Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

To Mike and the others who may be affected.

Trust your instincts and I agree with the others that have suggested getting out of there ASAP. Hopefully it'll
take a turn and burn itself out in the Atlantic somewhere.

I'm going to quit complaining about all of the smoke in the air from the Northwest fires. Small potatoes compared to Texas and Florida! Be safe and keep us posted!

Sounds like the west coast from LA north could use a good tropical storm to put those fires out.

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

stickguy

Fine if done right. Credit scores are often odd, since people that manage money well but never borrow get penalized. Not same as low score because you don't pay loans back!

oldfarmer50

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

That might be a smart move as many young folks haven't had time to build up a credit history. They better be carful though because the other side of the coin is that many young folks feel entitled and have no sense of shame about defaulting on credit obligations.

I think in the old days more emphasis was put on "character" factors such as job history, education and such. I was suprised that on my last two new car deals they only looked at my credit score before loaning me $25k+.

cdnpinhead

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

Not likely -- this time of the year there is quite a bit of dry lightening, but I may have missed an important news story or two related to arson.

fintail

Is this new? They'll just charge 28.9% interest, or encourage a co-signer. Sounds like it might be more hype than revelation, might make for some good advertising.

Before some moan about young people being entitled, think about who they learned it from, the masters of entitlement. Sometimes a certain generation today reminds me of the old guard 60 years ago complaining about rock and roll

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

fintail

I think the big Columbia Gorge fire was set by kids playing with fireworks.

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

Not likely -- this time of the year there is quite a bit of dry lightening, but I may have missed an important news story or two related to arson.

oldfarmer50

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

Not likely -- this time of the year there is quite a bit of dry lightening, but I may have missed an important news story or two related to arson.

I think I heard that the most recent fire near LA was set. Somebody got arrested I think.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

Is this new? They'll just charge 28.9% interest, or encourage a co-signer. Sounds like it might be more hype than revelation, might make for some good advertising.

Before some moan about young people being entitled, think about who they learned it from, the masters of entitlement. Sometimes a certain generation today reminds me of the old guard 60 years ago complaining about rock and roll

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

Didn't mean to generalize about you young whipper snappers but there seems to be a different sense of responsibility these days. I guess there were always dead beats.

BTW, everybody knows Rock & Roll leads to communism. :@

driver100

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

So they want to make car loans nice and easy to get like the mortgage loans that got us into trouble 10 years ago. Everything old is new again!

That's not so easy either, young people aren't that interested in buying cars. I don't 't know if easy loans are the answer to selling more cars.

suydam

fintail said:

I think the big Columbia Gorge fire was set by kids playing with fireworks.

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

Not likely -- this time of the year there is quite a bit of dry lightening, but I may have missed an important news story or two related to arson.

Most of the worst fires right now are in Washington and Montana, not California. Few are deliberately set but many are caused by carelessness. No evidence of arson so far in the LA La Tuna fire. The huge Columbia Gorge fire appears to have been started by kids playing with fireworks.

fintail

Yep, and apples don't fall far from trees. These seem to be learned traits. I'm far from a boomer, but I wouldn't want to be someone half my age starting out today, where everything costs even more than 20 years ago, and the wages of jobs held by that group for the most part buy even less.

Funny thing, I bet some people still believe that about Rock and Roll.

oldfarmer50 said:

Didn't mean to generalize about you young whipper snappers but there seems to be a different sense of responsibility these days. I guess there were always dead beats.

BTW, everybody knows Rock & Roll leads to communism. :@

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Is this new? They'll just charge 28.9% interest, or encourage a co-signer. Sounds like it might be more hype than revelation, might make for some good advertising.

Before some moan about young people being entitled, think about who they learned it from, the masters of entitlement. Sometimes a certain generation today reminds me of the old guard 60 years ago complaining about rock and roll

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

Subprime auto loans now sit at 32.5% of total loans, according to Bloomberg. "Subprime" is defined as people with credit scores of 550 and under, down to around 300.

Those numbers are a bit scary.

explorerx4

@ab348,
You can option up a Fusion SE with the Lux pkg, Tech pgk, and Mach wheels and get pretty close to a Titanium model and save some money. AWD and the 2.0 are available with the SE also.
My daughter has that car, plus she added Nav.
Not sure if the same combinations are available in Canada.

From a stop, Ford's AWD system defaults to AWD then goes to FWD if no slippage is detected.

stickguy

well, the 2 kids (26 and 21, so I guess both millenials? I can never keep that stuff straight) are both extremely interested in looking at, test driving, and using cars. So from my sampling, the younger generation is just as car crazy as previous ones!

isellhondas

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

Oh, what a smart way to move cars! Lower the credit requirements! That'll do it!

I hope they have a bunch of Repo Guys on speed dial!

isellhondas

fintail said:

I think the big Columbia Gorge fire was set by kids playing with fireworks.

cdnpinhead said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Is it true that most of them have been intentionally set?

Not likely -- this time of the year there is quite a bit of dry lightening, but I may have missed an important news story or two related to arson.

I think it was lightening that started the fires near Cle Elum! Man, I'm getting sick of all of this SMOKE!

suydam

stickguy said:

well, the 2 kids (26 and 21, so I guess both millenials? I can never keep that stuff straight) are both extremely interested in looking at, test driving, and using cars. So from my sampling, the younger generation is just as car crazy as previous ones!

Of my equally small sample, 2 kids live in cities and don't have cars, and 1 buys a car about every 12 years and prefers to get the same vehicle if possible. He's had 2 LeSabres and an Impala. Cars are strictly transport for them.

fintail

I notice we still have ash flurries today. Fun times.

isellhondas said:

I think it was lightening that started the fires near Cle Elum! Man, I'm getting sick of all of this SMOKE!

fintail

Much easier to repo a car than a house, and more profit in re-selling them. I am scared of it in terms of a picture of the socio-economic spectrum in general than I am about it signaling another recession.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Subprime auto loans now sit at 32.5% of total loans, according to Bloomberg. "Subprime" is defined as people with credit scores of 550 and under, down to around 300.

Those numbers are a bit scary.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

Yep, and apples don't fall far from trees. These seem to be learned traits. I'm far from a boomer, but I wouldn't want to be someone half my age starting out today, where everything costs even more than 20 years ago, and the wages of jobs held by that group for the most part buy even less.

Funny thing, I bet some people still believe that about Rock and Roll.

oldfarmer50 said:

Didn't mean to generalize about you young whipper snappers but there seems to be a different sense of responsibility these days. I guess there were always dead beats.

BTW, everybody knows Rock & Roll leads to communism. :@

I guess we all remember the good old days as better than they probably were. Just on a whim I checked out thehp ratings on the 318 in my old 69 Plymouth Road Runner Lite.
I was shocked to see it rated at only 230hp. Then I realized that was the old gross horsepower rating. The net like they use today was only 155. Wow, my 6cyl. van has 40 more than that. I guess i remember it having guts because it was rated at 340 torque.

You can never go home again.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

bwia said:

Ford to Look Beyond Credit Scores in Sales Push

We’ve all seen rodeo before, what can possibly go wrong?

According to the Wall Street Journal, “Ford Motor Credit has decided to change its approval process to look beyond credit scores in an effort to pump up sales. The move by Ford Motor Co.'s financing unit, announced Friday, is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry.

Ford Motor Credit says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford's credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.”

Oh, what a smart way to move cars! Lower the credit requirements! That'll do it!

I hope they have a bunch of Repo Guys on speed dial!

Don't most of these cars have some sort of GPS like Onstar? Should be easy to find. Wouldn't suprise me if they can cut the ignition too like those buy here pay here stores.

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mjAg1Zn13xE

imidazol97

We should have heard from Brother Mike by now. I checked I95 traffic on Google maps around 5 pm EDT and the only red area was Palm Beach area and I assumed he would have been north of that by now. There was a slow, red, area by Daytona where another highway fed onto I95.

Hope he's made it okay and isn't in the hospital with something more from the doctor visit.

stickguy

I was looking earlier too, and it seemed more like normal summer rush stuff

ab348

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
You can option up a Fusion SE with the Lux pkg, Tech pgk, and Mach wheels and get pretty close to a Titanium model and save some money. AWD and the 2.0 are available with the SE also.
My daughter has that car, plus she added Nav.
Not sure if the same combinations are available in Canada.

From a stop, Ford's AWD system defaults to AWD then goes to FWD if no slippage is detected.

Yes, virtually all of the 2017 Fusions I saw on used lots were SE models optioned up with the packages you mentioned. The Titaniums were much harder to find. The seats weren't the same as those in the Titanium model, don't appear to have the cooling function, and didn't look as nice to me (the Titanium level seats were lovely to sit on). The center stack screen was perhaps a tiny bit smaller and did not have the Sony logo. But the equipment level is otherwise very similar and I suspect it drives identically. On the used market here there is about $1000 difference in price between the two models.

fintail

At least it sounded good with the right exhaust, looked fantastic, and was affordable

With where things might be going, we can maybe quote Carly Simon and say "these are the good old days".

oldfarmer50 said:

I guess we all remember the good old days as better than they probably were. Just on a whim I checked out thehp ratings on the 318 in my old 69 Plymouth Road Runner Lite.
I was shocked to see it rated at only 230hp. Then I realized that was the old gross horsepower rating. The net like they use today was only 155. Wow, my 6cyl. van has 40 more than that. I guess i remember it having guts because it was rated at 340 torque.

You can never go home again.

driver100

stickguy said:

well, the 2 kids (26 and 21, so I guess both millenials? I can never keep that stuff straight) are both extremely interested in looking at, test driving, and using cars. So from my sampling, the younger generation is just as car crazy as previous ones!

Your two children are exceptions. Younger people don't have the income, or interest to really want cars. When they do buy, they just look for basic transportation. They like living in the cities where there is public transport and free bicycles.

stickguy

I think that is a smaller subset, and what the media promotes. Especially in large swathes of the country. Media tends to be big city centric anyway.

I will concede that there are some number that don't make enough money for something nicer, but not all of them don't inspire to it! And many don't want to live in Brooklyn either.

driver100

fintail said:

Much easier to repo a car than a house, and more profit in re-selling them. I am scared of it in terms of a picture of the socio-economic spectrum in general than I am about it signaling another recession.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Subprime auto loans now sit at 32.5% of total loans, according to Bloomberg. "Subprime" is defined as people with credit scores of 550 and under, down to around 300.

Those numbers are a bit scary.

I have a friend who is very astute about financial matters. They said 47% of Canadians are living from pay check to pay check (actually, in Canada it is a pay cheque), and if they lost their income they could only keep their head above water for one week. And consumer debt is at the highest rate ever at $22000 (not counting a mortgage).

It is probably similar in the U.S. He thinks these are very bad signs for the economy and could mean a recession is looming. I am not completely sold on how serious it is, but, it isn't encouraging.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

http://www.fort-lauderdale-marine-directory.com/interstate-i-95-palm-beach.php

It was bumper to bumper in 6-7 places.  Just arrived here in Ponte Vedra.  Trip usually takes me 4-1/2 hours - it took 7 hours.  Ugh!  I'm exhausted

driver100

stickguy said:

I think that is a smaller subset, and what the media promotes. Especially in large swathes of the country. Media tends to be big city centric anyway.

I will concede that there are some number that don't make enough money for something nicer, but not all of them don't inspire to it! And many don't want to live in Brooklyn either.

From my observation, I see people who are in upper management who have good incomes, then there are the service/retail jobs at the bottom of the scale. Not as many of those mid income jobs like blue collar management, good factory jobs, sales jobs, etc. The mid-range jobs are disappearing....and I have heard personal stories and read about it. Instead of a good factory job with a high hourly rate, benefits and a pension people are becoming Uber drivers.

explorerx4

Hey Mike,
Glad you made it. Better safe than sorry. Now you can relax a bit.

sda

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

http://www.fort-lauderdale-marine-directory.com/interstate-i-95-palm-beach.php

It was bumper to bumper in 6-7 places.  Just arrived here in Ponte Vedra.  Trip usually takes me 4-1/2 hours - it took 7 hours.  Ugh!  I'm exhausted

Glad you arrived safe. With the projected path of Irma possibly impacting the Charlotte area, memories of Hugo have people already gassing and stocking up.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

If I was remaining home, I would fill up 15 plastic gallon jugs with filtered water from fridge.  I store them in the bathtub.  Biggest problem is loss of electricity and that causes loss of running water for toilets and bathing.

Am at docs office waiting for him to arrive.  Car is packed and ready to go.  Just afraid of traffic heading north.

Actually running water is created by gravity. Water flows downhill and as long as there is water in the tower you will have running water. Since those towers also provide water for fire hydrants communities generally have backup generates to run the pumps to keep the towers filled. So power outages shouldn't disrupt your running water.

Now if certain facilities get flooded, such as water filtration plants, that could interrupt filling those towers and disrupting your running water.

One thing people don't realize is that in an emergency you could always drain your hot water heater for usable water. That's if it isn't in a flooded basement. 

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

abacomike said:

If I was remaining home, I would fill up 15 plastic gallon jugs with filtered water from fridge.  I store them in the bathtub.  Biggest problem is loss of electricity and that causes loss of running water for toilets and bathing.

Am at docs office waiting for him to arrive.  Car is packed and ready to go.  Just afraid of traffic heading north.

Actually running water is created by gravity. Water flows downhill and as long as there is water in the tower you will have running water. Since those towers also provide water for fire hydrants communities generally have backup generates to run the pumps to keep the towers filled. So power outages shouldn't disrupt your running water.

Now if certain facilities get flooded, such as water filtration plants, that could interrupt filling those towers and disrupting your running water.

One thing people don't realize is that in an emergency you could always drain your hot water heater for usable water. That's if it isn't in a flooded basement. 

We don't have water towers.  Our building has 2 electric pumps and the city pumps the water through the water mains.  No electricity - no running water once the emergency back-up batteries become drained.  We were without running water for 3-1/2 days after Wilma hit us.  That is why I left town.

snakeweasel

isellhondas said:

Oh, what a smart way to move cars! Lower the credit requirements! That'll do it! I hope they have a bunch of Repo Guys on speed dial!

I don't think it is as much lowering credit requirements as much as it is redefining them to be more realistic to current realities. FICO scores don't always show the whole story. 

abacomike

sda said:

imidazol97 said:

http://www.fort-lauderdale-marine-directory.com/interstate-i-95-palm-beach.php

It was bumper to bumper in 6-7 places.  Just arrived here in Ponte Vedra.  Trip usually takes me 4-1/2 hours - it took 7 hours.  Ugh!  I'm exhausted

Glad you arrived safe. With the projected path of Irma possibly impacting the Charlotte area, memories of Hugo have people already gassing and stocking up.

Many gas stations near where I live are out of gasoline.  When I arrived here in Ponte Vedra, I filled up at the Shell station near my brother's place.  At 9:00 PM, all 24 pumps were busy, but they had plenty of gas.

Sandman6472

The madness continues down here. I live maybe 5 miles northwest of Mike and it's sheer crazy here. I was all set to go to Atlanta but the wife refused to go. So, now we hunker down and wait and see where she goes. Hopefully, she'll move north and east so we don't get all the crap from the "dirty side". Yes, living in the Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano Beach area since 1969 has taught us all some of the weather lingo. All depends on how the high pressure and low pressure area affect Irma. The t v makes folks go into a frenzy unfortunately which is so wrong. There must be a way to warn without causing the hysteria we have now. Both our vehicles have 3/4's of petrol so if we just stay home the next few days, we should be fine. After Wilma, gas stations and super markets were required to install generators so life would get back to normal sooner than later. Now, we might see just who complied and who didn't!
Yes, pray for us and don't forget South Florida once this Irma passes us by. In 2005, with Katrina, Wilma was largely forgotten by all and we had much damage and destruction plus long power outages. I know I was a bit traumatized by the whole situation and past of me says to flee, now! But the wife refuses to go so am stuck! Not a happy camper right now. Luckily, most things are shutting down early tomorrow afternoon to wait and see. I pray to G-d that it moves northeast and only drops some rain. Keep us in your prayers!!

suydam

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

http://www.fort-lauderdale-marine-directory.com/interstate-i-95-palm-beach.php

It was bumper to bumper in 6-7 places.  Just arrived here in Ponte Vedra.  Trip usually takes me 4-1/2 hours - it took 7 hours.  Ugh!  I'm exhausted

Must have been awful after getting staples out. Rest up!

suydam

stickguy said:

I think that is a smaller subset, and what the media promotes. Especially in large swathes of the country. Media tends to be big city centric anyway.

I will concede that there are some number that don't make enough money for something nicer, but not all of them don't inspire to it! And many don't want to live in Brooklyn either.

However, per capita, way less people live in large swaths of the country, and more of them are concentrated in cities even in the Midwestern states. And Brooklyn is hardly the only city in the USA!

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I think that is a smaller subset, and what the media promotes. Especially in large swathes of the country. Media tends to be big city centric anyway.

I will concede that there are some number that don't make enough money for something nicer, but not all of them don't inspire to it! And many don't want to live in Brooklyn either.

You have to consider that many young people buy used instead of new. I can count on one hand the number of new cars I have purchased. Even when I could afford new I bought used. A young person might be able to afford a used version of an otherwise unobtainable cool car.

Speaking of cool, I was following a Jeep Cherokee today and noticed a SRT badge on it. Looked it up and it has something like 475hp.

Now how is that kind of power a good idea in a high profile vehicle? Can ESC really keep a beast like that from rolling over during aggressive driving? You know that with that many horses you'd be driving aggressively.

suydam

Most of my adult life generally we have been a 2 car family -- 1 car was new and one used. It wasn't until 2015 actually that both cars were bought new!

fintail

I think some of it was to reclassify medical debt, too.

snakeweasel said:

I don't think it is as much lowering credit requirements as much as it is redefining them to be more realistic to current realities. FICO scores don't always show the whole story. 

fintail

Glad you got out. That's an area of Florida I kind of like, the coast between roughly Jacksonville and Daytona. Pretty mellow, at least when I have visited.

Stay safe, sandman - I am sure you have plans and have taken some action.

abacomike said:

Many gas stations near where I live are out of gasoline.  When I arrived here in Ponte Vedra, I filled up at the Shell station near my brother's place.  At 9:00 PM, all 24 pumps were busy, but they had plenty of gas.

fintail

I think that's the new reality. Probably identical in the states. I think it has been that way for several years now, and this new miracle economy is riding on it. Economic conditions are maybe now more regional than ever. You'd never know there were hard times by looking at some areas (most of the west coast), and never know there was a boom by looking at others (much of the old industrial belt and many southern areas).

Unless people make some kind of move, I don't know if it is going to significantly change anytime in the near future.

driver100 said:

I have a friend who is very astute about financial matters. They said 47% of Canadians are living from pay check to pay check (actually, in Canada it is a pay cheque), and if they lost their income they could only keep their head above water for one week. And consumer debt is at the highest rate ever at $22000 (not counting a mortgage).

It is probably similar in the U.S. He thinks these are very bad signs for the economy and could mean a recession is looming. I am not completely sold on how serious it is, but, it isn't encouraging.

ab348

sandman_6472 said:

The t v makes folks go into a frenzy unfortunately which is so wrong. There must be a way to warn without causing the hysteria we have now. Both our vehicles have 3/4's of petrol so if we just stay home the next few days, we should be fine.

I call it "Weather as Entertainment". People like to be scared and watch the suffering of others. The way media now report on weather has gone far past providing useful information and has entered the entertainment realm. I put it in much the same category as horror/mayhem movies. I never got the appeal.

ab348

driver100 said:

From my observation, I see people who are in upper management who have good incomes, then there are the service/retail jobs at the bottom of the scale. Not as many of those mid income jobs like blue collar management, good factory jobs, sales jobs, etc. The mid-range jobs are disappearing....and I have heard personal stories and read about it. Instead of a good factory job with a high hourly rate, benefits and a pension people are becoming Uber drivers.

It all depends on what skill set one has. The other day I was struck by something I really hadn't noticed before. I was on the used lot of the local Porsche/Jag/Land Rover dealer on Sunday and there a lot of people doing what I was doing, i.e. browsing while they were closed. They were all much younger than me, appearing to be no older than early 30s and in some cases even younger. The cars they drove there in were things like an Audi S5, a M-B AMG, and a Cayenne. Either they were living on daddy's money or (more likely I suspect) worked in the tech sector here, where if you are near the top you can rake in big bucks for a period of time before you either go bust or make even bigger money when you get bought up. I remember seeing the same thing around here just prior to the tech bubble bursting in 2000 or so. Kids just a few years out of university were made instant millionaires by running little tech outfits for 2-3 years that got bought up by the big guys. It is a very different world out there.

BTW, two of the vehicles drawing a lot of attention were these:

http://www.steeleauto.com/used/porsche/2017-porsche-911-carrera-4-23474

http://www.steeleauto.com/used/porsche/2017-porsche-911-carrera-2-27914

The red one was really eye-catching. I liked it better than the Grabber Blue one.

venture

Subaru came in.

The Legacy 3.6R Limited I ordered a few weeks ago came in yesterday; about 2 weeks before I was expecting it.

It has almost all the nannies, but you can turn them off. One thing that works pretty well is the adaptive LED headlights. It has some things my Fusion didn't have, but the Fusion has some things this car either doesn't have or doesn't work as well. It is a little taller than the Fusion, but the seats are a little lower.

Driver - you would like the big windows and visibility.

As I mentioned, I would have probably kept the Fusion for a while if both the local dealers were just OK.

I don't know how long I am going to keep it, but there's not much out there under $40k with AWD which was also my set limit as per GG.

I'm still learning.

sda

ab348 said:

explorerx4 said:

@ab348,
You can option up a Fusion SE with the Lux pkg, Tech pgk, and Mach wheels and get pretty close to a Titanium model and save some money. AWD and the 2.0 are available with the SE also.
My daughter has that car, plus she added Nav.
Not sure if the same combinations are available in Canada.

From a stop, Ford's AWD system defaults to AWD then goes to FWD if no slippage is detected.

Yes, virtually all of the 2017 Fusions I saw on used lots were SE models optioned up with the packages you mentioned. The Titaniums were much harder to find. The seats weren't the same as those in the Titanium model, don't appear to have the cooling function, and didn't look as nice to me (the Titanium level seats were lovely to sit on). The center stack screen was perhaps a tiny bit smaller and did not have the Sony logo. But the equipment level is otherwise very similar and I suspect it drives identically. On the used market here there is about $1000 difference in price between the two models.

I like the Fusion, especially in the Titanium, or Platinum version. I also like the MKZ but I am not convinced that the premium over the Fusion is worth it. A one or two year old certified Fusion can be had at a very attractive price. I saw a'17 for $20 k and a '16 for 17k. Both were Titanium with sunroof, and under 30k mi and were certified at a Ford dealer. With needing to get a car for my daughter ( thinking my Accord) and college coming up in 3 years, buying a used Titanium may be what I do.

driver100

Mike; Glad you made it and did it before things get worse.
Sandman; Good luck, I can't imagine what it is like to be in a 3, 4 or 5 hurricane. I understand your wife's reluctance to leave, but I would get out of Dodge if it was me.

Ab, agree, the news/weather channels hype this up and milk it for all it is worth. Even discounting that, this is one big monster hurricane.............500 miles across, not to be taken lightly!