance companies are receiving cash stipends from the government (in the US). Some folks are happy to buy vehicles from countries where the government subsidizes the auto production or helped the auto companies get started as a way of increasing their exports. Further, others will criticize the sometimes high list pricing, partly caused by the government forcing GM to keep the higher union wage employees for US production. Me? I'll just look to pick up the bargain when everyone else snubs their noses as I did in 2014.

As I said in the first post, drive some higher optioned models and work past the tendency of many of us to feel more comfortable in vehicles where the instruments and controls layout are more similar to the car we're used to driving.

My only problem with GM is that they make just two vehicles that I'd seriously consider owning- the C7 and the soon to be orphaned SS.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

New Hampshire?

I've got it narrowed down to New Hampshire, Maryland or Colorado.

Vermont is white letters on green background.

I'm thinking New Hampshire because it looks like a 3 number + 4 number format, without any letters.

Michaell

suydam said:

Doesn't Colorado show mountains behind the letters? I'll guess NH.

Yes, yes they do:

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down.

Data is data but cause is cause. And the stereotyping and repetition is the problem.

The MSM auto media would find a single negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. Motorweek would even insert a negative comment about GMs of the past-

All possible. I usually find a lot of reviews favor GM and American products over the foreign makes. I sometimes wonder about the praise the CTS gets compared to the foreign competition. It might be deserved, but, if the CTS is the best car in that group, why isn't it selling as well as the rival makes?

My gut feeling is many websites, magazines, newspapers favor the local car makers, but that is just a feeling I get. Maybe it balances out, some favor local, some don't!

driver100

Michaell said:

suydam said:

Doesn't Colorado show mountains behind the letters? I'll guess NH.

Yes, yes they do:

Who did you pay off to get that license?

Michaell

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

suydam said:

Doesn't Colorado show mountains behind the letters? I'll guess NH.

Yes, yes they do:

Who did you pay off to get that license?

I'll never tell.

andres3

roadburner said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down.

Data is data but cause is cause. And the stereotyping and repetition is the problem.

The MSM auto media would find a single negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. Motorweek would even insert a negative comment about GMs of the past--sometimes it would be different in sound from the original comments because it was recorded at a different time as an addon. I recall the Gen 9 2016 Malibu being soundly criticized by a NY Times Driven writer in a preliminary evaluation because they have plastic inserts where higher optioned vehicles have fog lights. I guess the rear seat room mantra didn't work to criticize, even though legroom was longer than the Hynkia equivalents of the same 2014 year, e.g., so he had to find something. But He probably didn't mention the grill work on the toyota models up through their lexis offerings now. But He probably didn't criticize the Civic's wild front and rear sculpting around the lower light area and on the rear where the "exhausts" are for the jet engine (like the 50s and 60s styliing of cars had).

GM did a lot of wrong bean counting in the 80s and 90s, but those times are passed. Some still criticize because of the government intervention with cash but the same folks are likely using insurance programs for healthcare where the insurance companies are receiving cash stipends from the government (in the US). Some folks are happy to buy vehicles from countries where the government subsidizes the auto production or helped the auto companies get started as a way of increasing their exports. Further, others will criticize the sometimes high list pricing, partly caused by the government forcing GM to keep the higher union wage employees for US production. Me? I'll just look to pick up the bargain when everyone else snubs their noses as I did in 2014.

As I said in the first post, drive some higher optioned models and work past the tendency of many of us to feel more comfortable in vehicles where the instruments and controls layout are more similar to the car we're used to driving.

My only problem with GM is that they make just two vehicles that I'd seriously consider owning- the C7 and the soon to be orphaned SS.

Something about the SS styling and trim on the exterior makes it look "low-rent" to me. It just doesn't work. I think the old G8 that was Pontiac's last gasp for air was a much better looker. Of course, if you looked inside, then things got worse. But the outside is something I could live with for sure on the G8; not so on the SS.

Corvette............I'd need a warranty and a Cadillac-like loaner car policy. Hopefully not the Cadillac-like buyback policy though.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK you sharp eyed people, identify what state is this license plate from?

Mullettville?

Mulletville is only a city within the state of Mulletama.

abacomike

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

suydam said:

Doesn't Colorado show mountains behind the letters? I'll guess NH.

Yes, yes they do:

Who did you pay off to get that license?

Love those "HUGS" and "KISSES"! Brings back fond memories of love letters I used to get from the girls I used to date, "...when I wore a younger man's clothes..." to quote a familiar Billy Joel hit song.

abacomike

@imidazol97

Imid, I want you to be the first to know - I love the new Buick LaCrosse. If I didn't just buy this 740i, I would be at a Buick dealer ordering a top of the line LaCrosse in Red. I also kinda like the new Impala. The CTS and ATS are overdue for a complete make-over, but I am sure that is in the works already. IMHO, GM cars are designed significantly better and are more appealing than Ford or Chrysler products.

There, I said it - now savor my words because you'll need them to throw back in my face if you ever hear me bad-mouth a GM product.

abacomike

I was able to drive up to the mall to get some exercise walking the perimeter. It was not a fast walk, which is what I usually do, but at least I was able to get out bed and into some clothing and get outside. I still ache real bad in my right shoulder, lower back, right knee, right side, both elbows and neck. It was a fall I will never forget. 72 year old guys who are 6'2" and weigh about 250 should not be falling down - it can be deadly in many cases. I was just lucky I didn't break something.

tjc78

As @imidazol97 says, this is NOT your 80s/90s GM. I was a GM basher due to a bad experience, but I've owned two in a row that with only one hiccup have been excellent.

Across their model lineup they are either competitive in every segment and a few are right at the top of the class IMO.

I have to replace our Enclave at the end of the year and am seriously considering GM again.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

Oh burn!!

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Let's check the scoreboard

Audi 77 points on the board, Ford 44. Sounds like a basketball game landslide

qbrozen

driver100 said:

All possible. I usually find a lot of reviews favor GM and American products over the foreign makes. I sometimes wonder about the praise the CTS gets compared to the foreign competition. It might be deserved, but, if the CTS is the best car in that group, why isn't it selling as well as the rival makes?

My gut feeling is many websites, magazines, newspapers favor the local car makers, but that is just a feeling I get. Maybe it balances out, some favor local, some don't!

Because 99% of the buying public does not judge a car by the same criteria as magazines or even enthusiasts.

I completely disagree with your gut feeling, BTW. BMW, Porsche, and Honda win the majority of comparos and awards from what I've seen over the decades.

ab348

qbrozen said:

I completely disagree with your gut feeling, BTW. BMW, Porsche, and Honda win the majority of comparos and awards from what I've seen over the decades.

Exactly.

andres3

tjc78 said:

As @imidazol97 says, this is NOT your 80s/90s GM. I was a GM basher due to a bad experience, but I've owned two in a row that with only one hiccup have been excellent.

Across their model lineup they are either competitive in every segment and a few are right at the top of the class IMO.

I have to replace our Enclave at the end of the year and am seriously considering GM again.

Have both of your last two GM's with only one hiccup between them been Buick's?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Buick does really well lately! Moved up enough to surpass Audi; impressive! I still think Buick is helped by being driven by Grandpa's and Grandma's though. I'd like to see how they hold up driven by teenagers.

roadburner

Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver, and Road & Track are publications aimed at enthusiasts- and I've found that they don't march in lockstep. AM and CD like the 2 Series while R&T is unimpressed("more Buick than Bimmer"). I read them all-along with Autocar, CAR, and EVO-and then draw my own conclusions. I find that I agree most often with CAR and CD- followed closely by R&T and EVO.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

Oh burn!!

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Let's check the scoreboard

Audi 77 points on the board, Ford 44. Sounds like a basketball game landslide

Easy now, I'm not the one who trashed your TT. In fact when I bought the Eclipse I would have rather had a TT. Didn't have the money.

venture

roadburner said:

venture said:

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

I really liked the STI, but in the end it was too similar to my modded MS3. It was a bit quicker but not enough to make me pull the trigger.

I was surprised how well it handled. The 4 wheel drive helps no doubt. The salesman sitting in the passenger seat was well into his 70s so I sort of took it easy.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

I drove 2 Subaru's yesterday in my, in not too big a hurry, quest to replace the Fusion.

First was a Legacy 3.6R Limited. Nice. Competent. Nothing exciting.

Then I drove a WRX. Those things are fast! It wasn't even the STI. The shifter has sort of a long throw, but nothing you couldn't get used to I guess. Besides, I'm sure there is a kit.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I really like my Fusion, but am at my wits end with the dealers in the area.

What's the problem with your dealers, this time of year they should be begging you to buy?

I'm not a fan of short throw shifters. I might have been programmed by driving buses and vans all my standard shift life but when I drove a Mustang with short throw six speed it was like playing with a video game toggle. No feel for the gears.

In guess I didn't word that very well. I'm at my wits end with the Ford dealers in the area. I want nothing to do with them.

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

All possible. I usually find a lot of reviews favor GM and American products over the foreign makes. I sometimes wonder about the praise the CTS gets compared to the foreign competition. It might be deserved, but, if the CTS is the best car in that group, why isn't it selling as well as the rival makes?

My gut feeling is many websites, magazines, newspapers favor the local car makers, but that is just a feeling I get. Maybe it balances out, some favor local, some don't!

Because 99% of the buying public does not judge a car by the same criteria as magazines or even enthusiasts.

I completely disagree with your gut feeling, BTW. BMW, Porsche, and Honda win the majority of comparos and awards from what I've seen over the decades.

OK, I'll take another guess. The reviews I read are in newspapers, non-automotive magazines, websites - like Road/Show on CNet, Businessweek.. I just read some great reviews for the Bolt and Volt on Road/Show that were extremely positive. The auto enthusiast magazines will probably favor European cars for their handling characteristics....that is the main reason they are the benchmark the others strive to compete against.

I used to read automotive magazines but don't have the time now....so explain to me what D3 car is not given a fair break against the foreign competition (other than imid and the lack of backseat room issue). And explain why the CTS is usually #1 up against the direct competition.

driver100

roadburner said:

Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver, and Road & Track are publications aimed at enthusiasts- and I've found that they don't march in lockstep. AM and CD like the 2 Series while R&T is unimpressed("more Buick than Bimmer"). I read them all-along with Autocar, CAR, and EVO-and then draw my own conclusions. I find that I agree most often with CAR and CD- followed closely by R&T and EVO.

But the question is....do they favor the foreign makes even when the domestics are better?

ab348

driver100 said:

OK, I'll take another guess. The reviews I read are in newspapers, non-automotive magazines, websites - like Road/Show on CNet, Businessweek.. I just read some great reviews for the Bolt and Volt on Road/Show that were extremely positive.

After reading the puff piece Roadshow did on the new small Tesla, I'm inclined to believe they have a bias in favor of electrification.

driver100 said:

I used to read automotive magazines but don't have the time now....so explain to me what D3 car is not given a fair break against the foreign competition (other than imid and the lack of backseat room issue). And explain why the CTS is usually #1 up against the direct competition.

I used to read R&T and CD years ago but got tired of the constant Ferrari and Porsche cover stories and the emphasis on cars I would never consider.

Maybe the CTS is #1 because it is good or at least good value?

My main gripe is not with the actual print magazines so much since they have become somewhat irrelevant in today's world. Look at most automotive websites and you hear a very different story. Even the Lacrosse, which gets generally good reviews, got panned by a Roadshow reviewer last week because the infortainment system couldn't understand her voice. That is a complaint I have never heard about Intellilink before.

ab348

I must look like a pigeon when I walk into a business. First it was the Cadillac dealer's shenanigans. Today I went to buy an Ethernet cable, they wanted $23 for the only one they carried! No thanks.

But the best one was when I found the bill from my lawyer for updating my will in the mail. We met twice, the initial meeting where I handed him the draft I had done up and we had a discussion about my situation, then a week later where he presented the same thing that they had reformatted and added some things to. Taken together I doubt I was there for more than 90 minutes.

He told me in the first meeting that he charges $450 for a will, which was fine by me. The bill today was over $700. Nowhere does $450 appear on it. WTH?