Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

A lot of GEEK websites are getting into car reviews and that is gadget-bias right there.

Nonetheless, the driving experience can be highly subjective in areas where quantification is difficult or impossible. There's no such thing as a "Harsh-o-Meter" and when is a shift "crisp" anyway? What's a "long throw" in a gearshift lever?

qbrozen

driver100 said:

I used to read automotive magazines but don't have the time now....so explain to me what D3 car is not given a fair break against the foreign competition (other than imid and the lack of backseat room issue). And explain why the CTS is usually #1 up against the direct competition.

I never claimed a fair break is not given.

I don't know if the CTS is always #1 (actually, it finished 2nd to the Benz E43 in the C&D May issue), but it is on C&D's 10 best list, at least. Why? They note the Vsport as the main reason. I believe it may be the only luxo-mid-sizer under 2 tons (just double checked this and the new 540 has finally trimmed some fat and comes close). It has magnetic ride control, which has always been a huge praise point on the Corvette. The CTS-V, as of last year's contest, is the fastest sedan ever to run Lightning Lap. The Vsport ran it faster than vehicles such as the M235i, GT500, TTS, Evora, Alfa 4C, and many other sportscars. It is, without a doubt, an impressive luxo sedan, at least in those top 2 trims. Again, though, these are things that enthusiasts care about, not the other 99% of buyers.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

I must look like a pigeon when I walk into a business. First it was the Cadillac dealer's shenanigans. Today I went to buy an Ethernet cable, they wanted $23 for the only one they carried! No thanks.

But the best one was when I found the bill from my lawyer for updating my will in the mail. We met twice, the initial meeting where I handed him the draft I had done up and we had a discussion about my situation, then a week later where he presented the same thing that they had reformatted and added some things to. Taken together I doubt I was there for more than 90 minutes.

He told me in the first meeting that he charges $450 for a will, which was fine by me. The bill today was over $700. Nowhere does $450 appear on it. WTH?

The extra charge was probably for shop supplies.

roadburner

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver, and Road & Track are publications aimed at enthusiasts- and I've found that they don't march in lockstep. AM and CD like the 2 Series while R&T is unimpressed("more Buick than Bimmer"). I read them all-along with Autocar, CAR, and EVO-and then draw my own conclusions. I find that I agree most often with CAR and CD- followed closely by R&T and EVO.

But the question is....do they favor the foreign makes even when the domestics are better?

I don't believe so; the V and V Sport Cadillacs are uniformly praised as is the C7, Camaro, and Mustang.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

I must look like a pigeon when I walk into a business. First it was the Cadillac dealer's shenanigans. Today I went to buy an Ethernet cable, they wanted $23 for the only one they carried! No thanks.

But the best one was when I found the bill from my lawyer for updating my will in the mail. We met twice, the initial meeting where I handed him the draft I had done up and we had a discussion about my situation, then a week later where he presented the same thing that they had reformatted and added some things to. Taken together I doubt I was there for more than 90 minutes.

He told me in the first meeting that he charges $450 for a will, which was fine by me. The bill today was over $700. Nowhere does $450 appear on it. WTH?

The extra charge was probably for shop supplies.

Or DOC fees!

oldfarmer50

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of GEEK websites are getting into car reviews and that is gadget-bias right there.

Nonetheless, the driving experience can be highly subjective in areas where quantification is difficult or impossible. There's no such thing as a "Harsh-o-Meter" and when is a shift "crisp" anyway? What's a "long throw" in a gearshift lever?

Oh yeah, YouTube is loaded with shade tree car reviewers. My favorite was a video review to determine if the auto tranny Mustang was as good as a standard. The reviewer proceeded to get his buddy's Mustang up to over a hundred mph on city streets in traffic before pronouncing it "more fun than expected".

BTW, a long throw shifter is the one I had in my old van 1st would dislocate your shoulder and 2nd would bruise your knuckles on the dash.

driver100

I just used the first example I found....a 2014 Car & Driver review comparing a CTS, BMW 535, Audi A6 and Mercedes E350.
I think the review is probably very realistic, but they really praised the CTS....almost like they paid for the article, it is so flattering.
It could be 100% true, but, I think they gave their opinion....and they could have picked any car to be their favorite, and they picked the domestic.

Car & Driver

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of GEEK websites are getting into car reviews and that is gadget-bias right there.

Nonetheless, the driving experience can be highly subjective in areas where quantification is difficult or impossible. There's no such thing as a "Harsh-o-Meter" and when is a shift "crisp" anyway? What's a "long throw" in a gearshift lever?

Try reading audio equipment reviews in the High End audio magazines like The Absolute Sound; you'll hear sound quality described as "chocolatey," "liquid," "lush," "organic," and countless other adjectives that are virtually impossible to define objectively.
Oh yeah, and all of those I mentioned will usually be pressed into service when discussing the difference in sound made by $500/foot power cords...

driver100

Andre, I liked those reliability etc reviews from Consumers Reports you posted.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Buick has done well in reliability for the last few years. I am not very techno or mechanically minded, but in giving the Buick high marks for reliability, the article seemed to say Buicks were pretty staid, nothing cutting edge, and this makes the cars more reliable. IMO, if you aren't on the leading edge of engineering and technology, you tend to make more dependable though not as enjoyable to drive cars.....just like Toyota does so well. Does this make sense?

houdini1

Goodness, what is all this talk about cars? Let's get back to washing machines, dishwashers, etc.

Michaell

houdini1 said:

Goodness, what is all this talk about cars? Let's get back to washing machines, dishwashers, etc.

Let's see - I had a plumber at my house yesterday looking over everything. Gave me an estimate of $8K-plus for all the work we could do (including $7K for a tankless water heater).

28firefighter

What is the ROI estimate for spending $7000 on a tankless hot water heater?

We have one because our home had to meet efficiency standards for the City of Seattle (plus there is no space for a standard) and, after having used it for 3.5 years, I think it is largely hype....

jmonroe

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:

Mustang has always been an 'Everyman' vehicle. You can move up or down the lineup as it suits you.
That glorified Rabbit, sold as a TT, has sold a whole 1318 units this year.
Mustang sales are down, 2018 available soon, but still outselling the TT 40 to 1.
TT global sales are higher, I'm sure.

Oh burn!!

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Let's check the scoreboard

Audi 77 points on the board, Ford 44. Sounds like a basketball game landslide

Getting a little picky but numbers are numbers, right?

I'd suggest you get the name of @abacomike's optometrist or really any competent one. I think you might have an astigmatism problem. The Audi reliability score is 71 not 77. Bad try or bad eyes. You are however correct that Ford is 44.

If I was a MB owner I'd expect more than being dead even with Ford at 44. Someone is getting screwed. Guess who? Oh wait, you don't buy a MB for reliability you buy it for driving dynamics and a badge. Maybe even multi-colored interior accent lighting choices.

The rating that really surprised me is that Honda is slipping but they are no worse than BMW at 57. Another surprise is that Subaru has found the edge of the cliff and decided to jump (now 54 but fell 6 points). Therefore, Subaru might be off my list when it's time to replace Mrs. j's 2012 Legacy Limited. That's a dilemma that I'll have to face at that time but unless things change, MB won't make the cut either.

I might have to settle for a Lexus or a Buick.

jmonroe

andres3

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver, and Road & Track are publications aimed at enthusiasts- and I've found that they don't march in lockstep. AM and CD like the 2 Series while R&T is unimpressed("more Buick than Bimmer"). I read them all-along with Autocar, CAR, and EVO-and then draw my own conclusions. I find that I agree most often with CAR and CD- followed closely by R&T and EVO.

But the question is....do they favor the foreign makes even when the domestics are better?

I don't believe so; the V and V Sport Cadillacs are uniformly praised as is the C7, Camaro, and Mustang.

Were talking Camaro ZL1 and Mustang GT350 though, right? At least when it comes to universal praise.

jmonroe

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

Goodness, what is all this talk about cars? Let's get back to washing machines, dishwashers, etc.

Let's see - I had a plumber at my house yesterday looking over everything. Gave me an estimate of $8K-plus for all the work we could do (including $7K for a tankless water heater).

Hell, for 8 grand I could live with some leaks until I learned how to sweat solder fittings.

About the tankless rage, I know 2 fellow ex-workers who installed them a few years ago and are not convinced they made the right decision.

Maybe our resident plumber, @nyccarguy, can weigh in on this for you.

EDIT: I see @28firefighter has already voiced his opinion. Which is what I have heard before.

jmonroe

driver100

Good detective work JMonroe, but the article did say at the outset that the amount paid for a car doesn't guaranty more reliability.
If you want the best dependability possible, go with tried and true technology, Buick or Toyota product. If you want more cutting edge and newer innovations there is a price to pay, and it will mean more can go wrong.

My son who drives his cars long past the expiration date says about things like power windows and a/c, he would rather not have them, just more that can go wrong.

oldfarmer50

Anybody familiar with this story? Why only cop versions?

Maybe because the sit and idle for extended periods?

http://myfox8.com/2017/08/02/another-cop-sickened-by-possible-carbon-monoxide-leak-in-a-ford-suv/

In other new, just saw a story about a big dust storm in Arizona. Got me wondering how you guys who live there protect your car finishes from the sand blasting. A sand storm must be brutal on the clear coat.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TAQJtPlVrrI

abacomike

jmonroe said:

Goodness, what is all this talk about cars? Let's get back to washing machines, dishwashers, etc.

Let's see - I had a plumber at my house yesterday looking over everything. Gave me an estimate of $8K-plus for all the work we could do (including $7K for a tankless water heater).

Hell, for 8 grand I could live with some leaks until I learned how to sweat solder fittings. About the tankless rage, I know 2 fellow ex-workers who installed them a few years ago and are not convinced they made the right decision. Maybe our resident plumber, @nyccarguy, can weigh in on this for you. jmonroe

I've had an electric tankless water heater in this condo since 2004.  It is now 13 years old.  Functions perfectly.  Water is very hot for dishwashing, showering, and morning tooth brushing and shaving.  I guess we just got lucky with this one.

BTW, JM, according to my optometrist yesterday morning, my myopia (nearsightedness for those of you who are linguistically handicapped) has gotten pretty bad.  I thought my vision deterioration was due to all the medications I take.  But, I guess she ruled that rationale out since she was able to improve my vision to 20/25 with the new prescription.  $575 for frames and lenses - and that's with my insurance paying $106.  Outrageous!  But I guess it's worth the price if I can improve my vision.  

abacomike

driver100 said:

Good detective work JMonroe, but the article did say at the outset that the amount paid for a car doesn't guaranty more reliability. If you want the best dependability possible, go with tried and true technology, Buick or Toyota product. If you want more cutting edge and newer innovations there is a price to pay, and it will mean more can go wrong. My son who drives his cars long past the expiration date says about things like power windows and a/c, he would rather not have them, just more that can go wrong.

What your daughter saw in your SIL must be "classified" or "top secret"!  Drives his cars through their expiration dates?  Just mentioning that here on Edmunds should be classified as heresy.  

suydam

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:

As @imidazol97 says, this is NOT your 80s/90s GM. I was a GM basher due to a bad experience, but I've owned two in a row that with only one hiccup have been excellent.

Across their model lineup they are either competitive in every segment and a few are right at the top of the class IMO.

I have to replace our Enclave at the end of the year and am seriously considering GM again.

Have both of your last two GM's with only one hiccup between them been Buick's?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Buick does really well lately! Moved up enough to surpass Audi; impressive! I still think Buick is helped by being driven by Grandpa's and Grandma's though. I'd like to see how they hold up driven by teenagers.

You're only looking at the new car market. Older Buicks are often a teen's first car! Mine drove his second used LeSabre for 10 years. They are also bought by people of all ages on a budget because they are easy to repair and generally very reliable.

driver100

Houdini, sorry, we kind of went off topic and started talking about cars again. I got this unbelievable deal on travelzoo this week:

$599 – Thailand 4-Star Vacation incl. Flights

This isn't a misprint: This five-night Bangkok trip is $599 for flights and a 4-star hotel stay.



I can't stay in a hotel around here for that amount of money!

Michaell

28firefighter said:

What is the ROI estimate for spending $7000 on a tankless hot water heater?

We have one because our home had to meet efficiency standards for the City of Seattle (plus there is no space for a standard) and, after having used it for 3.5 years, I think it is largely hype....

We didn't talk ROI; it was suggested because we currently have a 30 gallon water heater for a 2700 sq ft house and three adults. And no room to put a bigger tank into the space.

My folks put in a tankless water heater; I don't think they did an ROI either. Same with the solar system installed on their roof. But, it may make the house a bit more desirable when we go to sell it.

andres3

suydam said:

andres3 said:

tjc78 said:

As @imidazol97 says, this is NOT your 80s/90s GM. I was a GM basher due to a bad experience, but I've owned two in a row that with only one hiccup have been excellent.

Across their model lineup they are either competitive in every segment and a few are right at the top of the class IMO.

I have to replace our Enclave at the end of the year and am seriously considering GM again.

Have both of your last two GM's with only one hiccup between them been Buick's?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Buick does really well lately! Moved up enough to surpass Audi; impressive! I still think Buick is helped by being driven by Grandpa's and Grandma's though. I'd like to see how they hold up driven by teenagers.

You're only looking at the new car market. Older Buicks are often a teen's first car! Mine drove his second used LeSabre for 10 years. They are also bought by people of all ages on a budget because they are easy to repair and generally very reliable.

You bring up a good point. Would be interesting if Big Brother (aka DMV) could publish statistics on registration owner ages per brand of vehicle. That would take into account old cars as well.

houdini1

driver100 said:

Houdini, sorry, we kind of went off topic and started talking about cars again. I got this unbelievable deal on travelzoo this week:

$599 – Thailand 4-Star Vacation incl. Flights

This isn't a misprint: This five-night Bangkok trip is $599 for flights and a 4-star hotel stay.



I can't stay in a hotel around here for that amount of money!

Heck of a deal. Is it per couple or per person? Look out for those "doc fees".

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

That might be it. Want to find the lowest optioned premium brand cars that exist? Go to Hertz. A 300 I rented last year had literally zero options, and their luxury cars can be found like this too. I turned up my nose at an upgrade to a Q50 2.0 that was also void of options, and was kind of beat. I am sure the Model S in their fleet (yes, they have them) are probably the P60 or whatever the base model is called.

Funny thing, go to Europe, and rentals tend to be much better equipped.

andres3 said:

Maybe some Hertz premium line specials will opt for the $35K package.

Considering the return you get on expensive options when you trade, buying strippers might make good economic sense for Hertz. Run any car through the Edmunds appraiser and see how much that $2000 navigation or blind spot monitor gets you.

I'm not going to argue with you about a persons return on options investment. Because I'd lose my shirt trying to argue that. I want a factory installed nav because I don't want to put up with a small aftermarket job (if they even sell those anymore. What with smartphones today) that is glued to the windshield or stuck on a vent outlet. A smartphone using Google is far more up to date than my factory installed units in both the Genny or the Subie.

So, I guess that make me a real dope but I bought it because that is what I wanted not what it will bring me at trade time. In my way of looking at it, if it gives me what I want for the time period that I have the car, that is good enough for me. The real down side is that I pay through the nose when I wanted nav because it came only as a "package" that forced me into a moon roof with the Subie, that I could well live without. Then again, trading a car today without a moon roof or other items that come as part of packages will net me a hard to sell argument from a dealer. So, even though the price drops drastically for some options not having them will kill you at trade time.

So why the options drop in value at trade time I will never know, other than that is the way car dealers want to do it and they all seem to be in the same bed. It sure seems like 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' to me. :@

jmonroe

jmonroe

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

It isn't just an image problem....it is a fact!

The point of my post is the continual stereotyping of GM's current cars. It's the stereotyping, even though not deserved as stated by many in the past many years, that keeps the buying age down.

Data is data but cause is cause. And the stereotyping and repetition is the problem.

The MSM auto media would find a single negative in a GM product to harp on as the excuse for discounting the improved efforts. Motorweek would even insert a negative comment about GMs of the past--sometimes it would be different in sound from the original comments because it was recorded at a different time as an addon. I recall the Gen 9 2016 Malibu being soundly criticized by a NY Times Driven writer in a preliminary evaluation because they have plastic inserts where higher optioned vehicles have fog lights. I guess the rear seat room mantra didn't work to criticize, even though legroom was longer than the Hynkia equivalents of the same 2014 year, e.g., so he had to find something. But He probably didn't mention the grill work on the toyota models up through their lexis offerings now. But He probably didn't criticize the Civic's wild front and rear sculpting around the lower light area and on the rear where the "exhausts" are for the jet engine (like the 50s and 60s styliing of cars had).

GM did a lot of wrong bean counting in the 80s and 90s, but those times are passed. Some still criticize because of the government intervention with cash but the same folks are likely using insurance programs for healthcare where the insurance companies are receiving cash stipends from the government (in the US). Some folks are happy to buy vehicles from countries where the government subsidizes the auto production or helped the auto companies get started as a way of increasing their exports. Further, others will criticize the sometimes high list pricing, partly caused by the government forcing GM to keep the higher union wage employees for US production. Me? I'll just look to pick up the bargain when everyone else snubs their noses as I did in 2014.

As I said in the first post, drive some higher optioned models and work past the tendency of many of us to feel more comfortable in vehicles where the instruments and controls layout are more similar to the car we're used to driving.

@imidazol97, don't take the GM thing so personally. If you like what they offer then that should be all that counts.

How would you like to me? Like owning a wannabe Genny and now finding out that Subaru has taken a nose dive in reliability.

Wanna trade places?

jmonroe

fintail

One must also learn how a source defines "reliability" (they usually don't describe the criteria outright). Is this related to cars broken down on the side of the road, expensive maintenance, ICE that confuses oldsters, or?

andres3 said:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/

Let's check the scoreboard

Audi 77 points on the board, Ford 44. Sounds like a basketball game landslide

explorerx4

Holes drilled and not sealed for aftermarket equipment installed in the PIU's is letting fumes in.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

linguistically handicapped

That's "linguistically challenged" in the PC world. LOL

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

A lot of GEEK websites are getting into car reviews and that is gadget-bias right there.

Nonetheless, the driving experience can be highly subjective in areas where quantification is difficult or impossible. There's no such thing as a "Harsh-o-Meter" and when is a shift "crisp" anyway? What's a "long throw" in a gearshift lever?

Try reading audio equipment reviews in the High End audio magazines like The Absolute Sound; you'll hear sound quality described as "chocolatey," "liquid," "lush," "organic," and countless other adjectives that are virtually impossible to define objectively.
Oh yeah, and all of those I mentioned will usually be pressed into service when discussing the difference in sound made by $500/foot power cords...

I love seeing people like that busted on blind-testing.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

;$575 for frames and lenses - and that's with my insurance paying $106.  Outrageous!  But I guess it's worth the price if I can improve my vision.  

Mine were around $250 for lenses and eye exam at my optometrist at Walmart.

tjc78

andres3 said:

As @imidazol97 says, this is NOT your 80s/90s GM. I was a GM basher due to a bad experience, but I've owned two in a row that with only one hiccup have been excellent. Across their model lineup they are either competitive in every segment and a few are right at the top of the class IMO. I have to replace our Enclave at the end of the year and am seriously considering GM again.

Have both of your last two GM's with only one hiccup between them been Buick's? https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/ Buick does really well lately! Moved up enough to surpass Audi; impressive! I still think Buick is helped by being driven by Grandpa's and Grandma's though. I'd like to see how they hold up driven by teenagers.

I'm not easy on any of my cars, so I don't think that's it.   My Enclave is also mechanically identical to a Chevy and GMC variant as well.   

tjc78

roadburner said:

A lot of GEEK websites are getting into car reviews and that is gadget-bias right there. Nonetheless, the driving experience can be highly subjective in areas where quantification is difficult or impossible. There's no such thing as a "Harsh-o-Meter" and when is a shift "crisp" anyway? What's a "long throw" in a gearshift lever?

Try reading audio equipment reviews in the High End audio magazines like The Absolute Sound; you'll hear sound quality described as "chocolatey," "liquid," "lush," "organic," and countless other adjectives that are virtually impossible to define objectively. Oh yeah, and all of those I mentioned will usually be pressed into service when discussing the difference in sound made by $500/foot power cords...

Stereophile was good for that too....  place a $200 disc under each leg of a $5000 CD player and it was like Beethoven was playing between your speakers live.  Highs were crisper, bass was fuller and reaching into the lower octaves like never before.....

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

;$575 for frames and lenses - and that's with my insurance paying $106.  Outrageous!  But I guess it's worth the price if I can improve my vision.  

Mine were around $250 for lenses and eye exam at my optometrist at Walmart.

These are progressives instead of bi-focal or tri-focal (Varilux), photochromic (darkens in sunlight), coated for UV protection, coated for scratch protection, etc.  Frames are titanium (only metal that won't react to the oils in my skin and won't turn green).  Lenses are super thin which are expensive - I have a very strong Rx so with regular lenses, they would be very thick.

tjc78

I'm -8 in both eyes... my lenses are never thin no matter what I spend on them.  Thank goodness for contacts.  

qbrozen

I wanted a tankless water heater but the plumber I had out to the house told me they have installed a few now and every homeowner regretted it and some even switched back.

when a guy who could make money on the job tells me not to do it, I listen.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

Holes drilled and not sealed for aftermarket equipment installed in the PIU's is letting fumes in.

Really? That sounds like a no brainer fix. How come nobody considered to do that before they put them on the road?

roadburner

andres3 said:

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

roadburner said:

Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver, and Road & Track are publications aimed at enthusiasts- and I've found that they don't march in lockstep. AM and CD like the 2 Series while R&T is unimpressed("more Buick than Bimmer"). I read them all-along with Autocar, CAR, and EVO-and then draw my own conclusions. I find that I agree most often with CAR and CD- followed closely by R&T and EVO.

But the question is....do they favor the foreign makes even when the domestics are better?

I don't believe so; the V and V Sport Cadillacs are uniformly praised as is the C7, Camaro, and Mustang.

Were talking Camaro ZL1 and Mustang GT350 though, right? At least when it comes to universal praise.

No, they also like the Camaro 1LE as well as the Mustang GT(with the Performance Package).

nyccarguy

Ok - here's the deal with Tankless Heaters.  They work exceptionally well in warmer climates, where the temperature doesn't fall under 50 degrees.  They just can't keep up with the colder ground water temperatures.  My Dad who lives in a suburb of NYC has a Navien combination boiler & water heater.  He also has a traditional 40 or 50 gallon heater which pre heats the water before it gets to the tankless.  He has no problems and LOVES it.  There also has to be a return line run back into the unit.

@Michaell - do you have a natural gas or electric water heater.  How much space do you have?  They make 40 & 50 gallon "low boy" heaters that are shorter than the regular heaters.  Another suggestion (if you have space) is to hook up ANOTHER 30 or 40 gallon heater (30 gallon heaters cost MORE than 40 gallon heaters) to your existing heater.  The 1st heater does all the work and the second heater basically acts as a storage tank.  I'm here to help.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Ok - here's the deal with Tankless Heaters.  They work exceptionally well in warmer climates, where the temperature doesn't fall under 50 degrees.  They just can't keep up with the colder ground water temperatures.  My Dad who lives in a suburb of NYC has a Navien combination boiler & water heater.  He also has a traditional 40 or 50 gallon heater which pre heats the water before it gets to the tankless.  He has no problems and LOVES it.  There also has to be a return line run back into the unit.

@Michaell - do you have a natural gas or electric water heater.  How much space do you have?  They make 40 & 50 gallon "low boy" heaters that are shorter than the regular heaters.  Another suggestion (if you have space) is to hook up ANOTHER 30 or 40 gallon heater (30 gallon heaters cost MORE than 40 gallon heaters) to your existing heater.  The 1st heater does all the work and the second heater basically acts as a storage tank.  I'm here to help.

Natural gas fed water heater. It's not height that's the problem, it's width. The furnace and the accordion doors restrict the size. I'll get a picture and post it.

The plumber also noted that there is a code violation with the line to the whole house humidifier. Sigh.

Everything works, and there are other priorities in the house. I'll keep y'all updated.

stickguy

when we priced tankless, it was IIRC about $2k installed (vs. ~$1k for a normal tank replacement), Not sure what else you got priced, but that seems really high. But what do I know?

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Good detective work JMonroe, but the article did say at the outset that the amount paid for a car doesn't guaranty more reliability.
If you want the best dependability possible, go with tried and true technology, Buick or Toyota product. If you want more cutting edge and newer innovations there is a price to pay, and it will mean more can go wrong.

My son who drives his cars long past the expiration date says about things like power windows and a/c, he would rather not have them, just more that can go wrong.

What your daughter saw in your SIL must be "classified" or "top secret"!  Drives his cars through their expiration dates?  Just mentioning that here on Edmunds should be classified as heresy.  

Just to clarify, son is a good kid. Has 4 children, lives a simple life, kind of minimalist. Built own house, works hard, fixes his cars himself and keeps them running way past their natural life expectancy. His wife has similar values....glad they found each other. BTW, right now he has a Yukon....great for the logging roads he has to drive on.

SIL is the one........don't know what daughter saw in him, except he spins a good story. Seems like a great guy until you start to see through him...and his stories don't add up. He should have money to buy better cars....he gets cars and keeps them until they aren't safe to drive....but, keeps them going. Hates to pay out money for a newer car...hates to pay anyone when he owes them. Has a MBA but has no money sense. I think he got whatever he needed in life, so doesn't understand how money works....doesn't understand the Drivers Method of amortizing costs which show that it might be cheaper to buy a new car than to keep repairing an old car.

suydam

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

;$575 for frames and lenses - and that's with my insurance paying $106.  Outrageous!  But I guess it's worth the price if I can improve my vision.  

Mine were around $250 for lenses and eye exam at my optometrist at Walmart.

My spouse got progressive lenses with the automatic darkening feature and all that good stuff for around $100 at Costco. Love that place. I think we had a rewards card from them too from leasing the Volt.

28firefighter

Not a weather condition you see very often. 

fintail

Usually from the window at my office in Bellevue, you can see much of the DT Seattle skyline. It was gone by around 9am today.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Houdini, sorry, we kind of went off topic and started talking about cars again. I got this unbelievable deal on travelzoo this week:

$599 – Thailand 4-Star Vacation incl. Flights

This isn't a misprint: This five-night Bangkok trip is $599 for flights and a 4-star hotel stay.



I can't stay in a hotel around here for that amount of money!

Better be careful you don't end waking in a bathtub full of ice missing a kidney.

oldfarmer50

C

28firefighter said:

Not a weather condition you see very often. 

Where's that coming from? I heard you guys were experiencing some global warming out there but not enough to catch fire.

Meanwhile on the east coast we're having a rather cool summer. Hasn't hit 90 since early June.

oldfarmer50

Which would you buy if you were looking for some cheap topless fun?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/1995-mustang/6245228934.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mazda-miata-mx-5/6245047694.html

qbrozen

Miata